Thank you so much for the advice!

Fire him and hire someone who knows what he's doing. This is going to be leaking in a week.

Also, he’s hasn’t trimmed the window yet either.
The same trim on the walls will go around the window. His plan is to lay the trim tile on top of the tile already there. Is that a thing that’s done??? I’ve never heard of layering tile.

Laurie, you don't put on trim after it's been tiled. the trim is part of the tile work. Is this guy for real? He wants to 'mortar trim around the niche'??

these are diff ways to do a niche.

Bullnose tiles on the outer edge

Molding around the edge. (done during the tiling phase, not after!)

Pencil tile liners for the outside of the niche (used when no bull nosed tiles are avail, usually)

(btw, this is a beautiful tile job. look at the tiles all around the niche. perfect symmetry. look at the tiles in the corners. see any slivers? jagged cuts? nope. this is what a tiled shower is supposed to look like. Grouting yours will not make it look any better.

grouting or caulking won't help, and it's just going to be harder to rip out and fix.
again, you don't 'trim' things out after the tile has already been completed. It should be part of it. how was the window waterproofed? Was any of this done?

you see how the tile is the trim? with a sill?

Is this what you want? why?

should have been done w/tile and ceramic edging

I'm telling you right now, this is a low quality job. very low. if you pay the guy for this work, it's your money. You're crazy if you do. down the road when you have leaks and mold around the window and the niche area, you'll understand why we are so hard on you now.

Get it redone by an actual tile expert.

To be fair the job isn’t finished.

That doesn't matter when a project has gone beyond the point of no return. Like this tile job. Mistakes set in mortar where the only remedy is to tear out.

In addition to the incompetent tile work and the weird layout -- particularly that niche in the first photo -- you have another major problem that should have been corrected before work was even started: your walls were not plumbed, meaning that they are not strictly vertical. That is the reason for those tile slivers of differing sizes and skinny, triangular gaps in the corners. The walls should have been shimmed out before tiling. In addition, and this is fatal, it looks like no waterproofing membrane was put on the walls prior to tiling. These are basic mistakes that no competent tile contractor would make or allow. You need to stop this right now and start over. It will still look bad after grouting, and you will end up with leaks in the future that could do structural damage. I'm sorry to say it, but there is no other interpretation possible.

Pretty sure he didn’t skim anything and the slivers look awful, but he did red guard the walls around the tub.

Laurie, it sounds very much like you're trying to defend him. You have every single person commenting on here about what they think. You have gotten all the advice you're going to get, and not one of us said, 'it's a good job, let it go". All of us are telling you it's a poor job. The waterproofing aspect and especially the actual tile work. It's extremely low quality.

So now it's up to you. Ignore the advice you came here for, or heed the advice that all of us are saying. But please, stop with the, "but it's not finished, and he Redgard'ed". Yes the slivers look awful because It's a sucky job. You want to look at it every day? Then pay him and move on.

I’m not defending him.
I just want the facts straight.
I’ve talked to my husband tonight and we’ve decided to stop him now and get someone else to redo it. It looks terrible.
I appreciate all the advice. I’ve already made a couple of calls to other contractors to come out and take a look.

very good. I think you've made a wise decision.

make sure you show the new tile guy the pictures you showed us. almost certain they will have to rip that up and start over.

just make sure the area around the window is waterproofed like in the pic I showed you and make sure they do a dry layout before tiling, to see where cuts are going to be made.

for edging around the niche ( which should be properly placed so that the tile cuts aren't thin around it) use the bullnose tiles, or get something like metal edging or pencil liner.

for shelves, thing about doing a solid piece of quartz (rather than cut tiles) This shelf was a remnant quartz piece.

this one too.

BTW, both of these niches were done w/a niche pre-fab insert. no chance of leaking like the one he did. They come in diff pre-formed sizes. check them out

you could also use the quartz piece for the window sill, and up and around the sides. no grout means no chance of water leakage. Or, just use a larger subway tile like a 3x12. it can be cut to fit on the inside of the window

Laurie, I know it's hard to know what to do in these types of situations. I am sure whatever you decide to do it will be fine. Go with your gut and don't get too bogged down by all of the overly negative comments on here. People are very stressed right now and have too much time on their hands.

There is nnothing tiling flange on that tub. And the waterproofing at the window penetration is a joke. Those will both leak the first time its used.

before you give the installer the boot, ask him to fix all the defective areas and mark it with green tape, take a photo of all defective workmanship, let him try to fix his mistakes, technically you should always leave the door open for someone to fix his mistakes, leave Him alone until he presents a completed job before grout, if it’s not up to your satisfaction, then legally don’t pay, give him the option to redo the job at his expense, he will say probably no, ... at that point after you cover the tub, remove the tiles, there Are ways sometimes to remove the tiles without ruining the wall. But if you’re not lucky, use kerdi board and wet set so you have flat wall. And make sure that the tub is not too much out of level.

