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kidshop

To answer Gizmo in the other thread. Trump did try to stop the Rioting, burning and looting, and he did bring a quick stop to it in DC when he brought in the national guard. Thank goodness.! He offered to help with Chaz/chop but they wanted to keep their terrorist occupation at least until the murders started.

Trump is criticized for attempting to stop criminals but he has stood fast to hold order in DC.


The criminals are taking over and in lots of cases are being allowed to.

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jmm1837

Well, it depends on what you call criminal. Trump violated the constitutional rights of a whole lot of peaceful protesters for a photo op. I call that criminal.

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justerrilynn(10)

Democrats don’t care as long as they win. 5% of all U.S crimes are racist related. It would be better if it were 0%. America is not a land of billions of Racists today though. As usual the dem’s are exploiting. Anyway, this tactic is nothing new. Watch “The Unauthorized Biography of Socialism “ with Bret Baier. It’s a series and very good.


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deegw

Is national crime on the upswing? You declared that it is in the thread title but I didn't see any mention of it in your links.

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Ziemia(6a)

To counter the misrepresentation of events alluded to would take a very big number of paragraphs and sources. And it's been covered here multiple times recently. Many others feel differently.

PS: Hunh. We have the exact same statue of Lincoln in Boston and some have been asking for its removal for years. From many angles, the "freed slave" looks to be submissive. There is one angle where he looks grateful but the overall experience is demeaning.

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Ziemia(6a)

Many found the marches to get us out of Viet Nam scary and unAmerican.

Oh, and the ones led by MLKjr as well.

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Ziemia(6a)

"To counter the misrepresentation of events alluded to would take a very big number of paragraphs and sources. And it's been covered here multiple times recently. Many others feel differently."

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maifleur03

When I read about the homicides here most are friend on friend or between family members. Articles above make it appear that they are random people. Since most are spur of the moment from anger issues given the people involved they are not strangers killing each other.

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zmith

You’re characterizing folks exercising their First Amendment rights to “lawlessness?” This isn’t Russia!

Since you want to focus on DC, are you at all concerned about the lawlessness going on in the White House?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Trump did try to stop the Rioting, burning and looting

Mayor Garcetti and Governor Newsom had the CA National Guard in Los Angeles long before Trump made his statements.

Minnesota had their National Guard in Minneapolis before Trump's statements as well.

The CA National Guard is long gone, and we are still having protests here in L.A. -- no problems, and I doubt if there's anything but local news coverage.

Edited to add: The statue of Fr Junipero Serra was toppled in L.A.'s Olvera Street. Fr Serra has been a controversial figure for years, and calls for removal of his statues in California date back a number of years. Some may recall the campaign against his then pending sainthood based on the forced conversion of local indigenous peoples at the missions -- and general mistreatment of those who converted.

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kidshop

I call criminals the ones, rioting, looting, burning businesses, blocking streets, assaulting LE, vandalizing public property, trying to occupy cities and run off the police.


There are clashes every night in DC, b/c the criminals think they have the right to do whatever they want with no consequences.


There is a fence now up around st John’s church to ward off the occupiers. Yes, I know the pastor said she didn’t mind them burning and defacing the church and she didn’t really like the fence. but the church gave consent to put it up. I wonder why?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I call criminals . . .

the LAPD officers who beat peaceful protesters, used less-lethal projectiles on bystanders, attacked press.


From the Los Angeles Times: Class-action suit against LAPD adds fresh claims of injury, anguish among protesters


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HU-274840647

Protesting is lawful so it is important to rename protesters rioters and criminals so that they can be dealt with illegally.

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ImWithJoe


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kidshop

Ok, Chaz...peaceful protesting or rioting/Terrorism?


You are pretending I am talking about actual peaceful protesters and we all know I am not.


oh and the crime I am talking about is this year, specially the increases since everyone decided they hate the police and don’t want them to stop criminals anymore.

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daisychain01

Thanks for starting this thread. This is something that I'd love to hear ideas about. I haven't been impressed with any of the approaches I've seen proffered from main stream parties. I feel very strongly that this is a subject that should be receiving the most investigation, funding and interest, but all I ever hear are the same political solutions geared towards re-election of whoever is in power. I'd bow down to anyone who figures out how to turn things around with a long term solution and is able to convince people it's worth taking a long haul approach.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

daisychain01 may I introduce you to Mr Andrew Yang?

https://movehumanityforward.com/

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cattyles

Daisy’s comment made me think of Yang, too. It just wasn’t the right time for Yang, I guess. But I hope he hangs around and is offered a role in the new administration.

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elvis

^^^He seems like a nice young man.

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kidshop

I gotta say I like the slogans ‘humanity forward and humanity first“! And math yay! It’s very inclusive and positive.

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numbersjunkie

"Democrats don’t care as long as they win."

Huh? Is is a joke?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I tried to read that article and I couldn’t make heads or tails of it, nor how it proves that crime is on the rise nationally.

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kidshop

It’s my thread so I don’t have to stay on topic 🙂. The article about about Tim Scott explains his experience trying to pass the police reform bill. He’s black so his opinion matters.


edited to lower snark level

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

None of us *has to* stay on topic. It’s a courtesy that most of us forego, several times everyday probably.

Thanks for clarifying that it isn’t about crime, I was wondering where my head was.

As to the rest of your comment I’ll just pass on replying to it.

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

Homicides and attempted homicides are up locally. People appear to be taking advantage of lockdowns. These are gang-type assaults within the local city, and police say these people are known to each other. They are not completely random.

Over the last couple of weeks, about a dozen people have been shot when just walking down the street. No arrests.

As to property damage, that has been limited. Rather than a political statement, the damage has been to arbitrary targets - a statue at a veteran's center, and outdoor statues at some local churches. They are vandals simply engaging in opportunism driven by boredom and metooism.

Once an area becomes "occupied" and civil authorities are neutered or sent away, that vacuum gets filled by petty warlords. There have been signs of that at chop/chaz. I expect it will either break up soon because people have to get back to life at some point, or it will break down into petty infighting between groups.

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Iris GW

The article about about Tim Scott explains his experience trying to pass the police reform bill.

Yes, I created a thread about that and included details on why the Democrats disagree with some of the points of that bill and important points that they feel are missing. I'm glad that my elected Democrats are looking out for Americans and arguing for better than what Tim Scott has proposed. That is why I elected them.

