help, decide between solid/engineered hardwood floors

4 years ago

This is my first post in gardenweb but I have been a lurker for quite awhile! We are building a new home and have about 1700 square feet of wood. I was totally set on solid hardwood until meeting with Prosource yesterday. They are the company that my builder uses for flooring. I couldn't believe how hard they were pushing the engineered flooring on us. We live in the midwest and have extreme changes in humidity. Part of me wonders if there is a larger profit margin with the engineered flooring.

We are debating between a hickory wire brushed engineered wood made by Shaw. Its thickness is 1/2' and the width is 4 1/2." Our other option is an Asian Walnut solid hardwood with a semi-gloss that is 3 5/8" wide made by Bella Cera. Both are around the same price per square foot.

The wood will also be installed in our kitchen. If they are both nailed down will they have the same "feel" underfoot? I like wood floors that have a little give and have character over time. Any advice would be very helpful as I am agonizing over making the right decision!

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Comments (4)

PRO
Uptown Floors
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
"Part of me wonders if there is a larger profit margin with the engineered flooring."

Real good chance! Look at both products. They're imported from...hard to tell today due to the Chinese tariffs. A sizable amount of overseas manufacturing has shifted to Vietnam and other countries over the past year.

There are however other reasons as engineered is less problematic with moisture issues.

Then when you add in the builder factor, they want the lowest price possible.

Ken Fisher

USA made 3/4 inch engineered
SJ McCarthy
4 years ago
Here is the BIGGEST sign that engineered hardwoods are *recommended (but not required):

"We live in the midwest and have extreme changes in humidity."

That's your red flag RIGHT THERE. Now that's not to say solid hardwoods are NOT allowed. They are. But an engineered product has a better CHANCE of dealing with the climate than a solid hardwood.

Now on to the Pink Elephant in the room: humidity control via your heating/cooling system (aka HVAC system). Did you pay to UPGRADE your HVAC system to ALLOW hardwood in your home?

Do you have BOTH A/C AS WELL AS a humidifier/dehumidifier attached to that HVAC system? I know the midwest can have HIGH summer time humidity (especially during storm/tornado season) and LOW humidity in the winters (to the point that fuzzy socks cause shocks when you touch the door nobs in your house).

The HUMIDITY control is THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PART of your build. No I am not kidding. Make sure you look at the specifications of your unit (you bought it...you should know what it is and how it functions). Ask the questions of the HVAC COMPANY that installed it.

Now onto hardwoods. If you have the RIGHT HVAC system you can have any wood you want. Solid or engineered it won't matter. Now let's look at the quality of the products you are looking at.

Shaw 1/2" hickory = thin. The WEAR LAYER is what you are looking at. A nicely made product should have 3mm wear layer or thicker. A 1/2" engineered plank is considered rather thin but can be acceptable SO LONG AS the wear layer is decent.

Next is the Asian Walnut. This is a cute way of saying Acacia. Now Acacia has two concepts. One is the Acacia TREE and the other is an Acacia bush (aka 'short leaf'). Sigh. The cheaper versions will be the bush. That means SHORT PLANKS. Like 11" - 48" (less than 1 foot long up to a MAXIMUM of 4 feet). Wow. That's short.

Bella Cera website is NOTORIOUS for being difficult to find a specific species. You would have to send a link of the actual product you are looking at.

My next question is what is the price range/budget you have for hardwood? You might want to work with a less exotic product if you want a higher quality wood floor. I would hate for you to pay all that money only to find out you picked one of the lowest level hardwoods on the market.

