covid-19 Cleaning & Sanitizing

dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

Now that they have found covid-19 virus can stay viable after 17 days on a cruise ship, you should re-think your cleaning and sterilizing methods.


Also curious if they will change "two week quarantine" recommendation.


I see people eating salads using fresh vegetables from stores. I don't understand how you can make sure that virus and germs can be sterilized on vegetables, certainly not by washing.


dcarch

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Sisters in faith

You can't live a bubble and you can't kill every germ that can harm you. Follow CDC guidelines. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/get-your-household-ready-for-COVID-19.html

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maifleur03

There is a reason that health experts have warned against using antibacterial stuff. They not only kill off bad bacteria but also kill off the ones that keep our immune systems healthy.

To address the salad comment that applies to every fresh fruit and veggie. There is no way that you can remove all of the bacteria in and on them. If a person only wants to eat canned veggies that is on them but those canning processes remove needed vitamins from most foods.

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Sisters in faith

European Food Safety Authority chief scientist, Marta Hugas, said: “Experiences from previous outbreaks of related coronaviruses, such as severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV), show that transmission through food consumption did not occur. At the moment, there is no evidence to suggest that coronavirus is any different in this respect.” http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/news/coronavirus-no-evidence-food-source-or-transmission-route


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Bookwoman
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Lucille

Dcarch I am curious, how are you changing your own cleaning methods? Are you for now not eating fresh fruits and vegetables?

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

I guess much will depend on what/who you read or listen to and what you believe. According to the CDC: "Coronaviruses are generally thought to be spread from person-to-person through respiratory droplets. Currently, there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food."....and" the chances of getting coronavirus from delivered packages is likely very low."

Personally I prefer not to drive myself nuts worrying about issues which have a very minimal chance of occurrence. And keep myself safe by staying home and avoiding contact with other humans, who are the primary carriers, not salads or food wrappings and containers or mail!

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Ziemia

I am avoiding lettuce - too much surface area (tho more likely to spread bacteria than a virus.

I don't understand how CDC can say to clean hard surfaces and then think an apple is safe without cleaning?

Salad bars? Everyone touches the utensils. For me, it's more that than the food.

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l pinkmountain

You can clean fruits and vegetables with a VERY low level bleach solution. Don't try this at home without consulting a reputable source for how to do it. I actually use soap and water on some things. Not sure if it would work on a virus. Also not sure if we will ever know if it clings to fruits and vegetables. Other similar viruses have not show that to be the major carrier of the infection. One can only test and study so much, do most of what will help most. We don't even have a clue how many pesticide poisons might be on our foods due to very limited testing. In these trying economic times, I don't think we are going to waste resources testing every surface, when research dollars will need to go to investigating the best ways of keeping health care workers safe and vaccine and treatment development.

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Ziemia

Soap and water works on viruses.

That's why all the hand washing....

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nannygoat_gw

This is a very good article that was posted in another thread: https://medium.com/@amcarter/i-had-no-immune-system-for-months-after-my-bone-marrow-transplant-1b097f16040c


My DH had a bone marrow transplant several years ago. The procedures described in the linked article have become a part of our daily life that we routinely do without thinking about it.

It did seem overwhelming at first.



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dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

"Lucille

Dcarch I am curious, how are you changing your own cleaning methods? Are you for now not eating fresh fruits and vegetables?"

First, a disclaimer: I am not in anyway relayed to the medical profession. Please don't follow what I do. May people who know me know that I do crazy things.

That said. I totally simplified/complicated (depending on your interpretation) my way of dealing with COVID-19. I believe that (again I am very ignorant) air borne virus is also a way COVID-19 gets transmitted, therefore face mast works. I am not sure we know why you can't touch your face. Can virus go thru your skin? ---many more questions.

I use a germicidal UV light to sanitize everything that comes into the house, clothing, shoes, keys, cell phone, mail, money, packages, fruits, cans, supermarket purchases ----. Flip the switch, 2 seconds of work, done.