I notice that you didn't participate in that discussion:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5944051/police-reform-bills

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Annie Deighnaugh

I find this focus on "lawlessness" by the right hypocritical as:

a) much of the violent crime was being perpetrated by right wing extremists but blamed on peaceful protesters:

A far-right extremist movement born on social media and fueled by anti-government rhetoric has emerged as a real-world threat in recent weeks, with federal authorities accusing some of its adherents of working to spark violence at largely peaceful protests roiling the nation.

At a time when President Trump and other top U.S. officials have claimed — with little evidence — that leftist groups were fomenting violence, federal prosecutors have charged various supporters of a right-wing movement called the “boogaloo bois,” with crimes related to plotting to firebomb a U.S. Forest Service facility, preparing to use explosives at a peaceful demonstration and killing a security officer at a federal courthouse....

Now federal prosecutors in California, Texas, Nevada and Colorado appear to be endorsing those concerns with a series of criminal charges against self-described boogaloo supporters, whose arrests often were accompanied by the seizure of weapons and explosives. (Source: WP)

and

Right-wing extremists are turning cars into weapons, with reports of at least 50 vehicle-ramming incidents since protests against police violence erupted nationwide in late May. (Source NPR)

=========================



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Annie Deighnaugh

b) the real threat to American democracy is coming from within the administration as barr's efforts at the behest of the president to politicize the DoJ and use it as trump's personal enforcers to go after his enemies and go easy on his co-conspirators is alarming. That's not to mention the other serious blows to our Constitution in terms of undercutting the system of checks and balances by defying subpoenas, refusing to turn over documents, tampering with witnesses and more, let alone the bold-faced defiance of the Constitution in violating the Emoluments clauses, obstructing justice, and corruptly using political power for personal political gain.

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paprikash

The democrats are proving what they are — the Party of Hate and the Party of Lawlessness as well as proponents of open borders, sanctuary cities, and mob rule. It is what it is.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

So you keep saying paprikash.

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Annie Deighnaugh

The gap between how paprikash describes the dems and who they actually are is big enough to sail the QEII through it.

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paprikash

I call them as I see them

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Over and over and over...

When you say “democrats are the Party of Hate” dozens of times a week who is really the one spreading hatred?

And who are you trying to convince? It’s not like you are the only person here who knows “democrats.” We can all feel who is exuding hatred and who isn’t in our day to day, real life lives. In my experience it isn’t restricted to one political position.

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kidshop

Last night in portland

https://katu.com/news/local/protesters-lit-fires-damaged-businesses-in-north-portland-police-say


it’s not me who says things like ‘protestors lit fires’. Lol. I call them criminals.


I’ll check out the other thread, thanks

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jlhug

ImwithJoe, With all that has happened in 2020, the chart that goes through 2018 is irrelevant in this discussion.

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studio10001

kidshop, I think lionhart answered your earlier question about chaz w that last paragraph ( hr. ago.) My take, given what the mayor has said in interviews is that that area is often 'occupied ' in summer - by festivals/ community events, so this was an area used to some activity. The protest seems to have lost steam w time, which was the point of allowing them there. I recall the protests of 2000, at the Rep. convention - I believe this was the year that the 'Free Speech Zone' became a thing - where marchers and bystanders alike outside of the cage were corralled by orange net into a single area @ pier 57 and arrested- and the city ultimately payed out $ 18 million in illegal arrests and surveillance to the demonstrators. Convention goers were not incensed that protestors had taken over several city blocks; they thought it was funny, and really, really funny that whole swathes of NYC dems had been swept away for their benefit. Democracy is messy, but not as messy as the consequences of bringing in violent police action ( or the national guard), in the current instance, against those protesting violent police action.

The mayor has allowed the protest, because protestors have a constitutional right, and she has de escalated what was an extremely tense situation by removing its obstacle, rather than stomping on the problem. She has gone to speak w the protestors, given them time to organize their ideas about how to move forward, and has now said that she will work w community organizers to end chop. Police are set to return to the east precinct. Democracy is also slow, but it works.

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jlhug

Annie Deighnaugh, one could easily say the same thing about how the liberals describe the conservatives.

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kidshop

Studio, thank you. Your version is pretty sanitized and utopian. The reality was quite different. It really wasn’t a protest, but a takeover of an area of the city by criminals with no rule of law. Then the violence started. Tolerate it and you will get more of it. Set a precedent and both sides will start to use this as a tactic for their demands and ideologies. Then you really will get militarized police. It is shocking so many many want to give in and give up to criminals. I am not capable of understanding it, I guess. And you will have to point me to the constitutional right to forcibly takeover 6 blocks of a city.


The businesses in that are are now suing, btw. As they should. The law abiding, tax paying citizens were not protected.


I’m really starting to get a bad feeling that most of you here really do think these people rioting are protesting legally...


I think it in pacific NW, these criminals are mostly antifa or egged on by antifa based on past clashes.

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Kathy

It is astounding the RW thinks all crime is coming from the left.

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studio10001

I agree w you re. the businesses involved, and that protestors don't have a right to take over the area - the comparison between the Seattle protests and the convention protests is that they are both examples about containment of the issue - nothing sanitized in that. Zoning the protest was a compromise the mayor made, not a forced demand from criminals. That distinction is important, because it acknowledges their right to protest, and hers to mitigate any repercussions to the city. I sense that such mild moves to lessen tensions are what appear sanitized to you? But they have generally succeeded in lessened tensions, and arguably led to less violence overall.

Regarding criminal activity -Tusitala “Tiny” Toese was arrested yesterday for recent violence in chop, as part of a gang that assaulted members of the protest, before fleeing in a van w no license tags. He is a Proud Boy and member of the Patriot Prayer group.

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blfenton

Annie Deighnaugh, one could easily say the same thing about how the liberals describe the conservatives. - jlhug

Or how the conservatives describe liberals. What I see here is how the right wing "hates" the left wing, how the republicans view the Democratic Party as the "party of Hate", and the way the conservatives view liberals seems to be wrapped up in hatred as well. I don't hate any of them, do I disagree with many of their opinions and beliefs, of course. But as their exalted leader stated "there are good people on both sides".

It saddens me to hear the word hate just bandied about without any care for it's meaning.

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Stan Areted

I don't recall seeing one conservative say they hate anyone; I don't believe I've used that word, even describing regretting something (I hate the event was canceled) I retract it and do not recall using it in print or public conversation. The word was one of several forbidden in our household and it wasn't difficult because my family does not "hate" anyone or anything, including myself.

So where is all this "hate" from the right coming from?

