Good Lord. The “hoax” thing is back

Gizmo

Good Lord. The “hoax” thing is back

Published by digby on April 8, 2020

From Brian Stelter’s newsletter:
Some of the biggest names in right-wing media are questioning the official Covid-19 death toll. Indeed, they’re suggesting the numbers might be inflated in an effort to paint President Trump and/or the crisis in the worst possible light. In recent days, a version of this theory has been floated by personalties such as Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Tucker Carlson, Brit Hume, and “Diamond & Silk.”

Hume, who previously tweeted that New York’s “fatality numbers are inflated,” tweeted on Tuesday evening, “Well Dr. [Deborah] Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid-19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid-19 death.” (This is not quite what Birx said. She explained that if someone who goes into the hospital to be treated for the virus also “had a pre-existing condition” that eventually caused the individual to die, that would be counted as a Covid-19 death.)

Hume later appeared on Carlson’s show and offered the same message he did in his tweet. “There may be reasons people seek an inaccurate death count,” Carlson replied. The Fox News prime time host added, “When journalists work with numbers, there sometimes is an agenda.”

Hume and Carlson are not alone. Levin tweeted Tuesday evening that he has “suspected this for weeks.” And Limbaugh, who initially dismissed the coronavirus as the “common cold,” said recently, “It’s admittedly speculation, but … what if we are recording a bunch of deaths to coronavirus which really should not be chalked up to coronavirus?”

The death toll is likely *UNDERSTATED*

Right-wing media luminaries are advancing their theory in the face of reporting which indicates that the coronavirus death toll is being understated. An April 5 NYT story noted, “Across the United States, even as coronavirus deaths are being recorded in terrifying numbers — many hundreds each day — the true death toll is likely much higher.”

The NYT story cited hospital officials, doctors, public health experts and medical examiners who said the official death toll doesn’t account for many people: “The undercount is a result of inconsistent protocols, limited resources and a patchwork of decision making from one state or county to the next.”
NYC Council health committee chair Mark Levine also said on Twitter the official NYC death toll “is certainly an undercount.” Levine explained, “Only people who die at home who are known to have a *positive coronavirus test* have the disease listed as the official cause on their death certificate. We know there are many others going uncounted.”
Trump was asked on Tuesday at the White House briefing about the accuracy of the death count, with a reporter suggesting it is a possible undercount because of the reasons outlined above. Trump pushed back, saying, “I think they’re pretty accurate on the death count. Somebody dies, I think the states have been pretty accurate.” Trump added, “No, the death counts, I think they are very, very accurate.” That said, given how the speculation about death counts being inflated are saturating right-wing media, it would not surprise me one bit if Trump later repeated the theory.

Of course he’s going to go with it. It may not be tomorrow or the next day. But he’ll get there.

And the fact that all those Fox News loonies are disseminating this cr*p to their millions of Trump cultists is simply horrifying. They are people without character or integrity who simply cannot ever, ever admit they are wrong. It’s one thing to engage in dirty politics. But this is next level.


They will say anything to keep Trump’s numbers down.

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ubro(2a)

Some of the biggest names in right-wing media are questioning the official Covid-19 death toll. Indeed, they’re suggesting the numbers might be inflated in an effort to paint President Trump and/or the crisis in the worst possible light. In recent days, a version of this theory has been floated by personalties such as Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Tucker Carlson, Brit Hume, and “Diamond & Silk.”

Have these guys totally lost their marbles? What is it with the right and conspiracy theories?

The death toll in the USA is ballooning and these buffoons spout drivel. This is the party of unity, morals, and fighting for the little guy?

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maifleur03

In another thread it is suggested that Trump purposely inflated the numbers because it would make him look good when the high numbers are reached. It will be interesting to see if they walk back their comments if Donnie suddenly is right. I do not think he is but I do think the number of deaths from the virus are understated.

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adoptedbyhounds

"This is not quite what Birx said. She explained that if someone who goes into the hospital to be treated for the virus also “had a pre-existing condition” that eventually caused the individual to die, that would be counted as a Covid-19 death."



Nope. The writer is confused. He didn't read her quote, which begins by referencing pre-existing conditions in other countries and how some are NOT counted as Covid19 deaths.


DR. DEBORAH BIRX: There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.



The same paragraph ends with her explaining that in the US, "...if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death."


There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.

