How many of you are prepared for Disaster?

haydayhayday

The paranoid gene survives in our species because every hundred years of so, it's only the paranoid who survive.



I'm amazed at reports that our first-line defense, hospitals and the like, against things like Coronavirus might be having trouble keeping stock of simple things like masks.

And the CDC, I suspect, is not really prepared to deal with a surge, if it comes, of people needing to be tested for it. How are they going to be able to distinguish between the common flu and Coronavirus if it's needed? I think the Japanese said they can only test 1000 people a day.... and the ship at bay has close to 4,000 people on it.

Do you have a supply of masks, gloves....anything at all?

How much food do you have if you need to hole up for a while?

Finally, with the so-called anti-gouging laws, why would someone like me go to the trouble and expense and risk of stocking up on these items for all of you who don't do it yourself if I get no reward for doing it?


Depend on FEMA? Explain that to the Puerto Ricans.


Hay

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Do you have a supply of masks, gloves

Actually I do.

My supplies were accumulated for other reasons; allergic reactions and messy projects.

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haydayhayday

Right now, you can't buy any masks at any Home Depot within 100 miles of me.

Hay

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haydayhayday

I haven't seen anything so recent that I can remember the exact details, but our food supply would run out in no time at all if people panicked and everyone wanted to stock up.

Hay

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

you can't buy any masks at any Home Depot within 100 miles of me.

Available online from a variety of sources.

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foodonastump

N95 disposables? There’s limited supplies here, Hay, according to their web site. Is that what I should be buying? I’ll buy you some, too, if you want to stop by for a visit.

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zmith

I've never been one to panic, but out of curiosity I did a quick online search for "viral face mask" and guess what? Sold out everywhere! Could it be because they all come from China? I would LOL, but it's not really funny.

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zmith

I used to live in hurricane-prone Houston. An imminent storm can empty store shelves of batteries and bottled water in a matter of hours.

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LoneJack Zn 6a, KC

We have a case of ramen in the pantry and will have half a cow in the freezer soon. After that's gone I guess I'll have to live on varmints.

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vedabeeps

We probably have around 50 Niosh N95 masks left- I always have them on hand for sanding cars and other messy jobs, boxes of gloves since I color my hair and do a lot of other messy projects. Otherwise we’re well stocked (food, cat food and litter, water and filtration supplies, household, first aid, etc.) since it’s earthquake country. We’d be good for several weeks- maybe even longer since we have a year round garden being Southern California.

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paprikash

We’re not prepared but my BIL sure is. He’s got gold, silver, masks, medicine, canned food for a lifetime (probably expired stuff I wouldn’t eat), all kinds of meat (including roadkill) in a freezer that probably hasn’t been attended to in ages (again, I wouldn’t eat), and lots of his home cooking (which I won’t eat). DH and I have enough in the freezer for about a week so I think, if there’s a disaster, we’re in deep doo doo. At least we’ll be together.......

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

I have a good supply of latex gloves (use them when hand weeding) and N95 masks (use these when working in the crawlspace, spray painting, and using fiberglass insulation). Have 2 wells for water and can go vegetarian if need be.

Eat, Drink, and Be Merry Hay.

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

chances are

face masks, simple ones, don't work against a tiny virus, just sayin

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ohiomom

‘From ghoulies and ghosties and long leggety beasties And things that go bump in the night, Good Lord deliver us!’


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haydayhayday

Linaria:

"chances are

face masks, simple ones, don't work against a tiny virus, just sayin"

If someone sneezes on your face, can it hurt?

ohiomom:

‘From ghoulies and ghosties and long leggety beasties And things that go bump in the night, Good Lord deliver us!’

The wing and a prayer survival kit.

vgkg:

"Eat, Drink, and Be Merry Hay."

Funny. I'm definitely stocking up on beer and wine. They keep for a while. I am going to my big dance festival this weekend. An orgy of 4000 people sneezing and coughing and touching. Bringing back whatever we pick up back to our home town.Coming soon to a town near you.

Paprikish:

"At least we’ll be together."

When I'm thinking about this today, I can just imagine people, unprepared and dying on their deathbed, sitting at home and posing one last unflattering photo of Trump. HT's version of the musicians playing the last songs on the Titanic.

lonejack:

"After that's gone I guess I'll have to live on varmints."

I can survive for at least a year from the deer in my field.

I'd have to be in pretty bad shape to want to eat a 'possum.


zsmith:

"An imminent storm can empty store shelves of batteries and bottled water in a matter of hours."

Ditto with all the N 95's that you're now seeing on line.


Foas:

"N95 disposables? There’s limited supplies here, Hay, according to their web site. Is that what I should be buying? I’ll buy you some, too, if you want to stop by for a visit."

Drop by on your way home and give us an update. They're going fast.


Nancy:

"Available online from a variety of sources."

Check back in ten minutes and they may very well be gone.

I can't be sure, but it looks to me that the prices may have shot up recently.



Gotta run. One last dance. God willing, that's all I ask out of life.

Hope you all make it.

Hay





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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Check back in ten minutes and they may very well be gone.

No, still pages of disposable face masks for sale.

it looks to me that the prices may have shot up recently.

The joys of capitalism.


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blfenton

I just googled the differences between flu, cold and coronavirus. It seems that no one knows. Here is one of the many links

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-cold-or-flu-how-to-tell-the-difference/a-52233885

Common coronavirus symptoms can include:

— Fever
— Dry cough
— Shortness of breath
— Aching muscles
— Fatigue

Less typical coronavirus symptoms:

— Phlegm buildup
— Headache
— Hemoptysis
— Diarrhea

Symptoms atypical for coronavirus:

— Runny nose
— Sore throat

A runny nose and a sore throat are typical signs of upper respiratory infection. Therefore, those who have bouts of sneezing or get the sniffles likely have the flu or a common cold.

So I just had a "COLD" or did I? I had dry cough, fatigue, shortness of breath, headache and diarrhea (TMI - sorry) but no runny nose or sore throat. Could it have been.......?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

What I’ve been hearing is that one wears a mask to protect others, not oneself. If you have a virus mask up, if not don’t bother because it won’t protect you anyway.

For food, we have three days’ worth of three meals for ten people in separate bins ready to toss in a vehicle if we need to evacuate.

At the moment, in our house I figure we could live comfortably about two weeks on the food we have now, but I’m just about ready to order all my bulk foods (flour, sugar, rice, beans, lentils) so those supplies are a little low. We could live, but we wouldn’t be eating our favourite meals by any stretch of the imagination.

With short rations, we could live about a month I think, and that doesn’t allow for harvesting crops, emptying our commercial storage, or butchering chickens or cows. It does assume we can still milk twice a day and gather eggs.

If we can empty our commercial storage and harvest, we’ve got at least three months. If we can butcher animals, we’ve got several years but we’ll be awfully slim and several vegetarians will have to compromise their diet of choice.

That’s assuming there are no raids from our neighbours of course.

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Nana H

We could last easily three months without leaving the cottage ( primary residence) . Might not be the " funnest " three months but we could easily last that long between freezer and canning.

City and Florida ......not at all prepared for anything more than next week.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

I'm set. My neighbors run in herds and are pleasantly fattened...

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ohiomom

I remember about 10 years ago a friend being shocked that no one in our family owns a gun ... as city dwellers she assumed all of us were locked and loaded. So i asked her why she and her hubby (also city dwellers) owned so many .... "for when the hordes come of course" says she.

Okay now I will be serious and answer the question. I went out today and bought cases of crackers and gallon jars of peanut butter, all to be washed down with the dozens of cases of water and powdered milk.

We are ready for the hordes (^_^)


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cattyles

I need cat litter, I guess. I probably have as many expired canned goods as pap’s BIL.

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blfenton

Sooooo......miss lindsey - I know you're about an hour for me, but just where exactly?


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ohiomom

Gotta go back out tomorrow, I knew I forgot something .... Jam! What is peanut butter without jam.

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cattyles

Nothing without jam.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I'm set for some time; I might be sick of beans, pasta, and tuna after a couple weeks. Better stock up on dried herbs and seasonings.

And sardines!

(I'm too used to earthquake preparedness and thinking there will be no gas or electricity.)

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ohiomom

Oooooh sardines with raw onions and grainy mustard on crackers ... yum

Added to my list of necessities ... do you think the hordes like sardines?

(^_^)

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patriciae_gw(07)

I have emergency food for about six weeks not including the normal pantry and freezer stuff which would be a month assuming we can keep the freezer going. We are prepped for a major quake. Boring food but food is food. I don't think there is too much you can do about a pandemic. If you know the history of the really old ones they brought cities to a virtual standstill. Hard to know if that would happen today. Infrastructure has to have people to run it so water, electricity, fuel?