UV light also generates ozone, which can kill off air borne virus.

For salad greens, I have my own high power LED grow lights to grow all kinds of greens indoors. I always have an over supply. I can't spend $300 for an ultrasonic /Ozone vegetable sterilizer.


dcarch



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dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

"---

You can clean fruits and vegetables with a VERY low level bleach solution. ---"


No you can't. There are thousands of microscopic air bubbles on vegetables, Only an ultrasonic can remove by cavitation.


dcarch

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Bookwoman

I am not sure we know why you can't touch your face. Can virus go thru your skin?

No, but it can enter through the mucous membranes of your nose, eyes, and mouth. It can do that through airborne transmission, if someone coughs or sneezes near you (hence the 6 ft. distancing if you're around other people). And it can do that if you touch a contaminated surface and then bring your hands to your face. Which is why handwashing and social distancing are the most important steps you can take to minimize transmission of the virus.

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Kathy

Touching your face can also be a way to spread the virus to others.

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lurker111

I use a germicidal UV light to sanitize everything that comes into the house,

I tried to offer that same advice.

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yeonassky

It seems to me that the main thing with this virus is to keep it out of our lungs. So that's what I think we need to primarily focus on personally. That means washing our hands trying not to breathe on other people or have them breathe on us Etc.

I don't think it hurts to be cautious however. Wear a mask dispose of packaging before it comes in your home and wash veggies if that gives you comfort.

I think it's okay to go a bit extreme when there is an extreme hazard. In my humble opinion this is an extreme hazard.

Also it's best if we don't add extra burden by perhaps introducing an excess amount of the virus. That is apparently what is killing frontline Medical people. That and perhaps not enough safety precautions were given to them. I find that very upsetting. We should be doing everything to protect the people who are trying to keep us from dying.

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patriciae_gw

Telling people to keep their hands away from their faces is the short way of saying keep them away from moist openings in your face-eyes, nose, mouth.

The openings in face masks-the actual fabric of the mask is like super highways to the virus. the virus is very very tiny-about one micron and the pores of a N95 mask are three. That mask seems to be most effective though probably because the droplets that hold the virus are larger. Masks are most effective in keeping virus in, not out.

Soap is effective as a cleaner because Covid-19 has an outer lipid coating-that is fat and soap is particularly effective at grabbing fats. That is it's super power. I didn't know this about Covid-19 until recently. I knew soap grabbed dirt and water rinsed the packet away but it is even better at actually damaging the covid package.

You can wash firm skinned fruits with soap and water which prevents you from getting the virus on your hands from the surfaces

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Lucille

UV light also generates ozone, which can kill off air borne virus.

Enough ozone can produce adverse symptoms in people- cough, shortness of breath, etc.

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2ManyDiversions

This is strictly my opinion only, and I don't wish to say anyone else is wrong, and only I am right : ) My thoughts are this:

How would anyone (Physicians, CDC) know how others are and aren't getting sick from Covid-19 transmissions? It's my understanding the data isn't available. There seems to be a lot that isn't known as fact as regards this virus.

If the FDA requires protection in restaurants and other areas which serve uncooked foods (aka sneeze guards) to prevent the spread of colds and flu, how can I assume no one has coughed or sneezed on grocery store produce sitting on shelves?

... which is followed by asking myself this: How can I be sure my produce is safe after I wash it when washing under my kitchen faucet is considered ineffective for E. coli? Effects of household washing...

Even if there is a low incidence of food/mail/cardboard/solid surface to person transmission, am I willing to take a chance at this time with something that could kill me? I'll answer that one. I think many who are lower risk aren't as concerned about various transmission means beyond person to person, and then some to a point where they aren't concerned much at all (thinking of young people I still see today, gathering). But, those in the higher risk category are taking far more measures to protect themselves. As they should : ) I am one of them. And perhaps that is why, I personally, prefer to take a few more precautions than others.

