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Annie Deighnaugh

If correct, let's hope it leads to a treatment/cure soon!

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Olychick

Wow, is that ever interesting. And hopefully will lead to better, faster treatments until a vaccine can aid in transmission. thank you for posting this!

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

This is a very interesting article and explains a lot. I wondered why so many people had heart attacks from a disease that was classified as respiratory.

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Moxie(Z4 St. Paul, MN)

Thank you for the article, Lulu Smith! Best theory I've heard so far for tying together seemingly unrelated symptoms.

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Lulu Smith

From Mt. Sinai hospital in NYC:

A new study from the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai suggests that blood clots, especially in the lungs, may play a role in severe cases of COVID-19. The finding suggests that treatment for respiratory failure caused by COVID-19 might follow the model for stroke—anticoagulation drugs for milder cases and thrombolysis, or clot removal, with continued anticoagulation for more severe disease

https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2020/mount-sinai-study-finds-covid19-may-be-driven-by-pulmonary-thrombi-and-pulmonary-endothelial-dysfunction-pr


A new report from a well-respected medical journal suggests that the coronavirus may be a blood vessel disease as well as a respiratory infection. That explanation would tie together a number of disparate manifestations of the novel coronavirus that were previously confounding researchers. That includes the emergence of pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome, a coronavirus-related syndrome which only affects children; and the presence of toe rashes, a condition that has been dubbed "Covid Toe."

https://www.salon.com/2020/06/01/coronavirus-is-a-blood-vessel-disease-study-says-and-its-mysteries-finally-make-sense/

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chisue

Thank you. I'm going to ask my oncologist about this tomorrow. (I have MM, a blood cancer.)

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dirtygert(5-NY)

Thanks for posting this, Lulu. This virus is definitely a nasty --- but it's so interesting how it works. We're so lucky to have doctors, scientists and research teams doing their best to sort it all out.

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Ziemia(6a)

This does explain a lot - kidneys, feet, heart, lungs being impacted. Then there's the extreme overall weakness....

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patriciae_gw(07)

Really interesting. Thanks for posting this. If this proves true it really points the way to additional treatment.

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Lulu Smith

it does explain the diverse symptoms.

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Stan Areted

Thanks; this has been discussed before, had a heads up months ago when it was discovered how the virus injected itself into our cells, affecting ability to carry oxygen throughout the body.

It's a shame the CDC and WHO ruined our economy and the world economy and wasted time making assumptions and giving us directives when they were so wrong.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Stan, this is totally outside of any normal understanding of a Coronavirus sort of disease. We don't even know it to be a true understanding. It is a starting place for more investigation. Nothing in this new theory changes the fact that isolating wasn't the right thing to do. It means it will kill in ways that weren't anticipated. Isolating, closing down, seems more necessary than ever, not the opposite.

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Stan Areted

Isolating as many--healthy people, and as long as we did, turns out was not based on science but a handful--literally, a handful of people that acted like GODS and had no real clue. They didn't have the decency to tell us they didn't know what they didn't know.

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wildchild2x2

My personal physician and his colleagues have been livid about the measures taken locking down,masks for all etc. for sometime now. The doctors know what going on and their hands are tied. They are government hostages.

Bottom line: The devastating consequences of state,county and city actions far outweigh the damage of the virus had we simply flattened the curve and gone on with our lives.

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Joaniepoanie

Gee—-I don’t remember any of the health/science experts claiming to have nailed down everything about this virus in the four months since it appeared—-case closed. But leave it to the Trumper science deniers to act like they knew better than the experts.

ETA: Since things have started reopening, cases in my area are going up, up, up. I suspect it’s the same most everywhere.

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deegw

Lulu, thank you for your interesting post

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jmm1837

"The devastating consequences of state,county and city actions far outweigh the damage of the virus had we simply flattened the curve and gone on with our lives."


And how exactly do you think we could have flattened the curve without measues such as testing, social distancing and the like to reduce the spread of the disease?


A GP is, by definition, a medical generalist. Just as I relied on a specialist orthopedic surgeon, not my GP, for my hip replacement, when it comes to something like a new disease, I'm going to heed the advice of specialists, those with expert qualifications in epidemiology, virology, immunology and the like, over my GP. Despite claims to the contrary, those experts, of which there are thousands globally, didn't pretend to know everything about the disease when it first burst upon us but did give out the best advice they could with the knowledge available at the time. As their knowledge has improved, their advice has been refined. But the fundamentals we got back in February - cleanliness, social distancing, reducing contact to slow the spread of the disease, combined with the standard practices of testing and contact tracing - still apply.




