Don’t take up 4 1/2” of space with a wall for a toilet closet. It’s counter aging in place.

You can start out by using the offset toilet flange Joseph recommended. Use an electric demo hammer to chip out the cement so the flange will fit flush into the floor. You might even be able to use a masonry chisel and big hammer, but the electric hammer is a lot easier.

If possible, also reframe the wall of the toilet closet and use 2"x2" or 2"x3" framing lumber. A 2"x3" wall will be plenty of space for electrical, but tight for any of the plumbing to fit. A 2"x2" framed wall may not even have space for a switch box.

30"x60" is the standard size of a bathtub/shower combo, so even 34"x54" is a reasonable size for a shower. YMMV.

Bruce

Thx everyone! Much appreciated! I will look into that offset flange and do a 2x3 wall. Nothing needs to go into that wall. The switches can go on the other wall further from the toilet, and the plumbing for shower is already on the wall not shared with the shower.

oh, @live_wire_oak , we have 5 kids and 3 of them are boys, so our tween daughter and teen daughter often use our bathroom rather than the kids‘ hall bath because they hate sharing with their 3 brothers. It’s hard to get privacy with 5 kids and all their friends always over here, even in 3300sf. So my husband insisted on a “water closet“. (He had his gall bladder removed, so he spends more time with a toilet than most.) TMI, I know. But a toilet room will be appreciated by him.

Here’s a pic of the toilet hole in the slab

just thought i show it in case it’s any different from what is used now (it the hole the made in 1974)

sorry it’s so icky. It’s covered in a glue of some sort.

PROFLO PFSB5434WH Single Curb Rectangular Shower Pan (54" X 34") - For Alcove Installation

I‘m worried 34” x 54” will seem long and narrow. Isn’t 36 inches wide the “standard“ for tiled showers? I’m a small person but my husband has wide shoulders. maybe i’m overthinking it? I have a tendency to do that

I wont lie, 36" is the "standard minimum" for an enclosed/glass shower. The shower police are not coming. For two inches I'd leave it alone. Why ? When you shower in a tub/shower combo? You stand in about 21 inches by 48" of space.That's the flat in an ordinary 30 by 60 bathtub. . Few folks die in there. You've got 54" inches in length? Fine. Great. Unless all are linebackers in the NFL, I'd not worry. Even then....few of us stand face on perfect to a stream of water.....for the duration of a shower, no matter the size. Use a few inches of those 54 , the water is just as hot. : )

Otherwise? I'd move the loo .....and get the toilet privacy down to 39 inches. Unless that? ditch the worry. Or post the plan for the ENTIRE bath. This is something you will not do again, I presume.

Thank you. It’s really something I’ve never paid attention to, but it sounds like most of you think 34 is fine, so I’m gonna just roll with 34 since there are no nfl linebackers here.

No, this is something I’m not going to do again. I intend on living and dying in this house;) Once this bathroom is done, all we have left is the inside of the garage to fix up. That’ll be a few years from now, though.

i can‘t post plans yet. I‘m still drawing them. I wanted to figure this shower width part out before finishing. Once I’m done I’ll post. Hopefully tomorrow. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

I’m ready to move on to finishes. That‘s the fun part!

You'd get a lot of help if you post the scaled drawing of the EXISTING bath with dimensions

..........just saying : )

I can’t yet. I started over from scratch today 🤦🏻‍♀️

i have another spatial decision that I’ve been hemming and hawing over, though, so i will try find you once it’s all drawn to see what you think about it. it’s another for i take from this to give to that situation

The pro's here are ABOUT, spatial. There are many very helpful and pretty darn skilled in the general pop. That's the point, That is why we ask you for the as. it. is, right, this .minute. drawing. with every entry, window, door way and all of the inches for all of those, and also the ceiling height.

The more inf you provide, the more help.......you shall receive.

Start from that "scratch", accurate info, versus what you may see up the road at finish.

" Use an electric demo hammer to chip out the cement so the flange will fit flush into the floor. You might even be able to use a masonry chisel and big hammer, but the electric hammer is a lot easier."

I'd use a grinder to make fracture lines. One misplaced blow from a chipping hammer and you've spent the $1,200.00 you were going to save when you crack the PVC pipe. Tying the old to the new in renovations sometimes requires a delicate touch. This is one of those cases. How lucky do you feel?

A to scale floor plan of the existing bathroom is what we are asking for . You might be surprised the ideas that can come. I will agree a toilet space is not good they make no sense inside a bathroom at all. So the idea of privacy is lost. I would kill anyone who used the toilet while I am in the bathroom . Its a bathroom they have toilets in a closet or not and when space is at a premium don’t waste it on a toilet closet.

