Like a scene out of star wars...only it's not fiction...it's America

Annie Deighnaugh
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Izzy Mn(4)

Just FYI, this took place on Saturday night in Minneapolis after the curfew of 8pm. I haven't heard a follow up on it yet. The people were standing on their front steps videoing the police going down their street when shot at with marker paint balls. Really unprovoked and unnecessary and a bad look.

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bleusblue2

When and Where did this happen?

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Kathy

They were shooting paintballs at people to make them get back in their houses saying “light them up”.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Does curfew mean you can't be on your own property? I thought it meant you couldn't be in public spaces...

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Compare to under-supplied medical workers.

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Iris GW

There are reports that some of the rioters are groups of white supremacists, stirring up trouble to foment violence.

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Michele

We are in deep deep s**t. We have the people behind this sorry excuse for a human being to blame.

this idiot was never the brains of this or any other operation. he’s the talking puppet out front. To divide us. Distract us. look to the extreme Religious right who are tools themselves. Follow the rubles.

ETA: Just my little ole humble opinion

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adoptedbyhounds

"It is a trial run for November, and if you don't think so at this point you are completely checked out. When he loses he will call for violence."

You could be right about this being a "trial run," but it's not President Trump conducting it.

He's working with AG Barr to hold domestic terrorists and their financial backers accountable for what they've done to communities across America.

By the time we get to November, I expect many of the criminals awaiting trial will be asking themselves where they got the idea they could commit crimes on camera and walk away without being held accountable.

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lurker111

Paint balls...lol. Kids pay good money for that.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I checked and Minn curfew says you can't be out on the streets, but there is nothing wrong with sitting out on your own stoop. These cops were in the wrong...again.

During the curfew, no one can travel on Minneapolis or St. Paul streets or be in public places, with a few exceptions.


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Annie Deighnaugh

He's working with AG Barr to hold domestic terrorists and their financial backers accountable for what they've done to communities across America.

You mean all those people trump/barr will define as domestic terrorists like democrats and independents who support biden?

I don't know how some can't see the dangerous and steady march toward authoritarianism going on in this government.

SMH

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lurker111

Sounds like someone already knows who they are. Biden supporters.

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dandyfopp

They see it, they don't care.

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Moxie(Z4 St. Paul, MN)

The location is about a dozen blocks from where I lived in South Minneapolis for more than 20 years. While I know the exact location, it will suffice to say it's near the southeastern boundary of the Whittier neighborhood.

Governor Waltz has been very careful to use MN National Guard and arrange for backup from other states rather than use federal troops. Federal troops should always be a last resort for many reasons - more now than ever. The states not the federal government control the National Guard so saying that this is dress rehearsal for federal troops show a lack of understanding of the control structures of the organizations.

It is frightening to have military or police marching through one's neighborhood. My personal experience with police has been positive, but I've known police and military people that I considered unstable and dangerous. I'm more than a little wary.

I wish the governor had stated clearly that the curfew meant staying indoors because there's no way to know if the person on a porch belongs there or is pretending to belong there.

During this whole crisis it has been clear that criminals, who are hell bent on major destruction for their own agendas that have nothing to do with Mr. Floyd's death or the treatment of African Americans, are exploiting the situation. The governor, the representative from the department of public safety and the Minneapolis chief of police have actually mentioned white supremisists, drug cartels and antiffa. They are clearly being very careful about what they say, which makes me wonder what's happening.

There's a level of planning and skill that speaks to professionalism. Notably, there have been a number of black SUVs tearing around without license plates. The vehicles are stolen and not just locally. Vehicles have been captured but the people in them melt into the darkness. The vehicles have contained drugs, weapons and other destructive materials. In a recent one, the driver torched the vehicle before running, which make one wonder what was in it that was important enough to pause and destroy. Law enforcement is finding caches of accelerants, etc. hidden in proximity to buildings. I expect a National Guard presence until they find a resolution.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Boston police are destroying their own car. Why are they doing this? People are surmising that they want to blame it on the protesters.

