20,000 ventilators in Government warehouses

Joaniepoanie

Why won’t Trump release them? To NYC that needs them the most right now? My guess——NYC did not vote for Trump. NYC never liked Trump or accepted him. Yes, Trump is that vengeful.

He can marshal the military for a ridiculous, egotistical parade, but he won’t marshal them to help with this crisis. It’s time for others to step in and send the ventilators whether he likes it or not. This is life and death and Trump’s not sending them is unconscionable to put it mildly. Shame!

SaveComment110Like8
Comments (110)
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Vice President Mike Pence disclosed Wednesday that the stockpile has more than 10,000 ventilators, mechanical devices that have proved critical in keeping alive those with acute respiratory infections. Assuming that the cache fall short of demand, federal officials will face difficult decisions on how to parcel out such critical supplies, experts said.

“We are going to walk really close to the line on making tough calls,” said Greg Burel, who oversaw the stockpile until retiring in December. “The stockpile was meant to provide some breathing space for the private sector to get on its feet. There was never an anticipation that the stockpile would hold so many ventilators we could ventilate every individual who needed it in a pandemic.”

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp


7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
katrina_ellen

Thanks Obama

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Who’s taking notes on what to do next time?

Because there will be a next time, and it is easier (and cheaper) to jot this stuff down in real time than to try to do an analysis later.

For example: “Create a program that assists states in creating emergency stockpiles” would go in my notes today.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
soupgirl53

Hello. This 2020. Obama left office in January 2012. Trump has been the President for over 3 years. He owns the response of his administration to the Covid-19 crisis. Trying to shift blame to Obama or anyone or anything is not going to work.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
soupgirl53

Correction of typo. Obama left office in January of 2016. Sorry about that.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
katrina_ellen

soupgirl-oh yes it works, because Obama should have stockpiled. Shame on him.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chisue

I fully expect my state of Illinois to be last on the Trump list because Gov. Pritzker has called Trump out as incompetent. Well, that and because we are a Blue state... Oh, I don't know. Trump hates everybody, especially the New Yorkers who know him best.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

katrina_ellen this thread is about a stockpile that exists.

Who do you think created it?

Hint: it wasn’t Trump.

But if the ventilators are disintegrated beyond use that is Trump’s fault, because for the last three years his administration has been responsible for keeping them in good repair.

11 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
katrina_ellen

Obama should have took the necessary steps to store them properly.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Joaniepoanie

The more the Trumpers defend Trump and blame Obama or others, the less credibility they have....if they ever had any. The bungled handling of this crisis lays at Trump’s feet. And thanks Trumpers for voting in the person who thoroughly bungled this.

11 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“Obama should have took the necessary steps to store them properly.”

The Obama administration did.

The Trump administration has had charge of them for three years. Three years is a long time. The stores should have been checked at least yearly, maybe more.

Getting rid of institutional knowledge merely for spite nearly always comes back to bite a person. Trump is finding that out, assuming he has the capacity to learn.

11 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

How about you go back further - in your wayback machinery?

Is this ODS?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dirtygert(5-NY)

Are the stockpiled ventilators defective? (as per katrina_ellen's post that they weren't stored properly.)

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Joaniepoanie

Only six of of one model of 36 ventilators in storage tested (3 different models) had a problem. According to another site, ventilators are tested and maintained once a year.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30387852

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dirtygert(5-NY)

Thanks for the info, Joaniepoanie. It seemed a little weird that our Governor would be shouting "Release the ventilators!" if they were defective.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
katrina_ellen

No one here knows what happened to those ventilators - manufacturing defect? Don't pretend you know so you can blame Trump.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dirtygert(5-NY)

Katrina_ellen, do you have a link to an article about the problem with the ventilators?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
katrina_ellen

And vice versa

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheesh(5b)

Hard to believe, isn't it.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheesh(5b)

Keep digging!

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dirtygert(5-NY)

Upon a search "problem with stockpiled ventilators", there was nothing to be found about defective respirators, but I thought this article in the LA Times about the government stockpile was interesting.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-03-18/government-stockpiles-ventilators

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Yes katrina_ellen (et al, k_e shouldn’t get all the heat here) the person in office is responsible for what happens when s/he is in office.