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Annie Deighnaugh

jmm, I was about to ask the same question:

Bottom line: The devastating consequences of state,county and city actions far outweigh the damage of the virus had we simply flattened the curve and gone on with our lives.

How does one flatten the curve without deploying the 4 tools we have available at this point:

  1. PPE
  2. Hygiene
  3. Physical distancing
  4. Testing

Even with those tools deployed, however poorly, we have states where the curve is nowhere near flattening, but still accelerating...these are just a few:





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catspa_zone9sunset14

Wildchild doesn't seem to have noticed the steep uptick in CA lately. My county, in the SF Bay Area, was going along steady until last week, then there was a sharp increase in hospitalizations -- that can't be blamed on increased testing.

ETA that I'm thinking that the vascular aspects of this disease may not be particularly good news. Starting to see stories about many people who have "recovered" but have long-lingering, possibly permanent, damage.

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maddie260

A major story of Covid may well be the long-lingering health effects of the illness in those who 'recovered'. I don't think that is discussed enough in news reports of this pandemic.

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jmm1837

I read the article again, and then I read this comment again:


"Isolating as many--healthy people, and as long as we did, turns out was not based on science but a handful--literally, a handful of people that acted like GODS and had no real clue. They didn't have the decency to tell us they didn't know what they didn't know."


To put it politely, the comment is a complete non sequitur. That the disease may ultimately affect the vascular system doesn't change the critical need to stop or at least slow its spread in the first place. The method and rate of transmission hasn't changed, after all, just our understanding of how it functions once it gets into the body. So whether this paper is right or not, the need to prevent it spreading hasn't changed at all either.


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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

I've read about the long-term possible effects in several articles, and also the adverse effects of prolonged ventilator use. We're still in the stage of trying to put out a fire, and attention can only gradually be paid to other aspects, but I'm afraid that with this virus the long-term effects will affect people and the health care system for a very long time to come.

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maddie260

Ingrid, I have also, but medical is my interest. I don't know that it is of the general public at large? I think that Covid, in a large way, has been presented as one has it and dies, one has a minor case, or one has a major case and then recovers. Not too much is said about the long-term disabilities that a lot of health care professional are now reporting. I understand we are in the forest fire stage regardless of some postings!

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wildchild2x2

Wildchild doesn't seem to have noticed the steep uptick in CA lately

The uptick is because of increased testing. Sheep are lining up to be tested. More sheep tested more numbers to crunch into the system to keep the sheep under submission.

Oh. you said steep. Not sheep. My bad. LOL

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jmm1837

Wildchild apparently didn't notice that catspa referred to hospitalizations, not to cases.

And in simple terms, the more you test, the more mild and asymptomatic cases you find. The number of cases goes up, but the much more important case mortality rate goes down because you're capturing the cases that don't need hospitals, never mind coffins.

There may be sheep here, but they are not the people who understand the purpose of testing, and the importance of doing it as widely as possible. When you have mass testing, you can identify most cases and isolate their contacts. Less testing means having to isolate the broader communities because you can't be sure who is transmitting the disease to whom.

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Lars(Z11a (coastal L.A.) and Z9a (desert))

“The concept that’s emerging is that this is not a respiratory illness alone, this is a respiratory illness to start with, but it is actually a vascular illness that kills people through its involvement of thevasculature,” says Mehra.

It still starts out as a respiratory illness, and so the methods to prevent its spread are still the same.

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wildchild2x2

I guess these mental health doctors are lying too. But you stay a in denial and hide your heads in the sand.

WALNUT CREEK, Calif. (KGO) -- Doctors at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek say they have seen more deaths by suicide during this quarantine period than deaths from the COVID-19 virus.

"Personally I think it's time," said Dr. Mike deBoisblanc. "I think, originally, this (the shelter-in-place order) was put in place to flatten the curve and to make sure hospitals have the resources to take care of COVID patients.We have the current resources to do that and our other community health is suffering."


https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/

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catspa_zone9sunset14

The uptick is because of increased testing.

There was also an increase in hospitalizations, around 25% -- that isn't due to testing. As it generally takes two to three weeks for a case to get bad enough to require hospitalization, my guess would be that the reduction of social distancing around Mothers Day might be a factor.



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ubro(2a)

Bottom line: The devastating consequences of state,county and city actions far outweigh the damage of the virus had we simply flattened the curve and gone on with our lives.

