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melle_sacto_gw

Deciduous shrub help ID please ???

Would anyone be able to help me ID these two unknown shrubs, to help me determine whether to keep or remove? We moved in last spring and I'm finally getting around to making the backyard "ours".
I'm in northern CA, zone 9/14. They are deciduous and about 5' tall no idea of age. They are so "blah". maybe they have fall color but I can't remember so it must not have been amazing. They are planted next to a fence that has creaping fig and star Jasmine. Overall kind of vase shaped I guess and leaves are about 1" long with inconspicuous flowers.

Comments (22)

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    Original Author
    4 years ago

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    They're certainly Euonymus of some description and I think I can see the winged stems of E alatus.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago

    Definitely Euonymus alatus, burning bush. Not yet considered an invasive species along the west coast. And it should develop very strong red fall color (the source of the common name) and that's really its only significant attribute...otherwise a big green lump.

    How well it might color up in fall in Sacramento is up for grabs....your climate may not allow for the best in fall color development.

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    you know what? that shrub name is on the list of plants from the previous owners landscape plan so that's probably what they are. i see them sending out shrub runners as well.

    So sounds like no good reason to keep them! Gardengal you're absolutely right they are big green lumps!!! I'd rather grow something beautiful in the full sun along the fence.

  • Embothrium
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Definitely winged euonymus and probably the much sold and planted 'Compactus'. One of the common names is burning bush in reference to the very high degree of autumn coloration produced by all but heavily shaded specimens. But maybe climate conditions in your location happen to interfere with good fall color from this plant somehow. As for "blah" to me deciduous euonymus species stand out for maintaining a distinctively clean and fresh appearance during the growing season. Followed by sometimes startling fruits from certain kinds as well as often lovely, if not stunning (as with E. alatus) fall leaf displays. And 'Compactus' specifically has a dense, arching branching habit that is pleasant in aspect even when the shrub is leafless - there are reasons this one has been a commercial staple in the past.

    Seeding out to a nuisance degree - as in forming thickets in native woodlands - is not common with burning bush here in the dry summer half of the country.


  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I'm going to take another photo of them from further away. they don't add anything to the narrow bed running in front of the fence; I'd much rather grow flowers. my son bought me a Spanish lavender because we had one at the old house and a row of those along the fence would be lovely!

  • Embothrium
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    See now to me lavender is the epitome of a shrub that becomes blah looking, a dryland scrub type in nature that often deteriorates visibly not too many years after placement in a cultivated setting. Be sure to see additional commentary on this thread, including from a party that is located down your way:

    https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5875128/in-praise-of-lavender#n=10

    Anyway regarding your burning bushes a key point is if they are or are not producing the amazing autumn color there that is seen from them elsewhere. Otherwise if they are too big now you can cut them down to a few inches and they will grow back fairly readily - this can be done every so many years indefinitely to maintain them at a lower height. Preferably at end of winter, but doing it now this time won't kill them.

    If instead you decide you just don't want them there leave the tops on so they can be pulled out with a chain, attached to a truck. If there is vehicle access. If not they will have to be dug out - an approach that could prove to be quite a bit more arduous. In either case make sure there are no buried utilities including irrigation lines running beneath where they are, that could be damaged by the removal operation.

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Truck access is definitely not a possibility. For now I'm going to trim them back a lot.


    Here the overall space--one of them is behind the azalea and the other is near the pot of lavender. That fence receives southern exposure with shade on the left/west side from a sweet Japanese maple.

    I've been trying to clean up the Vines without overdoing it; when we moved in the fence was completely covered... not my favorite look; would rather grow small perennials in the front with Vines as backdrop

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    In this photo the shrub is directly aligned with the neighbors tree that hasn't yet leaved out

    Embothrium -- they are nice and green throughout the season but so are the vines. it's just another layer of green that I don't find adds anything. And when they are leafless they disappear because the creeping fig and star Jasmine are still green.

    I'm just going to prune them back for now and see if I can get lavender cuttings to grow :-)

  • Embothrium
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    To me the burning bushes are the best looking things there, more pleasing in aspect even than the Japanese maple - which looks markedly less tidy, despite also being a kind that has arching (instead of stiffly erect, and therefore visually tense) new growth.