If the ventilators began to “go bad” while Trump was in office it was his administration’s responsibility to know that and remedy it. If the ventilators were faulty upon delivery, it was the Obama administration’s initial mistake, and that does not absolve Trump admin of the responsibility to discover it during routine checks and remedy it.

Do you want Obama to come on back and fix the problem? Or should maybe Trump find it within himself to get up to the job? He wanted it after all. He worked really hard to get it. ETA if he wants to keep it, don’t you think it’s time to stop talking about what Obama didn’t do and start talking about what Trump will do?

8 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

**I should note I’m speaking in hypotheticals, as I have no knowledge that the ventilators are damaged or not**

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheesh(5b)

I sure do! Just like 9/11, had we had a responsible president it probably wouldn't have even happened in the first place.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dirtygert(5-NY)

It seems like we're all talking hypotheticals here. What is the problem with the stockpiled ventilators, k_e? Are they defective? Un-maintained and therefore unusable? Are they missing? What?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Gizmo

miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)


Do you want Obama to come on back and fix the problem? Or should
maybe Trump find it within himself to get up to the job? He wanted it
after all. He worked really hard to get it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I's sure the Trumpers wouldn't mind congressional/senate hearings on why Obama didn't maintain the ventilators after leaving office....and how Obama knew Trump would need them 3yrs into his term.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sjerin

Are the ventilators being saved for the "important" people?

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
maifleur03

That stockpile has been there since WWII and expanded during the communist scare in the 1950s. Reason I know about it is that some of it was kept where the agency I worked for had their records until they were moved. Little effort was made before 2008 to do more than count them. I doubt if any maintaining was done other than perhaps the ones in Colorado where the shelter is and WDC.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
queenmargo

Yes katrina_ellen (et al, k_e shouldn’t get all the heat here) the person in office is responsible for what happens when s/he is in office.

and yet we read post after post how Trumps great economy was Obamas.

The left only blame not give credit.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Obama left some ventilators and also prepped Trump on how to deal with a Pandemic. Did Trump take the info and heed it or did he blame someone else just as he always does with his failures?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
queenmargo

If and when we recover from this and the economy is back on track there will many who will try to give credit somehow to Obama lol.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
queenmargo

Obama left some ventilators and also prepped Trump on how to deal with a Pandemic

LOL, well there is the problem. Perhaps Trump should have listened and did NOTHING!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp

Pretty much what he did.

9 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp


4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

No one here knows what happened to those ventilators - manufacturing defect? Don't pretend you know so you can blame Trump.

Yet you are somehow able to say that Obama dropped the ball back in the day, blame him for the current situation.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
maifleur03

From the information I had at that time and reading since then about the Stratigic Stockpile each state had a small supply of all the equipment and food necessary to maintain the government if a nuclear attack happened. Certain areas had larger amounts. Regular people were not then and apparently not now considered important. If they lived fine. If not again fine. The 1950s fear of "The Bomb" makes interesting but boring reading.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

My feeling is we will be in a new normal once factories and some businesses start opening. Will they allow crowded planes and theaters? Or will there still be some social distancing, if not mandated, voluntary?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Gizmo

queenmargo

If
and when we recover from this and the economy is back on track there
will many who will try to give credit somehow to Obama lol.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yep, because Obama laid the base, it was Trumps' to mess up.

BTW, why should he get credit for a recovery when he allowed it to fail to start?

I'm sure his Jewish daughter would say...Now that's some chutzpah!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

With Trump it's all about making the sale, and not about if the product is any good.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Joaniepoanie

Trumpers should and will continue to get heat when they believe and report falsehoods and “alternative facts.”

Trump’s great economy rests on the foundation Obama created after 2008. My 401k was humming along before Trump took office.

10 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

"I fully expect my state of Illinois to be last on the Trump list because Gov. Pritzker has called Trump out as incompetent. Well, that and because we are a Blue state... Oh, I don't know. Trump hates everybody, especially the New Yorkers who know him best."

