Wasted days and wasted nights

Stan Areted

...that can never be reclaimed or changed.

Many parents are abdicating their responsibilities and wasting the most precious times in this life by constantly looking at computer screens, phones, and other devices while their children are ignored, or addressed quickly, seldom giving their children their undivided and uninterrupted attention.

This is a trend I have noticed for years, moms with children and they can't keep their eyes off their I phones, standing in stores, at the checkout, sitting in the vehicles, and not just for a few moments--almost constantly, including at public outdoor activities, particularly in restaurants. Children are eating alone while both parents are glued to their phones. Sometimes the children have their own devices at the table. There is often no interaction during a meal to speak of.

I wonder how it makes a child feel to see a parent constantly online, googling, reading, checking facebook, texting friends, while a child waits. And waits. I have wondered what a child thought about that, and particularly since this pandemic and people being inside, if many people put the devices down and increased the attention they were giving children. I think early on people did make forts, use sidewalk chalk, read to them, play games, talk with the older children--but people are back at work, more stressed, and back to the phones and computer time, getting some type of normalcy.

My question is, is it normal to stay online hours a day and night when you have children still living at the home, and will the children be normal when they leave? Will their memories be of mom or dad looking down at a device when they passed by, or patiently waiting to get a bit of attention or be heard?

Does it make a difference either way to most children? Will it twenty years from now when they recall their childhood and time at home? Will it make a difference to the parent twenty years from now, or ever?

Cat's in the Cradle?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3194143/Children-reveal-parents-addiction-mobile-phones-makes-REALLY-feel-thought-provoking-new-video.html

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/much-time-parents-spend-screens

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foodonastump

I wonder how it makes a child feel to see a parent constantly online, googling, reading, checking facebook, texting friends, while a child waits. And waits.


What, the kid doesn’t have his own screens?


Seriously though, yes, it’s awful. Guilty as charged. And it’s not just the kids that get neglected. I’ve wanted to implement a screen times rule in my house. Never quite happened though.

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Lulu Smith

I am constantly amazed by the number of people who feel they have to answer a telephone when it rings. With almost all phones having an answering system, we do not answer phones immediately unless we are awaiting for a specific call (eg. from a doctor or an impending birth).

I find the trend to answer calls immediately very rude when you are with someone. Why is the caller more important than the person with whom you are currently conversing?

Certainly no phones whilst dining, at home or especially at a restaurant.

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Iris GW

^^ with you on that one, Lulu! Let it go to voicemail, embrace technology!

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queenmargo

That is because the devices are an addiction.

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queenmargo

Why do you think they have the *like* button? Adds to the addiction.

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sleeperblues(3-wisonsin)

My kids are 28 and 30. Video and computer games were starting their onslaught when they were tweens and teens. DD was always a go-getter, on every team and committee she could be on in school, DS could have become addicted to screens so easily. We fought long and hard to limit his time with gaming to one hour a day. He moaned and groaned, never got a playstation, boo hoo. A couple of years ago, he brought up how strict we were with him, and actually thanked us. They are both of course tech savvy as young adults, but have many memories of time spent with family and friends instead of glued to a box. I seriously fear for our future generations, living for the "likes".

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arcy_gw

I think COVID-19 put a HUGE spot light on families and parenting and the lack of it that has been going on. Even before the internet with the dawn of copious amounts of discretionary monies families decided little Johnny was well severed, better served in day care all day, then little league/hockey/piano etc. etc. etc. all evening. Family time is taxi time. At school we hear "we don't want them to have homework, when they are at home we don't want to battle with them, we see them so seldom!! To add insult to injury these small survey results are extrapolated and reported that all this SOCIALIZATION is great for kids. They are thriving, it's all great! B.S.!!! NO one talks about the depression, anxiety, mental illness that is soo much more prevalent in today's youth. What happens when NO ONE pays PERSONAL, undivided attention to children?! They become anxious, depressed, unmotivated, uninspired!! Covid forced families to interact, be at home, entertain each other, teach each other, BE FAMILY!! What's teh result, well look around. Which generation isn't wearing masks, isn't caring to stay home so we can all be safe! I can't count how many times we had class zoom meeting with students and they were with buddies, out and about or the friends were all over getting cozy. It is REALLY REALLY difficult to undue selfish. Good luck to us all.

