Colleges Rescinding Admissions as Racist Social Media Posts Emerge

dublinbay z6 (KS)

Hmm--the consequences of indulging in racist talk!

-------------------------

"A star high school athlete recruited to play football for Cornell University will no longer be attending the school after a Snapchat video of him using a racial slur went viral.

Marquette University revoked an incoming freshman’s admission offer because of a Snapchat post mocking the death of George Floyd.

And an honors student bound for the University of Florida now has to make other college plans after the university learned of an Instagram post in which the student declared she was “most definitely” a racist.

Amid a national accounting over entrenched and systemic racism after Floyd’s death in police custody on Memorial Day, at least a dozen schools have rescinded admissions offers to incoming students over instances of racism that circulated widely online, often after outraged students and university alumni demanded swift action.

[. . .]

While private schools are not bound by the First Amendment and its protection of speech, public universities, as government institutions, must contend with the potential legal consequences of penalizing students for racist or sexist language, said Clay Calvert, the director of the Marion B. Brechner First Amendment Project at the University of Florida.

But the First Amendment does not guarantee the right to be admitted to a state university with an admissions process that considers “the whole person,” beyond just grades and test scores, Calvert said."

https://news.yahoo.com/colleges-rescinding-admissions-offers-racist-185530110.html

------------------

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I really don't want a bunch of out-spoken racists and white supremacist types running around campuses proselytizing for their hateful causes, but, on the other hand, I don't quite like the idea that students must pass some kind of proper "character" test before they are allowed to enter the ivory towers and learn. Like, who decides what is proper character?

Kate

SaveComment102Like
Comments (102)
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Lulu Smith

Children (and high school seniors are still not fully developed adults) are routinely stupid as their brains evolve and mature. Holding these children responsible for their online remarks is not appropriate when we forgive our elected politicians for their errors in judgement and stupidity which occurred when they were younger.

Remember this crisis in Virginia: " The crisis started when a photo of Governor Ralph Northam's page in his 1984 medical school yearbook depicted an individual in blackface and an individual in a Ku Klux Klan outfit. Northam had sparked a national outcry two days earlier over comments interpreted by conservatives and pro-life groups as supporting infanticide. Amid widespread calls for Northam's resignation, Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax had multiple sexual assault allegations raised against him dating to 2000 and 2004. Attorney General Mark Herring revealed shortly thereafter that he had worn blackface while in college."

Since these were all Democrats, and the next in line for governor was a Republican, all was forgiven and no resignation required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Virginia_political_crisis


4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Toby

By age 18, one knows whether they are a racist. They cannot be excused as "children".

There is no proof that that's Northam in that photo.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

I think maybe telling them they need one more year at least to have what it takes to be ready for admittance - and offer a deferred provisional acceptance would be better. And maybe offer time with a guidance counselor to help them figure out what it takes.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Lulu Smith

I thought by now we had all witnessed the stupidity of the young at numerous spring breaks. Whether it's the wet t-shirt contests, or the binge drinking, these are not developed brains. I would be ashamed to be judged by my high school self.

And yes, we have all cautioned our children: Say it forget; write it regret it. Assume anything you post will haunt you forever.

Regarding the forgetful governor: "Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam confirmed Friday evening his appearance in a picture that features a person in blackface and another wearing a Ku Klux Klan hood in a 1984 medical school yearbook page that also has different pictures of the future governor."

https://wtop.com/virginia/2019/02/virginia-governors-1984-yearbook-page-shows-racist-imagery/

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Toby

Northam came out soon after his apology and said he has no recollection of ever dressing in blackface so he can't confirm that the photo is of him.

One would remember if they dressed in blackface. I imagine any black substance is very hard to remove and just that would be memorable.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Lulu Smith

"Northam came out soon after his apology and said he has no recollection of ever dressing in blackface so he can't confirm that the photo is of him.

One would remember if they dressed in blackface. I imagine any black substance is very hard to remove and just that would be memorable."

So - was he lying when he apologized or when he rescinded his apology after his manager said they couldn't prove he was in the picture?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Lulu I wholeheartedly agreed with your first comment until you dragged Democratic/Republican politics into via Northam’s successor.

These are kids. They might certainly believe they know now what their positions on race relations or any other issue are but they will certainly change their perspective, possibly dozens of times, before they grow old and education is a major component of that.

Revoking scholarships, I have no problem with. Much of that money is privately donated and the students who receive it should be exemplary in all ways, in my opinion. But refusing admission is tantamount to saying these children are incapable of learning and growing and it doesn’t sit well with me.

9 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I agreed with Lulu’s first comment wholeheartedly, except the part about Northam’s successor which seems irrelevant and frankly unfounded.

These are children. They might think their ideas and opinions are set in stone, but they will change dozens of times. A major catalyst of that change is education.

