Trump Won't Wear Mask

Lucille(9a)
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chipotle

Vanity

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

He’s worried Putin and MBS will make fun of him. None of the cool dictators are wearing them, why should he?

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Kathy

He doesn’t even do social distancing on stage. Rules don’t include Trump, ya know.

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maddie260

It’s the hairdo problem. Too hard to redo.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Trump wears a mask, it's the orange mask he puts on every morning, it covers up the red one underneath...


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Kitchenwitch111

A mask would ruin his hair and makeup

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mr1010

They don't make a mask big enough for swelled head and helmet hair.

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foodonastump

Because anyone who gets near him has to take the rapid test.

https://apple.news/AaFb-ZdspTjG6DjkGJFntag

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AnnKH

Why isn't our president modeling good behavior?

Because there's nothing in it for him. He only behaves in ways that bring him money or cheers.

I suspect he still believes this is all a big hoax - perhaps an elaborate trick by the democrats to get him to wear a mask in public. And he's too smart to fall for it.

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Kathy

Melania tweeted urging Americans to wear masks shortly after Trump said he wouldn’t. He also looked at the eclipse of the sun without glasses or protection. Not too bright.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

And I thought half this forum would be cheering!

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AnnKH

Lack of leadership in the Oval Office is not cause for celebration.

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Michele

I remember him looking up at the eclipse. First thing I thought of.

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heri_cles

They don't make a mask big enough ..

Maybe the Right side of a D cup bra from one of his Russian models

https://twitter.com/HopClear/status/1237204127286841344

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Lisa

Remember to speak clearly and enunciate.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Here is what he actually said:

"Somehow sitting in the Oval Office, behind that beautiful Resolute Desk," Trump said, indicating he thought it would be uncomfortable wearing a mask as he met with "presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens – I don’t know, somehow I don’t see it for myself."

Dictators? Since when is dictator considered a title? SMH


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Nana H

Does he really think any of those folks are getting on a plane anytime soon to come see him? I think they are all pretty busy.

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zmith

Trump won’t wear a mask, because he doesn’t want to appear weak. Plain and simple.

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Karen S. (7b, NYC)(NYC, zone 6)

Guess His Orangeness hasn't noticed that no foreign leaders are traveling anywhere these days. Guess he hasn't noticed that the rest of the world is largely on lockdown too.

Sarcasm aside, perhaps not wanting to appear weak is part of it but mostly, it's the hair, w/out a doubt.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I think the mask would help his "look".

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vgkg (Va Z-7)


Trump could put on this mask and his approval rating would jump 30 points, for a few seconds, but then drop 30 points once it was realized as just another cover up.

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Elizabeth

Classic narcissism.

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kadefol

This is why:


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dandyfopp

How many people in Donnies orbit tested positive again?




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zinnia

Trump's "brilliant" explanation on why he's not a fan of testing.


Listen to your president. https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1261017121078861826


"Make sure we don't run out of pregnancy tests. All births would stop."

--Kurt Eichenwald

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dandyfopp

Dope sounds doped, as usual.


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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

Notice the additional fool with the mask pulled down off his nose and most of his mouth in the Allentown picture (above). I see people doing that in my area also, apparently for them how the mask feels on their face is more important than participating in containment of a nasty, sometimes lethal virus.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Nyuk, bet some trumpsters see the Shroud of Turin above.

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how2girl

Yes that was noticed. On a talk show here they spoke to a woman in the US who’d cut the centre section out of her mask - she said it made it easier to breath. SMH.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Mouth-breathers.

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lurker111

Juvenile.

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maifleur03

I noticed a story this morning about how there are questions about how affective the type tests at the WH are. It may have been a story that Fox picked up from back in April or a new concern. I considered the testing at the WH is currently too late. The people are testing positive have had the virus for a while. This virus like any type needs to be in the body long enough to grow. Since they tested positive they have been shedding the virus in small amounts. Will be interesting to see how soon this dawns on Trump etal.

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heri_cles

Just to be clear, I am not saying that I would not mind seeing Trump contract Covid-19 to teach hm a lesson.

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maifleur03

heri_cles Boris Johnson also thought similar to Trump. Until he developed the virus and almost died. I too would think that a moderate infection could change the direction of this country.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I have also assumed it was the problem with his heavy makeup that would rub off. According to an article written about his illegal immigrant housekeepers from his Bedminster golf club he ruins a lot of shirts with his makeup.

Testing wise the stats on that fast test are grim-as much as 50% false negatives or positives I suppose. I had previously heard 15% which is bad enough. I suppose if you keep testing sooner or later the person will test positive but shedding the whole time. Trump doesn't look like a person who ought to risk this disease but I assume he thinks it is only dangerous to other people.

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dandyfopp

He is too vain for a mask, it would make him look weak.

And he is fat, sweaty and can sound breathless under normal circumstances, a mask would make it harder to breathe.