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Stan Areted

It is interesting that it's been brought up about video games, popular in the 80s and 90s and afterwards.

Never owned an X box. I do recall Oregon Trail software, that was somewhat educational.

Perhaps the addition started early; in any event, adults that should know better than to ignore their own children, their spouses, their homes, their businesses in pursuit of an online presence and seem to get endorphins for how they feel about themselves online. Not everyone, of course. Just an observation. It's understandable how forums and chatrooms or online courses, browsing is attractive for a senior citizen, particularly now, who doesn't need to get out much, no longer has the day to day responsibilities when younger, and enjoys the interaction.

I hope the children don't follow the parents and and turn out to spend hours a day online for pleasure; what fun and sharing they're already being denied.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I am wondering if there ever really was that somehow ideal time when parents spent all their spare time mentoring and encouraging their children. Historically that wouldn't be the case since the even moderately well off had servants to look after then and the poor were working very long hours as were their children. Boys of even modest income families were sent away to school at around age 8. The less well off were apprenticed close to the same age. Girls maybe? But fathers had little to do with daughters in general. I will have to think about this.

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HamiltonGardener

Hubby and I were discussing a related topic the other day.

When we were kids, there was a school life AFTER. School. The building would be buzzing with volleyball practice in the gym, various after school clubs in the classrooms, track and field practice outside, etc. Heck, even house leagues like dodgeball. We remember almost everyone signed up for clubs. We were there until supper time, and sometimes practices were held even after supper, so we would eat and head back to the school.

Now, the school pretty much shuts down as soon as the bell rings.

The thing is, all of these activities were free. It was part of school. It didn’t matter your income bracket, you could participate. Now, parents pay for after school daycare, then they pay again to sign them up for private after school activities. Soccer? You don’t play at your school, you pay to play on a team. Track and field seems like a dying activity from a bygone era. That after school community inside the school no longer buzzes. Teachers are begging the kids to sign up for school activities.

So why did it stop?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

HG in my area school activities still exist. All our kids play school sports, none play club sports. The middle school has “homework club” after school, open to every student but especially beneficial for kids without a supportive home life. Periodically throughout the school year certain special activities are added, like karate club or various STEM courses or book clubs.

As to what happened to schools as a gathering point, I think it’s two things: 1. Teachers are required to supervise every activity and they don’t have the bandwidth to add any more to their schedules 2. Liability insurance prohibits activities that aren’t supervised by faculty or administrators.

I agree that school buildings are a grossly under utilized resource.

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elvis

Lulu Smith

I am constantly amazed by the number of people who feel they have to answer a telephone when it rings. With almost all phones having an answering system, we do not answer phones immediately unless we are awaiting for a specific call (eg. from a doctor or an impending birth).

I find the trend to answer calls immediately very rude when you are with someone. Why is the caller more important than the person with whom you are currently conversing?

Certainly no phones whilst dining, at home or especially at a restaurant.

100 "llikes", and ditto, Lulu.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

As to the topic of the thread, it is possible to use devices intentionally as a way to connect with kids.

My kids and I share news stories, memes, craft ideas, recipes, fashion. Many family discussions are jump started by things they’ve seen online, whether news or entertainment. I am teaching them how to evaluate an online source of information and how to research for further understanding. And they know that screen time is entirely at our discretion.

There is still more than ample time for offline interactions, and like Lulu we never answer phones (even business calls) or have devices (or books, or television) at the dinner table or overnight in bedrooms (the one exception being when our teens need their phones for alarms to go to their 530 am jobs each weekend).

That being said I have never believed that it is my duty to entertain my kids 24/7/365. I must be available to them for physical maintenance, emotional support, and guidance at all times. I need not give them my undivided attention past the stage of development where their safety is an urgent concern.

