New Covid vaccine news

Ann

I found this article interesting about the 3 current leaders as far as potential vaccines. Also, something that caught my eye (and I find somewhat bothersome) is the China/Canada connection in the first vaccine discussed in the article.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/latest-on-global-search-for-coronavirus-vaccine-three-candidates-show-early-promise/ar-BB14tECs?ocid=spartandhp

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tryingtounderstand

Bothersome, why? Combatting this disease has taken on a global effort. These scientists are interested in developing a vaccine for all of humanity. Politics aside. Further, the vaccine would be produced on Canadian Soil.

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soupgirl53

Keeping my fingers crossed with respect to all vaccines being worked on by all companies around the world. We need a safe, effective vaccine or vaccines as soon as possible. Safe is just as important as effective.

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Iris GW

Like this news?

Moderna's stock price skyrocketed as much as 30% on Monday after the biotech company announced promising early results for its coronavirus vaccine. As ordinary investors piled in, two insiders were quietly heading for the exits.

Moderna's chief financial officer and chief medical officer executed options and sold nearly $30 million of shares combined on Monday and Tuesday, SEC filings reviewed by CNN Business show.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/investing/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-stock-sales/index.html

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Nana H

I'm glad that the international community is working together . We need the brightest of the bright working on a vaccine and the more teams around the world the better. A safe , effective vaccine can't come soon enough but it must be properly tested so people have the confidence to get it.

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Ann

"Bothersome, why?"

For what I think are very obvious reasons. For the exact opposite reason, I hope the U.S. will work very hard to move away from all association with China regarding important drugs and other goods. If we continue to import cheap tee shirts from China, that's one thing, but items like drugs or life saving equipment need to be separate from the Chinese Communist Government and created by U.S. companies or coordinated/purchased from reliable and trustworthy allies (and free countries).

I've been interested, in a troubling way, in Canada's connection with WHO leadership (e.g., Aylward) and with China in general. This appears to be yet another step in that direction. As this pandemic has demonstrated IMO, one should choose their allies and associations wisely and make adjustments to those associations as time evolves and information is learned. I'm beginning to wonder about our relationship with Canada and theirs with us and I'm beginning to wonder if we'll reach the point where our northern border eventually will and should remain permanently closed. If Canada has decided China is a "friend" regarding the pandemic, then our two countries sure might have reached different (and important) conclusions. Australia, Sweden, Germany, and others share concerns with the U.S. in connection to the pandemic.

More on this Canada/China association and info about new "mixed" results associated with the Chinese vaccine.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1188212.shtml


https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/22/early-study-of-covid-19-vaccine-developed-in-china-sees-mixed-results/


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roxsol

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5571264


.....“Trump said Friday that the world was co-operating to develop a vaccine.”

We've got countries that are allies — we have some countries, frankly, that are not allies — where we're working very closely together," Trump said. "We have no ego. Whoever gets it, we think it's great. We're going to work with them. They're going to work with us. Likewise, if we get it, we're going to be working with them."

When asked by a reporter if the U.S. would have access to a vaccine if it was first developed in China, Trump gave a one-word answer: "Yes."

No worries.

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Toby

Now you want to dictate to Canada who can or can't be their ally? If we bully them and they don't cry uncle, we should then close our border permanently? Listen to yourself.

We have not been a good ally to many countries over the past three and a half years. I could list dozens of reasons why.

If we had gotten a good trade deal with China before this pandemic, Trump would be singing its praises today.

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blfenton

Wasn't trump singing the praises of China and Xi back in February about how well they were doing with the pandemic and controlling the coronavirus?


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Ann

Roxsol, here is a very new and interesting article. For now, Canada is placing its financial bet on the Chinese/Cansino vaccine and the U.S. is placing its bet on the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine. From the linked article:

"It’s unclear whether a Cansino vaccine would ever make it to a U.S. market. In a May 17 note, Morgan Stanley analyst Matthew Harrison wrote that “China, India, and Russia” will likely use their own vaccines, and said that Cansino aims to produce 100 million or more doses in 2021. That target is far smaller than production targets set by Moderna,
Pfizer
(PFE), and others."


https://www.barrons.com/articles/chinese-covid-19-vaccine-trial-data-are-a-good-sign-for-j-j-and-astrazenecas-efforts-51590175723

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catspa_zone9sunset14

@Ann: For the exact opposite reason, I hope the U.S. will work very hard to move away from all association with China regarding important drugs and other goods.

Major science these days, more than ever and across all fields, is an international, collaborative effort. This is especially true, absent a "space race" type effort by the U.S. as occurred after Sputnik, and Republicans in Congress in general, and the Trump administration in particular, have had too little respect for education and science and are too penny-wise-pound-foolish to follow that path.

Good luck getting rare earths production cranked up again in the U.S., too. Sort of silly to fantasize about closure of the border with Canada, they being a major trading partner of the U.S. and providing a number of critical goods we need. (ETA: fiber pulp to make toilet paper, for example :-) )

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blfenton

Countries all over the world are working together for a vaccine. CanSino Biologics has been a partnership since 2009 and has worked on a number of vaccines.

This is just one of many partnerships and collaborations that Canada, Health Canada and various universities have going on to develop a vaccination for Covid 19.

It's unfortunate that the OP seems to care so much about this particular collaboration. If a promising vaccination comes out of this partnership I won't care. It can come out of Timbuktu for all I care.

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catspa_zone9sunset14

Consensus among many experts is that there needs to be at least several different successful vaccines, as there is nowhere near the capacity to produce adequate quantities of a single type.

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Ann

"Now you want to dictate to Canada who can or can't be their ally? If we bully them and they don't cry uncle, we should then close our border permanently?"

Lol, Canada is their own country making their own decisions and choosing their own form of government and their own allies and associations. I don't want to "dictate" anything to Canada. The only task of the U.S. with Canada or Canada with the U.S. is to determine our ongoing and potentially evolving relationship as neighboring countries. If our leaders' views, allies and friends, choices, and relationships around the world separate to a point where a more restrictive border situation makes sense (to either country), then that may end up being in the best interest of both countries. We'll see what evolves.

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roxsol

Ann, I’m just hoping somebody, somewhere develops an effective vaccine. It is and should be a collective/collaborative effort. Politics shouldn’t come into play.

If it is “bothersome” to anyone where the vaccine is successfully developed, then that individual has the perfect right to refuse it.

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Ann

"We have not been a good ally to many countries over the past three and a half years. I could list dozens of reasons why."

We differ on this opinion. I think of the U.S. as an excellent and important ally to many a country.

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catspa_zone9sunset14

The U.S. is on the way to becoming irrelevant on the world stage. Look at WHO's reaction (and China's) this week to Trump's temper tantrum there. If you want to have a say, you have to stay at the table, not abandon it.

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Nana H

"I've been interested, in a troubling way, in Canada's connection with
WHO leadership (e.g., Aylward) and with China in general. This appears
to be yet another step in that direction."

