Could you start clean like this, and move windows as needed?

Where do the doorways lead?

I'll be honest, not a fan of any of these. The breakfast nook is ridiculously tight to seat an entire family. Will there be another kitchen table? Do you envision eating as a family at your island? Also, where do all these doorways lead?

In #1, I don't like having a WO right next to a doorway and your kitchen is sizeable enough that it can be avoided. All your workspaces seem disjointed. But I'm sure the pros will chime in with how that looks.

Option 2 is marginally better than #1, but it seems you still have a WO on the sink wall, unless that was an oversight and needs to be corrected. The island is too small to comfortably and properly sit 4 people there.

Option 3 is ok, better than the first 2, but again I see two spots for WO. I think your sink on the outer wall is in the direct line of different walking spots and will become a bit of a bottleneck. Does the pantry have to stay like you have it drawn?

You mention an Option 4 but I do not see a picture.

Thanks @PPF.. I have added Overall plan to indicate where all the doors are leading to. It is not possible to change the window locations now.

@megs1030

The nook is mostly for kids to do homework while I am working close in the kitchen or grab a quick bite there or on the island. Formal Dining room is right off the kitchen and there is also an option to put a bigger kitchen table between mudroom and sunroom.

First, I love that you‘ll walk under the stairs to the living areas from the foyer, I love little details like that.

It would seem weird to be at the sink with the end of a wall right behind your back, for the pantry. The whole arrangement seems a little disjointed.

Can you move the pantry where the snack station is, and the dining room door to the kitchen over to the right?

How exactly do you pull a chair out from the table in the breakfast nook to get in or out?

Okay, instead of it being open, I'd build it with a door and make it about 5x5'. Then I'd change the whole layout. I'm not a pro, but there are tons on here who I know will chime in and propose a better option than the ones you've presented.

The pantry in that location has to go. It’s hogging the most functional space.

Since construction is so far along, I would do a variation of option 3, which switches the prep sink and clean-up sinks, m/l. Your elements are not in proportion, so the island looks too small for clean-up and primary prep, but if the sink is 30", then you would have at least 39" of prep space to the left. The smaller sink can be centered under the window (which is in a strange place). You'd have the option of prepping by either sink.

The fridge could be recessed into the pantry, if you have a standard-depth model, or counter and base cabinets could be made deeper, to match the depth of the fridge box. I'd decrease the depth of the island to 4' (from 4'6") to allow more space in the traffic aisle behind it.

If you do not have the "Coffe [sic] & Snack 15" x 7' " the person sitting on the watercloset can have a better view of the kitchen . . . and vice versa.

@bpath

Did not quite understand the comment. From the

foyer to come towards the kitchen, second floor has to start somewhere. There isn't an HP closet under the stairs :D

@vinmarks

I am thinking of a small banquet, not the chair and table as arranged now, like this -

https://www.houzz.com/photos/cobalt-cool-kitchen-transitional-kitchen-st-louis-phvw-vp~32175364

@mama goose_gw zn6OH

Thanks a lot, your input is always very insightful. My bad about the window location, it is further along the wall. The refrigerator is integrated and will be counter depth. Will explore swapping fridge and stove as well.

@Mark Bischak, Architect

I did not understand the suggestion.

Mark, do you really think someone using the toilet is not going to close the door? Or, at least anyone over the age of 4? I close the door to my master bath when I'm answering nature's call, and I'm the only one using the room.

moosical mama, I adjusted for the window, but I wasn't sure if the measurements were inside or outside (the walls). Here's a grid of the plan I posted:

Thanks, @mama goose_gw zn6OH

All the measurements are for the finished inside walls.

And my 4 years old insists on locking the door even when he knows he will need assistance, making me knock and bang for a while :D. So I am sure we will not have that particular issue.

I think there is a slim chance of someone using the toilet and not closing the door, but I think there is a greater chance of a pet or child opening the door while someone is using the bathroom; and chances are the bathroom door will be left open so everyone in the view cone will be able to see Kohler's finest.

