Pls Explain: Why are Trump & the FRW so Terrified of Mail In Voting?

KarenS, NYC

Explain this to me pls? Is it their alleged fear of voter fraud? What voter fraud? Which several investigations never found & his own 'investigation' closed since they found nothing.

Why does the FRW find this such a major issue? Which no one else seems to be worried about.

OR

to quote Randy Rainbow, is it?

Deflection, Distraction (sung to the tune of 'Tradition' from Fiddler on the Roof). Grasping at Straws;

another non-issue by the Reality Show President,

can you say P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C?

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dandyfopp

Oh Donnie wants people to vote by mail so long as he thinks they are voting for him.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-threatens-funding-for-michigan-nevada-over-absentee-mail-in-voting-plans/2020/05/20/2f86d078-9aa2-11ea-ac72-3841fcc9b35f_story.html


...The Trump campaign itself is encouraging supporters to request absentee ballots, such as in an email sent to Pennsylvania voters Wednesday that urged them to “request your ballot and cast your vote from your own home.”

Spokesman Tim Murtaugh said that the campaign is against mailing all voters ballots because it could lead to fraud, but “it is responsible to advise our voters of what the laws are in their states.”

Still, even as they encourage mail balloting among their own voters, a number of GOP organizations, including state parties, the Republican National Committee and conservative-backed independent groups, have followed Trump’s lead in accusing Democrats of encouraging fraud and seeking to put restrictions on mail voting. The RNC alone has committed $20 million to fight liberal-backed lawsuits seeking easier electoral access.

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lurker111

Plenty of voter fraud. The real question is...Why are the crats so afraid of securing our elections? We already know the answer.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“Plenty of voter fraud.”

Evidence? Source?

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KarenS, NYC

EVIDENCE PLS ? Fork it over, or else, shush & go away.

THRICE investigated at least, no evidence found.

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Izzy Mn(4)

It's one of Trump's favorite debunked mantra's, voter fraud. Doesn't matter that it's untrue. Kind of like the "lock'er up " chant. Just fun for Trumplicans to say.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Karen, it's all about voter turnout. The gop knows that the more people vote the more likely they are to lose. That's why they go through such efforts and expense to try and suppress votes, make it harder to vote in democratic areas, gerrymander districts, etc. It's as simple as that.

In trump's case, however, it's also a set up for when he loses in Nov and decides not to leave office as he'll claim the election was rigged and that he really won.

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Joaniepoanie

Prove it lurker. Trump’s own voter fraud commission shut down because they couldn’t find widespread fraud. How many times does that have to be repeated for the right to get it? Trump votes by mail! Oregon has been voting by mail for 22 years with no issues. Utah, a red state, votes by mail—-no issues says Romney.

If it looked like voting by mail would secure a Trump win, he’d be ordering everyone to vote by mail. And if he really cared about the health of this country during a pandemic he’d be encouraging vote by mail. Perhaps all this talk of fraud is because with mail in votes, Russia can’t electronically change votes.

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lurker111

Plenty of evidence. Like hundreds of people living in the same apartment...all registered to vote for the democrat that owned the apartment complex. Dead voters...and the biggest offender...The federal voters registration website. You guys aren't fooling anyone.

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paprikash

Cheating. No ID.

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dandyfopp

“Plenty of voter fraud.”

Evidence? Source?

Nyet.


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Joaniepoanie

“Like hundreds of people living in the same apartment...all registered to vote for the democrat that owned the apartment complex.“

*********

HOOT!!!!

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lurker111

Evidence? Source?

Maybe later.

“Like hundreds of people living in the same apartment...all registered
to vote for the democrat that owned the apartment complex.“

Correct. In South Texas.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=6KXGXu2iI4mOsQWoqJfADw&q=South+Texas+mayor+arrested+for+voter&oq=South+Texas+mayor+arrested+for+voter&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFAAWABgrRRoAHAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQCqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjttsCIqsXpAhUJR6wKHSjUBfgQ4dUDCAs


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Fake claims. This issue of voter fraud has been investigated over and over again since at least World War II, but no evidence has been found of sufficient fraudulent votes to change the outcome of an election.

In fact, there is little or no evidence that voter fraud even occurred. What they have repeatedly found out is that most of the questionable voter registrations were due to human mistakes--as in, clerical errors or voter confusion about who can vote where and under what circumstances.

There is no evidence for what Lurker and Paprik are claiming. Not even the majority of Repubs. will back them on those claims.

But Trumpsters will--and gladly at that!

Kate

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soupgirl53

Then please provide proof because talk is cheap.

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lurker111

So let's secure the elections so everyone is confident with the outcome. This stupid game is dangerous.

Then please provide proof because talk is cheap.

Done. See my last post and take your pick.

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katrina_ellen

MUCH greater opportunity for voter fraud, this should be clear to ANYONE.

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maifleur03

I had to laugh at the registered to vote for the person who owned the apartment. Heads twirl at the thought that people register to vote for their landlord except if that landlord is running for President. Most people who register to vote do not register to vote for only one person. Although probably in the last presidential election people who had never voted registered to vote for Trump given the amount of confusion I witnessed at my polling place.

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lurker111

I had to laugh at the registered to vote for the person who owned the apartment.

From a neighboring town. All living in the same apartment. One apartment.

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Jamie(SW TN 7b/8a HZ8)

Oregon has had mail-in voting since 1998.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-mail_in_Oregon

History of postal voting in Oregon[edit]

Vote-by-mail had already been implemented to a lesser degree in Oregon:

  • 1981 The Oregon Legislative Assembly approves vote-by-mail for local elections, at the discretion of the county; at least one polling place in the county had to remain open on election day.[2]
  • 1987 Vote-by-mail becomes permanent, with the majority of Oregon's counties making use of it.
  • 1989 A House bill to extend vote-by-mail to include the 1990 primary elections was defeated in a 33–27, non-party-line vote.[2]
  • 1992 Governor's Task Force on Local Government Services identifies statewide vote-by-mail as one of the most significant opportunities to save money on conducting elections.[3]
  • 1995 Oregon becomes the first state to conduct a federal primary election totally by mail.
  • 1996 U.S Senator Ron Wyden is elected by mail with a 66% turnout, succeeding Bob Packwood.
  • 1998 Oregonians confirm their overwhelming support for vote-by-mail by passing Measure 60.
  • 2000 Oregon becomes the first state in the nation to conduct a presidential election entirely by mail. About 80% of registered voters participated.
  • 2019 Oregon becomes the first state not to require paid postage on ballot return envelopes.

Measure 60 eliminated restrictions on vote-by-mail and established it as the single form of voting for elections in Oregon. It also required vote-by-mail to be used for biennial primaries and general elections as well as eliminating polling places.