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blfenton

TRUMP: "When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn't do any testing we would have very few cases.

By this logic just think of how many fewer cancer cases there would be or mental health issues and you probably wouldn't even need a medical system! s/


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Nana H

A stable genius.....and they talk about Biden ! Spare me Lord!

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barncatz

Remember Trump's health letter "from his Dr" during the campaign? It stated that Trump tested positive on all his health tests. Trump obviously hasn't picked up a lot since he wrote that letter. Makes you wonder if any CDC experts actually marveled over his medical comprehension, as he claimed, doesn't it?

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Olychick


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Kathy

Trump thinks he can magically detract from the deaths of covid if he doesn’t wear a mask and makes tests scarce. It is a dangerous theory and one that will plague Americans for years as we struggle to conquer this virus. He is the biggest stumbling block to our health.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I am absolutely sure that CDC experts marveled over Trumps medical comprehension.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Can you just imagine he putting a mask on and have orange makeup smear all over it and then have whatever holds down his hair pop up when he takes it off to speak?

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Penny

I’d pay to see that.

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barncatz

Ha, patriciae! I get your point, lol.

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cattyles

I think it’s surely because of that orange pancake makeup.

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Joaniepoanie

A mask wouldn't fit around his Pinocchio nose.

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krprovencio

President TRump is tested frequently for Covid-19 and since he knows he doesn’t have it there is no need for him to wear a mask. Anyone that is going to come into close contact with him is also tested. Most masks people are wearing do not really do any good for prevention of the mask wearer getting Covid-19....these masks are really about preventing the mask wearer from infecting anyone else if they are asymptomatic. This is why President Trump is not wearing a mask.

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Joaniepoanie

How about setting a good example for the country when science experts are saying we should wear masks?

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socks(10a)

There is no defending his not wearing a mask no matter what its purpose. He should be a role model for all Americans, but he fails that. Instead his a world-class laughingstock.

He's not wearing a mask because he thinks he might look foolish. He is.

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Kathsgrdn

Because he has no regard for anyone else's life.

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cattyles

How’d that theory work with Miller’s wife, krprovencio? She exposed trump and the Rapid Tests being used at the WH have a high false negative rate.

If at no other time, trump should have been respectful and protective enough of those very elderly war vets to wear a mask.