Ann, not sure what your reference to Aylward was about but thought that if you had some notion he was representing Canada at the WHO I wanted to clear that up.

Aylward is a Canadian who has worked as an employee and advisor to WHO for years and years. He does so as a private citizen and does NOT represent Canada or the Canadian government in any capacity.

As a matter of fact there is no love lost between Ottawa and Aylward, he is at loggerheads with the Canadian government on several fronts.

He has been summoned twice to testify before a Parliamentary committee with regards to his trip to China. The Canadian government wants to know why he was there and what he learned. Both times Aylward has refused to testify. He does not reside in Canada so he can't be served a legal summons. Not sure what next steps the Government is considering....would not surprise me if they threaten to revoke his passport.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/mps-issue-rare-summons-of-who-doctor-bruce-aylward-to-appear-before-house-committee

The second issue is his reluctance to support Taiwan's admission to the WHO as an observer. Something that Trudeau has been very vocal about in support of the US request to admit Taiwan as an observer.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-backs-us-led-effort-for-taiwan-at-who-1.5563088


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bleusblue2

catspa_zone9sunset14

The U.S. is on the way to becoming irrelevant on the world stage. Look at WHO's reaction (and China's) this week to Trump's temper tantrum there. If you want to have a say, you have to stay at the table, not abandon it.

~~~~~

Worth repeating!!!

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Toby

If our leaders' views, allies and friends, choices, and relationships
around the world separate to a point where a more restrictive border
situation makes sense (to either country), then that may end up being in
the best interest of both countries. We'll see what evolves.

Why would it make sense? Should Canada close their border to us because Trump has buddied up to Putin and Kim? What other country should we close our border to because we don't like who they choose to do business with?

It seems your desire to punish allies for whom they do business with is specific to Canada, and since you've expressed a blanket distaste for its citizens, it seems purely personal. I can't see any rational explanation for your comment. So I repeat, why would it make sense to close our borders to Canada if they choose to partner with China on a vaccine?

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Ann

"The U.S. is on the way to becoming irrelevant on the world stage. Look at WHO's reaction (and China's) this week to Trump's temper tantrum there. If you want to have a say, you have to stay at the table, not abandon it."

Well, I'd venture to propose that the WHO and the Communist Chinese government have been quite linked to one another and, frankly, that's a table that warrants consideration of abandonment. Also, it's a table the Communist Chinese government will not welcome Taiwan to:

"Self-ruled Taiwan has been lobbying to attend, as an observer, the May 18-19 ministerial meeting of the WHO’s decision-making body, the World Health Assembly (WHA), and has won high-level support from the United States and several U.S. allies, including Japan."

This from an article covering a U.S./China feud at the Monday/Tuesday World Heath Association meeting.

"In recent weeks, Chinese leaders and citizens have become increasingly aware of the international criticism and open hostility over China’s initial handling of the outbreak. Top American officials have been scathing, but European leaders have also spoken of mysteries surrounding the outbreak in China that needed to be addressed.

China’s aggressive diplomacy and international anger over exports of Chinese-made medical equipment that turned out to be shoddy have also contributed to the rising tensions.

Around 100 nations have called for an independent investigation into the origins of the pandemic.

Against that backdrop, and with the imminent start of the annual National People’s Congress in Beijing on Friday, Xi’s move appeared to be an effort to win over international support and calm the public anxieties in China.

“Certainly this is a very tricky moment for Xi,” said Dali L Yang, a political scientist at the University of Chicago. “Clearly he doesn’t want this really to be hanging above him, given how many countries are engaged and have asked for an investigation into the origins of the virus.”"

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Nana H

"Self-ruled Taiwan has been lobbying to attend, as an observer, the May
18-19 ministerial meeting of the WHO’s decision-making body, the World
Health Assembly (WHA), and has won high-level support from the United
States
and several U.S. allies, including Japan."

......and Canada

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patriciae_gw(07)

It is through connections, alliances, sharing, communications that our world becomes a safer place. Ostracize, alienate, offend? That is how you start wars. We want China to be a good friend so we treat them like one. We want them to be inextricably connected to the world economy. It is common sense. But Canada? Dear lord. Lets make an enemy of Canada? Isolating yourself is burying your head.

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HamiltonGardener

So, we have fast tracked several vaccines, “Warp Speed”, right?

Maybe not a problem, but the vaccines they are able to fast track are not how a vaccine is usually developed. These aren’t using attenuated or killed viruses, as most vaccines are.

Instead they are using genetically engineered DNA and RNA vaccines, created to make your body respond to certain proteins.

I understand that they currently do not have any vaccines of this type approved for human use.

So, science moving forward is a good thing, but under normal circumstances they would have the time to adequately test a new method of developing and delivering a vaccine. Yes, human trials are happening, but they also plan on rolling out the vaccine for widespread use before testing long term effects of a genetically modified vaccine.


And the first people they plan on giving this widespread vaccination? Front line workers. They get to be the guinea pigs, and they don’t know the long term affects because they don’t have the time to wait and find out.

I’m totally for vaccination, but I’m wondering if I might wait for a “traditional” (killed or attenuated virus) vaccine option. But I read that would take 2 to 3 years for that type.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

"If our leaders' views, allies and friends, choices, and relationships
around the world separate to a point where a more restrictive border
situation makes sense (to either country), then that may end up being in
the best interest of both countries. We'll see what evolves."

If that isn't classic Trumpian tactics!

Throw an outlandish idea out on the public wall and see what sticks--so that Trumpians know which direction to take.

"We'll see what evolves." Exactly how Trump ends his speculations when he is trying to test the public reaction to tactics he is mulling over--except "evolves" is too fancy a word for him. He usually says, "We'll see what happens."

But now that the idea is planted in the public's consciousness, Trump and cohorts can begin working to accomplish that goal--which was the goal of this little exercise from the beginning.

Kate

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Ann

"......and Canada"

Yeah, you've posted of Trudeau's "words" on the topic. There is a famous saying about actions and words. Trudeau seems to regularly land on the "words" side of that saying. I sometimes feel his actions are either completely lacking or interestingly inconsistent to his words.

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Ann

"What Ann seems to want"

One can see where this comment was going right from the start. This was an inappropriate comment IMO, Toby. I can and do write my own thoughts. You can and should do the same (with your opinions and thoughts on any given topic).

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Iris GW

^^^ I don't think there's anything wrong with posting speculation ("seems to want", "seems to say," "I think what I hear you saying") - discussions are absolutely based on what people take away from other's words.

This is a discussion forum.

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Nana H

Whatever......Trudeau supports Taiwan and the US position. That's the facts...that's what allies do.

Any comment on the Aylward information or is that just going to be kicked to the curb like any other factual information that doesn't fit the chosen narrative?


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batyabeth

"Should Canada close their border to us because Trump has buddied up
to Putin and Kim? What other country should we close our border to
because we don't like who they choose to do business with?
It seems your desire to punish allies for whom they do business with......"

exactly toby. Well said.

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HamiltonGardener

Soooo...

Anyone interested in “New COVID vaccine news”, or just interested in pecking at each other?

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Nana H

HG, nice try , sincerely, but the OP was never really about new vaccines. It has served it's intended purpose.

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HamiltonGardener

I don’t know. It’s not just this thread.

This whole forum has become a place to fight rather than to discuss.


Talking about each other rather than about events or ideas.


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tryingtounderstand

Sheesh! Only on this forum would there be discussion or arguments re Canada and USA severing their ties, partnerships, closing border indefinitely.

Canada has not released Meng, and China still has 2 innocent Canadians in retaliation.

