With reasonably fertile soil, you can get by using only alfalfa meal and a topdressing of compost to fertilize roses. Or just use a rose or tomato fertilizer. Or Osmocote. There is no need to pile on various fertilizers and frankly, I do not understand why so many rose gardeners think these plants need some sort of specialized fertilizing regime to thrive. They are tough, hardy, flowering shrubs, just like most other tough, hardy, flowering shrubs, and do not require all the nonsense that seems to be promoted for rose growing.

I tend to use alfalfa tea....but only as a supplement. I do not rely on it as a full range fertilizer (because it is not). And I use the tea rather than the meal because so much of my growing is done in containers and a liquid form is far more effective.

Gardengal14, how do you make your alfalfa year? Thanks!

Meant 48 not 14

Alfalfa is an organic. Any organic feeds the soil. Good soil feeds the rose. If you have good soil you don't need a lot of other stuff. Is it OK to mix it all, yes. Is it necessary, no.

I assume you mean alfalfa tea :-) The first time was by accident. A bag of alfalfa meal got wet and fell apart. Thankfully it was in a plastic storage bin so I just added more water and let it sit. It started smelling a bit ripe after about a week and was ready to use. I have since been using the same bin to make and keep alfalfa tea in on a year round basis.

As noted, I use it only as a supplement, not a full service fertilizer. I tend to use Osmocote Plus for all woody plants in containers but use the tea maybe once a month on plants that would benefit from an extra boost (roses, clematis, lilies, containerized annuals, etc.).

Yes, alfalfa tea 😊.
Thank you for sharing your recipe

@gardengal48 could you share a formula for alfalfa tea that gives approximate quantities? For example:

1) Put N gallons of water into a bin

2) Add M cups of alfalfa meal per gallon of water

3) Mix until.... (i.e., do we need the alfalfa meal to dissolve or not?)

4) Wait P days

5) Extract liquid and use T tablespoons per gallon of container, once a month

It does not need to be exact numbers. Just ballpark things. Otherwise I am going to end up guessing and creating toxic waste that burns plants on contact. :)

After you make the tea, the residuals cannot be used again and should just be placed onto in-ground plantings?

LOL!! This isn't rocket science, precision is not required and you will not burn your plants with a "toxic waste"!!

The common recipe is 4 cups of alfalfa meal to 5 gallons of water. But I have never measured either the amount of meal or the water used. Wait 3-7 days until it begins to smell and it is then ready to use. I never dilute it. And you can use it as often as you wish but I doubt you need to use more than weekly.

As I stated upthread, my big tote bin (18G) full of alfalfa tea gets added to on an as-needed basis and with no attention to measuring (although the bag of alfalfa meal is 3 pounds so approximately 6 cups). There are no residuals and nothing just gets dumped out....it all gets put to good use.

Does anyone have an objection to the "Down to Earth" Alfalfa Meal product?

@gardengal48 That formula works, thanks. :)

How much of that tea would you apply to each plant that is the size of a four foot high rose bush?

I do it more by container size. And to a recently well watered container (never one that is dry). I pour in as much tea as it takes to flood the top of the container....so maybe an inch or so.

And I will just reiterate that this is not a process that requires any kind of precision or careful measuring :-)

@gardengal48 the amount of detail you provided was just what I wanted, thanks.

Here is a thread I started asking about aa tea. I am sold on aa tea, it has worked miracles for me. I use aa tea and also aa pellets. It takes time for for the aa pellets to break down and release the goodies when added directly to the soil. I find I get most bang from pellets if I add them around the bush late fall. Then they decompose and all the good stuff is right there when the roses wake up. During spring summer fall aa tea works best. This is my and a good few people's experience.