He calls Washington State Governor "snake".... your state surely has at least one competitor for the first place on his s*t list.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

This crisis is exactly what many thought would happen if Trump was tested. He has had an easy road so far, now tested he has failed imho. He failed to rise to the occasion. He failed to put people over money. He failed as a leader and a unifier. Even his MAGA failed.

8 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Wants to Grow

State and local governments are primarily responsible for maintaining public health and controlling the spread of diseases within state borders. It's up to the Governors to ensure adequate supplies of hospital beds and ventilators in their states. If your state isn't adequately prepared, thank your incompetent Governor.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

"If your state isn't adequately prepared, thank your incompetent Governor."

No, not according to

The Future of the Public's Health in the 21st Century. Published by National Academies of Science Engineering Medicine

Chapter 3 The Governmental Public Health Infrastructure

committee believes that the federal and state governments share a responsibility for assuring the public’s health. From a historical and constitutional perspective, public health is largely a local and state function.

The role of the states and localities is a primary and important one. The federal government, however, has the resources, expertise, and the obligation to assess the health of the nation and to make recommendations for its improvement. Ensuring a sound public health infrastructure is an urgent matter, and the committee urges the federal government to engage in planning for national and regional funding to accomplish this.

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/10548/the-future-of-the-publics-health-in-the-21st-century

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

If every state is on its own, what happens when a poor state doesn’t have resources?

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

If every state is on its own why have a Union at all?

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
queenmargo

If every state is on its own, what happens when a poor state doesn’t have resources?

Maybe that is where those big bad ugly corporations will step in.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

If every state is on its own, what happens when a poor state doesn’t have resources?

They ask for help, as always.

Healthcare was obama's agenda. He made laws for insurance companies and bragged about his "accomplishment". He should have had millions of everything stockpiled, but no...everything is depleted, just like the military was.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Obama was under a sequestration put in place by the GOP. Even then he managed to implement some good policies for the military which Trump has renewed and taken the credit.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

IMHO, New York should have had their own ventilators stockpiled given that the largest city in the nation resides there, a city that’s already had multiple terrorist attacks on it. The stockpile we have should be distributed to the entire country. There are many rural areas that are going to need ventilators, too.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Joaniepoanie

Cuomo has a plan. NYC and Washington get the ventilators now as that is where they are most needed. As the need in NYC and Washington goes down, ventilators are sent to the next hot spot and so on.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

"IMHO, New York should have had their own ventilators stockpiled given that the largest city in the nation resides there, a city that’s already had multiple terrorist attacks on it. "

Are you saying each city should have its own stock pile giving the size of the city, and past history, then why rural areas are not having their own?

Expending your logic, why the USA does not have stock pile, giving it is the wealthiest country with most resource and its president gives himself a 10 of 10 performance rating of handling the virus crisis as he has ultimate responsibility with most funding, talent, resource available to protect this country.


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp

This is a leader- for those in dire need of a refresher.


"It is that closeness, that concept of family, of community. That's what makes New York New York, and that's what made us vulnerable here. But it is also that closeness and that connection and that humanity and that sharing that is our greatest strength."

"I am glad, in some ways, that we're first with this situation. Because we will overcome. And we will show the other communities across this country how to do it. We'll be there for them. We want them to be there for us. And we will be there for each other."

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

@Cindy, well, the USA does have a stockpile. Maybe it’s not enough but it’s 20,000, right?

There are 70 hospitals in NYC. I’m betting each of those has ICU wards. Now go to rural KY where I live. Many counties don’t even have a hospital let alone one with ICUs. The nearest ICU to me is 1.5 hours away. Expand that across the nation. Those areas need ventilators just as much, if not more so, than NYC. Most of them are too poor to have the funds to stockpile ventilators which is why most ICU hospitals are so far away. Unless you’ve lived in one of these places, you have NO idea how difficult it is when it comes to life-threatening emergencies.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Again, why does he need 30k when he doesn't have 30k cases?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

"Again, why does he need 30k when he doesn't have 30k cases?"