I’d suggest making the ‘nook’ a 3 sided pantry and try to use those windows along the outside corner walls. Then you get a huge open kitchen with lots of natural light.

thinkdesignlive has a good idea. I did a couple of quick variations, using the original island-only plan. The one on the left uses the window from the nook over the sink, and an extra window on the cooktop wall. It makes the hood the focal point from the LR, and keeps the island in the original orientation. The fridge is near the living areas and pantry, but not near the formal DR. Clean-up is in the middle of the work triangle.

The plan on the right puts the fridge closer to the DR, with a separate clean-up zone. I added one window to the sink wall, but a fourth window could be added, since there are no windows on the cooktop wall in this version (inset at top). In that case uppers could be added to the cooktop wall. The island is turned to make prep more efficient, but it can't be more than 6' wide, and only if the opening between the kitchen and DR is made wider.

And if absolutely nothing in the structure can be changed, not even toilet switched with sink in the bathroom, here is the view cone. On the slight chance that someone forgets to lock the bathroom door, and someone else opens it while someone else is in the kitchen, only those in the blue circle, facing the bathroom door, would have a view of the poor unfortunate soul on the throne--but probably everyone in the house would hear the scream. ;)

LMAO around the throne convos. It'snot going to be an issue, I have seen numerous houses here with similar layout and it works. Also, the shower can be flipped to be on the sink side so the throne is nicely tucked behind the door. Then only people walking in the house might get a good "Show" :p . Following is a picture of the same layout, of view from the kitchen towards the entrance.

I like the idea of using nook as pantry, might still be able to make that change. In that option, can also add a small peninsula towards the dining room wall to serve as a hutch.

It is also reflecting one of my inspiration photos -

https://www.houzz.com/photos/from-outdated-to-gorgeous-scott-s-valley-transitional-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~149361904

But I am wondering about the amount of natural light I might lose with that. The nook and windows are at the back of house with southwest exposure and would provide lot more sunlight and a good view than the windows on the other wall, which would just be looking at the neighbor's walls.

Also, the kitchen size with this configuration becomes huge, almost doubling the number of cabinets, + countertops. That would be a big impact on the kitchen budget.

I dont have the ability to draw out this idea right now so will try my best to express it in words.

Turn the walk in pantry 90 degrees so you would walk past the door to the pantry as you enter the dining room. The depth of the pantry would be reduced from 10" to 8'. Doing this would create a space for either an U, L or galley kitchen that extends to the outside wall of the room on the right of the floor plan. The pantry could be changed to L shaped shelving. I have an L shaped pantry that is 5' deep and 4'6" wide and it is amazing how much it holds. The U, L or galley shaped kitchen area would be similar to the layout above but it would have a smaller footprint which would be easier on the kitchen budget yet it would still create an area that would allow a for very efficient arrangement of the frig, sink and stove top. I would suggest stacking the wall oven and microwave to save space. I don't know what the window sill height is in the nook but perhaps the snack, coffee, drinks cabinets and counter could be put here. That would keep the light and view and moving it there would allow space for a slightly larger island. Either a square or rectangular island that runs the opposite direction from the one in the diagram above might fit the space better. Island the Islands can be great homework and project areas. Hope these ideas are helpful. Good luck

Also, the kitchen size with this configuration becomes huge, almost
doubling the number of cabinets, + countertops. That would be a big
impact on the kitchen budget.

This is how the cabinetry in the new plan, with the pantry moved to the nook, corresponds to the cabinetry in the first plan you posted. Colored rectangles are equal in each plan. You actually have fewer cabinets (yellow overlap on blue). There is more shelving in the pantry, but that can be off-set by the savings of omitting the yellow cabinet run. The biggest difference will be the island counter top--8sf of stone.

If you're considering a peninsula at the DR entry, I'd move the wall ovens over beside the fridge, so there is clear space between the range and peninsula--but that extra counter and cabinet will also impact the budget.