Sure, revoke their scholarships. That money should go to students who are exemplary in every way.

To deny them the privilege of an education is tantamount to saying 17-18 year olds are hopeless and unable to better themselves and that doesn’t sit well with me at all.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cecily 7A

Northam's med school yearbook dates from 1984. Today is 2020. You don't think America has changed in forty years?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Having trouble posting. Re-writing comments, trying to edit or delete them. Sorry if you’re seeing me repeat myself.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
HamiltonGardener

I’m just shocked at how much kids put online.


That includes taking videos of themselves and their friends beating people up, raping girls, stealing cars, racing... then putting the videos on social media.


The cops have all the evidence they need.....

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I really don't want a bunch of out-spoken racists and white supremacist types running around campuses proselytizing for their hateful causes, but, on the other hand, I don't quite like the idea that students must pass some kind of proper "character" test before they are allowed to enter the ivory towers and learn.

These schools are very competitive and so they have the absolute right to decide who they want attending. People who feel free to flaunt their racism are just not welcome - there are other worthy students who can take their place.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Holding these children responsible for their online remarks is not appropriate when we forgive our elected politicians for their errors in judgement and stupidity which occurred when they were younger.

^^^ And some elected politicans get away with stupid online remarks as adults, case in point - trump today, trump yesterday, trump every freaking day.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Lets get back to the OP. Should universities and Colleges judge the whole person when they admit a student to their campus? I don't see why not since they can take into consideration as to whether or not you play Lacrosse. Most of the prestigious places access all sorts of things about you. You are admitting them the privilege of judging you simply by applying. Some Universities might consider racial prejudice a plus. Go there.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

At 18, you're considered to be adult enough to fight a war. You should be adult enough to have outgrown the use of racist slurs.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dublinbay z6 (KS)

". . . we forgive our elected politicians for their errors in judgement and stupidity which occurred when they were younger."

I take it then, Lulu, that you also "forgive" the youthful blackface follies of Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam and Attorney Gen. Mark Herring. That's a generous and understanding gesture on your part--especially considering they are your political opponents. I'm impressed.

Kate

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Lulu Smith

It's not my place to forgive. I attribute many things to unformed youthful brains and would not take childish pranks as being representative of a mature person's thoughts.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)


jmm1837

4 minutes ago

At 18, you're considered to be adult enough to fight a war. You should be adult enough to have outgrown the use of racist slurs.

———

Yet you’re not past the age of youthful mistakes. There is no magical occurrence for anyone on their 18th bday, that they become suddenly wise and infallible.

Voting and enlisting at 18 is arbitrary, as is driving at 15 and drinking at 21. Brain studies show development to be complete by around age 25.

Criminal acts are one thing, but making stupid social media posts/comments is a youthful mistake that can be corrected through age, experience, and EDUCATION. Half of what these kids are posting online isn’t what they really believe anyway, and most of it will change over the course of their lives. Speaking only for myself, I don’t see a lot of what I strongly believed when I was a teen in my value set now.

(also many people graduate at 17 and may have made these comments years before so would this argument mean their objectionable posts don’t count?)

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Toby

Lulu, you can look up Northam's explanation in the same way you found his original apology.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“ I don't quite like the idea that students must pass some kind of proper "character" test before they are allowed to enter the ivory towers and learn. Like, who decides what is proper character?”

After reading some arguments For and Against are you still feeling torn, Kate?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Toby

By age 18, they know better than to use the n word or mock a dead person or declare themselves to be a racist. They should know that by age ten. Apparently these particular "children" are not mature enough for college.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Lulu Smith

"you can look up Northam's explanation in the same way you found his original apology."

And why would I want to? I don't really care what they did. What a college age or teen age person with a not fully developed brain does or doesn't do is not important. You haven't really been reading my posts.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Toby

You would want to so you understand the whole story instead of half of the story.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

"Criminal acts are one thing, but making stupid social media
posts/comments is a youthful mistake that can be corrected through age,
experience, and EDUCATION."

No one is denying these kids an education. They're just not going to get it at Cornell. Let them mix with the hoi polloi at a state college, and maybe come face to face with reality.


In any case, they say that experience is the best teacher. Losing a place at their preferred university will teach them two things: casual racism isn't going to cut it in the modern era, and, most important, actions have consequences. I think those two lessons will ultimately be a whole lot more valuable for some of these kids than understanding the structure of a sonnet.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Well as my kids use it “most definitely” is almost always sarcastic when they are describing themselves. Often preceded by “oh yes” and followed by “that’s true.” Not being an apologist, just keeping in mind that I haven’t seen the context of the post or heard the poster’s side of the story.