I keep my emergency rations in metal these days. I used big plastic tubs at first. I opened them up to swap out the food (food bank bound) and it was gone-big hole chewed in the end. We have Wood Rats. I don't store canned food because cans freeze. None of my food was rat proof. Learning experience.

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HamiltonGardener

Ohiomom, I have dozens of jars of blackcurrant jam if you need some. And pickles, sauerkraut, and pear chutney, if you like.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

do you think the hordes like sardines?

Good point.

I'll supplement the sardines with anchovies -- anchovies stacked around the sardines to fool the hordes.

I hope those hungry hordes leave my kalamata olives alone. Better hide the fancy olive oil too.

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ohiomom

Oh my now I am hungry HG, my list is getting longer. I store everything in glass jars with metal lids, even recycle jars for spices etal. The plastic containers in the fridge contain my oats and nuts.

The only thing I buy in cans are tomatoes for soups and stews and, of course, sardines.

Good point Nancy ... (^_^)

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HamiltonGardener

If the big disaster comes, let’s all get together for a food swap.


Paranoia isn’t necessary to survive, just a compulsive addiction to grow and pickle things.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I store everything in glass jars with metal lids

I do too, but on lower shelves because we are in earthquake country. Far too many of those glass containers are holding different types of beans. Oh well, I'll have plenty of time to remember to soak the beans with a pandemic.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

HamiltonGardener

3 minutes ago

If the big disaster comes, let’s all get together for a food swap.

———

Yes! Cooperation and collaboration is the way to go :-D

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breenthumb

Cooperate and graduate DH used to say.

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

"What I’ve been hearing is that one wears a mask to protect others, not oneself. If you have a virus mask up, if not don’t bother because it won’t protect you anyway."

You are correct. The masks were initially designed to keep healthcare professionals from coughing and sneezing on patients during surgeries.

The jury is still out on whether or not wearing masks during surgery prevents the transmission of disease.

One of the problems with ongoing use of masks is that we humans exhale moisture and the masks end up getting humid and gathering bacteria, so they have to be changed and disposed of properly.

Most masks will not filter viruses but, even if you have a specialized mask that does filter smaller particles like viruses, they have to fit properly and be worn most of the day. It turns out that most people get tired of wearing them. The masks have to be removed to eat and drink. What if you sneeze and have to blow your nose? The mask comes off.

Better advice: Wash your hands frequently and avoid touching your face. Someone actually did a study and figured out that humans absentmindedly touch their faces about 3-4 times per hour. It makes it pointless to wear a mask if you wipe your eye with virus-ridden hands. :-)

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foodonastump

We’d be fine until Friday.

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

After a few weeks, food would be the least of your worries. We humans are generalists and omnivores, so we can always find something to eat, even if it's not palatable to our 21st century sensibilities.

If things start to break down and no one is available to fix them, you'll be facing some tough choices. Fuel, heat, electricity, plumbing - disrupt the supply chain and/or the invisible army of mostly men who keep things running smoothly, and we will have some real problems.


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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

"We’d be fine until Friday."

Good one. :-)

Friday it is. We can all get drunk. Who's in charge of the beer?

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Possibly missed comments about this, since I skimmed my way through, so apologies if it's redundant.

I learned yesterday that the bulk of mask manufacturers are guess where?

China.

And also, a mask is only of any use if you change it after you are around an infected person - same with gloves. Everybody know the correct procedure for removing and disposing used gloves?

Decades of First Aid/CPR certification here.

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blfenton

Music and beer on a Friday - what more do we need.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I don’t have beer on hand but I can contribute 9 bottles of wine and assorted liquor plus 8ish bottles of tonic water or ginger beer

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“Fuel, heat, electricity, plumbing - disrupt the supply chain and/or the invisible army of mostly men who keep things running smoothly, and we will have some real problems.”

Yes. That’s why although I am not a prepper I will always have a wood burning stove and supply of firewood, and why I’m grateful to live in farming country where people in general know how to do everything.

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ubro(2a)

I don't stock up for disasters, we always have extra food, not many gloves or masks. Personally I don't waste any sleep over this, what happens, happens.


I don't understand the following comment though. You think that if you stock up then you should be able to exploit others who, when they went to the store to get these supplies, find the shelves empty because others have bought waaaaay more than they need in order to resell later at a high price?

Finally, with the so-called anti-gouging laws, why would someone like me go to the trouble and expense and risk of stocking up on these items for all of you who don't do it yourself if I get no reward for doing it?

My answer is then only buy what you need, don't hog the supplies, leave some for others, and if you find others in need, share. No extra expense or trouble for you at all.

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HamiltonGardener

I’m going to live life stead of preparing for death.


If disaster ever comes, I’m just going to head over to Hay’s house to rob him of all his stuff.

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ubro(2a)

^^^^ just come to mine, no felony needed, I will share. LOL

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HamiltonGardener

But... taking Hay’s stuff would be more fun.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

😆

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elvis

Added to my list of necessities ... do you think the hordes like sardines

The hordes will likely mostly be zombies, I don't think they want food.

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haydayhayday

https://www.amazon.com/paint-suit-and-coveralls/b/ref=dp_bc_aui_C_4?ie=UTF8&node=2445484011

I think I could improvise a pretty good hazmat suit.

Duct tape---check

Shower curtain---check

....

HG:

"But... taking Hay’s stuff would be more fun."

No need, I'd share. But.... I'm always up for a good fight.

Ubro:

" just come to mine, no felony needed, I will share. LOL"

The problem with Ubro's offer is that is that he's not the one with the goodies:

Ubro:

"I don't stock up for disasters, we always have extra food, not many gloves or masks. Personally I don't waste any sleep over this, what happens, happens.

Talk is cheap.

Hay delivers.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Ubro:


"I don't understand the following comment though. You think that if you stock up then you should be able to exploit others who, when they went to the store to get these supplies, find the shelves empty because others have bought waaaaay more than they need in order to resell later at a high price?"

....

Quoting Hay:

"Finally, with the so-called anti-gouging laws, why would someone like me go to the trouble and expense and risk of stocking up on these items for all of you who don't do it yourself if I get no reward for doing it?"

Back to Ubro:

"My answer is then only buy what you need, don't hog the supplies, leave some for others, and if you find others in need, share. No extra expense or trouble for you at all.""

Back to Hay:

First of all, so I can attract nice, sweet women to my place when disaster hits.

Works like a charm.

You like frozen vegetables to have in the winter when the ground is frozen? Thank a speculator who risks his money to buy the vegetables in the summer when they're plentiful and goes to the effort of bringing them to you very cheap when you most want them in the middle of winter.

All in the name of that evil concept called profit.

Hay


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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

"I don’t have beer on hand but I can contribute 9 bottles of wine and assorted liquor plus 8ish bottles of tonic water or ginger beer"

Our disaster is going to be fun. Cold and dark, but fun. :-)

"Yes. That’s why although I am not a prepper I will always have a wood burning stove and supply of firewood, and why I’m grateful to live in farming country where people in general know how to do everything."

Preppers go overboard, but the wood burning stove is a good idea. In most places that aren't deserts, you can always get wood but you can't always get pellets or natural gas or propane.

Unfortunately, the smoke gives you away. I always wondered about that - a bunch of people see smoke, realize you can heat and cook, and they want what you have. We need a clever way to hide the smoke or at least disperse it enough so it's not obvious.

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ubro(2a)

The problem with Ubro's offer is that is that he's not the one with the goodies:

Ubro:

"I don't stock up for disasters, we always have extra food, not many gloves or masks. Personally I don't waste any sleep over this, what happens, happens.

Talk is cheap.

Hay delivers.

Hay

You don't know me, I don't 'stock up' for disasters that is the way we live on our farm with multiple sources of meat, our own water, dairy, eggs, fruit and veg.

You like frozen vegetables to have in the winter when the ground is frozen? Thank a speculator who risks his money to buy the vegetables in the summer when they're plentiful and goes to the effort of bringing them to you very cheap when you most want them in the middle of winter.

Think of us who put up all our own frozen veg in the winter, as well as canned, I would got to all that effort and still share with my neighbours if there was a disaster and they were in need.


FYI I would thank the speculator when times are fine and he uses his business to make a living. But, that speculator becomes a moron when they use people's desperation to make extra cash.

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haydayhayday

"You don't know me, I don't 'stock up' for disasters that is the way we live on our farm with multiple sources of meat, our own water, dairy, eggs, fruit and veg."

Good to know. I'll sneak in an grab a chicken if I get tired of caviar.

"Think of us who put up all our own frozen veg in the winter, as well as canned, I would got to all that effort and still share with my neighbours if there was a disaster and they were in need."

I'm generous, too. I'll take a couple extra chickens for my friends.

