Impeachment is a "Coup" -- That's Pants on Fire

THOR, Son of ODIN(2)
  • The key element of a coup is that it is carried out beyond the bounds of legality.
  • Yet impeachment is explicitly described in the Constitution as the way to remove a president.
  • Also, if the president is removed from office, his duly elected vice president would take over -- not the opposition party.




_________________________________

Amid the pressure of a House impeachment inquiry, President Donald Trump has continued to stoke the idea that he’s the victim of a coup — shorthand for "coup d’etat," a French term that means the overthrow of the government.


"As I learn more and more each day, I am coming to the conclusion that what is taking place is not an impeachment, it is a COUP, intended to take away the Power of the........People, their VOTE, their Freedoms, their Second Amendment, Religion, Military, Border Wall, and their God-given rights as a Citizen of The United States of America!", Trump tweeted on Oct. 1.


The following day, Trump’s campaign unveiled a new ad that said, "It’s nothing short of a coup, and it must be stopped."


On several subsequent occasions he’s shared his allies’ uses of the word on Twitter. He retweeted "coup" comments by Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, on Oct. 3; former House speaker Newt Gingrich on Oct. 10; conservative broadcaster Mark Levin on Oct. 14; Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch on Oct. 19; and Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., on Oct. 24. Earlier in the year, Trump referred to the special counsel report headed by Robert Mueller as a coup.


However, his use of the word "coup" to describe impeachment, a constitutionally defined process, is not accurate, even as a figure of speech.


https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/oct/25/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-impeachment-coup-s-pants-fire/

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seagrass_gw

Nothing that comes out of that man's mouth is accurate.


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Annie Deighnaugh

Of course....anything that avoids assigning *any* responsibility to trump for anything he's done. It's *all* *always* someone else's fault...he's just the victim here.

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Wants to Grow

Hi Thor, It is a fact that the Obama administration spied on Trump campaign and the spying continued after Trump was inaugurated President. This action is considered to be beyond the bounds of legality. The bogus impeachment was an abuse of power by the Democratic saboteurs of the House of Representatives. Thank goodness those saboteurs were put in their place by the Senate who acquitted the President of those bogus articles of impeachment! So that impeachment did not succeed in being a way to remove a president.

Contempt of Congress is not an impeachable offense. It was a pathetic attempt to weaponize impeachment to use it as tool for a coup.

What else would you call an effort where the CIA, NSC, DOJ, and DNC collude against a duly elected President?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

What else would you call an effort where the CIA, NSC, DOJ, and DNC collude against a duly elected President?

A wild-eyed conspiracy seasoned with generous doses of self delusion -- right up there with Pizzagate.

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Annie Deighnaugh

It is a fact that the Obama administration spied on Trump campaign and the spying continued after Trump was inaugurated President.

No, it is not a fact:

Department of Justice (DOJ) Inspector General Michael Horowitz said Wednesday that he found no evidence the FBI wiretapped anyone other than former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page in connection with its Russia investigation.

Horowitz’s comments at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing refuted a series of tweets sent by President Trump in March 2017 in which he claimed that Obama had his “wires tapped” at Trump Tower during the 2016 campaign.

“Did your investigation identify any evidence President Obama ordered the FBI to tap Donald Trump’s phone?” asked Sen. Christopher Coons (D-Del.), after citing Trump’s tweets from 2017.

“We didn’t find any evidence the FBI had tapped any other phones or anything else other than the FISA that we addressed,” Horowitz responded, referring to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant to surveil Page.


Source: The Hill
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/474134-doj-inspector-general-refutes-trump-claim-that-obama-tapped-his

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Wants to Grow

Hi Nancy, Do you also think those invalid FISA warrants are a wild-eyed conspiracy?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/01/23/doj-insufficient-cause-wiretap-carter-page/4558317002/

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Annie Deighnaugh

What else would you call an effort where the CIA, NSC, DOJ, and DNC collude against a duly elected President?

I call it an investigation into a president who is corrupt and has committed multiple illegal acts, abused the power of his office, is undermining the checks and balances built into our government to prevent any president from becoming a dictator, and violated his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution.