Usually the quality installers are more expensive

Amber it’s not hard to know what to do. The job is poor.

Yes there’s Redguard but it’s too thin a layer to do much good.

Everyone already has commented about the poor cuts and lack of waterproofing around the window.

Tomorrow i’ll try to remember to photograph my window in my shower

And you don’t need a regular contractor. You need a tile contractor who is well versed in TCNA standards

Beth h. your incredibly skilled 😍 wish I could have hired you!!!

https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

To be honest, this Is an example of you get what you pay for, also it kills the industry relationships with homeowner, I have a Facebook group called tile geeks, and I highly recommend anybody on that group, we all do high end quality work, If I was in the USA, I would hire an experienced installer from tile geeks and ask for 2 references

The next time also forget the niche they are usuallu the first place you have leaks , they get gross and whay people want to high light all their shampoo is a mystery to me.

After the corona virus goes away, I think every good installer will raise the rates for tile installation, A good installer has a good communication with the client, will give options about the niche, quartz sill or tile sill for example, rondec pvc white profile edges on the wall edge, kerdi or liquid waterproof or cement based waterproof membrane , kerdi board or drywall and kerdi, cement board with kerdi or with other waterproof membrane? A good installer will prepare the job nice and ready for tile, he will catch bows on the wall and if he is smart he will wet set the wall flat, a good installer starts straight and finishes straight, his cuts will look Clean, the Window would look nice with a quartz ledge, same as the niche, slope the water proof 1/8 of an inch away from window

That’s a niche that a local builder thought that building with 2x4 is better than kerd, I disagree with that, a pre fab niche or a niche made out of kerdi board is the best, the materials used was corian white sill, but personally I like quartz better, I want to build a niche with onyx some day!!

First I want to point out the tiles around your window. Why were the tiles circled in red cut like that? It should have been single tiles, not cut.

Here's my bathroom window. It's done correctly. Note also how the black tiles around the window are evenly spaced and designed. (And the wall isn't bowed. It's the wide angle on my phone camera.)

The tile job does not look very good. My comment is about everyone who says a shower need to be waterproofed. This is not building code I've been installing tile for 35 years use cement board the waterproof won't make any difference as long as you have a rubber pan. Waterproof companies want you to believe it's necessary your bathroom will last 25 to 35 years it feel properly regardless.

I've been installing tile for 35 years use cement board the waterproof won't make any difference

100% Hogwash.....youre fired!

Eric:

Ironically, apparently the waterproofing manufacturers agree with you as to the vaugeness of the building code.

Joseph Corlett, we'd welcome you to the professional tile industry, really. I believe that corian is your specialty but you obviously have had your hand in tile. The professional tile industry is trying to help educate the consumer so they have quality tile installation results and the industry regains the respect for quality craftsmanship. Hiring qualified labor makes a difference. Come on board. Work with us. Sal shares a free download that will soon be on the new NTCA website (link attached) for questions to ask when hiring a tile installer (as well as information for homeowners about leaky showers). Qualified labor is an issue for consumers and the vast majority of the problems displayed on these pages represent unqualified people doing the work. You would find that the National Tile Contractor's Assn. offers a wealth of resources to educate, train, and support tile craftspeople. Reach out if you're interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9yC94KkY40

re: waterproofing.

I just DIY redid an entire shower from the studs out and when we demod the existing tub/shower we found that the existing tile was just simply applied to wallboard (!!!!!). With a niche that was just cut tile applied to the same wallboard. I'll pause here for the gasps of horror from the audience, myself included. Absolutely no waterproofing whatsoever. GIven that this is the primary bathroom in the house and is used multiple times a day, I was shocked that there was zero water damage anywhere to be found, even at the tub flange, nice corners, etc. Based on other renovations that were done in this house prior to our purchasing it, i expected a real disaster with mold, water damage, etc.

All this to say that even though it's completely not to code/TCNA standards, it is possible somehow for a completely unwaterproofed shower to survive.

I'm very pleased we redid it but maybe i need to go out and buy a lottery ticket now, since i appear to be quite lucky.

Mint:

You've stated that I'm "misguided". Where and how specifically please?

