When White Privilege Turns Karmic

Gizmo

Admin leave from job and lost her dog too.

Do black Franklin Templeton employees now have to fear her if they call her on something at work?



NYC Woman Calls In Fake Threat Claim On Black Man, Karmic Justice Is Swift

This was really infuriating. By Susie Madrak

This was just insane. A white woman named Amy Cooper called NYC cops after a birdwatcher named Christian Cooper asked her to leash her dog in a section of Central Park that requires her to do so, and told them in a hysterical voice "an African American man is threatening me." Now her world is (deservedly) falling apart.

The episode went viral after the birdwatcher's sister posted this on Twitter:

Video: https://crooksandliars.com/2020/05/woman-who-called-cops-black-man-placed


Melody Cooper @melodyMcooper

Oh, when Karens take a walk with their dogs off leash in the famous Bramble in NY’s Central Park, where it is clearly posted on signs that dogs MUST be leashed at all times, and someone like my brother (an avid birder) politely asks her to put her dog on the leash.

Twitter, of course, did its thing and tracked her down as an employee of an investment firm -- which has now placed her on administrative leave.


To continue:https://crooksandliars.com/2020/05/woman-who-called-cops-black-man-placed

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Watch the video at that linked source above. The whole scene is unreal--like what is wrong with that woman--and thank goodness her dog survived the choking she was giving him.

And thank goodness the "black man" who wanted to watch birds and asked her to leash her dog, per city orders, had the determination not to be victimized by the crazy lady!

Amazing video!

Kate

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Psych eval stat

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graywings123(7)

She damn near strangled her own dog. Someone should report her to Animal Control.

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Kathy

She could have got the man killed by the police by calling in a fake claim. That is more serious than meets the eye.

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Nana H

I heard that they took the dog away from her.......whack a doodle...not the dog..her.

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Kathy

Good thing. I couldn’t watch her drag that dog by his collar. He had already been abused and she rescued him.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Note in the video how she is the aggressor, charges the camera wagging her finger. She was not afraid at all (which is what she claimed after the fact). She just wanted to get the guy in trouble. That being said, she has apologized and I do hope that she has learned a big lesson about how her actions were racist. And I hope she gets help. The way she was treating that poor dog made me think that she has other problems.

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patriciae_gw(07)

She has apologized profusely but apparently because this blew back on her big time. I too was horrified to see her dragging that poor dog around by its collar. It was a rescue dog and the rescue society took it back. The police arrived acting on a report of an assault. This man is so lucky the police acted professionally.

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dirtygert(5-NY)

The thing about it was --- the poor dog wouldn't have been choked (and would have been much easier to handle for the owner) if she had just leashed the dog. BUT, she was not about to give in and do that because the man had asked her to. Nope, she had to make a fuss, make a point. She gets exactly the reviling she deserves.

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Gizmo

Central Park woman apologizes for trying to falsely report ‘African-American man threatening’ her life

Published 7 hours ago

on May 26, 2020

By Brad Reed

Amy Cooper, the white woman who called the police on a black man who
asked her to put her dog on a leash in a public park, has issued a
public apology.

After a viral video showed her calling 911 and falsely claiming that
Central Park bird watcher Christian Cooper was “threatening my life,”
Amy Cooper late on Monday said she was sorry and that her call wasn’t
motivated by racism.

“I’m not a racist,” she said, according to CNN. “I did not mean to harm that man in any way.”

She went on to say that she didn’t properly consider how calling the
police could negatively affect Christian Cooper’s well being.

“When I think about the police, I’m such a blessed person,” she said.
“I’ve come to realize especially today that I think of [the police] as a
protection agency, and unfortunately, this has caused me to realize
that there are so many people in this country that don’t have that
luxury.”

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I think by the time the police arrived no one was there.

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dandyfopp

Racist piece of trash and absolutely knew that she was putting that man in danger in saying he was threatening her. Recording her might have saved his life.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Guess what.

If it wasn’t racially motivated she wouldn’t have qualified “an African American man.” She didn’t wait to be asked for a description of the assailant. She went straight to reporting his race even though it would be the least useful descriptor for helping police find him.

She even added that to her threat when she told him she was going to call the police.

She used his racial identity as a cudgel against him and she did it deliberately because she thought it would scare him to have the police sicced on him. In My Opinion.

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Stan Areted

I watched this video earlier; from the viewpoint of the person taking the video--apparently the victim, this woman revealed her entitlement and nasty streak.

Typical entitled woman. Racist, even?

Much is made of the color of her skin and assumptions about her "white privilege," noted on the OP title.

My question is, if it turns out this woman votes democrat, is a liberal (and my bets are this Karen IS), what is it that makes her such a bad person, her liberalism, her sex, or the color of her skin? Maybe the typical hysteria of women that are angry and don't like to be called out when they are caught breaking the rules?

I'll bet she owns a pink kitty hat with ears.

If the victim had been yellow, or the colors of their skins reversed, would this event be as important? Would it be as "karmic" or would it warrant a thread?

Looks like Joe was only Pied Pipering his Prejudiced Peeps.

Points to consider.


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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

The issue is that she used his skin colour as a weapon against him, secure in her belief that her version of events would be believed even though she was making it all up.

No matter what colour *she* is or what her political affiliation.

”What makes her such a bad person?” Her racist lying attempt to destroy a man over a minor inconvenience.

There was a little room in my mind for a genuine psychological disorder that caused her to panic in a way that was out of proportion to the situation. Then I read her apology. She knew what she was doing the entire time and she did it deliberately.

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Gizmo

Stan Areted

I
watched this video earlier; from the viewpoint of the person taking the
video--apparently the victim, this woman revealed her entitlement and
nasty streak.

Typical entitled woman.

Much is made of the color of her skin and assumptions about her "white privilege," noted on the OP title.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gee Stan, maybe you should talk to Emmett Till's family about that white privilege thing and what followed.

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bry911

My question is, if it turns out this woman votes democrat, is a liberal (and my bets are this Karen IS), what is it that makes her such a bad person, her liberalism, her sex, or the color of her skin?

Her actions. Try making a determination based on what people do rather than what side they are on, or what benefit you think they will get you.