Or to put it in language that might be more familiar, "No collusion! No collusion! No collusion!"

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

LIke every time the local police 'collude' to stop a burglary ring.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Hold trump responsible for his behavior. If he's done nothing wrong, then he should have nothing to hide...instead he's blocking evidence, documents, witnesses, defying subpoenas, running to court to postpone any actions on his part and tampering with witnesses at every turn. He's not even *trying* to prove he's done nothing wrong...he's just preventing anyone from finding out what he did.


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Del Phinium

^ A million "likes" for that post, Wants to Grow! "Guilty until proven innocent" has been a rampant cry from the Left since 2016.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

your soviet style of justice

Is this anything like Trump & Co. vilifying Hillary Clinton and loudly (and frequently) chanting "lock her up."

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Kathy

Now the chant “Lock her up” is done about Pelosi at Trump rallies.

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bleusblue2

where do we go from here? The President, who is under oath to follow and protect the Constitution, slandering the process right and left. If there REALLY was an attempted coup, if it was illegal action, then it's time for drastic and immediate action. Should the military step in and take over the House? Does this clown know what he is calling for? I'm afraid he does. He believes he's elevating himself above the institutions.

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bleusblue2

Wants to Grow

Hi Annie, Thankfully, your soviet style of justice, where one is supposed to prove their innocence, isn't the way we do liberty here in the good ole USA.

~~~~

in the Soviet system there was no opportunity for the accused to prove anything. The verdict was in before the trial. Want to call a witness? Defend yourself? Go jump in the lake. Trump -- want to call a witness? -- no I'd rather whine about how unfairly i'm being treated and then kick out a few more of my previously lauded hirees. <sar-casm>

In one famous trial, "After a fair trial, the accused will be executed." No kidding.

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Kathy

The closest I saw to a coup is the day after Trump fired Comey and paraded the Russians who interfered in our election through the Oval Office.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Innocent until proven guilty begins at the courtroom door, not before.

And whether guilty or not, it is *against the law* to obstruct justice, even if you are the president of the united states. No man is above the law...at least not supposed to be, not in this country.

Instead trump has obstructed justice, has the doj as his personal enforcers, and tampered with the gop jury, led by mcconnell who was in complete alignment with the wh and whipped by graham. Moreover all the gop senators broke their oath to do impartial justice.

trump was never put on trial...rather justice was and she lost...bigly.

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adoptedbyhounds

Department of Justice (DOJ) Inspector General Michael Horowitz said Wednesday that he found no evidence the FBI wiretapped anyone other than former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page in connection with its Russia investigation.

Not in dispute.

But that is not to say the FBI didn't use electronic surveillance or confidential human sources to spy on the Trump Campaign. Read the Horowitz Report.

AG William Barr made some important points about it after it was released. Some folks might want to refresh their memories. Here are a few of those points, with the complete list at the link below.

1. Don’t expect Durham’s findings to be announced before late spring or summer 2020.

2. The FBI did spy on the Trump campaign. That’s what electronic surveillance is.

3. Regarding the FBI’s actions in surveilling Trump campaign associates, it was a “travesty” and there were “many abuses.”

4. From “day one,” the FBI investigation generated exculpatory information (tending to point to the targets’ innocence) and nothing that corroborated Russia collusion.

5. It’s a “big deal” to use U.S. law enforcement and intelligence resources to investigate the opposing political party, and I cannot think of another recent instance in which this happened.

6. Evidence to start the FBI’s investigation into Trump associates was “flimsy” from the start and based on the idea that Trump aide George Papadopoulos expressed he may have had pre-knowledge of a Democrat National Committee computer hack. However, it was actually just an offhand barroom comment by a young campaign aide described merely as a “suggestion of a suggestion, a vague allusion” to the fact that the Russians may have something they can dump. But by that time, May 2016, there was already rampant speculation online and in political circles that the Russians had hacked Hillary Clinton’s emails in 2014 and that they might surface. So the idea that Papadopoulos’s comment showed pre-knowledge of the Democratic National Committee hack and dump “is a big stretch.”

7. It was “wrong” for the FBI to presume the Trump campaign was part of a plot. They should have gone to the campaign and discussed their suspicions.

