SC debate - is Bernie ready?

Ann

I expect Bernie will be the receiver of a high majority of the challenges tonight. Bernie better be well rested and ready because I think this will be one of the most challenging and exhausting debates he'll ever face. We'll see how he does.

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Ann

I'm really looking forward to watching but will be two hours behind because I'll be away from a TV during the exact 2 hours of the debate. I've got my recording set up.

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Ann

Warren will be interesting because she's clearly very effective in challenge mode, as she demonstrated last week with Bloomberg. But, will she go after Bernie that much or will she have a potential VP spot in her mind?

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foodonastump

I guess we’ll see. Two hours before you. ;)

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catkinZ8a

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-major-plans/

College for All and Cancel Student Debt

It will cost $2.2 trillion to make public colleges, universities and trade schools tuition-free and to cancel all student debt over the next decade. It is fully paid for by a modest tax on Wall Street speculation that will raise an estimated $2.4 trillion over ten years. Click here to read the plan.

Expanding Social Security

Bernie’s bill to expand Social Security will increase benefits for low-income senior citizens and people with disabilities by more than $1,300 a year. It is fully paid for by making the wealthiest 1.8 percent of Americans – those with incomes over $250,000 a year – pay the same rate into Social Security as working families.

This bill will also extend the solvency of Social Security into the year 2070 – ensuring that Social Security can pay every benefit owed to every eligible American for the next 50 years.

Click here to read the plan.

Housing for All

Bernie’s proposal to guarantee housing as a human right and to eliminate homelessness will cost $2.5 trillion over the next decade. It is fully paid for by a wealth tax on the top one-tenth of one percent – those who have a net worth of at least $32 million. (Bernie’s wealth tax will raise a total of $4.35 trillion.)

Click here to read Bernie's plan to tax on extreme wealth.

Universal Childcare/Pre-K

Bernie’s proposal to guarantee universal childcare and pre-school to every family in America who needs it will cost $1.5 trillion. It is fully paid for by a wealth tax on the top 0.1 percent – those who have a net worth of at least $32 million. (Bernie’s wealth tax will raise a total of $4.35 trillion.)

Click here to read the tax plan.

Eliminating Medical Debt

Bernie has introduced a proposal to eliminate all of the $81 billion in past due medical debt held by 79 million Americans. It is fully paid for by establishing an income inequality tax on large corporations that pay CEOs at least 50 times more than average workers. .

Click here to read the tax plan.

Green New Deal

The $16.3 trillion climate change proposal that Bernie has introduced will fundamentally transform our energy system away from fossil fuel and towards energy efficiency and renewable energy. It will also create 20 million good-paying union jobs in the process.

It is fully paid for by:

  • Raising $3.085 trillion by making the fossil fuel industry pay for their pollution, through litigation, fees, and taxes, and eliminating federal fossil fuel subsidies.
  • Generating $6.4 trillion in revenue from the wholesale of energy produced by the regional Power Marketing Administrations. This revenue will be collected from 2023-2035, and after 2035 electricity will be virtually free, aside from operations and maintenance costs.
  • Reducing defense spending by $1.215 trillion by scaling back military operations on protecting the global oil supply.
  • Collecting $2.3 trillion in new income tax revenue from the 20 million new jobs created by the plan.
  • Saving $1.31 trillion by reduced the need for federal and state safety net spending due to the creation of millions of good-paying, unionized jobs.
  • Raising $2 trillion in revenue by making large corporations pay their fair share of taxes.

Key Points:

  • By averting climate catastrophe we will save: $2.9 trillion over 10 years, $21 trillion over 30 years and $70.4 trillion over 80 years.
  • If we do not act, the U.S. will lose $34.5 trillion by the end of the century in economic productivity.

Click here to read the tax plan.

Medicare for All

According to a February 15, 2020 study by epidemiologists at Yale University, the Medicare for All bill that Bernie wrote would save over $450 billion in health care costs and prevent 68,000 unnecessary deaths – each and every year.

Since 2016, Bernie has proposed a menu of financing options that would more than pay for the Medicare for All legislation he has introduced according to the Yale study.

These options include:

  • Creating a 4 percent income-based premium paid by employees, exempting the first $29,000 in income for a family of four.

In 2018, the typical working family paid an average of $6,015 in premiums to private health insurance companies. Under this option, a typical family of four earning $60,000, would pay a 4 percent income-based premium to fund Medicare for All on income above $29,000 – just $1,240 a year – saving that family $4,775 a year. Families of four making less than $29,000 a year would not pay this premium.

(Revenue raised: About $4 trillion over 10 years.)

  • Imposing a 7.5 percent income-based premium paid by employers, exempting the first $1 million in payroll to protect small businesses.

In 2018, employers paid an average of $14,561 in private health insurance premiums for a worker with a family of four. Under this option, employers would pay a 7.5 percent payroll tax to help finance Medicare for All – just $4,500 – a savings of more than $10,000 a year.

(Revenue raised: Over $5.2 trillion over 10 years.)

  • Eliminating health tax expenditures, which would no longer be needed under Medicare for All.

(Revenue raised: About $3 trillion over 10 years.)

  • Raising the top marginal income tax rate to 52% on income over $10 million.

(Revenue raised: About $700 billion over 10 years.)

  • Replacing the cap on the state and local tax deduction with an overall dollar cap of $50,000 for a married couple on all itemized deductions.

(Revenue raised: About $400 billion over 10 years.)

  • Taxing capital gains at the same rates as income from wages and cracking down on gaming through derivatives, like-kind exchanges, and the zero tax rate on capital gains passed on through bequests.

(Revenue raised: About $2.5 trillion over 10 years.)