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bleusblue2

krprovencio

President TRump is tested frequently for Covid-19 and since he knows he doesn’t have it there is no need for him to wear a mask. Anyone that is going to come into close contact with him is also tested. Most masks people are wearing do not really do any good for prevention of the mask wearer getting Covid-19....these masks are really about preventing the mask wearer from infecting anyone else if they are asymptomatic. This is why President Trump is not wearing a mask.

~~~

He isn't sure that he hasn't been infected and you can't be sure of that either. He's shaking in his boots and so should anybody who comes near him.

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deegw


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Kathy

The Abbott tests have 50% false negative rate.

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patriciae_gw(07)

And Trump is being tested with Abbott tests. Ahem.

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Joaniepoanie

It’s been nine days since his valet was tested and seven since Katie. Still possible Trump could get it but the average incubation period is 5-7 days. It would be really something if Miller escapes it.

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zinnia


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abzzybee(9/10 S. Florida)

I admit the mask is hot, makes glasses fog up and just a plain annoyance to have to deal with but I wear it everywhere except in my own home. Working from home affords me the luxury of only going anywhere once every 8 to 10 days for groceries. Isn't vanity some type of sin? If it isn't it's a poor excuse for NOT setting a good example.

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gale_t

Vanity is one reason also if he wears a mask (in his mind, scary place) he's admitting there's a problem with the virus. Along the same lines, he disregards testing because it makes him look bad. It's all in the Word of Trump

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Kathy

I thought it was totally disrespectful to the people around him not to wear a mask. It just shows how callous he is and unimportant everyone is to him.

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live_wire_oak

He doesn’t want his covidiots to make the connection.



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Stan Areted

We were told by the MULTIPLE EXPERTS not to wear masks.

We know that the virus is small enough to penetrate just about every mask citizens don that aren't an N 95.

If it makes you feel better wear a mask.

Spending time tsk tsking about other people not wearing masks is petty.




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jmm1837

Interesting. The advice about masks came from the CDC, who I would regard as being pretty expert. So who are your "multiple experts?" Most of the multiple experts I've read or watched say masks aren't a guarantee, but are part of a number of measures which, practised together, lower risk.


So, what's petty is a person in a leadership position, with enormous influence on at least a part of the public,undercutting the advice of his own agencies and experts and ignoring the greater good because he personally doesn't like wearing a mask.

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Olychick

What I don't get is, let's say masks aren't as effective as we hope. But people wear them anyway. What is the harm to them for wearing masks? A little inconvenience maybe?

But if the mask deniers are wrong and they ARE effective, what is the harm done from NOT wearing masks? Illness, death, spread of the virus, hospitals overwhelmed and medical personnel put at risk unnecessarily.

It's a no brainer. Oops, there's the problem.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Whether Homemade masks or N95, filtering out virus particles is nearly impossible. The masks function for blocking a person's "spray" when coughing, talking, etc which carries the virus.

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socks(10a)

I saw a video showing the illuminated spray of a cough without a mask and with a mask. There was still some with the mask but less.

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Stan Areted

jmm1837:

Interesting. The advice about masks came from the CDC, who I would regard as being pretty expert. So who are your "multiple experts?" Most of the multiple experts I've read or watched say masks aren't a guarantee, but are part of a number of measures which, practised together, lower risk.




What is interesting is that you apparently don't understand that is WAS THE CDC THAT I REFERRED TO, as well as others, that told us DO NOT WEAR MASKS.

So, to answer your question about my "multiple experts,"

The CDC. The Surgeon General. Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.


I shouldn't have to explain this, but I guess some weren't paying attention when I was in March. Time to catch up for those that were not:

"Though health officials have warned Americans to prepare for the spread of the novel coronavirus in the U.S., people shouldn’t wear face masks to prevent the spread of the infectious illness, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the U.S. surgeon general.

But that’s not the only reason Americans may want to think twice about using masks, one expert told MarketWatch.

Most people don’t know how to use face masks correctly, and a rush to buy masks could prevent the people who need them most — health care providers — from getting them, said Dr. Amesh Adalja, a scholar at the Center for Health Security at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

In fact the U.S. surgeon general recently urged the public to “STOP BUYING MASKS!” “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!,” wrote Surgeon General Jerome Adams." Marketwatch March 2, 2020

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deegw

Today's date is May 17, 2020. Expert advice regarding mask-wearing has been updated.

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Nana H

Much has been learned about this NOVEL coronavirus in the last 6 weeks and we will learn much more in the months to come. It is to be expected that as new information becomes available original assumptions will be found to be incorrect. The best we can do is go with the most current information and directives.

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Stan Areted

deegw

Today's date is May 17, 2020. Expert advice regarding mask-wearing has been updated.


Nana H

Much has been learned about this NOVEL coronavirus in the last 6 weeks and we will learn much more in the months to come.


Tell that to gullible people.

Researchers knew from the get go the micron size of the COVID 19 virus particles and they knew which masks would protect and which wouldn't. N 95 does. Not your homemade masks. We KNOW THAT.

So the "we've learned so much" mantra doesn't cut it in respect to wearing masks, nor does it excuse the earlier response that totally ignored the FACT that I was right and that medical experts did INDEED TELL US NOT TO WEAR MASKS.

Additionally, from symptoms to the type of damage to the body, to communicability of the disesase, to the claims that primarily only older people would die and that children almost certainly wouldn't be affected, the "experts" have vacillated wildly from one end of the spectrum to the other.

From the experts to the media the kitchen sink is thrown at this situation, and as I said, wear a mask, stay home, wash your hands. Many of us will do the same.

Some won't.

But if people are going to make claims, they should educate themselves to what has taken place--knowing what the CDC and MEDICAL EXPERTS and MODEL predictors told us earlier--and how wrong they have been pretty much across the board--give those of us with non prejudiced reasoning skills information to not believe everything we're told.


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Annie Deighnaugh