8. The normal thing to do would be to tell the campaign that there could be attempted foreign interference. There is no legitimate explanation as to why the FBI didn’t do this. The FBI’s explanation for this was that they only do “defensive briefings” if they’re certain there’s no chance they’re tipping someone off. But this simply isn’t true, isn’t plausible, and doesn’t hold water because our intelligence officials and President Barack Obama repeatedly contacted the Russians, the guilty party, to tell them to “cut it out.”

9. If the purpose were to protect the election, you would have given the Trump campaign a defensive briefing. You could have disrupted any foreign activity in time to protect the U.S. election.

10. As to the FBI’s motive, “that’s why we have Durham.” I’m not saying the motivations were improper, but it’s premature to say they weren’t.

11. The inspector general operates differently as an internal watchdog. Horowitz’s approach is to say that if people involved give reasonable explanations for what appears to be wrongdoing, and if he can’t find documentary or testimonial evidence to the contrary, he accepts it.

12. Contrary to much reporting, Horowitz didn’t rule out improper motive; he didn’t find documentary or testimonial evidence of improper motive. Those are two different things.

13. Instead of talking to the Trump campaign, the FBI secretly “wired up” sources and had them talk to four people affiliated with the Trump campaign, in August, September, and October 2016.

14. All of the information from this surveillance came back exculpatory regarding any supposed relationship to Russia and specific facts. But the FBI didn’t inform the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance court, which approved wiretaps against former Trump campaign volunteer Carter Page four times.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/william-barr-has-suddenly-become-chatty-and-hes-provided-quite-an-information-dump_3171471.html

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margaritadina

''Annie Deighnaugh

He's
not even *trying* to prove he's done nothing wrong...''

He is not *obligated* to prove that he is innocent. This is not NK, you know.

The political coop failed just like it supposed to. Deal with it.

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adoptedbyhounds

What did Sharyl Attkisson get wrong?

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Annie Deighnaugh

You gonna tell me that the cops are going to knock on your door to arrest you for robbing a bank, and rather than give them a solid alibi, you're going to stand there and say, nyah, nyah, I don't have to defend myself. Really?? You better believe I'd provide the evidence that it wasn't me. Especially since I know I didn't rob the bank.

Moreover, as president of the united states who has sworn fealty to the Constitution, it behooves him to *cooperate* with law enforcement as he is supposed to be the chief law enforcer. Instead trump has been acting like a criminal...praising manafort for not cooperating with the DoJ, calling cohen a rat for cooperating with law enforcement, blocking requests for documents, evidence and witnesses, firing people who have been involved in the investigation and so on. Talk about a consciousness of guilt...

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Donald Trump has done everything in his power to avoid being questioned under oath regarding his actions in the White House and in his 2016 campaign.

We have had no way of hearing his sworn testimony regarding his claims of innocence. Given his history of lying to the public, those claims of his are worth next to nothing.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Epoch Times? Let's see what wikipedia has to say about them:

The Epoch Times is a multi-language newspaper[2] founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement.[3] Though the newspaper is known for general interest topics with a focus on news about China and its human rights issues, it has become known for its support of U.S. President Donald Trump and favorable coverage of far-right politicians in Europe; a 2019 report showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11] The newspaper is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty Television (NTD).[7] The group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccination propaganda.[7][12][13]

Not exactly what I would call an objective source.

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numbersjunkie

Those who don't know the meaning of "coup", and don't understand our Constitution and how the coequal branches are supposed to act as a check and balance, but are instead drawn in by the rantings of a con man and his syocophants, are poor examples of American patriots. It's sad to see.

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adoptedbyhounds

What did Sharyl Attkisson get wrong?

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catkinZ8a

Jessie K. Liu stepped in it.

POTUS checkmated her.

She stepped down because she thought she was getting a new appointment. She was replaced.

Then her appointment was withdrawn, lol.

Checkmate you corrupt witch!

Devin Nunes in Wolverine Mode: This is Only The Beginning of Sunlight on The Mueller Team…

Posted on February 11, 2020 by sundance