We don’t know what racial slur the star football player used, but we’ve had endless debates here about whether Pocahontas is one, or Fredo; I know an adult who saw the phrase “sand monkey” written on a shop wall and thought it was a silly joke without realizing it’s an ethnic slur. There are grey areas and room for debate and education. It’s not all cut and dried like the n-word.

I agree that the kid who (allegedly) depicted George Floyd’s death was in extremely poor taste and should have known better. But again, the answer to that is education not alienation. And I think to be fair we have to leave the tiniest bit of room for doubt, in that he could have been acting out his anxiety/stress/anger in a way that is not appropriate but is understandable. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that he was as upset about that (alleged) murder as anyone else and chose gallows humour/macabre to relieve those feelings. Once again education is the key, not alienation.

(This is not different from what leaders in the BLM movement (using this term in the general sense rather than the specific organization) are saying: educate, educate, educate.)

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

As soon as word gets around you can bet students will be cleaning up their social media pages. In fact, if they are that clueless by the time they get to college to advertise racism and such——oops—-as I type this I am thinking of some very high CEOS who are clueless. Oh well, so much for that theory.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Toby

Nate Panza knew what he was saying was wrong. From the link:

The most recent student to face consequences is Nate Panza, 18, a
football recruit for Cornell University from Watchung, New Jersey, who
was recorded using a racial slur in a Snapchat video in late June. “Oh,
wait, you can’t put that one up,” he says in the recording.

And here's what he said:
https://twitter.com/somjolie_/status/1274746697114148866

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“As soon as word gets around you can bet students will be cleaning up their social media pages.”

But cleaning up the pages does nothing to clean up the “heart.” It does nothing to eliminate the problem of racism in the life of the individual, all it does is eliminate racist expression. (Eliminating racist expression does have wider positive societal impacts—I’m only focusing on the individual impact here.) The person has learned not to express particular phrases, but perhaps not been given any opportunity to understand why they are harmful and been offered the opportunity to come to a place of understanding the group they are deriding.

Does it not ultimately serve to foster resentment and defensiveness rather than a shift in perspective?

We are talking about older adolescents here. This is the time when they are learning to challenge their preconceived ideas and open their minds to new possibilities. Putting them on the defensive shuts down those opening minds very quickly.

And to take a position that one knew better when s/he was 18 so everyone should is to forget that not everyone has the benefit of a family or school that talks of such matters. Some are raised to believe that they are justified in expressing hate toward others for various reasons. Some are sternly commanded “you must not do such a thing” and choose that thing in rebellion, perfectly normal for an adolescent. Some are trying to impress less than worthy peers.

I think there is a lot of room for grace for someone who has not experienced even one minute of post secondary education or life outside their parents’ sphere (in general).

I’m 38, not raised to be racist beyond generalized stereotyping (no hatred or white supremacy, in other words) and I like to think I try to approach everyone with an open heart and I still mess up. I’m still learning. I can’t imagine having been “cancelled” at age 18 over some of the more hard-headed things I said and believed.

ETA sorry so long, my goodness.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Yikes, I types a long answer and it disappeared.

Miss Lindsey. It’s true it doesn’t change their heart just by cleaning up their media but it does give them an opportunity to grow in a more tolerant atmosphere rather than falling back on a school that reinforces their narrow mindedness. They will also learn they cannot just go around spouting racist language on social media without consequences.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

I wonder that no one has mentioned that these kids were obviously impaired. Alcohol presumably. Drunk? or Drugged? They did not have water in those bottles I suspect. Do you want these loser kids at your prestigious University even if they are good at sports. Has no one learned this yet? They will mess up and they will create some sort of media storm and your Uni will suffer. Or cant they find any sports stars who don't drink and make racial slurs? Are sports driving an acceptance of unacceptable behavior?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“...does give them an opportunity to grow in a more tolerant atmosphere rather than falling back on a school that reinforces their narrow mindedness.”

I disagree entirely! Respectfully of course :)

All it will do is push them to schools that either don’t care about their social media presence or that can’t legally refuse them (ie state schools). Those schools may or may not reinforce narrow-mindedness.

I would think that a school that is aware enough to consider banning students over racist posts is also conscientious enough to be intentional about promoting equality and acceptance. I would hope so anyway. And if revoking their admission is just lip service that’s all the more reason to oppose the practice!

Upending plans this late in the game might have a detrimental effect on the lives of these students that is out of proportion with their misdeeds.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Do you want these loser kids at your prestigious University even if they are good at sports. Has no one learned this yet?


No they haven’t nor will they. College kids party no matter the level of prestige of the school. It isn’t restricted to athletes either.


Are sports driving an acceptance of unacceptable behavior?


Absolutely. Across the board. In my experience at least, coming from an area where hockey is god.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

patriciae_gw(07)

I wonder that no one has mentioned that these kids were obviously impaired. Alcohol presumably. Drunk? or Drugged? They did not have water in those bottles I suspect. Do you want these loser kids at your prestigious University even if they are good at sports. Has no one learned this yet? They will mess up and they will create some sort of media storm and your Uni will suffer.

