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need help with north facing front

S G
3 years ago

Hi,
I want to pull out the big bushes and azaleas in the front and open up the exterior.
Want to replant and add Color , have small set of stairs leading upto main door.
So there’s an area 5 ft by 6 ft on one side that will need garden design.
I’d greatly appreciate ideas and suggestions for a newer look and curb appeal.
Am attaching some photos.
Thanks !

Comments (49)

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    3 years ago

    Certainly most of the shrubbery has been horribly pruned and tortured. I'd pull it out and rethink the landscaping.

  • emmarene9
    3 years ago

    It would be better to show a good picture of the front of the house. I do not understand what you are asking us to vote on.

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  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Will prob have to relay lawn grass and move hostas back as it is too large an area.
    Thinking I’ll have to pull out the variegated large bush behind the stair railing as well as there is a flat 6x 5 bed there which can then be planned in cohesion.

  • emmarene9
    3 years ago

    What is you growing zone and please name a large nearby city.

    I agree on the round shrub to the right of the path.

    I think a clean edge around the path is a nicer look.

    I would say you still need a foundation bed at least six feet in depth. You don't want to plant too close to the house. Do you have any favorite plants?

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    Agree with Emmarene9 - cannot recommend anything without knowing your growing zone & general area. Suggest walking around your neighborhood & nearby areas to get ideas of front yard landscapes with your same north facing orientation. Look for mature plants & styles that catch your eye & make you think “ what a nice front yard!” Agree you should pull out that evergreen shrub to right of path & also that you should add color. Don’t forget texture from different leaf shapes & color. That can have as much impact as flowers. Avoid high maintenance pruning needs. Consider adding some hardscape such as boulders or even outsized pots permanently placed which are freeze safe etc. Don’t forget your front porch! looks big enough to have seating and pots with color - consider evergreens or ferns for permanent plants in those north facing pots. I prefer mostly evergreen for front yards & entries so it always looks welcoming all year round.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I am in NY in zone 7

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thank you, I’ll walk around. I am in Long Island.
    And, I’ll be 6 ft away from house and prob will still gain enough space for ever green and then a layer of perennial or colorful annuals in front / in between them

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago

    This is an organizational concept, not specific as to plants. Would break the bed in order to connect lawn to walk.

    Start turning the shrub at the left house corner into a small tree, if it is capable. Re-use many of the hosta but make solid bed -- not scattered.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Very interesting how you connected to the lawn. Will def mull over it.
    Do you have any suggestions about specific plants.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    What app or program do you use to create this ?

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    SG - Yardvaark‘s suggestions are really good. Don’t throw out all the plant material you have without considering where you can replant & use. Solid budget saver! Mass planting of a single plant I.e. the hosta, has lots of impact and is pleasing to eye. Repeated use of same plant in landscape is also pleasing - Creates Cohesive look instead of a jumble of mixed plants. That decorating rule of placing objects in groupings of 3 or odd numbers also applies to landscapes! Also his suggestion of limbing up one of those larger shrubs at the corner of house is great. Some large or overgrown shrubs do have a totally different look when limbed up to be like a small tree - again, a budget friendly idea. Sometimes they have interesting bark or branch structure hidden under their leaves. If you can ID the two I think I see there, google images to get info. One looks evergreen needle type, the other has leaves? And glad you liked that plant site!

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I am adding a picture from across the street to give a perspective.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Is there a relatively easy app that I can use to post my design or plant choices for your suggestions/ comments.
    I have hand drawn pics
    I tried to play around with few apps yesterday but not too successful.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Pic

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    Wow, I didn’t notice that evergreen pyramid in your front yard in the first posted pics! This view changes everything! It looks like it’s been sheared to keep that perfect shape - what a huge maintenance issue! Are you open to having it taken out? IMO, it dominates the yard & isn’t interesting enough to have that distinction. It doesn’t look like a DIY job to remove but neither does maintaining it. Imagine your yard with a beautiful smaller deciduous tree that either flowers beautifully in spring, colors up beautifully in the fall, or both! Even in your north facing front, there must be great small tree candidates in Long Island, NY! Pulling out that tree would really open up your landscape and have such positive impact. Really, that’s absolutely the next thing that would be on my makeover list. Doing that would drive the planting choices for the bed up close to front of house. Maybe Yardvaark will chime in on this again.

