Soft-Lite sells to contractors in my area and Polaris sales through there distribution centers called Modern Builders. There are Okna dealers that will sell but few and far between. Often there higher end models are not available though. This is what I think but I’m just guessing. Mist of these companies are small as compared to the giants like Jeld-Wen, Andersen, Marvin,Pella, Plygem ect. and they are very regional. It would be difficult to keep up with demand, meet lower prices others sell there lower end products for and not risk loosing there base clientele they are currently modeled on. As they grow and become larger or get bought out this could change. The window business is tough and there are numerous vinyl companies to compete with. There are probably 15 vinyl window companies in my state alone.

It is their business model, franchise.

edit: sometimes, a manufacturer requires an installer to be trained, certified. That disqualifies “any contractor”. Franchise refers to territory, if a contractor invests to time to get certified, that contractor may not want competition.

Most manufacturers of any products use regionslized distributorships thst are only able to sell to those within those regions. That is one way of enforcing regional UMRP, as shipping costs for base price get factored in.

Regardless if you think they do it they typically leave it up to the dealers in how they want to sell it, There are no restrictions upon me on how I want to Polaris for instance.

A perhaps occasional unintended consequence (as in my example in a previous post), is that an authorized dealer has this monopoly (Okna windows in Western Mass), and because of the way they choose to do business (very high sales presentations and pressure), and exorbitant prices combined with average user reviews (many one star), we are unable to buy and have installed a superior product like Okna 800 or Okna 600 DX windows. Thus, are available window choices are those that are inferior to Okna.

Good insight above... There are many reasons and some have been touched on. While in a vacuum it would be nice to say that manufacturers would love to sell as many windows as they possibly can, there are several other factors involved..

Manufacturing capacity: Certainly these companies would like to grow, but you can't go from 0 to 100 either. Say you have the ability to produce 250,000 windows per year, and could reasonably grow that by X%. Would it make more sense for that capacity to be filled by anyone that may or may not pay their bills, may or may not do a poor job installing and then blame the product, or to fill that capacity with dealers that are vetted financially and for quality, and will be long term stable accounts?

Reputation: As alluded to above, if I'm manufacturing a great product, I want to make sure that there are good installers putting it in. The VAST majority of issues in the window replacement industry are installation related. Conversely, the majority of complaints are directed incorrectly at the product. Given that, I would not want a guy that was a garbage man, a bartender, or a sales guy that decides to start his own contracting business (there are virtually no barriers to start a home improvement business with no qualifications at all) installing my windows, and then blaming the product when he botches the installs.

Financial: For the same reasons as reputation, a company wouldn't be in business for very long if they sell to companies that don't pay their bills. The VAST majority of contractors fail within the first few years, even more at 5, and very few make it past 10. Once again, anybody can start a contracting or window installation company tomorrow with no experience, no qualifications, no business acumen. Many do just that, and then they fail. If I were a manufacturer that sold to any old "contractor", I'd need to have my prices and volume set to compensate for a bunch of guys that stiff me on their bills when they go under.

Service: When you sell windows to all those goofballs that go out of business, who is there to replace a seal failure or a broken tilt latch a few years down the road? Most manufacturers don't have a fleet a service techs running around, they depend on their dealers to service the products that they install.

Dealer demand: From the other side of the coin, if I am a dealer operating in this environment where pickup truck contractors come and go, and they generally price jobs at a completely unsustainable level where they are not actually covering their expenses or making money, why would I want to sell a product that a bunch of these guys can come in and undercut me on? Low price is a VERY compelling factor for consumers, and most folks think that the higher price contractors are just "gouging". That can exist in some cases, but that is going away more and more everyday with the ability of consumers to research their purchase on sites such as this. In most cases, the higher price reflects a business that is sustainable more than it does a greedy sleazeball, and those tantalizingly low prices that people choose everyday are offered by here today, gone tomorrow contractors. I read an article recently (Remodeling magazine May/June issue) stating that 30% of window replacements are done on windows "around 7 years old". As similarly large percentage of work completed in this industry and home remodeling in general, is "rework" of jobs done poorly or left incomplete by these small contractors. Coming back around to the topic at hand though, as a window dealer, I'd want to sell and install a great product with a great reputation, few services issues, will be around for a long time because they don't have other dealers not paying their bills, and not have to deal daily with being undercut by countless schmucks that will go out of business in a year. As a matter fact, those guys typically only sell that product because its easier for them to undercut and steal business from a larger company with an established reputation than it is to build your own reputation.

Lastly, while there are some markets where there may truly only be one exclusive dealer of a product, most areas have a small handful of guys to choose from. There's not only ONE great window available, there are several that are recommended and have great performance, so even if you are in an area that on has one dealer of a particular product, you should have a few others with comparable products.