Do you want these loser kids at your prestigious University...

Um. Good heavens, no! Send those "loser kids" to some loser school. No riff-raff allowed at your prestigious university! Wouldn't want your "uni" to suffer.

That's some mighty strong privilege talking there, patriciae.



2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
NOWAY2Biden

Lulu Smith

Children (and high school seniors are still not fully developed adults) are routinely stupid as their brains evolve and mature.

~~~~~~~~~

Yet, 18 is the legal age to VOTE is the US. Their brains aren't evolved and mature at 18 to vote.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Lulu Smith

"Yet, 18 is the legal age to VOTE is the US. Their brains aren't evolved and mature at 18 to vote."

Don't blame me. I would have it at age 21.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

I expect this will go a lot further in the near future and students will have to "prove" their political leanings. If not liberal, you're out despite academic abilities.

A neighbor I haven't seen for a while just walked by while I was sitting outdoors and we discussed how extremely quickly this liberal craziness has escalated to extremes no one could have imagined in a lifetime let alone in just a month's time.

Has this desire/demand/insistence on obeying the liberal party line, approved of speech, requirement to adhere - gone too far? I think so but we'll see.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
zmith

“Yet, 18 is the legal age to VOTE is the US. Their brains aren't evolved and mature at 18 to vote. “

Yet many states will treat a 16 yo as an adult for crimes committed. So, are they children, too immature to vote? Or are they developed enough to stand trial as an adult?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Lulu Smith

Yes

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

Let me get this straight. Opposing blatantly racist comments is "extreme liberal craziness." So, what then, is the right wing view of racist comments and indeed of racism?

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

"Let me get this straight."

If it's my comment you are referring to, you'll have to try again in order to get it straight. Try reading more slowly next time.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
catspa_zone9sunset14

Well, then, Ann, how did your comment relate to the topic of this thread, if your weren't talking about racist comments in social media? Is academic ability all that counts in higher education? How do racist comments reflect on a potential student's character?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

Ann: let's see if I can break this down. This article is about racist comments costing students their admission to prestigious colleges. You take the premise of the article and state that you expect students in future will have to prove their liberal credentials. You then add on a line about "extreme liberal craziness."

How am I to take that other than that you believe you have to be a liberal to oppose racism?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“Has this desire/demand/insistence on obeying the liberal party line, approved of speech, requirement to adhere - gone too far? I think so but we'll see.”

Refraining from the expression of racist tropes is hardly a liberal extreme or even an exclusively liberal value, I hope.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Miss Lindsey. I can certainly understand why colleges are responding to social media pages when discerning whether to admit students. At that age it is time to learn their words and actions come with consequences.


If they are on a scholarship it is even more important they maintain a proper representation on social media. Hopefully it is a lesson learned. Colleges have the right imho to demand a certain dignity and respect for all people and explicit racism is a serious issue.


I am just stating a realistic fact when I say they will clean up their social media when word gets around they will lose out on an admission to a school of their choice because of their social media. I’m surprised it has taken this long to address this issue.




4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

My comment wasn't about racist social media posts. But, it was about college admissions and where I think we are likely headed with investigations (via scrutiny of things like social media) of an applicants political leanings. I think this will go far further than not accepting students with racist posts to not accepting "conservative" students or students whose posts have demonstrated support for "GOP" candidates, etc. I think the need to censor and control has reached the level of an epidemic. I expect we may see political discrimination in the workplace as well, if it isn't happening already.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

So, if a university objects to racist behavior they then prefer (or will soon prefer) students who are liberal. Suggests that conservative leaning institutions have little concern with racist behavior.

Odd

"If not liberal, you're out despite academic abilities."

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

"How am I to take that other than that you believe you have to be a liberal to oppose racism?"

I can't help you with you inability to read and understand a comment - or your passion to want to twist for who knows what reason. I was discussing college admissions and how I think conservative students could face obstacles with liberal control issues and censorship. You are discussing racism. You could simply quote my comments and address what I said rather than twisting, but I suspect my comments didn't give you the opening you want, so you simply choose to try to attach your narratives (which have nothing to do with my words) - to me. You failed and posters who make choices like that tend to get ignored over time. People who are interested in playing fair on HT begin to simply scroll on by.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

"Miss Lindsey. I can certainly understand why colleges are responding to social media pages when discerning whether to admit students. At that age it is time to learn their words and actions come with consequences.


If they are on a scholarship it is even more important they maintain a proper representation on social media. Hopefully it is a lesson learned. Colleges have the right imho to demand a certain dignity and respect for all people and explicit racism is a serious issue.


I am just stating a realistic fact when I say they will clean up their social media when word gets around they will lose out on an admission to a school of their choice because of their social media. I’m surprised it has taken this long to address this issue."

Now, here is a comment I think is great for discussion. Kathy, I'll agree explicit racism is an issue. Do you think that's where the censorship and rejection of students should stop? What if a student doesn't support universal healthcare, or supports the 2nd amendment, or votes for President Trump, or is pro-life, or supports the police and law and order, or believes in a strong and well funded military, or thinks a wall is a good idea along a southern border - or all of the above. Should his or her social media posts be reviewed to look for views like these and do you think any of these views should disqualify the student? When I read "discerning whether to admit students" in your comment, each of these things came to my mind because all of these may be opposed by a liberal person or committee reviewing applications. It's common knowledge how very liberal our universities are with few exceptions so this "discerning" process certainly could become discriminatory IMO and not based on academic ability or qualifications.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Ann

25 minutes ago

My comment wasn't about racist social media posts. But, it was about college admissions and where I think we are likely headed with investigations (via scrutiny of things like social media) of an applicants political leanings.

———

But this thread is about racist social media posts, and your comment did not qualify at all that you were pivoting to a new subject.

Nor did you specify your fear for the future; in fact your exact words are about “...how extremely quickly this liberal craziness has escalated to extremes no one could have imagined in a lifetime let alone in just a month's time.

Has this desire/demand/insistence on obeying the liberal party line, approved of speech, requirement to adhere - gone too far? I think so but we'll see.”