There is one serious nay sayer in the thread. He offers zero evidence why he believes aa tea does not work. And he actually has not tried it either. Anyway it has worked well for me.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5749417/what-is-your-opinion-experience-with-alfalfa-and-aa-tea-qs

This is my first year using alfalfa tea, and I have no idea if I'm doing it "right" - but my roses have never looked better! I take a box of alfalfa meal and dump it into my 40 gal. trash can. Then I water with the jets on high to get whatever microbe action needs to get going. I let it steep for about 24 hours, then use my watering can. I just keep re-filling my green watering can & dumping it all over the garden until I can't really get the stuff off the bottom. Then I spray the hose high powered again to create a bit more liquid to mix with the left-over meal that's on the bottom. Then I scoot the can over to my fruit trees and dump the rest out near my fruit trees.

I also did this about two weeks later with a bag of earthworm castings. A guy at the local nursery advised me to use a pond bubbler/oxygenator in the trash can to give the microbes as much oxygen as possible to maximize the tea. I didn't use the bubbler thing, but I did put the jets on high on the hose to do the same thing...though obviously I wasn't continuing that all night long!

The combo of doing these two things just gave me the best spring I can remember in a long time. As others have said -- I didn't do anything really precise.

Deborah: You will get more out of the aa meal if you let it ferment a little longer,a few days at least. You dont need an aerator for it to work. Use a long stick to stir the mix once a day or whenever you can. I cant recommend aa tea enough. You might want to browse the link above. A lot of people have contributed.

About four years ago I started using alfalfa pellets, go to your local feed dealer you can buy a 40 lb bag for about $15, I use a handful around each bush about each 4-5 weeks. try it you'll like the outcome .

Is there any reason to prefer alfalfa meal powder to the pellets, for either making the tea or for using on plants? Feed stores have 50-pound bags of the pellets for less than $20.

@katyajini I use alfalfa tea and I haven't seen any miraculous results from it. I also can't say it doesn't work, I simply don't have enough data. It's impossible to do a scientific trial in a garden. My intuition is that the roses like it and it works well as a part of mixed feeding regime but it's not like they are growing basals in all directions. Just reasonable happy and reasonable healthy roses. It won't make them grow out of their natural rhythm, won't make them do something they don't want to do and won't make them grow bigger than is typical for my climate with cold summers.

Pellets work great westes.

Edhelka: I do get pretty good effect. Yes, not possible to do a controlled study in a home garden. I compare to how the roses were growing in years past and then aa tea seems perfect.

Can someone clarify what is the difference between alfalfa "meal" pellets and just alfalfa pellets?

At the feed store, I asked for "alfalfa meal". What they gave me were pellets that are marked "alfalfa". Is the meal processed differently before being turned into a pellet?

American Rose Society has a good article on Alfalfa and its merits. Worth reading. Only no no is putting down alfalfa pellets meant for feeding rabbits or livestock that is mixed with other stuff, better check as this is often sold because it is cheaper.

Don't forget 1/2 C of Epson salts. Helps with basal breaks and new shoots. American Rose Society also has a good article on Epson.

I copied the below information but cannot recall if it was from the Houston Rose Society Newsletter or the American Rose. I have found it useful. The tea is too much effort for me these days, but many swear by it.

The Formula I copied:

From my own experience, I use about 2 cups of alfalfa meal or pellets per rose bush and lightly scratch it into the soil in the Spring and again in the Fall. That basically is the story on use of Alfalfa. I also believe the tea works nicely and sometimes will brew-up a small batch with about 2 pounds of pellets in a 5 gallon bucket of water aging it over a week and applying some to bushes. I add more water and keep steeping the meal for several more batches. The bushes definitely do seem to be healthier as a result and they seem to appreciate the tea in the heart of a heat- filled summer. I also like to use about a tablespoon of alfalfa meal or so on newly set out cuttings that I am trying to root, whether in pots or in the garden. I tend to get better results with this slight boost.

Below also from copied from another....

The Epsom Salt Council offers these tips:

After pruning, scratch 1/2 cup into soil at rose's base to encourage flowering canes and healthy new basal cane growth.

Apply 1 tablespoon per foot of plant height per plant every two weeks.

Soak unplanted bushes in 1/2 cup of Epsom salt per gallon of water to help roots recover from stress. Add a tablespoon of Epsom salt to each hole at planting time.

Spray with Epsom salt solution weekly to discourage pests.

Organic Gardeners will know much more than I do for sure!

