Reality Sets In

sjerin

This is terrifying to read. I would copy and paste the whole thing but somehow I don't think that's allowed. And the wanna-be king wants to fill the churches on Easter?


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/magazine/coronavirus-family.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#commentsContainer


My husband, a tall, robust 56-year-old who regularly goes — who regularly went — on five-hour bike rides from our Brooklyn neighborhood to Jamaica Bay in Queens and back, has been lying on his back, staring at the ceiling, or curled on his side, wearing the same pajama bottoms for days because it is too hard to change out of them, too hard to stay that long on his feet, too cold outside the sheets and blankets he huddles beneath. It has been 12 days since T woke up in the middle of the night on March 12 with chills. The next day, just as reports were growing more urgent about the coronavirus spreading in the United States, he thought he felt better, but then the chills came back, along with aches and a fever of 100.4.

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Tilly Teabag

Correct, it’s breaking the intellectual property laws to paste the whole thing.

Do you know that cases with mostly diahorrea , are dying more often?


There is no substitute for staying home. US has good deliveries.

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

A harrowing and yet beautiful account of the reality of this disease, and how it affects literally every action of not only the victim but those caring for him. It is gut-wrenching and very frightening.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Heaven help us. And here there are people going on and on about this just being the flu.

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lurker111

Everyone needs a hot tub. Deep enough to submerge your whole body. Soak at 104 degrees for as long as you can. It will create a false fever and help fight the virus. It's also an instant cure for the chills, and helps with cramping.

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Tilly Teabag

Ya know, lurker, I wondered about the heat on the beaches with the young people.

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HU-885118952

The article is behind a paywall. Can you share the highlights? It seems to detail the painful details of how this virus can bring the body to its knees.

I think it mentions a pulse ox. Definitely have a pulse ox on hand, along with a good thermometer and peak flow meter if you have a lung condition (or not).

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Nana H

The medical professionals have debunked the hot tub theory. Never the less, it's a great way to de-stress, especially with a glass of red wine.........and yes I know : )

ETA Mind you we don't put it up to 104

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lurker111

The medical professionals have debunked the hot tub theory.

Nonsense.

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lurker111

Viruses cause colds and flus, so antibodies are ineffective. ... Heat puts the body into an artificial fever state, otherwise known as hyperthermia, so this “false fever” stimulates the immune system resulting in an increased production of disease fighting white blood cells and antibodies.

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lurker111

Yes, I would like a link showing it was debunked. Thanks.

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terezosa / terriks

Who wouldn't trust Lurker's medical advice, after all his gastroenterologist looks just like Dr Fauci!

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ohiomom

deegw the link/source is a blog for a company that sells hot tubs


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lurker111

I hope you can do better than that. No? That figures. :^)

deegw the link/source is a blog for a company that sells hot tubs

It's a well known fact.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Viruses cause colds and flus, so antibodies are ineffective...

If this were true then no one would survive a cold or flu. If this were true then vaccines would be useless. The reason why we do survive is because *antibodies are effective*.

I try to keep my ignore function going for persistent nonsense, but this is such misinformation with serious consequences, I had to point it out.

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foodonastump

Taking a hot bath does not prevent the new coronavirus disease

Taking a hot bath will not prevent you from catching COVID-19. Your normal body temperature remains around 36.5°C to 37°C, regardless of the temperature of your bath or shower. Actually, taking a hot bath with extremely hot water can be harmful, as it can burn you. The best way to protect yourself against COVID-19 is by frequently cleaning your hands. By doing this you eliminate viruses that may be on your hands and avoid infection that could occur by then touching your eyes, mouth, and nose.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

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lurker111

I'm sure they meant antibiotics. And no one claimed that it would prevent the coronavirus. You are posting misinformation that could prevent people from getting well faster.

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Rory

I read that if you sit in your hot tub, watch Trump give a briefing on the TV you hooked up in your bathroom, and blow hot air up your nose with your blow dryer you will surely be cured.

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foodonastump

Prove them right, you’re the one offering medical advice.