That is all past and present tense, there is no indication that you’re presenting a hypothetical future event.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

"So, if a university objects to racist behavior they then prefer (or will soon prefer) students who are liberal. Suggests that conservative leaning institutions have little concern with racist behavior."

I'll certainly agree with your assessment of your words, Ziemia - "Odd"

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Thinking that explicit racism is unacceptable in a prospective student can hardly be some barrier that any normal decent kid could not meet.

That students do get drunk and party their college years away should tell you that they are in the wrong place. It makes life impossible for the serious student, or maybe it is the serious student who expects an education who is in the wrong place? The degree is expensive. Shouldn't you want your money's worth?

As for the student, who would want this idiot for a roommate. Talk about impeding someone else's education....


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Can't help you with any of that Lindsey. I wrote many a comment about what I wanted to say and I don't particularly care about your comment about tense or hypotheticals. Feel free to scroll right on by my comments that don't appeal to you for whatever reason or go down and then come out of your own rabbit holes if you so choose.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

"The degree is expensive. Shouldn't you want your money's worth?"

Oh my, does this ever take my thought bubble to all the degrees I think are completely worthless, but still offered and cost a fortune! But that's entirely off topic (and I know that's not what you meant), so I'll leave it at that (and in my thought bubble) plus I've already discussed that topic numerous times over the years on HT.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
catspa_zone9sunset14

Racist behavior is in many cases illegal; supporting Trump, being pro-life, etc., etc., etc. are not. I don't tolerate the former in my classroom whatsoever; I tolerate all of the latter and then some because people are entitled to their opinions, though not necessarily my respect for their opinions (depends on how good their arguments are). I don't think it's something to hyperventilate and contrive conspiracies over. Seem to be plenty of Young Republicans and such at UC Berkeley -- somehow they snuck in, I guess (sarcasm).

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

I think we're seeing a classic "slippery slope" logical fallacy at play here. The reasoning seems to run along the lines that, if colleges start calling out students for overt racism, the next thing you know, conservatives will be denied an education.


I see no reason to believe that expecting students to be decent human beings will lead to anything other than a student body that is more aware of and sensitive to racial issues. That is surely exactly the sort of thing education should be about. If we really believe in eliminating racism, at both the individual and systemic levels, then where better to start than with colleges and universities? And I see no reason to believe that decent conservatives will be in any way disadvantaged by this.

7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Rina

Jmm and Catspa, I agree 100% with these last comments of yours.

It seems to me that in the US the concept of earning admittance to certain universities is well accepted. You apply to the university and invite them in fact to judge whether they think you are worthy of the privilege of attending. I can't see why looking at aspects of character should not form part of that process.

A university's status depends as much on the quality of its students as it does on the quality of its staff. And its ability to access funding and act as part of the international academic world, its very survival, long-term, depends on its status.


3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arcy_gw

Anyone who thinks college = fully adult behavior has never seen Animal House. BUT I applaud the solid line the University is drawing. It's what has to happen in order to stop racism in its tracks!!

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

I live in a college town and the kids are children. I believe Sigma Nu is the black fraternity and they are super racist. Liberals are the most racist people on the planet. Nothing else matters to them. Their music is racist. Their ideas are racist. Everything about them is racist. We don't see any of this from the right.

Sigma Nu...Let the brainwashing begin.

All of the brothers take great pride in
being a Sigma Nu. If you bet on black, Sigma Nu will give you the full
college experience. If you bet on black, Sigma Nu will help you meet new
and interesting people. If you bet on black, Sigma Nu will make you a
better man.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cait1

I think this is funny. 'University' is now about shutting down minds - no wrong think allowed. A kid isn't entering an 'ivory tower' (what kind of 'white privilege' idiom is that?!) but a Gulag where s/he'll be battered and brutalized until total conformity to SJWism aka cultural Marxism is secured.


3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Let's reverse it...

All of the people take great pride in
being a Sigma Nu. If you bet on white, Sigma Nu will give you the full
college experience. If you bet on white, Sigma Nu will help you meet new
and interesting people. If you bet on white, Sigma Nu will make you a better man.

lolololol! White people don't need that type of nonsense. We don't suffer from inferiority complexes.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

cait - if university is about shutting down minds to racism, I consider that a good thing. This is 2020, not 1720, and universities need to represent the best of what we are, not the worst of what we were.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Nonsense! It's about programming racism and learning how to spot it where it doesn't exist. These kids are damaged beyond repair.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

lolololol! White people don't need that type of nonsense. We don't suffer from inferiority complexes.

Hmmmm? It is hard to have an inferiority complex when you run a society that supports your superiority all the time.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Wow (beyond odd)

"I can't help you with you inability to read and understand a comment.."

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Agree:

"I think we're seeing a classic "slippery slope" logical fallacy at play here. The reasoning seems to run along the lines that, if colleges start calling out students for overt racism, the next thing you know, conservatives will be denied an education."

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cait1

The reasoning seems to run along the lines that, if colleges start
calling out students for overt racism, the next thing you know,
conservatives will be denied an education."

Woah!!! HAHAHA We paint with wide brushes! HAHAHAHA

And I think it's already been established that colleges/unis don't educate but are the final processing plants for indoctrination.

Thank you, Frankfurt School!

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Hmmmm? It is hard to have an inferiority complex when you run a society that supports your superiority all the time.

I'm sorry for Canada. The USA is nothing of the sort.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Toby

cait1

I think this is funny. 'University' is now about shutting down minds - no
wrong think allowed. A kid isn't entering an 'ivory tower' (what kind
of 'white privilege' idiom is that?!) but a Gulag where s/he'll be
battered and brutalized until total conformity to SJWism aka cultural
Marxism is secured.

Shutting down minds? You may continue to think however you'd like to, but with "Republicans now saying the quiet parts out loud", as dandyfop recently observed, your "open minds, open mouths" will bring repercussions from the greater society. I know some of you thought you'd enjoy the new "freedom" to be politically-incorrect, but freedom doesn't come free.

8 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
bleusblue2

patriciae_gw(07)

Thinking that explicit racism is unacceptable in a prospective student can hardly be some barrier that any normal decent kid could not meet.

