Self limiting herd: covid and trump-supporting counties

Annie Deighnaugh

As more parts of America proclaim themselves open for business, COVID-19 continues to expand into new counties and states in many areas with demographic and political orientations favorable to President Donald Trump. This is especially noteworthy given that the president has pushed for an even faster reopening of the U.S. economy.

Now, for four weeks running, counties newly designated with a high prevalence of COVID-19 cases were more likely to have voted for Trump than for Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election, according to our analyses. In the latest week of this monitor, such counties favored Trump by a 12% margin in 2016, and, as in recent weeks, they are also much less urban and less racially diverse than places where the coronavirus was most prevalent in March and early April.

Source: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/05/07/as-states-reopen-covid-19-is-spreading-into-even-more-trump-counties/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=sendto_newslettertest&stream=top

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Comments (61)
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adoptedbyhounds

What could not be seen without testing is now visible, thanks to testing. America is moving forward, with our without Democrats. Did anyone really think Americans were going to sit around waiting for a vaccine?

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

Not to mention this is as sensational as a 600% increase headline. Ya know, when a community goes from 10 to 60 cases...


Where are the actual numbers? All it says is that a "high COVID community" has a .1% infection rate.


.1%


Soooooooo scary.

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chisue

We won't be done with Covid-19 until 2/3rds of the population has immunity. It's unlikely to come through vaccine.

Evidently some people 'just want to get it over with'. During the Bubonic Plague, people went crazy, feasting, drinking, hosting orgies. (Jan Bruegel's famous paintings depict this.)

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Soooooooo scary.

In rural areas with limited hospital beds and ICU capacity, Covid can indeed be very scary.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Since the beginnings of the pandemic in the US, concern has been expressed for rural areas lacking sufficient medical resources if Covid begins spreading there.

As the nation's reopening continues, tourists and vacationers from elsewhere -- including Covid hot spots -- will be visiting more rural/less infected areas.

There are already concerns that the South is too early with reopening, and we still have to deal with renewed travel between areas of higher Covid cases and those that have to date been shielded by safe-at-home orders

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

Sure concern has been expressed Nancy. I just have yet to see a reason for that concern. We shall see.

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maifleur03

Montgomery, Alabama hospitals are fueled primarily by rural areas. An article last night shared by a friend in Alabama mentioned that they were sending their patients needing ICU care to Birmingham. They were keeping one bed open for immediate use.

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Annie Deighnaugh

when a community goes from 10 to 60 cases...

Scoff at geometric functions at your own risk.

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Annie Deighnaugh

And trump is keeping it going by declaring he can overrule governors and declare churches are essential....adding fuel to the virus fire at mass gatherings.

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dandyfopp

STATES RIGHTS!


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Annie Deighnaugh

Did anyone really think Americans were going to sit around waiting for a vaccine?

Again with the black and white. It's not either shutdown or open, but there are phases *as listed in trump's own reopening plan*. The point of the shut down was to limit exposure to keep the case load down as to not overwhelm the hospitals in order to buy time....time to get ppe, time to get testing both for the disease and for antibodies....time to develop treatments, cures and vaccines...time to get the resources in place to trace and isolate. Once these things were done, then we were to gradually reopen, we'd be able to determine hotspots as they popped up and send resources and isolate the specific region to squelch the specific outbreaks as they occurred. That process would continue until we did get a cure/treatment/vaccine. It was never to shut down everything forever. However this president has so dithered away the time the shutdown bought and accomplished so little, that now he's fundamentally thrown in the towel, is telling everyone to just open up again and if people die? Well, they're expendable anyway.

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Kathy

Trump has wasted time, money and energy and Americans will die because of it. I believe he and his team are extraordinarily stupid because they won’t take advice and are looking for opportunity and advantages for themselves.

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elvis

Annie Deighnaugh

when a community goes from 10 to 60 cases...

Scoff at geometric functions at your own risk

If it happened here, it would be because the Madison and Milwaukee types arrived, bringing disease and dollars.