  • Enacting the For the 99.8% Act, which returns the estate tax exemption to the 2009 level of $3.5 million, closes egregious loopholes, and increases rates progressively including by adding a top tax rate of 77% on estate values in excess of $1 billion.

(Revenue raised: $336 billion over 10 years.)

  • Enacting corporate tax reform including restoring the top federal corporate income tax rate to 35 percent.

(Revenue raised: $3 trillion ,of which $1 trillion would be used to help finance Medicare for All and $2 trillion would be used for the Green New Deal.)

  • Using $350 billion of the amount raised from the tax on extreme wealth to help finance Medicare for All.
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mudhouse

Yes, it will be interesting to see how many people address some of the details in the plan Sanders released last night. No doubt advisors and moderators are going over the new material. I know debates aren't structured for in-depth conversations, but I'll be very disappointed if some of the above proposals aren't brought up.

It's time for people to get a better understanding of just what Bernie has in mind.

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queenmargo

Hopefully Joe will know what state he is in.

I wonder which Joe Biden will show up, lol?

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queenmargo

Truthfully, the more I learn about Bernie, I hope Bloomberg knocks him out.

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Nana H

Warren as a VP pick seems highly unlikely to me nor do I think she would want it. Commerce maybe.

However, I think she may back off Bernie and stay focused on Bloomberg for ideological reasons.

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queenmargo

Warren would be like toilet paper on a shoe. Can you imagine trying to shake her off once she got started. She would NOT be a good VP.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

I hope Bernie has strong showing.

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Ann

Margo, I think there is only one Biden - the quite confused one.

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HU-885118952

I think the candidates will target Bernie like crazy. They'll shift their stance from initially trying to out-leftie and out-socialist Bernie, to moderate and make him look like the crazy communist he is.

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Ann

Yup HU52, that's what they're doing.

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catkinZ8a







It’s cynical & maybe a little “tinfoil hat” to suggest Bloomberg hired people to cheer & clap for him at the debate. Couldn’t they merely be a concentration of concerned voters who believe in his policies & had thousands of dollars to spend on debate tickets?



________________________________


The DNC charged $1,750 for the seats up front at the debate.




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sableincal

It's not just that Bernie is as mad as a hatter; he is a bona fide jackrearend-of-a-small- equine. Why would he throw away Florida, which he did by praising Castro's literacy program (although it seems that 80% of Cubans could read even before Fidel took over)? It's the TRUTH, he bellowed, even though it was irrelevant and nobody cared. All he did was irritate all those people who gained freedom by making a 90-mile swim. He came across as grouchy and unpleasant.

I thought that Klobuchar was miles ahead of Warren in her presentation and general coolth. I could picture her in the Oval Office, picture her wrangling a gaggle of reporters, picture her working with foreign leaders. She was the most clear of those on the stage and was the most professional in demeanor.


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althea_gw

Dumbest debate yet. It was was so boring with most candidates monopolizing time, shouting over those who were speaking, I yawned & yawned, then went to bed early.

Even within the parameters set by big donors, Bernie did great and was the only honest one there. He spoke difficult truths and did so eloquently.

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HU-885118952

Bernie deflected and filibustered all pointed questions. Very disappointing he could not take them on directly. Surprisingly poor performance, imo, especially how he "Really? Really?" when the audience dared boo'd his Marxist ideology.

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HU-885118952

sableincal, agree with everything you posted. The winner was Klobuchar, but a country mile.

The whole thing was otherwise a cluster of chaos, blame, anger, regressive policies, anti-capitalism, victimsplaining and pandering.

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paprikash

Bloomberg admitted to buying the House for the dems — what a weasel

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HU-885118952

Yes, why is no one talking about how Bloomberg boasted about buying the House majority?

Pfft...so much for getting big money out of politics. They take the money just like the rest of them.

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queenmargo

You certainly can tell by the low level of participation from the left how things went on that debate, lol. I howled a few times, and managed to stay the course of the whole 2 hour debate. I love to laugh and while chaotic it was funny ;))

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queenmargo

OH, and how fun that Bloomberg got air time during the commercial breaks lol lol.. got money?

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HU-885118952

queenmargo, evidently we've watched the debates far more closely, as evidenced by the comments during and after each debate.

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queenmargo

Yes,952, they don't care.

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queenmargo

Then there was the parting question. What is the misconception about you? Biden with his hair remark, was a goats meme in my mind, lol

Bloomberg tried to be funny with his short joke, but it bombed.

Bernie was in denial about being a radical

Warren must read a lot of anorexia comments about her. She had to qualify that she does eat

funny stuff

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socks(10a)

I do not think the debate was well administered by CBS. The first 20 minutes were spent with Warren picking at Bloomberg. We have many critical issues so why waste time on something Bloomberg may have said long ago? Sometimes all of them were talking at once. Otherwise I enjoyed it more than previous debates. It’s getting more interesting now. I like Amy but is she tough enough to manage a debate with a babbling out of-control liar who may stalk her around the stage?

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foodonastump

Why do people think Amy is boring? I find her the most likable person on stage. Certainly not the largest personality out there, but I don’t think that a negative.

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HU-885118952

Warren must read a lot of anorexia comments about her. She had to qualify that she does eat

I thought that comment was odd, but perhaps she does get comments about her weight. I thought a more apt response would have been that she's really not a Cherokee Indian and really has no clue how to make an omelette.

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HU-885118952

I like Amy but is she tough enough to manage a debate with a babbling out of-control liar who may stalk her around the stage?

Anyone who can't handle Trump walking around the stage will crumble in a debate with him. And interesting that you singled out the woman with that comment.