I am not sure how this works. The only way to have flattened the curve and go on with our lives is for the people to follow and adhere to those country and city actions and restrictions. We all knew this would have devastating consequences and to flatten the curve they could not be avoided. There is nothing simple about it.

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Lulu Smith

This is encouraging.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

My county, in the SF Bay Area, was going along steady until last week, then there was a sharp increase in hospitalizations -- that can't be blamed on increased testing.

Los Angeles County has had an increase in cases while the number of hospitalizations was decreasing (blamed on backlog of test results being released), but in this last week hospitalizations have also begun to rise.

http://dashboard.publichealth.lacounty.gov/covid19_surveillance_dashboard/

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wildchild2x2

Dr. Lee W. Riley, a professor of infectious diseases and vaccinology at the UC Berkeley school of public health. “You really need close contact for a period of time for this to happen,” Riley said. “The number of viruses it takes to establish and produce an infection is relatively large. Unlike measles, which just needs a few, with this coronavirus, you may need prolonged contact for enough virus to get transmitted.”


“You really need close contact for a period of time for this to happen,” Riley said. “The number of viruses it takes to establish and produce an infection is relatively large. Unlike measles, which just needs a few, with this coronavirus, you may need prolonged contact for enough virus to get transmitted.”

County Health Dept solution? Open more indoor workplaces. Increase OUTDOOR mask use and OUTDOOR social distancing.

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ubro(2a)

Unlike measles, which just needs a few, with this coronavirus, you may need prolonged contact for enough virus to get transmitted.”

Notice the word may? even he doesn't know, but we do know that this disease is highly infectious, better safe than sorry.



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terezosa / terriks

Someone deleted my post?

Here's the picture again for those who think that this should have been known.


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jmm1837

"Unlike measles, which just needs a few, with this coronavirus, you may need prolonged contact for enough virus to get transmitted.”


By prolonged contact, Dr. Riley meant, and said, 15 minutes. So, the length of time to have a cup of coffee with an asymptomatic friend. Or sit in a church pew. Or sunbathe in a crowd on the beach.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Doctors have been reporting vasculitis like symptoms for some time. Covid toe and the netting on the skin that looks like tiny bruises in a mesh. Weird stuff that they are not in a position to make sense of as doctors in the field. No sensible doctor makes such a claim without doing the actual sections and lab work. It just looked similar to vasculitis which is an inflammation of the lining of blood vessels and can be very serious in otherwise healthy people. Now more work has been done and researchers are saying it is looking very like a vasculitis and is probably responsible for all the heart failures and sudden strokes. This is both scary and helpful. There are treatments, medications for the various sorts of vasculitis or arteritis. I am wondering if virus might have been responsible for this mysterious syndrome all this time. Not Covid-19 but some other relative. Sort of like who tests people with no symptoms for flu. Have we had people walking around spreading flu who never knew they had it? Is asymptomatic disease more common than we never even surmised?

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Lulu Smith

At least it's something to work on.

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Ziemia(6a)

Yes - if you must be in a crowd, make it outdoors and wearing masks.

No elevators!

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Lulu Smith

People taking the stairs instead of elevators is one of the best ideas yet. It will help with the nationwide epidemic of obesity in the US.

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Moxie(Z4 St. Paul, MN)

I'm very worried that cases and death rates will increase as a result of protesters being in close proximity for hours on end. I'm hoping that being outdoors reduces the effect.

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cattyles

I hope so too, moxie. But I saw a graph showing significant increases last week, even before the protests.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

And here is the part of the article that Wildchild left out:

John Muir Health provided a statement to ABC7 late Thursday, saying the organization as a whole is supportive of the shelter-in-place order in the Bay Area.

"John Muir Health has been, and continues to be, supportive of the Shelter-in-Place order put in place by Contra Costa County Health Services to prevent the spread of COVID-19. We realize there are a number of opinions on this topic, including within our medical staff, and John Muir Health encourages our physicians and staff to participate constructively in these discussions. We all share a concern for the health of our community whether that is COVID-19, mental health, intentional violence or other issues. We continue to actively work with our Behavioral Health Center, County Health and community organizations to increase awareness of mental health issues and provide resources to anyone in need. If you are in a crisis and need help immediately, please call 211 or 800-833-2900 or text 'HOPE' to 20121 now. We are all in this together, and ask the community to please reach out to anyone who you think might be in need during this challenging time. Thank you."

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Lulu Smith

Well, at least no one is talking about the pandemic any more. I guess that's all over

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