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artemis_ma

Jonny - What rural areas nancy? Somewhere in Wyoming or Montana? I haven't heard about the body bags stacking up in North Dakota or any other truly rural area. Just urban nirvanas, those glorious enclaves of enlightenment and liberal retardation.

Okay I get it, Jonny. People who have a different opinion than you … go let them die? Thank you for letting the rest of us know.

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jmm1837

Well, that's what happens when you move to relax Covid restrictions and open up the economy - people start moving around, intermingling, mixing with other people while doing non essential but enjoyable things. It's safe if you have the disease under control, but if not...well, let's just say that one President, a number of Governors and quite a few posters have decided that the dollars are more important than the disease. People living in rural/resort areas are just collateral damage.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I think the term "expendable" should be as much of a battle cry in this election as "deplorable" was for the right in the last one.

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elvis

I thought "expendable" was already the left's battle cry.

When applied to Trump supporters, that is. There are examples of posts all over this forum.

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deegw

I've seen comments that Trump's words and behavior, such as encouraging gatherings and being wishy-washy about masks, implies that Trump thinks his supporters are expendable.

Are you saying that Trump detractors have commented that Trump supporters are expendable? In what way? Will you share the examples?

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abzzybee(9/10 S. Florida)

I'm a pretty rational person and usually can be persuaded by common sense to change my approach to something if mine is lacking.

Nothing of what this administration has done thus far in response to covid-19 has a lick of common sense associated with it. It's been slow to react, most everything is done at half measure at best, there's a guy in charge who's coming off as increasingly unstable and has proven to be inhuman.

I'm not sure what it says about his supporters but if he's the epitome of the Republican party then I will never take anything coming from Republicans serious.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

I thought "expendable" was already the left's battle cry.

When applied to Trump supporters, that is. There are examples of posts all over this forum.

------------------

Personal opinion does not equal a "battle cry".

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studio10001

I'm going to challenge that, elvis. The only such comments I have seen on this forum have come from a conservative poster, in response to comments about 'salivating', if you will recall.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Actually the left is trying to save the lives of people on both the left and the right by having them stay home, stay safe, wear masks and avoid congregating. They are trying to pass packages so people can afford to stay home and not go homeless and hungry. They are trying to keep covid treatments from forcing people into bankruptcy. They are trying to keep the facts front and center about deaths at nursing homes and places like meatpacking plants.

Instead it's trump who's actually encouraging people to not wear masks by example, he's encouraging people to take risky medications that are ineffective with negative consequences, he's encouraging people to go back to church and congregate, and he's encouraging everyone to go back to work despite the risks to the workers in plants like meat packing which are creating hot spots that spread into the surrounding communities. He's firing the experts in vaccines and squelching documents that would provide communities with information about opening.

So to suggest it's the left that thinks people are expendable is simply wrong.


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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Apparently all it takes to not be scared of COVID-19 is ignorance of epidemiology and basic math.

Oops - almost forgot a stone cold heart...


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jmm1837

I have seen several posters suggesting that it would be logical to sacrifice the unproductive elderly to keep the economy going, and others arguing that individuals had every right to resume normal living without taking into account the potential impact on society, because, you know, "it's my right." These were not the left-leaners. Trump himself is making it clear that firing up the economy is more important than the mortality count. So no, I don't see "expendables" as a battleflag of the left. Quite the reverse.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

All 72 Wisconsin counties now have confirmed cases of COVID-19
https://www.channel3000.com/all-wisconsin-counties-now-have-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19/

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Joaniepoanie

Trump wants the economy to reopen, knowing lives will be sacrificed—-mostly the elderly and infirm. He wants to try to save his election. He knows that won’t happen if people aren’t back to work and the economy is collapsed. He ginned up his supporters to protest and they happily complied. It’s always about what’s best for Trump.....always.

Trumpers are “expendabling ” themselves because they are choosing to jump back into their normal lives, going to bars and restaurants, beaches, they’ll show up at Trump rallies. Many won’t wear masks and they won’t social distance. Now they’ll return to churches en masse. All against what the science experts are advising. They nor Trump clearly have any qualms that their actions will cause others to get infected and possibly die.

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elvis

I thought "expendable" was already the left's battle cry.