Because he has foresight. He has 25k cases, it increases 5k overnight.

By the time he receives 30k he needs NOW, he may have 1000k cases in dire condition.

"New York’s cases soared by about 5,000 overnight, for a total of more than 25,000. New York City had 15,597 cases and 192 deaths, according to a city update released Tuesday night. Long Island has almost 5,000 cases.

https://www.newsday.com/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-long-island-1.43417126

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Well, they just went over 30k. My other question was, how many of them are going to need ventilators, and how many are mild cases?

The panel, the New York State Task Force on Life and the Law, studied ventilators for years before issuing a 2015 report
offering guidance for hospitals on how to decide who to ventilate and
who to effectively let die during an emergency. The advice is now
frighteningly relevant.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-ventilators.html

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

My understanding is they had over 2,000 that weren't in use before the outbreak. If they are running low, that would suggest that the 2,000 is running low, with 30k cases. Let's use that figure. The 2,000 that Trump sent them should take care of 30k more cases. I would say that NY is fine for now.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

"Unless you’ve lived in one of these places, you have NO idea how difficult it is when it comes to life-threatening emergencies."

Sorry to hear the difficulty your community is facing. We don't need to live in one of these places to understand how difficult it is.

Yet NYC is not necessarily in a better situation, they have 8.7 million in 2019, with growth rate of 1.05%.

https://www.usapopulation.org/new-york-city-population/

We are in the end of first quarter of 2020, which is 1/4 of the year. Assume the growth rate is 0.2625% as what they had in 2019. At the end of March 2020 (1.05%/4), let's use 0.2% as a low growth estimate, the current population could be around 87,175 million people. NYC is more crowded in Rural Kentucky, people will be infected way more easily. When divided available ventilators by each patient, NYC patients may receive lower allocation than patients in your community.

It is so sad to view virus crisis through this view, as for each patient would either get one (100%) or not have one (0%). It is why NYC Governor has been begging for suppliers, ventilators and hospital beds as he does not want to be in a situation to decide of who should get treatment. Trump has done nothing for the pleads other than providing lip service.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

There will not be enough ventilators. That’s accepted.

The ventilators that there are need to go where they will do the most good for the greatest number of people.

Living in a rural area has compensations and drawbacks that people living there understand and accept, and one of those drawbacks is less than cutting edge medical care. One of the compensations is less exposure to communicable disease, assuming you stay at home.

A ventilator that goes to New York has the potential to help more than one person, as people recover and leave the hospital. A ventilator that goes to a rural hospital will help fewer people, because the number of cases in a rural community will be infinitely smaller than in large metropolitan centers. I’m not saying *no* ventilators should go to small rural communities, but the ones available should mostly go to large metropolitan areas and state/federal government seats and I’m not ashamed to say that.

Also there is a hack that allows one ventilator to serve two people and I hope New York is looking into that.

Finally, it is easier for a small community to stock a couple of extra units in case they might need it, knowing that they will have fewer cases, than for a huge city to stock enough for its needs. It would be great for the federal government to create a program to help smaller communities create reasonable stockpiles. Not only money is needed. Expertise is also necessary, and to me that seems like the perfect initiative for federal oversight so that every community in the US can access it.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

What I cannot figure out is how know it all progressives in large cities aren't smart enough to have what they need and then beg for the paltry supplies and extremely limited resources that "fly over country" towns and rural areas have.

Some people will have to drive hours and hours to even get to a hospital that has a ventilator. Yet send those to NYC and Cuomo "promises" to return them when he's all done?

Right.


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

The report I posted showed that they knew about the shortage in 2015 and chose to make laws about who gets to die, rather than to start buying more ventilators.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

lurk111, you forgot to include accelerator rate of case increase in your calculation.

Now is 5k person overnight...., we don't know what the exact rate is, we only know it is not leaner, instead, it is exponential with various curves.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Also there is a hack that allows one ventilator to serve two people and I hope New York is looking into that.

Andrew Cuomo said NY waste to try this. He also mentioned that they would have to work out what to so when the two patients sharing one ventilator needed different levels of oxygen.

