Stop saying "rubber bullets" they are BLUNT FORCE ROUNDS

THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

"Rubber bullets" is a euphemism used by the militarized police industrial complex to get away with beating people at range for no reason.


They are intentionally designed to injure.


These are not toys, the manufacturers still consider them potentially lethal. The rounds carry significantly more energy than a fist, closer to a hammer.


Cops shooting people with them is like hitting people with hammers.


-- Integrity InGov @IntegrityIGP

SaveComment69Like5
Comments (69)
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

There have been reports saying that LAPD is using rubber bullets for crowd control, and others insisting that they are using bean bag rounds.

I don't know which is true, or if both are true.

The description for rubber bullets sounds nastier than that of the bean bag rounds.

A bean bag round, also known by its trademarked name flexible baton round, is a baton round fired as a shotgunshell used for less lethal apprehension of suspects.[1][2]

Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

I didn't include photos of injuries, but they are graphic.

At least one photojournalist, Linda Tirado in Minnesota, has been blinded in one eye.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I saw a picture of a woman who was his by "rubber" bullet and she had horrible welts. Whoever was shooting her was aiming high also.

1 Like Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
wildchild2x2

How about this? We'll stop calling them rubber bullets when you stop calling target rifles assault weapons.


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Off topic.

8 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The videos of LA protestors being hit by whatever projectiles the LAPD are using show a lot of pain being inflicted.

1 Like Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Off topic.

And deflection.

6 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Cruelty is the point with this administration.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I don't know if you have been following the flap with Tom Cotton and "no quarter". Basically he saying "take no prisoners" which is illegal and against the rules of military engagement. Link

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Rubber bullets are the projectiles..... not the firearm......

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
vedabeeps

This is what they were firing at the Fairfax protest in LA (my friends picked these up from in front of their store the next morning when cleaning up.)



1 Like Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
vedabeeps



1 Like Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Those are rubber bullets.

Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Cops shooting people with them is like hitting people with hammers.

Maybe a soft rubber mallet.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

The kind that explodes an eyeball.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheesh(5b)

Why on earth do some posters feel they must challenge everything with silly remarks unless they just pointlessly lol?

What a dumb thing to compare rubber bullets to.

6 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheesh(5b)

Lol 😂

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

How about this? We'll stop calling them rubber bullets when you stop calling target rifles assault weapons.

Sounds fair!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

A study done a few years ago, and in a different context, concluded that:


" Given their inherent inaccuracy, potential for misuse and associated health consequences of severe injury, disability and death, KIPs [Kinetic Impact Projectiles] do not appear to be appropriate weapons for use in crowd-control settings. "


https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/12/e018154

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Rina

A colleague of mine got hit by a rubber bullet many years ago on his arm -- I saw the result when he got back to the (newspaper) office. That was no soft rubber mallet, believe me. It hit him with massive force; the bruise was horrendous. I was shocked because I had no idea how bad they were. So Thor, thank you for a thread that points out a very important truth.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

and what about those other nasties,

came across "tracer rounds"? by accident,


Linda Tirado, a photographer, lost her eye to a tracer (they could not save her eye)


---

yea, completely harmless, and good to have such stuff handy to controll those nasty press people...

(sorry, don`t twitter myself, so a screenshot)


1 Like Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
wildchild2x2

Know how to avoid getting hit in the eye....
When rubber bullets begin to fly.....
Come closer and listen, don't be shy....
When told to move on, you say bye-bye.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

And the people who were trapped before curfew?

What if you are journalist who is exempted from the curfew?


With 20 minutes left until the District’s 7 p.m. curfew, authorities
set off a series of explosions in the middle of a crowd in Lafayette
Square, some landing right at protesters’ feet, before forcing
demonstrators from the park. President Trump later walked across the
area to visit historic St. John’s Episcopal Church, which was damaged in a fire set Sunday.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

wild child 2 x 2:

"Know how to avoid getting hit in the eye....
When rubber bullets begin to fly.....
Come closer and listen, don't be shy....
When told to move on, you say bye-bye."


One would think!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

And the people who were trapped before curfew?

What if you are journalist who is exempted from the curfew?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp

Fascists deal with Donnies enemies of the people... our press.


https://twitter.com/JDiamond1/status/1268159230537850881


2 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Wow! This wouldn't have happened with peaceful protests. All of the death, damage, and destruction was caused by anti-Trump maniacs. Own it.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
2 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

An interview with General Russel Honore, the hero of Hurricane Katrina (salty language alert).

‘Don’t Ever Tell Law Enforcement to Shoot to Kill Your Own People’

Link

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Rina

Know how to avoid getting hit in the eye....
When rubber bullets begin to fly.....
Come closer and listen, don't be shy....
When told to move on, you say bye-bye.