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago

    Now you are getting closer to the picture you should have started with .... the overall view! But if you really want to show it right, you need to move in closer -- maybe about 10' from the curb. Turn the camera to use the vertical format. Then take a series of slightly overlapping pictures that pan completely across the yard from one end to the other, while you stay in the same spot, pivoting. BTW, the spot is still in line with front door. Include neighboring houses as part of the background, if they exist. Pictures are free so no need to be stingy.

    I use Microsoft Paint to add the landscape changes. Pretty easy to use the shape and line tools, rectangular-cut-and-paste with just a mouse. It's hard to use the drawing and painting tools unless you have a touchscreen and stylus.

    Since the huge cone does not show up in the prior picture, I'm thinking it's gone (...?) Can't tell 100% from this picture angle, but to me, it looks like you'd want to remove the lowest limb of the tree. And the sprig. There is nothing coming toward us in this direction to balance it out ... and it's low. I'm thinking that it makes the tree seem lopsided when viewed from the side.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    KW - agree with you regarding the giant tree. Can’t remove it self, will need a permit , not sure as feel bad about cutting it down though flowering trees in front.
    In short, for now , I’d have to work around it. I can choose plantings bear the house independent of this one for now. And deal with it later. You’d be surprised that it does not need any maintainence.
    Will talk to H again about its removal.
    More pics to follow.

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    Don’t feel bad about taking it down! I’m so sure you’ll feel so great about having it gone once you see how it opens up your yardscape and in what a difference it makes in your new plant material choices. It will be $$ well spent and invested. It has had a nice life & served its purpose -was probably a very nice small accent when prior owners planted it. You do understand I’m referring to the pyramid evergreen in the yard not the great giant at the street, right? Yardvaark’s suggestion on cutting off the sprouting sprig on street side as well as the lowest branch - or at least part of that branch - on yard side is well taken too.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Yes, I was talking about pyramid too. The sprouting at the big tree needs to be cut but will have to be done by town / approval. I don’t own those trees, they line are street and are magnificent. And I can’t touch them.

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    Interesting- must be an easement there. What kind of tree is it? I agree it is magnificent!

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Yardvaark - cone in center is still here. Debate is on

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    The pyramid/cone is enough in the wrong spot -- blocking too much of the house -- that I'd want it gone. Too bad. If it was somewhere else would love to have it stay and be turned into a tree. If it was in my yard and in good health (we can't really evaluate it well from the last picture) and I was young and strong again, I'd give a shot a moving it.) If you do remove it, then would be the time to take new front yard pictures as I above described so we could see the whole scene in a unified manner.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Update- pyramid cone will go ! But can’t take any pics as it’s still not down.
    Here’s my idea plan , thanks to input by all of you.
    Plant ideas are kept variable depending on what I can get and also for color to mix around.
    Will keep a small bed to plant bulbs or flowers in front of shrubs
    Ideas / critique / suggestions?
    I like red twig dogwood in idea. Don’t know if I can incorporate. Or generally what’s your input on that independent of this ?
    I also like adam’s needle.
    Diablo ninebark ?
    Want to use more grasses
    Keep an evergreen base and then add bulbs later.
    I am in zone 7 in Long Island , NY.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    One more question- should I layer another layer of shorter grass or evergreen / lighter con appearance in front of the short evergreens ?