Further, The relationship between CanSino and NRC is NOT recent or newly formed. In fact, it has existed for nearly a decade. CanSino's vaccine was developed using a cell line from the NRC that was previously used to produce an Ebola vaccine among others, according to the agency. The two organizations have worked together since 2013.

Further, the vaccine study, testing is also being conducted in Canada. Wanna bet, if it works the world, including USA will benefit! The integrity of Canadian standards and ethics in its research is world class. The world could rest assured that any vaccine coming out of Canada is viable, effective and safe! Just like when we developed the Ebola vaccine!

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Toby

My comment was not inappropriate. I can only interpret your meaning, which I gave you an opportunity to clarify:

So I repeat, why would it make sense to close our borders to Canada if they choose to partner with China on a vaccine?

You're free to refute my interpretation. This is a discussion board, as Iris said.

To me, the topic was clearly the "bothersome" relationship between China and Canada in developing a vaccine. I, for one, found Ann's provocative statement more interesting than the topic of vaccine development.

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Ann

"Aylward is a Canadian who has worked as an employee and advisor to WHO for years and years. He does so as a private citizen and does NOT represent Canada or the Canadian government in any capacity."

Is this supposed to be some sort of "justification"? He does so as a private Canadian citizen and I'd argue, as such, he very much represents his country. There are plenty of people in every country who don't work directly for a government but most definitely work on behalf of their country and its interests.

I think this is a pretty interesting article about Aylward, including this quote.

""In fact, Dr. Tam used Canada's legal obligation to the WHO as an excuse to not implement travel bans," said Jeneroux, adding that Tam said Canada did not want to be "called out" by the WHO for doing so.

"Our government was more fearful of being called out by the WHO than protecting Canadians," said Jeneroux."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/who-scheer-raise-concerns-1.5532354

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Ann

This is a discussion board, Toby, and feel free to discuss your opinions on the political topics. "Ann" is not the topic. You twisting my words is not the topic.

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Toby

I wrote nothing personal about you. I wrote nothing about "Ann". I am commenting on your comment about a POLITICAL TOPIC. If you don't want comments on your comments, don't make provocative statements like these:

If our leaders' views, allies and friends, choices, and relationships
around the world separate to a point where a more restrictive border
situation makes sense (to either country), then that may end up being in
the best interest of both countries.

If our leader's views separate to a point where a more restrictive border situation makes sense....

You've pinned a possible border closure on our leaders' views, and we know who Trumpers believe should always prevail when there's a disagreement.

Ergo:

What Ann seems to want is that every ally remain loyal to TRUMP, not to
our shared histories and support of each other. Trump wants China to pay
politically for the pandemic, so any ally who does business with China
is being disloyal to Trump.

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Nana H

"He does so as a private Canadian citizen and I'd argue, as such,
he very much represents his country. There are plenty of people in
every country who don't work directly for a government but most
definitely work on behalf of their country and its interests."


"private Canadian citizen and I'd argue, as such, he very much represents his country." private citizens do NOT represent their country....what nonsense., There are many citizens who act on their own against the best interests to their country.

Alyward in no way reflects the position of the Canadian government and in fact is acting in defiance of them. ...but as I said up thread..... If it t doesn't fit the chosen narrative discard it.

It is "discussions" like this that all credibility is lost and the fact this is a personal thing becomes blatantly obvious.

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Ann

I can certainly understand this Canadian doc's reasoning.

"The role of our governments is to build trust through transparency and accountability,” said Gill. “If the Trudeau government wants Canadians to trust and buy into a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, partnering with the Chinese Communist Party’s military is […] the most counterproductive and dangerous thing it could do. [It] must abandon this illogical and dangerous endeavour, and instead fund vaccine trials with our allied nations who understand the critical importance of trust, ethics, safety, transparency and collaboration.”


https://thinkpol.ca/2020/05/19/frontline-doctor-calls-canadas-vaccine-deal-china-dangerous/

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catspa_zone9sunset14

As amply demonstrated by now, Trump's idea of an "ally" is someone who is going to kiss up to him personally (especially if it's an autocrat -- he really admires autocrats, something the CIA has noticed and uses to lengthen his meager attention span during intelligence briefings) and he seems to care less where that leaves the U.S. globally.

Thus far, in fits of pique, he's either comprised or completely destroyed the previous influence the U.S. wielded through the WTO, WHO, NATO, the Iran nuclear deal, UNESCO, the UN Human Rights Council, the G7, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the Paris Agreement, the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, the Open Skies Open Surveillance treaty, and appears to be taking aim at the START treaty, up for renewal next February, too, if he's still in office. Probably not a complete list. On the USMCA that replaced the NAFTA he nearly blew up, virtually all that was gained were some concessions on dairy tariffs, something even the American Enterprise Institute considered "really minor".

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socks(10a)

Be cautious about the Moderna vaccine. Former Board of Director is now imbedded in the trump administration.

How could anyone trust a vaccine approved by this administration with dr. trump running things?

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jmm1837

What a strange comment. Do you seriously believe that every Canadian is a covert agent of the Canadian government? Canada is a free country, and people have the right to hold and express views other than those espoused by the government if the day. We have the right to our own values, our own worldviews, and the right to pursue both, irrespective of whether they align with government policy. That's what Aylward is doing. And your own link makes clear that he is entirely independent if the Canadian government.

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socks(10a)

Additionally, thinking about a rushed-to-market vaccine, from 5/23 LA Times:

May 21, 2020

3 AM

To the editor: Reporter Daniel Miller’s review of Dr. Jonas Salk’s legacy and your editorial on the Trump administration’s “warp speed” effort to develop and distribute a coronavirus vaccine are déjà vu warnings from the polio era.

As a young Epidemic Intelligence Service Officer in 1956, I was the lead agent from the Center for Disease Control working with the Chicago Board of Health on its 1,500-case polio outbreak. As someone with 65 years’ experience in infectious disease and epidemiology, I offer a warning from the errors and lack of oversight in the Salk vaccine saga that resulted in avoidable tragedy.

Salk’s research actually implied that each lot of his killed-virus vaccine would require sophisticated testing to ensure that no live virus remained. But this caveat was not adequately conveyed to the several pharmaceutical companies rushing to produce vaccine. Importantly, federal law at the time did not require or permit direct involvement of U.S. Food and Drug Administration scientists in confidential monitoring of the production process, which is required today.

Cutter Laboratories, inexperienced in viral research, failed to detect live virus in multiple lots. The resulting thousands of children infected and several deaths is called the Cutter Incident. Other companies’ vaccines also caused infections. In fact, all companies had found live virus in numerous lots never distributed, but never disclosed to the FDA. The production issue was resolved, but it took a massive public re-education effort in order to resume the life-saving program.

The "warp speed" push for a COVID-19 vaccine, the Trump Administration's anti-science policies and budget cuts to key agencies, its silencing of scientists like Dr. Rick Bright, and its suppression of CDC's detailed safe opening guidelines are dangerous to the public's health not only in America, but worldwide.


Lauri D. Thrupp, MD, Santa Ana

The writer is a professor of medicine emeritus at UC Irvine


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Ann

Toby, those are all your words and none of them mine.

I don't care whether you think a comment about politics, leaders and country to country relationships is provocative or not, as it's well within rules. I don't need to write only opinions you agree with. If you want to respond, give your response to the comment about the topic, not about a poster (which is not within the rules).

I happen to be watching Canada's maneuvers with China with head tilt interest. Like the doc said in my most recent post, I think some of these collaborations could be both counterproductive and dangerous. I happen to think the leader of my country has a much better grip on the China pandemic situation than the leader of Canada does. If this collaborative China/Canada situation ends up creating tension with the U.S. or with any other country who shares the China concerns the U.S. has (and many countries do!), then I'm on the U.S. side of that. I think Trudeau is wading in some strange waters on this pandemic front.