In Italy they have been looking to make ventilators that are adapted from other uses. One is a ventilator from a diving mask/helmet.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Gizmo

Stan Areted

What
I cannot figure out is how know it all progressives in large cities
aren't smart enough to have what they need and then beg for the paltry
supplies and extremely limited resources that "fly over country" towns
and rural areas have.

Some people will have to drive hours and hours to even get to a
hospital that has a ventilator. Yet send those to NYC and Cuomo
"promises" to return them when he's all done?

Right.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Did you even read what you wrote?

Why are big cities not smart enough to have what they need in a pandemic... but that same logic doesn't pertain to the rural areas

On an average day, NY & NYC has enough ventilators to take care of it's normal needs...can you say the same for the rural areas too?

NO


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp

Not smart enough to have what they need in a pandemic.



2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

I'm sure they know where they live. I have a friend with epilepsy and she has to drive 20 miles to the closest neurologist. Is that Trump's fault?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

What I cannot figure out is how know it all progressives in large cities aren't smart enough to have what they need and then beg for the paltry supplies and extremely limited resources that "fly over country" towns and rural areas have.

Some people will have to drive hours and hours to even get to a hospital that has a ventilator. Yet send those to NYC and Cuomo "promises" to return them when he's all done?

Right.


THIS^^^^^^ x 1000!!!


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted


Gizmo

Stan Areted

What
I cannot figure out is how know it all progressives in large cities
aren't smart enough to have what they need and then beg for the paltry
supplies and extremely limited resources that "fly over country" towns
and rural areas have.

Some people will have to drive hours and hours to even get to a
hospital that has a ventilator. Yet send those to NYC and Cuomo
"promises" to return them when he's all done?

Right.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Did you even read what you wrote?

Why are big cities not smart enough to have what they need in a pandemic... but that same logic doesn't pertain to the rural areas

On an average day, NY & NYC has enough ventilators to take care of it's normal needs...can you say the same for the rural areas too?

NO


Did you think about what you wrote?


Yes, they do have less because they have fewer people.

IF they gave up their one or two per hospital to send to NYC, they would have NONE.

NYC has WAY more than one or two.

And he wants the one or two rural areas have?

Suck it up.

IT's NYC for God's sake.

What's hard to think about how many would be needed?

Too busy giving illegal criminals benefits, no doubt.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Wait, did Cuomo ask for the one or two ventilators that rural areas have? That would be a completely different story and would change my opinion.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

On a normal day, NY & NYC has enough ventilators to take care of it's normal needs...can you say the same for he rural areas too? NO


Huh?? Of course the rural areas have enough ventilators to take care of their needs on normal day. They just have to drive to get to it. None of the larger hospitals that have ventilators and staff/MD's trained on how to intubate a patient are turning people away ON A NORMAL DAY. But we aren't talking about normal days, are we?? We are talking about a time of pandemic and the people in fly over country aren't less important than people living in crowded urban areas.

And now that I've done more digging after this OP, it DOES appear that the Fed is indeed sending 4,000 ventilators to NYC.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-area-sees-covid-19-attack-rate-5x-higher-than-anywhere-in-u-s-feds/2341275/


1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Joaniepoanie

OMG....who suggested rural areas send their ventilators to NYC? We are talking about the 20,000 federal stockpile sitting in warehouses that Trump won’t release.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

They don't need 20,000 right now. He's acting like he needs 30,000 now.

Acting.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

30,000 x $40,000 = $1.2 billion and 10,000 more units than we have. Impossible.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

He's getting 4000, not 400. Why ARE we even talking about this?!?!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Joaniepoanie

Cuomo knows how many ventilators NYC will need in the coming weeks as cases grow exponentially—-30,000. They are currently and will be the hardest hit. The first hot spot as it were. It takes time for them to be sent and set up, make sure they are operating. Why is this so hard to grasp? And why isn’t Trump releasing the stockpile to NYC? 4,000 is 1/8 of what they’ll need.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

I thought we went through "why he is asking for 30000 units" 4 hours ago, do you want me to explain that once more?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

Living in a rural area has compensations and drawbacks that people living there understand and accept, and one of those drawbacks is less than cutting edge medical care. One of the compensations is less exposure to communicable disease, assuming you stay at home.