"FYI I would thank the speculator when times are fine and he uses his business to make a living. But, that speculator becomes a moron when they use people's desperation to make extra cash."

OK, but when you do need what he's got in a time of emergency, I'd be cautious about calling him a moron in that moment.

Or wait for FEMA.

Hay




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Stan Areted

OK, but when you do need what he's got in a time of emergency, I'd be cautious about calling him a moron in that moment.

Or wait for FEMA.


ROTF!

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llucy

Good topic.

At any given time I probably have enough food to feed my family of 3 for 3-4 weeks. Majority of it is frozen however, so I worry about losing electricity. I need to give more thought to having shelf stable foods that can be eaten at room temp.

I have elderly parents on numerous medications that require weekly pharmacy trips and insurance company does not allow "stockpiling" meds. If pharmacies were forced to close due to pandemic the impact would be horrendous.

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haydayhayday

"I'm generous, too. I'll take a couple extra chickens for my friends."

Which highlights the reality, I guess, that those of you who have some elements of a farm that you think will help you through a disaster might want to rethink that.

If the grocery stores are closed, everybody knows who keeps chickens down the road.

You'll going to be having company.

Hay



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haydayhayday

I will stockpile some cash. While it's still untainted with your killer germs. Small bills to go along with my jars of coins that I always manage to accumulate. The trick is to avoid contact and exact change will allow me to pay in exact cash and not get back any filthy, dirty money.

Stockpile medicines. Good reminder.

I hate going to the pharmacies and using their filthy germ-laden counters and pens even in the best of times.

As long as it's cold, I can stockpile a lot of root veggies in a cold room. Potatoes, carrots and the like. Some veggies will keep for a while.

Hay

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woodnymph2_gw

Those of us, like myself, who have been living for years in hurricane-prone areas are well used to stocking up on food and everything else. It's not that bad to eat cans of tuna and beans, actually. I also have cans of sardines, anchovies, fruits, and salmon.

I only take one med and am well stocked up that for several months.

Luckily, I live in a very mild climate so don't need to worry about bitterly cold weather.

We get a lot of rain here so maybe I will start collecting rainwater in containers.

I do need to remind myself to keep more cash on hand.

I tried to buy face masks locally and there are none to be had.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

I posted this article as a topic here:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5867219/is-there-an-official-epidemic-response-plan

And I realize that the idea of our gov't providing emergency response resources is anathema to some here.

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haydayhayday

carolb:

"And I realize that the idea of our gov't providing emergency response resources is anathema to some here."

I just glanced at your link.

"Large and small, America’s localities rely in times of public health crisis on the federal government.

Bureaucracy matters. Without it, there’s nothing to coherently manage an alphabet soup of agencies housed in departments ranging from Defense to Commerce, Homeland Security to Health and Human Services (HHS).

But that’s all gone now."

That's your bolding.

It reads like a joke.

When disaster strikes, the last ones in are the Federal government. Mostly parading around after most of the locals clean up the mess.

Cajun Navy ring a bell?

And, guess who it was that managed to be the first-line responders to the need for watered water when Katrina hit?

Walmart and another local big store chain that had the supply lines set up already. Just another day for them.

Really, the best thing the government could do is to get out of the way. Stop pretending they know what they're doing.

How to manage a mess of bureaucracy?


The government's solution to everything:

More bureaucracy.

Hay


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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

I can’t disagree with your last post Hay. I too chafe at bureaucracy (in fact I can’t even spell the word on the first try, thanks spellcheck).

However I’m also averse to relying on the good will of corporations like Walmart that have no accountability to the community and wantonly destroy local businesses, exploit workers, and fail to hold manufacturers responsible for managing the earth’s resources responsibly.

What I would like to see is elected governments streamlined to the same efficiency as private corporations. I realize that is a utopian pipe dream.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I will emphasize having some cash on hand. In the Katrina aftermath in Southern Mississippi people couldn't get money from the bank since systems were down and so couldn't buy gas for generators. Small bills. Cash is useless in a total system breakdown though. If you were going all out prep for the Zombie Apocalypse (aka any apocalyptic culture ending event) you should warehouse valuable staples like salt and peppercorns and other spices for trade.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

A dear relative, when prepping for y2k, assured me that coffee, tea, aspirin, and toothpaste were to be the most valuable commodities.

We were stuck with Pepsodent for years. Unfortunately toothpaste never goes bad (nor, in the case of Pepsodent, does it improve with age).

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Bookwoman(7a PA)

I'm with FOAS: we could manage until (next) Friday. We always have plenty of peanut butter and a few canned and frozen things on hand, but we mostly eat fresh food and go shopping every few days. We don't live in an area with extreme weather; the heaviest snowfall might have us housebound for 24-48 hours until our driveway gets plowed, but that's about it.
Our children are grown, so I would certainly have more in the house if they still lived here, but as it is I just can't get exercised about possible apocalyptic scenarios.

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ubro(2a)

If the grocery stores are closed, everybody knows who keeps chickens down the road.

You'll going to be having company.

For sure, we know that but I am not going to lose sleep over something that maybe, might happen.

Everyone will be a target, even those of you with stock piles hidden in your basements, thieves will not be selective and will start closest to home.


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llucy

patricia_gw (07): If you were going all out prep for the Zombie Apocalypse (aka any apocalyptic culture ending event) you should warehouse valuable staples like salt and peppercorns and other spices for trade.

YES. People will be willing to trade food grown/caught for things that help make such food taste better. Cooperation.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Right Llucy, I am talking the long haul. Life as we know it is over, Billions are dead, the remnants of human population cluster in barricades forts and go out to scavenge covered in lots of black accessorized with lots of heavy net, straps, studs and buckles ( I have always wondered why) with their hair gooped up into decorative and colorful spikes. They waste precious resources razzing around all day and when they get home want to have salt on their eggs. After both of the last two world wars people traded things like jewelry and gold for basics like potatoes but potatoes don't keep.

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haydayhayday

Miss Lindsey:

"I can’t disagree with your last post Hay. I too chafe at bureaucracy (in fact I can’t even spell the word on the first try, thanks spellcheck).

However I’m also averse to relying on the good will of corporations like Walmart that have no accountability to the community and wantonly destroy local businesses, exploit workers, and fail to hold manufacturers responsible for managing the earth’s resources responsibly.

What I would like to see is elected governments streamlined to the same efficiency as private corporations. I realize that is a utopian pipe dream."

You're funny. Once again, saying one thing and then, in this case, contradicting pretty much everything I did say.

Corporations depend on goodwill. They're in it for the long run. They don't wantonly destroy local business. They make things cheaper for you. They don't exploit workers. People walk in and apply for the jobs. And the governments are hardly doing much more than flying around for a meet and greet when it comes to managing the earth's resources responsibly.


"I realize that is a utopian pipe dream."

It's nonsense.

Hay



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haydayhayday

ubro:

"For sure, we know that but I am not going to lose sleep over something that maybe, might happen."

When I'm pondering this thread over the past day, I keep thinking how funny it is that, usually, the word around here is.....


"Insurance, Insurance...We're all going to die if we don't ALL have medical insurance, insurance....insurance...."

But, on this thread, there is now a lot of:

"For sure, we know that but I am not going to lose sleep over something that maybe, might happen."

Hay

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I'm stocked up with rhizomatous begonias and bromeliads . . . and beans that need to be soaked like forever. (I'm hiding the pressure cooker from the hordes.)

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haydayhayday

So I got a couple hundred dollars worth of literal dollar bills.

Rather cheap "medical insurance" in my mind. Cost? Nothing. Pretty cheap, don't you think?

Means I can avoid getting back germ-laden dirty money when and if this exponentially growing epidemic reaches us. Otherwise, I get a 100% refund!


I always keep a pair of regular old cheap leather gloves in the floor of my car, primarily to avoid handling the gas pump when I'm pumping. I got started doing that to avoid getting the smell of gas on my hands just as I'm heading to the next dance. It's a difficult smell to wash away.

But, they'll come in handy, too, when I need to go into a store and don't want to touch the same knob that 500 other people just touched.

Gas containers ready to go when it's time.

I actually like thinking about life after the Zombies.

Hay


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haydayhayday

It's easy to see how people are really more like Zombies than Zombies are.

Merrily rolling along. Ready to be marched off to their doom.

Pollyanna Survival Kits in hand.

I actually like thinking about life after the Zombies.

Hay

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Yes, “however” does usually signal a contradiction coming.

Enjoy your apocalypse.

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haydayhayday

"Yes, “however” does usually signal a contradiction coming."

You're very good at it.

Say one thing and then contradict it. Essentially saying nothing in the process.

You're funny.

I do love a good apocalypse.

Too bad we're only allowed just one.