It’s important to me that they learn to play and work without a referee, and I believe their relationships with each other are stronger if they can exist outside the orbit of Mama and Papa. (Having only one child would of course make this more difficult, and for families with a single child more of the playmate role inevitably falls to the parent.)

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elvis

patriciae_gw(07)

I am wondering if there ever really was that somehow ideal time when parents spent all their spare time mentoring and encouraging their children. Historically that wouldn't be the case since the even moderately well off had servants to look after then and the poor were working very long hours as were their children. Boys of even modest income families were sent away to school at around age 8. The less well off were apprenticed close to the same age. Girls maybe? But fathers had little to do with daughters in general. I will have to think about this.

Um, what era in time are you writing about? In my childhood bubble life, no one was sent away to school unless it was reform school. No one was apprenticed at age 8 for anything,, and Daddy taught all of us, male and female, how to build stuff, how to fish, how to ride a bike, etc. Mom led our Girl Scout troop and helped me with schoolwork and piano lessons. C'mon.

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kadefol

It’s not just kids either, our house guests last year were glued to their cellphones and could not make it through a meal without exchanging texts with other people, checking social media, etc. These are people in their 40’s and 50’s who really ought to know better.

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Lulu Smith

My mother was busy working outside the house and taking care of the house. She was my mother, not my best friend. I didn't expect her to play with me or entertain me. As a kid, it was my job to entertain myself and find friends with whom to play. I can't imagine "playing" with my mother. I would have been shocked to have her on the floor with me. Most undignified. My parents worked and provided a safe, secure home for me. Were they supposed to do more?

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elvis

If you were all quarantined in the house together, yes. That would have been a good opportunity to spend time together doing thing they might otherwise not have had time for.

I think there's a difference between parents not being able to pay much attention to their kids because they're too busy keeping the family housed and fed, and parents not paying much attention to their kids because they're playing on their laptops/phones.

Necessity vs pure selfishness.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Well Cat’s in the Cradle (referenced in the OP) is about a father who works too much and fails to develop a relationship with his son, who grows to have no time for him in return.

At least according to that songwriter there isn’t a distinction between too much work and too much phone to the kid.

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Olychick

It makes me crazy that people are so addicted their phones. Before covid jail, I often would take my grandson to his swim lesson. Small pool, not too many kids at once. I swear that sometimes EVERY single parent or grandparent who was there waiting for their child had their noses glued to their phones. I'd watch all the kids swim and so often they'd do something new in the water, or do something well and look up to see if their parent was watching. It broke my heart that so many didn't pay any attention to their child, like FB was more important.

Or go to a family holiday gathering and some people spend the whole time looking at their phones. Like WHO is more important than the people you are with?

I went to an event with a cousin I hadn't seen for few years. We grew up together and were like sister when young, but our lives have taken different directions so we don't see each other often. She and her hubby arrived first and saved me a seat. I sat down expecting to visit before the show started and she whipped out her phone and started looking at FB??? I asked what she was doing and she said she had to "check in." For who? No one cares where you are (her kids were both with us). "Yes they do." Was clear why we are no longer in close contact.

We are in our 70's so there is no hope for her kids or grandkids - or their generations I'm afraid.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I guess my experience is different -- those who keep checking their phones are doing so for work. As many know, the 8 to 5 work day has gone the way of the dodo for many -- and heaven help you if you're the one stuck dealing with companies in time zones way different from yours.

Mobile devices make an employee available 24/7.

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elvis

Mobile devices make an employee available 24/7.

That would be horrible. Unless one is occasionally "on call", that's completely unreasonable.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I remember being in a restaurant and the whole time a mother and daughter were at another table, on their phones essentially throughout the whole meal. I felt so sad. I know if I could have even just one more lunch with my Mom, the last thing I'd be looking at would be the phone.

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elvis

...and I'm sure she knows that, Annie.

About that mother and daughter you saw: maybe they were on their phones with each other? Probably not. That's sad, too.

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Stan Areted

I remember being in a restaurant and the whole time a mother and daughter were at another table, on their phones essentially throughout the whole meal. I felt so sad. I know if I could have even just one more lunch with my Mom, the last thing I'd be looking at would be the phone.