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blfenton

".....what is it that makes her such a bad person, her liberalism, her sex, or the color of her skin?" -stan

Her behaviour is what makes her such a bad person. Her desire to make trouble for a fellow human being enjoying the park and her treatment of her dog is what makes her a bad person.

And her apology shows that she doesn't get it.

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Stan Areted

Just wondering if the left will claim her if she's white AND liberal and if not why, and if so, why.

Trying to see some consistency.

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Penny

She’s a vain entitled little b and deserves exactly what she got... her dog was taken back where it came from before she strangled it. And her company fired her. Karma is a you know what. This Karen will rue the day she took on a kind soft spoken Harvard grad who only asked her to obey the law.

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Stan Areted

OH, the plot has thickened now, the woman has lost her job.

Seems she was in "the brambles" which I'm sure many of you know, but apparently not the most open or safest of places in Central Park.

Even the man that took the video, Christian Cooper, reported what he said to her and the actions he took:


"Christian Cooper said the incident began calmly. The Ramble is a great area to bird-watch, he said, but dogs off leash can disrupt the birds and plants.

"If the habitat is destroyed, we won’t be able to go there to see the birds, to enjoy the plantings," Christian Cooper told NBC New York.

Christian Cooper wrote on his Facebook that he asked for the dog's leash to be put on, but Amy Cooper wouldn't. He said he then told her, "if you're going to do what you want, I'm going to do what I want, but you're not going to like it."Christian Cooper said he then pulled out dog treats that he carries around. He told CNN that he carries them because he knows dog owners often don't want a stranger to feed their dogs so they immediately restrain it. Amy Cooper said Christian Cooper was throwing the treats at her dog, which Christian Cooper denied. That's when Christian Cooper started recording. "Can you please stop? Sir, I'm asking you to stop," Amy Cooper says in the video as she grabs her dog by its collar and walks toward Christian Cooper."USA TODAY May 26 20


Apparently Mr. Cooper was bound and determined to consider himself a law enforcement officer at that point and force Ms.Cooper to put that leash on her dog--which she was supposed to do, but no one was apparently in danger. Christian Cooper's words after confronting the woman who did not want to leash her dog when he told her to, were, "if your'e going to do what you want, I'm going to do what I want, but you're not going to like it."


Where I live, that wouldn't happen. Christian Cooper would know better than to say anything like that. He knew it would threaten Amy Cooper, who appears to be slight in build. He appears to be a pretty big guy, certainly threatening in build in addition to his words and tenor.

I wonder how many women have been raped, robbed, beaten or murdered in The Rambles in Central Park? There appears to be a history there.


This totally changes how I earlier perceived this story--I should have known better, race baiting cards are being played to distract from old racist Joe Biden.



Oops--there's more, since I posted earlier today.

MSN has looked up her political contributions, and guys YOU OWN HER she's ONE OF YOURS just like I suspected! Already online she's being accused of being a Trump supporter, a racist, a dog hater, and by golly she's a contributor to Barack Obama, Pete Buttigieg, and John Kerry.
















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jmm1837

What the heck does any of this have to do with left vs right? The woman was not acting on political principle but out of entitlement. If you can only see this in political terms, you really have warped vision.

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barncatz

Why should "the left" claim her? It's not a club where payment is exchanged for entry; it's not a family where when you go home they supposedly have to take you.

She lied to a 911 worker in the middle of pandemic, while dragging an innocent animal around as if it were a purse, and each individual can react as they wish, no matter her political views, for cripes sake

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Where I live, that wouldn't happen. Christian Cooper would know better than to say anything like that.

IOW Mr. Cooper would know his proper place.

Not sure I would want to live there.

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Stan Areted

Mr. Cooper would know that people would be prepared when he says threatening things to them and tries to get the attention of their dog by giving them treats in the middle of the woods. Anyone would

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bleusblue2

We haven't seen the whole interaction. I believe that he was being calm but if he said, "you won't like it" -- she panicked -- because of -- yes -- a subliminal fear of African American men that she may not have realised until she found herself alone in the park. At no time does she say that he walked toward her -- in fact she says he "threw the dog treats at her dog" Either he did or he didn't but she perceived a threat because of race and his size. She's ashamed to have to confront her own bias and publicly at that. She should also be ashamed that she her dog was illegally off leash and when she was called on it SHE challenged the man who was telling her to put her dog on the lead.

This is NOT a right/left issue but it gets at the heart of the history that's been shadowing the US since its beginnings.

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dandyfopp

What the heck does any of this have to do with left vs right?

Looking for a way to deflect the overt and disgusting racism this woman displayed.

Why it is felt necessary, no clue.

I don't speak for THE LEFT but I bet a lot of them would be amenable to claiming this wacko when Donnie fans claim the Blood and Soil nazis sharing air with them at Donnie rallies... Donnie says they are very fine people if that helps.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Mr. Cooper would know that people would be prepared when he says threatening things to them

And they would do what?

Weigh the testimony of both parties?

Make sure the woman had her dog on leash as required?

.

The woman called 911 -- other than vigilante justice, what else should/could be done?

The woman was clearly in the wrong.

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Iris GW

Stan, that is quite the pretzel you're working there.

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bry911

Just wondering if the left will claim her if she's white AND liberal and if not why, and if so, why.

You have touched on the real problem in politics today. Too many people tie their identity to some binary party selection. I have no problem with this person being a liberal and wouldn't think lesser of the Republican party were she a Republican. I do think lesser of people who need to judge any action or support thereof based on the party of those involved. People and presidents are sometimes right and sometimes wrong regardless of their party.

Liberals are not lesser because of the actions of one person who identifies as a liberal any more than women are lesser because one woman who abused her child. It is a problem when you turn the world into two groups those who think like you and those who are wrong. The problem being, it isn't too far from those who look like you those who are wrong...

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Lol Stan apart from your diatribe we all knew the rest of the details, having read the story in the OP and watched the video *before* commenting.