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queenmargo

Speaking of stalking, I could totally see Warren chasing Trump around the stage lol lol, think of the visual lol

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foodonastump

”And interesting that you singled out the woman with that comment.”

^^^

I believe the reason for singling out the woman can be found in “I like Amy.”

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mudhouse

Then there was the parting question. What is the misconception about
you? Biden with his hair remark, was a goats meme in my mind, lol

I agree Margo, and I thought the final question fit the rest of the bad moderation. They handed the candidates a problem instead of giving them a good opportunity.

The personal motto part of the question wasn't bad, but I thought asking people to correct a misconception about themselves was too cute by half. It's really hard to come up with a good answer without sounding like you're bragging, and nobody knew what to do with it. Hair? Diet? Boring? Height? Blech.

Instead of that missed opportunity, I'd much rather give everyone a chance to single out an important policy, or a critical concern, or one thought about the country's future (that's why I watch these things.) The CBS mods could have given the Dems a better hand up; I don't know why they didn't.

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HU-885118952

Uh huh

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HU-885118952

Imagine how productive a Dem debate could be if they let the best in the biz-FOX- conduct one. The rest are amateurs in comparison.


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mudhouse

HU952, I agreed with your thoughts about Bernie's reaction to the booing. It must be hard to learn how to handle that, but yelling "Really? Really?" just sounded angry and defensive.

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mudhouse

HU952, yes, and refusing to let Fox do a debate makes the Dems look like they have no interest in explaining their viewpoints to anyone but their existing base.

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foodonastump

...but I thought asking people to correct a misconception about themselves was too cute by half. It's really hard to come up with a good answer without sounding like you're bragging...

Yeah I saw someone liken it to that interview question, “what is your greatest weakness” where you’re supposed to twist it into a positive. “I’m too much of a workaholic, focusing all my energy on my job.” Barf.

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olliesmom

If I have to hear one more "story" from Warren. Ugh! She just grates my nerves. Worse than Kamala Harris did. I mostly FF (I recorded it) through Warren and Buttigieg and Klobuchar. Also FF through Biden, I just feel sorry for him and to watch him fumble through his words, is just awful.

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Ann

"Then there was the parting question. What is the misconception about you? Biden with his hair remark, was a goats meme in my mind, lol"

Perfect!

ETA: Actually, the rest of this longer comment was great too! The audience reaction to most of them might have made the goats meme apply almost across the board.

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Ann

HU52, no kidding about Fox News. Let Wallace, MacCallum, and Baier moderate and they'd do far, far better!

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Ann

Olliesmom, I feel the same way about Warren now. Nearly every comment of hers drew an eye roll from me when she began (in her same beginning manner despite the topic).

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Ann

I just looked at Predictit and Biden got quite a significant boost in many a state following last night.

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haydayhayday

If there was a "winner", it looks to be Biden:

Looks to be mostly same ole, same ole, otherwise.

(Cross posted with Ann.)

Hay

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foodonastump

I wonder what percentage of viewers had some play on “Native American” dancing through their heads when the misconception question got to Warren.

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haydayhayday

FOAS:

"Yeah I saw someone liken it to that interview question, “what is your greatest weakness”"

My favorite Joke!

The interviewee answers: "My uncompromising honesty."

Interviewer: "Honesty? I can't imagine that your honesty could be a weakness".

Interviewee: "Quite frankly, I don't care what you think"

Hay

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haydayhayday

FOAS:

"Why do people think Amy is boring? I find her the most likable person on stage. Certainly not the largest personality out there, but I don’t think that a negative."

Funny.

Hay


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haydayhayday

Amy, on her way down to the footnotes of history.

Hay

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catkinZ8a

SLATE with the smackdown:

History, it’s said, repeats itself first as tragedy, and then as f—[LOUD CROSSTALK] [LOUD CROSSTALK] SENATOR, THAT IS— [GARBLED] WHAT HE SAID IS ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE [SHOUTING] FIDEL CASTRO [BOOING] DENMARK!?!?! [CHEERING] CANDIDATES! CANDIDATES! PLEASE RESPECT THE RULES—

Sorry! Got carried away there in the manner of Tuesday’s Democratic debate in Charleston, South Carolina—a sequel to last Wednesday’s eventful contest in Las Vegas that went a little too heavy on the original’s much-praised fighting spirit. While the Las Vegas debate’s confrontations about high-stakes subjects were entertaining and informative for voters who might still be trying to differentiate between candidates, Charleston’s could probably best be summarized by this heroically transcribed stretch during which Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders talked over each other about whether the latter’s comments about Castro’s Cuba betrayed an unacceptable sympathy for radicalism:

CBS MODERATOR MARGARET BRENNAN: Sen. Sanders, your response.

SANDERS: Let us be clear, do we think health care for all, Pete, is some kind of radical communist idea?

(CROSSTALK)

BUTTIGIEG: Well, you brought this up, let’s talk about that.

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: Do we think raising the minimum wage to a living wage…

(CROSSTALK)

BUTTIGIEG: I’m happy to respond to the question because this is really important…

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: … do we think building the millions of units of affordable housing that we need…

(CROSSTALK)

BUTTIGIEG: If you’re going to ask that rhetorical question, let’s…

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: … do we think raising taxes on billionaires is a radical idea?

(CROSSTALK)

BUTTIGIEG: Let’s talk about this. Let’s talk about what’s radical about that plan.

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: Do you think criminal justice reform is a radical idea?

(CROSSTALK)

BUTTIGIEG: The things you just named are things…

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: Do you think immigration reform? The truth is, Pete…

(CROSSTALK)

BRENNAN: One at a time.

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: … the American people support my agenda.

(CROSSTALK)

BUTTIGIEG: The way you’re talking about doing it is radical by…

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: That is why I am beating Trump in virtually every poll that is done, and why I will defeat him.