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Ann

"Alyward in no way reflects the position of the Canadian government and in fact is acting in defiance of them. ...but as I said up thread..... If it t doesn't fit the chosen narrative discard it."

I'm not sure I understand this. It appears to be you that wants to "discard" any discussion of Aylward .

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Does Trudeau, or any of his family, have business relations with China such as using Chinese factories to manufacture products that he is selling in North America?

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Ann

Ann: "He does so as a private Canadian citizen and I'd argue, as such,he very much represents his country. There are plenty of people in every country who don't work directly for a government but most definitely work on behalf of their country and its interests."

Nana: "..,...and there are many citizens who act on their own against the best interests to their country."

I'd agree with both of these.

Nana, are you now proposing Aylward worked against the best interests of Canada in his work with the WHO? If so, in your opinion, specifically what was Aylward doing that was against the interests of Canada?

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Ziemia(6a)

HG, the phrasing in the OP included a pointed dig at Canada. So, any comment related to the OP would be about that dig. The thread is about "nefarious" actions by Canada and China, not about vaccine development.

I guess the way to not have this thread include 'pecking' would be to ignore the dig.

And perhaps have another thread start on vaccine development and include a request about opinion phrasing.

******

What Toby said, I guess. (As I wait for a snarky query from a fellow American based on a quote of some of my words.)

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Nana H

"'m not sure I understand this. It appears to be you that wants to "discard" any discussion of Aylward ."

Not at all. glad to discuss Wayward and the fact that he does not represent the Canadian government perspective on anything. He is a private citizen with private personal views that are NOT in keeping with Canada's policies and in fact he is refusing to cooperate wits the Canadian government.......it's not complicated.

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Nana H

"Nana, are you now proposing Aylward worked against the best interests of
Canada in his work with the WHO? If so, in your opinion, specifically
what was Aylward doing that was against the interests of Canada?"

I am not sure given the fact he refuses to cooperate with the Canadian government and provide details of exactly why he was in China and what he found there but I think he is holding back damaging info.

What I do know is that he was acting against the best interest of Canada, and the US BTW, by his push back on allowing Taiwan to join to WHO as an observer. Directly against the US policy that Canada was supporting.

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Ann

"Ann, is it then your assertion that every American citizen represents the the views and objectives of their country and their government ? Really? Want to think that through?

ETA Ann. you are usually fairly logical..this one is off the rails."

Goodness no, including citizens who do work for the government. Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Strzok and Page come right to mind.

But, some very dedicated private citizens who have nothing to do with the government spend lifetimes dedicated to the good of their country. As do some government employees.

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Ann

Catspa, I'd certainly agree Trump has undone many an agreement. And, with most of them, thank God and finally!!!!

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Ann

Nana, what do you think about this Canadian doc's view? How do you feel about the vaccine partnership between the Communist Chinese company and Canada?

""The role of our governments is to build trust through transparency and accountability,” said Gill. “If the Trudeau government wants Canadians to trust and buy into a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, partnering with the Chinese Communist Party’s military is […] the most counterproductive and dangerous thing it could do. [It] must abandon this illogical and dangerous endeavour, and instead fund vaccine trials with our allied nations who understand the critical importance of trust, ethics, safety, transparency and collaboration.”

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Ann

Actually, I think you've already addressed my question of how you feel about the partnership.

"I'm glad that the international community is working together . We need the brightest of the bright working on a vaccine and the more teams around the world the better. "

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jmm1837

"the crititical importance of trust, ethics, safety, transparency and collaboration.”


And who woukd that be? A few days ago you were touting an American vaccine under development by Moderna, whose marketing efforts saw the share value rocket. Only thing is, Moderna has provided only vague statements about effectiveness or safety, has done only the shortest term testing, and refuses to release test data. Not much in the way of transparency, trust or ethics there.

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Ann

Canadian doc: "the crititical importance of trust, ethics, safety, transparency and collaboration.”

jmm: "And who woukd that be?"

Looks like Trudeau is giving that trust to Communist China - with his recent agreement.

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catspa_zone9sunset14

Catspa, I'd certainly agree Trump has undone many an agreement. And, with most of them, thank God and finally!!!!

"Most of them"? Hmmm. :-) In any case, the day has already arrived when the rest of the world begins to proceed as if we don't exist, leaving our ambitions and influence in the dust. And Trump and the Trumpsters will be scratching their heads and wondering why, clueless as to why that is, not understanding how we unilaterally gave up what influence we did have, while Trump's bluster and empty threats are viewed with shrugs.

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Nana H

"I'm glad that the international community is working together . We need
the brightest of the bright working on a vaccine and the more teams
around the world the better. "

Absolutely I very much trust our brilliant scientist to do the due diligence that hopefully will bring an effective vaccine to market. Somethings just aren't political.

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jmm1837

Ann - so, Canada shouldnt have dealings with China, but it's fine for Microsoft, Boeing, Google and a host of American companies to do so? " Do as I say, not as I do?"


For heaven's sake, we're talking about a vaccine here. All that matters is getting one that works. If that comes out of the US or Europe out of a Canadian-Chinese partnership, doesn't matter one whit. No one's national security is under threat here.

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tryingtounderstand

The vaccine is being developed in Canada....sheesh! People, listen. The collaboration is In the sharing of intellect...We do have brilliant researchers, who think independently and critically. The frontline dr. Has not done her research. Who is she anyway?, an unknown entity up here for sure!

But One can trust Dr. Joanne Langley of the Canadian Center for Vaccinology in Halifax says CanSino's partnership with the National Research Council of Canada puts a spotlight on homegrown scientific expertise, and should guarantee a Canadian supply if the potential vaccine proves viable.

There is absolutely no way that Canada and USA relations will deteriorate to the extent that it will necessitate defensive actions by either country. Definetly no wall either (impossible feat across great lakes). The 2 countries are extremely interdependent, I.e. oil, pipelines heading to Texas. Rivers..and other resources.

As I had not heard of Thinkpol, (From Ann’s source upthread) ,I got curious and Just looked them up. These are the publisher’s authors or writers. Wow, they sure have a lot of credibility, experience and on the lead I g edge of political, medical journalism! (NOT). https://thinkpol.ca/authors/

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I'll believe that we should really, really worry about Chinese influence in the US when Trump, Ivanka, WalMart, etc. decide to sever their business ties with that country because of negative influence.


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socks(10a)

Can we trust a vaccine approved by trump's people? Skeleton crews, "acting" people. He won't care if it works or not, he'll just want something out there so he can brag.

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Iris GW

He won't care if it works or not, he'll just want something out there so he can brag.

Bingo.

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Nana H

Interesting.....guess the US is looking to China for a possible vaccine .


"An all-out global race to develop a safe vaccine against coronavirus is underway. The stakes couldn't be higher: an effective vaccine or treatment against the virus that causes COVID-19 is necessary to fully restart economies and resume civic life.

As the pace accelerates, USA TODAY is rounding up some of the week's most notable vaccine developments.

They include a massive contract by the U.S. government to get dibs on a possible vaccine that may or may not work, very early but promising news on two different vaccine candidates, one from China and one from the United States, and a caution that sometimes biology can't be sped up as much as we might want."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/22/coronavirus-vaccine-update-china-england-u-s-vaccines-show-promise/5246196002/