I don't believe it exists from most conservatives because, unlike liberals, we don't care what the left believes, that's their business. I have no need to convince anyone to believe like I do nor do I judge them for thinking differently about how to address a problem. My problem comes in when a liberal won't pony up and do what they advocate, they insist WE pony up, pay for and get on board and support what they advocate.

The outright hatred and admitted use of the word, of President Trump winning the presidential election in 2016 just cements that this country made the right decision.

I hope it does in 2020; if not, the democrats are all over the place, they do not know what to do, but the communists will be in control because the old lazy tax and spend promise anything to minority democrats are feeble and don't have a clue who has taken over their tired old swamp party.

So if Biden or Kamala or whoever has their hand up his back to make his lips move gets in office, it is going to be very, very entertaining to see what happens.

See, the mask is off the veil is lifted what we suspected over there is in full view right now--rioting, lawlessness, no law enforcement funding, tearing down of all monuments and defacing public and private property, getting in people's faces at any time especially during a pandemic, accosting people in their vehicles just trying to get home and pulling guns on them, painting on people's houses, this is all okay with the democrats.

Can't wait to see the plans for the country and containing the virus, especially during those violent riots it was all okay, no questions asked if you have COVID as to whether you were at a riot, but you sure are encouraged to be followed around on your cell phone and kicked out of a church parking lot with your windows up listening to a church service inside your car.

Bring Biden on. They had him in a little bricked up area with only local people around and he said that over 120 MILLION people were dead from COVID.

What a gem this guy is the dems have chosen. What a gem.

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studio10001

The 'hate' comes in part from continually calling the dems the party of hate. Name calling is a hateful hobby, as is projecting thoughts on to others for the purpose of villifiation. If you want to understand what someone thinks, you might want to ask them. If you tell them what they think, instead, the reader knows you never cared about any one else's opinion to begin with, and are interested in creating a bogey man instead.

What is repeated here daily by dems is that protesting is a right, but crime is not. Do you have some other dem source you would care to quote?

Here is what Joe has to say about it:

"Protesting such brutality is right and necessary," the former vice president said. "It's an utterly American response. But burning down communities and needless destruction is not. Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not."

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Annie Deighnaugh

I don't recall seeing one conservative say they hate anyone...

I think it's pretty hateful to be called the party of hate all the time. I think when Cowboys for trump say, "the only good democrat is a dead democrat" it sounds pretty hateful to me and the fact that the president retweeted it doesn't make it any better.

When you have a president who spends his days tweeting insult after insult and name calling the press, political leaders, judges, military leaders and so many more, who accuses, for example, joe scarborough of committing murder, and having his base cheer him on at his rallies for it all, that sounds pretty hate-filled to me.

When you have right wing extremist and white supremacist groups mowing down protesters with their cars and putting up nooses and making death threats against people of color, that sounds pretty hate-filled to me. And when you have US intel warning of the boogaloo group potentially targeting DC [https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/19/intel-report-warns-far-right-extremists-target-washington-dc-329771 ] that sounds pretty hate-filled to me.

So just because you can't recall it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



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elvis

This:

Name calling is a hateful hobby, as is projecting thoughts on to others for the purpose of villifiation. If you want to understand what someone thinks, you might want to ask them. If you tell them what they think, instead, the reader knows you never cared about any one else's opinion to begin with, and are interested in creating a bogey man instead.

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bob_cville

> I don't recall seeing one conservative say they hate anyone;

I have. Large groups came here to my town, marching, brandishing tiki torches, shouting slogans of hatred, attacking, assaulting and killing people who live here. They were here for what they described as the "Unite the Right" rally. And while there were several different groups represented, they were United by their hatred of various different groups that were different from them.

So while it is false to say that all conservatives are motivated and driven by hatred, it is true that all of these groups that are motivated and driven by hatred consider the Republican party to welcome them with open arms, as the broad umbrella happy to embrace and shelter hatreds of many stripes.

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jlhug

Interesting, a few conservatives have said they hate and all conservatives are labeled as haters. That just proves that the gap between how the liberals here describe conservatives and how they really are is big enough to drive the QE II through. Both the liberals and conservatives biases get in the way each trying to understand those who have a different point of view. Many either can’t see or won’t admit their bias even though others can see it.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I agree with what elvis highlighted, having been told so many times that the democrats are only acting out because hillary lost, no matter how many times and how many of us have expressed that it has *nothing* to do with hillary, and *everything* to do with trump.

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kidshop

https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2020/06/24/arrest-led-riot-madison-wisconsin-last-night/


This link is about the riots in Wisconsin from a few days ago with some tracing back to see what led up to it. Some of these links I can only find from right sources, but the y are well documented with videos and facts.


this is what you are encouraging and supporting either actively or passively.




studio: thanks for the info on Tiny. I’m glad they got him. I’ll read a bit more about that to see how he got in there. Did he sneak in, or was he a part of the organization of this zone? I don’t discriminate against terrorists, we need to get them all and not let them hide in plain sight.


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Iris GW

this is what you are encouraging and supporting either actively or passively.


Who is the "you" in this statement?

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studio10001

He was with a group that was travelling between protests, to the best of my understanding.

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kidshop

The ‘you’ refers to whoever is glorifying the criminals running the show, calling rioters ‘protestors’ and fanning flames of hate for our LE. The environment created is that anything goes in the name of BLM. And we are going to see more of more of this violence.

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jlhug

Describing the Democratic party as the “party of hate” isn’t saying you hate the Democratic party. It is saying that based on your observations, the Democratic party hates.

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studio10001

That is a pretty vague ' who', and I doubt refers to anybody on this site, but perhaps I have missed something. Do you have any particular post from a dem that leads you to think they promote 'anything goes?'

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studio10001

jlhug, you misunderstand - I am saying that readers find the need to repetitively label your opposition in this way to be a reflection of your own hatred. Is it your position that you are using a term of endearment?

etd.

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jlhug

Studio 10001 wrote and Elvis quoted it:


Name calling is a hateful hobby, as is projecting thoughts on to others for the purpose of villifiation. If you want to understand what someone thinks, you might want to ask them. If you tell them what they think, instead, the reader knows you never cared about any one else's opinion to begin with, and are interested in creating a bogey man instead.


If we could just ask what someone thinks and really listen to their response with an open mind instead of telling them what they think, it would go a long way to having good conversations and discussions. There are too many who try to do an impression of the Carnac the Magnificent and fail.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

If we could just ask what someone thinks and really listen to their response with an open mind instead of telling them what they think, it would go a long way to having good conversations and discussions.