What we don't know is how politicized the earlier recommendation was about not wearing masks as, at the same time they were telling us not to, the wh was building a cache of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-us-discouraged-mask-use-for-public-white-house-team-raced-to-secure-face-coverings-from-taiwan-for-senior-staff/2020/04/15/27d815d2-7ac5-11ea-a130-df573469f094_story.html

In mid-March, a National Security Council team rushed to address what they saw as a threat to the U.S. government’s ability to function amid the advancing pandemic: a lack of masks to protect enough staff on the White House complex.

Alarmed by the small cache and the growing signs of an acute shortage of protective gear in the United States, a senior NSC official turned to a foreign government for help, according to people familiar with the situation.

The effort resulted in a donation of hundreds of thousands of surgical masks from Taiwan, which had plentiful domestic production and had sharply curtailed the spread of the coronavirus on the island.

The bulk of Taiwan’s goodwill shipment went to the Strategic National Stockpile, but 3,600 masks were set aside for White House staff and officials, administration officials said.


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deegw

Today's date is May 17. Fact.

Expert advice regarding mask-wearing has been updated. Fact.


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studio10001

Well, which is it, my friend, they were right early on, or they were wrong across the board?

Seems to me that guidelines have been updated as supplies became more available, and that less than perfect protection still beats none. Everyone knows what was said in March. What you call wild vacillation since then is wildly held to be new information by everyone else. The inability to take on new information is unfortunate.

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Nana H

"Tell that to gullible people"

Maybe you are right maybe we should listen to a real " pro ".....the warm weather will make it disappear, hydroxychloroquine has tremendous potential to be a game changer, bleach taken internally may be the answer. Gullible people are listening........to Trump.

Why not wear a mask ? To quote a stable genius "what have you got to lose"

edited

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Stan Areted

The reasons don't matter.


"Your homemade mask will NOT guarantee protection against the Covid 19 virus.As the new coronavirus COVID-19 spreads in the U.S., people who are well want to stay that way. But since no vaccines are currently available, the strongest weapons Americans have are basic preventive measures like hand-washing and sanitizing surfaces, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

The simplicity of those recommendations is likely unsettling to people anxious to do more to protect themselves, so it’s no surprise that face masks are in short supply—despite the CDC specifically not recommending them for healthy people trying to protect against COVID-19. “It seems kind of intuitively obvious that if you put something—whether it’s a scarf or a mask—in front of your nose and mouth, that will filter out some of these viruses that are floating around out there,” says Dr. William Schaffner, professor of medicine in the division of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University. The only problem: that’s not likely to be effective against respiratory illnesses like the flu and COVID-19. If it were, “the CDC would have recommended it years ago,” he says. “It doesn’t, because it makes science-based recommendations.”

The science, according to the CDC, says that surgical masks won’t stop the wearer from inhaling small airborne particles, which can cause infection. Nor do these masks form a snug seal around the face. The CDC recommends surgical masks only for people who already show symptoms of coronavirus and must go outside, since wearing a mask can help prevent spreading the virus by protecting others nearby when you cough or sneeze. The agency also recommends these masks for caregivers of people infected with the virus."

Time Magazine updated April 3 to note newer recommendations wearing masks.

Note that the recommendations do NOT note any change in the size of the Covid 19 virus particles nor the size of particles allowed by homemade masks.

As noted, wear a mask if you want. Go for it. Sleep better.

But it won't guarantee you don't get COVID 19 and others aren't going to do it because it makes you FEEL safer. I suspect finger pointing, finger wagging, and public outbursts about mask wearing are going to be problematic.




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Stan Areted

Nana, "what have you got to lose" wearing a mask?

NOTHING! WEAR ONE!


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Stan Areted

Inability to take on new information?

At what juncture?

Look at the wild variances in information--that's different than minor adjustments.

We are being played and have been from the get go about this virus, starting with China and the fool in the UK Neil Ferguson whose work MOST OF WHAT HAS RUINED OUR ECONOMY because President Trump and others took his information and made decisions based on it, (Epidemiologist Ferguson ignored his own "expertise" and broke social safety distance rules in the most SERIOUS of ways by meeting his concubine for a tryst). Add the CDC who insisted on their own tests, they were incompetent.

I now know someone with COVID and it is serious. Very serious, recuperating but underlying conditions. I know of five others, some were hospitalized, some not. It's nothing to play with. But to shut down our economy this long?

The GOAL was to "flatten the curve" so that our hospitals were not overrun.

They weren't. Now the "goal" is to control people and ruin our economy until there is a vaccine and then some think people should be FORCED to take a vaccine. Oh yes, and until the election.

There's going to be a lot of problems from here on out.

Even PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS PLAYED and he no doubt knows it, but he didn't want to take the chance on the 2 million the Fool Ferguson predicted.

Wear your masks. I may wear mine if I am around people, but there is no true science to it and at least I would never insist anyone else wear one.

But then, I'm not a controlling finger wagger.

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Nana H

"But it won't guarantee you don't get COVID 19 "

If you listen to what the experts are saying, masks don't prevent the wearer from getting COVID rather it helps in reducing the risk the wearer will spread it to others.

" and others aren't going to do it because it makes you FEEL safer."

That is the sad truth.....some won't wear a mask for the well being of others. They have no concept to doing something for the benefit of the other guy.

Not only that but if you ask them to wear a mask some may spit on you, break your arm or shoot you....'cause they have rights.

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Annie Deighnaugh


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Tilly Teabag

Studio, your longer post upthread shows your frustration. If you ever need a sounding board my messages are open.

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studio10001

I'm not a controlling finger wagger.

Sure you are. That entire post is finger wagging. And wildly vacillating.

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Joaniepoanie

Who said wearing a mask would guarantee you won’t get Covid? Exactly no one.

You may have the virus and be asymptomatic. The average incubation period is 5-7 days. Wearing a mask helps prevent my Covid germs from getting to you. I wear a mask to give at least some protection to myself, but more to protect you should I have it unknowingly. You think retail personnel are happy when you show up for groceries, prescriptions, petunias not wearing a mask?

Many in my area do not wear masks. A week after “reopening“ saw nearly a thousand new cases in a 24 hour period.

But have at it. Hope you’ll be able to attend a Trump rally soon.

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Joaniepoanie