Lasting popularity[edit]

Vote-by-mail in Oregon has maintained a high level of support since it was passed in 1998. A survey done in 2003 by Dr. Priscilla Southwell, a professor of Political Science at University of Oregon, shows that 81% of respondents favored the vote-by-mail system while 19% favored traditional voting at poll booths. The poll also shows high favorability among both registered Democrats (85%) and Republicans (76%). Thirty percent of respondents said they voted more often since vote-by-mail was enacted.[5]



https://katu.com/news/local/oregon-gov-brown-responds-to-president-trumps-critiques-of-mail-in-voting



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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

These are the instances of fraud as described by lurker that come anywhere close to approaching “hundreds” of absentee ballots being fraudulently influenced by an elected official. From whitehouse.gov, very interesting list to scroll through. https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf


Is one of these what you meant, lurker?

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Joaniepoanie

You want to stop the real voter fraud? Stop the GOP fraud—-gerrymandering, moving polls, closing polls, removing legitimate voters from the rolls, etc......for starters.

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lurker111

No, but thanks for adding those. Still need proof?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

"all registered to vote for the democrat that owned the apartment complex."

That claim doesn't make sense. That is not the way voter registration works in any state of the Union. No one registers to vote for a specific Democrat, such as the owner of the apartment complex (or anything else).

Besides, the apartment owner is more likely to be Repub., not Dem. You know, the Repub. penchant for business.

Yes, you can register for a party (or to be "independent"), but there is no law anywhere that says you are then obligated to vote for that party or forbidden to ever change your party affiliation. Voters change back and forth all the time--and the owner of the apartment complex has no way of knowing whether they did or not--and the owner has no way of knowing how the renter actually voted, unless the owner was illegally peeking behind the curtain in the voting booth to check how each and every renter actually marked their ballots.

If there is an apartment complex where every single renter has the same party affiliation as the apartment owner, there are probably a couple down-to-earth explanations for why:

The apartment is in a predominately Repub. or Dem. neighborhood, so the renters reflect that predominance.

Or, the owner carefully selects renters according to whether he/she believes the would-be renter is Repub. or Dem.

Or, the civic-minded owner held a voter-registration in his building to help his renters all get registered and they did feel obligated (while he or his henchmen were watching) to check the same party affiliation as the owner's, but as the election heated up and the renters began deciding who to actually vote for, at least 50% of them changed their voter affiliation to vote in the primary for the "other" candidate. The other 50% didn't bother to change their recorded affiliation because they intended to only vote in the gen. election and they knew they could vote for whomever they wanted, regardless of what their voter registration said.

See--all sorts of (legal) possibilities.

Kate

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zmith

Miss Lindsey, thanks for that link. Very interesting to scroll through the details. Looks like many absentee ballot abuse convictions in Alabama, which is all I have time to peruse right now. It seems a high number of these cases involved the politicians themselves. Very interesting.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

What’s really interesting is how when viewed in list form it looks egregious. But when you hone in on the dates the fraud is few and far between.

Though looking at Texas I have to admit in all fairness that if I lived there I would believe the national problem to be bigger than it really is.

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cattyles

In Texas, you don’t declare a party when you register. Busted, lurker. Post honestly, please.

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Nana H

I think he is just setting things up so he can scream fixed and rigged if he loses in November. Worse yet his base will believe him and Trumpism will go on forever.

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foodonastump

Lurker please repost your link(s). Some idiot removed it along with most of your other posts before I got a chance to click. Thanks.

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kadefol

I requested mail-in vote ballot applications for both of us here in TX and the form still only reflects the restrictions that were previously put in place for mail in voting: 65 or older, absent from the county on voting day, disabled, or in jail. No Covid-19 choice even though a judge ruled that voters must be allowed to vote by mail because of the pandemic. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

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lurker111

In Texas, you don’t declare a party when you register. Busted, lurker.

I never made that claim. It's just your imagination.

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lurker111

Lurker please repost your link(s). Some idiot removed it along with most
of your other posts before I got a chance to click. Thanks.

Of course. Welcome to my world. Whoever it is...You aren't bothering me. I'm happy that I posted something that you're trying to hide. We aren't stupid and deleting my posts doesn't hide the facts. It just keeps the crats in the dark. Good job.

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lakeaffect

Because they can only win when they cheat.

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dandyfopp

^

That is the ticket.

They are a minority, and when the majority votes, they lose big.

So keep the majority from voting by any means necessary.

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Joaniepoanie

Now Trump is at it again with the quid pro quo he was impeached for. He’s threatening to withhold aid to Michigan and Nevada if they carry out their vote by mail initiative.

Fact-checking reports say that mail voting fraud is very rare.

Trumpers just being ginned up and conned yet again by their snake oil president.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Here, from the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law, is a selective summary of the many investigations into voter fraud since about 2000 or so. They all conclude the same thing: little or no significant voter fraud.

-----------------------

"Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

  • The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
  • A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
  • . . . .
  • Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.
  • . . . .
  • A 2016 working paper concluded that the upper limit on double voting in the 2012 election was 0.02%. The paper noted that the incident rate was likely much lower, given audits conducted by 2 the researchers showed that “many, if not all, of these apparent double votes could be a result of measurement error.”
  • . . . .
  • While writing a 2012 book, a researcher went back 30 years to try to find an example of voter impersonation fraud determining the outcome of an election, but was unable to find even one.
  • A 2012 study exhaustively pulled records from every state for all alleged election fraud, and found the overall fraud rate to be “infinitesimal” and impersonation fraud by voters at the polls to be the rarest fraud of all: only 10 cases alleged in 12 years. The same study found only 56 alleged cases of non-citizen voting, in 12 years.
  • A 2012 assessment of Georgia’s 2006 election found “no evidence that election fraud was committed under the auspices of deceased registrants.”
  • A 2011 study by the Republican National Lawyers Association found that, between 2000 and 2010, 21 states had 1 or 0 convictions for voter fraud or other kinds of voting irregularities.
  • A 2010 book cataloguing reported incidents of voter fraud concluded that nearly all allegations turned out to be clerical errors or mistakes, not fraud.
  • A 2009 analysis examined 12 states and found that fraud by voters was “very rare,” and also concluded that many of the cases that garnered media attention were ultimately unsubstantiated upon further review.

[. . .]

Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

  • Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a longtime proponent of voter suppression efforts,
    argued before state lawmakers that his office needed special power to prosecute voter fraud,
    because he knew of 100 such cases in his state. After being granted these powers, he has brought
    six such cases, of which only four have been successful. The secretary has also testified about his
    review of 84 million votes cast in 22 states, which yielded 14 instances of fraud referred for
    prosecution, which amounts to a 0.00000017 percent fraud rate.