Then please acknowledge what Trump critics have repeatedly explained on Hot Topics -- we accept that Hillary lost, and our criticisms of Trump are based on his actions in office, and his business history of fraud, including the illegal actions of his charitable foundation.

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HU-274840647

Are we assuming that the non hating conservatives are the same as Republicans? Does the right wing extend and then stop at conservatives ?

The words used do not convey exactly who is being talked about in the above brush strokes?

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maifleur03

Since the Trumpers apparently control the Republican party it does not take much to realize that the old conservative Republican party no longer exists.

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elvis

nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

If we could just ask what someone thinks and really listen to their response with an open mind instead of telling them what they think, it would go a long way to having good conversations and discussions.

Then please acknowledge what Trump critics have repeatedly explained on Hot Topics -- we accept that Hillary lost, and our criticisms of Trump are based on his actions in office, and his business history of fraud, including the illegal actions of his charitable foundation.

I believe that you are sincere, and also note that you can only speak for yourself. Nancy, you and I agree on little politically, but I can sincerely say that if more posters were like you, HT would be a vastly better place.

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elvis

Kidshop, I posted about the Madison riots a couple of days ago, and unsurprisingly, was ignored by the left here on HT. Probably because the actions of the rioters was indefensible. But, no one on the left condemned it. More denial...

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deegw

elvis

Kidshop, I posted about the Madison riots a couple of days ago, and unsurprisingly, was ignored by the left here on HT. Probably because the actions of the rioters was indefensible. But, no one on the left condemned it. More denial...

-----------------

I haven't seen anyone here support or defend violent riots and looting. Or support mass protests without masks. Choosing not to beat a dead horse is not the same as denial.

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jlhug

studio10001, I misunderstood.



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jlhug

Nancy_in_venice I have never claimed that anyone was angry that Hillary Clinton lost and Trump won. Ever since Trump first announced he was running for office, I've said he was about the worst candidate I could imagine. My opinion of him hasn't changed much since he's been President.


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Stan Areted

annie deighneaugh:

So just because you can't recall it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Because you cannot quote one conservative who said that they "hate" anyone, it means it exists only in your mind.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I have never claimed that anyone was angry that Hillary Clinton lost and Trump won.

Many conservatives and Republicans on Hot Topics do -- constantly.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“It is saying that based on your observations, the Democratic party hates.”

A political association cannot “hate” because it is not sentient.

It can espouse hateful policies.

It can be made up of individuals who are filled with hatred.

So saying “democrats are the Party of Hate” is either saying that the policies put forth by the Party are hateful or it is saying that the people are hateful.

Which is it? And if it refers to policies, why are the people (“Democrats”) mentioned rather than saying something like “Democratic Party policies are hateful”?

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cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

I do not think that not saying you "hate" means you don't. Hate is demonstrated through actions, behaviors, and what one accepts either passively or actively. People who vote for/support/defend/excuse Trump are demonstrating that they are willing to accept him with all his rhetoric, mean-spiritedness, and dishonesty. I also think that many here have either ignored or refused to accept what some of us who identify as liberal or left have repeated many times and which has been stated again in this thread. Gosh, that might lead someone to say that conservatives tend to lie about us. There have been many instances of conservatives saying that they have "never" said something, but have those people spoken up when someone says, "Democrats don't care as long as they win" or other such absurdities that can be said of many Republicans (Lindsey Graham, for one example) as well?

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jlhug

Miss Lindsey, my comment was poorly worded. I should have said "It is saying that based on your observations, members of the Democratic party hate"



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studio10001

Today is the first I have heard about the new riots, and I find the video of the organizer's arrest interesting. He carried a bat and a megaphone into a restaurant, and was arrested for disturbing the peace while armed. It strongly appears that he was inviting arrest, but also reminded me of this protest:

Granted, two different states, but Wisconsin is open carry as well - one guy w a bat and a megaphone vs a building full of armed protesters - one who, above, appears to BE a megaphone. One jerk w a bat gets arrested, w ensuing and predictable riots ( wisconsin is considered a flashpoint), but hundreds of jerks w rifles get to congratulate themselves, and nobody is harmed.

Madison has used arrests and tear gas on protestors as early as May 30. This new round of violence is in reaction to the arrest, and as aggressive as the guy was, he didn't touch anyone, and didn't threaten anyone. What do we think - was he more of a danger than the mob at the capitol? Would it serve to follow the president's advice to Mihigan and ' talk to them; work something out?'

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Thanks for the clarification jlhug, but now I find myself wondering why specify democrats?

Humans hate.

Regardless of political affiliation.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Because you cannot quote one conservative who said that they "hate" anyone, it means it exists only in your mind.

No, Stan. Just because conservatives may not specifically use the word "hate" doesn't mean they don't hate...in the same way the democratic leaders don't have to use the word "hate" for you to (incorrectly) conclude that they are the "party of hate". The hate can be seen in their actions or other words that demonstrate the hate they feel. "Jews will not replace us" may not use the word "hate" but the implication is clear.

Can you quote a democratic leader who said they "hate" anyone? I do remember that pelosi said she prays for trump...doesn't sound like hate to me.

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kidshop

Studio do you have links to that riot? My vague understanding is that those were people protesting at the capitol to allow business to reopen so they could work.


So they weren’t arrested for anything, were they disturbing the peace? Clearly, yelling in a policeman’s face isn’t illegal and we see a lot of that every night! And later that night I assume they did not burn something down and vandalize anything?


I don’t think talking works on the Wisconsin types of criminals. They want no consequences for their actions. Would you call the Michigan armed protestors criminals?

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studio10001

Whether they were disturbing the peace was my question! I would not refer to them as rioters, though. Their situation was handled with a different approach, and the outcome differed. You can find several articles using 'Michigan capitol protests'.

The issue in Madison became two fold, 1) the arrest of the organizer and

2) the subsequent riots based on the arrest.

I'm interested in your thoughts about the questions I asked in the previous post.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

elvis

6 hours ago

This:

Name calling is a hateful hobby...

———

I am not sure who elvis is quoting here.

What I am sure of, is there is one prominent member of one political party who absolutely excels at name calling. He takes pride in his ability to coin a hurtful nickname. His supporters applaud how “tough” he is for “fighting back” against the people who don’t serve his agenda.

Is his party the Party of Hate?