I couldn’t care less if she voted for Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Jesus Christ, or the little green men. She was vastly beyond wrong and I’m glad she is being held accountable.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Side notes:

-this is not Karma which is the concept of the universe restoring equilibrium by sending random bad things to happen to people who do wrong. If her dog got killed by a car or she got attacked on the way home, that would be karma. What happened is a predictable consequence of her actions. If we keep attributing these consequences to “karma” we lose the concept of accountability to our fellow humans.

-I think that Karen (and all its iterations) is one of the prettiest names ever and I just absolutely hate that it’s become a pejorative.

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blfenton

I agree miss lindsey about using the name "Karen" as an insult. I have a cousin named Karen who is a social worker dealing with at risk teens and their families. You couldn't ask for a more dedicated or nicer person.

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Penny

I’m a liberal and I do not claim her. Mr Cooper is unthreatening birdwatcher and I know the Brambles is a bird lover paradise . No way should a dog be off it’s leash disturbing nesting birds on the ground. Mr Cooper , a distinguished member of the Audubon board. can thank his lucky stars he doesn’t live in the south. I’m glad too.

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foodonastump

Several mentions of Bramble here... I believe it’s the Ramble, or are we talking a different section?

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Stan Areted

Anyone throws treats at your dog when you're alone with them in the woods, and he interrupts you and tells you to leash your dog, that would make me wonder if he wants to distract me, or wants the dog not able to attack him if he were up to no good. The words they were having when she didn't immediately "obey" his command to leash the dog, and then him throwing treats at the dog would tell me he was up to no good--then his chilling comment which was not recorded by him that "if you're going to do what you want, I'm going to do what I want, but you're not going to like it" put her over the edge into fear and rightfully so.

Upon learning all of this additional information, she had every right to be afraid, skin color or not--anyone, man or woman, black or white, would be considered a threat.

I change sides now. I'm on the side of the likely kitty hat wearer.

It's a shame she lost her job. Figures her employer would cave to political correctness.

This guy should have left her alone or reported her not having the dog on a leash without confronting her.

He was out of line harrassing her about the leash and using threatening words and actions to this woman.




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terezosa / terriks

He was out of line for asking her to follow the law??!

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terezosa / terriks

As soon as he asked her to leash her dog she should have said "I'm so sorry" and immediately leashed the dog in accordance with the law.

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KarenS, NYC

I am soooo very glad this ended well & Kudos to the authorities for acting calmly & appropriately. It could have ended very differently.

Also, I wish there was a way to apologize to the Birder Man, while I'm not personally responsible, I'm sorry & ashamed for this woman's atrocious behavior. Absolute entitlement, so fortunate the Birder Man's sister was videoing & that other Birders in the Ramble backed up his story.

Part of why Central Park works is that generally speaking, NYers are a united community in things like the Park & keeping it safe & law abiding. By & large folks in the Park abide by the rules & know their Park well enough to know which rules govern different particular areas of the Park.

May this nasty woman enjoy her unemployment & be barred from owning more animals in the future; what a CREEP.

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KarenS, NYC

You all miss the point, a responsible pet owner would not have allowed it to get to this point 'cause they never would have taken the dog off leash there in the first place. They honor the responsibility of their pet ownership, that's part of the deal. It's also what's safest for the dog, not lost on the Owners either.

At the very outside, she could have done as suggested above; apologized &/or leashed the dog when asked. I'm sure that would have been the end of it.

PS: My name is Karen & I've liked it all my life. I wish they'd leave it alone & remove this distasteful association it's come to have.

It was enough that I grew up overseas, in a country w/ no 'K' in their alphabet, so my name was tripped over or mispronounced whenever a Brasilian tried to read it. That happened 'til I was 10 & returned to America.

Pls, on a personal level, don't aid in the corruption of my name.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I’d like to know what *proof* there is that he used threatening words and actions. We’ve all seen what value we can place on her word. She flat out lied to emergency services.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I believe she admitted she wasn't afraid but any claim that she was is instantly refuted by watching the video. She continually takes her eyes off the man and when she has her head practically down between her knees as she continues to practically throttle her dog that man as a threat is not on her mind. Her escalation of voiced fear as she does that is so telling. This wont fly stan.

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gail618

I walk through The Ramble alone frequently and the spot where the people gather to birdwatch, which I'm guessing is where they were, is very open and there are always many people sitting around with binoculars waiting for birds. Plus, if you are afraid to go in the ramble, don't go in the ramble.

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dandyfopp

Speaking of karma, the man who hung Governor Beshear in effigy lost his job today.

On the bright side he has more time for GI Joe dress up.

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adoptedbyhounds

What does this story have to do with white privilege?

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Stan Areted

Nothing.

It's a woman that thought she didn't have to obey the rules, a man that by God was going to make her follow rules and intimidate or scare her, a woman who then got scared, and a vindictive man that used it for a race card and now she's unemployed and she'll never use the word African American again. And now he'll have 15 minutes of fame.


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patriciae_gw(07)

Wont fly Stan. And who used race?

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Stan Areted

The woman who was afraid of a large African American man tossing treats to her dog and using threatening words by his own account.

She was giving a desciption, which helps in apprehending people that threaten others.

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jmm1837

She lied, Stan. He wasn't threatening her. She used his skin color to demonize him to guys who carry guns. Her behavior was despicable.

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Stan Areted

Hey I was on his side earlier today.

She is no peach, and that was exposed.

He exacerbated and encouraged the reaction with his actions and words.

That I think did cause her to become very afraid.

Judge her for that, it was her reaction, which I did not understand earlier in the day in the video. He didn't show us everything in that video.

It's of no import, just one exchange over a leash in a remote uncrowded area.

I wonder if Mr. Cooper would have been so forward if she had a pit bull dog instead.

Act like a jerk someone's going to call the police, just a matter of who gets to it first.

There were two jerks in that video

Wonder if it has something to do with black and white people, a man and a woman, two democrats, a dog owner and a bird watcher, or being New Yorkers?

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Iris GW

In the meantime, a black man in Minnesota is dead. But this guy, he should just shut up and go away? I believe it is called raising awareness of the way black people, and black men in particular, are treated with suspicion, hostility, and even deadly force in this country.