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Ann

"Interesting.....guess the US is looking to China for a possible vaccine ."

Oh Nana:(((

First, the link you just posted is the same link as the one in the OP of this thread, lol:)

Second, please reread the part you bolded and quoted and notice it has commas in it for a reason.

In conclusion, I think a more careful reading of the article (if you've read the entire article?) and the opening/introduction you quoted just might bring it to your attention that you've interpreted that opening quite incorrectly:)

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tryingtounderstand

Don’t ya just hate it, when journalists or media writers have difficulty expressing themselves in the written word. According to The MSN article in theOP, it appears the USA is indeed looking at China and other countries for a vaccine “ As the pace accelerates, USA TODAY is rounding up some of the week's most notable vaccine developments.

They include a massive contract by the U.S. government to get dibs on a possible vaccine that may or may not work, very early but promising news on two different vaccine candidates, one from China and one from the United States, and a caution that sometimes biology can't be sped up as much as we might want.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/latest-on-global-search-for-coronavirus-vaccine-three-candidates-show-early-promise/ar-BB14tECs?ocid=spartandhp


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Ann

"They include a massive contract by the U.S. government to get dibs on a possible vaccine that may or may not work, very early but promising news on two different vaccine candidates, one from China and one from the United States, and a caution that sometimes biology can't be sped up as much as we might want."

Let me help you. In this introduction, the author is trying to tell the reader the article is about 3 main topics. These three topics are:

  1. The U.S. entered a massive contract with AstraZeneca/Oxford University for early delivery of 300 million doses of vaccine that entered the testing phase in England in April. If ongoing testing of the vaccine proves it to be ineffective, the 300 million doses will be destroyed instead of used. But, if proven to be effective and safe, the vaccine will be in the U.S. in large supply and ready to go.
  2. China has a vaccine candidate which will be tested in Canada soon, with the testing trial being coordinated by Canada's National Research Council. Trudeau has made the announcement of this association and the chairman of this particular Communist Chinese company (CanSino) worked in Canada from 1996-2009. Then, unrelated to the Chinese vaccine candidate, there is also a vaccine candidate from American company, Moderna. The safety aspect of this Moderna vaccine is looking promising during the initial testing phase.
  3. Phase 3 of trials (which none of these vaccine candidates are in yet) could be time consuming and are important from the "safety" portion of the testing. It is important to not rush phase 3, in the opinion of some.
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Ann

"Don’t ya just hate it, when journalists or media writers have difficulty expressing themselves in the written word. According to The MSN article in theOP, it appears the USA is indeed looking at China and other countries for a vaccine"

Granted, the author could have written the intro a few different ways, but the message becomes quite clear when the article is read and the intro is then revisited. No, to me, it does not "appear" at all as you described TTU. I found the article to be very clear as I read it in its entirety, where the intro was well detailed piece by piece.

ETA: Actually, the simple replacement of two commas with two semicolons in this sentence would have been a good choice on the part of the author. Like this:

They include a massive contract by the U.S. government to get dibs on a possible vaccine that may or may not work; very early but promising news on two different vaccine candidates, one from China and one from the United States; and a caution that sometimes biology can't be sped up as much as we might want.”

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tryingtounderstand

Let’s pray that one day, a safe, effective vaccine will be found. We are all in this together!

Moreover, pray that Canada does develop a vaccine with China, as Canada will share with with the USA and the world. My point is further explained here: There are growing concerns among current and former US national security officials and top global health experts, however, that China will develop a vaccine for the novel coronavirus first, which could put the US at a major disadvantage a time of historic tensions between Washington and Beijing. "China has advanced a great deal in its research capabilities and has gotten a major head start on COVID vaccines and treatments," Lawrence Gostin, the director of Georgetown University's O'Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law, told Insider. "It is certainly possible that China could be first to show efficacy and safety. That is a problem if China decides not to equitably share the technology." https://www.businessinsider.com/us-could-be-in-trouble-china-develops-coronavirus-vaccine-first-2020-5



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Ann

Honestly, the more I think about this article I read this morning (the same one Nana reposted), the more shocked I am at this China/Canada association on a vaccine for the very pandemic the Communist Chinese government gifted the world with. As those researchers visit Canada or live in Canada during this Canadian testing phase, I don't want them anywhere near the U.S. or U.S. border with Canada. I find myself wondering how Canadian citizens feel about this pandemic vaccine partnership, and am surprised at the positive Canadian reaction I'm reading about on this thread. Furthermore, I'm surprised at the articles I'm reading from Canadian publications online, as if this is all good news for Canada. Where does Canada think this pandemic came from and what role does Canada think China played in it - NONE? We're just all "in this together" along with the Communist Chinese government? If yes in your opinions, really?

Then, what will Trudeau say about China's plans to impose national security laws on Hong Kong. Will he give it the same empty lip service he gives Taiwan and leave it at that as he then proceeds with his exciting new collaboration with Communist China and Canada's buddy, heading CanSino?

I find myself nodding in agreement with this Canadian doc in her quote I posted upthread. I have no idea who this doc is but it's pretty hard for me to not see the wisdom in her quote!

""The role of our governments is to build trust through transparency and accountability,” said Gill. “If the Trudeau government wants Canadians to trust and buy into a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, partnering with the Chinese Communist Party’s military is […] the most counterproductive and dangerous thing it could do. [It] must abandon this illogical and dangerous endeavour, and instead fund vaccine trials with our allied nations who understand the critical importance of trust, ethics, safety, transparency and collaboration.”

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roxsol

We've got countries that are allies — we have some countries, frankly, that are not allies — where we're working very closely together," Trump said. "We have no ego. Whoever gets it, we think it's great. We're going to work with them. They're going to work with us. Likewise, if we get it, we're going to be working with them."

When asked by a reporter if the U.S. would have access to a vaccine if it was first developed in China, Trump gave a one-word answer: "Yes."

What does President Trump mean by this?

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Tilly Teabag

I will work with you to figure it out if you first work with his people who also work for Men at Work, Roxsol.

Does that work for you? Please ask your people to get back to my people. They are currently all in WFH..

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roxsol

As those researchers visit Canada or live in Canada during this Canadian testing phase, I don't want them anywhere near the U.S. or U.S. border with Canada.”

That could be tough Ann. Almost 90 percent of Canadians live/ work within 150 km. of the border.

(I’m not one of them)

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roxsol

Tilly, I think that will work. My people are working on it.

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Tilly Teabag

Men At Work, “Who can it be now?”


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SECVGN4Bsgg

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roxsol

In our newspaper today:


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roxsol

“Who can it be knocking at my door?
Make no sound, tip-toe across the floor
If he hears, he'll knock all day
I'll be trapped, and here I'll have to stay
I've done no harm, I keep to myself;“

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Tilly Teabag

😉

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tryingtounderstand

Personally, I am proud and confident in this partnership and its quest for a vaccine. Scientists from Canada, the USA and China were successful with developing and getting the Ebola vaccine to market.

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roxsol

TTU, I agree. We need to work together. This isn’t about borders.

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Olychick

If I were the other countries working on this and achieved success, I would certainly consider putting the USA at the end of the line to receive a share of the vaccine because of the shameful way the Pandemic President has acted toward other countries.

But perhaps, by the time it's developed, we'll have a new President who can mend some fences and restore respect for us by providing some cooperation around the world.