We won't be able to learn from our mistakes.


Hay

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HamiltonGardener

I remember years ago we had discussions on this forum about prepping.


I can’t remember who said it, but they pointed out that all these prepers who made sure they had The stockpiles and skills to survive the doomsday scenario...they all seemed almost eager to prove how they were going to survive and others weren’t. In their opinion, these people were losers in real life and they were waiting for the day when they would be “kings”, and the winners in life. This doomsday fantasy provided that opportunity to people.


Anybody remember that conversation? It was years ago, before houzz...

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haydayhayday

The paranoia gene survives because every hundred years or so, only the paranoid survive.

Besides, it's fun to think about.

There's money to made understanding human nature and their foibles.

Nothing like a disaster to see it all magnify itself.


I've noticed, too, that it's given us a break from Climate Change, Climate change, Climate......CHANGE!

The new Zombie in town.

Hay

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ubro(2a)


"Insurance, Insurance...We're all going to die if we don't ALL have medical insurance, insurance....insurance...."

But, on this thread, there is now a lot of:

"For sure, we know that but I am not going to lose sleep over something that maybe, might happen."


We can see what happens when people don't have medical insurance or coverage, we can change laws to help. We know the the costs both to the economy and to people.


We cannot put in laws to prevent certain disasters from happening, in many cases we cannot do anything until the disaster is upon us.


That is the difference. In the first case we have control, in the second we do not.

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haydayhayday

"That is the difference. In the first case we have control, in the second we do not."

Which makes absolutely no sense at all.


////////////////////////////////////


I love exponential charts.

2 infect 4 infect 8 infect 16....


Hay

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haydayhayday


Hay

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

The power of 2. :-)

I like apocalyptic stories too; they are great thought experiments.

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haydayhayday

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/15/world/asia/coronavirus-china-live-updates.html


"China’s banks scramble to disinfect cash.

The central banking authorities of China are disinfecting, stashing and reportedly even destroying cash in an effort to stop the spread of the coronavirus.


Fan Yifei, deputy governor of the People’s Bank of China, said at a news conference on Saturday that the cash collected by commercial banks must be disinfected before being released back to customers.


Cash collected from hospitals and food markets must be handled separately and disinfected before depositing the notes to the People’s Bank of China, Mr. Fan said. In severely hit regions, the collected cash must undergo ultraviolet or high-temperature disinfection and be stored for 14 days before going back to the market, he added. In less impacted areas, the bank notes must be disinfected and stored for a week before use.


A People’s Bank of China branch in the southern city of Guangzhou is even destroying bank notes that came from hospitals, food markets and public transportation, according to a report by Nanfang, a state-owned outlet in Guangdong province.


Many people in major Chinese cities primarily use their smartphones to pay for just about anything, increasingly rendering cash obsolete. But hundreds of millions of people in the country are not connected to the internet, and some older residents still prefer cash."


Hay:

"I will stockpile some cash. While it's still untainted with your killer germs. Small bills to go along with my jars of coins that I always manage to accumulate. The trick is to avoid contact and exact change will allow me to pay in exact cash and not get back any filthy, dirty money."


Helpful tips from HayLouise to help you get through the day.


Hay

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haydayhayday

I just got back from The Flurry Festival.

https://www.flurryfestival.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/02/2020_FlurrySchedule_2-4-20updated.pdf






Basically you gather together 4000 people for the weekend from all over the world, put 500 or so into just one of the 11 venues happening at the same time every hour all weekend for 15 hours each day and then have them go from one person to another, being sure to touch each other as much as possible and then send them all back home.

I always manage to come back with a new virus even in the best of times.

Hay


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Rina

I've decided, in case of need, to join the hordes. They'll do better than the stay-at-homes.

More seriously, I'm starting feel a very high level of respect for China's efforts to contain this thing -- which so far, I think, is no more apocalyptic than SARS was. Certainly, though, a serious matter.

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ubro(2a)

"That is the difference. In the first case we have control, in the second we do not."

Which makes absolutely no sense at all.

Actually it does, your chart makes no sense. We can control, in some part, people's medical outcome if they have a system in which they can access preventative care without going bankrupt. We cannot control many disasters, where they will hit and how they will affect us.

If one is coming my way I will take measures but I am not building a bunker for a disaster I cannot predict.

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haydayhayday

ubro:

"Actually it does, your chart makes no sense....."

Repeating the same thing again doesn't make it make sense any more than the first time.

"your chart makes no sense"

This chart?


I love exponential charts.

2 infect 4 infect 8 infect 16....

It's called mathematics. Almost the definition of things that "make sense".

It's an uncommon talent.

Hay



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barncatz

Love the synchronized stamping Hay. Love it all actually.

I figure we'd be fine, what with the creek and woodstove, until the 8,000 bottles of salad dressing I've purchased but never eaten, run out.

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Rina

Ubro, your comment makes perfect sense. The exponential chart is fine, but not relevant to your point.

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haydayhayday

"Love the synchronized stamping Hay. Love it all actually."

That is Contra Dancing.

Recently I went to a Contra dance in an old wooden building.

The caller, for one dance, asked the musicians and the dancers to all be as quiet as they could. Soft music, no stamping, no talking. Just quietly dancing.

The floors and the old building creaking in unison with us. Very sweet moment.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Rina:

"Ubro, your comment makes perfect sense. "

So, now there are two.

Hay


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haydayhayday

"If one is coming my way I will take measures but I am not building a bunker for a disaster I cannot predict."

OK.

If you can predict the next disaster, you'll be just fine.

Hay

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Stan Areted

I hope prognosticators have gotten better since 2016 and about President Trump's Presidency!

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Rina

Funny how for some folk the 2016 US election was the be-all and end-all of history and the story of their lives, isn't it? Everything must relate to that. Off to bed, shaking my head.

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ubro(2a)

Ubro, your comment makes perfect sense. The exponential chart is fine, but not relevant to your point.

That was the context in which I was using the word 'sense'. Not that the chart was wrong but in its use.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Hay is truly prepared -- even back in 2018!

At c 1:39 in the video, a man, certainly our Hay, appears on the right wearing on his head what appears to be a brown basket filled with bananas. He proceeds towards the left, and is then out of sight. (The hordes undoubtedly swarming him for his banana cache.)

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Bookwoman(7a PA)

For a fictional look at the aftermath of a pandemic, read Emily St. John Mandel's Station Eleven. It's an excellent novel.

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maddielee

If you’re looking for masks, check craigslist, offer up, eBay or any other selling site. We were told that people buy as many as possible at Home Depot and Lowes and resale on the sites. I just checked a few local sites and many have been marked SOLD at a nice profit.

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haydayhayday

nancy:

"At c 1:39 in the video, a man, certainly our Hay,...."

He was there this year in the same outfit.

That's not me, but I did, just for fun, scan through the video to see if could find me. I'm pretty sure I did.

This was the first year, I think, where two bathrooms, one traditionally male, the other female, were turned into "gender free".

My first!

A whole new world everywhere you turn.

Hay

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haydayhayday

I spent the afternoon during some serious shopping. I think of it as very, very cheap medical insurance. Preventative Care or something like that.

Basically it costs me nothing. And, it's like money in bank, as they say.

Actually better than money in the bank because I can eat it if I don't feel like going out.

Hay




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haydayhayday

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/health/what-is-coronavirus-explained/index.html

"Concerns are mounting about how long the novel coronavirus may survive on surfaces -- so much so that China's central bank has taken measures to deep clean and destroy its cash, which changes hands multiple times a day, in an effort to contain the virus.

...

These human coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS, have been found to persist on inanimate surfaces -- including metal, glass or plastic surfaces -- for as long as nine days if that surface had not been disinfected, according to research published earlier this month in The Journal of Hospital Infection.

...

The CDC has noted that coronaviruses are thought to spread most often by respiratory droplets, such as droplets in a cough or sneeze...

...

"It also appears that COVID-19 is not as deadly as other coronaviruses, including SARS and MERS," Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the World Health Organization, said during a media briefing with reporters Monday.

"More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover. In about 14% of cases, the virus causes severe diseases including pneumonia and shortness of breath. And about 5% of patients have critical diseases including respiratory failure, septic shock and multiorgan failure," he said. "In 2% of reported cases, the virus is fatal, and the risk of death increases the older you are. We see relatively few cases among children.

...


According to the CDC, the flu virus can live on some surfaces for as long as 48 hours and potentially infect someone if the surface has not been cleaned and disinfected."

Hay






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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

They showed a clip about The Flurry Festival on the local news. I said to myself, "I know where Hay is".

Looks like great fun.


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haydayhayday

lionheart:

"They showed a clip about The Flurry Festival on the local news. I said to myself, "I know where Hay is".

