Kitchen layout - wall oven, rangetop size, counter space, sink, trash?
Hi, we are doing a 12x12’ kitchen and decided to forgo the regular oven. Will use an XXL Miele combi steam oven and a Miele speed oven on the wall as we want them to be at higher level so we can save our knees and backs in the near future. Space is really limited as we would like to have a 36” range top and a 36” fridge/freezer. Please see drawing below. Here are some questions. I would love to hear your thoughts/comments/suggestions/advice.
1. Is counter space next to the stove too narrow at 12” + 18”? On the left side of the stove particularly, it’s only 12”. Would it be OK since the L shaped counter next to it could help a bit?
2. Would you recommend a 30” range top instead of 36” to give more counter space?
3. If we go with the 12” L + 18” R counter space, how should we design the upper cabinets? Would 18”wide cab + 12”wide cab + 36"range hood + 18”wide cab look too strange and unbalanced?
4. At the current design, the distance from the center of the main sink to the center of the range top is at ~ 7ft, is this too far?
5. Where would you put the trash bins?
6. Position of the sinks? I am a righty and prefer to work on the left side of the sink so that I can easily sweep/dispose any unwanted parts to the sink while chopping:
a. Bar sink: where should I put the bar sink?
b. 30" main sink: should I switch it with the DW?
Many many thanks for your help!
Comments (14)
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Comments (10)I looked into installing a single wall oven under an induction cooktop (I ended up getting an induction slide-in range though). What was interesting was that most induction brands allowed it IF the wall oven was the same brand as the cooktop. This included Kitchenaid - don't know where you got your information, but the installation instructions do allow for it with certain ovens - it turns out it is the Kitchen Aid single ovens. Two brands did not allow for a single oven under the cooktop even with their own brands (well, it voided the warranty so the same thing): Bosch and Thermador. No problem with Jennair, Kitchenaid, GE, Electrolux, and Frigidaire. I think Whirlpool also didn't allow it, but I wasn't considering that brand. Don't worry about the venting. There is some venting in all ovens - whether built in wall ovens or ranges. The vents aren't any more hot for a wall oven than a regular range. The reason I chose a slide-in induction range had nothing to do with the height of the oven. The wall oven under the cooktop would have been about the same height as a range's oven. Rather, I really liked the Kitchenaid induction with its (albeit small) second baking drawer. I cook a lot and could see using this. Plus, the cost was much less for a slide-in than a separate cooktop and wall oven. Our house is being remodeled and we haven't even been able to move in yet - so I haven't used it. I hope I love it. It does look nice....See MoreMismatched Kitchen Counter-tops
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Comments (7)Why do you want an under counter wall oven - I ask because they are less functional than a slide in range especially since you are probably planning to age in place since you are now an empty nester. You should be thinking of the most ergonomatic choices and typically the under counter wall oven is done for aesthetic reasons and the oven is lower than in a stove. This becomes a factor as you age. You could get an induction slide in range. When I remodeled there were a few models I was considering. Because I remodeled my kitchen with a view to aging in place, I opted for a side opening wall oven with the oven installed at a perfect height for me. Because it is side opening, I can stand direclty in front of it instead of having to lean over the sides. I installed a microwave drawer below it because that was the only way I would be able to have a real hood over the cook top (Bosch induction FWIW) and not have it take up counter space. As others have posted, installing a wall oven is more expensive since the two comparable quality appliances are more expensive. The tall cabinet housing the wall oven is more expensive and installation is more expensive than a simple stove. I also had to upgrade my electrical panel because each appliance needed to be on its own heavy duty circuit. However it was worth it to me to have a wall oven at a comfortable height rather than below the counter....See MoreI have 6' of space-how much space for sink cabinet, nail counter?