(CROSSTALK)

BUTTIGIEG: We’ve got to open this up. Universal health care, for example…

(At this point, Brennan moved on to Klobuchar, who got into her own fight with Sanders by calling him “alienating.”)

Is “candidate’s position on 1960s Cuba” going to be a top-of-mind concern on Super Tuesday? Probably not. Should Sanders have judiciously dropped the subject instead of stubbornly insisting that you can praise Fidel Castro’s literacy programs while deploring his human rights record? Probably. Was Buttigieg’s hippie/red-baiting disingenuous, and did he get so carried away with it that he accidentally ended up denouncing the civil rights movement? Definitely. But did that stop either of them from talking at the other peevishly? Nope!

A large part of this was the fault of CBS’s moderators, who seemed to be goading the candidates into arguing while being completely unprepared to deal with their argumentativeness. In the first hour of the debate they asked Joe Biden why his poll numbers are slipping with black voters, then brought up, for the nth time, the issue of whether Sanders can really pay for “Medicare for All”—two non-illuminating “electability” subjects that don’t advance anyone’s understanding of racial inequities or medical costs but do provide a trigger for everyone onstage to butt in with a prepared sound bite about their own case for beating Donald Trump.

But just as big of a problem was the sheer number of Democrats trying to make their case, which was higher this week than last because self-funding progressive investor Tom Steyer, who’d missed the cut for Las Vegas, qualified for Charleston at the last minute. Sanders is leading the field, but he’s an unorthodox front-runner whose socialist self-labeling leads many in the party to fear a general election wipeout; he’s followed by four other candidates who are within seven points of each other and two who have just enough support to convince themselves that they should hang around in case everyone else self-defenestrates. None of these people have an incentive to do the above-the-fray, confident thing; they’re all trying to convey as urgently as possible that they are the candidate who is forceful, compelling, reasonable, empathetic, and inspiring enough to deserve your vote. There is just no way for seven people to do that in two hours without repeatedly trying to shove everyone else out of the way, especially when they all come prepared, because of last week’s explosiveness, to do a lot of shoving.

There were some moments of usefully clear communication. Elizabeth Warren talked about her own life-disrupting early-20s pregnancy before bringing up the allegation, from an employee lawsuit, that Michael Bloomberg once recommended that a subordinate “kill” her own fetus. (He denies it, though the Washington Post found a corroborating witness.) Pete Buttigieg compared the filibuster-enabled blockade of gun legislation to South Carolina white supremacist Strom Thurmond’s blockade of desegregation laws, gave an answer about supporting public education that was nicely tied to his husband’s job as a teacher, and generally seemed less frantic than everyone else even when he was doing his interrupting. Joe Biden, who otherwise responded to every question by BARKING INDIGNANTLY ABOUT HOW HE GOT THINGS DONE WITH OBAMA, got Sanders to admit that he’d cast a “bad vote” when he helped defeat a bill that would have allowed gun manufacturers to be held liable for harm caused by their products. Even Bloomberg, after his now-ritual humiliation by Warren, gave sensible-sounding answers about public health and marijuana.

These moments happened during brief periods of calm that emerged in the tumult of the debate’s first hour or so. In the second hour, the moderators mostly got the crosstalk under control, but only by going from candidate to candidate asking perplexingly pointed gotcha questions about relatively minor issues, as if to help hypothetical opponents nail them with negative ads about their weakness and lack of patriotism. The looming threat of a coronavirus pandemic was barely mentioned, and when it was, it was brought up not to compare the details of the candidates’s crisis-management plans, but in order to challenge Klobuchar to say whether she’d close the border to prevent infected U.S. citizens from returning home. Warren was asked skeptically to explain how removing combat troops from the Middle East would “protect America’s national security,” and then time was for some reason spent asking three candidates separately whether they would “allow Chinese firms to build critical U.S. infrastructure.” Joe Biden got asked whether he would “launch a retaliatory cyberattack” against Russia if it continued interfering in U.S. elections, and three more candidates were surveyed on whether the U.S. should move its Israeli Embassy back to Tel Aviv from Jerusalem—a subject that squeezes one of the nation’s most long-running and vexing diplomatic problems, Israeli-Palestinian relations, down to a yes/no question about a single provocative decision by the Trump administration.

With nobody in control of the debate, and with nobody able to take charge under the circumstances, the positive way to look at things is that voters in South Carolina and the Super Tuesday states will have to make their choice based on blind-flying determinations about who the best candidate would be rather than whose nomination seems most inevitable. Given the levels of indecision and self-second-guessing that the Democratic electorate has thus far demonstrated, though, it is not certain that this will actually help narrow the field by March 15, when the next debate is set to take place in Phoenix. In other words, there’s still time for Hillary, Al Gore, and newly retired Disney CEO Bob Iger to jump in the race. Just kidding! Maybe!


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/02/democratic-debate-demonstrates-there-are-too-many-democratic-candidates-left-in-the-race.html

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foodonastump

Funny.


Nothing “funny” or contradictory there. In my mind she doesn’t have “the largest” personality but she’s not dull, either.

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haydayhayday

"Nothing “funny” or contradictory there. In my mind she doesn’t have “the largest” personality but she’s not dull, either."

You're funny whether you can see it or not.


Hay

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haydayhayday

"In my mind..."

Well, you and some one other person somewhere must agree with your assessment.

Amy, on her way down to the footnotes of history."

I don't follow the details of politics that closely, but I can say that I can not name even one comment of Amy's that has stuck with me.

Not one.

I have no idea at all what she stands for or against.

And, relatively speaking, I'm "informed".