And why?


Because that's what it means to live in a police state, which it appears some Americans are content to do.


8 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

It's going to take a police action to stop this.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp

It is going to take real change to stop this or it will keep happening.

4 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Physicians for Human Rights, a nonprofit advocacy group based in New York, has called for rubber bullets to be banned. The British military developed rubber bullets 50 years ago to control nationalist rioters in Northern Ireland, although the United Kingdom stopped using them decades ago.17 hours ago

https://khn.org/news/police-use-rubber-bullets-on-protesters-that-can-kill-blind-or-maim-for-life/


A study published in 2017 in the BMJ found that 3% of people hit by rubber bullets died of the injury. Fifteen percent of the 1,984 people studied were permanently injured by the rubber bullets, also known as “kinetic impact projectiles.”

Rubber bullets should be used only to control “an extremely dangerous crowd,” said Brian Higgins, the former police chief of Bergen County, New Jersey.

“Shooting them into open crowds is reckless and dangerous,” said Dr. Douglas Lazzaro, a professor and expert in eye trauma at NYU Langone Health.

In the past week, a grandmother in La Mesa, California, was hospitalized in an intensive care unit after being hit between the eyes with a rubber bullet. Actor Kendrick Sampson said he was hit by rubber bullets seven times at a Los Angeles protest.

In Washington, D.C., the National Guard allegedly fired rubber bullets Monday to disperse peaceful protesters near a historic church where President Donald Trump was subsequently photographed.


2 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

More.

Police are not required to document their use of rubber bullets, so there is no national data to show how often they’re used, said Higgins, now an adjunct professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. There are no nationally agreed-upon standards for their use.

Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Rina

Cry, the beloved country. Your beloved country, not mine. But I can cry for it too.

1 Like Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

It is going to take people that believe in law and order doing their jobs to stop this.

That would not be Democrat mayors and governors, or law enforcement officers that know they will not be backed up by Democrt mayors and governors.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

"Law and Order" means not strangling suspects in the street.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

The reports of LE supporting the message of the protestors is growing.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

So what?

Does law enforcement support the ACTIONS of the protesters?

Battery, shooting police officers in the back of head, beating innocent business owners trying to protet their businesses, destroying businesses, arson, THEFT, LOOTING, throwing rocks, throwing bricks, lead pipes and wire cutters?

That's the salient question.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
texanjana(8)

These projectiles can be lethal, and as is the case in Austin are inaccurate and often miss the intended target.


Austin Man Critically Injured by Police



Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

I am at a loss for words. Who can defend a police state that is murdering citizens and mangling people protesting that? And the press?

10 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Cruz just listed all of the federal crimes the peaceful protesters committed. Doesn't sound good.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
texanjana(8)

Cruz has proven he is a Trump toadie and was almost defeated in the last election. Hopefully he won't be so lucky next time. I have already sent he and Cornyn lengthy emails about their responses to Trump's actions.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

No, Stan, that is not the salient question.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

Stop saying "rubber bullets" they are BLUNT FORCE ROUNDS

Ready?

Rubber bullets.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

elvis

Stop saying "rubber bullets" they are BLUNT FORCE ROUNDS

Ready?
Rubber bullets.
________________________

Is that supposed to be funny?

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Gizmo

lurker111

Wow!
This wouldn't have happened with peaceful protests. All of the death,
damage, and destruction was caused by anti-Trump maniacs. Own it.

********************************************************

It happened in Lafayette Park before Barr & Trump's goon-squad fired on, and gassed Americans, clearing the area for Trump's photo-op.

It was a peaceful march as seen on live TV.

7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

"Does law enforcement support the ACTIONS of the protesters?

Battery, shooting police officers in the back of head, beating innocent business owners trying to protet their businesses, destroying businesses, arson, THEFT, LOOTING, throwing rocks, throwing bricks, lead pipes and wire cutters?"

Your first sentences mentions protesters. Your second describes rioters. Those are two different grouos. If you believe in Constutional rights and the rule of law, then you support the first and arrest the second. If you don't see the difference between the two, then you don't support, or even understand, those Constitutional rights.

9 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted


jmm1837:


"Does law enforcement support the ACTIONS of the protesters?

Battery, shooting police officers in the back of head, beating innocent business owners trying to protet their businesses, destroying businesses, arson, THEFT, LOOTING, throwing rocks, throwing bricks, lead pipes and wire cutters?"

Your first sentences mentions protesters. Your second describes rioters. Those are two different grouos. If you believe in Constutional rights and the rule of law, then you support the first and arrest the second. If you don't see the difference between the two, then you don't support, or even understand, those Constitutional rights.