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    That’s really Great news! I am certain you will be happy with the result & your husband will be too!. My understanding of your plant list is that it contains possibilities, not what you’re going to plant, correct? I have or have had some plants on your list but I’m in zone 8 a, lowest winter temp usually 10 - 15F & a much wetter climate here so the same plants will perform differently than in your zone7 with lows 0-10F. How much sun does your planting area receive? You are north facing & have that huge street tree casting lots of shade. I’m guessing your house shades planting area during afternoons. That’s why you have all those Hosta in front yard. Determining your amount of light will make you add or subtract plants from your list. I looked at your list & layout. Don’t forget Yardvaarks suggestion of limbing up some of those large evergreens on the east side of your house. You may not need the tall narrow evergreens on your plan if you do that. on your list of plants - Can’t quite read the Willow name maybe dappled? But any willow makes me nervous unless it’s out on acreage. They grow too fast & lots of roots that seek water - dangerous for your house water pipes! The dappled willow is grown for its pink new growth color & is fairly high maintenance to keep as a smaller accent shrub or tree. Juniper - too dark, too boring, looks not great after a few years. There are nicer prostrate ground cover forms but don’t think that’s what you’re thinking of. Kaleidoscope Abelia - love it, have it! Grown for Leaf colors of yellow, pink green rather than the typical summer flower. But, mine is in full afternoon sun & I wonder if you have enough sun? Diablo Nine Bark - had it but took out because was too large for my space. It can be pruned but it likes an open space with room. The “Little Devil Ninebark” is a smaller version mature 4x4 size but in my wet zone it gets bigger! Euyonomous - what kind? There are many. Shrub or sub shrub? I think the yellow varigated Shrub type needs sun for that yellow color. & fades to solid green if not enough sun. There’s a white varigated low growing kind that would do ok in shady spots & easy to maintain- just clip off the shoots that are taller than you want & that encourages side growth. Maybe a candidate for planter along edge of front porch? Or maybe some variegated boxwood in that - sort of formal but is evergreen & would show in winter when maple tree dormant. There are several varieties of boxwood more interesting than the plain green ones. Even green with tight very shiny leaves Is nice. Red twig dogwood - had it & loved the red twigs against my fence in winter. Needs a backdrop for the red twigs to shine & it will get big so needs room. For best color & to control size, cut the older canes down to ground each spring before it leafs out. It’s the new twigs that color up in winter. For the space next to stairs from driveway up to porch, my vote is for a small Japanese maple - as is on your list. What a show stopper that would be! And it needs to be the star of the show wherever its planted. Best time to buy a Japanese maple is in the fall when they are coloring up so you can choose for color. That’s the best planting time too so it can work on growing roots all winter. There are sooo many to choose from & so many sizes so you should have choices for 4’ mature sizes. Japanese maples are very amenable to pruning & it’s nice to see their trunk & branch structure so look at the shape under the leaves. It’s a winter sculpture! Find a nursery now that sells them & look at some for names then do some research. FYI, library is a good resource for books on landscape & plant types. We can order books on line & when we’re notified via email they’re in, we make appointment for curbside pickups as our library system was shut down & is in stage 2 of partial reopening. I recommend getting a few books on evergreens, maples and landscape in general as they’re great for ideas and giving one things to consider.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    KW - thank you , I read your post but can’t find it now. Could you please repost it for future reference. The bottom half of my house is red brick , top is white siding. The plant names are ideas but almost final as I did visit few nurseries and will be limited by what they have. I’ll keep in mind your input about willow. I prob will have limited light. I’ll get permit and prune the sycamore tree a bit I should have 4-5 hours of light though.
    Any other plant suggestions?