"I would kill anyone who used the toilet while I am in the bathroom."

lol

@joseph i know. It’s my husband who wants the water closet. TMI, but he had his gall bladder removed and spends more time with a commode than the average person with a gall bladder, and we have 5 kids. Privacy is hard to come by in a house with 5 kids even with plenty of square feet. we really should have 3 full baths and one half rather than 2 fulls and one half, but it’s an older house that i fell in love with, so it is what is. our teen and tween daughters will often use our bathroom because they hate sharing with our 3 boys. still though, rarely is my husband needing the toilet while other people are in the bathroom.

But he rarely asks for anything design-wise, so on the rare occasion he does, i try to give the man want he wants. When we renovated the rest of the house i could have had the shutters and front door painted hot pink and he would have said whatever, as long he had a say in the wood floors and as long as we got a gas stove and a big stainless steel hood. He doesn’t even cook. He just likes the way they look. Lol. & I honestly wanted a glass top stove because they don’t make a kitchen as hot. But i agreed gas stoves look nice in kitchens so i got a gas stove and big stainless hood to go with it ;)

ok im Posting sketch now

this is the “big picture” and below is zoomed in to just the bathroom. I think the pic is the easiest to work with once you‘ve seen “the big picture”

note: the reason there’s a small closet then a large closet is because most of the master bedroom is addition. The small closet is the original and the bigger one was added on with the addition. we were rushing to move in and i didn’t think the closet part through and just said add it. We probably should have knocked down the wall separating the 2, but i actually kind of like the little one. I can keep that one cute and tidy while the big one stuffed to the gills and not as organized as it should be. The big one is kind of like out of sight out of mind sort of;)

i prefer looking at it rotated this way

i think this one is less blurred maybe.

my dilemmas and or questions i need help with:

1) I’m thinking i should omit the cased opening separating the space with the tub from the space with the shower and vanity. And then once i do that i should push the closet door over towards tub 8 inches so that the wall on the right side of tub is the same size as the wall on the left.

2) is 56” of walking space between the vanity countertop and wall with the water closet and shower enough? currently, hall is a actually 16 inches wider there. I do like the widening of the hall there, but i needed more square footage in bathroom so we will have that wall bumped 16 inches into the hall. I could go more, but I’d like to keep some width in the hall right there because it’s a pretty long hall and the widening there keeps it from feeling claustrophobic.

2) also, i want a handheld spray in the shower so when i spray grout cleaner to clean it, i can spray the walls down afterwards. But don’t walls with shower plumbing have to be 6 inches? i don’t want lose 2 more inches from right to left. so can I put it on the exterior wall since we are in South Louisiana? Probably not. i guess he’d have to make a false wall. I like the exposed pipe showers. Would that make a difference?

3) oh and do i need 2.5 inches on each side of the tub? i‘m not worried about cleaning. A swiffer will be able to go under and around due to the shape of the tub. This is it.

Shower valves are designed to be installed in either 2x4 or 2x6 walls, and most will have adjustable or removable flanges to make the adjustment. You only need a deeper space if you have larger waste pipes in the wall. We used a standard Kohler valve and had plenty of space in a 2x4 wall.

We used a Kohler shower rail similar to this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EOLKAC8/ref=psdc_6810215011_t1_B00CMDK3O6, which has a shower head at the top and a separate hand shower connection at the bottom. It can be installed with a standard height shower rough-in, and the shower head arcs up higher about 8" (plenty of height for most folks). The lower part of the rail is just screwed down, and the only water connection is at the top.

When you look at the price (quite high, in my opinion), remember that it includes the shower rail with valve, two shower heads, and the hose for the hand shower.

Bruce

@bruce

thx. Yes thats what I’m thinking. The price isn’t bad considering all you get.

since the shower is deep, from front to back, the showerhead would make the most sense on the back wall, but since it’s an exterior wall, the plumber thought we should have a ceiling rainhead. BUT, since you told me the rail one like you linked doesn‘t need a 6” wall, then maybe i should do something like the combo below and omit the ceiling rainhead. I need to look at the specs, but i think it reaches pretty far into the center so it would serve the same purpose and the rainhead and is save on plumbing costs. Yes?

the plumbers estimate was almost 11 grand for the whole bathroom, but that doesn’t include the faucets, toilet, sinks, or tub. it would be nice to omit some of the plumbing costs;)

(he didn’t break it down very well, though so i don’t know how much I’d save by omitting the ceiling rainhead.)

Also remember that your shower control does not have to be on the same wall as the shower head. You could install the shower control on the right side wall (in your last drawing) so that you could open up the shower door and reach in to turn on the water. Then you let the temperature stabilize and step into a warm shower. If you put the shower control on the exterior wall in the back you will have to be completely inside the shower to turn it on, and you will be standing under the initial blast of cold water in the pipes.

