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Niles Cochet - another sport in the Maman Cochet family

4 years ago

I got this rose from an old (at least from before 1920) garden behind a cottage in our neighborhood. The garden had been neglected for decades, but when I got permission to go into it, it was overgrown, but I found Niles Cochet, Belle Portugaise, banksia lutea, and of course Cecile Brunner, blooming happily.

I love the way it has dark raspberry outer petals, and cream colored ones in the middle. That is always the coloring; it does not change over time.

Jackie

Featured Answer

Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

4 years ago

Your plant is lovely Jackie. My blooms are darker colored here.

Comments (10)

jacqueline9CA
Original Author
4 years ago
Thanks Sheila - that is so interesting. The buds on mine are the same color as yours, but as soon as they start opening the inside is lighter. I think I saw one bloom the color of yours a few years ago - maybe it is the weather and the soil, who knows? One of the reasons I love old roses!

Jackie
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does anyone grow 'niles cochet' ???
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Niles Cochet = Red Maman Cochet. This is a sport of Maman Cochet, isolated in Niles, CA (near present day Fremont). In CALIFORNIA, with a long growing season, this rose (and all of the Cochets) can easily reach 10-12 feet. Here is a photo of an old Niles Cochet, in San Juan Bautista, CA.: This plant was somewhere between 10 and 12 feet tall in this photo. Its size varies annually with the amount of pruning it receives. (Less is better, with Teas.) In New York, with a shorter growing season and a colder winter, I believe Tea Roses do not reach the proportions we commonly see out here. That's probably the source of the confusion. Jeri Jennings
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Hi Jeri and THANKS for your answer. As far as I understand english, I imagine you suggested me not to be so hasty in identifying a rose. The fact is that when Cass published her very illustrative picture, the Â´Niles CochetÂ´ rose looked exactly the same than the rose my grandfather grows. Of course it could be a bit daring of me confirming the identification, but I had been taking actions such as reading many times the HMF website concerning Â´Niles CochetÂ´rose, the Â´Vintage GardensÂ´ site where a great amount of roses are published, as well as my grandfatherÂ´s valuable tales, bases in more than 60 years growing roses. Anyway, I am new in this forum and do not take part of it very often, so it could have been a mistake from me. In that case, sorry for it! Once more THANKS for your help and keep in touch! Mariano. ps.: THANKS for the story of Â´Sarah MoonÂ´, I have already read it yesterday night while looking for Â´Sarah MoonÂ´rose in HMF.
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How's Maman Cochet in the Humid South?
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Well, in the Gulf Coast I'm not, but is the Space Coast okay? :) Maman Cochet has been in my garden for a year and a half, ownroots from Chamblees. It's done very well. The flowers are breathtaking, I love the form and how it just keeps unfurling! It will ball some when it rains, but not enough to bother me. I spray my garden for blackspot so my specimen is clean, but I have the feeling it's probably a lot more resistant than many modern HTs. Fragrance--I don't smell tea-scent very well, so to me it's scentless. Still, the color and form make it a keeper. I hope this helped... Elaine
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bart - to answer your question about my Niles Cochet (which I believe is a color sport of MC), what I meant by "a little balling in the Spring" (sorry I was not more clear) was that, if our Spring (which here is Feb - May) is damp or drizzly for several days, or rainy, NC does ball. However, mostly our Springs are very clear and dry after March, so she does not ball then. So, it all depends on the weather. When she does ball, I usually just cut off the offending blooms, and then when the weather clears up she puts out more flowers. She repeats a lot during our hot dry summers, and then there is no problem with balling. The Fall flush is also usually fine. In case the info is of any use, my plant of NC is a rooted cutting off a bush growing a block away from my house which is in the neglected old garden of a cottage which is over 100 years old, and was owned by the same family for 90+ years. The old garden is full of old roses - I noticed banksia lutea, Belle Portugaise, some sort of china, and of course Cecile Brunner, in addition to the very large mature bush of NC. About 15 years ago the very elderly man of the original family, who still owned the cottage, knocked on my front door wanting to know if my FIL still lived there - he used to play with him when they were children around 1920! Jackie
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Rosefolly
4 years ago
Thanks for the inspiration. I planted one several years ago but I am still waiting for it to take off. Maybe this will be the year it happens.
comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Didn't Jeri have a huge Niles in that historic rose garden she designed and was helping restore? I seem to remember it looked pretty red from a distance but with contrasting pale colour on the inside of the petals...

I do like the way the deep pink of the petals on your rose, Jackie, harmonises with the pink/purple of the young foliage. :-)
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
I love Niles Cochet. I have a baby thats growing very well. Its just as healthy as my Maman C & White Maman C climbers.

My Niles is also lighter like Jackie's. The cream parts range from cream to more light pinkish then the outer petal darker pinks. I hope it grows up to be as beautiful.

Maybe its lighter due to more heat?
jacqueline9CA
Original Author
4 years ago
It is so interesting about the dark color blooms - Sheila, does your bush always put out only those dark blooms, or do they vary when the weather gets warmer? I looked at the photos on HMF, and only one photo (Cass posted it, and said the bloom was "unusually dark") was that color. The rest were lighter in the middle.

Sultry_jasmine - I am sure yours will be gorgeous - it is a gorgeous rose.

Rosefolly - it is a tea rose, so sometimes they take a while to get going. How old is yours, and does it get good sun and water?

Jackie
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
4 years ago
Jackie, I am not sure what my Niles will do now. My plant does seem to consistently have darker blooms but is newish. I'm thinking I got him from rosepetals. I'll have to see what happens this year. He is a gorgeous plant, but darker than yours so far.
Alana8aSC
4 years ago
I got mine from Rose Petals too Shelia! It will be interesting to watch how it turns out! I actually am getting for tge darker blooms. I get it in Spring, so it will be a new baby! So exiting!
jerijen
4 years ago
'Niles Cochet'
nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
4 years ago
Gorgeous pictures everyone, and I can't wait to see my Niles Cochet bloom this year. I was just out puttering in that area of the garden and both Niles and Maman Cochet have not only survived the zone 5 winter (a relatively mild one this year) but have a fair bit of surviving cane. Speaking as one who has zone pushed a lot of roses, including a good dozen teas that died or limped along, the Cochet family of teas looks to be the hardiest I've tried. Maman is at least 8 years old and blooms off and on during the season. I can only dream of teas like the one Jeri pictured but for other insane cold zone pushers the Cochet family is the most likely one in my experience to try.

And they're lovely teas as well!
Cynthia

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