~~~~

Kids grow up in households and neighbourhoods that don't necessarily encourage "normal decent" attitudes toward race and class. They may "know" that they are not supposed to be racist because they are exposed to other ideas in school or in movies and so on. But even adults today are still noticing that they haven't sloughed the racist concepts of youth. Give them a little time to grow up. And yes, in my view an 18 year old is still a kid whether eligible to go to war or vote or drink -- still a kid.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

So, have the college offer a gap year - a conditional acceptance.

I am starting to think that rescinding the offer is a lazy & self-serving solution to a potential problem.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

I've heard that the foreign students have to go home if the colleges are closed. Good deal.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cait1

@ Toby

I know some of you thought you'd enjoy the new "freedom" to be politically-incorrect...

I never subscribed to any facet of cultural Marxism, including political correctness.

If others chose to do so, that was their problem. SCOTUS has ruled that you still have the right to be offended. Why would you want that right removed?

The Supreme Court affirmed
Monday that terms or phrases deemed to be offensive are still protected
as free speech under the First Amendment. The high court unanimously
struck down a disparagement provision of federal trademark law in Matal v. Tam,
a case in which the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) denied an
Asian-American rock band a trademark for their name “The Slants” because
they found the name to be offensive
.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2017/06/19/supreme-court-unanimously-reaffirms-hate-speech-is-still-free-speech-n2343286


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dublinbay z6 (KS)

I still somewhat agree with arguments on both sides (nothing like fence-sitting--ouch!), but I would like to point out that I attended a private under-graduate college that was rather conservative but very strong in the liberal arts. (Not my choice, by the way--parents insisted. Fortunately, I was majoring in the liberal arts.) That college did exclude as many liberals as possible-- but conservatives were welcome. So let's not paint with such a broad brush when describing college admission policies.