Looks like great fun."

Over the years, I'm always suggesting that the locals around the Festival join me.

Maybe next year you can be part of the fun?

It's one of the best highlights of my year.

I'd be a good tour guide for you.


Hay

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haydayhayday

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

Nice Q&A from WHO.

The best protection is still the old fashioned ones: Don't touch anything. Stay away from people.

I've gotten really quite good at NEVER touching my face...my nose, my eyes, my mouth...whenever I'm out. ESPECIALLY when I'm dancing with 4000 other people in an orgy of touching.

At the festival, I also washed my hands MUCH more often than otherwise.

And, all that is being reinforced in my brain as I go out on a daily basis. I did some big time shopping yesterday and, I think, I never touched my face at all the whole time. The first thing I did when I got home was to thoroughly wash my hands.

I'm working on those kinds of habits, now more than ever.

Why not?

My new best friend. Single use, sterile napkins for when I do need to touch my nose. Cost about a cent and a half each.

Cheap medical insurance.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Avoiding people:

That's going to be a difficult decision for me. Home to rest for one day and off again tonight to my next dance. My life may come to a screeching halt.

The least contact, the better your chances are at avoiding the disease.

I've figured that, if I do need to go shopping, I may try to be the first one in the stores in the mornings. Must be the safest time to shop.

I watched the toll taker licking his fingers to better grip the paper money when he handed back my change.

At the dance, I watched people using a hanky to deal with their nose and put it back into their pocket for the next time just before they join the line....

Hay

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haydayhayday

Rina:

Ubro, your comment makes perfect sense. The exponential chart is fine, but not relevant to your point.

Ubro:

"That was the context in which I was using the word 'sense'. Not that the chart was wrong but in its use."

The point of the chart was to show very graphically the nature of the spread of a disease like this.

One day, it's nowhere in sight. The next day, everyone you know, including you, is infected.

An exaggeration, but close enough.

By the time YOU realize YOU have a disaster on your hands, it's too late....

Unless you understand mathematics and the nature of exponential growth.

That chart is, indeed, quite relevant to the point.


I love exponential charts.

2 infect 4 infect 8 infect 16....

Hay

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haydayhayday

1 infects 2........Infect 32, infect 64, infect 128, infect 256, infect 512, infects YOU!

Hay

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Rina

Ubro's original point is that there are disasters we can do nothing about, and potential disasters over which we have some control of the outcome, some way to affect it. The exponential model assumes no intervention at any stage to affect the graph. You may argue whether any such ameliorating intervention could possibly exist, given the speed at which infection can multiply, but you cannot claim the two scenarios are the same. Therefore, Ubro's point stands.

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sableincal

Following the suggestion of Station Eleven upthread, also try Stephen King's The Stand, which I'm currently reading (I tend to get to books decades after they're published). A pandemic caused by a superflu kills nearly the whole world's population, and 99.99% of the horses and dogs (cows and cats survive, also one beautiful Irish setter).

Among the necessities in the aftermath - a good manual can opener, a butane stove, matches, Coleman lamps, blankets, knives, scissors, bandages, aspirin, antibiotic cream, feminine supplies, paper, pens, pencils, because the electricity is out and they are still figuring out how to get it back on. And mass communication is impossible.

You can't help but imagine what you would do in this or that situation. A very good read. Only 1,154 pages...

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Ziemia(6a)

TY, Rina.

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haydayhayday

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/opinion/coronavirus-china-numbers.html


"As of Tuesday, the case fatality rate of COVID-19 appeared to be about 2.5 percent. That’s in keeping with what it was, for example, from the beginning of the outbreak up to Jan. 28. By comparison, the case fatality rate for the seasonal flu in the United States ranges between 0.10 percent and 0.18 percent. For SARS, it’s about 10 percent and for MERS, about 35 percent. For Ebola, it has varied between 25 percent and 90 percent, depending on outbreaks, averaging approximately 50 percent.


And so based on what we know so far, COVID-19 seems to be much less fatal than other coronavirus infections and diseases that turned into major epidemics in recent decades. The operative words here are “based on what we know so far” — meaning, both no more and no less than that, and also that our take on the situation might need to change as more data come in.


Remember, too, that even if only a small percentage of the people infected with COVID-19 die in the end, the death toll in absolute numbers could still be dreadful if the total population of infected turns out to be very large.


However much we would like to know all the relevant facts about the coronavirus, we don’t know them right now, and we should accept the discomfort of that uncertainty. Which is all the more reason to abide by one of the things we do know at this point: You should wash your hands regularly."


Hay

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haydayhayday

I rather doubt that we'll need to think too much about whether we'll be able to find a can opener if this virus turns out to be as bad as it could be.

More important things to think about. Like, don't touch your face and wash your hands.


Hay

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Rina

Well, if anyone ever catches me discouraging people from washing their hands regularly, slap my face.

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haydayhayday

Not looking good for us old white men.




I only looked at the first minute or so to get the latest statistics.

Looking like

1- The death rate inside the initial Hubei epicenter is Much Higher than outside the epicenter.

2-The death rate appears to be falling regardless.

I have a couple of questions if anyone has any answers.

Is it the case that the initial "load", for lack of a better word, of infection makes a big difference in the outcome? If someone sneezes directly into my nostrils, loading me up with the virus, will I have a different outcome than if I were to somehow get one single virus into my system.

I'd think so. My body could react to create a response to a small initial "load" than a massive influx of the virus.

Any professional opinions?

A second question:

We're always hearing how viruses that kill the host likely don't propagate as readily as viruses that don't kill the host. Makes sense, I think. If you don't live to spread the tale....

And, viruses are said to evolve very quickly. So, could it be that the more deadly variants of the virus die off with their hosts and leave a rather common cold like variant to infect me by the time it reaches my little corner of the world.

Any professional opinions?

Hay



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haydayhayday

The Diamond Princess story just blows me away.

Trap people on a ship for weeks. Forcing them to pass along the virus to each other.

"As a two-week quarantine over a coronavirus outbreak ended, experts expressed alarm over the protocols on the ship, which now has 621 confirmed infections."

That plan didn't work.



So today they move on to the next phase:

"Even as infections aboard a cruise ship contaminated by the new coronavirus continued to climb, Japan declared on Wednesday that 443 people had satisfied the terms of a two-week quarantine and let them walk free.


Much of the world seemed far from reassured."


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/19/world/asia/japan-cruise-ship-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage



“It’s illustrative of a larger problem with crisis management in complex bureaucratic organizations,” Mr. Cleveland said.

“The lack of a coordinated response in which genuine experts are responsible for decision making is problematic,” he said,” because what happens instead is that you have political functionaries who are placed in roles of authority beyond their competency. ”

Don't ever trust the government to be competent.


Especially in times of disaster.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Here, let me help you with that heavy suitcase. I know you've been declared virus-free.

"These human coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS, have been found to persist on inanimate surfaces -- including metal, glass or plastic surfaces -- for as long as nine days if that surface had not been disinfected, according to research published earlier this month in The Journal of Hospital Infection."

Hay

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haydayhayday

Rina:

"Well, if anyone ever catches me discouraging people from washing their hands regularly, slap my face."

If you are walking off that ship, don't be expecting a hug or a kiss from me. I don't care how often or how recently you washed your hands.

Hay

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cattyles

People have to be well trained in isolation procedures for them to work.

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haydayhayday

From way up above:

Linaria:

"chances are

face masks, simple ones, don't work against a tiny virus, just sayin"


Hay:

"If someone sneezes on your face, can it hurt?"

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Today in the news:

https://www.livescience.com/respirators-prevent-coronavirus-infection-study.html

"Specialized respirators appear to protect medical staff against COVID-19, but they must be worn to work.


A certain type of respirator effectively protects medical workers from catching COVID-19, the viral disease that has sickened more than 75,000 people since December 2019.


The high rate of infection may be blamed, in part, on inadequate hand disinfection and sparse use of N95 respirators, which are designed to filter out virus particles, according to a study posted Feb. 19 on the preprint server medRxiv. (The research has not yet been peer-reviewed or published in a scientific journal.)


...


About 280 medical staff in the hospital's Respiratory, ICU and Infectious Diseases departments wore N95 respirators and washed their hands frequently, while about 215 in the departments of Hepatobiliary Pancreatic Surgery, Trauma and Microsurgery, and Urology wore no masks and disinfected their hands less frequently. Although the respirator group encountered confirmed cases more often than the unmasked group — more than 730% more often — no one in the respirator group became infected.


In comparison, 10 people in the unmasked group contracted the novel disease, despite treating fewer infected patients. "

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Back to Hay:

It's a study that's not been peer reviewed and there's no way to know just how much the N-95's might have contributed beyond the ardent hand washing going on that they also mention as a factor.