“Now the "goal" is to control people and ruin our economy until there is a vaccine and then some think people should be FORCED to take a vaccine. Oh yes, and until the election. “

*****

We have to save the economy even if it means people die—-says the guy who is tested every day.


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studio10001

Thanks, Tilly. I hope it is productive to let some frustration be shown to the people causing it. I have employees that are crying at work, others that just aren't coming at all. I am personally insulted by people who talk down mask wearing, and simultaneously complain that the country isn't opening, or isn't opening fast enough. You bear complete responsibility in the speed of this. Our workers are expendable to you, they know it, and they are taking themselves out before you can do it for them. The rest is nonsense - if you feel that community health requirements are controlling you, then stay out of the community.

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Nana H

Stan, if the local government mandates masks for certain jobs or in certain social situations do you think it is OK to choose to ignore/disobey those rules.

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Stan Areted

I don't bear any responsibility but for myself.

My opinion is only an opinion, no more or no less important than your opinion or anyone else's on this subject.

None of us here make policy, and the people that do, don't have the control they think they do.

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Stan Areted

If an employer mandates a mask and that person wants to keep their job, absolutely.

Of they can try not doing it or find another job, whatever. FREEDOM.

I already answered--if you want to wear a mask, it doesn't do any harm (in most cases, except for the lady that had a wreck wearing in the car and didn't get enough oxygen, or the jogger that passed out, etc.) WEAR IT.

Don't wear it.

The reasons for NOT wearing it are still valid.

But no one should be fooled that they're truly protected against this virus and people should not approach others, yell at them, lecture them for not wearing one.

But that's typically what liberals do--get up in the business of others.

If people are uncomfortable or angry about what others do, then they should go somewhere else where people act like they do. They shouldn't support certain businesses. They should get delivery. There are options--but people are NOT going to change their lives to march lock step to make a paranoid liberal happy.

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Nana H

Studio, I feel for you and your employees. The abuse people are getting from those who request them to wear a mask is appalling. If you are requested to wear a mask and don't want to them leave the establishment but to verbally abuse ,or worse yet physically abuse, the person requesting it is deplorable behaviour.

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Nana H

"If an employer mandates a mask and that person wants to keep their job, absolutely."

Stan, I don't know if you were addressing me but my question was not about an employee refusing to wear a mask , I was asking if employers had the right to refuse to obey a mandate from local government. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Why everyone should wear a mask....

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studio10001

BS. This isn't about liberals. This is about community safety. Employees do not have the option of getting in anybody's face about anything, and they could care less about politics right now. They still smile because it is their job.. Meanwhile security personnel are being screamed at, shot in the head, pushed into ponds, punched in the face, spat on, and screamed at by paranoid wackos who think that their rights are being taken away by community mandates ( none of these mandates has teeth, and Costco is the only company setting an actual standard for itself - they are within their right to).

I agree w this:If people are uncomfortable or angry about what others do, then they should go somewhere else where people act like they do. They shouldn't support certain businesses. They should get delivery. There are options--but people are NOT going to change their lives to march lock step.

Fixed it for you.

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Ann

"However. You are going to get some clapback from me, and others like me. We do not need to clean your teeth, process your prescriptions, cater to your need for tacos, or wait on you in the checkout line. I am personally sending everyone like you to wait for someone else ( who has no other loved one to worry about and doesn't mind being ostracized by coworkers that do) to get around to you -or not. We do not need your business. We do not appreciate your lack of respect for others. We have zero motivation to give you anything more than perfunctory service. We hate people like you. We will smile at you anyway. We are grinding dirt from our shoes into your tacos. We may miss a cavity for a few visits. We may need to call for a manager to help you, because we are leaving the room for as long as you are in it. The manager hates you, too. Have a nice day. Come see us again."

WOW!

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Ann

"others aren't going to do it because it makes you FEEL safer"

I think this is certainly true. What others do is entirely their choice and I think that's the way it should be. This desire to control others has gone off the rails.

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Stan Areted

Nana H:

Stan, I don't know if you were addressing me but my question was not about an employee refusing to wear a mask , I was asking if employers had the right to refuse to obey a mandate from local government. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

I see. I do not know. That query comes down to me to a legal question--one that would require research about individual rights and rights of government, and even then in these unique circumstances there may not be a controlling precedent.

You see, there is no proof that wearing a mask prevents transmission of the virus.

As far as my personal opinion, right now the libertarian in me says if it's not a law that has been upheld by the highest court, probably not.



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studio10001

Nan, the sad thing is that most businesses are not complying - mine included. Everyone has had to make adjustments re entering ( temp at the door for medical offices, reduced amount of occupants) but there is only a sign in the door re masks and social distancing - most places have determined that they can do no more than post the sign, for the safety of both workers and others in line who might get caught up in an altercation.


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Ann

"If people are uncomfortable or angry about what others do, then they should go somewhere else where people act like they do. They shouldn't support certain businesses. They should get delivery. There are options--but people are NOT going to change their lives to march lock step to make a paranoid liberal happy."

Very true, and less and less so. I think tons of citizens of this country have had it with petty tiny tyrants, both in leadership roles of government and as people living in our neighborhoods.

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Ann

"If you are requested to wear a mask and don't want to them leave the establishment but to verbally abuse ,or worse yet physically abuse, the person requesting it is deplorable behaviour."

Yup, and the other way around. If you go to a doctor's office and a person sits next to you in the waiting room without a mask, you have the option to move rather than criticize and judge!

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bleusblue2

Stan Areted

....

"In fact the U.S. surgeon general recently urged the public to “STOP BUYING MASKS!” “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!,” wrote Surgeon General Jerome Adams." Marketwatch March 2, 2020"