If you're not prime time Reality Show ready in today's environment, you have no shot at appealing to the masses.

The masses. Those people the "progressives" want to empower.


Hay


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foodonastump

Well “in my mind” Bloomberg is the most “boring” personality on that same stage, but yet he’s hanging onto the third spot. And he’s also a candidate that I’d like to rise up.

The biggest personality of all is Trump, and you probably know where I’d rank him.

So, if “large personality” is what floats your boat then apparently you’re in tune with much of America. Enjoy your Trump and Bernie.

Funny.

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Nana H

How I long for boring.

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Ann

"How I long for boring."

LOL! Is that why you opine so much about American politics?:) I'd think Canada and its politics would be perfect for people who truly long for boring.

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Ann

FOAS, I think the point may have been, Amy's out of this contest, regardless of who "floats your boat" or anyone else's. She's simply not floating even close to enough boats of the boats she'd need to float.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Canada and its politics would be perfect for people who truly long for boring.

Very little is boring when it directly affects you -- even politics in Colorado.


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haydayhayday

"So, if “large personality” is what floats your boat then apparently you’re in tune with much of America. Enjoy your Trump and Bernie."

Just the facts, Ma'am.

None of these candidates float my boat.

It does pay to keep your ear to the ground and stay tuned to what much of America....you know, the ones, the masses who actually vote and will be determining our future.

Just the facts, Ma'am.

Welcome to the new world.

Hay

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haydayhayday

"Welcome to the new world."

Pondering the new world this morning, I thought about, how, in the good ole days, people actually would read about candidates. Took some effort and, at least, an ability and desire to pick up a newspaper and read it.

Today, all you need to do is flip out your Apple contraption and check to see what's trending on Twitter and Facebook.

The New World.

If you're boring, no one cares about you.

Hay

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foodonastump

Yeah? Have his betting odds caught back up with Clinton yet?

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socks(10a)

Thanks, FOAS.

Amy has accomplished much more as a Senator than Bernie. She's quick-thinking, knowledgeable, intelligent, dignified and has deep experience. And she's not 78 years old. Bernie as prez will be divisive to our nation as is dt.

No one--man or woman--should be physically stalked in a debate as Hillary was. I bet she wishes she had a do-over on that one.

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HU-885118952

No one has been "physically stalked". The hyperbolic victim schtick should stop with Hillary. Any woman who can't take a man walking near her while she's trying to talk shouldn't be running for dog catcher.


I'm betting Klobuchar wouldn't get her panties in wad over it.

Warren, otoh, would tell the tall tale about Trump trying to kill her with his gaze, she's such a paranoic and habitual liar.

Why didn't anyone call her out about her pregnant firing lie? About accusing a police officer of "murdering" Michael Brown? The woman is a pathological liar. It's scary she's still in the race.


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foodonastump

pathological liar


Nah, why bother.

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HU-885118952

Oh, let's bother, mK?



February 26, 2020

Dear Senator Warren:

As concerned citizens of the Cherokee Nation, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians, and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, we recognize our responsibility to stand up for our communities: to those we claim and those who claim us.

Senator Warren, as you seek the Democratic nomination for President of the United States, your history of false claims to American Indian identity and the defense of these claims with a highly publicized DNA test continue to dog your political career. For Native Americans, this moment is more than an annoyance; it represents the most public debate about our identity in a generation. In a country where Indigenous people are mostly invisible, what Americans conclude from this debate will impact Native rights for years to come.

Whatever your intentions, your actions have normalized white people claiming to be Native, and perpetuated a dangerous misunderstanding of tribal sovereignty. Your actions do not exist in a vacuum but are part of a long and violent history. The Los Angeles Times recently reported that white members of fake “tribes” have been awarded over $800 million in no-bid federal contracts set aside for minority business owners. Rather than using evidence of Native ancestry, these fake tribes rely solely on family stories and commercial DNA tests. When you still defend yourself by stating you believed what you heard growing up, you set a harmful example for these white people stealing Native identity and resources with stories very similar to your own.

While the average American thinks of Native Americans as a racial category, we are actually political groups. Our rights are based on citizenship in sovereign Nations and those Nations’ treaty relationship to the United States. But that hasn’t stopped opponents to tribes from arguing that laws defending Native rights treat us differently based on race and therefore should be declared unconstitutional. If they win, it could be the end of tribes as we know them. By publicly equating race and biology with Native identity, your DNA test promoted the exact same logic the Right is currently using to try and destroy Native rights.

You have yet to fully address the harm you have caused. While your apologies are a step in the right direction, they have been vague and inadequate. Accountability is not just admitting you made a mistake, but working to correct the harm it caused. A recent collective statement by Cherokee scholars makes clear that any person who publicly identifies as Cherokee has initiated an open discussion about their identity. As a Harvard professor and U.S. Senator, you have the unique opportunity to turn this controversy into a needed learning moment.

As Native community members, academics, activists, scientists, writers, organizers, aunties, uncles, young people, and tribal citizens concerned about the future of Native rights, we call on you to make a clear public statement that includes the following:

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HU-885118952

As Native community members, academics, activists, scientists, writers, organizers, aunties, uncles, young people, and tribal citizens concerned about the future of Native rights, we call on you to make a clear public statement that includes the following:

  • Like many other white families, your family story of Cherokee and Delaware ancestry is false and it was wrong for you to repeat it as an adult. You have had the genealogical evidence since 2012. Stating you do not qualify for citizenship is not enough; the truth is you and your ancestors are white.
  • Equating Cherokee identity with the results of a DNA test was more than a misstep — it was dangerous. Your supporters and the public need to understand why. We ask that you explain that only tribal affiliation and kinship determine Native identity, and that equating Native identity with race and biology erodes the foundation of Indigenous sovereignty.
  • Claiming Native identity without citizenship, kinship ties, or recognition from Native communities undermines Indigenous self determination. As the most public example of this behavior, you need to clearly state that Native people are the sole authority on who is — and who is not — Native.