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foodonastump

Once a virus is in your body, it is down to your immune system to kill it off,’ explains Babylon Health Dr Claudia Pastides.

‘Hot baths and hot drinks won’t be able to reach or kill the virus because it lies within cells inside your body. Your body regulates its temperature very carefully and won’t allow it to raise much, despite hot drinks and baths.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/20/cant-cure-coronavirus-hot-bath-12431043/

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dandyfopp

Literally LOL Rory :-)

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lurker111

It's already a proven fact. Do your own research, and be honest to yourself. Don't attempt to twist the words to fit your needs. It isn't about heat, it's about what the heat activates.

"so this “false fever” stimulates the immune system resulting in an increased production of disease fighting white blood cells and antibodies."

You have to be able to understand what you're reading.

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leona_2008

Rory! Shhh. Don't let trump catch wind of that one. It'll be on today's presser and well, you know the rest.

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Annie Deighnaugh

lurker, take responsibility for what you post. You posted it from wherever you pulled it out of without attribution, and now you are deciding that the mysterious "they" meant something different from what they said.

You are responsible for the words you put down here.

Instead of quoting sources without attribution and telling others to provide links to what you claim is "well known medical facts" why don't *you* take responsibility and post the evidence to support your point of view.

Be a mensch.

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foodonastump

Link to a medical professional not a hot tub seller. If it’s a “well known fact” that should be easy.

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lurker111

Your normal body temperature remains around 36.5°C to 37°C, regardless of the temperature of your bath or shower.

Wow! You guys just debunked hypothermia and hyperthermia. Good job. I wonder if anyone is stupid enough to believe it?

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lurker111

Anyway, it's great advice. Ignore the trolls.

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foodonastump

Lurker I’ll acknowledge your last point but I’m still searching around the web and having no luck finding the “well known fact” from anywhere but spa companies. The only thing I’m finding is medical professionals saying it doesn’t work. So please link to one medical professional.

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lurker111

Try searching for fever so you can understand the purpose.

https://www.livescience.com/32134-what-causes-a-fever.html

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foodonastump

I know what a fever is and what it does. And I follow your reasoning. But what I’m asking for is a medical professional stating that an artificially induced fever from a hot tub can successfully fight a viral infection. Preferably with reference to Covid-19.

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lurker111

So you agree, and are just being difficult. I understand.

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queenmargo

LOL

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foodonastump

Typical MO. Either you can quote a scientific/medical authority or you can’t.

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lurker111

I can. I just don't feel like it right now. :^) I also don't feel a need to prove anything that has been known for decades.

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Nana H

FOAS, look at this way .......your morning diversion over coffee

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Toby

Have you contacted the hospital and offered your hot tub to coronavirus patients, lurker?

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queenmargo

Nana H

FOAS, look at this way .......your morning diversion over coffee

Nana, much the same for me with you ;)

We are all in this together;) #bebest

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lurker111

Have you contacted your hospital and offered your hot tub to coronavirus patients, lurker?

lol No, I offered yours. :^)

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ubro(2a)

Viruses cause colds and flus, so antibodies are ineffective.

Anyway, it's great advice. Ignore the trolls.

Antibiotics are ineffective in a viral infection, antibodies are what our bodies produce to fight those viruses. I was a lab technologist and worked in the microbiology segment for a short time, does that make me an expert, not even close. I have now since forgotten most of what I knew with confidence and so much has changed.


Humoral Immunity: Virus and/or virus-infected cells can stimulate B lymphocytes to produce antibody (specific for viral antigens) Antibody neutralization is most effective when virus is present in large fluid spaces (e.g., serum) or on moist surfaces (e.g., the gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts). IgG, IgM, and IgA have all been shown to exert antiviral activity. Antibody can neutralize virus by: 1) blocking virus-host cell interactions or 2) recognizing viral antigens on virus-infected cells which can lead to antibody-dependent cytotoxic cells (ADCC) or complement-mediated lysis. IgG antibodies are responsible for most antiviral activity in serum, while IgA is the most important antibody when viruses infect mucosal surfaces

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8423/

The bolding above is mine.