Devin Nunes appears with Lou Dobbs and breaks the news on national media the nomination of former DC Attorney Jessie Liu was withdrawn. Mr. Nunes went on to discuss the issues around the DOJ and Deep State resistance effort and then contrasts the sentencing recommendation for Roger Stone against the 30-day sentence for SSCI Security Director James Wolfe.

Additionally, Representative Nunes notes this is only the beginning of sunlight upon the dirty lawyers who organized within the Mueller probe…. and there will be much more to come.


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/02/11/devin-nunes-in-wolverine-mode-this-is-only-the-beginning-of-sunlight-on-the-mueller-team/

_____________________________________________
catkinZ8a

Remember Buzzfeed reporter Ali Watkins' and her boyfriend James Wolfe (INDICTED former security director for the Senate Intelligence committee)?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/us/politics/times-reporter-phone-records-seized.html

By Adam Goldman, Nicholas Fandos and Katie Benner

  • June 7, 2018
    • 686

WASHINGTON — A former Senate Intelligence Committee aide was arrested on Thursday in an investigation of classified information leaks where prosecutors also secretly seized years’ worth of a New York Times reporter’s phone and email records.

The former aide, James A. Wolfe, 57, was charged with lying repeatedly to investigators about his contacts with three reporters. According to the authorities, Mr. Wolfe made false statements to the F.B.I. about providing two of them with sensitive information related to the committee’s work. He denied to investigators that he ever gave classified material to journalists, the indictment said.

Mr. Wolfe, the Intelligence Committee’s director of security, was slated to appear before a federal judge on Friday in Washington. Reached on Thursday evening before his arrest, Mr. Wolfe declined to comment.

Mr. Wolfe’s case led to the first known instance of the Justice Department going after a reporter’s data under President Trump. The seizure was disclosed in a letter to the Times reporter, Ali Watkins, who had been in a three-year relationship with Mr. Wolfe. The seizure suggested that prosecutors under the Trump administration will continue the aggressive tactics employed under President Barack Obama."


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October 15, 2018 at 1:35PM


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catkinZ8a

Thanks to Jessie K. Liu--Wolfe got a measly 60 days in jail!


BREAKING: President Trump Withdraws Nomination of Jessie Liu…

Posted on February 11, 2020 by sundance

Complicated business folks, complicated business....

WASHINGTON – President Trump is withdrawing his nomination for former U.S. attorney for D.C. Jessie Liu to serve as the Treasury Department’s undersecretary for terrorism and financial crimes, a top position overseeing economic sanctions, according to two sources with direct knowledge.

[…] This was “the president’s call,” according to a former administration official familiar with the situation. The decision, which was made today, has administration officials questioning the circumstances that led to Trump changing his mind — with the developments in the Roger Stone case today being the only one they are aware of. (read more)

Great job folks. Apparently the Senate will not have to ask Ms. Liu any pesky questions…. Imagine that.



https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/02/11/breaking-president-trump-withdraws-nomination-of-jessie-liu/

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catkinZ8a

Wait wait, what?
WHAT???!!!
Trump got Liu to step down as US Attorney for DC by nominating her to a top Treasury Dept. Job, then appointed Timothy O'Shea to be the new US Attorney for DC...and then he WITHDREW LIU'S NOMINATION the same day all these prosecutor's are QUITTING?!



Updated 5 hours ago - Politics & Policy

Scoop: Trump pulls nomination for former U.S. attorney for D.C. to Treasury post

Jonathan Swan, Zachary Basu




President Trump is withdrawing his nomination for former U.S. attorney for D.C. Jessie Liu to serve as the Treasury Department's undersecretary for terrorism and financial crimes, a top position overseeing economic sanctions, according to two sources with direct knowledge.

The big picture: Liu was confirmed in September 2017 to lead the largest U.S. attorney's office in the country, overseeing a number of politically charged prosecutions that included the case against Trump associates Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort and other spinoffs from the Mueller investigation.

  • Liu stepped down from the U.S. attorney's office last month after Trump announced his intention to nominate her to the Treasury position in December 2019.
  • Liu was expected to stay in her position through her confirmation — with a hearing before the Senate Banking Committee scheduled for this Thursday — but was unexpectedly informed last month that Attorney General Bill Barr was replacing her with his close adviser Timothy Shea.
  • She was informed that Trump was pulling her nomination Tuesday afternoon.

Behind the scenes: This was "the president's call," according to a former administration official familiar with the situation. The decision, which was made today, has administration officials questioning the circumstances that led to Trump changing his mind — with the developments in the Roger Stone case today being the only new information they are aware of.