Native Americans come from over 574 different nations, each with our own unique histories, languages, cultures, and politics. We do not think with one mind or speak with one voice on this issue — or any other. However, Cherokee citizens are the most impacted not only by your actions but by the growing epidemic of white people claiming to be us. If you truly want to listen and change, then you need to hear all Native voices on this issue — whether or not they serve you.

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HU-885118952

You have done some good things for Indian Country during your time in political service. You have also done real harm. Right now you have the platform and the opportunity to stand firmly on the side of justice. This is not about politics or your career. This is about the well-being of our nations. The time has come for you to show true leadership and make this right.

Signed:

(Tribal affiliations listed for identification only)

1. ᏥᏍᏆ, ᏣᎳᎩ, ᏥᏍᏆ ᏣᎳᎩ/ O-gah-pah/ Wa-zha-Zhe
2. ᏩᏕ ᎦᎵᏍᎨᏫ Ryan Brandon Mackey, ᏣᎳᎩᎯ ᎠᏰᎵ Cherokee Nation
3. ᎢᏯ ᏗᎯ Candessa Tehee, Cherokee Nation
4. Adam Reese, Cherokee Nation
5. Adrienne Keene, Cherokee Nation
6. Ahyoka Youngdeer, Cherokee Nation
7. Alan Harrover, Cherokee Nation
8. Andrea L. Rogers, Cherokee Nation
9. Angi Harrover, Cherokee Nation
10. Austin Holt, Cherokee Nation
11. Benjamin Holt, Cherokee Nation
12. Betty Smoke, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
13. Bill Davis, Cherokee Nation
14. Bill Mann, Cherokee Nation
15. Billie Jo Rich, Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians
16. Billy Jack Shotpouch, Cherokee Nation
17. Brandon Morris, Cherokee Nation
18. Brandon Scott, Cherokee Nation
19. Brian K. Hudson, Cherokee Nation
20. Brian Kelly Jackson, Cherokee Nation
21. Bryan Pollard, Cherokee Nation
22. Callie Benoit, Cherokee Nation
23. Carabeth Muskrat Samuels, Cherokee Nation
24. Cassandra Lynn Cariker, Cherokee Nation
25. Cassie Snell, Cherokee Nation
26. Catherine Foreman Gray, Cherokee Nation
27. Charles Smith, Cherokee Nation
28. Charmaine Mankiller, Cherokee Nation and Pomo
29. Cheryl Nichols Brown, Cherokee Nation
30. Chris Bacon, Cherokee Nation
31. Christopher Whitmire, Cherokee Nation
32. Clara McCown, Cherokee Nation
33. Cole Hogner, Cherokee Nation
34. Courtney Logan Green Espy, Cherokee Nation
35. Courtney McCoy, Cherokee Nation
36. Cynthia Thompson, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
37. Daniel Heath Justice, Cherokee Nation
38. Daryll Mouse, Cherokee Nation
39. David Cornsilk, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians and Cherokee Nation
40. David Montgomery, Cherokee Nation
41. Deborah Fritts, Cherokee Nation
42. Deboraugh Rogers, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
43. Dennis G. Dye, Cherokee Nation
44. Dillard Pullium, Cherokee Nation
45. Elissa Lyons, Cherokee Nation
46. Forrest Stokes, Cherokee Nation
47. Gayle Samuels, Cherokee Nation
48. Geneva Brixey, Cherokee Nation
49. Grant Linihan, Cherokee Nation
50. Gunnar Hatfield, Cherokee Nation
51. Harry Styron, Cherokee Nation
52. Herb Wolf, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians and Cherokee Nation
53. Jade Day, Cherokee Nation
54. James Armontrout, Cherokee Nation
55. James Gilmartin, Cherokee Nation
56. Janet Foreman-Green, Cherokee Nation
57. Janet Kaye Backwater, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
58. Jared Edans, Cherokee Nation
59. Jeff Corntassel, Cherokee Nation
60. Jeffrey Girty, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
61. Jen Deerinwater, Cherokee Nation
62. Jennie Wilson, Cherokee Nation
63. Jennifer Anderson, Cherokee Nation
64. Jennifer Barger Johnson, Cherokee Nation
65. Jennifer Kate Thiessen, Cherokee Nation
66. Jenny Flippo, Cherokee Nation
67. Jeremie Fisher, Cherokee Nation
68. Jeremy Hamilton, Cherokee Nation
69. Jerid Miller, Cherokee Nation
70. Jerrid Grimmett, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
71. Jesse Sexton, Cherokee Nation
72. Jo Ann Tidwell, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
73. Jonathan Radocay, Cherokee Nation
74. Joseph M. Pierce, Cherokee Nation
75. Katie Jones, Cherokee Nation
76. Kevin Sac, Cherokee Nation
77. Kirby Brown, Cherokee Nation
78. Kristie Bradley, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
79. Krystal Ann William, Cherokee Nation
80. Kurt West, Cherokee Nation
81. Lianna Costantino, Cherokee Nation
82. Linda Easter, Cherokee Nation
83. Linda Sacks, Cherokee Nation
84. Mandy Adair, Cherokee Nation
85. Marcus L. Thompson, Cherokee Nation
86. Mariah Gary, Cherokee Nation
87. Mariah Gladstone, Cherokee Nation
88. Marissa Jane Cundiff, Cherokee Nation
89. Mark DeMucha, Cherokee Nation
90. Mark Downing, Cherokee Nation
91. Mary Aboud, Cherokee Nation
92. Mary Brown, Cherokee Nation
93. Mason Hudson, Cherokee Nation
94. Matthew Anderson, Cherokee Nation
95. Melissa Duggins, Cherokee Nation
96. Michael C. Lambert, Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians
97. Michael Nephew, Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians
98. Miranda Harris, Cherokee Nation
99. Mitch McClain, Cherokee Nation
100. Pam Coodey-York Fox, Cherokee Nation
101. Patricia St. Peter, Cherokee Nation and Shawnee Tribe
102. Patricia Wilson, Cherokee Nation
103. Patsy Edgar, Cherokee Nation
104. Paul Braun, Cherokee Nation
105. Rachel Peters, Cherokee Nation
106. Raymond Pettit, Cherokee Nation and Creek Nation
107. Rebecca Nagle, Cherokee Nation
108. Rhonda Lee Earp, Cherokee Nation
109. Richard D. Teel, Cherokee Nation
110. Robert Crossno, Cherokee Nation
111. Robert Easter, Cherokee Nation
112. Robin McLain Smith, Cherokee Nation
113. Roldan Sack, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
114. Ron Collett, Cherokee Nation
115. Ryley Bunch, Cherokee Nation
116. Sandee Tidwell Lovado, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
117. Sasha Walker Hudson, Cherokee Nation
118. Shanda Attika Secondi, Cherokee Nation
119. Shauna Amezcua, Cherokee Nation
120. Shea Vassar, Cherokee Nation
121. Sheila Holmes, Cherokee Nation
122. Shellie Shankle, Cherokee Nation
123. Sherri Kay Hattori, Cherokee Nation
124. Sherrie McElwee, Cherokee Nation
125. Sky Babela Wildcat, Cherokee Nation
126. Snow Matthews, Cherokee Nation and Delaware Tribe of Indians
127. Ali Sacks, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
128. Taylor Keen, Cherokee Nation
129. Thomasenia Johnson, Cherokee Nation
130. Tracey M. Keith, Cherokee Nation
131. Tricia Wickliffe, Cherokee Nation
132. Tsianina Neel, Cherokee Nation
133. Twila Barnes, Cherokee Nation
134. Valerie Leann Kagan, Cherokee Nation
135. Verna Bates, Cherokee Nation
136. Vicki Creighton, Cherokee Nation
137. Victoria M. O’Keefe, Cherokee Nation
138. Virginia Drywater-Whitekiller, United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians
139. Wayne Divelbiss, Cherokee Nation
140. William Curtis, Cherokee Nation
141. William Lossiah-Bratt, Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians
142. Wynona Burwell, Cherokee Nation
143. Zac Russell, Cherokee Nation