But, still, given this new study, like I asked first time around:

"If someone sneezes on your face, can it hurt?"

If nothing else, it could keep you from inadvertently touching your mouth or nose.

Hay




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Tilly Teabag

Hayday


”Finally, with the so-called anti-gouging laws, why would someone like me go to the trouble and expense and risk of stocking up on these items for all of you who don't do it yourself if I get no reward for doing it?”


To help people.

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HamiltonGardener

Shush, Tilley.

Let Hay stock up with the promise of reward. The more he stocks up, the more I can take from him when the disaster comes.

= D

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haydayhayday

Tilly:


"To help people."

We've already been through this:

Déjà vu:

"First of all, so I can attract nice, sweet women to my place when disaster hits."

HG:

"Shush, Tilley.

Let Hay stock up with the promise of reward. The more he stocks up, the more I can take from him when the disaster comes."

I'm here, well stocked and awaiting your arrival. No need to knock.

"Works like a charm"

Hay

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haydayhayday

Tilly:

"To help people."

More Déjà vu:

Hay

"The problem with Ubro's offer is that is that he's not the one with the goodies:

Ubro:

"I don't stock up for disasters, we always have extra food, not many gloves or masks. Personally I don't waste any sleep over this, what happens, happens.

Talk is cheap.

Hay delivers."


So, Tilly, how many masks did YOU stockpile so you could be so helpful?

Talk is cheap.

Hay has the goodies.

Hay



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Tilly Teabag

We can still get them online easily in Aus. I just looked. Maybe because our country is not letting most Chinese in at present, people are not too worried yet.

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haydayhayday

Looking forward to seeing you soon!

"Kianoush Jahanpour, a spokesperson for the Iranian Health Ministry, confirmed 13 new cases of coronavirus in Iran in a tweet on Friday.

...

The mayor of South Korean city of Daegu said it was facing an “unprecedented crisis” after a series coronavirus infections linked to a single church service, as worries mounted in the country.

The number of cases of coronavirus in South Korea has doubled in 24 hours, reaching 204

...

Japan's health minister said the last cruise ship passengers who tested negative for a new virus will leave the Diamond Princess on Friday after a much-criticized quarantine of the vessel ended.

The ship docked at Yokohama has the most COVID-19 cases outside of China, with 634 cases from the ship confirmed as of Friday.

...


The Shandong government said that a prison guard at the jail started showing symptoms in early February. All 2,077 people held or working at the prison were given the nucleic acid test and, as of Thursday, 200 prisoners and seven prison officers had tested positive for the virus.

Hay

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haydayhayday


Tilly:

"We can still get them online easily in Aus. I just looked. Maybe because our country is not letting most Chinese in at present, people are not too worried yet."

When most people wake up and start worrying, it'll be way too late.

It could be all for naught, but, still,

"An ounce of prevention...."

Cheap health insurance:

Hay

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haydayhayday

ubro:

"Actually it does, your chart makes no sense....."


Give it a little more time.

It'll make sense to you.

Hay

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haydayhayday

So far, this has cost me nothing.

I bought food that I will eat at some point or donate to a worthy cause if it all dies down and I get tired of caviar.

I bought masks and gloves and goggles. All items that have a long shelf life that I use all the time around my house.

Like money in the bank...

Oh, I got some of that, too.

It never goes out of style.


Edit:

I almost forgot the most important part:

Beer and Wine!

It ages well.

Hay

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Not to worry, April is right around the corner....

....use the summer to eat, drink, and be merry, as it will mutate by next year.



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haydayhayday

Eat, Drink and be Merry?

The really tough part for me is when I'll need to stop being so Merry at the local bars.

I've got Eat and Drink covered, I think.


Hay

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haydayhayday

I did order a lot of tea last night.

I like Chinese tea.

"Lung Chings are famous worldwide as some of the best Chinese green teas. Our Lung Ching is made by a respected producer two hours beyond the traditional area. The small green leaves make for a brew that has a mild and sweet almost nut-like flavor. Since Lung Ching teas remain in consistently high demand, the price is dictated by the market."

Hay

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Use gloves when handling those tea bags, and don't just steep it, boil that tea from China really really good, you never know who picked those leaves.

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haydayhayday

I plan on letting the tea sit in its box at the post office for a week and then put it into quarantine for 14 days.

Hay

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Tilly Teabag

Hay, I do still have P2 masks from the bushfire smoke problem last month.

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haydayhayday

Tilly;

"Hay, I do still have P2 masks from the bushfire smoke problem last month."

Now you're talking!

Hay

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Tilly Teabag

And you should take up dancing the Twist. No contact.

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Wants to Grow

The city of Costa Mesa filed an injunction Friday to block the transfer of up to 50 confirmed coronavirus patients from near Sacramento.

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/02/21/costa-mesa-asks-court-to-stop-relocation-of-patients-diagnosed-with-coronavirus-to-fairview-development-center/

Guess there are more US cases than the current reported count of 35.


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haydayhayday

Hay from above asks:

"I have a couple of questions if anyone has any answers.

Is it the case that the initial "load", for lack of a better word, of infection makes a big difference in the outcome? If someone sneezes directly into my nostrils, loading me up with the virus, will I have a different outcome than if I were to somehow get one single virus into my system.

I'd think so. My body could react to create a response to a small initial "load" than a massive influx of the virus.

Any professional opinions?"


Here is one professionals answer to that question:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/21/who-is-most-at-risk-of-contracting-coronavirus


"Repeated exposure puts you more at risk of contracting the virus, but does it make an infection worse?

Pankhania said that at present it was thought there was only one form of the virus in circulation, so doctors were not being exposed to a more serious strain.



But Heymann said that if doctors did become exposed to the virus, it might be in a higher dose than would have occurred in a social context – for example, they might come into contact with bodily fluids. “If there is a massive inoculum of virus, that could make it a more overwhelming infection,” he said."


Which is pretty much what I, Naive Medical Professional, Hay, would have thought.

The less you expose yourself, the better off you are. In many ways.

Hay

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how2girl

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-22/27-day-incubation-period-coronavirus-china-covid-19/11991604?pfmredir=sm

A 70-year-old man in China's Hubei Province was infected with coronavirus but did not show symptoms until 27 days later, the local government said on Saturday, meaning the virus' incubation period could be much longer than the presumed 14 days.

The development could complicate efforts to deal with the virus which has killed over 2,300 people in China and is now spreading in South Korea.


Clusters of infection in northern Italy (30 infected, 2 fatalities) & Iran, both with no known links (yet).

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haydayhayday

I keep thinking about all this as I go about my daily business.

Last night I was in a semi-crowded dance place.

We could just as well have been on the Diamond Princess, spreading our germs around.

The fans are always going full blast meaning that the last cough doesn't settle onto the floor. It keeps getting blown around.

Go into the bathroom and wash your hands? I recall recently that there was an article saying that those newfangled hot air hand dryers are not at all the better, more hygiene means of preventing the spread of nasties in the public restrooms.

All they do, according to the article, is atomize all the poop in the air and then blow it onto your wet hands. Poop and wet hands covered in Coronavirus now.

The air inside that joint was like being in a fog of nastiness.

And, when I walked out? In the old days when smoking was allowed inside, I'd walk out and my clothing was covered with the stench of the smoke on my clothing.

Today I'll be walking out covered with a soft aerosol of Coronavirus.

Hay


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haydayhayday

Hay, from up above reacts:

"Stockpile medicines. Good reminder.

I hate going to the pharmacies and using their filthy germ-laden counters and pens even in the best of times."

Not only might you consider stockpiling your necessary medicines so that you won't need to have to go to the filthy pharmacy at the height of the crisis, the drugs you need might not even be there when you arrive.

Lung Ching tea is not the only thing we get from China... and/or India....

And when that supply chain gets interrupted?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/business/pharma-drugs-coronavirus/index.html

"Drugmakers could be hit by the coronavirus. India is especially vulnerable

Drugmakers in India are bracing for potential disruption from the coronavirus. If they're hit, the impact could be felt around the world.

Indian pharmaceutical companies, which produce 20% of the world's drugs supply by volume, are warning that the outbreak threatens to disrupt the supply of raw materials from China."

Hay


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haydayhayday

The reports in our MSM are behind the news. There's very rapid spreading of the virus in other countries that just isn't on the front page of our local news.

I keep having these images in my mind:

These are the civilized countries transportation systems at rush hour.

Japan, where hundreds were just released from the Diamond Princess:






When it hits NYC, this will be where it hits hard and fast:





That's the civilized world. In third world countries it's even worse.

Hay

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Tilly Teabag

Maybe more people will work online from home.