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jmm1837

Unbelievable. Elvis and I had a dispute on another thread about the American psyche. I argued that there was no single psyche shared by all Americans. I hope I was right.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Stan, actually watch the video for heaven sakes.

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terezosa / terriks

She lost her job because she can't be trusted now w/other black employees or the firm's black customers

And because she's a liar.

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bry911

She lost her job because she can't be trusted now w/other black employees or the firm's black customers

No. She lost her job because her actions and the company's response to those actions reflect on the company. Silence gives consent... Franklin Templeton chose to dismiss an employee who behaved this way because it is a reflection of their company to their clients, and is not the image they want to project to those clients.

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Stan Areted

patriciae

Stan, actually watch the video for heaven sakes.


Please don't say things like that.

When you say things like that it is a time waste and it is JUDGMENTAL of another poster. It's also an admonition, which was silly because I did watch it.

If you don't like my opinion, don't read it. But don't tell me to watch a video and assume I did not.

I watched the video earlier yesterday before I even posted about it.

I only wish Mr. Cooper had recorded what he said and did prior to recording Ms. Cooper's actions.

I think they were both jerks and I don't care what happens to either one of them.

I'm glad I don't live around controlling people like these New Yorkers that decided to turn on one another. No doubt they're both liberals, as I have since learned that Mr. Cooper's claim to fame, other than being very involved in the ornithological world (that's great) is that he "invented" a gay Star Trek type character for Marvel Comics.

Little kids gotta dream.

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Stan Areted

bry911


No. She lost her job because her actions and the company's response to those actions reflect on the company. Silence gives consent...


This is right.


Unfortunately, a person's entire career and livelihood can be ruined over a moment like this, not particularly bad people but jerks and controlling jerks, both doubling down over an insignificant event, determined to control the other person.


This doesn't apply to pig trough criminal politicians and their crooked justice department lackeys--they just write a book, which is what I suggest to Ms. Cooper if she needs to pay her rent and feed her kids.

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foodonastump

She was giving a desciption, which helps in apprehending people that threaten others.


I don’t know if you’ve ever been to NYC but African American men are not a rarity there. If she were giving a description for the purposes of apprehension, she certainly would have mentioned his race but it would have moved beyond that. Size? Age? Hair? Clothing? Something beyond repeatedly stating his race. Clearly she did that not to assist in an apprehension, but because she thought it painted a picture of the threat.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Her attitude is disgusting. End of discussion.

Kate

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Stan Areted

foodonastump

I don’t know if you’ve ever been to NYC but African American men are not a rarity there. If she were giving a description for the purposes of apprehension, she certainly would have mentioned his race but it would have moved beyond that. Size? Age? Hair? Clothing? Something beyond repeatedly stating his race. Clearly she did that not to assist in an apprehension, but because she thought it painted a picture of the threat.


Yes I've been to NYC.

Yes I'm familiar with "African American" men and women.

They're not some animal to be talked about, they are human beings and among my friends. They KNOW how this works. Also they don't like being called African Americans where I live--they don't like me to call them anything except for lunch, and it would be an insult to my friends to refer to them by race; they don't refer to me as "white" "caucasian" or "French" or "Greek," or "Irish."

She was fearful and he was recording--do you honestly think she should have been guessing about his height, his weight? His clothing? She was under duress and he was listening. She did say there was an African American man and he had "a bicycle helmet."

Nuff said.

Just because there are a lot of MEN around doesn't mean it's not worthy of mentioning the person you feel threatened by is a MAN.

Just because there are a lot of BLACK MEN or WHITE MEN around doesn't mean you don't use that descriptor; in fact, sex and race should be the FIRST descriptors given to the police.

There is nothing wrong with that.

She may or may not have thought "it painted a picture of the threat."

I don't know and neither do you. I think it painted that she was likely fearful of that fact, and based on stastistics coupled with his admitted words to her and his actions towards her dog, she had grounds.

It's quite interesting how if you're white you can't be threatened, but you can be considered threatening.

It's also quite interesting how if you're black you are always threatened, but you cannot be considered threatening.

Only in a gotcha controlling liberal world.

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dandyfopp

Yes you can tell how scared she was by how she didn't run, lunged toward the guy she was so scared of while faking an attack on the call with 911.

All while choking a rescue dog.


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katrina_ellen

I want some of this white privilege I keep hearing about, I have no silver spoon either. No college paid for by parents or no privileges that money buys you, I had to make my own way but I keep hearing I have these privileges nobody else has, lol.

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foodonastump

I don't know and neither do you.


I’m pretty comfortable with my assessment.

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foodonastump

KE - Clearly you have no idea what white privilege is. I don’t love the term because I don’t think of it as a privilege so much as basic decency that others are not afforded, but it does exist. And it has nothing to do with finances.

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bry911

I want some of this white privilege I keep hearing about, I have no silver spoon either. No college paid for by parents or no privileges that money buys you, I had to make my own way but I keep hearing I have these privileges nobody else has, lol.

Please stop... White privilege is not about silver spoons or paid college. You don't get to decide things mean whatever you want them to. I assure you that white privilege exists, there is simply too much data to back it up. This event is a great demonstration of it, and no matter how much you want to argue some red herring, it does exist.

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Stan Areted

katrina ellen:

I want some of this white privilege I keep hearing about, I have no silver spoon either. No college paid for by parents or no privileges that money buys you, I had to make my own way but I keep hearing I have these privileges nobody else has, lol.

LOL, it's like a unicorn, right?



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Stan Areted

Yes you can tell how scared she was by how she didn't run, lunged toward the guy she was so scared of while faking an attack on the call with 911.

All while choking a rescue dog.


Ever been in the wilds of Alaska and come upon a bear?

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abzzybee(9/10 S. Florida)

^^^^ bry911, proof, facts, data you base your statement on?

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bry911

Unfortunately, a person's entire career and livelihood can be ruined over a moment like this, not particularly bad people but jerks and controlling jerks, both doubling down over an insignificant event, determined to control the other person.

First, I don't know that her life and career have been ruined. She lost her job and now she will have to work to find another one. Hopefully, when this is all over her life will have a new perspective.