And finally, I'll revisit the question I asked myself above with another way I personally view this topic: Did I ignore FDA warnings about romaine lettuce each time the FDA recalled it due to E. coli? Did I say, oh, heck, I'll just wash it, that'll be okay-dokey? No, I did not : ) And that's why I won't eat uncooked vegetables. Others are quite welcome to as I am the boss of myself only... well, and of my DH ; )

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sjerin

Apart from bathroom routine, I mostly wash my hands (very, very well) when I come into the house after being out. I have thin skin on my hands and the skin dries and tears at the drop of a hat--very painful. Many nights I sit in front of the tv for half and hour, with hands slathered in Vaseline, and then wipe it off with kleenex. Maybe dh and I will be among the first to get the virus in my neighborhood but there's no way I can constantly wash my hands.

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dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

There is a need for precise scientific information. Don't touch your face is confusing, unless the virus can actually go thru your skin.

Wash your hands after going to the bathroom is confusing. I think more important to wash your hands BEFORE you go to the bathroom so you don't touch your soft parts with dirty hands.

Don't elbow bum, if the advice is to sneeze into your elbows.

No evidence to show that eating food can get COVID-19? Is there evidence to show that it can't? After all 50% of the infected have GI problems.

No, to me, sneeze/cough into tissue paper is useless and bad, Always sneeze /cough into a towel or napkin.

dcarch



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Bookwoman

sjerin, have you tried putting on cotton gloves, or even a pair of socks, over the Vaseline and wearing them overnight? You might also try a moisturizer like Eucerin or Cerave.

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socks

What kind of soap are we talking aBout for washing fruits and veggies? Dish detergent?

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chipotle

Bottom line, do what you're comfortable doing for your own personal circumstance.

I keep a clean kitchen. I don't cross contaminate. I've also never used bleach in the kitchen. I'm not OCD, although I have been washing my hands much more than normal.

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dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

After some postal workers tested positive, just read 4 Shoprite supermarket store workers tested positive.

That's why I do what I do, work out an easy and practical way to sanitize all incoming items into my house.

dcarch

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terezosa / terriks

What kind of soap are we talking aBout for washing fruits and veggies? Dish detergent?

That's what I've been using, because that's what I have at the sink, but I think that any hand soap would do.

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blfenton

@Bookwoman and nannygoat - that was a great article, so practical and easy to follow.

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patriciae_gw

E.coli is a bacteria and bacteria have a very narrow ph window that they can live in and a vinegar and water soak is usually effective in killing it. Virus are another entire sort of thing. There are many kinds of virus. This particular one is an RNAvirus and that means it has a lipid (fat) coating amongst other things particular to that sort. This is good as it will be killed by soap. Most things are not killed by soap. They attach to the soap molecule and are then rinsed away.

Dish soap is a sort of soap that has additives that make it suds (just eye candy) but also disperse in water making it easier to rinse away (it actually bonds to water molecules in addition to the virus) plus other for our purposes useless things. It is a great hand cleaner and degreaser and the degreasing part apparently kills the RNAvirus. This is my present understanding of how it is working in addition to the usual grab and go effect of just soap.

Or put another way, detergents like dish soap and most bath bars have additives that are designed in part to grab "dirt" and grab water and then easily rinse away without forming that annoying ring around the sink or bath tub. In addition it will actually break down the coating on the RNAvirus and kill it. Soap is our friend at the moment. You can wash your firm skinned fruit like mangos, melons, bananas, oranges, apples, nectarines, plums etc with soap and water getting rid of virus and bacteria. Or I can, you can look this up for a reputable source and decide for your self as I might be insane and don't know it.