A ventilator that goes to New York has the potential to help more than one person, as people recover and leave the hospital. A ventilator that goes to a rural hospital will help fewer people, because the number of cases in a rural community will be infinitely smaller than in large metropolitan centers. I’m not saying *no* ventilators should go to small rural communities, but the ones available should mostly go to large metropolitan areas and state/federal government seats and I’m not ashamed to say that.


I've mulled over these comments for a few hours and here's my take: Living in an urban area has compensations and it has drawbacks that people living there understand and accept. One of those drawbacks is more exposure to communicable disease. Another is that people living in urban areas rely SUBSTANTIALLY on those living in rural areas for their food supply. People living in urban areas could be just as less exposed if they stayed home as well and took the measures that most rural people know to take such as stockpiling basic survival supplies. People living in urban areas take these risks because they feel the rewards outweigh the risks. Often, they do, but sometimes not. Like now.

Every human life has value. Mine, yours, everyone's. However, my loved ones living in rural America shouldn't be denied access to a ventilator, if needed, simply because people living in an area WITH INCREASED RISK think that they are more important. I don't like to speak in terms of "importance", but when it boils down to it, the most important are those keeping America fed on a daily basis. It's a sad fact but worth saying.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

Cuomo should be sourcing his own ventilators and not relying on the US Gov't to give him the entire stockpile. Frankly, giving him 1/5 the stockpile seems RATHER generous. There ARE 49 other states whose numbers are going to keep growing as well and who are going to need them. Do you really think Cuomo is going to pull one of his New Yorkers off a vent to send that vent to Idaho when Idaho runs out?!?! No, he's going to keep them all for his own citizens and to heck with everyone else.

Edited to add: Cuomo doesn't NEED 30,000 ventilators right this instance. He MIGHT need them at some point in the future. It doesn't seem prudent for the US Gov't to go ahead and send him the entire stockpile to create HIS stockpile. I'm sure more would be sent if they aren't needed elsewhere but right now, he doesn't need them.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp

I don't know what the issue is.

Everything will be back to normal by Easter.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

It’s not a stockpile if it is being used.

I’m not arguing that New York should get every ventilator in the whole wide world.

It’s interesting though, that in other circumstances we hear “if you can’t earn a living where you live, just move to where there are better opportunities” and “grandparents would be happy to sacrifice their life in order to keep the economy on track for their kids and grandkids.”

Then here it’s “why shouldn’t we get as many ventilators as New York, just because we live in a rural area?” “Why should New York get ventilators, they should have planned ahead. It’s not the same for my community—my community is poor.” “Why should I sacrifice my life to keep someone in New York alive?”

How heartless would it sound for someone to say now “if you live in an area with no ventilators just move.”

What good would it do for a grandparent to “sacrifice their life” for the economy if the hub of the US economy—New York—falls?

It’s glaring hypocrisy.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp

100%


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

@misslindsey,

Glaring hypocrisy?!?! Um, no.

IF New York ends up needing all those ventilators and no other state needs extras, then, yes, New York should get them. But right now, New York doesn't need that many and moving them from the Federal stockpile to New York prematurely puts other lives in other states in danger. What happens when ventilators are needed elsewhere and they are inaccessible because every single one is already in use by someone in New York? Cuomo isn't going to hand them over.