Actually, I would think of swapping Fridge and Stove so the stove is closer to the pantry. Fridge, oven, Micro, Coffee station then can all move to the other wall.

I will take all these various options to my KD and see what she has to say as well and try to get an idea of pricing.

thanks a lot for amazing input as always @mama goose_gw zn6OH

@csgs

Thanks for the suggestions, I know there is enough space for two shallow shelves or L shelf in the pantry and would be doing so.

In your suggestion, you are asking to run the pantry along the 8 ft wall dividing dining and kitchen? I thought of doing that earlier, but it would eat up a lot in the island space. where would that start? It would either have to be shallow or start at more than 4 ft from the outer wall. Maybe I am not understanding correct.

Yes, see what you mean. Mama goose's first plan with the pantry in the nook and an L shape perimeter kitchen and a generous island is very practical. I would still suggest stacking the micro and wall oven to save space. Also since the wall with the stove and wall oven doesn't have a view perhaps you could eliminate one window on that wall and increase the windows on the sink wall that faces south. You could put some open shelves on the wall next to the stove. Lots of those on Houzz. Would be attractive and cheaper than cabinets. You could also put a small window in the pantry and a glass door on the pantry. Good luck.

Using the "nook" area for a walk-in pantry is really a bad idea. Why block out all that natural light in the middle of the wall for storage that you don't want to see? Think about what you actually need to store and see if a tall reach-in pantry with pullout shelves would work. Or find a spot on an interior wall for the pantry. And either make the "nook" larger to accommodate a good-sized seating area, or replace it with a row of windows.

What are you planning to use the yellow highlighted area for?

The other idea I had would be to capture the nook space as an outdoor closet which would allow you to continue the run of cabinetry all the way to the sunroom corner. The island could then shift down to the right (assuming you like the idea of shallow pantry cabinets with doors running along the wall that separates the foyer/dining). Then run maximum windows over the sink wall - not just one dinky little window. That could offset the light/view issues by closing up the nook and utilizing it from the outside.

@lyfia

For now, it will be empty so kids can freely run around without bumping into furniture. 3/4 years down the line, that is designated kitchen table location. By then they would have other space for play and work. Also, I would be able to reclaim that nook for a morning coffee spot.

@Diana Bier Interiors, LLC

You are right about losing the light, it is a big concern to lose windows on that back southwest exposed wall. The other outside wall, which currently houses the pantry, faces neighbour's wall and would not get as much light or view.

Or something like this which puts prep by the window:

But I’d personally prefer this:

Edited to add wall ovens could go far right of cooktop and this is a variation of one of mama's....

Actually, I would think of swapping Fridge and Stove so the stove is
closer to the pantry. Fridge, oven, Micro, Coffee station then can all
move to the other wall.

I'm not too sure about the peninsula, but that line-up would work, especially if the cabinetry is moved into the nook/pantry far enough to accommodate the cooktop.
Both fridge and ovens would have landing space, and coffee would be convenient to DR. Windows could stay in original locations:

The second drawing by Think/Design/Live has the best layout.

I understand most people here prefer shallow pantries and open concept, but I really would like a walking pantry to stow away all the appliances, big pots, woks and Costco items. Not too hung up on the Nook for a table, but I am wary of losing on all the light coming from there.

I tried to do IKEA drawings with both plans to get an idea of how it might look like. And yo are right @mama goose_gw zn6OH, the price for cabinets is approx same with both.

And the other suggested version -

Moosical Mom on your IKEA drawing you show a door in the breakfast nook. If there is a door, how are you going to fit a table and have room to walk out the door?

I like thinkdesignlive’s last drawing. I have pantry cabinets with roll out drawers that hold my large appliances. I don’t like the builder’s options at all.

I agree with love2browse about the door in the nook. That's going from bad to worst.

And if this is a new build, then why can't the builder accommodate a walk-in pantry on an interior wall? I can't believe that your kitchen designer is happy with that configuration.