  • Four career prosecutors from the D.C. attorney's office withdrew from the Stone case after the Justice Department overruled them on a sentencing recommendation.

This story is breaking news. Please check back for updates.



https://www.axios.com/trump-jessie-liu-treasury-us-attorney-838d1a3b-1d4d-414c-ac7d-77a7ba6d4edb.html

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Mr. Nunes went on to discuss the issues around the DOJ and Deep State resistance effort

You mean Devin Nunes, the liar, who denied knowing Team Parnas when he was up to his eyebrows in their dirt?

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

the rest of the world to the new Banana Republic of Merika:


should we send in the troops to save the good people from the extreme, lawless dictator?


(reality beats fiction...


scary, not sure whether you thinking people will manage to stop this,


really worried)

hang in there and VOTE,


aw, forgot about the gerrymandering and voter suppression...

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lurker111

I would ignore the blather. It has already been proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that the crats broke laws, went against the constitution, acted in bad faith, and violated their oath to the constitution. They are all traitors.

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Ziemia(6a)

Thanks for a laugh this morning:

"5. It’s a “big deal” to use U.S. law enforcement and intelligence resources to investigate the opposing political party, and I cannot think of another recent instance in which this happened."

(Besides, the initial FISA warrant is still legit though we're sure Barr is working on it )

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Always informative to receive the latest talking points from Bizarro World...

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Ziemia(6a)

What did SherylA get wrong? Get me some staff and then I'll have the resources needed to answer. She is deft with words and cleverly leaves significant bits out of her long timelines and narratives.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I don't know that she got anything wrong in reporting what barr had to say...but what barr had to say is nothing short of spin to protect the president and cast aspersions on those doing their job charged with investigating wrongdoing no matter where it occurs in the administration. barr is violating his oath of office with his fealty to the president instead of the Constitution.

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adoptedbyhounds

"I don't know that she got anything wrong in reporting what barr had to say... "

You make an excellent point, Annie. Upthread you were critical of the Epoch Times. Now you're not sure Attkisson failed in reporting what Barr had to say. You allege "spin" and go on to say, without offering evidence, that "...barr is violating his oath of office with his fealty to the president instead of the Constitution."

What evidence do you have that Barr's fealty to the president incompatible with the Constitution?

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Wants to Grow

You gonna tell me that the cops are going to knock on your door to arrest you for robbing a bank, and rather than give them a solid alibi, you're going to stand there and say, nyah, nyah, I don't have to defend myself. Really?? You better believe I'd provide the evidence that it wasn't me. Especially since I know I didn't rob the bank.

Hi Annie, You would be well advised to tell those cops, knocking on your door to arrest you, that you want to speak with a lawyer and speak not another word.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-duane-dont-talk-police-20160826-snap-story.html

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvkgnp/law-professor-police-interrogation-law-constitution-survival

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bleusblue2

So, Annie described police at the door. Right. Ask for your lawyer. In the courtroom present your case. Or not. So let's describe the courtroom scene. The prosecution presents its case. The defence declines to call witnesses. The Jury will decide based on that.

Trump got as far as speaking with his lawyer and they decided to tell the people to suck it up, they weren't going to present a case at all. He should have had to plea bargain.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Trump got as far as speaking with his lawyer and they decided to tell the people to suck it up

No way would Trump's lawyers allow him to be put under oath and questioned.

Trump would be sitting in jail for perjury before he were ever prosecuted for his crimes regarding Ukraine, obstruction of justice, etc.

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zmith

Law abiding folks don't need a team of legal professionals to keep them out of trouble, do they?

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Annie Deighnaugh

What evidence do you have that Barr's fealty to the president incompatible with the Constitution?

Oath of Office for the Attorney General: show me where it even mentions the president:

“I, ______, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the UnitedStates against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

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