  • Texas lawmakers purported to pass its strict photo ID law to protect against voter fraud. Yet the
    chief law enforcement official in the state responsible for such prosecutions knew of only one
    conviction and one guilty plea that involved in-person voter fraud in all Texas elections from
    2002 through 2014.
  • A specialized United States Department of Justice unit formed with the goal of finding instances
    of federal election fraud examined the 2002 and 2004 federal elections, and were able to prove
    that 0.00000013 percent of ballots cast were fraudulent. There was no evidence that any of these
    incidents involved in-person impersonation fraud. Over a five year period, they found “no
    concerted effort to tilt the election.”
  • . . . .
  • In Florida, a criminal investigation into nine individuals who allegedly committed absentee ballot
    fraud led to all criminal charges being dismissed against all voters.
  • In 2012, Florida Governor Rick Scott initiated an effort to remove non-citizen registrants from
    the state’s rolls. The state’s list of 182,000 alleged non-citizen registrants quickly dwindled to 198.
    Even this amended list contained many false positives, such as a WWII veteran born in Brooklyn.
    In the end, only 85 non-citizen registrants were identified and only one was convicted of fraud,
    out of a total of 12 million registered voters.
  • . . . .
  • In Wisconsin, a task force charged 20 individuals with election crimes. The majority charged were
    individuals with prior criminal convictions, who are often caught up by confusing laws regarding
    restoration of their voting rights.
    "


https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

-----------------------------------

That is just a selective list--even more examples are given at the linked source above.

Trumpsters come up with all sorts of wild and exaggerated claims of voter fraud, but they can never produce any evidence--other than a reported "rumor."

The above examples can be verified by anyone who wants to take the time to look up the sources.

Kate

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lurker111

We're not fooled by silly internet articles and worthless crat investigations. There are plenty of examples of voter fraud and that's just those who get caught. We're going to catch more this time. :^)

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

The summary produced by the Brennan Center for Justice at NY University School of Law is not a "silly internet article."

Please provide verifiable proof of your claim if you wish for us to take it as anything but spurious.

All the examples cited in the Brennan Center summary can be individually verified.

Kate

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Olychick

Why do those opposing mail in ballots (republicans) assume that any fraud would be against them instead of FOR them?

I posted on a similar thread that I believe the republican ties to the voter machine industry, which DOES have the potential for fraudulent votes is a big reason, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/22/us-voting-machines-paper-ballots-2020-hacking

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/22/us-voting-machine-private-companies-voter-registration

https://newrepublic.com/article/137115/americas-voting-machines-disaster-making

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Joaniepoanie

Show us all those fraudulent examples that changed elections. My guess is the only real example would be 2016 and it’s the typical Trump tactic of projection—-accuse others of what you’re guilty of.

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Rina

Ah yes, we remember it well ...


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Rina

Happy to explain for anyone who might not get the reference.

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Ziemia(6a)

Trump had a team whose members knew there was voting fraud. Yet they failed to find any evidence. They looked everywhere. Either Trump appointed totally incompetent folk or there isn't significant voting fraud.

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Ziemia(6a)

As to the question in the OP - there is ample evidence that a significant enough portion of those new voters (who would not vote without mail-in voting) do not vote GOP. (And taken with no voter fraud of significance....)

https://www.wired.com/story/weird-partisan-math-vote-by-mail/


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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The way to suppress the mail-in ballot vote is not to allow it to happen in the first place, especially during a pandemic.

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katrina_ellen

Voter fraud is something the dems know ALL about, they are trying to use the crisis once again to their advantage - not fooling ANYONE.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)


katrina_ellen

just now

Voter fraud is something the dems know ALL about, they are trying to use the crisis once again to their advantage - not fooling ANYONE.

———

You too could know about voter fraud (or more accurately, the lack thereof) if you simply read studies and reports, some of which are linked right here in this very thread.

Can you show any data that disputes the studies and reports quoted here?

Politics is all about using situations to one’s own advantage. On all sides. Don’t be bitter just because one side happens to be able to do it more effectively at the moment.

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paprikash

One of my FB Friends from Nevada posted this today along with a pic of the three ballots. I’m not posting the pic because it has her address on them.

Ladies and gentlemen. THIS is why we should not allow voting by mail. I just received not one, not two, but THREE election ballots for people who do NOT live in my home.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I’m sorry paprikash but an unsubstantiated claim made by an unidentified Facebook friend is NOT admissible evidence and barely counts as an anecdote.

ETA but if it is true, does it not go to show that people are generally either too honest or too scared of the repercussions to vote fraudulently? After all this person on Facebook didn’t use the ballots to vote. Most people if confronted with such a mistake would simply report it or destroy them and move on. Very few are willing to commit a felony to get in an extra vote or two.

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lurker111

Report it. These crooks need to pay.

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mudhouse

Of course voter fraud exists.

From today's news:

U.S. Attorney William M. McSwain Announces Charges and Guilty Plea of Former Philadelphia Judge of Elections Who Committed Election Fraud


PHILADELPHIA – United States Attorney William M. McSwain announced today that Domenick J. DeMuro, 73, of Philadelphia, PA, a former Judge of Elections for the 39th Ward, 36th Division in South Philadelphia, has been charged and has pled guilty to a two-count Information charging (1) conspiracy to deprive Philadelphia voters of their civil rights by fraudulently stuffing the ballot boxes for specific Democratic candidates in the 2014, 2015, and 2016 primary elections, and (2) a violation of the Travel Act, which forbids the use of any facility in interstate commerce (here, a cell phone) with the intent to promote
certain illegal activity (here, bribery).

...The political consultant would solicit monetary payments from his clients in the form of cash or checks as “consulting fees,” and then use portions of these funds to pay Election Board Officials, including DeMuro, in return for tampering with the election results. After receiving payments ranging from between $300 to $5,000 per election from the consultant, DeMuro would add fraudulent votes on the voting machine – also known as “ringing up” votes – for the consultant’s clients and preferred candidates, thereby diluting and distorting the ballots cast by actual voters. DeMuro would add these fraudulent votes to the totals during Election Day, and then would later falsely certify that the voting machine results were accurate.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr/us-attorney-william-m-mcswain-announces-charges-and-guilty-plea-former-philadelphia

He's awaiting sentencing.

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HU-885118952

Voter fraud and chain of possession is a concern.

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Annie Deighnaugh

One would have to prove that it was widespread enough and one-sided to make a significant difference in the outcome for something like the presidential election. I mean isn't that the redwing argument about russian interference? That it wasn't sufficient to swing the election one way or the other?

Prosecutors in North Carolina filed new felony charges against a Republican political operative accused of ballot tampering in a congressional election in 2018.

Leslie McCrae Dowless was charged Tuesday with two counts of felony obstruction of justice, perjury, solicitation to commit perjury, conspiracy to obstruct justice and illegal possession of absentee ballots, according to a statement by Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman.

The charges relate to the tainted 9th congressional district election last year in which Republican Mark Harris led in the unofficial vote tally by a margin of about 900 votes over Democrat Dan McCready. But the election results were overturned by the state after an investigation into an absentee ballot operation on Harris' behalf suggested that Dowless had improperly collected and possibly tampered with ballots. Source: https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/746800630/north-carolina-gop-operative-faces-new-felony-charges-that-allege-ballot-fraud

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Ziemia(6a)

Of course voting fraud exists.

It's the significance.... Team Trump couldn't find anything of significance in the 2016 president election.