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Ziemia(6a)

"The reports in our MSM are behind the news. There's very rapid spreading of the virus in other countries that just isn't on the front page of our local news."

*******

Is there a reason for ^^^^^^^^?

****

"Thousands of Russian-linked social media accounts have launched a coordinated effort to spread misinformation and alarm about coronavirus, disrupting global efforts to fight the epidemic, US officials have said.

.....

Several thousand online accounts – previously identified for airing Russian-backed messages on major events such as the war in Syria, the Yellow Vest protests in France and Chile’s mass demonstrations – are posting “near identical” messages about the coronavirus, according to a report prepared for the state department’s Global Engagement Center and seen by the AFP.

The accountsare run by humans, not bots, and post at similar times in English, Spanish, Italian, German and French. They can be linked back to Russian proxies, or carry messages similar to Russian-backed outlets such as RT and Sputnik, the report said."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/22/coronavirus-russia-disinformation-campaign-us-officials

PS: in any case, I am hearing a lot about the growing concern. (& Japan really helped the virus.)

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lurker111

These are the civilized countries transportation systems at rush hour.

When it hits NYC, this will be where it hits hard and fast:

I could never live like that. I wouldn't be able to breath.

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JodiK

As a matter of normal life on a farm, gloves, masks, and a host of other supplies that wouldn't be the norm for urban or suburban areas are kept on hand... as are the means to survive lengthy periods of time without contact from anyone outside the farm.

Keep your gold, etc... skill sets are much more trade-able commodities when disaster strikes.

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Stan Areted

The people in the cities would be the first to perish in most modern day scenarios of a crisis, I would think.

The sheer volume of competition for supplies, the lack of education for survival techniques, the lack of experience needed for survival techniques, and the dependence on commerce for supplies which would obviously be shut down, would make city dwellers, unable to leave, vulnerable and faced with using their wits.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

Anyone within 100 miles of ANY moderately sized city is screwed in the event of any real catastrophe. No matter how well prepared you are hundreds of thousands fleeing a city will ruin your day. A buddy "bought the farm" 40 miles south of Atlanta and was feeling pretty good until it was pointed out that he was all of 3 mile off hwy 85 and less than a weeks walk from downtown Atlanta.

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roxsol

...he was all of 3 mile off hwy 85 and less than a weeks walk from downtown Atlanta.

Yikes! Hershel Greene?

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elvis

Keep your gold, etc... skill sets are much more trade-able commodities when disaster strikes.

"Tradable" requires interaction with others. Potentially infected "others".

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

"Yikes! Hershel Greene?"


Naw, Palmetta area.

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roxsol

Yikes, again!

Hershel’s farm is only 20 miles away in Senoia.... Oh no! Farmageddon :)

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Thousands of Russian-linked social media accounts have launched a coordinated effort to spread misinformation and alarm about coronavirus, disrupting global efforts to fight the epidemic, US officials have said.

Matteo Salvini of Lega needs no help from Russia to spread fear in Italy.


*

The person who was thought to be "patient zero" in Italy did not in fact have the virus.

*

https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-cases-climb-to-over-100-in-italy/


Hans Kluge, director of the World Health Organization's Europe office, told Italian daily La Repubblica on Saturday that "what is concerning about the Italian cases is that not every one seems to be clearly linked with trips to China or other confirmed cases."

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Bookwoman(7a PA)

For an interesting take on people preparing for doomsday, go to harpers.org and read "Waiting for the End of the World". You get one free article a month, so no need to subscribe.

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Tilly Teabag


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haydayhayday

The world seems to be waking up to the reality this morning.

It just occurred to me that the people most vulnerable to this disease....you know, those people who gather around big crowds.... people like Bernie, Elizabeth....

Who wants to come up on the stage with me and get our 478, 899th selfie!?

Not the best of times to be running around the country.

Old men like Bernie are most susceptible.

Good morning!

Hay

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LoneJack Zn 6a, KC

^^^ The stock market futures don't seem to think that it's such a good morning Hay.

Is this the new reality?

Time to buy a case of Ramen and butcher a steer!

I'm glad I'm only 58 since it is those over 60 that are most vulnerable. Am I in trouble if I feel like I'm 68?

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haydayhayday

"The stock market futures don't seem to think that it's such a good morning"

Ann may finally get her chance to buy on a dip. You have to think positive.

I was also thinking that house prices may plummet. Dead old people don't need a big house.

"Time to buy a case of Ramen ...."

Might be too late. Just for fun, yesterday I dropped by the Home Depot and Lowe's just to see if there were any masks on the shelves.

At Home Depot where you'd usually see boxes of 20 each, there's a big hole. You could still find packages of 2. I'd bet they won't be there by the end of the morning.

Interesting times.

Hay.

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Tilly Teabag

The prices of masks and gloves have gone up on eBay here.

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LoneJack Zn 6a, KC

i have a new box of nitrile gloves that I use when chopping up hot peppers and a few masks buried somewhere on my workbench.

I was also thinking that house prices may plummet. Dead old people don't need a big house.

Why did I bust my butt to pay my house off early if I am going to die relatively young?

I was at HD last week and they had Kingsford charcoal marked down to $16 for 2-20 lb. bags so I picked up 4. I'll have something to cook that steer on but will I be able to keep it frozen if all of the power company employees stay home? Need to get some more gas cans and stock up on gas for the generator!

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llucy

My mom and I stocked in some supplies in case of losing electric/water for a few days. Picked up a box of masks and gloves at Rite-aid. We both have lists of more supplies to pick up this week. I keep saying, " we want to be able reduce our trips to stores if we feel things are getting sketchy."

We don't live in a city, we live in lake community of 500 or so homes in a mostly rural county. I figure desperate folks will loot stores first, then think lake=water, trees=firewood, lake houses = stocked food? Clustered pickin's before moving on to small farms, particularly the often less visible Amish & Mennonite farms.

Sometimes I feel I'm on a wavy line between feeling prepared and feeling paranoid. Over canned food and bottled water.
#sux




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Jonnygun(zone 7)

I have just accepted that if it all blows up I'm gonna be boned. In order to really be prepared I would need to live in the middle of nowhere, in secret, and that would just suck. Instead me and mine do the little things, like having an Oh Crap plan and stuff...

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elvis

We don't live in a city, we live in lake community of 500 or so homes

That must be a pretty big lake!

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Bookwoman(7a PA)

At this point I'd be more worried about my 401k than about food supplies. (And to be clear, I'm worried about neither.)

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Ann

Definitely looking at buying opportunities Hayday. The market is at the level of my last buy right now (fairly recent), so not yet for me. But another 1000 on top of this one and I'd pull the trigger again. At this point, I've reached 50% of the amount I want to get invested, so I'm feeling a bit more comfortable about having enough in the market to nicely experience the up times. and feeling a little more motivated to wait for an even better opportunity to put more in. Emotionally, I'm finding this 50% mark to feel comfortable because I like both the ups and the opportunity of the downs. Being retired, we're no longer contributing to 401ks monthly, so once I've completed this remaining 50%, it's very likely a stay the course scenario for the rest of our lives.

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llucy

@elvis: We don't live in a city, we live in lake community of 500 or so homes

That must be a pretty big lake!

I dunno. Big enough to water ski. Narrow enough to see neighbors across on their dock. Community consists of homes in a 1500 acre parcel, not just on the lake. Sort of a subdivision created in middle of nowhere initially as a weekend retreat for people living in nearby cities and a place to retire. Like my parents who built a house here 30 years ago.


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catkinZ8a

Speaking of hordes...

‘The Hunt’ Shows Liberals Murdering Conservatives. Do We Really Need That Right Now?

This week’s tragic mass shootings reportedly have Universal Pictures “re-evaluating its strategy” for “The Hunt,” a forthcoming satire film that depicts elite liberals hunting “MAGA types” for sport. A Wednesday article in The Hollywood Reporter spotlighted internal deliberations over the movie, which stars Hilary Swank and is slated for release on Sept. 27.

According to the report, ESPN has already pulled ads for the film, originally titled “Red State Vs. Blue State,” which “features guns blazing along with other ultra-violent killings as the elites pick off their prey.” The trailer does a pretty good job illustrating why Universal is grappling with the film in light of recent tragedies.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

I wish they would just release it. I like violent nonsensical movies.

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haydayhayday

llucy:


"I keep saying, " we want to be able reduce our trips to stores if we feel things are getting sketchy.""

I think that's the goal. Just reduce your exposure in any way you can.

Although I'm pretty convinced that it might very well catch up with me no matter what I do. If that's the case, should I delay it or go for it right up front and beat the crowd? The hospitals may be full and the healthcare workers all gone by the time I come out of hiding and catch the virus.


