Whoever is cooking will be cut off from the goings on in the living room. Unless everyone in the family or everyone being entertained will be in the kitchen.

Closing it off will mean you won't use it ever. Maybe consider opening the wall between the kitchen & living instead. That's the biggest space you have in your house, and it's a shame you don't use it often. The fireplace is a natural divider. I've seen it used a ton as a "wall".

Do you use the family room INSTEAD OF the living room; and if so, why -- natural light? Ambiance ... is it time to redo the living room?

Have you considered expanding your kitchen into the breakfast room (instead of expanding it into the dining room) and opening up a window over the counter between kitchen and dining room? or

Guessing here: If you don't use your formal living room and since you're thinking of expanding your kitchen into your formal dining room, your breakfast room is already your "dining room"?

Have you considered moving the door opening* between living room and dining room over to the left -- to beside the ?fireplace? (beside where the door now is located) -- and end up with a straight clear walk path beside the ?fireplace? from the living room to the family room but thru the kitchen (alongside the row of countertops with sink you add by the bay window) -- and your breakfast room could become your dining room?

*your new door opening between living room and kitchen could be a narrow but full height swinging restaurant/saloon door https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J52gpuKaUVo (or even, at least from the living room side, a "hidden door" ).

We had considered using the Breakfast room to expand into, but due to all the doors and large windows in the breakfast room, the space doesn’t seem to lend itself as well based on the conversations we’ve had as well as our own attempts at sketching out some possible plans.

Interesting about moving the opener closer to the fireplace, we will definitely look at that as an option as it might be a good combination of plans. Thank you!

A kitchen with no Windows would be very dark and claustrophobic to me. Breakfast room combined with kitchen seems good to me.

In what orientation are they placing the island? If it's parallel to the
LR/FP wall, you have 12'. Perimeter cabinets will take up 25", minimum
work aisle is 42", an island with seating is 42", and you'll need at
least 44" to walk behind the seating. That adds up to 153". Using both
rooms, you have the length (22') to have a long island, 32" deep, with
1/2 island/no seating, and half with seating on both sides, or 3 sides.
The aisle behind the seating, and the work aisle, could each be 43.5".

Symmetrical openings on FR wall:

Fridge and range switched:

How many live in the house?

Where do you hang out? Watch TV?

Seems like a waste not to use that large living room space. It doesn't have to be a formal space, just rename it the family room and start using it!

We actually have our TV and sectional in the front "formal' living room. The great room which is open to the kitchen, is used when we have people over. I would hate to be in the kitchen and have to put up with hearing/seeing the shows that DH is watching. Having the TV in the front room also keeps the sound contained. If the TV was in the great room the TV sound would carry into every room in the house.

Have you actually had independent kitchen s designers to help or just cabinet sales people there is a huge difference. IMO you gain nothing by closing off a room from the rest of the space . Mama goose has some good ideas but you give up a DR how inportant is a DR and hosetly I need to see the spaces with some pictures , what you have are a bunch of weird sized rooms that really make no sense.. The FR is so small how do you have room for more than a sofa and a TV. I think I need to know your budget and have you any idea what walls are loadbearing. That is where I would start get the loadbearing walls marked and then find out how to handle removing any of them to make this whole main floor function much better. To me opening the DR, FR BR and K to one big open space would be the answer .

@Patricia Colwell Consulting

Thank you. We have spoken to some ID, some KD and some shops that sell and have KD on staff.

The FR is exactly that, a Sofa and a TV and while we cannot fit more, it works perfectly for a small casual space for the two of us. We are not fans of totally open concept so opening all the walls is off the table. We like the idea of separate rooms, old fashioned perhaps, but we do like to maintain some flow and function between the rooms, which is why we are concerned about basically sealing off the LR. Today if we are entertaining and people are in the LR it’s an easy move to the DR. Moving the DR to the BR would change that, but we would gain a potential great entertaining space for 3 season as the DR would open out onto the large back deck through the double doors (will be replaced with Bi-Fold or Sliders most likely).

While it seems to be en vogue to ditch the DR, we do like having a dedicated DR as we entertain family and friends enough that we like that formal space. We don’t so much care where it is, but we like it as a separate space.

@mama goose_gw zn6OH

Your first plan is very similar to somethibg we’ve seen in our discussions. The last two I really like as you keep the space more open, and still get the bay window incorporated. Venting the range becomes somewhat of a challenge on that wall versus BR/FR wall (which has nothing above), but we would probably duct it through the upstairs bedroom and hide it by expanding where the chimney framing juts into the room by the 8-10 inches needed. I would even consider not adding the extra entry to the LR on the left side, as that is close enough to the existing entry and would allow a longer run of Cabs or possible wider fridge, although the straight walk through from LR to Kitchen to DR might be nice. Thank you!