If you believe in Constutional rights and the rule of law, then you support the first and arrest the second. If you don't see the difference between the two, then you don't support, or even understand, those Constitutional rights.



Here is the deal, "jmm1837":

You don't know where the protesters start and the rioters begin, or vice versa, anymore than I do.

Now, I don't need YOU to school me on constitutional rights.

Especially since you have no business doing so to anyone, and you certainly have no business telling me I don't support or understand constitutional rights.

So, disagree with me, or not, I do not care.

But keep your little lectures to yourself, because they are worthless and out of line, got it?

We KNOW and we SEE who is out looting and killing, murdering, setting fires, ruining businesses, hitting people and badly injuring them with bricks, rocks, tire irons, crowbars, and stealing every single thing out of businesses just because they can.

As if the nomenclature matters!


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

It's going to take a police action to stop this.

It was police action that started this.

8 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

You don't know where the protesters start and the rioters begin

This has been fairly easy to determine in Los Angeles, and local law enforcement has stated the same.

But keep your little lectures to yourself, because they are worthless and out of line, got it?

I could say the same about the assertion regarding protestors and rioters.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

A reporter said LE in DC wouldn’t identify who they were or what type. They wore American flags on their shoulders. Do we even know if they are legal or posing as some sort of LE? How many black cars/SUVs have been found full of rock/weapons? It is really not clear what is going on.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheesh(5b)

But keep your little lectures to yourself, because they are worthless and out of line, got it?

Oh my! Such hostility! Perhaps even flaggable and banishable. Very Trumpian to lash out at someone who obviously knows more than the poster does.

Jmm, the poster sounds very jealous of your knowledge. We see it repeatedly here. Personally, I appreciate your understanding and well-thought-out discussions. Thank you.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jmm1837

"Now, I don't need YOU to school me on constitutional rights.

Especially since you have no business doing so to anyone, and you certainly have
no business telling me I don't support or understand constitutional
rights.

So, disagree with me, or not, I do not care.

But keep your little lectures to yourself, because they are worthless and out of line, got it?"


So, Stan, your idea of "free speech" is to tell me I have no right to exercise it?




9 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

Jmm, you are not out of line at all. Your contributions are welcome and always add to the discussion.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Ahhhh! So, some types of lectures are ok and others aren't?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
isabellagracepan

BBC has a well done video showing the attacks on the press. It is hard to watch without being afraid for the freedom of the press right now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH8Zw8gjAEU

A functioning democracy needs accurate reporting, and the police have no business removing press who are simply doing their job. Isn't this the whole point of the first amendment?

10 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Government still uses Blackwater/Academi. Is it possible they are in DC?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

BBC has a well done video showing the attacks on the press

The video of the attack on the Australian journalists clearly shows the female reporter being struck with a baton across her back after she was leaving the scene.

Videos posted regarding Los Angeles police activity show a number of instances of the same tactic of assaulting persons who are already in the process of obeying police orders.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

Wow, that BBC report is disturbing.

ETA I guess this is the result of continually calling the media the 'enemy of the people'.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
petalique

US police departments seem to be slow learners. I remember the following “rubber bullet” death of a young, peaceful BU student celebrating the 2004 Boston Red Sox win over Yankees.


Lethal blunt projectiles fired into crowd of people celebrating a long time coming Red Sox win than broke “the curse.” It was a special win for Red Sox fans. The jubilation was stained by the senseless and needless death of a vibrant young student.


