Tiffy, It sounds to me more like your caterpillars are suffering from a bacterial or viral infection, not Oe. What is the temperature like in your area right now? Has there been a sudden or unusually high increase in temperature (climate change)? This often causes this type of problem with Monarchs, or so I have found. What happens is that more of the various bacteria found in the soils will grow (makes sense, doesn't it? warmer temps, better conditions for stuff like bacteria and/or fungi to replicate? or at least for some?) and then, you end up with a variety of problems with your lepidoptera. It seems to me that, Monarchs, in particular, are more susceptible to climate changes and what happens to the plants that they are eating. My own hypothesis is that the plants have a greater propensity to become inundated with the little microscopic beasties (fungi, bacteria, virus, etc.) that have a detrimental effect on the growth of the larvae. I have seen this time and time again as the weather changes. When the temperatures are cooler and more stable, the larvae seem to thrive. When the temperatures increase to ridiculous highs all of a sudden or for inordinate amounts of time (when normally it is milder), I have more larval deaths similar to what you are speaking of. Don't be discouraged. Instead, continue taking precautions with removing those that are ill and sanitizing your containers, removing all leaves and providing fresh, DRY leaves. Try to be sure that moisture is kept to a minimum and air-flow is abundant. As an aside: one of my former Kindergartners who is going into 2nd grade this year, found some Monarchs on the Milkweed she planted in her yard. Her mom texted me just last week while I was on vacation. Mom was very concerned about the health of a few of the larvae. Aliyah, on the other hand, was very matter-of-fact and was trying to explain that the caterpillars were sick and had to be removed from the healthy ones and euthanized. Mom wasn't so sure and wanted confirmation from me; hence the text as well as photos. Sure enough, this little girl was absolutely correct. She had 'talked' to the caterpillars (according to her mother), "I'm sorry little ones. I am taking care of you the best I can. I know you are sick." She blew them a kiss and then told mom what needed to be done. So, hang in there. Keep in mind that less than 10% of the eggs laid by a mama butterfly actually make it to adulthood. When viewed statistically, you realize the disease issue is one that is astronomical. I do cover some of this on my website. CalSherry aka tdogmom :)

Please read the Pool School section at Trouble Free Pools to learn pool chemistry. And yes, HTH's tabs are lame, IMHO. TFP can be gotten to through my site. Gardenweb seems to find the TFP address conflicts with their site. I see it as one does construction (here) and the other does pool care (TFP), and each does what they do very well. Using the About section on my site seems to be a satisfactory work around. Scott

g'day valvicoz, yeh a lot of people might seem to preffer talking about roses or whatever when it comes to the water issue, guess old habits die hard hey chuckle? for me the only gardening suited to australia is gardens designed using native plants and then not just natives but indemic natives as they are the absolute best to cope with all conditions, plus of cours a native from one place can be a weed in another place. but we still perservere with our need to grow food plants so we build our gardens accordingly, all our beds are raised beds and we mulch heavily plus we use all our recycled water ie.,. grey from washing dishes [use that regular earth friendly brand] & clothes (soon showers as well)[we make our own laundry detergent, recipe on our page], plus my wee water is used. we use very little well almost no fresh water on our food plants after they are planted, the only fresh water they will get is rain water. we have installed a water tank of substantial size [25,000 lt] (no good those small capacity models they just simply won't be effective), we are fitting 44 gallon plastic drums under other downpies and this water can be used for clothes washing, the garden or topping up the pool, we have a tank [1,800 lt]fitted to the pool system to capture and hold back flush or over full water from the pool to be used to top up the pool this tank is currently full, our fresh water tank for home use is holding around 10,000 lt's. we have 2 out of 5 drums fitted one is full so far. len Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

The simple answer is - you water slowly and watch what happens. I have a couple of Aralias in 18" diameter terra cotta pots. I water and wait. If there's no water in the saucer, I water a bit more and wait again. This is repeated until there's some water in the saucer. Usually, by the third time around, I'm done. In truth, I'm not really waiting. I go off and water other plants and just come back check the ones that don't have any water in their saucer.