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    SG - while Looking up plants on your list for growth characteristics & looking at your space & house, a couple things occur to me. It looks like your brick is mossy from being shaded by the plants you took out. I think it’s worth the effort to clean the brick as your new plantings & removing that big “cone“ will highlight that brick wall feature! Not a bad thing! I looked up how to clean brick & it seems not too hard - some elbow grease & many suggestions on cleaning solutions found on Google. I would not want to hide that nice feature wall either with too tall plants so would consider the mature size of the first layer of plants along the house. Vary the height for interest. Also, don’t overplant! pay attention to mature size & recommended spacing on plant tags. Limit the number of plant varieties- too many creates a jumble of plants. Repeated use of the same plant in different groupings gives the eye something to rest on & creates harmony. I.e. the grasses you want to include - 2 on one side of a path & 1 on the other instead of 3 planted in a row. The 4 tall conifers you show on your plan - I might not get any. I don’t think I’d put the one by your front porch as shown On plan. it will be too much there & grow right up into the gutter. Before putting the 3 on the east side of house I would really think about Yardvaark’s suggestion of limbing up one or both of those evergreen bushes you have there. Can‘t ID those plants from pictures posted so it’s a guess that they can be pruned this way. If you want a larger plant there maybe either the red twig dogwood so the winter red twigs will have a green backdrop to show up against. They will blend in to your brick if placed in front of house. About the maple - take the red brick into consideration when selecting a tree. It will be in front of your porch & white siding so a red one would be gorgeous with the brick on other side. But if you pick it out in fall when colors turning, you can also get a complementary fall color. I don‘t have other plant suggestions since I’m not familiar with your area. I do like your picks, especially the arborvitae fire chief & golden tuffet, kaleidoscope Abelia (not evergreen remember! But can be planted in group to form a mass plant) . Also like easy care euyonomous as ground cover & boxwood - an interesting variety, not plain English kind. Boxwood forthe planter in front of porch & maybe repeated to left of stairs up from driveway placed on the outside of planting bed next to grass. I’d wait on conifers & also on dogwood & ninebark until you really see spacing. I learned that “negative space” in a landscape is a good thing. Don’t overplant! Give them room to grow. Have you considered placing 3 large boulders in the planting area? Spread out & randomly placed. We use them a lot here in Pacific NW in landscapes. Adds interest & color depending on type of rock. These are not a DIY thing to bring home & place yourself! Last thing - I can see my last post. Please confirm that you can’t see it still after this post & I will copy it back in then. It’s @ as long as this one.!

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I see this one but not the previous. Please copy paste again. Thanks a lot.
    Brick is to be cleaned. Old trees on left are rhodendron and an evergreen yeh behind it.
    Was thinking of rocks - wasn’t sure hence did not put them.
    Red twig may not show up against brick but I loved it ...hence the ask for future or for backyard.
    Conifers - I was thinking of to vary height , but you may be right about near porch unless I really think of adult height. I did like sunkist.
    Will take one kind of conifer and one kind of short shrub for left of house. Possibly repeat it in the front loop.
    I did not understand your idea of grasses. If you could explain again it’d be great.
    Also, are you talking about boxwood to be in the same planting bed as Mapel. I had initially thought of it but am reading about delicate root structures of maple so not sure ... opinion?

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    SG I found this list for your area (I think) & am excited by many on list! Check it out for shrubs http://ccenassau.org/resources/trees-and-shrubs-for-long-island-sites look at shady woodland areas section of list - many are familiar to me. Skimmia is a nice low growing evergreen. Look up pictures & growth habits of them & check your nurseries to see if the ones you like are available. here’s another http://ccesuffolk.org/resources/long-island-horticulture-resource-guide-2020 - this one is many pages so check index & skip to section. It doesn’t list common names just botanical but I recognize Heuchera / coral bells, that I love - many leaf colors, nice filler, attracts hummingbirds & bees with its tiny flowers on tall stems. Also Acuba, which I have for its yellow splotches on glossy green leaves. I have it in deep shade & the yellow brings Light. Highly prunable, evergreen & very durable here. give it space. I give mine a major trim every spring as it’s been in ground 8 years.

    You absolutely can limb up that rhododendron & I would do it. in Pacific NW ”rhodies” are everywhere & many grow huge & are limbed up & treated like small trees. Let yours grow to a more natural shape as it looks like pruned to a ball shape. You sacrifice flowers if pruned at wrong time. I hope it flowers for you. Leave the yew in its columnar shape. I wouldn’t add tall narrow conifers there with those 2 large plants in place Too much solid green even with the gold tinted “Sunkist”. limb up rhodie, let it leaf out for a season & see what you think. If you think the space is too empty & needs a larger plant, use something with contrast color to the solid green of yew & rhodie. Pieris is on that list & some varieties have brilliantly colored spring growth & small white bell shape clusters of flowers. Easy to maintain too & evergreen. You’ll need to clean out new sprouts from lower limbs every so often after limbing up but not high maintenance. Azaleas are on the Cornell list - do you have them available? They’re a cousin to the rhodie but a much smaller shrub with pretty spring flowering. I’d add them to your list & look for a white flowering one. I think you had some by the steps that were sheared & awful & used for an edging hedge so not right place. Another planting rule “ right plant, right place”. Don’t shear these azaleas, do thin out too long branches with clippers to keep low & natural shape & do after spring bloom. There are different sizes of azaleas & they would be a nice addition to evergreens in your expanded planting bed in front of house. Boxwood - my thought is for 2 places - the repetition concept. Not in with Maple but at lawn edge of planting bed on your left as facing stairs off your driveway. Also in what looks like built in planter along railing edge of porch. Looks like maple should be closer to house than steps & in wider part of that planter. Wouldn’t plant anything too close to it. Maybe use a ground cover like winterberry & put one small round conifer in there to balance maple, have an evergreen & if there’s truly enough space for both to mature. What I meant about the grasses, & all groupings of plants actually, is don’t line the plants up like soldiers except if it’s a hedge. Even when planting in a row, like along the front of house, stagger the row or plant in triangle space shape. When planting a grouping of same plant along a pathway, add one more on opposite side to connect them visually - the repetition concept.

