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sinfan

shoddy work or am I too picky??

sinfan
3 years ago

Yesterday, my porcelain floor went in for my new kitchen. Attaching a picture of entrance way to backyard.

First: obviously the chipping,
Second: the wide grout line
Third: The entry door makes a loud rubbing noise when the door swings open and shut. I am worried about long term effect of the rubbing.
Fourth: the corners of the tile where they meet on the floor feel slightly uneven.

My cabinets are being installed today. I feel the chipped tile should be replaced. Not sure what if anything can or should be done about the wide grout line. That’s the only place where it is that wide. What can be done or should be done about the rubbing noise with the door?
I need advice. I know my contractor when I call him this morning is going to say “don’t worry about it”. His typical response to me every time I bring up a concern. I don’t feel I am being too picky. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Comments (32)

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    3 years ago

    Picture is too close to make any sense.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    This is door to backyard. Issue is when back door is open. Last picture is outside looking in.

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  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Hey Joseph. Was wondering if you had any suggestions. My contractor never responded to my em with pictures. The grout by the door is already cracking. I know he was out East fishing today so I am trying to be patient with him.

  • eam44
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    To make you happy, he has to cut out two pieces of tile, dig out the mortar underneath them, cut the tile properly (not a straight line, but stepped out at the doorway) and replace them.

    OR, he can do the lazy nonsense and remove the grout and put a thin strip of tile there.

    Either would be better than this, but ask him to do it the right way. No, you are not being too picky.

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    Grout should not be used at a change of plane (going from horizontal surface to vertical surface. Even though it LOOKS like the threshold is level it is considered a vertical surface (ie. change of plane). The appropriate caulking should be used at a change of plane like this.


    As for the door, your door has environmental 'sweeps' on them. The front and back have little black strips that are used to 'seal' the entrance when the door is closed. These sweeps are normal. but the amount of 'level' the tiles have compared to the threshold is odd.


    Traditionally the threshold should sit a SNICK higher than the floor. I'm having a hard time seeing the height variation.


    My question: why is the tile sitting 'so high'?

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    That’s a good question. We had them remove a number of floors that were previously on top of each other from the previous owner. So the bare floor was actually much lower at that point than the adjoining room. They then did a mud job. And then this floor on top. Now I’m reading on line that the floor should not have been walked on for at least 24 hours and then the grout goes on. Not only were they walking on it the very next day (yesterday) but they installed the base cabinets.
    What is the appropriate caulking they should have used?
    Also, sorry but I don’t know what it means when you say the level the tiles have compared to the threshold is odd. Meaning too high?? Still no word from my contractor and I don’t know how I should have this rectified.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    This is the mud job they did after removing the floors. The mud floor is actually level. The adjoining floor is not. You can see, it is now already high.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I don’t even have room now to put a small rug in front of my door which I am also not happy about.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I’m truly so stressed. Before the floors went in, I sent the contractor the picture below asking if there is a possible issue with the placement of the vent compared to where it appeared the hood would be for the stove. His response in an email was “don’t worry about it”. Well now the base cabinets are in place, and it appears there is certainly as issue. The cabinet installers saw I was upset and advised me to wait until the upper cabinets are installed and then we can explore our options. According to our layout, the vent was not suppose to go thru the ceiling because that’s where the bathroom is and we didn’t think there was room. The vent was to go behind the matching molding in the below picture from the kitchen designer. Now I found out yesterday, that if we use the molding the cabinet company delivered to us, there would be two seams in the top molding because it only comes in 8 feet lengths. So now we are exploring not using the molding across the length of the room and just having the chimney hood straight up to the ceiling. But we will have to move the position of the vent directly over the stove.
    Just so stressed. The contractor had a good rating with the bbb and the cabinets are medallion Gold. I wish the designer where we purchased the cabinets would have told us about the two seams needed in the top molding.

  • millworkman
    3 years ago

    As SJ mentioned the floor is too high. There is typically a height variance from the threshold to the floor. This appears to be flat, too flat. A good quality 100% silicone caulk (GE II) would be my go to caulk. As mentioned above the second tile should have been cut and then the last cut to fit into the door opening and the threshold buts up to it, albeit a little higher than so your sweep is touching not dragging.. And no it should be chipped at installation. If it gets chips you want to be the one to chip it and not immediately.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thank you both for responding. I guess there is nothing that can be done now about the height. Do I make him redo the two tiles or will that cause a bigger issue?

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    What about making him raise the door? Or at this point, I’m stuck with the high floors?

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    Rehanging exterior doors is a nasty business. You mention this is a 'new' home. Do you mean a new BUILD or do you mean a 'new to you' home?