Exactly. That is what I think when I see this--and not just a few minutes, but for an entire meal.

Although no one need to, anyone can justify the time they are on devices--computers, phone, as being one's "free time" or "work time" (and I agree, I knew years ago when laptops were given to employees that weekends and an hour or two at night during the week would no longer be for one's self or family--employees were expected to check emails, few of which were truly important) and certainly parents should not "play" with their children all of the time.

But parents who spend hours a day, even in ten minute sessions, send a message t their families--sometimes it can be good--that there are interested in the world, exchanging ideas, working, purchasing for the family, etc. But all too often children and even more important, teenagers see parents addicted and not interacting with them--whether they "need it" or not. The children interviewed illustrated this concern very well.

Of no matter, we already have another generation that has learned.

I hope they fare better than the now grown up latchkey or otherwise neglected kids that are rioting, setting businesses on fire, looting, vandalizing, screaming, and who possess no working knowledge of basic American history. I think their brains still work off the residue of chemical laden happy meals and chicken nuggets and not much else.

Who knows what a vegetable and a truly present parent could have accomplished.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I would challenge anyone to find any teenager of any generation who *doesn’t* feel misunderstood, unheard and unseen by their parents.

And we should also remember that teens are famous for ignoring their families until they want something, and then wanting it NOW and feeling quite offended when their parents aren’t immediately attentive.

Those are both completely normal and expected stages of adolescence.

So although as parents we should take our kids’ concerns seriously and always strive to provide the most supportive environment possible, it’s also important to remember that their impressions are just that—impressions. And that those impressions are influenced by their development, the ideas they are exposed to in pop culture, their friends, etc etc etc. It doesn’t make their concerns less valid, but it does mean there maybe isn’t quite as much guilt and shame to be put on parents.

To extrapolate that out to use parents on phones as the cause of rioting, looting, and burning is questionable to me for two reasons: 1. The generation whose parents are on smart phones all the time are in their teens and early twenties at the oldest and they aren’t the only ones rioting, looting, and burning 2. Rioting, looting, and burning have been methods of pressure release and war since humans first gathered in clans. It’s nothing new and is a phenomenon that cannot be circumvented simply by having a parent with no phone.

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batyabeth

thanks miss lindsey you said what i was thinking. How did our poster go from lachkey kids to looters as CAUSATION? Sheesh. Mom was a latchkey kid, so were many of my cousins. Folks had to work. Nowadays many parents have to work 2-3 jobs to pay rent and feed the kids. Not fancy vacations, not hundered dollar shoes, just a roof and food. Extrapolating that to "they'll grow up to be arsonists" is ludicrous.

"I am teaching them how to evaluate an online source of information and how to research for further understanding"

Yes, this is crucial. I try to teach my classes this, and it's amazing how just suggesting that they can evaluate what they see online for facts or bias opens their minds.


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Stan Areted

I guess you missed the part about latchkey and ignored kids and a bad diet?

Not to mention not both parents in the home.

Not to mention a sober parent, or one not stoned.

It doesn't matter if a child has a parent that is president of a company and citizen of the year--if a parent with children spends "too much time" attached to a computer, an I phone, a pad, that is time likely better spent.

But, we all get to make our decisions.

Lots of psychiatrists and therapists will learn whether it was too much time or not.

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Stan Areted

Not all latchkey kids grow up to be looters, but I sure would like to know if everyone that looted and set fire to businesses and was violent grew up in a loving, two parent, committed home and tucked in bed at night, no drugs, no alcohol, no yelling, no abuse, and education was encouraged and reading was important.

How many, I wonder?

Barring the unexpected illness or death of a parent, or unusual circumstances, generally there's really no need for latchkey kids.

If a child has to let themselves in day in day out for years, it is the result of some decisions that did not put the child first.

Just like checking facebook when your child is trying to interact with you, as the precious but sad little tykes described in the video.



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elvis

miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I would challenge anyone to find any teenager of any generation who *doesn’t* feel misunderstood, unheard and unseen by their parents.