This is about being strategic in the distribution of the ventilators. Implying it's selfish or hypocritical for the millions of people in other areas of the country to worry about their own shortage of ventilators and leaving them to fend for themselves while somewhere else gets them all (or most of them) is well, hypocritical.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Nana H

Is there a federal strategy on delivering the ventilators where needed? Can someone point me to it?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

No, the proposal sounds appealing, but there is one fallacy- ventilators are properties of US government, crimes he and his organization committed are his personal liabilities. Cannot mix up the two.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheesh(5b)

Preparedness. How long does it take to get the ventilators to the hospital, from the time patient Number 401 needs one through the requisition in the hospital to the stockpile to the shipping clerk through billing and then trucked or flown to the state and then distributed to the dying patient Number 401 ? I have no idea, but let's say, oh, three days. Long time to wait for.the next breath.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
bragu_DSM 5

let's see 50 states times 400 per state ... math doesn't work.

speaking of math doesn't work

I have a very hard time feeling sorry for the big city hospitals that get better federal reimbursement for conducting hospital lab tests than hospitals in rural areas. The chemical reagents cost the same, but the big cities get 'about what it costs' to conduct a lab test, while rural hospitals receive far, far less. It's been going on for decades ...

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

2 months already wasted.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Joaniepoanie

Shead——no one has suggested taking ventilators from rural areas. As Cuomo explained there will be hot spots. For example, the hot spot now/next week is NYC—send as many ventilators there now as possible. Next hot spot in three weeks is, say, New Orleans—-transfer ventilators no longer needed in NYC to New Orleans. Hot spot in five weeks is LA—-transfer vents no longer needed in Nola to La and so on.

If people in urban areas take risks living there, then so do people in rural areas with not enough hospitals or nearby hospitals or medical personnel. Where people live is irrelevant.

And Trump made the comment tonight that he is willing to help Dem govs but “ they have to treat us well too.” He’s playing partisan politics in the middle of a pandemic. He knows NYC needs the ventilators but they didn’t vote for him so he’s doing nothing. How sick is that?

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

"he is willing to help Dem govs, "

LOL! So the idiot does not know those states are in the United States of America, taking care of the people in those states is his duty.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
maifleur03

There are not enough ventilators in this country and it takes time to build them and make certain that all the computer parts work. If you use one on a person an it is not correctly set you run the risk of either not having enough air or turning the lungs to slush.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

I never said ventilators would be taken away from rural areas’ existing supply. The point was that NY shouldn’t take more than they actually need right now. It’s pretty naive to think that the transfer of ventilators would be an easy process in the midst of a “hot spot.” My continual point has been that NY should get some of the stockpile (maybe even the largest percentage) but it shouldn’t necessarily get the entire stockpile as other areas will have needs surpassing its supply very quickly.


Trump has told governors to be seeking their own PPE and ventilators. What if the federal stockpile didn’t exist at all? What would NYC do then? What would any of us do? I actually looked at the numbers today and it appears that many “fly over states” actually have more ventilators per capita than New York. And it still won’t be enough in most locations sadly. Unfortunately, no one could predict a pandemic of this proportion, but it seems clear to me that larger cities should have been anticipating and preparing for some event in which their populations would need more critical care units than usual whether it be an epidemic, terrorist attack, or natural disaster. I don’t think it’s wise to depend on the federal stockpile in those instances to supplement needs.


Hopefully, the rural areas will be okay with the ventilators they have. Sadly, not all places will be. I believe the federal government should distribute from the stockpile fairly.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Joaniepoanie and shead, it was Stan who said

“NYC has WAY more than one or two.

And he wants the one or two rural areas have?

Suck it up.

IT's NYC for God's sake.”

It is also Stan who often says “they can move” when anyone suggests a way that conditions could be improved for people living in poorer areas.

Maybe ventilators, like Representatives and Electors, should be distributed proportionally by population.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Michigan is not really bad yet with Covid-19 and one big conglomerate hospital is nearly at capacity for ventilators.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
matthias_lang

Well, the one place the ventilators do not belong is in a warehouse somewhere.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

Why is nobody talking about individual states and their readiness status for disasters? For example, did Cuomo not know how many people are in NYC? What was/is his plan? Same with the other big cities. It seems curious that everyone is talking about the president, and glossing over the 50 other "leaders". What are governors for?

§3. The protection and promotion of the health of the inhabitants of the state are matters of public concern and provision therefor shall be made by the state and by such of its subdivisions and in such manner, and by such means as the legislature shall from time to time determine. New York Constitution

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

NYC still has not coverted their anesthesia 14 thousand anesthesia ventilators, nor have they gathered the ventilators from outpatient centers yet.