  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    3 years ago

    Regarding the crown lengths, all mouldings from stock lines come eight foot, it isn't practical to ship longer lengths. Every kitchen has joints in the mouldings, the same way you have joints cabinet to cabinet. If correctly installed they will disappear, especially up by the ceiling.



  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Consider that without leveling work, you'd have instead been here asking why your floor has lippage, and commenters would be telling you it should have been leveled. To rectify the door issue, the door should be trimmed if possible and the threshold raised.

    For the grout edge, new tiles should be cut and installed with a very small joint that would be filled with sanded caulk, assuming there's a color that matches your grout.

  • millworkman
    3 years ago

    Johnson Flooring Co Inc I would agree except that is a steel or at the very least a fiberglass door.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    SJ McCarthy- to answer your question, this is a kitchen renovation. Not a new home to us. Been waiting years to get this done but with four kids and college etc kept having to put it off for one reason or another.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    HALLET & CO - the two guys installing the cabinets were cautioning us about the seams that would result in them using the molding. Kept saying they “would do their best but..... “. Perhaps they are concerned because the KD has 3 moldings on top of one another as you can see from picture I previously posted. They seemed to be trying to talk me out of using the molding on that one wall.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Johnson Flooring Co Inc. - Don’t think the door can be cut. Plus we also purchased a storm door that hasn’t been installed yet.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    UPDATE - contractor is suppose to stop by Friday (today) to take a look. He mentioned to my husband something about covering the threshold area with rubber (?) and “don’t worry, the chipped tile and the wide grout line will be covered”. No idea what he is talking about and unfortunately I have work today and won’t be here to talk with him in person.
    Still have hood venting issue. Don’t know why they did not follow the KD’s plan. Vent for hood was to be BEHIND the molding as shown in previous picture posted. We were pretty sure the hood could not vent into the ceiling out of the house because of the upstairs bathroom. But that’s where they put it and unfortunately it doesn’t line up with the stove. So they made another hole today in ceiling that would line up with stove and confirmed what we already knew. The bathroom drain is there. So now the contractor wants to cut a notch around the drain or something like that. My husband is worried about them accidentally cutting the drain. Honestly, not sure why they are not or do not want to follow the plan and design that the cabinet company did for us. So stressed, 4am and I’m up worried about all this.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Two holes now in ceiling. See my previous post.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Totally agree. We hired a local home improvement company that’s been in business over 30 years. The owner of the company is the GC. He is responsible for all the work outside of the electric. We’ve hardly seen him since the job began. The only reason my husband got to speak with him yesterday is because he heard him on the phone with the cabinet guy and insisted. Otherwise, we would still be waiting on a call back from him after several attempts in contacting him about the door issue. He is suppose to stop by today. Hopefully he does.

  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    3 years ago

    I'm surprised at cabinet installers balking at seams- that is basic cabinetry installation (well it's a couple steps above slinging boxes, but still). Sharp blade, touch up the joints with stain pen prior to assembly, glue the joint, hit with wax stick.


    Will someone smarter then me chime in- I thought you weren't allowed to use flex duct for venting a hood, it all had to be rigid?


    Are there permits and inspections on this job? Where does the vent exit the house? Regarding the plans from the KD, your KD can't really plan a exhaust path because he/ she doesn't know what obstructions there are. If this is on an outside wall the easiest way to vent is straight back. Otherwise, who knows?


    the wide rubber something to cover the gap sounds like a total kludge, plus as noted it simply won't work as it will rub on the door.

    sinfan thanked HALLETT & Co.
  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    The wall behind where the vent will be has a room on the other side. The duct work is exiting the house on the wall to the right (same wall as outside entry door). Contractor came today. He will be removing the wide grout and replacing it with colored silicone as someone previously suggested on this site. There is really nothing else he said he could do. Can't cut the door or raise it. He also stated that if Tile were to go where the wide grout currently is, the tile would also end up cracking.

  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    3 years ago

    Bull pucky. He doesn't want to remove the tile and install with a more accurate cut.


    Regarding the ducting, there appears to be enough room above the cabinets for 6" rigid duct to fit and exit to the right. Wouldn't that be easier? It would be hidden by the crown (I suspect that this is what your KD meant all along!)

    sinfan thanked HALLETT & Co.
  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    This is a kitchen renovation. What was the flooring BEFORE there was tile? Was it removed? Did anyone discuss the possibility of the floor being TOO HIGH for the door jams?