~~~~

This flip flop made me angy -- it was an trick to keep us from buying masks that were needed by front line workers. But it wasn't said RECENTLY.

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Ann

"Please take the time to use your own words to fashion a response, not sully mine

and arrogantly change it, then say "fixed it for you."

You did NOTHING for me.

Use your own brain and your own words, it's not that difficult, please."

This is an excellent response to the "fixed it for you" tactic.

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studio10001

'WOW'.

'What others do is entirely their choice and I think that's the way it should be.'

That's right; and so every action is having an equal reaction. Everyone knows ( I think) that if you dis your waiter, he may spit in your food. Businesses work very, very hard at keeping morale up so that people feel comfortable ( notice I am not saying safe) coming to work. If your efforts undermine ours, employees perform badly, or don't show up. Businesses do not thank you ( general, not specific you) for this, and you should not be surprised to hear it. Now you won't be.


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Ann

Bleusblue, I think that flip flop was so ridiculously transparent. We were being treated like young children without a brain.

I think the same of the stupid (IMO) narrative of how a mask only helps one not spread the virus but does nothing to help one from getting the virus.

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Stan Areted

Doesn't matter.

The point is the "experts" have been ALL OVER THE MAP on this disease, who can get it, how you get it, how many will get sick, who is likely to get sick, what the symptoms are, what the symptoms aren't (remember jokes about why do people need toilet paper?), how it effects the body, what drugs help, what drugs might help, what drugs don't work on some, what drugs might work on others, OMG we need ventilators, OMG don't use a ventilator use oxygen, masks, no masks, stay home, wash your groceries it's everywhere, no it's not.

I don't trust anyone on this at all any longer.

ESPECIALLY The World Health Organization, the Center for Disease Control, and Neil Ferguson and other model makers. I don't trust the numbers, the testing numbers, the reported deaths, and I don't trust vaccines or claims of vaccines or directives to control our behavior.



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Nana H

Ann, you have never been in my doctors waiting room.....there is no way three people could be 6 feet away from each other.

It's odd how this subject has become the poster child for being critical of others choices...maybe we should change the subject to liberal arts degrees and see who is being critical and judging.

ETA I expect the choice argument might go south in a big hurry if the failure of people to wear masks caused businesses to have to close again. A speedy and successful economic recovery relies on two things, containment of the disease and the comfort level people have to frequent businesses again..

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Stan Areted

Fixed it for you.

"Please take the time to use your own words to fashion a response, not sully mine

and arrogantly change it, then say "fixed it for you."

You did NOTHING for me.

Use your own brain and your own words, it's not that difficult, please."

Ann:

This is an excellent response to the "fixed it for you" tactic.


It was, I deleted it not long ago because it's Sunday morning and decided to be charitable and saw it and it came across a bit harsh, but I meant every word.

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Stan Areted

Nana H:

It's odd how this subject has become the poster child for being critical of others choices...maybe we should change the subject to liberal arts degrees and see who is being critical and judging.


Here's the difference for you--people can make observations about the choices of others, they can ridicule them, they can disagree with them--but you don't see me telling anyone they are WRONG to "pursue" a degree in Women's Studies, Transgender Studies, or similar tracks.

I happen to believe that everyone has a right to make their own decisions.

I don't judge the character of the person that pursues those degrees based on what they "study."

The subjects of masks is different--people disparage the character of others and call them "selfish" and other terms for not wearing them. They call them names that diminish them as human beings.

The two are not any way comparable.

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Tilly Teabag

In America many people don’t social distance and/or are against wearing masks. So America has a skyrocketing death rate from covid19.

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Nana H

Of course you don't see it the same, no surprise there.

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Stan Areted

Look at the socioeconomic groups of the majority of deaths and COVID 19 positive cases and you'll know who to disparage for not social distancing and wearing masks.

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studio10001

'The two are not any way comparable.' Agreed, Stan. For the record, I don't care if people are wearing their masks per se - I care that these same people also don't social distance, and treat the people taking care of them like human garbage. I regard those who demand that the country reopen ( it is reopening, BTW) as the real petty little tyrants; complaining about the lack of service while undermining what few guidelines we have to promote it.