Bruce

If the wall you were talking about earlier has nothing in it, you can turn the 2x4s sideways and hae a wall that is only 1.5" (minus the drywall which would make it 2") deep. The 2x4s still give you the strength needed.

Turn the tub.........ugly art, forgive me. Just rotate, and cease the agony. Over 2 inches and 2 x 4's

Well look at you! I SHOULD have posted a plans a week ago.

THANKS!!!!

@JAN MOYER

what do you think about the walking space between the countertop and the wall with water closet and shower? Is 56 inches enough space to not feel crammed? should i go bigger? Or should i give some of that beck to the hall? (The wall isn‘t moved yet. I know i have to push the wall the vanity is on into the hall SOME. I just don’t know how much. I did the whole cardboard thing but it’s still not the same as being in the actual room with actual walls and countertops with 22” depth and mirrors aren’t walls so the walking space MAY actually FEEL bigger than it is.

the space and wall I’m talking about afr highlighted in yellow below. The light blue line is where the wall currently stands. How much can i take from the hall without it feeling claustrophobic in the hall?

I'm not understanding as your blue/yellow pic didn't post.

As to walk/passage spaces in a bath.............30/39i inches between a vanity and anything else including a wall is plenty. You aren't dancing together in there. Assisted living facilities get by with that 36 for a wheelchair. . Any hallway where all humans must pass? You don't need more than 42 inches. between walls.

Minimum allowances for all types of passage , are based on human body dimensions. Doorways on shoulder widths and body heights. Hence we have the oh so common 36 x 80 doorway. But a body will fit through 28 inches as well, A toilet in a "closet", is different than one placed next to a vanity and a tub with no enclosure and you can cheat 6 inches. Hallways are no different. Yes, proportions matter. A very looooong hallway certainly looks better when wider. A wide hall is dramatic at an entry with a view at the opposite end in a courtyard! But this is a bath in a house. A hallway to a private space. Think of a nice old home built in the 20's.......and the lowly 5' x 8' bath.- tub at the end, vanity and a toilet at the entry on one side. Nobody ever died in one, due to its size. : ) nor on the way to that bath in 36 inches of walking space. And even a wee bit less.

You don't need a mirror BEHIND a door, when you can simply and beautifully mirror both doors! That, via a simple single panel door, and inset mirror via any glass company. The entrance to the closets could come forward, not so close to the front edge of tub. You could use a single door to the closets, and mirror THAT!

Yours isn't a small bath by any standard. But this is why we ask for the drawing, the dimensions. Frankly, at this size? You need an on site pro for the whole darn thing. Someone to finesse, help with selection, etc. You're not saving time or money by not having that person. He/ she would have said turn the damn tub in a single heartbeat, rather than twist on a couple of inches. .....

How MANY hours have you got into this? You're at cardboard and cut outs? I rest my case : ) No FOOLING , at all, despite the date today.

PS..............Regarding "chandy: over tub. ........!!

The National Electric Code (NEC) from 2011 requires that any part of a light fixture, including crystals dangling from chandeliers, must be a minimum of 8 feet above the highest portion of a tub's walls. This no-chandelier zone extends out horizontally 3 feet around the tub rim.

Translated? No electrician with a license will RISK that license to hang one, unless you have the clearance. Trust me on that : )

Deleted my previous comment and am updating here that our long, narrow double shower is actually 37 1/2" wide by 80" long. It feels plenty spacious.

@JAN MOYER

we are hiring a professional contractor. I sent the plans to him yesterday. waiting on his estimate.

i have spent a lot of time on it. during my initial consultation with him he didn’t think to turn the tub. He did however say that a 34 inch wide shower was fine since it’s 54 deep.

i actually don’t want the chandelier direcyltky over the tub. I’m thinking id like it centered in the section of the “room” with the tub.

my husband wants to keep the tub parallel to the window and says 34 inches will be fine in the shower. so yes i got more gray hair over this for nothing. cest la vie!

we kept the wood louvered doors original to the house so thats why I’m putting the mirrors on the wall. i am toting with the idea of having them trimmed up on the walls likr this

the original 70s bathroom had giant unframed mirrors surrounding the tub like walls. I still have all those mirrors. i know this type Of trim work will be expensive. I‘d like to get an estimate on it though.

i just moved the closet door away from tub. That was still the original/existing location..

back to the hall. I’m not sure why my blue & yellow lines pic didn’t post. Trying again

one yellow line is the wall I’m talking about. The other yellow line is the distance/walking space I’m talking about. The blue line is where the wall exists now. I know 56” is enough in the bathroom and that 40 or more is enough in the hall. I have to move the wall no matter what though so i‘m trying to figure out the best place to move it to. The hall is 20 feet long. and is currently 40 inches wide then widens to 64” wide after you pass the kids bath. as it is on the plans, the hall is 48” inches after the kids bath, and the space between the vanity counter and the wall with shower and water closet is 56”. The contractor thought i should give the other 8” inches to the bathroom and make the hall 40 inches. Then he went and looked at the hall and said well it is a long hall so i can see why you like some extra width here.