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Ziemia(6a)

That FB story - was it 3 applications or 3 ballots?

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terezosa / terriks

Trump had a team whose members knew there was voting fraud. Yet they failed to find any evidence. They looked everywhere. Either Trump appointed totally incompetent folk or there isn't significant voting fraud.

It was probably the same team who he sent to find Obama's Kenyan birth

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bfox254

So let's secure the elections so everyone is confident with the outcome.

I sincerely wish they would devote the resources necessary to secure our elections from foreign influence. It's a fact that Russia was meddling and continues to meddle but no one in Washington seems inclined to do anything to combat the interference.

Voter fraud? I'm sure you can find isolated instances on both sides but highly doubtful it's pervasive enough to tip an election either way. Trump's own voter fraud commission disbanded after coming up empty. We should be making it easier for people to vote, not harder. If that means that Republicans can't win an election, perhaps they need to rethink their priorities. Suppressing voter turnout is not a long term sustainable strategy.

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foodonastump

It was three ballots, which makes me question what year this was. That said, there are in fact four names on the voter registry for that address.

(This information is easy enough to find since not everyone decided to protect privacy.)

ETA - I see the 6/9/20 date pap references below.

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terezosa / terriks

There are numerous safeguards against someone using the ballot of another person. Here in Oregon you must sign the outside of the envelope that your ballot is mailed in. The signatures are matched against signature on the voter registration card. If there is a discrepancy the voter is notified so that they can confirm that it is indeed their ballot. So, if I received ballots for previous occupants of my home I wouldn't be able to use them.

Each ballot also has a unique bar code, so that ballots cannot be copied and used more than once.

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paprikash

3 ballots dated 6/9/20

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Gizmo

Pubs always conflate multiple registrations and actual voting

BTW here's voter fraud:


How Republicans Tried to Rig an Election in North Carolina (And Almost Got Away With It)

It’s
been nine months, and the district still doesn’t have a congressional
representative. But voters head to the polls again soon.

By Jay Willis September 6, 2019

Although
the 2018 midterms took place ten months ago, one district in the
country has gone without an elected congressperson since the new
Congress convened in January. On Tuesday, voters of North Carolina’s
ninth district will head back to the polls to elect a representative
after months of unraveling electoral chicanery.

The district, which extends southeast from the Charlotte suburbs along the state’s border with South Carolina, held an election
last November, just like everyone else. It was a close one: Republican
Mark Harris, a far-right candidate who defeated Republican incumbent
Robert Pittenger in a primary challenge in the spring, defeated Democrat
Dan McCready, a then 35-year-old U.S. Marines veteran, by 905 votes out
of more than 282,000 cast.

In the weeks that followed, though,
state officials uncovered a number of peculiar patterns among mail-in
ballots: In all but one of the district’s counties, McCready won handily among these absentee voters, by 16 points. But in Bladen County, he lost by a whopping 24 points. Journalists discovered
that the same names appeared on many of these absentee ballots as
“witnesses,” and listed the same one-bedroom apartment as their address.

In
other words, either a small group of benevolent democracy enthusiasts
rented a place together and then traveled all over Bladen County to help
strangers vote—or someone, somewhere was cheating. In late November,
the North Carolina State Board of Elections voted to delay certification
of the result until it could figure out what, exactly, had gone awry
here.

The
answer, it turned out, involved one Leslie McRae Dowless Jr., a
longtime fixture of Bladen County politics who worked as a contractor
for Mark Harris’s campaign. And Dowless, it turned out, paid a team to
go door-to-door in mostly rural areas, collect unfinished absentee
ballots from unsuspecting voters, and bring them to him for completion.
In a series of sworn affidavits, witnesses stated that Dowless described himself as “doing absentee” for Harris, and bragged that he was being paid in cash.

To continue: https://www.gq.com/story/north-carolina-ninth-district-fraud

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

There are plenty of senior citizens who prefer to vote by mail in elections, I imagine that there could be even more from that group who will want to vote by mail out of concern there might be another major wave of covid19 cases this coming Fall.

The mister and I voted in the primary for our state, but this time was a little different because after taking a photo with our individual cell phones of the application for a mail in ballot, we emailed them to the elections commission's designated email for that purpose in our county. A couple days later our mail-in ballots arrived and we voted then mailed them in. It was very convenient and allowed us to save two stamps (this was important because at the time I hadn't picked up more yet so we only had one stamp available to us at the time).

Sure, someone else could have pretended to be one of us and taken a cell phone pic of the form to get a mail-in ballot...Maybe Nebraska's Douglas County elections committee is more trusting? I like to think that it's simply a matter of being able to determine that the ballots we requested were filled out by us and no fraud occurred.

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numbersjunkie

I'm going to out on a limb here, and compare fraudulent voting by mail to gun safety. The gun rights folks like to say that guns don't kill people, people pull the trigger. So therefore, we should not regulate guns. Same thing with voter fraud. It's the fraudsters (mostly politicians themselves it seems) who commit the bulk of the fraud, so why prohibit vote by mail? The vast majority of those who vote by mail do so legally, so why take away their right to do so?

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Ziemia(6a)

Still looking at Nevada ballots issues. (Don't have enuf info yet about the potential for fraud.) This info sorta helps - helps to confirm it's a confusing situation...

"The president’s attack on Nevada is particularly confounding, given that the state’s effort to switch to a nearly all-mail election was made by Secretary of State Barbara K. Cegavske, a Republican. Democrats have sued Ms. Cegavske to block her effort to close nearly all of the state’s in-person polling places for the June 9 primary and mail ballots to all registered voters.

“If it has not become apparent yet, Donald Trump makes stuff up,” said Marc Elias, the Democratic elections lawyer who is suing Ms. Cegavske to require more in-person polling places to remain open. “So I don’t think he has a particular objection other than someone has told him that he is losing in Michigan and in Nevada, so today he decided to tweet about Michigan and Nevada.”

A spokeswoman for Ms. Cegavske said, “Nevada has many safeguards in place to ensure the integrity of an all-mail election.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/politics/trump-michigan-vote-by-mail.html

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paprikash

I’ll never understand why the Democrats are so against voter ID. Doesn’t make sense unless they’re for voter fraud which wouldn’t surprise me at all,

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deegw

AKA white privilege.

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Gizmo

paprikash

I’ll
never understand why the Democrats are so against voter ID. Doesn’t
make sense unless they’re for voter fraud which wouldn’t surprise me at
all,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I would have no issue with a voter ID card if it was completely free--instead of a quasi-poll tax, and you could obtain one at every post office, mall, library, schools, etc for convenience.


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

What Gizmo said (above)--plus voter ID is a faux solution to a non-existent problem. Why waste the time and money "fixing" what does not need to be fixed?