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kidshop

Studio, are you referring to asking if I have a post from a dem promoting anything goes.


no, no particular post but I have not seen much condemning of the criminal behavior. I guess that is what I want to see. Now in the past day or two, I have seen a tiny bit of speaking out. Even DC Mayor Bowser finally said something about a mob shouldn’t destroy statues . To me it seems no one will say anything negative about actions done under the banner of BLM, no matter if it breaks any rule or policy or law.

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studio10001

Well I have said it, and I've posted twice that Biden has said it, so now you know two people that thinks it is criminal.

No, the questions I meant were here:

'Madison has used arrests and tear gas on protestors as early as May 30. This new round of violence is in reaction to the arrest, and as aggressive as the guy was, he didn't touch anyone, and didn't threaten anyone. What do we think - was he more of a danger than the mob at the capitol? Would it serve to follow the president's advice to Mihigan and ' talk to them; work something out?'

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cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

I think you are not paying attention, kidshop. Democrats from Biden to Clyburn to Mayor Bottoms (of Atlanta) to IIRC almost every liberal here condemned the violence. The difference is that we are also asking conservatives and Republicans to also look at the 'why' of the peaceful protests and the roots of the anger many people of color justifiably feel.

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kidshop

OK, well the armed protestors did not break any laws. They are scary and intimidating, yes, and no one needs an assault rifle. They were protesting to be allowed to open up the economy, something they felt would be good for all, to be constructive not destructive. They didn’t shoot anyone or threaten to shoot anyone. As far as I know, these types of groups do not generally devolve into violence. There was one arrest outside, who did not resist arrest to my knowledge. All protestors left by 5 pm.

So are they more of a danger than Mr. Johnson? He was just 1 guy with a personal agenda. He did not harm anyone Someone called the police on him for disturbing the peace. Maybe the whole thing was a set up so they could riot later, I don’t know. Later people rioted and vandalized, and beat up a senator in his name. I think it fair to say his motivations were bad all around, not to further anti racism. IMO. The motivations of the armed mob were to open up the economy IMO.

no, the armed mob, ironically were not more of a danger, in my opinion.



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studio10001

See, I would have said the organizer was not more of a danger, since he was lone, but I essentially agree w you - neither used their weapons, both were disruptive in public, and no bystanders were harmed in either case. The arrest was not, on the face of it, about what Mr. Organizer did, but where he did it - I think. And 'the face of it' mattered - I will get to that in a bit.

While the Michigan protestors provided enough of a threat that senators donned bullet proof vests, no action was taken against them for disturbing the peace . They certainly qualified, under Michigan law. Had they been arrested, we might have seen a more violent protest later. Michigan let them have their say, they got their camera time, the president praised them as fine people, and they went home. They repeated this exercise three more times. Whitmer allowed the protests to occur without arresting anyone( I read one unverifiable rumor of the single arrest, and the local press reported none) - tickets were issued to those on the capitol steps for not maintaining proper distance by the fourth round. And that was that.

Mr. Johnson did not wield his big mouth in a gov't building, but in a private establishment that complained. Might he have been ticketed, as well? I feel the police were trying their best not to get themselves in hot water with how they took him in, but if they had given him a ticket, perhaps the tipping point would have had to wait for another day. Instead, there was mayhem - and NOW the mayor gets united on TV w community organizers.

There is another twist here - the final charge is extortion, not disturbing the peace. According to the FBI, the bar owner has accused him of yanking the chains of more than one business for a few days, attempting to get food and beer in exchange for not breaking their windows. Did other protesters know about his actions? Largely not, would be my guess based on the video and the result - those around him may well have had the same perception of his right to be a jerk as many had about the hundreds of armed protesters in Michigan The face of it looked equivalent, as we have agreed. And had the mayor been seen to be actively listening to them, there may not have been that void for him to have stepped into as PBM w Bullhorn. Ironically, she called the national guard on Wed, but the protests were peaceful that night, and they were not needed- giving the strong impression that there are protesters, and the things that feed off protesters, and then run away. The repeated reports in Madison are of small groups that break off from the protests to create damage, followed by days of peaceful protests.

This brings us back to how local authorities contain escalating tensions. I think that in almost every instance, direct force has led to increased violence and injury, where as direct government engagement with the issues, rather than the existence of the protests themselves, has led to de escalating tensions ( I am generalizing, admittedly). While the more mild approach does not make the protests go away, it allows for democracy in action - 4 armed mobs taking over the capitol steps over the course of the month was undoubtedly a better outcome than the destruction of property and attack on the Senator.

There is one additional comparison between Wisconsin and Michigan. Michigan was organized, and was performed as much for the cameras as the legislature. Wisconsin is not organized, and is screaming to be heard by local authorities, making the mayor's job that much more pressing. Maybe Madison cannot breach the gap for local govt to work w protestors, but if they don't attempt to join hands, they may well continue to cede their city to outside forces. From what I have been seeing, the criminal element that has leached on to this cause needs to be suffocated out, not provided w traction.

Sorry for the length; that is not at all where I thought I was going when I started typing.


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Ziemia(6a)

I have read comments here by "dems" condemning the criminal behavior. I have made them as well.

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kidshop

Keep condemning!


these delusional people think they should be free to do whatever they like, the other people be damned. Because of slavery? Nahhh, Because of thuggery!


https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/protests/demonstrators-take-back-streets-protest-police-aggression/65-0686c8e8-2fb0-49a4-96ff-9ce514307f2e


Note the last line of the article, “ DC Protests said they plan to continue marching until their ultimate goal is realized: abolishing the police department entirely.”

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kidshop

Last night in portland

https://twitter.com/black_c_patriot/status/1277069257793130497?s=21


I’ll look for news links on the various riots too. Twitter is not my favorite.


https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2019/06/downtown-portland-protests-involving-antifa-right-wing-demonstrators-escalate-into-civil-disturbance.html


apparently this happens pretty much every day in Portland. The riot was worse Friday. This is our youth....


https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-city-council-members-private-security-detail-death-threats

security and safety for some, but not for all.





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studio10001

That last one is an unpleasant surprise. The council members getting death threats are those that called out for defunding. I would not trust my security detail, were I them.

Portland looked noisy, but did not look like a riot until the police attacked. I am going to keep mentioning this. The DC protestors are moronically gathering steam from having been shot at last week. What I am not reading is what local gov't is doing - they cannot remain silent, allow the police to become the physical barrier to hyped up ignorance/ anger, and seriously expect the problem to go away. Can they?

You didn't mention Atlanta, but I want to add something I read today -


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studio10001

J.