"'When asked by a reporter if the U.S. would have access to a
vaccine if it was first developed in China, Trump gave a one-word
answer: "Yes."

What does President Trump mean by this?'"

It means he has no idea. Why would ANYONE believe anything he says, or think he even knows anything?

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Ann

"If I were the other countries working on this and achieved success, I would certainly consider putting the USA at the end of the line to receive a share of the vaccine because of the shameful way the Pandemic President has acted toward other countries."

"Why would ANYONE believe anything he says, or think he even knows anything?"

These attitudes are interesting. I've been wondering if pile on TDS would take people/countries down roads like this. I'll be very frank in saying I think Canada is and has been a country that is small enough in population and strength that it "pairs" with other countries in a big brother/little brother fashion. For Canada, that big brother partner has been the U.S. for some time. The U.S. is a freedom loving country with great military strength (which Canada doesn't have). So, Canada has chosen its partnership with some care and sensibly IMO.

In recent months, the Canadian interest in Communist China and the growing bashing of the U.S. has caught my attention. I hope Canada is thinking this through and I hope they understand what they are thinking. Whether individuals or countries think otherwise because they are swimming in TDS, the U.S. and President Trump are very much the "good guys".

Regarding what is on President Trump's mind in terms of the vaccine (the repeated question of what does President Trump mean by this), I think the massive contract with England's AstraZeneca tells us precisely what is on his mind and who he is choosing to work with. I'd say it also indicates our scientists see good potential promise in that endeavor, at present. Has Trump eliminated the potential of China being the first, best, and one and only option for a vaccine? I'd say no, not entirely, but he's putting his money and confidence toward, IMO, a far more sensible direction - for oh so many reasons.

I'll return to leaders and "actions" and "words". I'll also mention leaders who take the lead and those who provide empty lip service. Then I'll mention Taiwan and Hong Kong. I hope Canada's leader is making wise decisions for his country. I know President Trump is pairing with reasonable and trustworthy partners and I very much respect his opinions and the leadership position the U.S. is willing to take in regard to Taiwan and Hong Kong. I'll repeat, the U.S. (despite TDS) represents the "good guys" and the U.S. is always willing to actually have the back of the other good guys around the world. I'm very glad to live in a country where my leader is a good guy, a strong leader who will have the back of others, and a leader who wants to associate with and look out for other countries and leaders who choose to be in the good guy group. Also, a leader who is willing to see the reality of the pandemic situation.

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tryingtounderstand

@Ann, “ In recent months, the Canadian interest in Communist China and the growing bashing of the U.S. has caught my attention. “

Yikes! Can you verify where you are seeing this, beyond this forum. With the Meng case Canada certainly stuck out it’s neck at the USA’s request. The vaccine partnership is decades old and apolitical. Canada can not ignore the USA just as the USA cannot ignore Canada. This friendship and partnership transcends 2 centuries. These 2 countries have fought side by side in way too many wars to count. Remember that the 2 countries have agreed to have the world’s largest undefended border. I highly doubt Canada will join the communist regime. Can you imagine Russia and China as your northern neighbours. If such a ridiculous scenario would come to be, Trump would be at war immediately or any president, for that matters. I can’t, imagine any China takeover of Canada or Canada giving up its democratic freedoms to join communist China. So relax all is good! Pray for a vaccine!


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Nana H

"He does so as a private Canadian citizen and I'd argue, as such,
he very much represents his country. There are plenty of people in
every country who don't work directly for a government but most
definitely work on behalf of their country and its interests."

Ann, following your " logic" Simonson, an American citizen employed as an executive at the WHO and who is defending the WHO and their interaction with China, must be representing your country and her interests just as you seem to think Aylward is representing Canada's interests.

"In response to charges that the WHO sat on information coming out of
China about coronavirus and did not act quickly enough, Simonson said:
“Both assertions are wrong on their face.”

“There is no conceivable reason WHO would sit on information. No
interest of ours is served by doing so,” he said. “Our interest is in
sounding the alarm when the evidence is indicating the alarm should be
sounded and that is exactly what Dr. Tedros did.”

This today......
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-official-i-cannot-imagine-u-s-pulling-out-of-the-international-body/

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

In recent months, the Canadian interest in Communist China

Nothing about how US capitalists have contributed and continue to contribute to China's economy, giving that country the means by which the government exerts its power and influence across the planet.

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Toby

Trump and Trumpers are never happy unless they have an enemy. It's China this election. For some, it appears they want to add Canada to that list. They might want to "think it through" as it gets us absolutely nowhere to turn Canada against us.

Hang in there, Canada and the rest of the world. Trump will be gone soon. We're all in this together.

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Ann

Nana, we've already covered that ground up thread. There are good and bad people in and out of government. There are people in government who work against their own leaders and government (case in point, Comey!!!!). There are people out of government (and entire companies which are not government entities) who dedicate their lives and businesses to the good of their country.

I asked you which category you think Aylward falls in. You discussed your opinions about Aylward/Taiwan, but expressed uncertainty about Aylward/Covid, per him not (yet) testifying.

This Covid vaccine partnership between CanSino and Canada leads me to believe the Canadian government may be on much the same page as Aylward was when it comes to the Covid pandemic topic and the Communist Chinese government. By being on the same page, I mean protective of Communist China and willing to go along with their narrative of innocence.

I agree with the Canadian doc I quoted, about the wisdom of Trudeau's choice in this partnership. I don't think this is a minor, nothing burger choice. I do think the Communist Chinese government knowingly allowed this virus to go far and wide because of the financial ramifications to them of allowing it to remain only in their country while other countries could avoid the virus and prosper economically. I think Trudeau is potentially moving Canada in an unfortunate direction (especially at a time of the (Chinese) virus, Taiwan issues, and Hong Kong issues). I think his decision is illogical and could be quite counterproductive. I think other leaders are and will make much more sensible decisions. Furthermore, I don't think there will be one and only one vaccine for Covid and that the one and only will be the CanSino vaccine. Yet, that's the partnership Trudeau is choosing to solidify.

I think this is a very delicate and potentially historical time with Communist China, and I think Trudeau could be placing Canada on the wrong side of history. As I said earlier in this thread, buying tee shirts from China is one thing, but if this virus should have taught the world any valuable lessons, counting on China for life saving treatments, drugs, and protective equipment - is quite another!

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

if this virus should have taught the world any valuable lessons, counting on China for life saving treatments, drugs, and protective equipment - is quite another!

If China comes in first with a safe and effective vaccination against Covid-19, their standing in the world will overshadow prior criticism.

With so much at stake, I don't see China willing to risk putting out a bad product.

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Nana H

Canada being protective of China is beyond absurd. Our relationship is very strained. Trudeau certainly does not lavish praise on Xi the way Trump does.

We have two Canadian citizens being held prisoner by China soley because we are honouring our legal commitments with the US. Two Canadian lives on the line ......real stuff not FOX talking points..real lives.

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tryingtounderstand

Ann, not to worry, Canada is also linked up and has contracts with American powerhouses such as GlaxoSmithKline. Sanofi Canada is collaborating with the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Medicago has manufacturing facilities in the USA.

Seems like only some folk here, on Hot topics are worried about CanSino and NRC research. Highly Doubtful that the President of the USA is worried about it!

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bleusblue2

Nana H

Canada being protective of China is beyond absurd. Our relationship is very strained. Trudeau certainly does not lavish praise on Xi the way Trump does.

We have two Canadian citizens being held prisoner by China soley because we are honouring our legal commitments with the US. Two Canadian lives on the line ......real stuff not FOX talking points..real lives.