Actually, the real objection is to the true motive behind the voter ID movement. It is Repub. inspired--Repubs. are trying to gain a voting advantage by suppressing the vote (in various ways)--by which they mean, the largely Democratic vote. Repub. officials even admit they are trying to damper the Dem. vote by the various strategies they (Repubs.) employ--specialized voter ID, gerrymandering, cutting down on the voting times, whether mail-in voting or in person poll-booth voting, and other "tricks" that they know impinge on the Dem. vote.

It is well-known on both sides of the partisan divide that the discouraging tactics will impact negatively mostly on Dem. voters. That is why Repubs. want to employ those tactics.

Kate

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jmm1837

Meh, here in Australia we have both mail-in voting and advance voting. Doesn't seem to be an issue. I haven't yet seen any evidence that fraud is a major problem here, or in the US, or that mail in voting would increase the chance of fraud. One anecdote, which didn't involve mail in voting, is not proof of widespread fraud; it's not even suggestive of it.

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bfox254

I'm not against voter ID as long as it's easy for those who need one to get an ID. I'm not against any voting safeguards as long as they are truly meant to prevent fraud rather than suppressing the vote.

Republican objections to mail in voting don't ring sincere when you have Trump exclaiming that republicans can't win that way.

Wasn't a recent election in North Carolina nullified because of republican fraud?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

It accomplishes nothing, paprik. There is no fraud of any significance that needs to be squelched--except in your imagination.

What I want to know is why republicans are so resistant to making is EASIER to vote?

Oh, that's right--I already answered above my own question. Because Repubs. don't want it to be EASIER for Democrats to vote. Repubs. want to make it harder and therefore target strategies that are known (by both sides) to have a bigger negative impact on Democratic voters.

Kate

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lurker111

Yeah, that isn't going to work.^^^

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

You do know, Paprik, don't you, that there are more registered Democrats than there are registered Republicans? That is why Repubs. don't want to make it easier for anyone to vote--don't want that greater number of registered Dems. to show up at the polls in larger numbers!

And that explains why Repubs. will try any tactic that might discourage more voters from voting.

It is a truism of political lore that the larger the turn-out for an election, the greater the likelihood that the Dems. will win. Whereas a smaller turn-out means that the Repubs. are more likely to win.

BOTH SIDES KNOW THAT!!

Kate

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Pls Explain: Why are Trump & the FRW so Terrified of Mail In Voting?

Easy, because it's easy. Trump likes easy , but just for himself, esp when it comes to this issue, he knows he will lose if everyone who can legally vote can vote easily. He will fight this tooth and nail, and as others have said above trump will say it's rigged when he loses. I may need to resurrect my old "Will you in fight trump's civil war?" thread soon.

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Joaniepoanie

I had to show ID to register to vote—-in every state I’ve lived in. At the polls give them my name and address.

I don’t get the Repub obsession with imagined voter fraud, which has been proven does not exist in any substantial way. But hey, the rest of us know they believe any lie or nonsense Trump or the conspiracy sites throw out there. Same crowd that believed Hilary was running a child sex trafficking ring out of a pizza parlor and was the devil incarnate because she had a private email server, even though it was perfectly OK Bush had one—-and Trump does too.

Three ballots mailed to the same address for folks not living there? Not fraud. Many people move and don’t notify voter registration. My DD was getting sample ballots at our home long after she moved to another state. They went in the trash. Everyone knows it’s illegal to vote under another‘s name and punishable. And I believe age is listed on the rolls so even if I tried to vote using daughter’s name I think they would have seen the 34 year age difference.

Bottom line—-there is no massive voter fraud. Trump is going to do and say anything and everything so he can cry “rigged” when he loses, just like he did in 2016. All of a sudden the 2016 election was no longer rigged when he “won.” Imagine that!

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ohiomom

The U.S. Military has done it since the Civil War and advocates and lawmakers believe it could be a model because of Covid19.

ETA: I voted by mail for the first time in my life this year in the primary because our Republican Governor Mike DeWine shutdown in person voting. First you have to request a ballot and then the ballot arrives and you have to provide proof of who you are (ID).


SOURCE OF COURSE

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terezosa / terriks

3 ballots dated 6/9/20

So what?

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

We were registered to vote when we went to the DMV/County Treasurer's (they're in the same building at the location closest to our home) to get our Nebraska driver's licenses and register our vehicles.

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terezosa / terriks

One of my FB Friends from Nevada posted this today along with a pic of the three ballots. I’m not posting the pic because it has her address on them.

Ladies and gentlemen. THIS is why we should not allow voting by mail. I just received not one, not two, but THREE election ballots for people who do NOT live in my home.

In Oregon if I received 3 ballots that didn't have my name on them I wouldn't be able to use them because of the signature matching.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

So what exactly was on those 6/9/20 ballots? There aren’t official presidential nominees yet.

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Joaniepoanie

They just had an election in a California district with mail in ballots and the Republican won. Voter fraud!

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Wow -blink and suddenly there are 80 comments! Skipped down to say Mr. Trump already said why - that if everybody voted by mail, no GOP would ever win office again.

Never mind that GOP has done very well with absentee voting over the years. They've been relying on it in states like mine.

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foodonastump

ML - Primaries:


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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Thank you FOAS

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graywings123(7)

I voted by mail in VIrginia this month and had to write in my driver's license number on the ballot.

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numbersjunkie


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terezosa / terriks

Over 22 million Americans have no other choice but vote by mail.

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gizmo

I’d guess he forgot to register and so his absentee ballot wasn’t
counted. Some Republicans would say people like him should be charged
with voter fraud.

But by his reasoning he should never have been allowed to vote that
year at all. He didn’t have an excuse for voting absentee. He just
didn’t turn up on the rolls.

https://digbysblog.net/2020/05/remember-when-trump-had-trouble-voting-in-2004/



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batyabeth

"Perhaps all this talk of fraud is because with mail in votes, Russia can’t electronically change votes."

well, yes, basically. And that he ha already admitted that with too many mail in ballots, no republican would win an election. So that's it in a nutshell. His tweets about it being illegal are baffling. It's not, and up to the states. And the "if you do this I won't give you the funds you're completely entitled to" is, as a matter of fact, actually illegal. Just sayin'

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Annie Deighnaugh

graywings what about people who don't have a driver's license?

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

I guess it could be easy for ballots to be intercepted, either on the way to the voter or on the way back. With any process, the more steps you put into the process, the greater the opportunity for failure somewhere along the line.

If the voter doesn't return the ballot for whatever reason, someone else could conceivably pick it up, cast their own vote, and send it in on the voter's behalf. It would seem to increase the opportunities for misuse.

On the other hand, the old model of having people congregate at polling places has been outdated for some time, let alone during a pandemic. The only advantage in-person voting offers is that there are many fewer middlemen between the voter and the vote. It's hard to intercept a ballot at a polling place without causing a commotion and a police response.

I hope we eventually move to online voting, or something that requires the voter to initiate the process themselves instead of passively receiving a ballot simply because they are on a list.