    Note: I’ll repost my notes you can’t see in next post as too long to include with this long one.

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    As requested this is repost of my first reply from yesterday. I deleted the original


    That’s really Great news! I am certain you will be happy with the result & your husband will be too!. My understanding of your plant list is that it contains possibilities, not what you’re going to plant, correct? I have or have had some plants on your list but I’m in zone 8 a, lowest winter temp usually 10 - 15F & a much wetter climate here so the same plants will perform differently than in your zone7 with lows 0-10F. How much sun does your planting area receive? You are north facing & have that huge street tree casting lots of shade. I’m guessing your house shades planting area during afternoons. That’s why you have all those Hosta in front yard. Determining your amount of light will make you add or subtract plants from your list. I looked at your list & layout. Don’t forget Yardvaarks suggestion of limbing up some of those large evergreens on the east side of your house. You may not need the tall narrow evergreens on your plan if you do that. on your list of plants - Can’t quite read the Willow name maybe dappled? But any willow makes me nervous unless it’s out on acreage. They grow too fast & lots of roots that seek water - dangerous for your house water pipes! The dappled willow is grown for its pink new growth color & is fairly high maintenance to keep as a smaller accent shrub or tree. Juniper - too dark, too boring, looks not great after a few years. There are nicer prostrate ground cover forms but don’t think that’s what you’re thinking of. Kaleidoscope Abelia - love it, have it! Grown for Leaf colors of yellow, pink green rather than the typical summer flower. But, mine is in full afternoon sun & I wonder if you have enough sun? Diablo Nine Bark - had it but took out because was too large for my space. It can be pruned but it likes an open space with room. The “Little Devil Ninebark” is a smaller version mature 4x4 size but in my wet zone it gets bigger! Euyonomous - what kind? There are many. Shrub or sub shrub? I think the yellow varigated Shrub type needs sun for that yellow color. & fades to solid green if not enough sun. There’s a white varigated low growing kind that would do ok in shady spots & easy to maintain- just clip off the shoots that are taller than you want & that encourages side growth. Maybe a candidate for planter along edge of front porch? Or maybe some variegated boxwood in that - sort of formal but is evergreen & would show in winter when maple tree dormant. There are several varieties of boxwood more interesting than the plain green ones. Even green with tight very shiny leaves Is nice. Red twig dogwood - had it & loved the red twigs against my fence in winter. Needs a backdrop for the red twigs to shine & it will get big so needs room. For best color & to control size, cut the older canes down to ground each spring before it leafs out. It’s the new twigs that color up in winter. For the space next to stairs from driveway up to porch, my vote is for a small Japanese maple - as is on your list. What a show stopper that would be! And it needs to be the star of the show wherever its planted. Best time to buy a Japanese maple is in the fall when they are coloring up so you can choose for color. That’s the best planting time too so it can work on growing roots all winter. There are sooo many to choose from & so many sizes so you should have choices for 4’ mature sizes. Japanese maples are very amenable to pruning & it’s nice to see their trunk & branch structure so look at the shape under the leaves. It’s a winter sculpture! Find a nursery now that sells them & look at some for names then do some research. FYI, library is a good resource for books on landscape & plant types. We can order books on line & when we’re notified via email they’re in, we make appointment for curbside pickups as our library system was shut down & is in stage 2 of partial reopening. I recommend getting a few books on evergreens, maples and landscape in general as they’re great for ideas and giving one things to consider

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thank you. I needed it so I can go back and refer to it again.
    Yardvaark - am waiting for you to chime in. Might be hard to train rhodendron. Also won’t it look misfit ( that’s the only word coming to mind now ) with the shorter shrubs under window hedge. I was planning to remove them and then plant conifers only for ease of landscape going forward. I’ll re draw with your ideas and post.