Yes, Stan, you can only take responsibility for your own behavior, but if you believe that you are only responsible TO your self as well, that puts you ( again - generic, not specific you) outside of society. If you choose to live within society, you have a duty of care to it. You can't have it both ways.

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Annie Deighnaugh

We concluded that household use of face masks is associated with low adherence and is ineffective for controlling seasonal respiratory disease. However, during a severe pandemic when use of face masks might be greater, pandemic transmission in households could be reduced.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

Both studies found that masks captured a wide range of proteins that are actually smaller than coronavirus particles, meaning, says Dr. Dweik, it’s reasonable to assume the masks are also capturing those larger coronavirus particles.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/heres-how-wearing-a-cloth-mask-helps-fight-the-spread-of-coronavirus/

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bleusblue2

Ann

"If you are requested to wear a mask and don't want to them leave the establishment but to verbally abuse ,or worse yet physically abuse, the person requesting it is deplorable behaviour."

Yup, and the other way around. If you go to a doctor's office and a person sits next to you in the waiting room without a mask, you have the option to move rather than criticize and judge!

~~~

In that situation my only option would be to leave -- doctors' waiting rooms are usually small. With asymptomatic carriers and no tests to speak of, can leaving the room be defined as a "choice"?

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Annie Deighnaugh


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Tilly Teabag

Employees rights trump clients’ rights because the greater the viral load the higher risk to them.

Plus a client can leave and the employee can’t during their shift.

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abzzybee(9/10 S. Florida)

No, that is not a choice in my opinion, it`s a bit like someone holding a gun to your head, albeit an invisible one and that is because if that person is an actively virus shedding asymptomatic carrier sitting next to you they are breathing out virus particles that are not being captured by their nonexistent mask and you are relegated to having only the protection your mask affords you.

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studio10001

'If you go to a doctor's office and a person sits next to you in the waiting room without a mask, you have the option to move rather than criticize and judge!"

Cheers to that; your nurse, the office staff, doctor and the guy who let you in may be ALL quietly judging you, mate.

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Nana H

I am curious if those who think that masks are a matter of choice think the same thing of physical distancing. Is that a matter of personal choice that shouldn't be judged either?

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Stan Areted

It's not a matter of "judging" and BTW, pointing out statistics of certain socioeconomic groups of people who make up the majority of COVID-19 positive cases due to NOT "social distancing" and/or wearing masks is NOT judgmental or critical--it's the FACTS.

People can draw their own conclusions about why that happens, but I didn't do that.

FACTS are not prejudiced. FACTS are FACTS.


I think everybody should stay at least 6 feet away from me, I prefer 18, so I don't go near people right now. So, yes, the 6 feet should garner saying something if someone doesn't stay 6 feet away--but for how long that holds, I'm not sure.

As to the masks, it's a feel good I have some control social manipulation.

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Nana H

" pointing out statistics of certain socioeconomic groups of people who
make up the majority of COVID-19 positive cases due to NOT "social
distancing" and/or wearing masks is NOT judgmental or critical--it's the
FACTS."

You did not provide statistics nor do you have any way of knowing whether the majority of cases contracted were due to people choosing to not distance or wear masks. Nothing factual about your declaration. just your personal judgement. However, if you do have facts and statistics please share.

ETA Odd, but not unexpected, that you would feel it OK to say something to someone who was not practicing physical distancing but not if they aren't wearing a mask. We all judge what behaviours we find acceptable and those we don't....all of us.

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Kitchenwitch111

I don't bear any responsibility but for myself.

That’s it right there.

Wearing a mask protects others more than yourself.

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Stan Areted

Parroting. Meaningless.


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Stan Areted

Nana H:

ETA Odd, but not unexpected, that you would feel it OK to say something to someone who was not practicing physical distancing but not if they aren't wearing a mask. We all judge what behaviours we find acceptable and those we don't....all of us.


"Odd, but not unexpected, that you would feel...."

HOW JUDGMENTAL LOL!

Especially since you judge how I FEEL when I said nothing about how I feel.

I said I THINK.

Try it, especially when attempting to judge me.

I don't have to bring up statistics, they're everywhere.

Try Baltimore, Chicago, New Orleans, Northwest New Mexico, New York City, see what commonalities you can find in areas with the much more concentrated COVID 19 positives and deaths.

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Nana H

"socioeconomic groups of people who make up the majority of COVID-19
positive cases due to NOT "social distancing" and/or wearing masks
is
NOT judgmental or critical--it's the FACTS.

There are NO facts to support such an allegation...none not one...prove me wrong.

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studio10001

I'd be interested to know what you are talking about as well.

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Stan Areted

deegw:

Don't hold your breath, we still haven't seen the covid party links from a month ago.


There is a word for what you're doing when you post that--a lie.

AGAIN.

I've posted the links and information more than once.

Look it up. It's there. Maps. Videos. Stastistics.


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Nana H

I dunno , I've seen plenty of pics of the Mardi Gras revelers in New Orleans which is believed to be the original source of Covid in LA. Also lots of pics of those Spring Break kids in FL....they definitely are of a certain socioeconomic strata.....the white and privileged.Most certainly not wearing masks or socially distancing.