This article shared for discussion purposes.



~~~~~~

Boston police accept 'full responsibility' in death of Red Sox fan

Woman killed by projectile fired to disperse crowds

Friday, October 22, 2004 Posted: 3:54 AM EDT (0754 GMT)

(CNN) -- The Boston Police Department "accepts full responsibility" for the death of a 21-year-old college student killed by a police projectile fired to disperse crowds celebrating the Boston Red Sox victory over the New York Yankees.

Preliminary findings indicate that Victoria Snelgrove, a journalism student at Emerson College, was hit in the eye by a projectile that disperses pepper spray on impact, Boston Police Commissioner Kathleen O'Toole said Thursday.

Snelgrove died at 12:50 p.m. at Brigham and Women's Hospital, hours after the overnight melee.

"The Boston Police Department is devastated by this tragedy. This terrible event should never have happened," O'Toole told reporters. "The Boston Police Department accepts full responsibility for the death of Victoria Snelgrove."

.... snip

"What happened to her should not happen to any American citizen," he told reporters, fighting back tears. "She loved the Red Sox. She went in to celebrate with friends, she was a bystander. She was out of the way, but she still got shot."

Police have said some 60,000 to 80,000 people took to the streets in the area around Fenway Park late Wednesday. Although most were simply celebrating the 10-3 victory that thrust the Red Sox into the World Series for the first time since 1986, some in the crowd vandalized property, set fires and tried to overturn cars. At least eight people were arrested.

However, video from the scene where Snelgrove was struck showed the crowd in a joyous mood, slapping high fives and chanting celebratory Red Sox slogans. There were no signs of near-riotous conditions in that immediate vicinity although the area was crowded, and dozens of people near her stopped celebrating when they realized the severity of her injury and they tried to get help.

Snelgrove was sprawled out on the ground, with blood running down her face.

"This day, which should have been one of celebration, is heartbreakingly tragic," O'Toole said. "I can't imagine the grief that her family is suffering and express my deepest sympathy to them."

She said the officers involved were "devastated" and have been placed on leave pursuant to department policy. Their names will not be not disclosed until they are interviewed by investigators, she said.

O'Toole said she "firmly and emphatically" accepted responsibility for any errors officers may have made. But she condemned the "punks" she said turned a celebration of the pennant victory into a near-riot.

"The dreadful irony is that the use of less-lethal weapons is designed to reduce the risk of fatal injury," O'Toole said.

Snelgrove was a junior majoring in journalism at Emerson College, a small, four-year communications and performing arts college in Boston, said school spokesman David Rosen. She had transferred to the school last spring and was to turn 22 next week.

Rosen said Snelgrove's family was at her side when she died.


https://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/22/fan.death/

~~~~~


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

In case there was ever any doubt about what the police were using on its own citizens:

Breaking: police canisters gathered by

@wusa9 crews Monday night show federal police DID use artificial CS tear gas in addition to natural OC gas on #BlackLivesMatter

#WashingtonDCProtests Asking

@usparkpolicepio &

@realDonaldTrump for response on statements claiming otherwise.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Attacking journalists and photographers tells me the government doesn’t want documentation. Trump is making a case to cover up.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cattyles

I can explain. Trump is a liar.

3 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

I think it is more than that Kathy. Otherwise, why would they attack the journalists and photographers while knowing they are being filmed? That documentation is more damning than just their reactions to the protestors being recorded.

I don't know the reason, but I wonder if it is just the same problems magnified by the protests against them. The anger and arrogance that allows an officer to kill a man with his knee, while others stand by, and thinking no consequences will come as a result, will have those same feelings magnified when confronted by a large number of protesters telling them that behavior is wrong. Because the officers are then feeding on fear, anger and arrogance, and they still don't think there will be consequences placed upon them for their actions. Even when their assaults and anger extend to the press.

Maybe they feel embolden, too, in that masses of LE, and their protective gear, makes them feel their behavior will be anonymous.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

I really think we’d have to visit the Dark RW web sites to know what’s going on. It just seems to be much more than we can see and understand.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I wonder if it is just the same problems magnified by the protests against them

After watching videos the protests and police on #DTLA and other accounts, I was shocked to see how quickly LAPD jumped into the us-versus-them mentality and take their anger out on peaceful protestors.

The officers know that in the age of cell phones that the probability of their actions being recorded by multiple witnesses is extremely high.

they still don't think there will be consequences placed upon them for their actions. Even when their assaults and anger extend to the press.

Adrenaline? A mob mentality among certain officers? Abusers waiting for an excuse to abuse?

The L.A. County DA, Jackie Lacey, does not bring charges against officers involved in killing unarmed civilians. There's a heated election campaign now to replace her in November, and Lacey is supported by the Police Protection League (or whatever they call it here).

*

If some were still on the fence about the LAPD, the events of recent days have shown the force is still in need more thorough reform.

A campaign is building for the LAPD Chief Michael Moore to be fired, and for Mayor Garcetti to resign.

Warning: Violent images and strong language in below video.





4 Likes Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp



May have fallen.



Save     Thanked by THOR, Son of ODIN
Browse Gardening and Landscaping Stories on Houzz See all Stories
Landscape Design California Says Goodbye to the Sprawling Ornamental Lawn
New state rules will effectively limit turfgrass to 25 percent of the landscape in most new and renovated yards
Full Story
Most Popular So You Say: 30 Design Mistakes You Should Never Make
Drop the paint can, step away from the brick and read this remodeling advice from people who’ve been there
Full Story
Great Home Projects Say Goodbye to the Shower Curtain With a Glass Tub Enclosure
A glass screen or door can make a bathroom look modern and airy, and can be easy to clean if you don’t have hard water
Full Story