~~~~

I want to repeat this because Americans are really unaware of this. I can't blame them, a lot of news overshadows it every day. Those men are not in some cushy resort getting special treatment. Their health is deteriorating day by day. This is what we think about with every discussion that has the words China/Canada.

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tryingtounderstand

China has severely reprimanded Canada for apprehending Meng. China stopped imports of Canadian soy, meat products and grain. Definitely, don’t worry about USA and China partnerships either, as they don’t exist? NOT To the contrary:

April/20 The newly signed U.S.-China trade deal that includes a significant boost in Chinese purchases of American products has calmed global trade tensions for now, but leaves a number of crucial questions unanswered for Canadian exporters.

At a signing ceremony in Washington Wednesday, President Donald Trump touted the deal between the world’s two biggest economic powers as a “landmark” agreement that most people “thought could never happen,” — though analysts said it leaves a number of core structural issues unresolved.

“Together, we are righting the wrongs of the past and delivering a future of economic justice and security for American workers, farmers and families,” Trump said at a White House press conference that included top Chinese officials.https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canadian-farmers-left-with-more-questions-after-u-s-and-china-sign-long-awaited-trade-deal

I often think of our 2 guys in Chinese jails, and the worry their families face. They are not leading or living the same lifestyle as is Meng https://www.google.ca/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=meng+house+vancouver&hl=en-us&client=safari&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiW19e6rM3pAhVJoZ4KHSiuCj0QsAR6BAgKEAE&biw=1173&bih=762&dpr=2

Maybe, now we can stop worrying about Canadian and Chinese scientists partnering to save humanity from an invisible enemy!

By the way Happy Memorial Day weekend!!

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Nana H

Ann' s understanding of the Canadian / Chinese relationship is about as deep as skipping stones on the lake.

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blfenton

Very well said Nana. And I agree.

If this collaborative China/Canada situation ends up creating tension with the U.S. or with any other country who shares the China concerns the U.S. has (and many countries do!), then I'm on the U.S. side of that. I think Trudeau is wading in some strange waters on this pandemic front. - Ann

Tell you what - you worry about trumps a$$-kissing of Xi and we'll worry about Trudeau's measured response to China. ETA - and if Trudeau needs to be called on it you can bet we will do it.

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isabellagracepan

I am Canadian and I think the original post is full of fearmongering and "otherness". We Canadians are nice people- just like you Americans. Our two countries have not always seen eye to eye, but that hasn't stopped us from having friendly relationships for a very long time. Can the original poster please not use this stressful time to breed fear and alienate people?

Also, any talk about permanently closing the border is absurd. Canada provides lots of goods and raw materials to the U.S., not to mention that we export 9% of our electrical power to help power your cities! Let us keep our relationship strong and positive, no matter who is in office. Hugs to all of you who are staying at home and keeping healthy.

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Ann

"Tell you what - you worry about trumps a$$-kissing of Xi and we'll worry about Trudeau's measured response to China. ETA - and if Trudeau needs to be called on it you can bet we will do it."

Tell you what - in the same way Canadians feel free to opine about anything and everything Trump, I'll opine in any way I see fit about Trudeau and his decisions and actions and his utter weakness.

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tryingtounderstand

@isabella, nice to have another Canadian forumite, welcome to the club. (:

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tryingtounderstand

@ann, yes critique Trudeau as do many Canadians regardless if they did or did not vote or support him. Difference is, we are able to admit wrong doing on our leader’s behalf, we do not protect him at all costs. It’s kind of like marriage, we may love our spouse but we can admit their flaws, challenges and weaknesses. I have yet to ever see any of Mr, Trump’s supporters do this.

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jmm1837

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why it's wrong for Canadian scientists to work with China on a potentially life saving vaccine, but absolutely fine for US companies to partner with the Chinese in hi-tech, auto making, aircraft manufacturing and the like. How about the US walk its own talk before lecturing the rest of the world.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

absolutely fine for US companies to partner with the Chinese

Good luck receiving a cogent answer. My questions about US capitalists' relations with China have been ignored.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

It's easier for trumpsters to complain rather than explain....just like trump.

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Toby

I don't think this thread is going to plan. I guess you get what you deserve when you try to provoke the Canadians on this board.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Ann, I think your argument that a scientist is a representative of his country just because he is a citizen is totally without merit. It doesn't bear scrutiny and doesn't hold up in debate.I am referencing in part this quote from you

"Is this supposed to be some sort of "justification"? He does so as a private Canadian citizen and I'd argue, as such, he very much represents his country. There are plenty of people in every country who don't work directly for a government but most definitely work on behalf of their country and its interests." and the amplifications of this thinking that you made.