Do more research on Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate). Oher than addressing a possible magnesium deficiency - rare - it has been proven to do NOTHING to encourage or stimulate any other sort of beneficial growth. I'm rather surprised the ARS would endorse this - they should know better. And that's just marketing BS from the Epsom Salts Council!

The Myth of Epsom Salts

It also has no pest repellant properties either!

Please google this article, i couldnot get link to work. It debunks my previous post and provides great scientific information on our previous believes and practices concerning many organic amendments, including alfalfa and epson salts.

Nutrient Research, Scientific Research on some Favorite Amendments

from ARA

What is the website @Austin i googled but couldn’t find anything

I put some alfalfa tea out this afternoon. I used to use meal or whatever alfalfa was available ( not tea) but I noticed more new basals after using the tea. Also just tossing out some alfalfa on the ground can result in it crusting over and it appears to repel water when it crusts.

My hunch is that steeping the tea for awhile brings out more of the tricontinol. Someone here said that a few drops of soap is needed to get the tricontinol out of the alfalfa. I suppose a few drops wouldn't hurt. I forgot it today. I didn't add any other fertilizer to it because it is kind of early to stimulate too much growth. If it was more settled weather I'd toss in some Miracle Grow.

Seems to me that I had better repeat bloom in my garden when I fed a second round of 10-10-10 after the spring flush. I think the rose exhibitors have some idea what kind of feeding regime works to get the best , biggest blooms. I doubt they just say no need for special food. But I don't push for best and biggest. I do like some repeat. I like new plants to put on some growth and get established. I don't worry ,much about older plants.

I have not made a stinky batch of alfalfa tea yet. I use a rectangular low Rubbermaid type of tub. I am guessing that less anaerobic bacteria builds up because of the greater surface area. I stir it now and then. I suspect it's easier to scoop it out of a tub than a trash can. It smells good, like fresh hay.

I started my first batch of alfalfa tea a few days ago. I used six cups of alfalfa pellets into 20 gallons of water. That was about mid-range for the amount recommended on one site, but way under the "one cup per gallon" recommendation I have seen on other sites. I wanted to start conservatively.

After two days there is very little smell. The plastic garbage can gets direct sun. Should I be smelling something foul by now? Do I need to up the dose?

I live in 9b, near Napa SF Bay Area. For many years I went to the feed store and scooped alfalfa pellets into paper bags, weighed them, and hauled them to my car. This year I took advantage of Amazon Prime free delivery and bought this 25 lb. bag of alfalfa meal. It says to use a half to one cup for each rose and I was able to get about 100 roses fertilized with this bag which was about $44. The meal breaks down far more quickly than the pellets and I'm seeing my roses leaf out very well. It reminds me of green tea and smells like fresh cut grass.

Ann

https://www.rose.org/single-post/nutrient-research-scientific-research-on-some-favorite-amendments

I posted article in a separate post because I thought it relevant. Summercloud shared the link I was unable to obtain.

Hey gardengal thank you so much!!!
one of the dangers of getting old is you save articles too long and neglect to update for newer research. New news turns to old news and the often wrong news.

It might be time to re-familiarize the readers with the original questions.

I keep hearing that alfalfa meal is a good rose fertilizer. Several sources recommend combining it with an organic rose fertilizer, along with some composted manure.

Is it safe to combine all three sources and apply to the roses at the same time?

If you read the label on commercially bagged organic fertilizers, you'll see a mixture of plant based and animal/byproduct based materials. The only organic fertilizer component to be wary of is blood meal. Blood reconstitutes into a potent product when it gets wet. If there is too much, it can easily burn the plant. In packaged mixes it is used sparingly so as not to overdose. It gives a quick greening effect while the plant based ingredients typically take 3 weeks of microbial processing before they kick in.

Is it safe to apply this to roses once a month?

You cannot overdose with organic fertilizer...with the exception of blood as mentioned. You can apply once a month, once a week, once a day, or once an hour. The long processing time it takes for microbes to decompose the fertilizer into plant food will always protect your plants.

What is the additional value of using alfalfa tea instead of an alfalfa meal?