@chispa just the two of us at the moment, however when/if that grows the idea would be to convert the FR from our TV den into more of a playroom/kids area and make the LR our daily TV room. We could do that today, but with just 2 of us it’s just easier or maybe more comfortable in the FR. We do occasionally watch TV in the LR, or if we decide to both take a break and read some books or listen to some records we may hang out in the LR instead. Thank you

@itsourcasa that is very interesting as we would like a pantry but have been having a hard time figuring out where to put it. There actually are built-ins on either side of the Fireplace now, so this is very interesting indeed as that is basically already there. The Tv is currently in the pantry space, however we have no need for a large Media console as we have no media devices anymore. Putting the TV onto the back of the new pantry wall would probably work there. Thank you!

You have a great space to work with, good luck!

P L, I think your drawing is out of scale, therefor it seems that you have more space available than you do. I don't know how anyone can imagine perimeter cabs on one wall, sufficient walkways, an island with seating, and a pantry cabinet on the parallel wall. It won't fit, unless the island is a work table only 20" deep, and the pantry is only 12" deep.

I was thinking about another variation of the two door plan. (We have had a circular traffic pattern in almost every house we've lived in, and I added another 'circle' with an addition for entertaining. It's nice to have flow between rooms.) I can't find a way to put the range on the exterior, so I drew a plan with the fridge closer to the breakfast room and entry. I also moved the sink and DW to the island, to keep the prep path efficient.

That leaves the bay open--I moved the serving area to the bay, and put pantry cabs on the other wall. Aisles and island depth are still the same:

BTW, can you clarify where the fireplace framing juts 8-10" into the room--or am I misunderstanding?

ETA, here's the existing kitchen and DR, drawn on a grid, 22.5 x 12' (allowing 6" for dividing wall). The counter at bottom is standard base with minimum overhang, 25". The island is standard for seating--base cabinets, minimum front overhang and back panel, and 15" seating overhang (total 40"). The NKBA recommends a minimum of 44" behind seating, and you would have only 37".

@mama goose_gw zn6OH it very well may not be to scale. I think you are correct that there would be no room for a narrow storage on one side, full cabs on the other and an island in the middle with ~40in walkways. I do like the circle pattern, it is what we have now around the Kitchen, but including the Kitchen in the flow would be ideal. We hadn’t thought about having a section of cabinets or anything along the bay window wall that wasn’t contiguous as part of an L, I guess all the KD we’ve talked to prefer to stick to the classic shapes even when they may not be the best fit.

On the Fireplace, that is about the rooms above. It is an expanded 1/2 Cape, and the edge of the Kitchen/DR is the edge of the original roof. BR and FR were additions at some point and have nothing above. If Range is on the BR/FR adjacent wall it can be vented straight up through the crawl space and out. If Range is on the LR adjacent wall it, above it is a bedroom. There is a section of bedroom wall that sticks out into the bedroom by ~12in which is where the chimney passes through. I was thinking if the hood vent followed along that path, we could still vent straight up through the bedroom by extending the chimney protrusion to make space for the hood ducting. It is about 7-8 feet long now, so adding another 10-16 inches on the end would not look all that strange. Otherwise venting options are difficult from what I have seen (no down drafts as we are going pro style gas range, or at least that is the plan). I am probably explaining this terribly, forgive my lack of knowledge/terms here. Picture attached with the second floor bedrooms. The wall between the two does not show the chimney passing through, but that is where the 7‘ x 12in section protrudes into each bedroom

Thank you for the additional ideas, I’ve been browsing this site for months for ideas and I just have to say what a great community with so many inventive ideas and people so willing to help. It’s quite an endeavor as a first major remodel. Even after talking to several ID and KD, I thought we had explored all the avenues, you guys have brought up so many additional good ideas in 24 hours it’s amazing.

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Your explanation is fine--I just wasn't sure which room you were referencing in your previous post. Is there a way the vent can do a 90 degree turn and be run above the LR door to the exterior wall with the bay? Looks as if it might be about 9'. If not, you can check into an in-line/remote blower to add to the vent pipe if it has to travel farther to the roof.

@mama goose_gw zn6OH I don’t think we have the ceiling height (less than 8’ ceilings) to hide a soffit for the vent with a 90 turn out the side. If we were walling off the LR entry it would work as we could hide it in the upper cabinets. I think straight up through the bedroom, tucked away next to the existing Chimney vent/framing should work if we have to go that route once we talk to a contractor and look at the options for venting. Thanks!

Here it is in accurate scale, so you know exactly where the range would need to be. I put equal-width drawers on each side, but those could be adjusted if the range needs to move a few inches either direction. The bay is just a place holder, since I don't know exact measurements. I drew a bar sink, prep sink sized, so it can do double duty. If you need a 24" chiller, or beverage fridge, the prep sink could move over.

I drew 42" for the work aisle and 45" for the aisle behind the seating. The island will be long and narrow, and you might need a seam if you're using a stone slab.