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paprikash

Former Philadelphia Judge of Elections Indicted for Election Fraud in Favor of Democrats

Reagan McCarthy

|

Posted: May 21, 2020 1:45 PM

United States Attorney William McSwain announced on Thursday that Domenick DeMuro, a former Judge of Elections in Philadelphia, has been charged with multiple counts of election-related fraud:

“(1) conspiracy to deprive Philadelphia voters of their civil rights by fraudulently stuffing the ballot boxes for specific Democratic candidates in the 2014, 2015, and 2016 primary elections, and (2) a violation of the Travel Act, which forbids the use of any facility in interstate commerce (here, a cell phone) with the intent to promote certain illegal activity (here, bribery),” per a DOJ release.

Tom Winter

✔@Tom_Winter

· 20h

NEW: The U.S. Attorney's Office and FBI in Philadelphia have announced the guilty plea of a local elections judge, Domenick J. Demuro there who took bribes in exchange for adding ballots to increase the vote totals for certain candidates.

Twitter Ads info and privacy

DeMure conceded that a political consultant, whose name was not revealed, paid him to illegally doctor votes for multiple Democratic candidates. The bribery money would be disguised as "consulting fees":

“DeMuro fraudulently stuffed the ballot box by literally standing in a voting booth and voting over and over, as fast as he could, while he thought the coast was clear. This is utterly reprehensible conduct. The charges announced today do not erase what he did, but they do ensure that he is held to account for those actions,” said U.S. Attorney McSwain. “Voting is the cornerstone of our democracy. If even one vote is fraudulently rung up, the integrity of that election is compromised. I want the public to know that this investigation is active and ongoing, and my Office is taking every possible step that we can to ensure the integrity of the upcoming primary and general elections in the nine counties of the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.”

DeMuro’s indictment eviscerates the narrative, pushed predominantly by Democrats, that voter fraud is non-existent.

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deegw

I thought it was the mail-in "fraud" that had the Trump fans all up in arms. This dolt stuffed ballot boxes.

Eviscerate? Nope. No one has declared that fraud is non-existent.

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dandyfopp

Getting the feeling Donnie is mighty fretful about losing the election.


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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Have those who are against voting by mail ever voted by mail? I don't see how fraud can be involved. There are so many safeguards in place including requiring a signature which is then checked against the signature on file. The ballots when received are put into a computer as a vote. If you tried to vote again, you would not be able to record the vote. Its also considered a felony. I think rw fear is misplaced.

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soupgirl53

Voting by mail makes a lot of sense. The Russians and others who may wish us harm cannot alter the vote count if paper ballots are used and paper ballots can be stored so there is a permanent record of the vote count. It is easy to vote by mail and more people will vote if the process is easy. Given all the above and the fact we are in the midst of a pandemic, the time for voting by mail in all states is upon us.

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how2girl

But it’s aok for him to vote by mail, Mel to vote by mail, Ivanka & Jared to vote by mail.

He’s terrified because the majority won’t be voting (by mail or otherwise), for him.

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dandyfopp

A Trump election conspiracy collapses


https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/05/21/a-trump-election-conspiracy-collapses-1285442


05/21/2020 07:07 PM EDT


MIAMI — A Trump election conspiracy theory has fallen apart after Florida’s law enforcement agency said it had found no widespread voter fraud in the 2018 races for Senate and governor.

President Donald Trump had complained repeatedly about election “fraud” and theft in heavily populated, Democrat-rich Broward and Palm Beach counties, which had slowly but erratically updated their vote totals after polls closed on Election Day.

With each updated tally, Republican candidates Rick Scott, who was running for U.S. Senate, and Ron DeSantis, in a bid for the governor’s mansion, saw their margins of victory narrow. Both races ultimately went to recounts.

It’s common for election margins to change as more ballots are counted, but Scott, who was governor at the time, claimed without evidence thatthe counts reeked of Democratic fraud, a conspiracy theory Trump amplified on Twitter. Scott called for an investigation. Trump backed him up.

“Law Enforcement is looking into another big corruption scandal having to do with Election Fraud in #Broward and Palm Beach. Florida voted for Rick Scott!” wrote Trump on Nov. 8, 2018.

In a tweet the next day, the president falsely accused Democrats of sending “their best Election stealing lawyer, Marc Elias, to Broward County they miraculously started finding Democrat votes. Don’t worry, Florida - I am sending much better lawyers to expose the FRAUD!”

But neither Trump’s unnamed “lawyers” nor the Florida Department of Law Enforcement found evidence of a “big corruption scandal.” The state took more than 17 months to wrap up its investigation Wednesday, and found none of the wrongdoing alleged by Trump and Scott.

At the time, Trump’s interest in the races for Senate and governor went beyond the usual partisan support for Republican candidates. Scott and DeSantis are among the president’s two closest allies, and Florida could decide his political future as he runs for reelection.

Trump’s corruption conspiracy in Florida collapsed as he sought to discredit vote-by-mail efforts in two other battleground states, Michigan and Nevada, with incendiary and false rhetoric. As Trump tweeted falsities about vote-by-mail in those states, the Florida GOP sent a fundraising email urging donors to "Stop Voter Fraud."

The president’s attacks on mail-in voting have increased in recent months as demand for mail-in ballots has increased during the coronavirus outbreak. Polls consistently show Trump marginally trailing Joe Biden ahead of the November election.

In the 2016 Republican primary in Florida, Trump baselessly complained of “dishonest” voting and falsely accused his opponent, Sen. Marco Rubio, of working with the Republican Party chairman “& their minions ... to rig the vote.” Trump stopped complaining after he won the primary.


But he stepped up his complaints again before the general election with conspiracy theories about rigged voting that Republicans as far west as Idaho and Washington condemned as false. After Trump won the Electoral College but lost the popular vote, he claimed that California had illegal voters in 2016.

After the nonprofit, nonpartisan fact-checking organization PolitiFact labeled that claim a “pants-on-fire” lie,Trump repeated it at a White House press briefing in April.

Election officials and experts expect high voter turnout in November and an increased number of people casting ballots by mail, many for the first time in states that have little experience managing mail-in programs or high volumes of mailed ballots. That’s a recipe for longer and slower vote counting and, if the election is close in battlegrounds like Florida, more potential for fraud claims as vote totals change after the polls close, especially in urban southeast Florida.

“Late-arriving ballots tend to break toward Democrats,” said Michael McDonald, a University of Florida political science professor who specializes in voting by mail.

“It’s not an iron-clad law, but the phenomenon is so prevalent it has a name: the blue shift,” said McDonald. “It happened in California as well in 2018. But perception has built that there’s something nefarious going on here with these ballots being counted late, or after Election Day, but I don’t want to imply there’s anything or illegal or wrong going on.”

In Florida’s 2018 election, bad management — particularly in the long-troubled office of former Broward County Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes — made the vote tallies look suspicious.

Rather than continually update the election system on election night with a running tally of ballots counted, Broward officials uploaded tens of thousands of ballots at irregular times late at night. Because of the county’s sheer size and liberal-leaning electorate, the new ballots caused statewide margins to shift suddenly in Democrats’ favor.

