You can find notations for all of BenM's OC colors here: https://thelandofcolor.com/get-color-notations/benjamin-moore-oc-color-notations/

The search actually works very well.

Extra White. It's one of my favorite whites because it's pretty and it's simple. It's SW's untinted base - which means you can go in and grab a can fast and no margin for error in tinting because it's not tinted.

Plus you can go back and get more and not worry about it matching. The color of the white base is critical to mixing other colors which is why EW is always consistent. If it's been a while since you bought EW, always ask when/if there was a reformulation because it could have changed.

And for ceilings the painter was going to use the wall color for the ceiling and then others tell me to use the trim color (in flat). What is best?

Neither is best. It's a matter of preference. If it's a ceiling 9ft or more, I like color. If it's 8ft or less, I like it white. Just need to decide what works for you.

And that brings up yet another question as to what is typically done for the closets – the wall or trim color (and in what sheen)? I’m thinking the trim color then if wall color is changed down the road the closets wouldn’t have to be repainted.

Exactly. White closets function better from a seeing/visual ergonomics perspective. Trim is usually at least a satin and that works great in a closet; higher gloss works in a closet because it is more durable, tougher than matte or flat.

Wow thank you so much for all this great info @Lori A. Sawaya! So very helpful. I'm going from honey oak cabinets, doors, trim to white - needing the fresh change but having some heart palpitations thinking I'm going to need sunglasses LOL. I plan to do a provincial or dark walnut stain on the floors so that will give me some nice contrast.

I read about chroma needing to be at least .20 difference for it to pop and/or make one look dirty - am I right or does that just apply to when using multiple whites? Ashwood (.94) and Halo (. 82) seem to be nearly identical from the numbers listed above. And the Extra White is (.32). If I'm understanding this right the EW will really stand out since the difference is way more than .20? Or with the EW being really neither a cool or a warm it's not going to scream white and take the focus off a softer wall color? As for the marble, will the EW be a safe bet when working with white marbles in their various whites - grayer/whiter? I think I'm trying too hard to match it and none of them seemed quite right.

As for the ceilings, all rooms on the main floor are 8' except for the family room/entry which is 16' but the kitchen is open to the family room. With a mix of heights like that maybe it's best just to do the white (in flat). And for the closets, have them carry the semi-gloss white into the closet.

As for the ceilings, all rooms on the main floor are 8' except for the family room/entry which is 16' but the kitchen is open to the family room. With a mix of heights like that maybe it's best just to do the white (in flat). And for the closets, have them carry the semi-gloss white into the closet.

Agree. Whenever you can edit and simplify a color plan, the entire paint project is easier.

@Lori A. Sawaya Am I understanding the chroma correctly in my notes above? With way more than .20 between EW and Ashwood or Halo is the white going to be screaming bright and take away from the softness of the wall color or with the EW being neither warm nor cool it's just going to be fresh and light? And the EW will work with all white marbles?

@Lori A. Sawaya All this is so interesting .... I subscribed to your Land of Color and looking forward to learning more about color DNA so in the future I'm not stressing if I'm picking the right colors. But for now, the painter needs my choices early next week so I very much appreciate the info you have shared with me!

Or with the EW being really neither a cool or a warm it's not going to scream white and take the focus off a softer wall color?

There's a high probability that EW will be perceived as warmer compared to other colors and other colors of white.

Because warm and Cool is a matter of context. Psychological color temperature is not an inherent attribute of color like hue, value, chroma and LRV.

The only way to determine warm or cool is by comparison. For example, in order to organize a color in to the Munsell color system and assign it a Munsell hue, value, chroma notation, we have to first compare it to all the other colors in the Munsell system - 3,500 ish colors.

Then we can figure out what hue family it belongs to, where within its hue family it belongs according to its value and chroma. Munsell means we're putting color in order by all 3 dimensions, hue, value and chroma.

So, the warm and cool designation for Extra White you see on this infographic was determined by comparing it to a boatload of other colors in the Munsell color atlas. Which means the warm/cool designations you see here have excellent probability of holding true in context of a real room's contents and lighting.