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batyabeth

oh good lord. Dear Mr Trump: high numbers will not mean you win. Low numbers will not mean you win. This is not a contest to see whose is bigger. Your citizens are dying and there is no winning. There is only integrity in the face of disaster. Please show some. Thank you.

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lurker111

I hate to tell you this, but during the Obama years (and before) 2 million cases worldwide wouldn't be called a pandemic.

Definition of pandemic

(Entry 1 of 2)

: occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population pandemic malaria The 1918 flu was pandemic and claimed millions of lives.

pandemic noun

pan·dem·ic | \ pan-ˈde-mik

\

Definition of pandemic (Entry 2 of 2)

: an outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area and affects an exceptionally high proportion of the population : a pandemic outbreak of a disease

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heri_cles

So do you suggest we all circulate in public and attend mass gatherings since this is not at historic pandemic levels yet ?

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lurker111

I don't know, would you?

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foodonastump

What is a pandemic?

24 February 2010

A pandemic is the worldwide spread of a new disease.

An influenza pandemic occurs when a new influenza virus emerges and spreads around the world, and most people do not have immunity. Viruses that have caused past pandemics typically originated from animal influenza viruses.

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lurker111

You could say that Trump's actions of restricting travel, and other countries following his lead, prevented this from becoming a true pandemic. Stay at home, wash your hands, social distancing...I guess it worked.

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lurker111

This isn't the flu. Remember?

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lurker111

Good advice...Don't accuse the WHO of changing the definition. They will say that there never was a definition, just a description. "Description of definition" is the phrase they try to use.

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foodonastump

No one said it was the flu. They were explaining what a pandemic is, and the context at the time was a flu pandemic. First the define pandemic, then go on to the case of a flu pandemic.

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FinallyHome

I hate to tell you this, but during the Obama years (and before) 2 million cases worldwide wouldn't be called a pandemic.

It took you 23 minutes to bring up Obama's name. What took so long? Are you at lunch?

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lurker111

Obama

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tryingtounderstand
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bfox254

If the official death toll to date is 15,000 does it matter if it's actually 20,000 (under reported) or 10,000 (over reported)? It's still a significant loss of life.

I think Trump floated an inflated estimate of 200,00 lives lost because in his demented way of thinking, he'll look like a hero when the final toll comes in at a lower number.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

oh good lord. Dear Mr Trump: high numbers will not mean you win.

That's trumpmath - We have 15 and it will go to zero, it'll be like a miracle. ....later.....it could go to 200,000 and like a miracle it could explode in your face. Surprise! I was just giving you "hope"....you dope.

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ubro(2a)

You could say that Trump's actions of restricting travel, and other countries following his lead, prevented this from becoming a true pandemic.

Or you could say that Trump's actions of restricting travel and then his following inaction of taking this virus seriously, contributed to a world wide pandemic.

Other countries took their own paths, Trump is not seen as someone to emulate.

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Gooster(9)

You could say that Trump's actions of restricting travel, and other countries following his lead, prevented this from becoming a true pandemic.

>>> Or you could note that 46 countries imposed bans before the US ban went into effect, most following the WHO announcement. 20 acted before the US, with the first countries starting their bans a week or more before that.

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lurker111

You could say that, but it wouldn't be true.

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Cindy Outter

"You could say that, but it wouldn't be true."


You may want to read the article below, we would be more than happy to help if you have questions.



............

"In any case, the United States certainly was not the first country — by a long shot. We reviewed a list of country actions maintained by the Council on Foreign Relations and cross-checked with official announcements. Six countries imposed travel restrictions even before the World Health Organization declared a global health emergency on Jan. 30. Another six announced travel restrictions that same day, followed by 11 countries (besides the United States) announcing restrictions Jan. 31.

But most countries imposed the restrictions immediately. By the time Trump’s restrictions took effect Feb. 2, an additional 15 countries had taken similar actions — and in some cases enacted even tougher bans. But in any case, that adds up to 38 countries taking action before or at the same time the U.S." read more,


Trump’s claim that he imposed the first ‘China ban’

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petalique

"You could say that, but it wouldn't be true."

~~~~~~~


A myth is a thing that never was true, but always will be.”


Levi Strauss

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dandyfopp


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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Anybody else been watching The Daily Social Distancing Show? it's been helping me stay sane.

They have this helpful little video:



And there's a sequel:




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Ziemia(6a)

Those videos are inspirational, carol.

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