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    SG- you don’t have any shrubs / hedge under window now as already removed, right? And, no, limbing up the huge rhodie on the left side of your house won’t make your shrub ball shaped conifers look out of place. You’re just adding some interest with shapes. You can limb rhodie up now then wait a growing season for it to start to recover its natural shape above in the canopy. If you prune top limbs do it selectively with clippers & cut branches different lengths To open up & let air & light into it. The small arborvitae have a “ball / round“ shape that’s part of their appeal so I would space them out about 4’ apart from centers to allow room to grow & maintain shape, and to let the brick peek through. Gives you the negative space I mentioned. Heuchera / coral bells would be a nice filler in between as they’re growing. coral bells are super easy to transplant & to divide - just break off side stems, stick in dirt & water! They are also called “alums” Or alumroot. The info I read on your small conifer picks is 3-4’ wide at maturity. You drew 7 in on plan - too many for your less than 20’ in stretch in front of brick.. Maybe 4 is enough; 2 or 3 of the taller golden tuffett in middle between windows & a smaller fire chief at each end under windows. Don’t plant too close to house! Check the amount of light there as the gold tuffet might need more sun to retain the gold yellow color. I do like conifers with interesting needle leaf shapes & colors. Adds great texture to the landscape. The Right one in right place is a carefree option. You remember I said no thanks to the juniper, because in my area it’s generally not a long term nice looking plant.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Posting another idea where two taller evergreens to frame the pathway and entry to home.
    Perhaps use hydrangeas as a perennial color - not sure about light
    This one seems to provide more color and less evergreen
    Unable to configure the rt side planter bed and also the small bed in front.
    Opinion/ poll ?

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    Hmm. if you like the symmetry of the 2 narrow conifers, placing one at each side of house would look fine. Frames the brick & planting bed In between the two. But I really for sure would not put a tall conifer on the right side - facing house - Of your porch! It’ll block entry & porch & doesn’t feel open or welcoming. If you really want 2 conifers framing entry use something short, no taller than porch railing. But I do like your original idea of a small Japanese maple in that front porch planting area. It adds drama & balances the yard with all the greenery. If not a maple research for shrubs that can be treated as small trees & used as a focal point. Is there a shrub with spectacular fragrance that grows there like DAPHNE ? if you want a shrub something like that which you would smell every time you pass it - magical! Not sure how I feel about a hydrangea hedge. 1 or 2 in the overall mix would be nice & add summer flowers. I like the “Endless Summer” mophead type & the smaller paniculata flower type. Both bloom on new wood not old wood like usual mop heads so they are easy to keep pruned for size & not lose flowers. I have both. Also have “Pia” a small mophead that blooms early & is reliably pink regardless of soil acidity. For front yards I prefer majority of plants to be evergreen so I’d stick with that. Trees & @ 1/3 of plants ok to be deciduous. You want your front scape to have structure in winter - unless you’re buried in snow all winter then I guess it doesn’t matter. I keep looking at those rows of point things on your porch roof & wonder if that’s to keep snow from sliding off in a chunk? I’d like to see live plants in the planter along porch - not river rock. Look up “sarcococca hookeriana” / sweet box. Dark green small glossy leaves, ok for deep shade heavenly vanilla fragrance in winter! This is low grower but there’s a taller version & good to zone 8. I have 2 in back yard by walk just for the winter fragrance. I smell them every time I take my pup outside. Flowers small not showy but powerful smell! Is the bluestone a pathway or landscape boulders? What I suggested was 300+ lb boulders randomly placed in planting area. Attached a couple pics of Coral Bells used as edging, couple of my boulders & my abelia mound which is 3 plants in ground for 7 years & i keep it clipped low which sacrifices flowers but it’s noted for leaf color. Just to give you an idea of my frame of reference!