Language alert.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1267310193756553217

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Photos and videos of downtown LA (DTLA) posted on social media last night showed streets filled with what looked like an occupying army patrolling the area with circling helicopters adding to the creepiness.

Several residents posted of having been fired upon by LE while in their own balconies, and one women posted a video of being threatened with a weapon (rubber bullets?) as she filmed LE in an open-air vehicle from her second or third story window inside her home.

.

Santa Monica and Beverly Hills have announced 1 PM curfew today.

LA City and County 6 PM curfew today.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

LAPD Chief Michael Moore praised the actions of his force even as there are videos circulating of patrol cars deliberately striking protesting pedestrians, officers attacking peaceful protestors, and aggression against residents who happened to be in the area.

Prior to Moore's unqualified praise, LAPD had acknowledged receiving videos of pedestrians being struck by police cars and said that investigations would be conducted. I'm not holding my breath.

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Annie Deighnaugh

And more...trump has sent US troops into DC to be used against American citizens and has threatened to do the same, with or without governors' requests.

These are very dangerous times. Using the excuse of these riots made up of agitators, trump is taking a major step toward autocracy. If you aren't upset by this, you should be.

And we have over 6 months to go during which it's only going to get more dangerous...a lot more dangerous.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Remember the term 'wedge issue'? I think it became popular during GWBush years.

Been thinking about that lately - our president appears to be the king of wedge issues.

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lurker111

Trump has no wedge issues. That's all on the crats. Those who can't see it must be blind or brainwashed.

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barncatz

Tin soldiers and Bunker's army

I shouldn't be glib. Watching in horror last night all I could think was how young the protestors were.

Am I going to sit back in my recliner or am I going to do everything in my power to protect them from this administration?


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Kathy

Trump has already divided true conservatives (wedge) from Trump conservatives. That’s why so many GOP left the party in 2018 and decided to sit out the next few years.

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Michele

It’s endless and so very tiresome. The ugly hatred is all coming out. It was nourished by the orange puppet and those who pull the strings.

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Kathy

It’s time to kick the money changers out of the WH.

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terezosa / terriks

He may have wedgie issues


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adoptedbyhounds

"You mean all those people trump/barr will define as domestic terrorists like democrats and independents who support biden?"

You seem oddly unfamiliar with our system, Annie.

The President and AG are part of the Executive Branch. Do you not know which branch of government is charged with interpreting the law?

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Gooster(9)

We had the National Guard deployed yesterday in various cities and nearby counties. The local governments had to request the full deployment. They mainly backed up the local law enforcement so the main force could focus on looters and vandals that had been taking advantage of the peaceful protesters to hit local businesses (150 just in one area) and neighborhoods.

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althea_gw

Why did no one report hearing the NG shout "get inside" about 10 times, but did hear the "light up" part?


I don't have a lot of sympathy for the woman who was hit with a paint ball. While it's true no one was told curfew meant inside your house, it seems reasonable to follow the orders of those who were sent to protect the whole neighborhood.

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Annie Deighnaugh

You seem oddly unfamiliar with our system, abh.

The President and AG are part of the Executive Branch. Do you not know which branch of government is charged with enforcing the law?

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Annie Deighnaugh

If it isn't clear by now, abh, the exec branch has a great deal more immediacy of action than a court.

The exec branch also has a great deal of flexibility regarding which laws it will and won't enforce, how it will interpret the laws and how it will enforce them. It also has even more flexibility, now that the administration has decided and the senate has gone along with them, that the president is *above* the law. Even if he shoots someone, not only can't he be charged, but he can't even be investigated...so have argued his lawyers. And a *lot* of damage can be done before the supreme court rules on a case...if they even choose to hear it.

For example, *no* law says it's ok for a cop to kill a man by kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes, but it happened...and no court in the land can bring Mr. Floyd back from the dead.