When applied to Trump supporters, that is. There are examples of posts all over this forum.

studio10001

I'm going to challenge that, elvis. The only such comments I have seen on this forum have come from a conservative poster

Okay--

OP: Repubs. Cheer as Trumper Judge Launches 'Holy War' Against Government

dublinbay z6 (KS)

April 15, 2020


Suzi: Let’s hope Darwin’s theory takes care of these poor disenchanted.

__________

OP: Watch out for the second wave

Iris GWon

Wednesday


Joaniepoanie: Survival of the fittest and smartest.

By all means then, attend a Trump rally.

THOR, Son of ODIN(2): To be blunt: Thinning of the Red States' herds. Or Red Counties, depending on the state.








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Joaniepoanie

Elvis...


Joaniepoanie: Survival of the fittest and smartest.


I DID NOT SAY “Survival of the fittest and smartest. ” Stan did, but you conveniently left that out.

I was responding to Stan’s comment. Yes, if Trumpers have a survival of the fittest mentality, then by all means go to a rally, the mall, the gun show. Have at it. Isn’t that what you were protesting about? Let’s see how you fare.



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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

You may be confusing wishing them ill with watching in disbelief as Trump's followers do idiotic things to get themselves killed, which they seem to be doing more and more, in disregard of any sensible and reasonable rules to keep them safe.

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Iris GW

I like the rolling 14-day charts on this page:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-us-maps-and-cases/

Georgia and Wisconsin are two that are going up.




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Annie Deighnaugh

Exactly ingrid...it's not wishing someone ill when you state the fact that they are going to get ill by pursuing unsafe activities....

And I doubt the poster of these comments would consider himself "liberal"...

  • Pretending that mass economic inactivity is better than a (relatively) few dead old and/or sickly people is utter stupidity.
  • Re how many dead are acceptable: Personally, if I were king of the world, less than 10% is a blip.
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Stan Areted

It was never to shut down everything forever


No, only until Inauguration, January 2021.

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Stan Areted

joaniepoanie:

"I DID NOT SAY “Survival of the fittest and smartest. ” Stan did, but you conveniently left that out.

I was responding to Stan’s comment. Yes, if Trumpers have a survival of the fittest mentality, then by all means go to a rally, the mall, the gun show. Have at it. Isn’t that what you were protesting about? Let’s see how you fair. "


What comment? I do not recall opening this thread, much less entering this conversation until just a few minutes ago, when I made the comment above.

So, what "Stan's comment?" When? Where?

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Annie Deighnaugh

Stan, we are still losing the equivalent of a 9/11 every two days. Some of us think that's unacceptable. Some of us think it's better to take temporary but necessary actions to prevent the spread of the virus rather than have people get sick and die.



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abzzybee(9/10 S. Florida)

^^^ you're quite the Trump scholar, lurker. Baseless inflammatory statements seem to be the tools of trade you've picked up from dt.

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deegw

Your friend Elvis dragged you into this thread. Not Joanie. Read the thread.

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Joaniepoanie

Stan—-it was on the “Watch for a Second Wave” thread.

ETA——thanks dee and nana—-we posted at the same time.

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Stan Areted

Thanks for link to the thread.

Hadn't seen the comments afterwards.

I responded to Rina's comment, that public judgment about ME for what I said is not what this is about.

My comment was referring to evolution, Mother Nature, whatever anyone or any Wiccan or any Christian or any Buddhist wants to call it.

It is perfect, across the board, and fascinating.


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Kitchenwitch111

If the good people of Trump country want to go to the gym and out to eat and go to work to “reopen the economy”, I’m OK with that. I’m grateful that they want to take this one for the team. Where I live it’s easy to stay away from them.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

What exactly is a 'Madison' or 'Milwaukee' type?



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Joaniepoanie

Stan...comprehension problems. It’s universal/generic YOU. Thought that was obvious.

I typed my post late last night before bed, hence the spelling error, now corrected.