Comments (23)Wow! For the record, I wasn’t posting a ‘rate my floor plan’. I am not so hard headed that I can’t receive advice, consider alternatives, or answer questions. From reading the responses, it seems our bathroom is so terrible that no one can even give input on how to address the questions I listed in my first post. I find it hard to believe it is so bad as that! Meanwhile only one person has said they have a counter such as I am asking about. I also never said I was unwilling to change things around, just that I didn’t think a simple swap of vanities would work. I even included a bigger view of the adjoining areas to show it would not be as simple as that. What even would you have me tell my architect? That some random people on the internet think her design could be better? I could spend my time trying to justify why we didn’t put the long vanity on the opposite side of the room, or under a window, or why I will be including a toilet room. And then you would either understand why we have come to this design, or you would tear my entire home apart. If you have ever built a home, especially a design from scratch custom home, you know that it is like putting puzzle pieces together. We all have our lists of must haves, wish items, and constraints of design and budget, and time. At some point you just have to decide to be finished. I actually never said I was in the design phase. Walls are not up yet, but none of you ever asked where we were in the build process. I’m an introvert and sensitive person who has had a pretty traumatic last year and a half. It’s taken me a while to feel like I can venture out of my shell and reach out to others-even in a basically anonymous way online. If I had read such negative and generally unhelpful comments a year ago, I would have probably spiraled into a deep depression and doubted myself, what I wanted in my home, as well as the talented professionals I have partnered with to design our home. It’s unfortunate that people can take the time to comment online without taking the time to read the post, think about whether they are giving any constructive advice, or if their tone is derogatory. Not to mention, ignoring the topic at hand. I have been a member since it was just gardenweb some 10+ years ago. From discussions about kitchens, baths, home building, and pools, I used to always find these forums helpful, informative, and a generally positive experience. I will try to remain optimistic that I will still experience that. Juls...See More
mama goose_gw zn6OH
4 years agoI would make the island shallower and move the sink run out to give you a deeper counter between the sink and cooktop. Move the DW to the left of the sink, and keep dishes in drawers in the island. The bar sink wouldn't be necessary, unless you want to keep it for handwashing, or a second prep area for a helper. Definitely go with a 30" cooktop.
S + U thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
Buehl
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoYou're getting good advice. If you'd like us to help you, then please provide us with the following measurements. I included the ones you provided, but please verify as many have +/- and/or ~, meaning you don't know for sure -- inches add up and they can make a difference in what you can/cannot fit.
Note the comments & questions on the image (e.g., asking about a Powder Room on the right, what is/is not a wall, what the top is, etc.).
S + U thanked Buehlmama goose_gw zn6OH
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoIf that's not a wall (or a pony wall) to the left, I like dan1888's ideas. You'd need to watch the pinch-point (36"), but you could make the aisle on the right wider. That would set the island out farther from the perimeter, but dan's suggestion of making the perimeter counters deeper (light gray line) would help close the gap. Until exploring his ideas, I hadn't noticed how narrow the aisle to the right of the island is in the original plan.
Is that a bathroom to the right?
S + U thanked mama goose_gw zn6OHS + U
4 years agoI attached the entire floor plan here. I have also made 3 more alternatives per everyone’s suggestions. Please keep giving me your valuable advices!. I will try to answer each question. But first and foremost, I want to thank everyone who is reading my post and trying to help me with my questions. I am so grateful for you all!
1. To Diana Bier Interiors, LLC : I am not a designer, I wish I was though😉 We have worked with an architect firm for quite some time for the entire house renovation. We have tried everything to make the best out of the limited space for the kitchen and a powder room (a must for us) on the 2nd floor. Finally, we came up with this general idea. I would love to hear from our Houzz community. BTW, venting the range hood is not an issue per our contractor. My main concerns are those 6 questions listed in my first post.
2. To Lisa Dipiro : the reason for 36” walkway to the right side of the island: there is really not much traffic going on as all action is taking place on the other side of the island. So, we chose to give more space to the island. As for the fridge, we are using Sub-zero and its doors can be opened 90 degree, so no space needed for that part of the wall. Would you think this still works (walkway)?.
3. To clt3 : we cooked one turkey in the past 25 years. So, we decided to go with XXL Miele Combi-steam oven (24”W x 24”H) which can fit a 15 -20 lb bird if we really want to cook another turkey in the next 25 years. Heard that the combi-steam oven is amazing:)
4. To mama goose_gw zn6OH : wow, amazing mind. Shrinking the island, moving the peninsular to give a full counter around the corner wall! Should I try to put the wall ovens against that wall? I did a few more drawings. Your thoughts? Agree with no bar sink and a 30” range top.
5. To dan1888 and mama goose_gw zn6OH : great thinking! We have tried to turn the island by 90 degree again and again in the past. But the distance btw the range and island is at 5 to 6ft, even if the main counter row is deepened. We are afraid 5-6ft is too wide. I am only 5’2” and plays the main chief in the house currently.
6. To live_wire_oak : love your philosophy. Yes we wanted to have EVERYTHING in this small kitchen don't we? We will have to give up something here in this space, you are right.
7. To Buehl l: many details I left out at the first post. My bad. Please see the entire floor plan. The walls are pretty much fixed. The “+/-“s or “?”s are due to uncertainties as the entire house is to be rebuilt. We are a family of two, just myself and the hubby. But I am a mother who is longing for her grown up children to come back home on weekends or one day perhaps with their wives and my grandchildren too. Food prep/cooking, entertaining is all in our plans when we retire. I do not like people watching me to cook. The husband wants to learn baking when he retires but that may never happen as he loves his job too much. Thanks for all the links on kitchen design! Very helpful.
Diana Bier Interiors, LLC