@_lovejak

·Jun 13

Imagine pleading for the rioting, looting, and protesting in the name of an unarmed Black man to stop, only to turn around and murder another unarmed Black man. That, to me, is a message.

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studio10001

J.

@_lovejak

·Jun 13

Black people make up over half of Atlanta’s population. It’s only logical that the police would be inhumanely violent toward its citizen. They tear gassed a literal baby tonight. That is a different type of evil.


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studio10001

J.@_lovejak

·Jun 13

I don’t wanna hear anything along the lines of, “Stop destroying your own neighborhood.”
Atlanta PD murdered Rayshard Brooks, as we are still trying to come to terms with the murder of George Floyd.
Murdering Rayshard was their message. Let the ashes be ours. Burn it all down.

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studio10001

J@_lovejak

·Jun 13

The Montgomery Bus Boycotts cost the city $3,000 a day. The only way white people and establishments feel threatened is when you harm their revenue. Burn it down. Make them rebuild. Maybe then they’ll understand that a life is more valuable than the businesses they protect.

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studio10001

This young woman is simultaneously talking about destroying it all, and is studying to get her JD and Masters in Public Policy.

So, here, eventually, is my question: I don't think They are all just thugs. They are much messier than that. And yes, this is our youth. Armed w twitter and video evidence and angry energy from what they are learning, and dragging the criminals, the politicians, and the homeless in their wake, thinking they have nothing to lose. Can they be forced to care that anyone condemns them?

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kidshop

Scary!

New York yesterday

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8468513/Large-crowd-hurling-glass-bottles-NYPD-cruiser-responding-shots-fired-call.html#

Tampa ambush on police from a few days ago


https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/25/the-media-swept-a-massive-police-ambush-in-tampa-bay-under-the-rug/


defending of the emancipation statue by black elders


https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/27/black-community-elders-shutdown-shame-anti-statue-protest/


studio, that girl wants no police and no prisons. Delusional. All the above links show what happens with no police. She is the epitome of what is wrong with the BLM cult. There I said it.





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ronminsouthga

Who is funding BLM and antifa? That is what you should be investigating.

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jlhug

Studio10001, I suggest that you volunteer to have your business and home destroyed if you feel it is the right thing for the protestors and rioters to do.

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Ziemia(6a)

Studio: "Can they be forced to care that anyone condemns them?"

Does this equate to "...you feel it is the right thing for the protestors and rioters to do." ?

########

Observing, analyzing ≠ condoning

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kidshop

This is the STL couple who protected their property from unlawful protestors. I think Trump posted this video, and media has their slant lol. They live in a gated community, the unlawful group broke through the gate to get in to march to the mayors house. 2nd amendment my friends. Btw, I used to be anti gun, but not anymore. With no police, people have to protect themselves. And my goodness the mayor’s neighborhood is s w a n k y!


just because you think you are. a ‘Protestor ’ doesn’t mean you get to do as you please. Laws are a thing for now.


https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/jun/29/couple-draw-guns-crowd-heading-st-louis-mayors-hom/?news-national


eta: link to interview of man with rifle. Really interesting things in here. The mob who was marching because their names and addresses were published are now posting the couples every info online to they can be harassed. The mob is in charge. Resistance is futile.


https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/interview-man-with-rifle-during-st-louis-protest/63-eeb61c07-4adc-4df0-a7d0-000d40a89e78



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studio10001

I'll have to go back and read some of these links, but wanted to say that Ziemia is correct; I do not condone this - and have said so on this thread. I am asking what I feel to be a legitimate question, should anybody have a view. I don't think tsking is an answer, I don't think force against large numbers to punish a few is a good answer - I am asking if anyone thinks that mace and clubs are the complete solution to the riots and protests, or if anyone has an idea that they think would be a better response - and why.

I'm not convinced that the young woman I quoted knows what she wants in the long term - she has been triggered, for sure, but annihilism and Public Policy are an odd mix - whether her posts are things she will act on, or just gut reactions that she feels need to be heard, I couldn't say, but I think she could be representative of some of the thinking behind the destruction. If your kid were acting out their grief in this way, what would you do?

Anyway. Going back to see what they ruined last night.


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studio10001

Theatre saved the memorial? Talk about thinking outside the box. The rest of the links are depressing, for sure. I love that that group got ' on the boards' to temper the protest, though.

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Ann

I haven't read the thread yet, but the % increase in lawlessness in recent weeks is staggering. Many a blue city is a very bad situation right now!!!

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Ann

I made it about halfway through so far. Stan, I have to raise my hand about using the word hate. Several times on HT, I've said I hate seeing people kneel during our anthem. I admit it, I simply hate seeing that.

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studio10001

If this is where we yet again degenerate into partisan bashing in lieu of discussion about the topic, I now leave you to it. Thanks for the thread, kidshop.

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kidshop

Studio I am going to think about what you said if it were my kid. I’ll be back.

I am putting all this out here, people can draw their own conclusion why this is happening and where it is happening. My opinion is that is is not about Mr. Floyd.

I love the history actors! My favorite places of all time are Mount Vernon, Monticello, and colonial Williamsburg. I hope those don’t get burned down or closed. They are probably next on the list. They are living history and endlessly fascinating.

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kidshop

St. Louis over the weekend. Now that they are in the news, we’ll be seeing more from there.

this has a religious bent, but violent protestors did attack people praying and protecting the statue.

https://www.westernjournal.com/st-louis-protesters-clash-catholics-fight-tear-statue-citys-namesake/


ETA https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/06/29/st-louis-circuit-attorney-claims-peaceful-protesters-were-met-by-a-violent-assault-right-to-protest-was-chilled/

picture of gate at the bottom of this.


peaceful, right.



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Ann

I've been wanting to see that gate. Thanks for that link, kidshop. So much for the original story that it was just an open gate the protesters walked through.

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kidshop

The propaganda is strong!

Back to the terrorist nation of CHOP. This is really unbelievable. Watch the footage here from the latest murder:


https://mobile.twitter.com/MarcusKulik/status/1277571834704084994


I’m not sure why a 14 year old and 16 year old are men, but that is how they are referred to. They were in the white Jeep.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8471219/One-man-dead-wounded-Seattle-CHOP-zone-shooting.html


This is your America.


studio, I really think the real peaceful protestors are very few at this point. Their message is lost. Gone, having been taken over by uncontrollable violent mobs. They probably had similar goals to start, but at each escalation they weren’t stopped and that attracted more and more bad people who saw an opportunity to get away with mass chaos. Rules don’t apply here to anyone under the BLM banner. Free for all for the socially disturbed!