As for the marble, will the EW be a safe bet when working with white marbles in their various whites - grayer/whiter?

IMO, yes. Because it's a comfortably neutral white.

I think I'm trying too hard to match it and none of them seemed quite right.

Probably. Too much emphasis is put on "matching" colors exactly. It's more reasonable and actually looks better IMO if colors relate, share a thread or two of relationship vs. matching.

We we're posting at the same time - I think I got all your Qs.

@Lori A. Sawaya Yes you did answer them all!! Thank you for calming my Extra White fears ;) After looking at the wheel above no wonder I was seeing a difference between EW, PW and Snowbound. Thank you again and I'll be exploring your Land of Color!

no wonder I was seeing a difference between EW, PW and Snowbound

Yes, they are different. Don't pay attention to any of the blogs that say they're a "blue white" or have a "blue undertone." because the absolutely do not. Paint colors do not have undertones at all but that's another post for another day.

It's possible because of context and lighting conditions any color white could look bluish because they are so low in chroma/colorfulness - but they are not inherently, conclusively, statically "blue".

I can count on one hand the number of white paint colors from 30 different brands that actually belong to the blue hue family - there are very few.

From an artist perspective there are blue whites and Extra White would be considered a blue white. snowbound would be considered a taupe white and pure white a gray white. What color does the white appear compared to a true white. In major paint brands Chantilly Lace is probably the best comparative to use as your true white.

If I had to choose a white with Halo / Ashwood (green grays, I would not choose one of these whites. My first choice would be Whitetail, my second would be Alabaster.

My suggestion is to create large samples (9x12) of Halo, Ashwood and each of the whites. Take them outside on a clear day around 2:00 in the afternoon and look at the whites, one or two at a time with Halo and Ashwood and pick the one that looks best with your colors. Full spectrum, natural daylight is the best light to really be able to see how colors compare.

I use 140 lb water color paper - you can get 30 sheets at Micheal's for 11.99 or you can get foam core around $3.00 for a sheet.

What color does the white appear compared to a true white.

This is a common mistake.

Change the light and you change how color looks is color 101 but I've never seen Extra White look "blue white" - not once in the hundreds of homes and ten years I've been specifying it.

Never compare color against a white background because the contrast effect it creates skews perception of every dimension of color making it difficult - if not impossible - to read hue correctly.

If you can't use color notations to get a quick, accurate read on color then the best way to judge color is against a grayish back ground. It doesn't have to be perfectly neutral gray, just not as bright as white - almost anything is better than white.

It's also helpful to compare color to saturated hue parents which are easy to find in every paint chip rack. Similar to this.

Doesn't matter how neutral, how little discernible hue there is, as soon as you see a color next to its hue parent, you know it. No visual gymnastics involved.

The best color to judge whether a color of white does indeed belong to the blue hue family is Lily White 2128-70 from Benjamin Moore. It's one of the few white paint colors out there that is legit categorized in the blue hue family.

I use LCH and am very familiar with how it works.

Some would have you believe it is the perfect science, some, like myself, say it is not perfect and although it measures colors perfectly, the interpretation of the numbers is not completely clear cut.

All of these have a hue of 90. 90 degree hue is the center point for yellow.

Does the level of chroma change the hue? No it does not, but it certainly changes the way I would describe the color, if I am seeing yellow or seeing more gray and the more gray the more blue or green the color appears.

____________________

Do you see any colors you would consider more blue than yellow? Per the LCH Hue the highest hue is 146 degrees or a 10 GY.

As a reference Yellow =90, Green=162, Blue=234

Computer screens can display colors differently, so to be sure please take your fan deck outside and look at it in full spectrum daylight. If you don't have a fan deck borrow one the next time you go to Sherwin Williams. Take it outside and look at it in full spectrum daylight and see for yourself.

I don't have the desire to actually go out and survey people to find out the answer- but my gut tells me that 90% or more would say that Rhinestone is blue and that 90% of people would see baby blue walls if they painted their home with SW Rhinestone.

Closets can be white, if you choose to.

Paint

labor

Texture

if I am seeing yellow or seeing more gray and the more gray the more blue or green the color appears.