I will note that there is a Karmic justice to her situation. Without thought of how this might affect his life she exaggerated her report of the situation. Without second thought she fabricated an urgency and danger she knew she wasn't in, in order to win. Now it is affecting her life in a similar manner to which it might have affected his.

----

There are millions of people who lose their jobs over one mistake. Many not as deliberate as this one. Actions have consequences. There are many men and women who have ruined their life and career with a single mistake and many of those less nefarious than this one.

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how2girl

https://theundefeated.com/features/why-do-so-many-white-people-deny-the-existence-of-white-privilege/


Many white people rebut the notion that white privilege augments their lives. That’s because they consume the world in a specific manner, through what sociologist Joe Feagin calls the “white racial frame.” Think of a frame as the process by which people take in new information, sift through the data, sort the important from the unimportant and decide how to feel about it all.


Feagin argues that American culture has taught whites to believe they represent the intellectual and cultural vanguard, to conclude that racial inequalities cannot be traced to their past or present behavior and to view their dominant status — their privilege — as natural and yet invisible.

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foodonastump

Bry- I’m glad you jumped in. To go off topic a bit and add yet another Cooper to the mix, I’m wondering what your reaction was to Rutgers’ distancing from but failure to act on (last I saw) Dr. Brittney Cooper‘s tweets a few weeks back. And the nerve of her transparently hiding behind the protection of tenure.

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bry911

abzzybee(9/10 S. Florida)

^^^^ bry911, proof, facts, data you base your statement on?

I don't mind providing some evidence, but I am not going to spend all day providing links to studies that you can find yourself.

Here are some... A black man is 3.7 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than a white man. A black man is 3.5 times more likely to be incarcerated before his trial than a white man. When compared to non-hispanic whites, they are overcharged almost 50% of the time. They are also more likely to be charged in the first place, have harsher sentences, less chance of being paroled, etc.

When looking at product placement in stores, products that appeal to African American shoppers were more difficult to find and didn't change in relation to customer make-up and sales results. When looking at mainstream grocers and merchandisers products that were more popular with African Americans were placed in less prominent locations and they were underordered, even when the store couldn't maintain stock. Let's not talk studies here... Do the experiment yourself. Go count the hair products that cater to African American women in large retailers in different demographic regions.

For more you can actually read the essay that started us thinking about it...

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack.

Or...

The Report to the United Nations on Racial Disparity in the US Criminal Justice System.

Or...

Google Scholar.

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bry911

To go off topic a bit and add yet another Cooper to the mix, I’m wondering what your reaction was to Rutgers’ distancing from but failure to act on (last I saw) Dr. Brittney Cooper‘s tweets a few weeks back.

I hate to admit this, but I honestly don't know what you are talking about. A few weeks ago I was knee deep in finishing online classes, preparing/grading finals and advising. If it didn't make the front page of reddit you can assume I didn't see it, and if it looked like it was going to take too much of my time, you can assume I avoided it.

Sorry

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foodonastump

Again, I think it’s the name/term itself that leads to misunderstanding the concept. An expectation to be treated fairly should not be looked at as a privilege. The problem is not whites being treated fairly, it’s minorities being treated unfairly.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

White privilege to me: All other things being equal (economic, social, political, etc), the mere fact that a person is white gives them benefits and advantages over people of other races.

Just imagine being a black parent having to give your son a talk about how to handle police encounters because such interactions can go horribly wrong, ending with their son dead. White people never have to give that talk because they are "privileged".

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Ziemia(6a)

sweet - we are seen here...

And yes, some liberals are racist. We even have seen it here. And they become very anti-liberal when thinking about schools and housing.

And some conservatives are not racist. Also true for libertarians (who tend to get lumped with conservatives but are actually very liberal in many policies).

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I, for one, think it's time to stop beating up on Amy Cooper. She realizes what she did was wrong.

It's time for her to start repairing her life and making amends. She should start by asking the man she wronged to go for coffee to apologize and talk about what happened and to try to learn how she can do better.

She made a mistake and now has to figure out a way to come back from it as a better person. It's no longer about her; it's now about setting an example for others.

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Ziemia(6a)

There are many, many opportunities beyond her words for her to redeem her public standing.

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foodonastump

I guess we all pick and choose when we like to use the broad brush, or cry about it.

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bleusblue2

I seldom think about the simple fact that -- I am white in this society.

In this society being black/African American means seldom able to forget your colour.

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catspa_zone9sunset14

She certainly needs to improve her situational awareness skills if, in fact, she really was fearful. Someone so obviously middle-class and a birder is hardly cause for concern, no matter what their color. When it comes to life-list pursuits they can be a little intense, but are an otherwise benign bunch. One of the principles of the consulting firm I do work for is one of the best birders I know, and black. Doesn't look anything like dangerous, either.

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Stan Areted

Oh, I've heard that song and dance for years.

# number of known murders.

# suspects arrested and convicted

There is your answer.

It is NOT that "every black person that was arrested was innocent."

Ask yourself why the black community in Chicago and Baltimore produces so much violence, why black women in the mid 90s on, stopped having so many babies without benefit of marriage and instead pursued education objectives and good jobs? They stopped because Gingrich and Clinton stopped paying them to do it.

The intentional subsidization of fatherless homes and encouraged illegitimacy

has produced way too many angry, violent young men. THAT should be addressed.

Same thing with these angry white suburban young men with parents that have no clue what their child's life is like, allowed to be influenced and become angry and shoot up schools.

Same thing--no matter the race, facts are there are stereotypes for a reason, and encouragement of substandard parenting by the government and society has allowed it to thrive.


Guess tingles are still going up the media's legs about the "white woman" getting her just desserts. This was a big nothing from both sides. Entitled liberal New Yorker problems.


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bleusblue2

https://research.msu.edu/innocent-african-americans-more-likely-to-be-wrongfully-convicted/

African-Americans More Likely to be Wrongfully Convicted


EXCERPT

African-American prisoners who were convicted of murder are about 50 percent more likely to be innocent than other convicted murderers and spend longer in prison before exoneration, according to a report released today that’s co-edited by a Michigan State University College of Law professor.