As Republican margins shrank, Trump stepped up his misleading attacks on “the Broward Effect” of “found” votes and, later, “missing or forged” ballots. In all, he tweeted Florida election conspiracy theories and complaints 10 times over the course of a week.

Two days after the election, Scott was perilously close to losing his Senate bid to unseat incumbent Bill Nelson. He held a rare press conference at the governor’s mansion to demand an investigation and said he was suing Palm Beach and Broward counties.

"Every Floridian should be concerned there may be rampant voter fraud in Palm Beach and Broward counties," Scott said, providing no evidence. "I will not sit idly by while unethical liberals try to steal this election from the great people of Florida."

Florida law enforcement officials initially balked, seeing no signs of the fraud Scott described. But Scott and Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi demanded the investigation.Bondi would later represent Trump during his impeachment.

DeSantis kept quiet and ultimately won the governor’s mansion by less than half a percentage point after a recount. Scott prevailed by less than a quarter point.

Florida investigators also looked into three unrelated election matters from 2018. They found no proof that Republicans were illegally blocked from witnessing the recount in Broward. And they concluded there was no evidence that Democrats committed fraud when they tried to help voters fix problematic absentee ballots.

Investigators did find, however, that a Panhandle election supervisor in a Republican-heavy county reeling from Hurricane Michael might have broken the law by allowing a dozen votes to be emailed in and counted. State prosecutors said there was too little evidence to bring a case.

A White House spokesperson for Trump referred questions about the Florida findings to the president’s campaign. A spokesperson for the campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

Scott spokesperson Chris Hartline said the senator and his staff “appreciate the hard work” of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

"Senator Scott’s goal has always been 100% participation and 0% fraud,” wrote Hartline in an email. “During the 2018 recount, certain Supervisors of Elections were openly disregarding state laws that were meant to prevent fraud, as confirmed by multiple court decisions.”

While the Florida Department of Law Enforcement found no fraud, the new supervisor of elections in Broward County, Pete Antonacci, did.

Reviewing the 2018 election, Antonacci, a Republican, found 21 cases of people who illegally voted twice and one instance of a noncitizen who voted unlawfully. Out of more 709,180 ballots cast in the county, those cases brought the potential fraud rate to 0.003 percent.

Antonacci forwarded the cases last year to the office of Broward State Attorney Mike Satz. A spokesperson for the office was unable to provide a status of the cases to POLITICO.


Antonacci “does not believe there is widespread voter fraud,” said spokesperson Steve Vancore.

And absentee ballot requests in Broward are quadrupling amid the coronavirus pandemic even as Republicans, who once embraced mail-in voting, increasingly complain of fraud, he said.

Charles Franklin, a political scientist and pollster with Marquette University in Wisconsin, said Trump has added voting by mail to the list of GOP concerns about election security, noting there’s “a touch of irony after North Carolina,” where a Republican operative faces criminal charges for absentee ballot tampering in a congressional race, a rare case in which mail-in voting fraud appeared to tip a major election.

Miami, which has had ahistory of shady elections, had a high-profile absentee ballot fraud case in 1997 that overturned a mayoral race involving Republicans. The following year, Florida Republicans narrowly won a U.S. Senate seat thanks to absentee ballots.

And even as he complained about mail-in voting, Trump himself cast an absentee ballot in the presidential primary earlier this year in Florida, where he recently declared his residence.

He has continued to attack mail-in voting and raised the specter of election fraud, even as it blew back on a newly hired campaign aide.

Republican concerns with election security increased markedly after the 2000 Florida presidential recount. But Republicans became more likely to talk about election fraud, Franklin said, after mail-in ballots flipped Washington’s governor’s race for Democrats in 2004 and Minnesota’s Senate race flipped for Democrats in 2008 after a recount.

Franklin said he understands why people would be suspicious of election results that flipped after recounts, but the reaction to Florida’s 2018 election made little sense.

“Now what happened in Florida, oh my goodness!” he said with a hint of wholesome Midwestern surprise. “That happens in every election. Late counts can come from a heavily Democratic area of the state — or a Republican area, whatever delays the count — and it changes the results statewide.”


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Nana H

I think the resistance to voting by mail is rooted largely in a basic distrust of one' s fellow citizens. It doesn' t even enter my mind that significant numbers of people would actually cast an illegal vote.

ETA ....I used the word significant for lack of a better one. I mean numbers so small as to be virtually negligible.

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Kitchenwitch111

Trump’s just against Democrats voting by mail. It’s OK for Republicans though.

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KarenS, NYC

Some folks are missing the obvious:

"you never hear them say we need to protect the vote."

It's ALL about securing the vote & only about securing the vote. If it may not be safe to go to voting places, this would be the best alternate way to vote.

Mail in votes will make it easier to keep the Russians out of our business (sorry Vladimir).
As has been said repeatedly this week, since the mail is secure enough for SSN, Stimulus payments, Taxes, etc. it should be fine for voting too.

Another distracting nothing burger.

Nice to know DJT's whole family votes absentee ballot, yet he'd disallow the same for others. So typically Donnie, just him & his & the hell w/ anyone else.

I think finally enough folks have come to see that DJT cares for nothing except lining his pockets; giving a carp about the American People never even gets on his radar. He simply does not know how to care for anyone else.

Ask Melania or maybe her son Barron. The 1st Mrs.Trump (Ivana) is on record as basically saying DJT didn't really interact w/their kids until they were adults.

(Except of course, for photo opps where he can pose inappropriately w/ his adolescent daughter.)

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Current Resident(z4 WI)

OP, they are not "terrified.' They are suppressing the vote in a cold, calculating manner.

Im sorry but this type of sensationalist headline really irks me. Like - Trump is supposedly "scared." No he isnt. Sociopaths do not feel human emotion.

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

"I think the resistance to voting by mail is rooted largely in a basic distrust of one's fellow citizens."

That's ironic after listening to people disparage their fellow citizens so readily in regards to the pandemic and ascribe all sorts of nefarious motives to them.

I think it is distrust of our leaders, not distrust of fellow citizens, that drives the skepticism about mail-in ballots being given out like candy with no method for minimizing abuses. It is more likely that those who are entrusted with ensuring the integrity of the vote will be the ones with their grimy political thumbs on the scale, not fellow citizens necessarily.

It's not like that hasn't happened before.

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elvis

Pls Explain: Why are Trump & the FRW so Terrified of Mail In Voting?

"Terrified"? Um, no. Not terrified.

Who is Randy Rainbow?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I think if anything, sending a ballot to everyone on the voter registry *reduces* the risk of fraud.

If I know I’m supposed to get a ballot and it never shows up, I’m going to find out why. If I don’t intend to use it, I’m going to destroy it.

But if I haven’t registered to vote by mail and someone else votes fraudulently in my name I might never know.

If all the ballots are arriving by mail there is a lesser chance any will grow legs and walk away because the process will presumably be watched more deliberately.