I believe 4400 from the rederal stockpile is about right. Louisiana, and LA are about to need their share.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Nana H

I don't think many expect the State/Provincial governments or the Federal government to have everything on hand to manage anything , at least I don't. However they do expect that they have an effective , well thought out plan which is revisited regularly to deal with disastrous situations and an ability to execute it.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Why hasn’t Trump asked for military help distributing, organizing, and using medical personnel expertise?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Nana H

I said that quite some time ago. He needs to put a military guy in charge, Someone like Honore after Katrina. They know how to do this!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

Kathy asked. "Why hasn’t Trump asked for military help distributing, organizing, and using medical personnel expertise?"


He has. 1st he had to wait for NY Governor to ask. He then declared disaster area, then he sent in National Guard. The military can assist the guard, and the military expeditionary hospitals, the mobile morgues, and distributing supplies. He is even sending the hospital ship Comfort to handle trauma care-to lessen the burden on land based hospitals.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Nana H

She is really good. She looks so naive and sweet......kaboom! She is a military wife and very involved in support groups for military spouses. Think she may have a pod cast.

Totally off topic...but the anchors are doing their shows from home and doing their own hair and makeup . It's kinda fun to see them semi au naturel.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Cindy Outter

"He has. 1st he had to wait for NY Governor to ask. He then declared disaster area, then he sent in National Guard. The military can assist the guard, and the military expeditionary hospitals, the mobile morgues, and distributing supplies. He is even sending the hospital ship Comfort to handle trauma care-to lessen the burden on land based hospitals."

Why does he have to wait for NY Governor to ask? In fact, the NY and other States' governors have been asking for medical suppliers, equipments, ventilators, hospital beds, medical staff/help ...etc. for weeks if not months, but Trump ignored them all. Remember his response to Washington State's dire situation is "The governor is a snake".

So, on top of the two plus months he has wasted, he is dragging and wasting more time in taking action, while infectious and death rate exponentially sky rocking break records daily.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dandyfopp

I wasn't aware Nana, but I am not a regular consumer.

We need to clone Keilar.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
mariagrazia

I found the article below interesting. It appears NY knew they didn't have enough ventilators in 2015. They had the money and should have bought them. They wrote up rationing guidelines instead (second link).

https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-didnt-have-to-have-ventilator-shortage-leaders-chose-not-to-prep-for-pandemic/

https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/task_force/reports_publications/docs/ventilator_guidelines.pdf

Also, it's very interesting to look at the number of icu beds in countries with universal national health systems compared to the US - Italy has 1/3 as many icu beds per capita compared to US; UK has 1/5 per capita compared to the US.

I had to look it up - Cuomo has been governor of NY since 2011.


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

Yep, NY actually passed laws on who gets to die rather than to buy more ventilators.

The panel, the New York State Task Force on Life and the Law, studied ventilators for years before issuing a 2015 report
offering guidance for hospitals on how to decide who to ventilate and
who to effectively let die during an emergency. The advice is now
frighteningly relevant.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-ventilators.html


studied ventilators for years

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
shead

@Cindy, it has to do with chain of command. The federal government cannot overstep state government in certain issues. I have a family member who is a locally elected official and he explained that he and his council had to vote a state of emergency for our county which then opened us up to state and federal funds. I don’t believe it’s a top down approach but a bottom up.

2 Likes Save    
Browse Gardening and Landscaping Stories on Houzz See all Stories
Kitchen Makeovers A ‘Brady Bunch’ Kitchen Overhaul for Less Than $25,000
Homeowners say goodbye to avocado-colored appliances and orange-brown cabinets and hello to a bright new way of cooking
Full Story
Budgeting Your Project Kitchen Remodel Costs: 3 Budgets, 3 Kitchens
What you can expect from a kitchen remodel with a budget from $20,000 to $100,000
Full Story
Budgeting Your Project Bathroom Workbook: How Much Does a Bathroom Remodel Cost?
Learn what features to expect for $3,000 to $100,000-plus, to help you plan your bathroom remodel
Full Story