“The vast majority of wrongful convictions are never discovered,” said MSU Law’s Barbara O’Brien, the author of a companion report, “Exonerations in 2016,” and editor of the National Registry of Exonerations. “There’s no doubt anymore that innocent people get convicted regularly—that’s beyond dispute. Increasingly, police, prosecutors and judges recognize this problem. But will we do enough to actually address it? That remains to be seen.”

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lurker111

She's a democrat. :^)

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KarenS, NYC

Pls note my earlier comments dealt w/ the behaviors involved & never once mentioned skin color. It had nothing to do / the original problem, the unlawfully unleashed dog.

I think this woman is full of crap, she's not sorry for her actions. She's sorry she got caught & now she's sorry to be dealing w/ the consequences of losing her probably decent job & benefits. And usually the dog owner is not the one in fear.

If she'd really been afraid, she had ample time to walk or run away. Yet, at one point she actually looks down towards the ground, looking well away from the Birder, not the action of a fearful person.

Pretty gracious of him to express doubt as to whether her losing the job was going too far & perhaps not called for.

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adoptedbyhounds

"And who used race"

Did you forget the title of this thread?

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lurker111

Smollett.

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Current Resident(z4 WI)

Here's another stereotype for ya Stan: the middle class, educated, gainfully employed black man. If you cant discern the difference you really need to get out more.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Adopted, Amy Cooper used race.

Because we have people who like to parse the meaning of words I will take a moment to object to the word "mistake" What she did wasn't a mistake. It was intentional. She did a wrong and is sorry she did. Maybe she was sorry before it blew up in her face but she sure is sorry now that it has affected her so profoundly. I wonder if she would have carried through her intention to get the man arrested. I don't suppose she thought through her actual intentions.

It is always odd to me that people cant see how priviliged they are. Men don't often seem to recognize male privilege. That whites are a priviliged group in this country doesn't mean they always get what they want and that others don't get any advantages. It simply means the odds are always with you compared to others. We can list the inequities but it doesn't help if people refuse to learn. I remember Chase posting a story more than once of a well off black family, friends of hers, who ended up buying a beater car for their son. He had been driving a family car to school, a BMW and he kept being stopped by police for possibly driving a stolen car. They were terrified that eventually their son would be killed. The son was priviliged by wealth but it didn't over come the disadvantages of being black.

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Stan Areted

current resident:

Here's another stereotype for ya Stan: the middle class, educated, gainfully employed black man. If you cant discern the difference you really need to get out more.


What does that mean? "middle class, educated, gainfully employed black men.

There are a LOT OF THEM.

They don't negate the murderous thugs in Baltimore and Chicago.

That's who we are discussing, and why a white woman could be afriad of a black man making threatening gestures to distract her dog and a very out-of line comment to her that she wasn't go to like what he was going to.

You don't know what I discern or don't discern, but you're certainly grasping at straws. You have no idea how much I get out, don't get out, what my background or life is like, so I will tell you that your personal comments are out of line and totally irrelevant to the comment.

Better luck next time playing with big dogs.


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KarenS, NYC

How dare you make her out to be the Victim, when she was in fact the Aggressor!!! I repeat, we're all lucky this did not end in any injuries; this could have gone VERY differently, especially had there not been video.

It's not overstating it to suggest the Birder's sister & her video, likely saved him from physical injury of a take down by the Cops.

It's past time White Folks everywhere stand up & say we won't stand silent for these assaults anymore. Not here, not now, no more.

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Stan Areted


Karen s NYC:

How dare you make her out to be the Victim, when she was in fact the Aggressor!!! I repeat, we're all lucky this did not end in any injuries; this could have gone VERY differently, especially had there not been video.

It's not overstating it to suggest the Birder's sister & her video, likely saved him from physical injury of a take down by the Cops.

It's past time White Folks everywhere stand up & say we won't stand silent for these assaults anymore. Not here, not now no more.




How dare you say how dare you for someone having a different opinion and seeing all sides of this equation?

ROTF! It's a F O R U M, be polite.


"we won't stand silent for these assaults anymore. Not here, not now no more."

By the way, the woman did not assault this man according to the laws of the State of New York.

Just a very important detail and another reason people don't respond to hysterics and mischaracterizations, and that is being generous.

I think if people truly cared, they'd crochet a new hat for this cause.

Someone could even hashtag: Save Our Ornithologists!

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

Stan,

you really show your real persona


---

there is something like information-bias


there are a plethora of wrongfull convictions of mostly African-Americans, made visible by DNA-testing (not to mention the wrong death-sentences)


the human brain is funny, and memories are not reliable, there is an urge for pattern recognition,


a very strong tendency to "fear THE others" etc


more than once "witnesses" swore that someone is guilty because they

a) were wrong

but


b) their brain was convinced that it was this particular black man



spinning the video of the "Karen" as anything other than a really low attack on that guy...


to word it politely, takes a lot of imagination or fantasy,


a fearful victim, really, smells much like BS

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Current Resident(z4 WI)

Um Stan, YOU may be discussing "murderous" thugs, but the rest of us are most assuredly not. We are talking about a middle class attired, bird-watcher who doesnt like dogs bothering birds in a no dog area, and who happens to be black. Sometimes things in life are exactly what they seem to be.

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

Funny, youtube offered this other instance of a


bad thug threatening Karen...


I see, what her problem is, those mean eyes, the gang jacket, odd choice of words (like too big, too many)



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dandyfopp


There is something wrong with these people that would take much therapy.

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Gizmo

Current Resident(z4 WI)

Um
Stan, YOU may be discussing "murderous" thugs, but the rest of us are
most assuredly not. We are talking about a middle class attired,
bird-watcher who doesnt like dogs bothering birds in a no dog area, and
who happens to be black. Sometimes things in life are exactly what they
seem to be.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But, but....she had 'fear' of the black man...

Christian Cooper was in New York’s Central Park on Memorial Day for birdwatching. The Harvard-educated, Audubon Society member
asked a woman who had let her dog run off-leash among the plantings to
comply with park postings that dogs be leashed in that area of The
Ramble. When she refused, he began filming her from a distance
and things escalated. The woman threatened to call the police, “I’m
going to tell them there’s an African American man threatening my life.”