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Annie Deighnaugh

So tell me abh, let's say this president loses the election in Nov and decides he's not leaving. It's rigged or it's a national emergency or he declares martial law or whatever reason. But say he does decide that...who's going to make him leave?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

The executive branch is NOT charged with "interpreting" the law. That is the job of the judicial branch.

The executive branch "implements and enforces" the laws "created and passed" by Congress (and not vetoed by the president).

Kate

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

althea the curfew law does not state that people must be inside.

People sitting on their front porches are not breaking any law, and Law Enforcement has no legal right to “light them up” (a term that specifically refers to live ammo; just how desensitized are our law enforcement officers?) or use any kind of force on anyone who’s not breaking the law.

LE can’t interpret the law: “I think they should be inside so they must go in.”

They can only enforce the law: “the law says this and you must obey it.”

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Annie Deighnaugh

Kate, was that message to me?

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althea_gw

Miss Lindsey, I understand that but we are in a declared "State of emergency". The obstinance of the porch woman isn't impressive. The previous night, NG was being shot at with guns & ied's. The NG did not know who these people are and if they actually live there.


The situation is temporary.

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Ziemia(6a)

The AG has a lot to do with prosecution.

It's not about new laws. It's about prosecuting.

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Ziemia(6a)

Well, we do tend to lose our rights when we don't use them. Cops don't usually shoot at random residents. They are supposed to NOT shoot at suspects if they are just standing in their entries.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

When law enforcement finds it necessary to use force it should never be glorified with a disgusting phrase like “light ’em up.”

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althea_gw

Miss Lindsey what did you think of the repeated request to "go inside"? If they would have said "please go inside", do you think the porch people would have done so?

Here's a link to the story about the IL people, part of the reason the NG were there.


https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/06/01/matthew-lee-rupert-charged-with-rioting/?fbclid=IwAR3U4fz4pMBN_2ZSh00VnvoXKOLwBHvJ544utbn78nH8Z1voNB-3i4cK8gU

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“Miss Lindsey what did you think of the repeated request to "go inside"? If they would have said "please go inside", do you think the porch people would have done so?“

I think they had no just cause to command people to go inside, since the law does not dictate that people must be inside only that they must be off public streets.

LEOs are not allowed to make up new interpretations of laws based on what they feel like doing at the moment.

The people on the porch were not behaving unlawfully and they didn’t present a threat.

Just as LEOs cannot compel a person to identify him/herself unless the person is taken into custody and booked. I bet they would Looooveeee to know the identity of every single person who participates in a protest. But they can’t make the people provide it.

althea how do you feel about LEOs being encouraged to “light up” civilians?

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Annie Deighnaugh

But that's just the point...it wasn't necessary....they were doing nothing wrong...

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althea_gw

"I think they had no just cause to command people to go inside, since the law does not dictate that people must be inside only that they must be off public streets."

Miss Lindsey, actually they do:


I don't know what an LEO is, but the Dept. of Public Safety is in charge here.

I've heard the "light 'em up" language before. It's a shame it had to come to that when it could have so easily been avoided.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Law Enforcement Officer

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Moxie(Z4 St. Paul, MN)

Random comments:

LEO = law enforcement officer

The cherished notion of anonymity at protests - or anywhere else for that matter - has been out the window for quite some time. If you carry a cell phone with you, it's a piece of cake to track your movements and link them to you. Cell phones have to interact with the cell phone network to provide service. That isn't just when you call, text or actively use an application. There's nothing nefarious about this. It's how the technology works. The problem is that carriers sell data. It's mostly for marketing, but it's not that hard to use it for other purposes. Even if the data is de-identified, identity can be reconstructed from the record of where the phone was each time it interacted with the network. Example: phone is at protest march. Follow data for that phone ID after and before the data point for the march. You will get map of where the phone was. Some of those locations will likely be a residence or workplace.