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bleusblue2

Stan Areted

It was never to shut down everything forever


No, only until Inauguration, January 2021.

~~~~

The scientific consensus is that opening up for business should be done cautiously.

There it is again. Trump raves: OPEN UP THE CHURCHES! Trump supports protesters who want to open up NOW!

Why do Trump and his fans want to "OPEN UP"? Because if the US opens up there could be a business surge that will make the economy look a little better -- they hope that Trump can call that a success and ride into the office again. Science and LIFE be damned.

Could siding with science, cautioning against hasty reopening cause TRump to lose the election?

Whic voters would be fooled by a sudden brief surge in the economy after all Trump's dithering during this shutdown? The President has been all over the place arguing, challenging science, going maskless, threatening. Tweeting nastiness and names.

Is a brief surge in the economy at the risk of lives lost going to put him back up on a pedestal? He's no longer the golden real estate magnet.

I had to resist changing that last word ...

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sheesh(5b)

Thor, I too was wondering what Milwaukee and Madison types are. Elvis, here's a great idea - build a wall! That's it! Keep the disease-ridden M & M types out of your town while you all remain safely within it. I'm sure the president will be proud of your town for supporting such a genius idea as building a wall. Maybe you can get the M & M types to pay for it, too.

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Linda

What was the European country that tried to just achieve herd immunity? It never happened, I know that. It won't happen here without a vaccine, either.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Sweden. It didn't work out.


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Ziemia(6a)

My state is experiencing reduced hospitalizations and deaths, due to business closures and strongly encouraged (yet voluntary) social distancing. Therefore, we are slowly opening, in phases.


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Ziemia(6a)

My daughter works for a Swedish firm. She is traveling for work tomorrow ('just' from the East Coast west). She could have put it off for a week or two but figures conditions won't be better in 2 weeks and might be worse.

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maifleur03

I agree with your daughter Ziemia. With all of the people out having fun this weekend things maybe about to become interesting.

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heri_cles

NO doubt a lot of Madison and Milwaukee types come from what Trump called s-hole countries. A lot of them are Mexican-Americans and African Americans. The post oozes of bigotry and paranoia.

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studio10001

As noted by others above, elvis, each example you gave was in response to someone pronouncing that they were exceptional in some way that made the guidelines superfluous. At no time did the responses wish for anyone's death, but are instead incredulous: ie, the speakers best hope for exceptionalism, given their bent for what looks to many of us like a dope move.

The posts that have discussed acceptable expendable numbers have also been re posted above - they are conservative voices.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Part of Elvis' post:

Okay--

OP: Repubs. Cheer as Trumper Judge Launches 'Holy War' Against Government

dublinbay z6 (KS)

April 15, 2020

-----------------------

So what am I being accused of? You make it sound like I did something horrible when, in fact,all I did was post a copy of someone's article.

Kate

ETA: Oh, I get it. A poster named "suzi" posted the Darwin comment on my thread. Good reason to smear my name all over the screen as though I did something wrong?

By the way, I haven't a clue who that poster is. Why are you saving comments by posters who rarely show up on this forum?

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Annie Deighnaugh

What I'm wondering is how all these people, happily communing at beaches and bars and such as "trump" country reopens, are going to blame it on the liberals when they get sick and die...I know they will, just wondering how they are going to assign that blame.


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ohiomom

Want to know what a country without social distancing, masks and/or shutdowns look like? Look to Brazil.

1K reported dead in a day.

Something for the USofA to aspire to?

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Annie Deighnaugh

Well, ohiomom, we are running about 1,000 dying per day now, and that's down from a peak of 4,500 in a single day.

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Kathy

Trump closed the border to Brazil. That makes little sense.

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lurker111

I know they will, just wondering how they are going to assign that blame.

Liberals always blame others for their mistakes and crimes. Everyone knows it's the NY disease. I blame the people traveling to and from NY. California, too.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I've seen so many examples of trumplicans not being big on irony...


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Ziemia(6a)

Well, there's Sweden as an example of what few if any "safer at home" guidelines looks like....

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elvis

Kathy

Trump closed the border to Brazil. That makes little sense.

Not in dispute, Kathy. Your post makes little sense.

Um, there is no USA-Brazil border. There are several countries in between.

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Ziemia(6a)

Ummmmmm

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