If the military can manage to do it, so can States. The message from leaders at all levels should be MAKE SURE YOUR VOTER REGISTRATION IS UP TO DATE with correct name and address.

I agree with Nana that to presume there would be widespread fraud if everyone can vote by mail is to presume that our fellow citizens are untrustworthy. The vast, overwhelming, YUGE majority of people are able to be trusted with the vote in whatever form it takes. If not, what does that say about the state of our Republic?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“It is more likely that those who are entrusted with ensuring the integrity of the vote will be the ones with their grimy political thumbs on the scale, not fellow citizens necessarily.”

This is a concern with any type of voting though.

I don’t have to be a hard core conspiracy theorist to feel a little uneasy when I find out that Ivanka obtained voting machine trademarks in China or that Russia has the ability to manipulate voter rolls.

Neither of those things are dependent on the trustworthiness of average *Americans* and I see neither of them appearing on signs at protests that are purportedly advocating for “more secure” elections.

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Annie Deighnaugh

If only the gop were more even handed in their approach.

I do want my election systems to be safe, secure and accurate. I want to make sure that there aren't stuffed ballot boxes magically appearing or people hacking voting systems to make sure that every third vote is automatically one for the gop or the dems.

However, at the same time, I want to make voting accessible. I want to encourage people to vote and to get as many people voting as possible regardless of state, color, political party, or anything else. I want the polling places to be fairly and conveniently distributed without making voting an undue burden on anyone. Or that voter registration lists aren't tampered with so legitimate voters are not denied their right to vote, or unknowingly removed from the list with no way of knowing until they show up at the polling place. And I want people to feel comfortable casting their votes and not be intimidated by armed enforcers or threatened in any other way.

But it seems to me, the gop goal is only restricting access to votes as much as possible. They don't seem to care at all about fairness or even handedness. They just want to win, and if that means interfering with citizens' rights to vote, so be it. And that's just wrong.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

I suspect a number of people don't quite understand that in person voting at a polling place is not always so very secure. I work in a building that's used as a polling place and the equipment is brought in days before the election and kept in an unsecured storeroom. After the election, equipment is stored in that same unsecured location for several days before being removed.

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Nana H

I would be much more concerned about voting machines being hacked than I would be of mail in ballots.

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olliesmom

elvis, LOL!

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KarenS, NYC

Carol,

Sounds fishy, how is it you know of this?

Have you tried to report that to your local Board of Elections?

Maybe local polling place workers can take shifts sitting w/ the equipment, both before & after voting. Yikes.

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terezosa / terriks

If the voter doesn't return the ballot for whatever reason, someone else could conceivably pick it up, cast their own vote, and send it in on the voter's behalf.

Couldn't happen. The envelope has to be signed, and the signature is matched against the voter registration card.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Hypothetically, the one doing the comparing could decide that a fraudulent signature “matches.”

It’s all rather far-fetched and requires a belief that fellow Americans are untrustworthy.

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kadefol

Voter fraud is punishable by prison, so the reward for voting fraudulently would have to exceed the risk. Just what sort of reward would fraudulent voters get and what would be their incentive?

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Exposing ALEC: How Conservative-Backed State Laws Are All Connected
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/04/exposing-alec-how-conservative-backed-state-laws-are-all-connected/255869/


April 14, 2012

A shadowy organization uses corporate contributions to sell prepackaged
conservative bills -- such as Florida's Stand Your Ground statute -- to
legislatures across the country.



To itself, ALEC is an organization dedicated to the advancement of free
market and limited government principles through a unique
"public-private partnership" between state legislators and the corporate
sector. To its critics, it's a shadowy back-room arrangement where
corporations pay good money to get friendly legislators to introduce
pre-packaged bills in state houses across the country. Started in the
mid-1970s, ALEC's existence has been long known but its practices,
largely, have not; the group hasn't been eager to tie its bills in
Wisconsin to those in Ohio to those in North Carolina.

Nine months ago, though, a website called ALEC Exposed
went live, showcasing more than 800 so-called model bills contributed
by, the site's creators say, a still-anonymous whistleblower. Beyond the
bills themselves, the group built out a wide-ranging, sometimes
confusing wiki aimed at documenting which legislators take part in the
group, which corporations support it, and where the bills go once they
leave ALEC.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

ALEC's Legislative Agenda on Voting Rights

https://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_%26_Voting_Rights


Through the American Legislative Exchange Council,
on ALEC task forces, corporate lobbyists and special interests vote as
equals with elected representatives on templates to change our laws,
behind closed doors with no press or public allowed to see the votes or
deliberations. ALEC has produced model legislation aimed at making it
more difficult to vote, specifically for the elderly, minorities,
low-income, and college students. In addition, ALEC's model bills on
voting rights include measures opposing a national popular vote to elect
the president and citizen ballot initiatives, along with a measure
supporting the controversial Citizens United decision.

Restricting the Right to Vote

  • ALEC's "Voter ID Act"
    makes it more difficult for American citizens to vote. It would change
    ID rules so that citizens who have been registered to vote for decades
    must show certain kinds of ID in order to vote. This bill
    disenfranchises many low-income, minority, college students and elderly
    Americans who do not have driver's licenses but have typically used
    other forms of ID.
  • ALEC's "Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act"
    requires evidence of U.S. citizenship be presented by every person to
    register to vote and at the polling place prior to voting. This act is
    ostensibly aimed at undocumented immigrants, but requires every voter to
    show an ID. The bill would end up disenfranchising many elderly people,
    students, and minorities who may not have the required forms.
  • ALEC's "Resolution on Military Voting Rights"
    expresses opposition to the 2009 MOVE Act, legislation passed to ensure
    military ballots are delivered in the shortest possible time. ALEC's
    complaint is that the legislation only allows one express mail carry to
    be used. Both FedEx and UPS are members of ALEC.

Supporting Controversial Citizens United Decision

Opposing Popular Election of the President

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

So in essence ALEC = Deep State?

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

ALEC meets the definition of Deep State:

A deep state (from Turkish: derin devlet, also known as a state within a state,
is a type of governance made up of networks of power operating
independently of a state's political leadership in pursuit of their own
agenda and goals.

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Annie Deighnaugh

ALEC deserves it's own thread...it's worthy of attention.

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Olychick


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KarenS, NYC

Gee, I wonder, could that be 'cause the Russian meddling helped him win, while apparently the mail in vote is something he thinks he'll lose. One can only hope!

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mrskjun(9)

So there was "Russian" election meddling? Prove it!

"T
he fearmongering over Russian election “interference” might be the most destructive moral panic in American political life since the Red Scare. Then again, to be fair, those who prosecuted the post-war hunt for Communists had the decency to uncover a handful of infiltrators. We’ve yet to meet a single American who’s been brainwashed or had their vote snatched away by an SVR Twitterbot. Probably because no such person exists."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/02/russian-election-meddling-claims-still-a-scam/

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