The undersigned Native citizens stand in solidarity with our Cherokee relatives, friends, and colleagues who face a unique epidemic of non-Natives claiming their identity. We recognize that while the problem most often targets Cherokee identity, the public misunderstanding of what it means to be Native American threatens all of our rights. We hope that this long controversy will end and Senator Warren will do the right thing and set the record straight that Indigenous self-determination comes before before unsubstantiated family stories and DNA testing.

144. Ali Watson, Oglala Lakota
145. Amanda Blackhorse, Diné (Navajo) Nation
146. Amber Starks, Muscogee Creek Citizen
147. Ashley Fairbanks, White Earth Anishinaabe
148. Ashley McCray, Absentee Shawnee Tribe/Oglala Lakota
149. Audra Simpson, Kahnawà:ke Mohawk
150. Candi Brings Plenty, Oglala Lakota Sioux Tribe
151. Carole Lindstrom, Turtle Mountain Band of Ojibwe
152. Charitie Ropati, Native Village of Kongiganak
153. Christine Brown, Delaware Tribe of Indians
154. Cole DeLaune, Kiowa Tribe
155. Cori Taber, Muscogee (Creek) Nation
156. Debbie Reese, Nambé Owingeh
157. DeLesslin George-Warren, Catawba Nation
158. Desi Rodriguez-Lonebear, Northern Cheyenne Nation
159. Dina Gilio-Whitaker, Colville Confederated Tribes
160. Emmy Scott, Spokane and Winnebego Nations
161. Erica Tremblay, Seneca-Cayuga Nation
162. Erin Thomas Anhalt, Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma
163. Eryn Wise, Jicarilla Apache/Laguna Pueblo
164. Eva Coyote, Delaware Tribe of Indians
165. Iakowi:he’ne’ Oakes, Mohawk, Snipe Clan, Rotinoshonni
166. J. Kēhaulani Kauanui, Kanaka Maoli
167. Jacqueline Keeler, Diné/Dakota
168. Jean M. O’Brien, White Earth Ojibwe
169. Jen Hubbard, Muscogee (Creek) Nation
170. Jennifer Billie Chadwick, Seminole Tribe of Florida
171. Jennina Rose Gorman/Katsistioasta , St. Reggis Mohawk Tribe
172. Jesse Wente, Ojibwe, Serpent River First Nation
173. Jessica Lambert, Choctaw Nation
174. Jodi Byrd, Chickasaw Nation of Oklahoma
175. Jodi Voice Yellowfish, Creek Nation
176. John Little, Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
177. Johnnie Jae, Otoe-Missouria/Choctaw
178. Jordan Marie Daniel, Kul Wičasa Oyaté, federally known as the Lower Brule Sioux Tribe
179. Joseph Clift, Cowlitz Indian Tribe
180. Jukari Davis, Navajo Nation
181. Julia Coyote, Delaware Tribe of Indians
182. Kaitlin Curtice, Potawatomi Nation
183. Kat Redding, Powhatan (Pamunkey) and Choctaw/Chickasaw
184. Kawennakenre Shirley Meloche, Mohawk of Kahnawake Canada
185. Keely Toledo, Navajo Nation
186. Kim TallBear, Sisseton Wahpeton Oyate
187. Krystal Tsosie, Diné (Navajo) Nation
188. Larissa Nez, Navajo Nation
189. Lindsey Naegeli, Ottawa Tribe of Oklahoma
190. Lucas Brown Eyes, Oglala Lakota
191. Madeline Fernandez, Delaware Tribe of Indians
192. Mahayla Perryman-Matthews, Seneca-Cayuga Nation
193. Mariah Greenwood Adair, Chickasaw Nation
194. Marla Striped Face-Collins, Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
195. Martie Simmons, Ho-Chunk Nation of Wisconsin
196. Mary Coyote, Delaware Tribe of Indians
197. Megan Red Shirt-Shaw, Oglala Lakota
198. Michelle Cook, Navajo Nation
199. Natalie Diaz, Gila River (Akimel O’odham)
200. Nicholas Galanin, Tlingit/Unangax̂
201. Nick Courtney, Makah
202. Nick Estes, Lower Brule Sioux Tribe
203. Nick Martin, Sappony Tribe
204. Renee’ Frerichs, Qawalangin Tribe of Unalaska
205. Sandy Grande, Quechua
206. Shannon Speed, Chickasaw Nation
207. Sheldon Beach, Chickasaw Nation
208. Summer Wesley, Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma
209. Tanaya Winder, Duckwater Shoshone
210. Tara Houska, Couchiching First Nation Anishinaabe
211. Tara Moses, Seminole Nation of Oklahoma
212. Taté Walker, Mniconjou Lakota & citizen of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe
213. Tiffany Midge, Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
214. Trudie Jackson, Navajo Nation
215. Twyla Baker, Three Affiliated Tribes (Mandan, Hidatsa, & Arikara Nation)
216. Valerie Lambert, Choctaw Nation
217. Virginia Mouse, Osage/Quapaw
218. Yvonne Perryman-Matthews, Seneca-Cayuga Nation