And I'd guess that during the McCarthy years, you got more opportunities and advantages if you were conservative. Remember, liberals were black-listed!

It does depend on the political flavor of the decade, doesn't it.

That said, I somewhat share with Ann an aversion for the idea of college authorities playing "I spy" as they scroll through endless facebook pages trying to determine how "pure" each student's background is or isn't. It seems to me that college admission should be based on the student's ability to benefit from an expensive college education--"benefit" in the sense of capable of learning at a more advanced level than high school. And WANTS to learn.

Perhaps a background check to determine if the applicant has a criminal record is allowable. I wouldn't want any convicted rapists running loose on campus, for instance. But it does seem to me that it is none of the college's business what a student does off-campus and in his/her own time as long as it is legal. And the student isn't posting from a college computer.

However, I will agree with those of you who are opposed to students posting racist or other discriminatory materials online or flaunting their association with, for instance, white supremacist groups. Hate talk/hate groups/hate actions--they go over the line as far as I'm concerned--and would be considered illegal in most jurisdictions, I believe. But the problem comes back to what we have often argued about here on HT: how long ago did it occur? last year? last decade? several decades ago? when the student was a dumb teenager? etc. And how egregious is the example? a slip of the tongue on an otherwise excellent record? membership in a terrorist white supremacist group? or something in-between?

But all that gets us back to the issue of how the authorities managed to get all that information. Do the authorities play detectives and run monthly checks of FB? or sit back passively waiting for someone (with a grudge?) to turn in the offending student?

Yes, if racism or other discriminatory behavior is brought to the college's attention, something should be done about it. Other than that, I'm still not sure what position I take.

Kate

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Marigold

I've heard that the foreign students have to go home if the colleges are closed. Good deal.
I wonder about the logistics of that, though. If airlines aren't permitted to land due to Covid, those kids are between a rock and a hard place. Who ever would have thought that countries might have to arrange rescue flights to the US to repatriate their kids? Mind boggling.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Lars(Z11a (coastal L.A.) and Z9a (desert))

When I turned 18, I could not vote, but I did have to register for the draft during the Vietnam War. By the time I was 21, the voting age had been lowered to 18, mainly (I think) because people thought it was unfair to draft young men into the army while denying them the right to vote.

If you want to raise the voting age to 21, you should also require people to be 21 in order to be in the service, as their minds would not be sufficiently developed to make a choice to join the army if it is not developed enough to be able to vote.

After college, I ended up being 4F and therefore did not have to go to Vietnam, but others were not so lucky.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Let me try again. Reality....Universities have been looking into the background of prospective students for ever. The more prestigious the University the more intense the looking into is. You not only send your transcript, you also list all your clubs, hobbies, charitable organizations, sports, interests, aspirations and so forth. You often have to write an essay laying out what you hope to achieve from your school of choice or maybe you go with explaining what you think they will gain from you. You want to write something that makes them want you at their University. So why is all this the norm but suddenly looking at your facebook history so out of line?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Patriciae—-I agree, it should come as no surprise and if it did they now know the colleges mean business when it comes to racism.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

List your local Neo-Nazi affiliate as your club of choice. Will that get you into Cornell?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

Kathy, most colleges certainly mean business when it comes to indoctrination! Kate, I think you're right that there are some conservative colleges but, unfortunately, you can count the number on about 1 hand. Colleges are far from "equal opportunity" when it comes to political leanings.

I have two grandkids in high school and am well aware the current college search/choice is an interesting one for parents and students not interested in paying a fortune for indoctrination.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Ann, I really don’t know how you consider teaching student to make informed decisions with critical thinking is considered indoctrination. Indoctrination is what Trump is doing by lying and perpetuating conspiracy theories. Is a person able to know when they have been indoctrinated? Or is that why we have interventions for people rescued from cults?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

How is the expectation that you not make racist statements being indoctrinated? Can we agree that making racist statements is not a good thing?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Nana H

"Kathy, most colleges certainly mean business when it comes to indoctrination!"

Ann, can you provide specific examples of what you think is political indoctrination? Is it a fact, an opinion or are you just throwing it out there?

edited

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

And I'd guess that during the McCarthy years, you got more opportunities and advantages if you were conservative. Remember, liberals were black-listed!

It does depend on the political flavor of the decade, doesn't it.

So this is payback.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Right Elvis, payback for making racist statements. Oh gee. So mean.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
paprikash

If they are monitoring young dumb whites for inappropriate social media posts, I sure hope they are doing the same for those young dumb people of color. I’ve seen some pretty racist and very inappropriate postings from my black friends’ children and their buddies

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ann

P, I think racist statements are most definitely not a good thing - actual racist statements. What I mean by that is not something someone simply claims is racist like we see on HT so often, but actual racist statements. On HT, just being conservative politically has resulted in liberals calling posters racist. That's precisely why my comments on this thread weren't about "racist" comments but were about political leanings.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

Pap, surely they are judging applicants on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

Right?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Nana H

"On HT, just being conservative politically has resulted in liberals calling posters racist."