    Kaleidoscope Abelia biggest shrub in this pic may need sun for color

    i think the coppery peachy grapey colors of coral bells are as pretty as flowers are. Small yew shrub behind them with its yellow new growth

    Front entry - Viridis weeping maple with a great trunk & branch Structure on view in winter. Beautiful orangey fall color. Boulder to right of it, white Pygmy Sawara cypress next to sidewalk.More Cora. Bells at walk edge. Dwarf conifers & elfin thyme ground cover (new last year so still spreading) bordering sidewalk to stone path across top of yard around to a side gate. These boulders are smaller but we chose for color. They’re iron.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    KW - thank you so much. I love your plants, thank you for sharing. I’ll mull over and look at the resources too. Will keep you posted.

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    Would love to see pics of your progress! Especially an after pic when the “cone” is taken out. That alone will make such a difference & change your view of how you want to place plants. Take your time buying plants but if you find plants you want you can get them & set them in place & leave in containers for a bit while pondering placement as long as you keep them watered. Don’t know how seasonal Or available nursery stock is in your area after summer. Evergreens May be more available than flowering shrubs. You have lots on your to do list before planting; prep soil, rake to level & clean out any weeds & old roots, maybe add amendments to improve soil & planters, clean the brick etc. Great way to get some exercise while our gyms are closed, right? Have fun!

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago

    "... If you do remove it [pyramid shrub], then would be the time to take new front yard pictures as I above described so we could see the whole scene in a unified manner."

    "Would love to see pics ...! Especially an after pic when the “cone” is taken out. That alone will make such a difference & change your view of how you want to place plants.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I’ll be taking the cone out in a months time or 6 weeks as I need a permit and also because I’ll have the foundation planting set up to be done and done new grass to be rolled in right after that in a day or two, so it’s not an eyesore patch for the town. Waiting for weather to cool down a bit. And waiting for sprinkler quotes.
    Will definitely post pics then. I love and value all the advice I have gotten here !

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago

    @S G, I have been loosely following along and missed your earlier appeal for my input. I've been waiting for the right set of pictures to show up so that the space can be fully seen and understood. As it is, there is not much to reconcile the plan against. In the best picture to date, nearly 50% of the foundation planting space is covered up. And not much of the house setting is shown at the left side. It's not possible to give good input/feedback when one can only see a portion of the picture. The only comment I can make on the plan as a standalone foundation planting is that it is breaking too many rules that I would impose as a landscape standard: Instead of shrubs coordinating with architectural features, a hedge spans the entire house section. (This will not only add more trimming maintenance, but over the long haul will tend toward the smothered-in-vegetation look.) In front of the hedge are two more rows of plants, creating 3 stripes of plant material when it's all added up. The plan is not to scale so we can't tell it's real dimensions, but I don't have confidence that there is fully room for 3 rows of plants. I would also not have the wavy front edge to the bed. There are rows of plants at the right bed as well. Tall plants flanking the entrance will end up pinching and confining it. I don't get the point of the sliver of gravel, too.

    I suspect that the city requirements about permits and trimming may not be well understood. It would be highly unusual (I'm not saying impossible) for a city to require a permit for the removal of a shrub one one's own property ... which is what the big pyramid is. If the foundation planting is going to be finished and done by the time we get to see the space for it, then there would be no opportunity to give additional input.

    On a close subject, It could also be unusual for a city to require a permit for a homeowner to do ordinary maintenance of a parkway tree. All of these trees will need lower limbs removed throughout their lives (to keep them out of the street if nothing else.) Typically, the homeowner would be taking care of this the same as they would mow grass that is located in the right-of-way, between their front property line and the curb.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Hopefully will have proper pics soon. Permit is submitted for cone. Meeting village ppl tomorrow for pruning of limbs.
    Agree with hedge / span hence initial idea of three conifers or something to cover that left corner of the house
    Do you think you can comment based on current photos about coordination between architectural features and shrubs as had hedges earlier and they got dead beat.
    There’s room for three layers , narrowest 10-11 feet from home.
    Two tall trees framing was a landscapers idea which is what I had incorporated and played with in my second picture.
    I’ll go back to my plan which KW also had given input on.
    These pics are best for now.