And we should also remember that teens are famous for ignoring their families until they want something, and then wanting it NOW and feeling quite offended when their parents aren’t immediately attentive.

Those are both completely normal and expected stages of adolescence...

I'm impressed! I thought your bunch were all very young, but you sound like you've raised several teens already.

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Nana H

Elvis, Miss L has made it very clear she has teenagers on several threads, hair cutting, shopping for Easter treats. home schooling. In fact you posted several times on the thread about the Easter Bunny and her teenage daughter doing the family shopping.

Sounds like a lovely family with all that goes with having kids. It's a big job and one most parents do well but I guess they are all Republican...hoot!


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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Thanks Nana :-)

Just a minor correction, only homeschooling during Covid shutdowns. Normally our kids go to public school.

elvis the eldest of my kids is 17, youngest is 5. In addition to my own, over the years I’ve provided regular childcare to my cousin and to 13 nieces and nephews who currently range in age from 7 to 22.

I like to think my experience level with children of all developmental stages is high.

I also know that every child is different and having had experience with dozens of kids does not mean that I know everything about children in general or could predict anything about any individual child.

Beyond that, one doesn’t require any personal experience with teens to have a basic understanding of the hallmarks of their development. It’s a simple matter of gathering information and retaining it.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Elvis, I used the term Historically as a reference point. The raising of children has been going on for literal centuries you know. Our present day norms are not the norms of even the fairly recent past since ubiquitous electronics is relatively new. Previously people who had children also had other things to do rather than entertaining the little dears. My favorite hobby is social history and for sure how we think of children these days was not the norm. Even when I was a kid I didn't know of a single father who played ball with the boys let alone girls. Fathers were distant creatures who decided what channel the TV was on and whether or not the dinner was well cooked. Their schedule was sacrosanct and you got out of their way. We moved a lot. I knew a lot of different kids. In spite of the beliefs about it most of the mothers worked in some capacity or other. They took care of domestic details and usually showed affection to their young but weren't their best friends. I have only know a few parents who showed an intimate interest in their child's daily life and it struck me as claustrophobic. I know a woman who when her daughter married and moved away she had her husband retire and buy a house just down the street-eek by my standards.

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HamiltonGardener

Alright, I admit...

I WAS a latchkey kid... in a time period with no internet and cell phones. I ran wild with my friends around town and in the woods with no cell phone to call home and let them know where I was.

If I didn’t make it home by time the street lights came on, they sent the police out to bring me home, dead or alive.


AND... I completely ignored my kid. He ran wild with his friends. In fact, I have no clue where he is now, but I am sure he probably needs a haircut... fricken hippie.

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Stan Areted

Well HG, I have to admit if that is all true, then you turned out fine, and your kid turned out lucky. ;)

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HamiltonGardener

You never know. I might be a mass murderer and my kid helps me hide the bodies....

;)

Just kidding, of course.

But I’m on board with Mss Lindsey. I think kids are capable of and should be encouraged to care for themselves and entertain themselves much more. Parents don’t need to be hovering as much as they do,

It encourages independence, not rioting and looting.





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ubro(2a)

My question is, is it normal to stay online hours a day and night when you have children still living at the home, and will the children be normal when they leave? Will their memories be of mom or dad looking down at a device when they passed by, or patiently waiting to get a bit of attention or be heard?

Normal has a way of changing thru the years. I remember when we got a TV, we were the last family I knew to get one because apparently the 'boob tube' would ruin family life. We would become distant, glued to it's programming and what would become of the younger generation that sat and watched the idiot box. Those were my dad's thoughts just before he caved and bought one.

Possibly children raised in families with parents that would rather pay attention to their phones will be dysfunctional. IMO those parents would have found another distraction as I highly doubt they would be the type to engage with their children anyway.

ETA, I agree Hamilton, kids need space and I am seeing more and more parents think that their little child does no wrong, even if they do. Some are so busy needing to be friends with their children they omit any semblance of discipline.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Ubro that leads nicely into something I intended to ask Stan today and forgot:

What’s your opinion of “helicopter parenting?”

