Loop in Junction Box

4 years ago

When you run NM cable through a metal junction box, using the box only as a pass-through (pull box), is it acceptable practice to split the NM cable, pull out the ground, and loop it around the ground screw, all without cutting any wires?

Comments (5)

DavidR
4 years ago
Is the box meant for future expansion? I can't understand why you'd need a pull box for NM.
youbot
Original Author
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
There is a box there because 10' of EMT was run up the wall into the attic as cable protection to protect the NM that I already had on hand. I din't have to buy any THHN because of this. I only wanted to know if what I asked was permissible. I can't see how it wouldn't be, but you never know.
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He's right. If you have access from above (i.e., attic) you could put in a new rectangular box and patch the hole. Your only other option is to pull the wiring out to the box or boxes it runs to and patch. If the only wire is to the switch this may not be too bad (but you may be poking holes to remove staples--you're not supposed to leave the dead wire in the wall, it has to come completely out). If you have a switch loop or other lights on the same switch you may need the wires to continue the circuit to other fixtures. If you have to keep the cover, paint it the ceiling color. It will still be noticeable but less so.
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in addition to what Petey said, you need a separate circuit for your laundry room outlets as well. Do you have a sink in your laundry room? Are your outlets within 6 feet of said sink? I imagine you have a dryer in there as well? Is it 220? Do you know what size wire to pull to it? Size of breaker? Etc... based on reading your three posts on your issue. you're looking at pulling in around 5 circuits. 1 for the lights in your laundry room and bathroom, 1 for your bathroom outlets, 1 for your laundry, 2 for your dryer (unless it is gas) I highly recommend you read, and consulate a qualified electrician and save yourself the trouble of trying to fix things after the fact. By doing what you've stated you're not only breaking several NEC codes, but you'd be doing some pretty unsafe things.
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Thanks, This is going to be more difficult than I had hoped. The house was built in 1949 and I suspect that the second or third owner put in, or re-cabled, the circuit that I am describing. That was probably in the 1960s and he was an electrician. Was simple twisting of the grounds permissible at any time? Obviously, I'd like to improve the situation while installing the grounded receptacles, I don't, however, want to separate the metal boxes from the studs and install new ones. I have to check more carefully to be sure about the box attachment, but I don't think that they are a type that clip on to the cement board/plaster. Is there a clip that I can use to properly ground the old metal box? I recall mention of them. There may be room in the box for a wire nut, but these are small boxes. :-( The circuit powers some outlets and lights in adjacent rooms, but I've removed an outdoor outlet and two indoor outlets from it. (They are now part of a new circuit.) The two indoor sockets had a single, green ground wire and a two-conductor cable leading to a junction box in the crawlspace. The ground wires were twisted together there and corroded badly. At least the twisted grounds inside the house are clean-looking.
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First cut power to the ceiling box so you have no live wires. Then use a pliers to pull on each side of the box and figure out which side has the nail into a joist.. Use a reciprocating saw to cut right next to the outside of that side of the box and cut the nail off that is holding it (cut out just enough sheetrock for the blade to fit). Pull the box down and disconnect the wiring. Remove the wiring plugs on the side of the new box and insert the power wires into the box. Install the new box using the manufacturers instructions and tighten in place. It is adjustable so it can slide and be installed anywhere along the bracket, and you should be able to install it right next to the joist, or within about 1/2" of the original box installation. This may require slight cutting of sheetrock again. Use minimally expanding foam or putty to fill in the area around the box and seal it to the ceiling to prevent air infiltration from the attic. Wire up the new fan, which will have a base that is large enough cover the small areas you cut around the old box. Bruce
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Ron Natalie
4 years ago
Nothing says you can't "loop" the wires rather than cutting them and joining them together (either on the device or using other fasteners). However, note that this does NOT change the requirements for free length of conductors in the box NOR box fill calculations.
youbot thanked Ron Natalie
Bruce in Northern Virginia
4 years ago
It sounds like you might be using the EMT only as a chase for protection of exposed cable running up the wall. If you are only using EMT for physical protection, and the NM wiring comes out at each end, I don't think you even need a box connected to the EMT. However, you would want a bushing at each end for protection against damage from the sharp edge of the conduit.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your wiring scheme.

Bruce
youbot thanked Bruce in Northern Virginia
youbot
Original Author
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Thank you Ron and Bruce. Both of your comments were very helpful. Yes, I am only using EMT as a chase for protection of exposed cable running up a wall. My breaker box is located in a ridiculous position in the house. It was necessary to run EMT up the wall and then go horizontally for about 5 feet. I installed a box at the end location on the ceiling because it made the install much easier and broke the install into several parts rather than having to deal all at once with the wall run and 14 inches of blown-in insulation in the attic. I really appreciate your clear answers. It is sometimes hard to get a straight answer to a simple question as some people like to go off on a tangent; often just to irritate you. These are the same people who post negative comments about -- for instance -- YouTube videos -- when they never post any themselves. It is crazy to have to explain every aspect of the job in hopes of getting a simple answer to a simple question, but I don't mind doing it here because I really appreciate the clear answers of you two guys. I am always trying to learn something, and though my methods may vary from what some people would judge as ideal, I am still interested in doing it safely. Thanks again.

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Loop in Junction Box

Comments (5)

DavidR

youbot
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Bruce in Northern Virginia

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Loop in Junction Box

Comments (5)

DavidR

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Ron Natalie

Bruce in Northern Virginia

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