Think design live’s plan is the one I’d love to cook in!

we have shallow pantry cabinets and love them. So practical. We put our big pots, woks, etc either in drawers or the lazy Susan. This works well also. With think design live’s solution you have room for a lot of drawers. You could even consider extra deep cpunters with extra deep drawers along one or both perimeter walls. We added 2” to one counter. Doesn’t sound like a lot but feels more spacious.

Oh wait - that’s a door in the nook? Yeah that will just be an entry/exit space. No seating at all.

Honestly, if you are insistent on a walk in pantry and you can’t change the footprint - this layout by mama is the best. You could create a wide open wall from dining to kitchen (where I highlighted in red) and you get the deepest island. To offset the loss of light by closing in the nook you have to do the widest windows possible where mama shows.

And as for a homework station you could set up a desk on the wall where the tub/shower is shown. It will be the next natural dumping ground spot past the mudroom and still within eyes/ears of the kitchen.

I don’t care for the walk in pantry in the nook. It means that the view from the front entry door is of the pantry entrance/wall. Flow feels awkward. I prefer thinkdesignlive’s second drawing, although I know you prefer a walk in pantry. Depending on Costco and appliance item sizes, they may fit well and be more accessible. Have you measured everything to determine your true needs? Good luck! I know this is a challenging process!

So much more inviting to come in the front door or down the stairs, into the foyer, turn to head to the kitchen and family room, and see the nook (whether a breakfast nook or two chairs), than a pantry door that might have been left open.

A reach-in pantry allows you to use and easily access every inch of space, holding as much as a walk-in with no awkward corners.

Design live's second drawing.

thank you all for amazing suggestions and ideas, I sure have a lot to discuss with my KD :). pantry is a matter of preference, and I would be happier with the walkin.

After all the suggestions, discussions, I am still leaning towards the earlier suggestion made by @mama goose_gw zn6OH, as it seems best lit and right size to me. I would try to get the kitchen window moved a bit to left or get it bigger so it is more in kitchen than on the side for balance.

Upon visualization, I prefer the combined room option less, there are fewer windows overall and a very big open kitchen that would need more cleanup and frequently

The reason I asked about the yellow area is because it seems like you are planning a lot of table or counter seating and a large amount of square footage is used for that. If you will have a table there, the nook, island seating, and the dining room that is a lot of seating. Could you maybe use that area too for the kitchen space?

Not really Lyfia - the traffic flow from the entry would fight with that. In fact, I'd suggest cutting that island back a bit (in the last mama plan you prefer) as it creates a pinch point especially when chairs are being used. It really shouldn't go past the entry opening from the foyer.

@thinkdesignlive

Yes, it was too big, on part of my laziness. Just picked Ikea island and put it there, it will be sized accordingly.

Also, I tried to expand on your idea and discussing this with my KD. This gave me a reach-in pantry which is deep enough for appliances, pots etc. -

Sorry you really need to let your KD work for you. That is not something I would do in a new construction space.

I don't understand why you have a sink in the island, or why an island shaped like that would be a good idea? Take the sink out, install lower drawers and store your pots and pans in there. Place your small appliances in those drawers as well. You have plenty of storage for all those things without having to store them in your walk in pantry.

It's a job and will take time, but I would sit down and map out where every dish, utensil, pot, etc, will go in your new kitchen. That exercise will save you before you make a mistake.

I think it is too tight for you to have an island and cabinets/pantry on all walls. That appears to be 3ft in the last drawing around the island and makes it oddly shaped. A 2ft reach in pantry will handle pots/appliances etc. and protrude less and waste less space as it doesn't need the space to step as a step-in pantry does.

I have no issues with having a sink on the island. It can be really helpful when you have multiple helpers or have someone doing dishes while another cooks, but you need space around it and having it on a short narrow area means you'll likely have water running down the back and splashing onto the floor there unless very careful every time.