She did.

“There is an African American man. I am in Central Park. He is
recording me and threatening myself and my dog,” she pleads into the
phone, dragging her cocker spaniel by the collar as it struggles for
air. She grows more hysterical with each repetition, “Please send the
cops immediately.” When she re-leashed her dog, Cooper said “thank you,”
stopped recording and left.

The race or sex of the Minneapolis grocery clerk is not clear from
reporting. The woman with the dog is white. We know because Christian
Cooper posted the video of his encounter on Facebook. News reports
indicate Amy Cooper (no relation) has been fired from her investment
firm job and surrendered her rescue dog. She has since apologized for her behavior. The Central Park Civic Association has called for her to be banned from the park.

Eliza Orlins, her Washington Post byline says, is a public defender
and Democratic candidate for Manhattan district attorney. She writes
that the Central Park park scenario is a familiar one:

As a public defender in Manhattan
for more than a decade, I have represented many people in similar
situations. Most of their stories have followed a similar pattern:

A
white person calls the police on a black man. The police arrive and
take the side of his white accuser, refusing to believe his version of
events. He is arrested and arraigned. An outrageous bail amount is set.
His family can’t afford to buy his freedom. He gets sent to Rikers
Island, where he sits for days, months or sometimes years.

Eventually,
his case is resolved in some way — either because the charges are
dismissed or because he decides to plead guilty to a lesser charge. In
the meantime, he may have lost his job, his home, his children or some
combination of the three.

In Christian Cooper’s case, none of these happened.

In cases I’ve taken to trial, the
district attorney has offered recordings of “hysterical 911 calls” as
evidence of my clients’ guilt, urging the jury to “just listen to the
fear in her voice,” saying, “You can tell she can sense a threat,” and
asking questions such as, “Why would she lie?” All too often, it works.

Usually,
there’s no video. On Monday, there was. You can hear “the fear” in the
voice of the woman who called the police on Cooper, too.

Bird-watcher Christian Cooper walked away. Dog-walker Amy Cooper lost her job.

Floyd died. The four officers lost their jobs. We don’t know what
happened to the grocery clerk or if the Minneapolis 911 call was
supportable or, like the Central Park incident, hysterical.

https://digbysblog.net/2020/05/counterfeit-threat-real-consequences/




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KarenS, NYC

Didn't filing a false Police Report used to be a crime? Maybe it's time to start charging people w/ some jail time, not just fines one can pay.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

She didn’t ever file a police report. She just made a 911 call and ditched the scene before police arrived.

Nice waste of taxpayer resources.

But I’m sure there wasn’t anything better for that 911 operator or the police officers who responded to be doing. /s

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Penny

Amy Cooper needs jail time for filling a bogus report. The least she needs to be fined. She was the aggressor charging at him. Luckily he lives in the civilized NYC and not the Deep South.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

"It's a F O R U M, be polite."


Listen to yourself sometimes. You are often less polite-sounding than you seem to believe you are. Sneering at fellow posters, as you often do, does not create a "polite" forum.

Kate

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tryingtounderstand

Just switching gears a bit. The Minneapolis incident is extremely brutal. This piece of news even made it to our local community newspaper. I would hate to be a black mother living in the USA. You do not want to watch the heart wrenching video! https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-301125-5-.htm#301125

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

“There is an African American man. I am in Central Park. He is
recording me
and threatening myself and my dog,”

At some point law enforcement will recognize -- if not already recognizing -- that a 911 call about an African American man recording an interaction/scene in which he is involved on his own phone that same African American man is most likely providing evidence for his innocence of whatever bogus charge will be made against him.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I hate watching that video. It's watching someone getting murdered in real time with people actually screaming to stop because the man is in distress. I think the cop who committed the crime will be arrested.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I didn’t watch the video, the various descriptions I’ve heard made me fully aware that it’s not an image I need or want. I know there are a couple of threads about it and maybe we could discuss it on those...

ETA https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5925527/minneapolis-police-teargas-george-floyd-protestors#n=9

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

We could do that, but what happened in Mpls is the whole point of this thread. NY could have turned into Mpls.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Very true jerzeegirl.

I hope I didn’t sound bossy or like I was reprimanding. I tried to “soften” my comment with the ellipsis but I know tone doesn’t always carry well in print.

I think this is a good place to show the juxtaposition of the two stories, and I would love to see the Minneapolis story get more traction in the wider forum too. I hope people post a lot about it on both threads :)

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

You did not sound bossy at all! I agree that watching the two stories unfold side by side really hits home but it's also quite sickening that even during a pandemic people managed to find the time to be ugly about race.

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adoptedbyhounds

"Adopted, Amy Cooper used race."

Not in dispute.

However, false reports are not an extension of "White Privilege," as the thread title suggests. There is no law permitting anyone of any color to file a false report with police. Jussie Smollette made stuff up and filed a false police report for which he will always be remembered.

Perhaps the young Ms. Cooper thought her gender entitled her to make stuff up about a man she didn't know. Not that long ago, Americans watched a parade of Democrats insist a women Brett Kavanaugh may or may not have known decades ago had victimized her.

Without providing even the most basic details like a date, time or place, or how she got there, how she got home, or names of persons who could verify any part of her story, Democrats looked into the TV cameras and invited grown up Americans to believe she was the victim.

It's always a good thing when fake victims are exposed.

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Ziemia(6a)

Cool deflection

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Amy Cooper’s rock solid belief that her completely fake story would be believed because it involved a black assailant is what demonstrates her white privilege.

The 911 operator had no idea of Amy’s race, but Amy believed that her story would be more likely to be taken seriously if she added the detail that the man is black. She revealed that when she made her initial threat: “I am going to call the police and tell them that an African American man is attacking me.” (Paraphrasing in quotes) That is what displays her privilege: she genuinely thought in her heart of hearts that the black man would be seen as a threat simply because he is black and she would be believed. As a white woman she had no paradigm to contradict that until now. A black or Hispanic or Indigenous woman would not have thought that.

Amy herself acknowledged that in her apology.