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HU-885118952

The point about Warren being, of course, is that she lies for expediency. She lies and doesn't care who she hurts. She lies and acts like it's victimless. She lies even when her lies have been proven lies.

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foodonastump

she lies for expediency.


Should I? Nah, why bother.

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Nana H

Hoot !!!

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lurker111

The DNC has a way to get rid of bernie. Wait for it. They'll also sacrifice Amy and Warren, but they don't have a chance, anyway. Biden is their man, bloomer and booti are just along for the ride.

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woodnymph2_gw

I totally agree with Sable. Amy was the only adult in that room of squabbling, shouting interrupters.

Althea, how can you say that Bernie was the only honest person in the debates? I find Klobuchar appealing for her honesty and directness and pragmatism. I trust her, but realize she does not have a chance at winning amongst so many male egos.

Having said that, I am here on the ground, in Charleston SC, and there has been a lot of interest to see and hear on the streets. Biden's campaign is now on an uptick, and he has gotten several local endorsements from prominent leaders with high standards.

And we here in Charleston are so sick and tired of Tom Steyer ads-- we just wish he would go away!

I used to "like" Warren. Now, regrettably, she has become a mere "attack dog", so has lost my respect. Her opposite, Klobuchar, is controlled, reasonable, and stable.

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Ann

Woodnymph, I bet it's very close to a really beautiful time in Charleston, right? Blooms, blooms and more blooms! What a lovely city you live in!

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althea_gw

Woodnymph, here's one Klobuchar has repeated ad nauseam.

(Emphasis mine)

"Klobuchar claimed on Tuesday that Sanders' " 'Medicare For All' plan alone, on page 8, clearly says that it will kick 149 million Americans off their current health insurance in four years."

Facts First: While Page 8 of Sanders' bill does not specifically mention the figure cited by Klobuchar, it states that "it shall be unlawful for ... a private health insurer to sell health insurance coverage that duplicates the benefits provided under this Act." And the Klobuchar's figure is close to the latest number provided by one study. Some 153 million people are covered by private plans sponsored by their employers, according to the latest report from the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation.

There are also tens of millions more who are covered by private plans through Medicare Advantage, Medicaid managed care plans and on the Obamacare individual market.

All these people would have to change their health care under Sanders' Medicare for All plan — but they would be covered by the federal plan instead.

-- Tami Luhby and Caroline Kelly"

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/25/politics/charleston-south-carolina-debate-fact-check/index.html

Here is the text of the bill so you can see for yourself.

https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s1129/BILLS-116s1129is.pdf


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Ziemia(6a)

218

Significant, or not?

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lurker111

They can and should disqualify anyone who voted to impeach and remove Trump on bogus charges. See ya later, bernie.

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catkinZ8a

Nana H

Hoot !!!

_________________

Sounds so familiar.

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foodonastump

You’re a quick one!

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woodnymph2_gw

Hi, Ann. Charleston is indeed starting to look lovely, as the early spring flowers are unfolding: pink tulip trees, snowdrops, daffodils, azaleas, camellias, and jasmine. Next we will see masses of wistaria and all the semi-tropical flowers that bloom so early here. I've often wished I could take a class that enabled me to learn all the names of the various flora and fauna that I had never encountered before moving here. Weather is still a bit cool, but next week warmer temps are forecast. People are enjoying the usual oyster roasts and carriage tours, despite all the political excitement.

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Ann

That makes me smile woodnymph. Gosh, I loved my spring trip to Charleston! The Middleton Place gardens were absolutely stunning!!!!

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