Our last house was 70 years old with all original bathrooms and mass amounts of beautiful tile. I doubt there was any rubber membrane or even cement board. All the tile looked probably as good as the day it was installed, beautiful! Never had any problems with leaks, mold or tiles popping off. Wish I could find that same kind of quality craftsmanship, I think it’s the craftsmanship that makes the difference.

"Wish I could find that same kind of quality craftsmanship..."

Unfortunately too many of your fellow consumers prefer low prices. When they decide they'll pay for quality, a tile setter will again have a middle class lifestyle. You may even want your daughter to marry one.

Kate, 70 years ago they did tar paper over the studs, and a metal lath and mortar substrate- "Mud walls". (and pans) Old timers prefer this method because they can get the walls pretty damn near level/plumb. This in turn makes the tile job beautifully flush and lined up. And a mud wall will last forever! in 1920 homes, they're still going strong.

Using cement board you're at the mercy of the existing studs and wall shape.

A good mud guy can mud a shower almost as quickly as another guy can put up cement board and waterproof it. Its a matter of skill and knowhow.

I got really lucky w/my tile guys. the older guy had been doing tile for over 30 years. He preferred to mud. My tile job was impeccable.

The issue today is the lack of tradesmen to learn these fields. Middle and High Schools push all the kids into taking SAT's and testing in order to get into college. Something like 75% head to college? Skilled tradespeople are a dying breed. That's why you can't find them as often to do the type of work that was readily available 60 years ago (back then the stats were flipped)

Instead, you have joe blow tile guy who is cheap but has no expertise. This is what homeowners want because they don't want to spend the cash for someone who is an expert. the prices will differ greatly.

There's an old saying in the trade industry. Cheap Good Fast. You can only pick two.

@Kate, It was all mud work back then. Good times. BUT, those homes were built for it structurally. Use to be all I did.

​I liked Beth's comment about Joe Blow tile guy, cheap with no expertise.

In this type of work, those without expertise often try to confuse others by suggesting experience is the same as expertise. Expertise implies experience but there is a large set of experienced tile guys who don't have expertise. I would rather work with an inexperienced person who has the desire and capacity to develop expertise than deal with someone with 1 year of experience,  repeated 25 times.

I agree with the foolishness of our society trying to direct everyone to college. Some people just don't do classroom learning and why set someone up for failure? My partner has many skills but very limited academic experience while I have the educational background without the physical skills. We make a good team when I calculate quantities, do layouts, mark cuts and research materials and he mixes and spreads mortar, places tiles straight and even and cuts my marked tiles. Life gets ugly when he starts trying to layout tile patterns or I attempt to transfer mortar to the wall without dropping half and making random waves with the rest.  When each of us starts bitching about our idiot partner and contemplating how to dispose of a body, we may knock off earlier than usual!

Lyndee, you're so right. I think I read that 40% of college students drop out in their first year. Think of all the trades those kids could have been taught while in HS instead of wasting time taking ridiculous tests to compete w/other kids taking ridiculous tests all so they can get a BA in Political Science or French Lit. Yeah, those will pay the bills.

bring back auto shop, computer science, masory, carpentry, Home Ec, photography, and whatever else people do w/their hands. The current system creates such competition for something half aren't even geared to do.

And this is why we have joe blow contractor who has no clue and cheats people out of their money. Because he can. he's in such demand because his fellow people are too busy trying to stay afloat in college to get degrees they'll never use. ( of course there are legit degrees that people need. just not the warped percentage they currently have). Bring back trade schools.

"Bring back trade schools."

The marketplace doesn't like this idea or trade schools would be flourshing.

The trades suffer a lack of social status. As long as you think your little Suzy deserves a doctor or lawyer husband, and Suzy believes it too, all the money and trade schools in the world are superfluous.

You don't want middle class tradespersons. You want cheap labor. The kids aren't lazy or stupid and they know this.

joseph, the kids don't know that plumbers, electricians, finishing carpenters, etc, make more money than any of those jobs that they think they can get upon graduating, but will never get. those 6 figure jobs aren't that readily available. My plumber friend works for the city (benefits) but works weekends on his own, has so much work, he can't handle it all. He's making money hand over fist. He never went to college.

Little suzy doesn't know any better because her parents, teachers and schools are too busy filling their heads w/ "everyone needs to go to college and rack up student debt".

Certain cultures would cringe if their sons worked as a 'laborer'. Oh heck no. they are brainwashed to attend college from the time they learn to read. That's all they do is study for tests. Why is good, honest, trade work frowned upon? Why aren't those occupations brought up in middle and HS so that teens can aspire to take that route? Wouldn't that be a better option than 40% college dropouts?

Masonry used to be respectable work. now? yeah. Who's fault is that?