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago

    Seeing all of that, I think, gives a good enough overall impression. Thank you. And it's enough to satisfy me that my original concept for the front, with tweaking, is generally workable. I'm thinking you're after something else though, as you did not seem interested in it.

    Whatever the large "shrub" at the corner is, it likely would be better converted into a tree, if it's to remain. It looks like it's presently being pruned to keep down its size. You'd need to show a picture of it's structure and identify it in order that we could confirm it would work. You have a lot of hosta. that would work as a groundcover for a circular bed below the tree.

    Typically, one shrub works with a window, but here the pair of windows is close enough together that I'd opt for the appearance of a single shrub for both windows, as it looks less busy. To make 'a shrub' that large would require 3 boxwood. One centered below each window and one centered between them. Then, you let them grow together and trim as if they were one, broad dome-shaped shrub. The groundcover bed could extend in front of them, but I would not add in a third plant in front of the shrubs. In other words, if it appears that they are sitting on/surrounded by base of groundcover, that's fine. But they are not tall enough to warrant other plants being placed in front of them.

    I would have to reduce the size of the front bed, mainly by separating the house foundation bed, with lawn, from the bed closer to street. IMO, it is overwhelming for the walk and entrance. Now that it is empty it doesn't show so much that way. But fill it up and it's going to look smothering.

    I would likely have the big tree at the street sitting in a quarter-circle bed of groundcover. This could be standalone or it could be tied in with the bed coming from the steps. (We haven't seen this space well enough yet to know its extent.)

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thank you. corner is rhodendron and an ilex behind it. It’s been pruned quite a bit and hence my doubts about it.
    Size of bed will be less.
    I like the idea of ground cover for the street tree.
    I am also using your idea and cutting the bed and having justclawn join the pathway. I have the pic you had posted using the app. I’ll be using the hostas in a cluster , haven’t decided which corner though.
    I’ll go back and see the space with just boxwood and low ground cover, that will work too and keep it simple.

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago

    "It’s been pruned quite a bit and hence my doubts about it." I'm not sure what that means. Doubts about its ability to continue living? ... Or about its ability to become a tree? Or something else? Rhododendron is said to be able to tolerate severe pruning. (I haven't personally cared for one. Just saying what is reported.)

    Keep in mind that boxwood tends to look very tiny when new, so if you get them, since you need only a few, try to get larger ones. Don't plant their centers closer to the house wall than 3'. Begin lightly shaping the collective form during the second year. (Don't wait for them to overgrow and then try to reign them in.) Have patience. Don't prune them as individual balls as that is the wrong look. Also, not saying boxwood is the only thing. It's just one evergreen plant that isn't too difficult to keep below the windows. If it's troublesome where you live (boxwood blight), consider dwarf yaupon holly instead as it would be easy to use in the same way.

  • S G
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thank you. Was doubting the ability of Rhode to be a tree.

  • HOWARD Martin
    3 years ago

    you may need to go with a small evergreen variety but I'm no expert

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago

    I have read comments on various threads about the gigantic proportions Rhodies can achieve if not top pruned. In fact, I vaguely recall a thread of not too long ago mentioning tree versions that were highly prized in some European vacation spot (I think Italy.) Check some images to see possibilites.

  • KW PNW Z8
    3 years ago

    SG. I did write earlier that here in Pacific NW where Rhododendrons are abundant many are pruned to display their lower limbs thus giving them a tree shape. They don’t have a single trunk, but lower branches cut to display the multi “trunks”. Yardvaark is correct in his understanding that they can tolerate. I would prune it because it adds a lot of interest. It’s not a once and done project - May take several growing seasons to open up as high as you want but that’s ok as even partial opening up of base will make a difference. Check this link for info & then just Google for lots more!

    https://homeguides.sfgate.com/prune-lower-branches-rhododendron-31494.html

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    3 years ago

    And if I didn't make it clear earlier, the reason I'm suggesting making it into a multi-trunk tree is because it happens to be positioned closest to where a tree would help the look of your house. It has much more potential for helping as a tree than it has as an overgrown shrub.