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elvis

IMO those parents would have found another distraction as I highly doubt they would be the type to engage with their children anyway.

Good point, ubro. Some people just aren't cut out to interact much with their kids: they create them, show them off when it suits them, feed and house them, and let the schools do the rest. I have no doubt that they post "happy family" photos on their FB pages!

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ubro(2a)

miss lindsey there now is a new term around here "bulldozer parenting". It refers to those parents that need to remove any and all hurdles their children come up against. They constantly get into the middle of every conflict no matter how small and feel the need to make sure that the child has a smooth life with no bumps along the way.

I remember a University art class I took a few years ago, the prof was lamenting the inability of the young to think for themselves. A student of his came to the drawing class without a drawing pencil, when asked why ,since it was a pretty important item, she replied " my mother forgot to pack it".


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Stan Areted

I understand not coddling children; it is paramount that they handle their own problems at as early as age as possible; of course independence is most important--if more people concentrated on that there wouldn't be all of these helicopter parents that actually fill out forms for college. I know parents that did that, and researched the colleges, as well. I know a person that drove one hour each way twice a week to go clean her son's freshman dorm and wash his clothes.


But back to the original premise and the original videos, are those children that are lamenting their parents getting up first thing in the morning and spending all that time online just little whiners? They are wrong for wanting time with their mom or dad? They need to be more independent?

I don't think the answer is that easy. Those children didn't look spoiled or particularly needy.

They looked nice but they seemed sad and neglected.

Apparently that's not a concern to most people.

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Ann

HG, lots of after school sports practices for my grandkids - all of them. The kind of schedules you remember, both after school and even after dinner too, on some days. I don't have any runners in my group, but track and cross country is definitely still happening. In August, as soon as school starts, I see the high school cross country teams running/practicing in nearby neighborhoods whenever I'm out and about in the late afternoon on a weekday.

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Ann

Stan, I think phones are a huge addiction for tons of people - parents and kids! I think it's a significant issue and even a physical issue in that it's impacting posture. So many people are walking around with their shoulders rounded and chin lowered, when they are on their phone and now even when they aren't.

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daisychain01

Amazing with such phone addiction, I can't seem to get my 15 year old to reply to a single text to let me know she arrived safely at her destination today. Sigh.

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HamiltonGardener

Daisy,

Thats because your teen only replies to “cool” people.

Sorry Boomer. You’re not cool. 😎

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

definetely addictiv


in some German areas/ states they developed a test for ability of speech/ langueage for pre schoolers


they found a whole bunch of hardly speaking German kids from German parents who just were spoken to too seldom, that`s crushing

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Stan Areted

I agree, linaria.

There will be other things they don't learn, as well.

But by all means, some can go with the flow and tell them to "google it" when they have questions and look it up themselves rather than actually sit, look them in the eye without a phone or computer around, answer their questions, talk about it, show them, and experience it with them.

Maybe one day that parent may get a link instead of a visit.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

linaria, about that German study are there any more details you can share? When it was developed and produced, changes over time, etc? Maybe a link to the study if you should happen to have one?

My experience with Germans (nationals and those of German descent) is that the “children should be seen and not heard” stream runs strong in them, especially those over 45 or so. In addition most (not quite to say all) of the Germans I know are not what one would label as “chatty.” “Taciturn” might be the more fitting descriptor for them.

I’m just wondering if the study looked at the effect of screens specifically, and if it controlled for cultural norms that favour efficiency of speech and children being silenced.

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HU-274840647

Back in the day when mobile phones were so expensive that only business types had them and used them to show how important they were when walking about, Umberto Ecco was not impressed. Umberto said that if indeed they were top business men they would have tied up their dealings before they left the office.

Nowadays some find it Impossible to shop without one “what cheese do I get dear?”

We never had a phone when I was growing up, and I never learned to talk for a long time on one, I use it to send and receive messages. When people call for a chat and I ask them what they want this is always followed by silence.



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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“When people call for a chat and I ask them what they want this is always followed by silence.”