The only thing that will stop it is a show of force. Weakness will draw more, as you can see. I don’t have an answer how to be better going forward. Mob rule is not better.


I cannot imagine my kids doing anything like this. I do have 1 in college and 1 in hs. Rules and laws apply to us, and we do not wish to harm or hate anybody. If by chance their father was a criminal, I would never refer to him as a breadwinner as the young lady in the above twitter feed did.


perhaps that is a fundamental difference.






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Ann

Kidshop, I agree about the peaceful protesters being very few at this point!

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Stan Areted

I'm not sure there were very many at all.

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Kathy

Do you really think all these protests aren’t peaceful? We only hear about the ones that are newsworthy. It’s a shame we aren’t seeing all the peaceful people protesting Police brutality.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2020/06/03/map-protests-wake-george-floyds-death/5310149002/


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lurker111

I would doubt that any of them are peaceful. However, the one here was peaceful, because no one showed up. Just two black kids reading from a cell phone. They weren't locals. About 20 people listened for about 10 minutes and walked away. You really couldn't call it a protest...Just insanity read from a script.

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Ziemia(6a)

Guns protecting property is supported by some of our Trump supporters. As is brushing all protesters with the brush of rioter if anything gets mussed during a protest.

(Thought some of our Trump supporters were strongly against doxxing.)

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lurker111

Guns protecting property is supported by some of our Trump supporters.

And the Bill of Rights. Stop defending the rioting protests. This has to be stopped now! The left is crazy. Murders in Chop, killing cops, destroying cities...The left must be stopped before this gets any worse. The party has turned against their own country and is turning people into raging maniacs and terrorists. You can't deny that they have been brainwashed and conditioned.

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Ziemia(6a)

All that vitriol....

You are defining ALL protests as riots. Which is throwing a huge blanket over America.

How many arrests were made by the police during this event - they were there.... How many police showed up?

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Stan Areted

Ziemia:

Guns protecting property is supported by some of our Trump supporters. As is brushing all protesters with the brush of rioter if anything gets mussed during a protest.


States have different laws.

Let me pose a question:

Say these violent thugs come to YOUR house, screaming, threatening, and breaking down your door--they've done it to businesses, they were on the property of the couple, having broken into a private neighborhood, so are you going to let them come in, stand by or cower in the corner while thugs take and destroy your property and just hope they don't blow you to kingdom come or thrust a knife in your gut, or kick and beat you in the head until you are on life support and comotose?

By all means, don't arm yourself, but don't tell the rest of us we can't protect our lives when people come into our homes with weapons.

You don't KNOW if they're there to "just steal" or "just destroy" everything you've worked for, or they're going to do worse to you, your family, or friends, or pets.

Pets. Guess that will be the only thing that liberals will care about--when the thugs start beating and killing and stringing up the kitties, Sebastian and Aristotle.

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Stan Areted

lurker111--the "protesters" here are inept, barely educated young millennials with loud, nasty mouths and a desire to be an online presence. They speak to cameras, write letters and put out tweets that are grammatically incorrect, confusing, and spewing nastiness about generalities of accusations and problems that don't exist. They have no idea what they're doing; I suspect they are those latchkey kids that have been smoking dope, left to their own devices, did poorly in school, and starting coloring their hair and piercing parts to get attention. Still are.

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heri_cles

Most Republicans I know watch Fox News daily and have been indoctrinated with absurd Right Wing ideology. I feel bad for them but it is what it is and there is no point talking politics very much with them.

I asked one friend from Chicago (who is a Fox News junkie) hypothetically which side of the Civil War he would have fought for . The question gave him pause. He finally said he hates Illinois ( a Fox talking point) but likes the suburb where he lives (98% white) and he wasn't sure.

Fox News is promoting a new Confederacy of sorts...regional hatred, racial segregation, white power,..

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Ziemia(6a)

""Say these violent thugs come to YOUR house, screaming, threatening, and breaking down your door-"

Not happening - you even say it's not happening.

Though, this IS what the cops did in the case of Breana Taylor .

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Kathy

The protests are being sabatoged by Nationalist and extremist elements who don’t want to see peaceful protests. They tried to scare people away in our city for the BLM March and some even showed up marching with their guns. In spite of that the March was peaceful.

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lurker111

lol

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Stan Areted

Hey, where are the protests for the CHOP "security" killing two teenagers?

No Starbucks coffee to pick up before donning a backpack, putting in a nose ring and showing up to protest and riot?

What hypocrisy!


Lord of the Flies, brought to you by the Democrat Party, working for years to nurture thugs and lawlessness, and rewarded when brought to fruition.

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kidshop

Wow, there is no way I can catch up from the last few days. So much mayhem, and violence and death.

the more the lawlessness is allowed to continue, the more it will increase.

it’s increasing.


I took it in foster puppy who did not have have an off switch! She found a great family and now I can rest. That was much more fun and life affirming than following the news.

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paprikash

Seems to me the Republicans are against crime. The democrats are against statues.

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Gizmo

paprikash

Seems to me the Republicans are against crime. The democrats are against statues.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Crime in the Trump admin is running rampant - but it's cute you think Republicans are against crime


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zmith

Republicans might oppose blue collar crime, but they seem to be a-ok with white collar crime and military crimes.

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cait1

I thought CHAZ got the CHOP because they protested at the mayor's house

Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan has been very tolerant of the city’s Capitol
Hill Organized Protest, or CHOP. For weeks now, CHOP has squatted on
land it doesn’t own and violated the constitutional
rights guarantees of the 30,000
Americans who live on that land 24/7....

Earlier today CHOP took its protest straight to the mayor’s house. The Blaze reports Mayor Durkan was upset...

So it’s fine with Mayor Durkan if you are subjected to threats and
have your free speech and other constitutional
rights guarantees violated for days
and weeks on end. She has allowed this condition to fester for thousands
of Seattle residents.

But show up to protest on her doorstep? That’s going too far.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/06/29/seattle-mayor-durkan-very-upset-that-chops-summer-of-love-has-landed-on-her-doorstep-n588111

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Lulu Smith

Gun Violence surging in cities.

For many major U.S. cities, this year has been marked by bullets and bloodshed.

Over 1,500 people have been shot in Chicago, almost 900 in Philadelphia, and more than 500 in New York City so far in 2020 — all up significantly from the same time last year (1,018 in Chicago, 701 in Philadelphia and 355 in New York).