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barncatz

I had posted a comment responding to, and quoting part of, a posting by Stan. My comment is gone, I believe. I believe Stan's words that I responded to are also gone from his/her comments or the comment itself may be gone or I may have missed everything in my thread review.

Anyway, I cited Equal Justice Initiative, because Bryan Stevenson has done such a great job explaining the origin and long history of black men in America being perceived consciously or unconsciously as threats, the point Miss L makes so well in her comment. ^^^

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blfenton

My comment wrt a posting by Stan is also gone. I don't know why but whatever.

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jmm1837

The comment that incited a lot of outrage, mine included, does seem to have been deleted. I would have preferred it to remain, as a reminder of how far we still need to go achieve any kind of prejudice-free society.

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KarenS, NYC

Stan,

I wasn't rude to you at all. I was forceful, direct & to the point; maybe too blunt for you but in no way rude.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

My unsought advice is not to let it bother you KarenS. Some folks are just touchy.

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Current Resident(z4 WI)

The way that Ms. Drama Queen just switched on the "fear" the instant she reached 911 - quite clearly an act. But OK, for the sake of argument lets assume something was triggered in her brain and she was genuinely scared. Even so - we white folks need to get a grip.

Theres no excuse in 2020 to not being able to discern reality and to accurately identify and interact with individual specific black people in specific situations.

I say this as one who grew up in the remote rural midwest and never saw black folks except on tv so Im not without sympathy to others who grew up similarly impaired. We werent taught overt racism or cruelty, but did absorb messages from media and the grown ups around us that people different from us were to be feared. As adults we can choose to not act on the early programming.

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Stan Areted

OR, one could have grown up where one was and is surrounded by such crime.

If someone has grown up not seeing any "black folks" as you say, then you have no personal experiences and observations from which to draw.

I find those people are often the first to lecture others of that which they know nothing about.

That includes having "black folk" friends as you say, who share some background about that culture of crime and dependency in some.

Much more information is available through living situations which lend credence to these situations, much more knowledge and observations than people that have no experience.

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lurker111

This just proves that white privilege is a myth. That silly liberal thought white privilege and feminism were going to work for her against the black man. lol!

I really can't see a conservative getting upset about being asked to leash her dog. However, if you tell a liberal that she's in the wrong lane...look out! She'll try to turn the country against you.

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Linda

I know people who believe in "white privilege", it's like...they're saying "I'm white so I don't have to follow rules and you're black so I can make up lies about you".

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KarenS, NYC

I just saw the guy Chris Cooper & his Sister on the View. Both reasonable, calm well spoken & level headed people.

To hear him (Chris) recount that he & the woman, also last name Cooper (no relation, I'll call her Ms Cooper) were having a conversation, she was saying why she shouldn't have to leash the dog. He, having explained that it's POSTED at the Ramble, that dogs must be leashed there, offered her other options. She said she wanted her dog to exercise off leash, he pointed out other, non-protected areas of the Park where she could do this, but she found some objection to whatever he offered; it was too far or unsafe, or some other reason not to do it.

Their having a regular conversation, & THEN her calling 911 in that false threat is even more offensive & shows it was deliberate & premeditated on her part. Despicably shameful!!!

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bry911

This just proves that white privilege is a myth. That silly liberal thought white privilege and feminism were going to work for her against the black man.

Logic pretzel... It doesn't exist because it was attempted and failed?!?! Just out of curiosity if you try to run a marathon and fail, does the marathon exist? Asking for a friend.

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adoptedbyhounds

"Amy Cooper’s rock solid belief that her completely fake story would be
believed because it involved a black assailant is what demonstrates her
white privilege."

I disagree. Her sense of entitlement is real, but it's not limited to any actual "privilege." Her behavior carried consequences she wasn't expecting, because the US is not the hateful nation some of our own citizens have been conditioned to believe it is.

Cooper combined the preposterous Dem/MSM default position that we must "believe the women" with their other default position: "America is racist!"

Fortunately, this time fake news for political purposes barely got off the ground. The Dems/MSM did not get to spend days promoting political "outrage" (as they did with the televised abuse of the falsely accused Brett Kavanaugh, and the false accusations of Jussie Smollett) because her appalling behavior was recorded for all to see.

White privilege is an academic/MSM construct designed to smear the United States. It collapsed the moment Americans saw the video.

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bry911

The irony of this thread is just too rich... Stan started out wanting to know if liberals were going to recognize Amy Cooper as a liberal. I assumed that was because he wanted to attribute the actions of one liberal to the entire party. Apparently, he just wanted to claim her for his side...

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“White privilege” is a catch phrase used to quickly and easily communicate a specific subset of the American psyche.

Like all such catch phrases it is not 100% accurate all the time and it is not applicable to every single human being.

In this particular circumstance I am very comfortable attributing Amy Cooper’s brand of entitlement to White Privilege, and I gave my reasons above.

Amy herself said it was a reflection of her unique sense of security based on being a white person so I don’t know what there is to disagree with. She admits it.

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bry911

White privilege is an academic/MSM construct designed to smear the United States. It collapsed the moment Americans saw the video.

Those darn academics with their facts and data. When you pick your facts based on their support of your desired outcome, your world will always be exactly what you want it to be.

I can't make you open your eyes and I don't even care if you do, but walk into any chain store in an urban area with a low concentration of non-hispanic whites, be careful not to trip over the thing that you swear is made up.

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blfenton

In it's most basic and simplistic terms - When I'm walking down the street no one is going to cross the street to avoid me, when I get on a bus and sit down no one will hesitate to sit beside me, when I go into a jewelry store or a Coach store the security staff won't even look at me and people will be tripping over themselves to help me. That is the privilege of being white.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

All I can say is OMG.

Link

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jmm1837

Entitled nut job. That anyone could even attempt to defend her behavior is mind blowing.

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Lars(Z11a (coastal L.A.) and Z9a (desert))

I was in court one day in Austin, Texas in 1988, and there was a white man there who had spent the night in jail for having "dog at large". You could also spend the night in jail if you happen to drive without proof of insurance, even if you have insurance. They like to lock people up in Texas. I did like that they enforce leash laws in Texas, but I'm not sure they still put people in jail for a violation.

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