Excellent question. Even after reading gardengal and all the above comments, I am unaware of any benefit of tea over meal. It seems to be a matter of convenience. On the down side, any time you leave plantstuffs in water, the water will grow some microbes from the plants. Whether those microbes are beneficial or pathogens is the question. I suppose whether they have PRACTICAL benefits or disease is a better question. Just because the tea might be full of pathogens does not translate into diseases, because the billions of soil microbes will go to work immediately once the tea water hits the ground. I can add that water warmer than 70 degrees F will tend toward favoring pathogens over the beneficial microbes. Why? Because water warmer than 70 degrees has less and less capability to hold oxygen in the water. As soon as you add the beneficial aerobic microbes, they deplete the oxygen leaving not enough to survive. Then if you feed the water with, say, alfalfa, the microbes multiply and use oxygen even faster. You can aerate this water all day long, but it cannot absorb enough oxygen to support the increasing amount of beneficial microbes. The is the big problem with actively aerated compost tea, but y'all are not talking about aeration at all.

You've been hearing that alfalfa makes a good rose fertilizer. Here is a picture of our Knock-Out roses entering year 5 with nothing but alfalfa and cornmeal as fertilizers. I have not bought chemical fertilizers since 2001, so everything I have has been organic for a long time.

The plants on the ends are pink while those in the middle are red. I pruned them about 2 weeks before our deep freeze here in Texas, and this is where they are. Last year at this time there was one flower, but that was without any freeze. I know a lot of people don't think of Knock-Outs as real roses, but they serve a purpose for us. We wanted a little privacy on our back patio. These will grow up to about 5 feet high before I take them down like a hedge. Our neighbors report they need more water than other roses, but since we don't have any other roses, I can't comment. Once these start blooming, they bloom until mid December here.

Isn't the foul, rotten stink a sign that anaerobic bacteria are being cultivated in the alfalfa tea? From what I've read , anaerobic bacteria are bad for plants. And I just don't want to get stinky germy stuff on myself. Every time I put alfalfa tea out I get wet. I have also read that adding molasses to the tea, as some people do, is more apt to breed bad bacteria.

Always good to have factoids dchall san antonio. I am pretty sure your Knockouts would have grown the same and bloomed the same with only Mother Nature's assistance. I would not give too much credit to alfalfa but rather to the ability of that plant to survive anything except RRD. We rosarian's do not dislike the plant but that is used so indiscriminately by many who do not know or sometimes care the damage that can be done once RRD disease hits. They are not interested in watching for RRD symptoms so the plant can be removed. Their interest is in the plant remaining in the landscape for as long as possible, to meet landscaping needs. They do not share the joy we have in the many flower varieties, nor the challenge of the plants many idiosyncrasies. This attitude of panting primarily for landscaping needs has resulted in much damage to the beloved plants we nurture and love for their many rewarding features beyond filling this landscape need.

To many of us our plants are family.... not up beside our pets or relatives, but still on the list.

This was not meant as a personal criticism and since you post here, I am certain you are a conscientious gardener. I found your information an interesting read. All these posts are an education for me to think beyond what I knew or assumed I knew for so many years.

Unfortunately, Kock Out roses are a button for many of us due to the damage that has resulted in thier overuse in landscapes. Forgive the rant.

Thanks Austin. While I have a few rose plants, they are not a hobby like lawns are to me. So thanks for the heads up on RRD. I would not have been aware if/when it hit me.

It has wiped out National, and International Rose Gardens and many valued home gardens. This happens wherever the climate allows for the microscopic, unwinged mite that transports the disease to live. This is about everywhere. It travels via the wind and by contact with anything that then comes in contacts with a healthy rose. It has destroyed magnificent climbers on castle walls that have been growing for centuries. Like combo of cinchbugs and grubs on steroids. No cure currently for RRD you can kill the adult mite, not the nymphs; the plant will eventually succumb usually after infecting other roses for months or years. Our best hope is preventative but that is impossible when an infested rose lives anywhere nearby. Our personal gardening pandemic without a vaccine or cure for the infected.