Heat puts the body into an artificial fever state, otherwise known as hyperthermia, so this “false fever” stimulates the immune system resulting in an increased production of disease fighting white blood cells and antibodies.

As for this portion, your body is not in a false fever it is just hot.

ETA I removed a comment I thought was over the line.

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Kathy

I believe a hot tub has to be 106 or higher to raise body temperature and it is illegal to manufacture or sell such tubs. In Japan they have some that go as high as 115 but not in the US.

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lurker111

Viruses cause colds and flus, so antibodies are ineffective. ... so this “false fever” stimulates the immune system resulting in an increased production of disease fighting white blood cells and antibodies.

I'm smart enough to see the discrepancies and have known this this long before that article was written. I've known this all of my life, because my grandfather was a doctor. They meant to say that antibiotics are ineffective. Otherwise, the last sentence would contradict the first. My superior knowledge allowed me to catch this right away, :^)

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lurker111

In Japan they have some that go as high as 115 but not in the US.

Not on my hot tub. There is a law for water heaters and contractors, but the owner can turn it up as high as the thermostat will allow. Liability.


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ubro(2a)

lurker, Your advice is skating close to a line where it can hurt others. High hot tub temperatures can be fatal, telling people that it kills this virus is irresponsible.

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lurker111

Nonsense. My advise was 104.

Also, I never said that soaking in a hot tub will kill the virus. I said it will help fight the virus, and gave a medical explanation of why it would help.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I've known this all of my life, because my grandfather was a doctor.

So you've absorbed this "information" by osmosis? Instinct? Genetically?

And your *grandfather*??? Was he performing surgery without anesthesia? Or maybe just an ether drip? Was he bleeding patients who were hemorrhaging? Was he adjusting humors? Did he give advice like coffee stunts your growth, cigarettes are soothing to your throat and don't go outside with wet hair or you'll catch a cold?

I'm not dissing your grandfather who may have been an wonderful person and excellent physician in his day.

I am however suggesting that:

  • just because you had someone involved in medicine in your family doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about it.
  • medicine has made some significant advances since then including debunking many of the old wives tales that were "common knowledge".
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Toby

If this was a known therapy, wouldn't it make sense that hospitals around the world would be providing hot tubs to virus patients? Maybe Cuomo should beg Trump for hot tubs instead of ventilators.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

just because you had someone involved in medicine in your family doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about it.

That sounds a LOT like trump talk, bragging about relatives who were smarter than him but thinks he's just as smart or smarter. More likely trump was dropped on his head when a baby and he stopped growing upstairs, still the baby.

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Kathy

Lurker, you might cause yourself to have a stroke if you actually turn yours up too high. Beware!

https://rhtubs.com/resources/why-hot-tub-temperatures-max-out-at-104-degrees/

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Deaths in New York are nearly doubling EVERY DAY.


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adoptedbyhounds

"And the wanna-be king wants to fill the churches on Easter?"

Nope. President Trump's "aspirational goal" is what he would like to see. It's not a "plan" nor has any such "order" been issued.


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Nana H

I love the sudden addition of "aspirational" ......not by you ABH

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Kathy

I wonder why the greatest scientists in the world haven’t discovered those simple fixes for CV yet?

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Zeus

Kathy

I wonder why the greatest scientists in the world haven’t discovered those simple fixes for CV yet

==========

i think those were the last words of the poor guy who ate fish tank cleaner after listening to trump. or will be after someone depends on a black party light in a closet or who is ill and jumps into a too hot bath...

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maifleur03

While high temperature hot tubs may lead to stroke the reason that the warnings not to stay in a hot tub and the reason most will not go above a certain temperature is because people were not able to get out of the tubs. It was said at the time that the blood would pool in the lower extremities and when people stood up they fainted with sad results. Lurker must have an older tub, one that someone has adapted to be able to go higher than 104, or with an adapter that was manufactured for a larger tub.

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lurker111

I have a digital Rheem propane pool-hot tub heater that will go to 115. The house is about 30 years old, but I've only been here for 7. I don't know how old the heater is. I would never suggest to go over 104, and would hope that most people who have a hot tub would know the basic safety rules.