This made me laugh out loud. You and I would be good phone friends it seems; straight to the point.

The only person I chat with on the phone is my mom. We only see each other in real life about once a year or less, talk maybe every 2-3 weeks. We’re friends now but weren’t when I was a kid. She was the mom. I have fond memories of working and playing games with my parents but playing with them wasn’t a daily or even weekly occurrence by any stretch of the imagination. I also have fond memories of mom shooing us out of the living room so she could watch her soaps, of her chatting on the phone with her friend about those soaps for an hour every night, of her friends dropping in for coffee and being told “go play now so the adults can talk,” of her humorously noting that my little sis always burst into her bedroom needing something when she was on the last page of her book, of my dad sitting in the basement reading his books and listening to his records whenever he wasn’t working, of his daily coffee trips with his buddies even when we were small.

I’m not denying that phones can get in the way of good parenting. (Of course they can also promote good parenting if people have been educated about how to use them to gather and apply information.) And I agree that they are addictive in a different way than television or books.

But this is the first generation ever that parents have been expected to be 100% engaged with their kids 100% of the time. And to be actively shamed when they aren’t. It isn’t how we’ve developed as a species and it wasn’t the reality of any generation from the older Millennials up. Yes our parents taught us (general), interacted with us but we were not their sole interest.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

I think the whole OP is based upon a bunch of stereotypical junk assumptions. Remember when working dads being barely involved in their children's lives was considered normal? Hardly my idea of idyllic. Yet some keep going back, again and again, to harping about what they think parenting should be, and how families should be structured.

Now too many assume that phones equal little time interacting. If someone watched us as a family waiting for a table at a restaurant, and we are all on our phones, it is more than likely we are each checking out ideas for taking a hike together the next day. Over dinner we might discuss the various options we each found and make a decision where to go. That is a lot of quality together time. But yeah, I know, we were on our phones when you saw us.

unless children are being abused, mind your own business.

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elvis

But this is the first generation ever that parents have been expected to be 100% engaged with their kids 100% of the time. And to be actively shamed when they aren’t. It isn’t how we’ve developed as a species and it wasn’t the reality of any generation from the older Millennials up. Yes our parents taught us (general), interacted with us but we were not their sole interest.

I disagree that "parents have been expected to be 100% engaged with their kids 100% of the time."

IMO the OP issue/subject is that nowadays many parents put their internet addiction before the welfare of their children. Of course, one can't really determine what goes on behind closed doors, one can only draw conclusions based upon what they can see. For example, if you know that a particular person is engaged on the internet at all times of the day and evening, and also that they have full-time job responsibilities, and also that they have children, it's easy to conclude that something is suffering a serious lack of attention. Or they're just super-parents. Could be.

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elvis

gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

...unless children are being abused, mind your own business.

So are you saying that it doesn't "take a village"?

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Nana H

Amazed by the world that so many of you seem to live in. Bearing witness to legions of parents plugged into to their phones and plugged out from their kids,

My experience is quite the opposite. I see young engaged parent who take a tremendous interest if the well being of their kids. If anything maybe a bit to involved sometimes but certainly not disconnected.

I am particularly impressed with the role Dads have taken on. Very much more involved in all aspects of having a family from pregnancy on through. I love hearing young Dad "to be" saying that "we" are pregnant. Also love the numbers of Dads who are happily taking paternity leaves to extend the stay at home days with their youngsters.

I see much less of what some here see and much more of involved committed parents....who yes live in a different time and do it differently than we did. I can recall my Nana being appalled that we were allowed to watch TV through the week.

ETA I'm also "impressed" with how perfect and judgemental some people are. All the right choices, all the right decisions, perfect parent raising perfect kids, who grew up to be perfect adults who went on to have perfect kids in turn.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“I disagree that "parents have been expected to be 100% engaged with their kids 100% of the time."”

Oh? Based on what?