My advice: do the research (as you are), narrow down your choices to a few great options (something like Softlite Elements, Okna, Sunrise Restorations), and then find a dealer or two that serve your area that DO have a stellar reputation. There are not too many places that won't have a reputable, local window install company that sells a great, high performance window. Again, most markets have at least a few to choose from.

Am I being unreasonable as a potential customer, to send this Q& A to a window dealer for 24 double hung vinyl windows and one crank out window, after they've been to my house and seen the setup:

Air Infilt.Rate?

U Factor?

SHGC?

CRF?

PG Grade?

Visible Transmittance?

Window cost Each? Installation Cost Each?

Dbl. Pane? Argon ? Low E? Sloped Sill ?

What are all of the above data points if we buy triple pane glass with Argon windows? How many locks are there per window?

How much more or less would antique brass locks be per window?

How is frame held together?

How does moisture in sash get out?

What is the window insulation made of?

What kind of balance system in window?

What kind of spacer system?

How many seals does spacer system have?

What is the % of gas fill?

How is Low E applied?

How many coats of a silver or silver oxide (for Low E)?

The reception I'm receiving locally is as if I'm asking about US Gov't secrets? They call me up and give me a bunch of verbal jargon, architectural info, but won't write anything down or simply respond to my emailed one sheet questions.

I just would like to know exactly what I'd potentially be buying for $25,000 - $28,000!, I'm 63 years old and don't ever want to go through this torture of researching the best/better windows, the best/better trained installers, and regional availability all with a fair price tag.

Yes, you’re being unreasonable to ask about cost breakdowns on that month long laundry list. The spec sheet from the manufacturer and their website should answer 90% of the technical questions without you asking the rep. Asking all of that shows that you have NOT done your research, and are really only focused on cherry picking pricing. That technical info exists for anyone who actually is interested in the quality details. You just didn’t do the research. If you don’t know at least half of that info, then why are you even potentially asking for them to work with you? It’s disingenuous. And it’s just plain tacky to try to bury the lead like that. How high school.

That’s the worst kind of customer that exists. One who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. You are after a bottom line quote for a steak meal, with a Burgundy, gratuities, and coat check included. Not trying to pull out the cost of fries from McDonald’s Value Meal. If you want McDonalds, go to Depot and buy their $100 windows and hire an uninsured and unlicensed Craigslist handyman. Repeat in 4-5 years.

live_wire_oak, are you having a bad day today? Wow! Easy to spew vitriol on the internet.

You are very quick to judge someone you've never met.

I have done as much research that one can, being a customer and not a certified window installer. I am a customer who has never bought windows before and hope never will again, after this. For me, it is NOT about the lowest price, it is about the combination of the best available window installed by the best company that will be there if any window issues arise in the future.My friends and family, when asked about which windows they would install, all say those brand names that heavily advertise around western Massachusetts: Andersen and Marvin.

My research tells me that those are not the most energy efficient, and are middle of the road at best, yet are $400-$700 just for the window.

The window company in my post install windows made by Sunrise, but the say they have no model, but closely resemble Sunrise Vanguard, after I asked them to call their supplier. Am I to assume that ALL of the Vanguard specs match their window?

Besides, the window manufacturer websites do not have all of that info/data available in one place. One has to read through countless technical architectural docs to glean tidbits of info.

The questions I wrote are from a Windows 101 from the Sunrise Website. My thoughts are that a window expert who does nothing but sell that brand windows, could answer those questions in five minutes. The decision to buy or not, for me, would be crystal clear at that point.

There's no need for any of us not to be kind to one another when posting or replying.

By posting on this forum, I'm asking for help from those more knowledgeable about Windows and factory trained window installation, to further my research.

"Andersen and Marvin...My research tells me that those are not the most energy efficient, and are middle of the road at best"

Wow, that is quite a statement. Says who? It disregards entirely that each of those brands have several lines, at different price points, that perform differently. I can only say that I have Marvin wood-clad windows. They have performed outstandingly, and I live in a challenging climate. Would vinyl windows be more energy efficient? Certainly. Would they be as beautiful and give me the same pleasure every time I look at my home? Nope, not for me anyway.

Furthermore, you say nothing about the installation. You're just sending questions to contractors, and I guess if they answer those questions (from looking up the specs) you are happy. Not whether those contractors have an excellent reputation and referrals. You could have the best windows made on Planet Earth, and without a good installer, it won't matter. Spend more time on that.

@ HomeSealed Exteriors, LLC , thank you for your very informative response. If we had a company who represented their product and discussed the info as you have, in my area, and installed/sold one of the top 4 or 5 vinyl windows that I have discussed, they would have my respect and business. With the help of this and other forums, I will continue to educate myself about windows, and keep looking.