People want good work. Not necessarily cheap work. People will gladly pay to have good, safe work done on their homes as opposed to these shyster contractors who have no respect for their work. too many of those.

People don't know any better. That's the problem. People trust that when a contractor says he can redo the kitchen for X amount, they're going to get perfect work.

Men (and some women) in these trades used to have pride in their work. Now it's just get the money and get out. They never went to a tradeschool or apprenticed under a true master of their craft.

Blame the government funded public schools and teachers who push their agendas, and parents that don't want to say anything for fear of rocking the boat.

Beth, you are so spot on!!!

Tile is an art. This job is a finger painting. Get it redone, you’ll have leaks in a year.

Joseph, you live near me, there is explosive growth down here and without the extra labor from south america, prices would be even crazier than what they are now. Currently there arent enough laborers for demand in this area. I just had my home built, and there was quite a lot of non english speaking laborers keeping the job going. I had my cement tile roof done by a crew of 1 and there were a couple of days when he had a friend. Probably 100+ temp on a florida summer day. No complaints from him and always a smile and wave.There wasnt a line of teenage boys wanting to subject themselves to that, and Im sure my roofer made decent money. Lets face it, for the most part we have become a literally fat and complacent nation willing to let someone else do the hard work. I will agree tho, we have a potato in charge. The answer very well might be, like the farm workers, a visa system for laborers. But first, we would have to stop the bleeding.

Moderator, some of these posts are political in nature and do not focus on construction and design. I suggest those posts be removed.

Amen, Norwood Architects. This thread is a discussion of a particular tile job's problems. The soapbox for political opinions is the Kitchen Table forum. Let's keep them separated.

Norwood/kudzu, Are you talking about me? No one has mentioned politics or any party. I mentioned the government controlling public schools and lack of trade skills options. It absolutely explains why there is a shortage.

they've removed almost all trade training. HomeEc, and other trades like Auto or woodshop used to be required. I believe now it's an elective. Young men used to learn all sorts of trades while in school. Now? you've got to be kidding.

do you have young kids? do you know how many school days are dedicated to testing, practice testing, and studying for those tests? weeks and weeks. Do you know what gets put aside while they practice for those tests? everything else. kids graduating today are scoring lower than 40 years ago. a new study came out. 50% of HS graduates can't read at a standard level. 50%? That's horrendous. But hey, as long as they can score decent enough on those tests, who cares.

Those tests are for government funding (not college prep). The higher they score, the more funding and more prestige that school gets. They basically study what's on these state tests so they can get a good score. That's not how apitude testing is supposed to work by the way. So all of these public schools have great incentive to push kids w/these tests. Don't believe me? do some actual research

This is not political! I never mentioned who is to blame (just the overall entity) or any party. This is reality and explains why young people aren't going into any of the trade jobs and why joe blow can charge an arm and leg for shoddy work.

I don't think they were referring to your post, Beth

arch, I thought because I mentioned gov't controlled schooling they assumed I was being political.

​Yes to trades schools and at reasonable prices so grads don't end up with student loans hanging over their heads for the next few decades. Get rid of those predatory for profit career colleges. Require schools to hold the loans at low interest and base payments on percentage of income. If the school was the one taking the repayment risk for loans, they would be more concerned with making sure graduates had needed skills for decent paying jobs. My young adult daughter is saying that many jobs she sees listed are now looking for people with masters degrees for jobs close to entry level. Often those are the same level jobs new grads did 20 years ago and 2 year degree grads did 40 years ago. A high school diploma would have gotten you in the door 60 years ago. Now everyone wants paper certificates that don't prove anything other than an ability to jump through hoops or the financial resources to hire tutors and pay for practice time and and possibly a substitute jumper.

Perhaps it is due to my rural roots, but I don't care if my daughter marries a plumber, welder,  mechanic or some other trade. Others may not believe me but all I want for my daughter's spouse is someone stable, honest, hardworking and good at their job, no matter what the job is. I don't care if the spouse is male or female or whether English is their native language as long as they are a good person. The only stigma in this family would be against someone who won't pick up a tool and get their hands dirty.

Most of these posts do not answer the original question regarding a particular tile job. And yes some of them are political and judgement. I personally find that offensive. To answer the original question, I think the tile job is horrible and needs to be redone one way or another

Ruth, the answers have already been stated earlier in the post. Did you read from the top? It's actually over a few months old and got revived w/another comment.

But, if you find this so offensive, then move on. We already know it's a poorly done job. "Redone one way or another?" wow. that's really helpful. Thanks for your contribution.

Was it ”potato”? lol