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studio10001

There is this from Boston as well ( language alert):



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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I think this demonstrates the tension between “can” and “should.”

Can LEOs scream at people who are sitting peacefully on their own property to get inside, with no cause? Yes, apparently they *can.*

Should they?

And should they actually be allowed to do so under law? After all even in natural disasters and other emergencies people cannot be compelled to *leave* their property so I think this is a comparable situation, where police should not have the authority to dictate what part of your own home you may occupy.

Police should NEVER engage in violence first. It should always be used in self defense. Could not one of those officers walk up to the people sitting on their porch and simply say “you are allowed to be outside on your property but it may not be safe and it would be best for you to go in”? Or “you are required by law to obey our command to go inside and if you do not you will be taken into custody”?

You know, assert their authority without the prop of weapons?

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Moxie(Z4 St. Paul, MN)

I'm genuinely baffled. Most of the people are peaceful protesters. There are clearly criminals who are hell-bent on burning down our cities, making peaceful people appear to be criminals and generally sowing discord. When there's a curfew to facilitate finding and arresting the criminals who have shown great skill at blending in, why would anyone insist on staying on their porch if going inside might make it even slightly easier to find the criminals?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Because they can?

Because it’s really interesting to see tanks and a column of soldiers march past, a once in a lifetime experience (god willing)?

Because someone farted inside and it really stinks?

Because you were stuck at your office all day wearing a mask and you want to enjoy an hour of fresh air before bed?

I can’t see any indication that anyone tried to rationally tell them to go in, and it was mere seconds between “get inside” and firing. That is no time at all when you’re trying to shift focus and understand that a) you’re being spoken to and b) you have to take action as a result of that communication.

We can deduce that other troops had walked past without giving any notice to these people, since the video begins with someone saying “look here come more” and panning to the left. What changed in the interim, to make these people become a perceived threat?

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studio10001

Has anyone heard if the 16 yr old Parisian boy has survived? someone posted his 'knee' photo yesterday, but I don't find any info today.

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studio10001

I'm marginally baffled that the order wasn't more specific, if the reason for it was to make criminal chameleons easier to detect.

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Moxie(Z4 St. Paul, MN)

@miss lindsey Yikes, in which cities were tanks deployed? The vehicles in Minneapolis are Humvees. There are a number of variants. These definitely aren't the heavily armored version, but I can't tell from pictures and film clips if they have light armor or none. Tanks are a whole different kettle of fish.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

My fault Moxie, I think of humvees as little tanks but you're right of course, they are different.

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Izzy Mn(4)

jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Yesterday at 12:30PM

Boston police are destroying their own car. Why are they doing this? People are surmising that they want to blame it on the protesters.

Language alert.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1267310193756553217

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------

Updated to that video if you scroll down. The police were trying to remove the smashed up windshield so they could see out the front to drive vehicle away. It was already smashed by vandals, videos show vandals smashing the window when you scroll down on that tweet thread.

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Moxie(Z4 St. Paul, MN)

@studio10001 I've no idea. Could be not thinking through the different interpretations of "curfew." It was definitely a screw up. One of the things I find interesting is that within an area 10 blocks north to south and ~ 30 blocks west to east, there are extremely different perceptions of how law enforcement was handled during the curfew. Curfew enforcement was not entirely uniform. For example, the AIM folks at Little Earth were treated very respectfully (unusual) and allowed to patrol their neighborhood - contrary to curfew rules.

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althea_gw

Moxie, Gov. Walz gave AIM and other community patrols an exemption.

https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/modern-day-aim-makes-its-presence-felt-EBcdVsZ2GU2gQGGxbhaIaw

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Moxie(Z4 St. Paul, MN)

Thank you, Althea. I wasn't aware of that. I knew of another group that was allowed to patrol was well. The interview with them that I saw didn't cause me to think that they knew about an official exemption. Sounded more like it just worked out ok when they interacted.

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