What an odd outlier belief.

My views on this whole thing is that in fact this man is doing a good service for us all. The more completely China becomes intermixed in its dealing with the world the better for us all. One small step at a time. I am sure there were plenty of Chinese officials who were totally against China opening up to world trade just because of what has happened to China. No more little red books and they get to wear normal clothes. A sort of visual representation of their gradual infection by values from the rest of the world. What ever you want to call their form of government which we call communism because that is a world we are taught to spit out as representing the utmost of repression it is definitely gradually eroding to become more like us. I cant say that is necessarily a good thing. I have a somewhat jaundiced view of what we do but it is what it is.

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blfenton

And I wonder how many understand that scientists all over the world are working with and collaborating with scientists in countries other than their own. Scientists go where the grant money is, where the labs are, where others who are in their own field are, where the teaching positions are. I wonder how many Chinese Nationalist scientists are working in the US right now. Hundreds, probably if not thousands.

ETA - to clarify first sentence.

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patriciae_gw(07)

BL it is true that if your bliss as a researcher is coronavirus for example you play well with anyone who can get you more information or material that is coronavirus. A good thing.

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elvis

Toby

I don't think this thread is going to plan

Going to plan what?

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Ann

Today's been a weird day on HT. I found 3-4 new(ish) threads I commented on and, with the exception of this one, all disappeared shortly after I joined in. No clue if it was me but I did brush my teeth twice today:)

I remember one was about the Musk launch, one about Trump playing golf today, and one about a poll/bots.

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Ziemia(6a)

The plan?

Was it to provoke? Seems like for some Americans that Canada's relationship with Chinese companies is bothersome while the US's isn't.

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blfenton

And for some they don't like Canadians on this forum at all, especially criticizing trump. You know, that guy that the US calls the Leader of the Free World? As long as you do that I am free to criticize him.

Trudeau doesn't view himself, nor does Canada, as the Leader of the Free World. But feel free to criticize him and as was noted above we do it all the time and we do it without fear of any sort of reprisal.

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HamiltonGardener

Well, there could have been one of two intents.


1) To put out vaccine news and discuss what progress is happening around the world.

If this was the intent, it was completely overshadowed by people bickering about politics.


2) To bait Canadians on the forum.

if this was the intent, she was totally successful. Mass congregation of Canadian brains exploding all over this thread, tripping over one another to respond and defend, trotting out the usual playbook. Meng, two Michaels, Blah, blah, blah.


Ann wins at internet!!

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roxsol

Ann loves us Canadians!

We’re always on her mind and in her OP’s.

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Ziemia(6a)

Some are offended by insults and some aren't.....

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elvis

roxsol

Ann loves us Canadians! We’re always on her mind.

Aw, everyone likes you, Roxsol!

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roxsol

A good neighbour, too.

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roxsol

Some are offended by insults and some aren't...

The Chinooks have a tendency to toughen the skin.

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Ann

HG, your comment simply cracked me up!

I did read the article in the OP with interest when I ran across it during my typical morning internet "newspaper" reading habit. I both thought the overall vaccine and "deal" (U.S. and Canada) news was interesting and, as I clearly and plainly stated in the OP, the China/Canada connection in regard to the (what I consider to be a Communist Chinese government pandemic) vaccine did catch my eye and in a bothersome way.

HT is full of controversial conversations and differing opinions, but it does bring quite an emotional ruckus when the word "Canada" is uttered by anyone besides a Canadian speaking to another Canadian. We can have 10,000 orange man bad threads and U.S. should or shouldn't do this or that threads, but Oh Canada, and emotions and justifications erupt. Maybe that's why numerous Canadians hang out on primarily U.S. forums:)

This is priceless and good for you for the wonderful apropos humor!!!

"if this was the intent, she was totally successful. Mass congregation of Canadian brains exploding all over this thread, tripping over one another to respond and defend, trotting out the usual playbook. Meng, two Michaels, Blah, blah, blah."

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Ziemia(6a)

The Chinooks are more fierce in some parts ....

Overall, rather entertaining....

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

what I consider to be a Communist Chinese government pandemic

How about demanding that Wal-Mart cease doing business with factories in Communist China.

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roxsol

Musical interlude for a lazy Monday afternoon...


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jmm1837

Still haven't heard why Canada dealing with China is worrisome, but the US dealing with it isn't. Waiting, waiting...

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roxsol

HG, you’re nothing but an eastern rabble-rouser. I knew it.

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roxsol

I’ve just read that USA Novavax is starting vaccine trials in Australia.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2020/05/25/novavax-is-beginning-clinical-trials-of-its-coronavirus-vaccine/amp/


Novavax, a biotech company focused on developing vaccines against infectious diseases, announced Monday that it is beginning a phase 1 clinical trial of its Covid-19 vaccine candidate in Australia. Results of the trial are expected in July 2020.”

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blfenton

Chinook? What's a chinook? ;)

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roxsol

“Chinook winds, or simply Chinooks, are föhn winds in the interior West of North America, where the Canadian Prairies and Great Plains meet various mountain ranges, although the original usage is in reference to wet, warm coastal winds in the Pacific Northwest.“

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HamiltonGardener
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Ann

A new vaccine candidate enters the testing group - Novavax (a U.S., Maryland based company). Looks like a pairing with Australia is happening with human testing of the Novavax vaccine beginning in Australia. Also, a Norway-based coalition is providing manufacturing/production investment in the Novavax vaccine.

ETA: This news is one key factor in the nice upward market move today, with the DOW back over 25,000, now about 7000 points above its low from the crash and only about 4000 points from its all time high.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/novavax-trials-coronavirus-vaccine-candidate-in-australia-2020-05-26

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tryingtounderstand

Just thought I would bring up the Meng case ( who lost in court ) to allay any worries about Canada becoming BFF with China. No doubt, Canada will pay the price, rightfully, Trudeau will not release Meng. Our 2 innocent guys in solitary condiment will, no doubt, pay a way higher price, perhaps with their lives. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-meng-wanzhou-extradition-kovrig-spavor-1.5587636


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Izzy Mn(4)

"On Monday CNN reported that Moderna’s Chief Financial Officer Lorence Kim and Chief Medical Officer Dr. Tal Zaks last week executed options and sold nearly $30 million of shares combined."

I forget to save the source this came from. But it looks like some of the companies executives are quickly selling off some stocks. A sign that their vaccine not doing so well after it was hyped up in the news and sent stocks soaring.

Updated Friday:

Now it's reported to be $89 million sold by executives.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/27/moderna-executives-cashed-out-shares-stock-price-soared/


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HamiltonGardener

We should keep in mind that a safe, properly tested vaccine is more than a year away. Probably much more.

A company touting a jump too far ahead is going to rise... then fall as soon as reality sets in.


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