On HT just being liberal politically results in being called hate filled anarchists. Well this week it's anarchists, few weeks back it was socialists. Can't wait to hear what Trump and Fox tell his base to call liberals next!

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

All Trump supporters might not be racist but they are supporting a racist. There is a very tiny margin of error there. Leftists are called ugly names by Trump but that is condoned by his supporters? I don’t get it.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
adoptedbyhounds

By age 18, one knows whether they are a racist. They cannot be excused as "children".


That's impossible.

Everyone knows the United States of America is infested with racists. There are so many "racists" that the racists themselves don't know that they are racists.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Interesting statement Adopted. It has historically been true. People were unaware that their beliefs about race were racist. If the culture you live in is racist it seems natural, true, and normal.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
catspa_zone9sunset14

If the culture you live in is racist it seems natural, true, and normal.

The names my grandmother gave some of her Black Angus cows would turn more than a few heads these days, but for her era, it was the norm.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
studio10001

As someone who used to sit on an admissions committee, I will tell you that character always came into the selection process. Rescinding admission does not mean that the applicant has no potential to learn. It says that the applicant does not have the emotional maturity to be at that particular school at that particular time. Students always have the option to reapply, or start their education at another institution with the hope of transferring later. No university of merit wants the known responsibility of that kind of discordant attitude on a campus full of potential victims to it.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Nonsense. Students lie on their FAFSA all the time and get audited just to find out the parents lied on their taxes. Students claim to be orphaned when they are not. The school will accept any lie as long as it matches the other lies. This is fraud, and worse than anything a child may have said in their past. That's telling them that cheating is fine. "My parents are divorced" is a common lie.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I would have no problem with a university not admitting a student after viewing objectionable social posts.

My problem is that the students were admitted, then when a social issue blew up that admission was revoked because the students no longer met the standard. The standard changed as a reactionary knee jerk response, not as a well thought out attempt at systemic overhaul.

Nothing changed in the life of the students between those admission letters (which may have been issued months ago) and now. What changed is that now that behaviour is in the awareness of society at large and universities don’t want to face any blow back if someone else exposes those students.

It’s only intended to protect the university. Fine. But to villainize teens who are just acting like teens was well described by Ziemia: “a lazy & self-serving solution to a potential problem.”

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Miss Lindsey, do you have some standard of behavior that you would think it appropriate to revoke for?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Yes patriciae.

Before the start of Freshman year: conviction of a crime, strong evidence of plagiarism/cheating on tests, providing false information on applications

After they have a semester of school under their belts it’s reasonable to look at whether their current behaviour meets the standard of the school.

And I would support the revoking of scholarships at any time for nearly any reason that isn’t discriminatory. That in itself would most likely have the effect of causing the student to drop out.

To come out of nowhere with a standard that didn’t exist when the students applied then to apply it retroactively is hugely problematic in my opinion.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Here’s a question: are they scrutinizing their thousands of other current students?

It seems next to impossible that these are the only students expressing these terrible views. It feels like scapegoating.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

Brava, Lindsey.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

I think we will have to agree to disagree about this insofar as whether its right or wrong to penalize these kids by denying them admission.

That said, I see the "knee jerk response" by the universities in a different light: I see it as evidence that the BLM protests have sensitized them to this kind of thing, to the unconscious and casual racism that blights society, and I would regard that waking awareness as a victory for, and the whole point of, the protests. Change, real change, has to start somewhere. This is a good place for it to start. The universities have a right and a duty to make these kids aware of how very unacceptable racism is. Just ignoring this kind of thing is what has brought America to where it now stands: looking at a racial divide that has scarcely changed in half a century.

Perhaps there are lesser penalties than denial of admission that could have been imposed, but I feel very strongly that the universities are right, and have the right, to demand better of their students.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

It seems next to impossible that these are the only students expressing these terrible views. It feels like scapegoating.

They were the ones stupid enough to get caught. There is no scapegoating if not showing overt racism is part of what it takes to get into any particular college. The colleges set the rules.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
bfox254

These kids have grown up with social media. They're aware, or should be, that their online presence is not private. A teenager who is reckless enough to post that kind of garbage on social media might not be ready for college.

A lot of adults could use the same lesson. Look how many are losing jobs because of racist rants caught on social media.

5 Likes Save    
Browse Gardening and Landscaping Stories on Houzz See all Stories
Houzz Tours 13 Character-Filled Homes Between 1,000 and 1,500 Square Feet
See how homeowners have channeled their creativity into homes that are bright, inviting and one of a kind
Full Story