Your contractor is NOT a designer. Nor are you. Nor is your Dear Hubby. All, including you are wrong about the tub. You are going to spend a lot of money to hold a DANCE in front of a shower, easily corrected to a better proportion and more comfort. He wants tub parallel to the window? Goody goody, he can get the dust and cooties from around it too A free standing tub needs ROOM to kook good, despite the images you see online squished between walls.

Everyone can do their own designing..........until they CAN'T, which is almost always after they spent more than needed, to get LESS than they might have gotten. That's truth.

Don't believe it? Hang around here for a few years.

Your plan? It could be a lot better : ) Even with a turn of the tub....even if just for looks

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@JAN MOYER i don’t think 56” for a master bathroom is that huge of a space between the vanity Counter and the wall with the shower, especially since the shower won’t be all glass. It will be tiled, so less of an “open” feel than the 3 glass wall showers. the bath you posted above has 8 feet between the counters and shower. That’s space to “dance“ in! a measly 56 inches is not.

if i don’t move the wall into the hall, there would only be 40 inches there. My kids‘ hall bath has 44 and it feels tight. Again, if it was the distance between the counter and the tub that would maybe be ok because there‘s open air above the tub. And It would maybe be ok if it was a an all glass shower— because again open space you can SEE.

But this will be a wall with a shower door on it and and a toilet door on it. its a depth perception issue because it’s a WALL that would be 40 inches away. not a fixture. So i have to move the wall either way. the question is how much should we move the wall.

Here’s my kids’ hall bath. There’s 44 inches between the counter and the wall behind it. That’s tight for a master bathroom. If I didn’t have the extra space in the hall then I’d have to make do, and if it wasn’t my forever home, then maybe spending the money moving the wall into the hall wouldn’t make sense. but it’s our forever home. it would be silly to not use SOME of that space in the hall.

Look, You can give yourself as much as you want more or little in the hallway. Despite churning out baths for clients that are tripe, quadruple the size of my own, or double the size of yours? It depends on what is available and makes sense within your home and for you.

Frankly? Even for those with the luxury of a view such as my clients above? One with a lake, one with a gorgeous garden, pool, etc extending back to a local country club? None spend any more time in their baths than I do in mine. Well under an hour daily.

Sensational looking ladies , both. ........one with a tv view from her tub? Has floated about three times in six years. The other? The tub never was tried since 2016. They are a huge far flung family who gathers in it for the holidays. One of the kids wanted a bath, it is the only tub. Sure! ...........nope! Somehow the water line was never hooked up in 2016. .........who KNEW?

Do what suits you and the amount of time you spend in there. Which is generally a lot less than you think, Be it humble or grand, most find there are just too many other things to do. Like hang around in the kitchen.: )

Be honest with yourself about how much you will actually use the tub. We have an old, old house. When we redid the very small upstairs bathroom 20 year ago I insisted I needed a nice deep, soaking tub rather than just the standard tub. And we got jetted too. This is just a regular size tub and not a fancy tub as shown in your photos. In reality I shower all of the time and perhaps use that tub every other month or so. I would never plan around the possible idea of sitting around relaxing in a tub. Not going to happen

Take a tub break and smile Too cute not to share. Really!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=MMBh-eo3tvE&feature=emb_logo

@julieste i need bathe. I only shower. But my kids bathe. Not me teen son but the others do, so they use the tub. It’s not a big tub. It’s only 59 inches. So i don’t think it’s really a luxury tub🤷🏻‍♀️. jets creep me out, so there’s no jets

@JAN MOYER so funny that your clients realized much later that the water wasn’t hooked up.

i‘m a practical person. When added on to the house the architect and contractor kept telling me i HAD to have a 16x16 master bedroom, and i was like we just sleep in there. no. 14x14 is PLENTY. They were SO disturbed by my decision. It pained them to execute it.

anyway, thx everyone. I think I’m going to roll with a 34” wide shower and 56 inches walking space or “dancing“ space as Jan likes to call it 😉. i‘m at peace with it all.....finally. & I appreciate everyone‘s input.

i‘m fickle in everything i do. I hem and haw and back and forth. I‘ve been known to spend hours choosing napkins for a baby shower for a friend and multiple days designing invitations for an engagement cocktail party for a family member. I kind of have a touch of OCD.

that‘s why i wanted to complete the plans and give myself to the rest of the week to make changes then tick tock the gate is locked. i have to cut myself off.

antway, thx again!

oh and the sound of music corona parody was cute and clever 😁