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Annie Deighnaugh

That sounds a LOT like trump talk, bragging about relatives who were smarter than him but thinks he's just as smart or smarter.

A lot of parallels with trump who doesn't listen to science or the experts but relies on instinct or "common sense". When questioned, rather than defend his statements with facts and evidence he just doubles down on the incorrect statement, repeating it even louder as if repetition makes it more true. And never admitting an error, just attack others and accuse them of doing what he just did.

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ubro(2a)

They meant to say that antibiotics are ineffective.

Who is 'they'?

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

Thanks to the obsolete Electoral College Art of the Deal Trump was able to get into office simply by playing to the percentile of the population that was likely to buy what he was selling.

Some of them are still buying it.

There is enough of them that of course a component posts here. And thereby demonstrates the same approach to discourse and factuality that their hero Trump does.

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adoptedbyhounds

"I love the sudden addition of "aspirational" ......not by you ABH"

As I noted on another thread, that's the term Dr. Fauci used when discussing President Trump's "back to work" comments. I love it, too!

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Nana H

Yes I know he did...smart man helping out a not so smart man.

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Kathy

Fauci is walking a fine line.

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chisue

Alas, Pogo is proven correct again.

We have met the enemy, and it is us.

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mariannese

This hot bath theory is very funny from a Swedish point of view. Sauna baths are very common over here, private and public, so if they were effective agains covid-19 I am sure our doctors would have recommended them long ago. We have a sauna in the basement and my husband takes a 20-minute bath every Wednesday and Sunday night. I don't any longer as 157F (70C) is too hot for me and I only go in to quick dry my hair after the shower.

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ubro(2a)

As I noted on another thread, that's the term Dr. Fauci used when discussing President Trump's "back to work" comments. I love it, too!

IMO those officials who, during a crisis such as this, continually fawn over Trump and deflect to him with flattering comments degrade themselves. No one admires a sycophant.

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Kitchenwitch111

Lurker I heard that gargling boiling water with lemon can cure the virus. I know this because my aunt's second husband was a doctor but actually, it's common knowledge if you want to look it up when you feel like it.

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lurker111

Doesn't sound like anything I would want to try. Thanks anyway.

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lurker111

A hot tub isn't dangerous unless someone is the type to lick toilets and eat tide pods.

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Rory

" A hot tub isn't dangerous unless someone is the type to lick toilets and eat tide pods. "

True, but you insinuated that a hot tub is curative. That is dangerous.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I love hot water. I love saunas even more. Being exposed to high heat makes me feel better and more relaxed. It alleviates my pain and makes me rest better. That’s good for my health.

But it isn’t a treatment or cure for any specific disease.

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lurker111

Curative? No, that's your misunderstanding. I was very clear. :^)

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lurker111

But it isn’t a treatment or cure for any specific disease.

Hot tubs are therapy for many things.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

lurker111

13 hours ago

Everyone needs a hot tub. Deep enough to submerge your whole body. Soak at 104 degrees for as long as you can. It will create a false fever and help fight the virus. It's also an instant cure for the chills, and helps with cramping.

lurker111

3 hours ago

Curative? No, that's your misunderstanding. I was very clear. :^)

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how2girl

Instant cure?...wondering how the “hot tub method” magically boosts your immune system to “help” fight the virus - oh, & the “instant cure” for chills. Magical stuff, or hokus pokus (one & the same).

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sjerin

I wish I could find out how this guy is doing and whether he's on the mend or not.

I'm sorry this post devolved into purporting a ridiculous idea to help cure Covid19, though at least the thread points out how bravado that is essentially a big ol' lie can be counteracted. That goes for the rest of the untruths, as well.

Lurker, did you ever actually read the article?

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lurker111

Yes I did. I offered friendly advice and some of you couldn't stand it. My advice still stands. Fever helps fight viruses, false fever or real fever. It works great for me.

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cattyles

Thank you.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

So now all everyone has to do is buy and install a hot tub.

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