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jakkom

>>Now that they have found covid-19 virus can stay viable after 17 days on a cruise ship, you should re-think your cleaning and sterilizing methods.>>

This is not quite correct. Per Business Insider, 5 hrs ago:

"...A new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found traces of the coronavirus in the cabins of the Diamond Princess cruise ship 17 days after passengers disembarked, but before the surfaces were disinfected.


Tara C. Smith, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Kent State University, warned against misinterpreting those findings, and pointed out that the researchers didn't specify what surfaces they found it on, how common it was, or whether it was live virus that could infect people. "

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KatieC

dcarch, thank you for the info on your uv light setup. I looked at the wands for sanitizing keyboards a few years ago, but at the time I had a couple of employees that I just knew were going to flash themselves in the eyes so I kind of forgot about it. And I got rid of all our random toys because...euw...who knew what was on them. Now I want to build an educational play center.

We're putting a commercial kitchen in our library addition and I'm writing a grant for a play kitchen and all the pans and utensils, measuring tools etc. for educational playtime, and to encourage families to play together. I'm writing the cost of a setup like yours into the grant...I even have the perfect closet for it.

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sjerin

Bookwoman, yes, I have done that in the past but the gloves become Vasseline-sodden very quickly and I get tired of constantly washing them. The dermatologist I originally saw told me to never, never use creams or lotions on my hands. I also don't like the idea of such contaminating food as I make meals because washing it off would defeat the purpose. No easy answer, but thanks for trying.

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cattyles

Dcharch, I haven’t read the whole thread so not sure if it has been said. But Emily has asked us not to cross post HT with other forums.

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Tilly Teabag

Eat cooked food, no salads, fruit with removable packaging either natural or manmade.

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dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

"Dcharch, I haven’t read the whole thread so not sure if it has been said. But Emily has asked us not to cross post HT with other forums."

Emily perhaps should consider making an exception for topics related to COVID-19. It is very important to share safety information in this very bad worldwide emergency.

It's about life and death for all people on this earth.

Thank you.

dcarch


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elvis

Interesting thread, thanks all for the insights.

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Ann

Bookwoman, Cerave for me too. The regular variety doesn't do enough for me but Cerave SA works great.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

In Monday's lab meeting he said something about it being viable for nine days, not double. But I also think, we DON'T know. Still.


It's so much unknown territory. Except, it all sucks.


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HU-382216170

I am keeping a big tub of water with bleach and soap in the courtyard, and will dump all food wrapped in plastic (mostly frozen) to wash before dumping into the freezer. When I use it, I will handle only the outside when dumping the contents into the pan or pot for cooking which will then kill any virus that has survived on the food itself. Freezing does not kill corona viruses is my understanding. Heat does.

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2ManyDiversions

For those of you using bleach for any purpose, when mixing with water, it will lose disinfecting power after a day. I remember this from the parvovirus days, and have re-read it more recently. Be sure to mix new solutions daily.

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terezosa / terriks

Here's the information on bleach. Not only does it lose effectiveness when mixed with water, if it's over 6 months to a year old it stops working too.

https://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_20060213/bleach.html

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terezosa / terriks

Emily perhaps should consider making an exception for topics related to COVID-19. It is very important to share safety information in this very bad worldwide emergency.

Only if that information is backed up with a legitimate source - CDC, WHO, etc.

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Bookwoman

Interesting...so do bottles of Tilex (which is just dilute bleach) have something else in them to prevent that deterioration? I use it very occasionally, and it always works to get rid of the mold/mildew. My bottle is at least a year old.

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dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

Also Google bleach powder.

dcarch

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2ManyDiversions

"Not only does it lose effectiveness when mixed with water, if it's over 6 months to a year old it stops working too." According to the Dept of Health, bleach does not lose effectiveness when mixed with water, it's when it's mixed with water and one uses for more than X amount of hours. The Use of Bleach. Also on the CDC website: Cleaning and Sanitizing with Bleach after an Emergency

I think you meant it loses effectiveness after a period of time, or when mixed in the wrong concentrations?

ET to correct a typo.

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