    You're going to have to plant a huge area of the small fuzzy lavender plants in order for them to balance the visual impact of most of the existing plants, with their larger leaves and growth habits. And these others are nearly all a lush green color that is not going to look natural with the desert gray of the lavender.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago

    It is always going to boil down to your personal opinion :-) Just being "green" is not enough of a justification to me to retain large deciduous shrubs that may or may not develop the only significant asset they have......fall color. I'd be inclined to replace them with whatever you like that might offer something of interest at other times of the season....and more reliably!! I doubt you are very limited in your choices of flowering shrubs, either evergreen or deciduous, and with options for foliage coloration as well.

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I really like the evergreen variegated pittosporum... but I'm also being a cheapskate. the backyard is pleasant as is. for now I'm planning to trim them back as i don't want to deal with digging them out we have other higher priority yard concerns.

    I'll try to encourage a more arching, spreading shape for now. they have been unfortunately shaped like rectangular hedges up until we moved in.

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Embothrium--> any suggestions for a different flowering perennial in lieu of lavender? the bed is about 2 1/2 feet wide, defined by a concrete mow strip

  • Embothrium
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Lavender is actually a woody shrub, of course. Since you're trying to develop a sort of mixed border with flowers backed by shrubs and vines choose things that look good in front of the backdrop, whatever the backdrop is at any given point along the run of it. Based on things like color contrasts and harmonies. (And differences in leaf shapes). Including making combinations driven by when and what color the maple (and presumably the euonymus) turn in autumn.

  • bengz6westmd
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Burning bushes, at least here, provide a rather valuable food-source for wintering birds, as the seeds do not spoil quickly and hang on the shrubs all winter (or until they're all gone). Just FYI.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago

    And is a primary reason just why this plant is so invasive across much of the country!! There are much better plants available that provide wildlife value with no potentially adverse effects. And living in CA, the OP is not at all short on plants that will feed birds over winter :-)

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    It is precisely because it is eaten by birds that Euonymus alatus is listed as an invasive species in many states, including Maryland. https://marylandgrows.umd.edu/2017/11/06/qa-is-burning-bush-an-invasive-plant/

    Eta gardengal's post wasn't showing when I wrote.

  • bengz6westmd
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Some perspective is required. I see ALOT of invasive plants in ALOT of areas -- right on my lot for beginners. One thing I haven't seen as invasive except maybe a couple little seedlings underneath them & rarely here & there, is burning bush (my neighbor has dozens of burning bushes and so does my brother in nearby PA). And Maryland's invasive list is untrustworthy -- they list Sawtooth oak (Quercus acutissima) because it's seen to have produced some volunteers along the interstate medians where it was purposely planted years ago (duh, that's what some trees do). But to list it as invasive is patently ridiculous. Maryland also "recommends" not to plant Norway spruce because it isn't native (Virginia recommends it for forestry plantings!). Not only ridiculous as it does not spread here, but plain stupid as we lack any native spruces that will grow well.


    PS. Preparing for the angry & self-righteous responses. Maybe I'll make a post extolling the virtues of mimosas.... ;)

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago

    Well, all I would suggest is to do a lot more research :-) Euonymus alatus is a recognized invasive in at least 25 states. And one seldom sees obvious signs of invasiveness in neighboring gardens.....it is when the plants starts rampantly spreading onto natural areas and out-competing and displacing native species that invasiveness becomes obvious and serious!

    Euonymus alatus in PA. Look at the photo in the far right bottom of the first page for an illustration of how it has colonized natural areas.

    Euonymus alatus in MD.

    Inclusion of a plant on any state or region's invasive species listing is not a frivolous undertaking. It is done when it presents a serious threat to native species, whether you can personally see that threat or not!!

    This is a bit like thinking that because you have not encountered it directly or have been exposed to those that might be (and quite likely are) carriers there is no need for social distancing with the coronavirus pandemic.

    And there is nothing "self righteous" about acknowledging invasive species DO exist and are of concern where that is the case. What is self righteous is the attitude of denial that a problem exists simply because you have not seen it to be so when authorities have established it to be fact.

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    I live near a creek so not interested in dispersing invasive plants. That said, I need to identify some replacements that would be appropriate for the area.


    Variegated pittosporum? I think they'd be adaptable to when/if we remove part of that lawn. Not ready to deal with removing the lawn and enjoy having it, but long-term I would like to reduce the amount of watering

  • Embothrium
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    The eastern states have wet summers resulting in certain E Asian plants such as burning bush thriving and going wild, to an extent that is seldom possible out here in the dry summer West.

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