..... to you.

That's the actual color appearance according to your color acuity which is defined by the context your viewing the color and the lighting where YOU are.

Some people would describe how those colors actually look to them the same as you - they would agree.

But some won't.

Because they're viewing the colors in a different context and lighting than you.

For example, comparing Extra White or Rhinestone to Lily White makes it easy to see why they belong to the Green-Yellow and Green hue families respectively. In context of a color that is factually blue, they are unlikely to look blue.

We have to leave room for how other people see color in their actual space - which is different from you.

Acknowledging that actual color perception is different from factual color, not only leaves room for everyone's perception of color but it also provides an elastic framework to manage the fact that color appearance is not static.

How Jennifer sees color is actual color. It's a real. A completely validate-able and worthy of acknowledgement thing.

LCh is the factual color framework we use to manage the diversity in color acuity person to person, context to context, lighting scenario to lighting scenario.

@Lori A. Sawaya Can you help me understand the chromas for Ashwood and Halo - these are pretty light colors but have a chroma # that is quite a bit higher from other lighter colors by quite a bit. Does this mean they are more saturated even though a light color? I painted a piece of baseboard in EW and put it up to a wall I've painted in Ashwood. It is a nice clean bright white. Would a neutral with a lower chroma # make any difference in the pop of white from the EW? And "if" I'm able to get my painter to use a trim color from BM vs SW what would you suggest to go with Ashwood or Halo?

I painted a piece of baseboard in EW and put it up to a wall I've painted in Ashwood. It is a nice clean bright white.

Yes, it is.

"if" I'm able to get my painter to use a trim color from BM vs SW what would you suggest to go with Ashwood or Halo?

The ever-so-exciting..... White OC-151.

It's BenM's untinted base and I like it for the same reasons I like EW. OC-151 flies under the radar. I never paid attention to it until Beth H. brought it up.

Can you help me understand the chromas for Ashwood and Halo - these are pretty light colors but have a chroma # that is quite a bit higher from other lighter colors by quite a bit.

Does this mean they are more saturated even though a light color?

Yes.

Light colors can be very Chromatic.

Or we can say colorful. Chroma is a quantity and tells you how much color and colorfulness tells you what it looks like.

Summer Sun is a good example. Summer Sun is very colorful.

We're comparing Summer Sun and Bone China.

Value is highlighted in green.

Summer Sun Value 8.5, Bone China is 9.0 - they're close in Value.

Chroma is highlighted in pink.

Summer Sun super high Chroma of 12.3 yet Bone China is super low at 0.9.

They look dramatically different primarily because of Chroma even tho they are similar in both Hue and Value.

Would a neutral with a lower chroma # make any difference in the pop of white from the EW?

Maybe.

The bigger the difference in Chroma between the trim and wall color, the more dramatic the relationship between the two colors - it's more contrast.

More contrast is perceived as more "pop".

OC-151 White's Chroma is 0.18.

It's less than EW's Chroma of 0.32 so you can test your "pop" theory and see what you think with a lower Chroma White.

Lori, have you found you get good coverage from Extra White? I love it, and I’ve used it on a few small projects, so it didn’t matter when I needed to paint 3-5 coats. However, I switched to Decorator’s white on a built in because I just couldn’t get extra white to cover. My other go-to is Super White, and I’ve noticed it needs 3 coats but with decorator’s white I never need more than 2. Do you think that is unusual? Or is this a negligible difference to most people in the grand scheme of things, especially if they’re using professional painters? Normally I wouldn’t be too worried about it but coming across your recommendation for use on a ceiling really resonates with my past experience as far as color, it just clicks, and I hadn’t even considered it. I don’t want to be stuck doing 5 coats on a ceiling, though!

Whites typically don't hide well. 3 coats is not unusual because there's no colorant in the can and colorant helps with hide.

You can try asking them to add a shot of white colorant. It doesn't change the color but some - not all - feel it does help with hide.

I think Decorator's has a shot of black or gray (don't quote me because I do not pay attention to formulas) but it could explain why it hides better compared to the other colors.