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Stan Areted

You "dunno?"

That's obvious.

Try doing more than viewing "plenty of pics" of Mardis Gras and making unfounded accusations about an "original source."

Read the NYT article (paywall) about the primary source of COVID 19 of New Orleans and most every other city other than west coast being New York City. Read about how the particular markers of the virus in different areas can be found to, or not to be, responsible for outbreaks in other areas due to travel.

Read about why New Orleans' death rate is 7 times that of New York City's death rate, from Covid 19.

As to "white and privileged" that may well be--I did not mention any particular socioeconomic groups. So, apparently you have identified one! Great, thanks for the contribution.

Don't forget New Jersey large families that spend every Sunday together, too.






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Ann

"I am curious if those who think that masks are a matter of choice think the same thing of physical distancing. Is that a matter of personal choice that shouldn't be judged either? "

I do feel that way. I have been going to lots of establishments that are open. There are many, many mask wearing people but the social distancing (other than in the checkout lines where it's so clearly marked on the floor) seems to be dropping off substantially. If I'm selecting a produce item, it's not at all unusual (lately) to see another person come stand beside me and select their produce too, within one or two feet of me. I'm fine with it and do my best to move to the far side of that bin so both of us have a bit more space. I went to a garden center yesterday and because it's that time of year here, it was packed. Lots of people were near one another picking their annuals. Even though many areas are outside or outside and covered, because of the huge crowds, it seemed most people chose to wear a mask, as did I too when I noticed how very full the parking lot was.

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Ann

There are some major pot calling kettle posters here complaining about a lack of links and supporting evidence to claims made (or randomly tossed out)!!!! My goodness, the hypocricy!

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deegw

Ann

4 minutes ago

There are some major pot calling kettle posters here complaining about a lack of links and supporting evidence to claims made (or randomly tossed out)!!!! My goodness, the hypocricy!

------------


Ann, who are the hypocritical major pot calling kettle posters?

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heri_cles

If you do not wear a mask in public places you are really being inconsiderate and unwise. Given that you may be endangering others lives, why wouldn't others who abide by the recommendation be right to have something to say something to you ? What is wrong with people trying to make a political statement out of a pandemic ? How far do you have Trump shoved? I can see the cocky, defiant look on some of their faces.

I have been telling people in retail stores that a mask is meant to protect others so please be considerate and wear one. If I was a bit younger, that might be taken as a threat and I still risk retaliation, but someone has to stand up to deplorable, enabled ignorance.


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Ann

"How far do you have Trump shoved?"

What????

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deegw

bump

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Olychick

OMG, if he would just wear a mask we wouldn't have to look at that mug.

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studio10001

That has garnered 9.4 million views. # covidiotposterboy

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Somebody took a photo of Trump in the factory today wearing the mask. I believe you can see it on Twitter.

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Joaniepoanie

Just saw it. Imagine if he had worn a mask from the beginning and promoted wearing a mask, we might be in a very different place now—-lives saved, virus more contained, Trumpers thinking about others instead of their “freedoms.”

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terezosa / terriks

Just saw it. Imagine if he had worn a mask from the beginning and promoted wearing a mask, we might be in a very different place now—-lives saved, virus more contained, Trumpers thinking about others instead of their “freedoms.”

Yup, Trump has missed so many chances to be a "hero" and really help our country.

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Iris GW


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Kathy

Calling Dems petty tyrants while marching with guns and confederate flags is really a twist.

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mrskjun(9)

LOL, Michigan AG going after Ford because the prez didn't wear a mask the entire time he was in the plant while she was crickets over his meeting with black businessmen of whom only one was wearing a mask, just unmasks the lefts hypocrisy.

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Kathy

I heard Pence asked the men to remove their masks.

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studio10001

She isn't as simple minded as her critics: she told him what state law was, asked him to abide by it, and said that he would not be challenged legally for breaking said law. He gave Michigan and Ford the finger. There is nothing hypocritical here; there is simply no reason to repeat a fruitless exercise.


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kadefol

There are shops in the US that are denying entry to those who wear masks. I am not surprised, last time we went grocery shopping all the employees wore masks, but the majority of customers were mask-less and some of them were glaring at those of us who were masked.

Shops around the US make headlines for denying entry to those wearing masks as protesters argue against preventative measures in the name of freedom

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Testing.

Just wondering if this thread, like at least one other, is "locked in" down near the bottom of the screen also.


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Well, the above post did register -- on my screen, anyway.

Can anybody else read this? Let me know.

Kate

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Aha, this one bounced right up to the top of the list after I posted twice at the tail end.

Guess it isn't "locked." Good to know.

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HamiltonGardener

I can read it

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Thanks, HG.

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