    Traditionally tile will sit, after installation, 3/4" HIGHER than the subfloor. Did ANYONE look at the doors to see if tile was a good idea?

    sinfan thanked SJ McCarthy
  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Yes. I believe that is exactly what the KD meant because we were pretty certain the upstairs bathroom drain was directly above the kitchen wall. Contractor stated this morning that he did not do that because the duct work we need requires 8 inch and the drain pipe is in the way. We have a blue star and my husband (who does most of the cooking) wanted a fancy hood. We measured above the cabinets this morning and there is almost 7 inches.

  • sinfan
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    SJ McCarthy - The contractor came to our house and saw our kitchen. Neither the floor or the back door was discussed other than us stating we wanted new door, and new floor to be mudded because the floor needed leveling. We also stated we were pretty sure we would be getting porcelain wood plank floors. The flooring before the reno was high. I could not fit a small rug under it and the previous door actually made marks on the vinyl floor that was there. However we were pleasantly surprised that there were 4 or 5 floors that they had to remove. (who knew there were that many?) Therefore, the floor in the kitchen before mud job was now quite a bit LOWER than the adjoining dining room and the back entry door. Our kitchen was completely gutted. I told contractor this morning that if entry door needed to be raised, we should have raised it. Or they should have used less mud to not raise floor so high. To which he responded the new floor needed to rest on top of 2 inches of mud. His cabinet guys were there chiming in as well that the mud job was done correctly and had to be that thick. I know I am now going to have another issue relating to the difference in floor heights from the DR and the kitchen. We now have to step up to the kitchen from the DR which we did not have to do before. When asked this morning, what he is going to do there, he stated that he was going to look around for a 6 foot wood saddle. This whole process is just a big headache.

  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    3 years ago

    You are correct, an 8" round duct won't fit in a 7" space, but a 6x10 square sure as skippy would. or a 4x12. Run a 4x12 duct horizontally across top of cabinet boxes and penetrate the exterior wall as a rectangle. The hood will tap in to the bottom of the rectangular duct as a circle. It is done all the time. The HVAC contractor that is handling the ducting will have no problem. (that was sarcasm, I'm sure the contractor is using 'his guys')

  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc
    3 years ago

    An alternative to cutting the door, which I suspect would be quite a challenge, would be to remove the sweep from the bottom of the door and add some sort of threshold or weather stripping over the existing threshold. It would likely be wide enough to cover the grout and edge of tile. Regardless of what others here say, I think that would be a great idea and an elegant solution IF a suitable looking piece can be found. Another alternative would be to find something standard like your existing threshold, but slightly thicker. Thresholds often have integrated weather stripping that seals to a flat bottomed door, so there's ample precedent for this practice.

    To reiterate about leveling, when plank/tile is installed over an unlevel subfloor there's a high chance that there will be issues with tile lippage and hollow spots. This issue could likely have been conveyed to you better but in the end it had to be done and you'd have to address the door height. Unless it was a new door, one does not simply "raise the door". You have what appears to be a prehung door with integral threshold so raising the door entails removing it, potentially reframing around it, reinstalling with something added under the assembly, and running new trim around the inside and outside (all at your expense of course).

  • SJ McCarthy
    3 years ago

    A 2" mud setting is quite a bit for tiles. Of course it can be done, but that's not the point. The flooring stuff sounds like it was done by a bunch of 'guys' who did not 'think it through' or more to the point the GC failed to offer direction as to how it was supposed to work.


    You now have a NEW step UP into the kitchen which was not there before. Hmmmm. That's interesting. How much is the NEW step-up?


    Are you 100% sure all the old floors came out? And was a CERTIFIED TILE SETTER used to install this tile floor?


    And don't listen to cabinet installers. They are there to install cabinetry...not for flooring installation. A certified tile setter is EXPENSIVE and the GC knows it. That's why s/he cheaped out and used some guys (who happen to know how to set 2" mud).


    A properly trained tile setter would have 'caught' the floor height difference between the kitchen and dining room AND would have caught the issues with door clearance.


    I'm going to guess the GC told the 'floor dudes' to get the floor up to the OLD height...which as you mention was TOO HIGH FOR THE DOOR in the FIRST PLACE.


    The GC is ULTIMATELY responsible for the work done in your home. If you are concerned about the tile install, the door clearance AND the BRAND NEW floor height variance between kitchen/dining, you BETTER get talking! I'm not kidding. This is an ASAP issue.


    Once the floor is done/complete, the job is going to be VERY close to completion. You do NOT want to install cabinets over top of a floor that needs to be ripped out.


    You have enough flooring/door/height issues to call an emergency meeting with the GC. How much have you paid for...to date?