The surge in shootings has been particularly painful for communities of color, which have disproportionately endured the weight of the COVID-19 crisis, the economic recession and social unrest following thedeath of George Floyd in police custody in Minneapolis in May.

In New York City, after the number of shooting victims more than doubled from June 2019 to this June, every person who has been shot this July, nearly 100 in total, has been a member of the minority community, according to the police department. And in June, 97 percent of the shooting victims were minorities, the department said.

In Chicago, where minority communities have long struggled with deadly gun violence, shootings have increased76 percent from the same time last year, with nearly all the bloodshed concentrated in the city's predominantly Black and brown communities on the South and West Sides.

Among the victims was a7-year-old girl, Natalia Wallace, who was fatally shot at a family gathering over the Fourth of July weekend on the West Side.

From January to May this year, almost75 percent of homicide victims were Black, according to the Louisville Police Department.

In Philadelphia, more than 30 people were shot over the Fourth of July weekend and 23 were shot within a 24-hour period. The city has seen a nearly 30 percent jump in homicides from the same time in 2019.

Atlanta had a 20 percent spike in shootings from the same time in 2019, with one of the youngest victims being an8-year-old girl, Secoriea Turner, who was shot while riding in a car with her mother over Fourth of July weekend. The violence comes amid unrest from the police killing of Rayshard Brooks, a Black man who was shot by a white office in a Wendy's parking lot on June 12.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gun-violence-surging-cities-hitting-communities-color-hardest-n1233269

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Stan Areted

Well, some people certainly show us who they are when they know there are no consequences for their crimes!

Don't worry, I'm sure liberals can talk their way out being killed, robbed, or raped by an angry, selfish, stealing gun toting "victim of circumstances."

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bry911

So this is only the fourth or fifth time that violent crime rates have gone down while murder rates went up. This is pretty unusual and it is even more drastic this year than in any previous year.

One common denominator in most of those years is increased unemployment. Most of the increase is coming from domestic violence incidents with much of the rest coming from gang violence. Criminal justice experts are saying both of these are related to the pandemic.

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Stan Areted

Nope, too many people making way more on unemployment than working.

I know people that can't fill jobs because of people getting around $1000 a week NOT working.

It's not the pandemic, it's EXCUSED murder, arson, theft, looting, destruction, all sanctioned by DEMOCRAT mayors and encouraged by the DEMOCRAT party for people to get out and commit all sorts of crimes under the banner of BLM and there are no consequences.

Murder--shooting children, shooting up neighborhoods, shooting at cars with people in them and killing them--that's MURDER, that's civil unrest inspired by and brought to you by the DNC.

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bry911

It's not the pandemic, it's EXCUSED murder, arson, theft, looting, destruction, all sanctioned by DEMOCRAT mayors and encouraged by the DEMOCRAT party for people to get out and commit all sorts of crimes under the banner of BLM and there are no consequences.

Are you saying that protests are the reason for the huge spike in domestic violence?

Sure, just like we all know that babies are made in a magical place and delivered by storks. That has just as many facts behind it as your theory.

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Nana H

Thought it very interesting that a Kaiser Foundation poll late June showed Biden was trusted more on law and order than Trump; 51% to 41%

"When asked which candidate they trust to do a better job of dealing with
various issues, more voters say they trust Joe Biden than Donald Trump
in a variety of areas. This includes a roughly ten percentage point gap
in favor of Biden on which candidate they trust to do a better job
maintaining law and order (51% trust Biden vs. 41% trust Trump)
"

https://www.kff.org/report-section/kff-health-tracking-poll-june-2020-social-distancing-delayed-health-care-and-a-look-ahead-to-the-2020-election/

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bry911

Here is the difference between us. When I hear there is an increase in Covid-19 or violent crime or anything else, I look to see why. Even when I am pretty sure I know, I still look. Often that investigation changes my assumptions, often in ways I don't like. Some others see a fact and immediately assign whatever cause is convenient for them.

Intimate partner murders are the most common type, followed by close relatives, household members, then gang violence, and finally unassociated murder.

Protest related murders would see an increase in unassociated murders, but that doesn't appear to be the case. There is a rise in domestic violence and the associated murders. That increase seems unlikely related to people making more on unemployment than they would working. Usually stresses increase domestic violence and making more money by not working seems an unlikely stresser.

There is also a rise in gang violence. There could be a relationship between those things and the protests but it is far more likely that the economics of drug trades is the cause.

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Ann

Stan: "It's not the pandemic, it's EXCUSED murder, arson, theft, looting, destruction, all sanctioned by DEMOCRAT mayors and encouraged by the DEMOCRAT party for people to get out and commit all sorts of crimes under the banner of BLM and there are no consequences."


Bry: "Are you saying that protests are the reason for the huge spike in domestic violence?"

I think Stan might be saying exactly what Stan said. It's excused crime. It's being allowed under the banner of BLM protests. Law enforcement is being instructed to not enforce the law by these Dem mayors. Lawlessness is being ignored and being allowed to happen with those committing crimes of all sorts not fearing penalty and, in many cases, not realizing penalty.

I think Stan's comment was very clear and I certainly agree wholeheartedly with it. I get you may want to make a different point, Bry, but why bother trying to "attach" it to what Stan said? Why not let your different point stand independently of the clear point/opinion made by Stan? What in Stan's words led you to believe he was talking about a huge spike in domestic violence when Stan said "murder, arson, theft, looting, destruction". While, sadly, domestic violence can result in murder at times, the categories Stan discussed are largely unrelated to "domestic violence".

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lurker111

Straw man.

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bry911

Were you asking if I could look up straw man for you? Because nothing I said is a straw man.

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bry911

"I think Stan might be saying exactly what Stan said. It's excused crime. It's being allowed under the banner of BLM protests."

No one here is excusing BLM crime, but crime has gone down! Only a few crimes have gone up and those crimes, the ones mentioned in the OP, seem mostly unrelated to BLM.

So the protests may have led to increases in specific crimes, which is a point I will concede once you bring up those crimes, but you can't say they are the cause of unrelated crimes and you can't say they are responsible for the overall increase in crime, because crime went down.

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NOWAY2Biden

Thanks to Mayor Sylvester Turner, Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo and Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg, Houston's crime rate is skyrocketing.

https://abc13.com/murders-in-houston-on-track-to-hit-5-year-high/6307779/?fbclid=IwAR3iJpMZPWj1kIr00bnUPCN5NLGSVU3tGqbHoHoi47Kk9S_O3ebdxBecRk0

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