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

re test for preschoolers:


couldn't find the whole study,

there is a book on it from 1998,


it is based on picture of a teddy bear,

a simple story showing the teddy doing stuff

the child is asked or encouraged to tell what she or he sees


it is done usually in Kindergarten to see how many kids do need additional tutoring


apart from immigrant kids who often lack the vocabulary when raised by their grand parents, without kindergarten,


there is this new-ish phenomenon of those wordless kids.


there is a German prof (neurology, "brain science") who does studies himself and screens studies of fellow scientists,


he stressed that liquor and tobacco are addictive and come with some age regulation,


social media and smartphones are highly addictive as well and are not regulated whatsoever ("like handing your kid the key to the liquor cabinet...")


there are even generations of youth growing up with eye ball deformation, he quoted some studies from South Korea- I think- where they found shortsightedness caused by staring from a short distance at the tiny smartphone screen (which goes everywhere with them)


but the main point is: it is highly addictive, and when I watch people on the train, subway etc. the grey haired folks more often then not fiddle with their smartphones, not reading rather playing some Candycrush or something.

My MIL sometimes slinks off without explanation when we are visiting to sit down and play on her tablet...

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Stan Areted

unless children are being abused, mind your own business.


that could be said about a lot of topics, here!

It is my business when I have to pay for the loser kids people are NOT rearing.

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HU-274840647

That kind of thinking is too far out for any rebuttal from me so I will just offer a mask analogy. It is said that the reason the wearing of masks neverl took off in the US is because it was suggested that you wear one to protect others and not yourself.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

So are you saying that it doesn't "take a village"?

I imagine our interpretation of what "it takes a village" means are different.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

It is my business when I have to pay for the loser kids people are NOT rearing.

Nope. Unless you are the parent, guardian or otherwise directly financially responsible for the children, it is not not even a tiny bit your business.

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elvis

^^^I suspect that the children Stan alluded to belong to parents who most decidedly are not "directly financially responsible for their children".

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Nana H

Wonder how much of your tax dollars go to help those children compared to the total tax you pay. Children are never a waste of money.

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Stan Areted

The money is mostly wasted.

Money doesn't compensate for a sorry parent.

Money doesn't compensate for anything.

Read the Head Start statistics--not much difference.

You don't throw money to solve a MORAL FAILURE.

Look what's happened the last fifty years--throwing money at moral failures.

And we have---ding ding ding--MORE moral failures, not less.

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elvis

Children are never a waste of money.

Not in dispute, nana.

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maifleur03

So the sins of the parents are visited on the children for how many generations.

When someone states that parents should be engaged with their children 100% of the time it presupposed that the parents are robots that with a flip of the switch they are on. Then the question that arises should be where do the parents have time for each other when everything is focused on the child. Seen too many families that the child no matter if they are 1 or 50 are the focus and the only thing that matters in a family. Always ends sadly.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

^^^I suspect that the children Stan alluded to belong to parents who most decidedly are not "directly financially responsible for their children".

No such distinction was made in the OP and it still does not matter elvis. Even if a family were to receive 100% financial assistance, it still is none of stan's business. Period.

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HU-655163766

This op has to be one of the most ironic ever.

People who live in glass houses ......people whose lives include a very large chunk of every single day sitting behind a computer - right here - instead of doing all those things you're lamenting children dont do.

You may even have children rolling their eyes as they see you once again sitting. And not interacting with the world around you. Maybe they've even suggested you get out more.

Wasted days?


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elvis

HU-655163766

This op has to be one of the most ironic ever.

That could be true if the OP has children at home in need of nurturing parents. If the shoe fits. Stan has previously posted that all children are grown up and on their own. No, the OP is about children neglected due to parental internet addiction, in a nutshell.


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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

...the OP is about children neglected due to parental internet addiction...

And knows all of these children are being neglected how exactly?

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elvis

The OP didn't claim to know:

I wonder how it makes a child feel to see a parent constantly online, googling, reading, checking facebook, texting friends, while a child waits. And waits. I have wondered what a child thought about that, and particularly since this pandemic and people being inside, if many people put the devices down and increased the attention they were giving children.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

So, repeating, the whole OP is based upon a bunch of stereotypical junk assumptions.

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