But first things first: check your HVAC system and it's ability to keep the house a happy healthy humidity level specifically designed for keeping hardwoods happy.
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Wow...that's a huge question. I know it sounds simple, but it is quite complex. So complex there are entire books on the subject (both professional and lay-man). So....solid hardwood is just that. It is solid. It is the same wood cut from the same tree, from the same plank at the mill. Traditionally it is 3/4" thick. Widths vary but the classic is around 3" wide plank. A 3/4" solid hardwood can be refinish 3-4 times with a total lifespan of 60-100 years. These are either factory finished or site finished. The industry has realized that some people are too afraid of large purchases so the solid hardwood industry has come up with the idea to make their planks THINNER and thereby making them cheaper. I've seen 1/2" or even 3/8" solid hardwood. They can be refinished once...maybe twice and have a lifespan of 20 - 40 years. These thinner solid hardwoods are often factory finished (cheap, thin and fast). And that's the easy part. Engineered hardwood...where to start. First off the TOP layer is the ONLY LAYER that contains the pricey hardwood that you are paying for. Everything else is like "plywood". The body of the plank is made up of cross-hatched layers of wood (not always hardwood) that are glued together. The top layer will range from 2mm - 6mm. The ability to refinish will depend on the thickness of the top layer (known as the wear layer). You need 3mm of wood to complete a full sand and refinish - just once. So the 2mm wear layer is a "one and done" type of floor. It has a life span of roughly 20 years (though many people rip them out after 15 because they look beaten up). The 6mm wear layer in a 3/4" engineered plank that is site finished is the Holy Grail of the engineered hardwood world. They are the most expensive, the most beautiful and offer the longest life cycle of all engineered hardwoods. They are so expensive that they are MORE expensive than solid hardwood floors. Whew. There is so much more but that's the difference in a nutshell. Shaw has had some complaints. The biggest issues with wood will be humidity and indoor climate control. Ask your builder to check the heating/cooling system. Ask them detailed questions about the unit's capability to handle climate control that is REQUIRED for a hardwood floor - regardless of the presentation.
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I too cannot see the savings of remove+replace. A sand/refinish averages $5/sf. It is minimally disruptive (ie. it does NOT involve demolition) and it will cure in 10 days (assuming you are using a high-end water based finish). Now an engineered hardwood is SUPPOSED to be more expensive than solid. Yah. I said it. Engineered (same cut, width, thickness, installation method) should be more expensive than solid. Hmmmmmm. My spidy senses are tingling. Now on to the cost of hardwood upstairs. Carpet removal/disposal = $1.50 - $2/sf (depends on where you live). Repair and prepare the wooden subfloors (usually 'bad' underneath carpet...carpet hides the WORST subfloors) $2-$4/sf. Yep. Just ASSUME you will be spending $3/sf for the subfloor prep upstairs. Now for the cost of solid hardwood (regular 3" width) = $5/sf. Installation + finishing = $3-$4/sf. Right. A regular solid hardwood (nothing special) with install = $8 - $10/sf. Now compare that to a 'sand and refinish' of $5/sf. Wow. It is CHEAPER to do the sand and refinish. Hmmmm. Now imagine the COST of demolition for the HARDWOOD....yep. You can add MORE to that cost. And again the subfloors have to be looked at. More costs. Now imagine the cost of a MORE EXPENSIVE engineered hardwood....$8 - $12/sf for material only. Installation is extra ($3-$4/sf for factory finished hardwood). I tell ya. The $5/sf sand/refinish is looking REALLY GOOD right now. Ignore the width of the planks. They are classic and are probably appropriate for the age of the home. It is your money and your home. If you believe an engineered hardwood is CHEAPER than $5/sf sand and refinish (including install and subfloor preparation) then you are welcome to find out the reality of the situation. We are going to tell you the 'cheap' wide plank engineered hardwood is not going to give you the 'life expectancy' that a 'regular' 3" wide solid hardwood ($5/sf material). It just won't.
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luis kevin
Original Author
4 years ago
Thank you all
James Cronk
2 years ago
SJ McCarthy is correct. Engineered hardwoods in general do much better in colder climates (Mid-West) than solid hardwoods due to how dry the air can get in the winter if the humidity is not controlled. It sounds to me that they were just looking out for you.

help, decide between solid/engineered hardwood floors

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Uptown Floors

SJ McCarthy

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help, decide between solid/engineered hardwood floors

Comments (4)

Uptown Floors

SJ McCarthy

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luis kevinOriginal Author

James Cronk

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

luis kevin
Original Author