Johnny:

"I have just accepted that if it all blows up I'm gonna be boned. In order to really be prepared I would need to live in the middle of nowhere, in secret,"

I don't know that I'd expect the city-dwelling hordes to come streaming out of NYC and head for the country side to rampage. I don't think civilization will collapse. Mostly because there seems to be a lot of people for whom it's not much more than a bad cold. So, the vast majority will get a few sniffles and be right back at work.

The ones to die will be the old and sick. They weren't that productive to begin with.

In the initial phases I'd imagine the worst that you'll find is bare shelves at the supermarket when the first few cases start showing up in NYC.

Interesting times.

Hay



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haydayhayday

"In the initial phases I'd imagine the worst that you'll find is bare shelves at the supermarket when the first few cases start showing up in NYC."


https://www.businessinsider.com/italy-under-coronavirus-lockdown-photos-2020-2#a-resident-named-andrea-casilas-in-voeuganeo-a-town-thats-blocked-off-told-the-ap-this-wasnt-a-very-exciting-place-to-begin-with-since-we-cant-go-to-the-bar-theres-no-much-left-to-do-19

Lining up at the supermarket in Italy.


And this is what you find when you do manage to get inside.

Hay

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Tilly Teabag

I bet the celebs go first, pasta rest.

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haydayhayday

Meanwhile, In Korea.

People crowding into a store selling face masks.

People lined up for face masks.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Tilly:

"I bet the celebs go first, pasta rest."

It was the H1N1 case where there was a limited amount of the vaccine when it was first released.

It was during Obama's administration.

In a convoluted, tricky fashion it was the government workers who were first in line.

In socialist Canada, it was a hockey team.

Hay



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haydayhayday


Hay

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Tilly Teabag

Well here’s my shopping list, might as well stock up, we are coming into Autumn so I would anyway


Bins

Tissues, bulk,

toilet paper, bulk

Airway puffer

Honey

Eucalyptus oil

Cough medicine

Rubbish bags incl small

Eucalyptus disinfectant

Enzyme drain cleaner

Shower cleaner

Glen 20 original

Disinfectant liquid hand soap

Regular hand soap



We don’t need to buy lemons as we have a tree.

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Tilly Teabag

Take care of your immune system by getting proper sleep, at least eight hours a night.

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haydayhayday

I'm impressed with the relatively good selection of foods available for anyone wanting to stock up.

We've come a long way from the days of heavily salted pork and mushy, canned home goods.

Tasty, in comparison, food in a can today with a shelf life for a year or two.


Hay




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petalique

Dr. Matt McCarthy*, NY Presbyterian Hospital just interviewed & said that the CDC test is flawed, only a few hundred people in the US have been tested. It is not clear how to best or accurately test for this new virus. That is necessary before the development of a vaccine, he stated.

* McCarthy is an expert and published author on containing superbugs, and epidemiology.

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llucy

Hay: Tasty, in comparison, food in a can today with a shelf life for a year or two.

Tasty in comparison to what? I don't expect great taste from canned food. Seasonings /condiments help. :) !

I've been a bit surprised about stamped dates though recently...6 to 18 months. Were the dates longer...3+ years at one time?

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haydayhayday

"Tasty in comparison to what?"

In comparison to the home-canned "corn on a cob" and preserved-with-salt pork meals that I survived on as a kid.

Hay


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haydayhayday

"Tasty in comparison to what?"

Organic, too!

"Best before 11/2022"

(https://www.amys.com/our-foods?onthemenu%5B0%5D=soups&items=24)

Beats mushy, foul-tasting "corn on a cob" and salted pork.


Lentil Soup:

Ingredients

Filtered Water, Organic Green Lentils, Organic Celery, Organic Carrots, Organic Onions, Organic Potatoes, Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Sea Salt, Bay Leaves.




Hay


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llucy

@Hay

Ah, I may understand. I had a grandma who loved pickled pigs feet. Another who liked cow tongue, brains, and liver.

My mother has not ever had any of these foods in her own home. shrug?

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petalique

^^^ I suppose you’re not interested in the “best if used by 1998 can of chicken soup I found in the cellar?

TIPS:

Use separate shoes for “out there” and for inside house.

Don’t use valet parking

Find a youtube video of how to make your very own metal screen mesh, ionizing, arcing ozone generating face mask. Just don’t touch the metal mesh with wet hands.

Swim goggles or splash masks

Find out the best way to disinfect your coins and bills — hot oven, clothes line, microwave, hair dryer.

But don’t worry, as soon as the weather warms up, he assures us, no more novel corona virus. Poof.

Lonelyjack — maybe just make a lot of jerky.

Wonder if I should start tomatoes from seed, after all. Is Tang nutritious? Koolaid?

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elvis

Turkey Spam is delish.

___________

Wonder if I should start tomatoes from seed, after all.

Depends on where you live, it's too early for me. I'll start as usual, mid-March.

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haydayhayday

The Middle East is exploding with this virus.



Iranian lawmaker says he has tested positive for coronavirus

"Iranian MP Mahmoud Sadeghi says he has tested positive for COVID-19, hours after the country’s deputy health minister was diagnosed with the novel coronavirus.

Sadeghi, an anti-government reformist, says in a tweet in Persian that he has “little hope of living in this world,” indicating he doesn’t believe he will survive. ”

Hay

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haydayhayday


Switzerland reports first case of new coronavirus

Switzerland reports its first case of new coronavirus, after outbreaks were identified in its main neighbors Austria, France, Germany and Italy.

“It’s confirmed,” a spokeswoman for Switzerland’s federal health office tells AFP, adding that more details about the case will be released later today.

Hay

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petalique

Elvis, thanks. Last year my toms didn’t do well. Not enough hours of sunlight, and so very hot and humid, working outside was very unpleasant.

So, you start yours inside from seed, mid March? On year I started too many, too early, lots of varieties. I all but had to Jack the roof up. I gave lots of plants away. Last year, the cost of just 2” cells of veggie seedlings was something like $2.50 to $3.

I want to start some basil, under cheap LED shop light and some afternoon sun, BUT, grrr, in another room, I have a large tropical flowering plant (vine) — manda* - with white fly. I sprayed it w bio neem. Maybe I should give it a long shower. Any ideas? The cooties will likely spread to any new seedlings.

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Rina

We have no confirmed cases in South Africa yet, but as one of the posts above mentions winter is ending for most of you, it is just thinking about beginning here.

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petalique


ElectroShock Contra Therapy


Hay, I love that music and dancing. Great musicians and so many good dancers. So addictive. I went off looking at more videos.

Don't worry about any viruses, your immune system is great if you are passionate about this music and dancing. And, if you happen to bite the dust, you’ve lived well.

So many good dancers and some give added value. Like these:

These two are so much fun to watch.

On another vid, these are some of my faves (oops, missed a few here)


Very good. The Asian looking fellow with white lettering on his blue shirt; the two dark haired women with pigtails in blue patterned skirts; the woman in tan with black shoes; and super money’s worth, the guy with the super long mustache and his dancing partner in the white stripes on dark blue shirt with tan trousers — Chan. Absolutely fantastic.

Musicians are super and the dancers are appreciative. Thanks for the treat.


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haydayhayday

New York City.

Those days may be coming to an end for a while.

I was fortunate to have enjoyed it for so long.

I'm impressed that I didn't come back from the Flurry with a terrible virus this year. I think I did fight something off, but beat it.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and I suspect I've been exposed to more viruses than most.

Hay


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haydayhayday

When I was out and about yesterday, I kept seeing the old and sick barely able to move around. They're the ones most vulnerable.

Mother Nature is about to do some serious culling, I fear.

Hay

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haydayhayday

And, when it hits NYC, there's not much to stop it. I keep thinking of the traffic that runs up and down the East Coast Corridor between Boston and points South. No way that you're going to quarantine that.

It most likely is here now. Incubating and ready to spring.

And don't forget the subway system where you stand toe to toe with people just to get around. And that's after you've just taken the crowded commuter trains that come in from all points, east, west, north and south of the city.

It's going to be explosive, I suspect.

Soon.

Hay

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elvis

Petal, re the basil. Direct sow it outdoors just before last frost danger. At the same time, start a good-sized potful which you will keep in the sun on your deck. That way, you can bring the pot in come fall and have fresh basil (small amounts) all year. The plants become shrub-like and will last for 3 years or so. This eliminates the trauma of digging up a plant to bring indoors.

When you set out the toms, use a post hole digger for a deep enough hole to bury the plant by 1/3. This will cause new roots to form and give you a monster plant. Also, place a tablespoon of Epsom salt into the planting hole and mix it up with a bit of dirt. This helps prevent leaf blight. I recommend the collapsible square cages, they last forever and store outdoors flat.


Why not set that infested mandevilla out into the garage or bag it (clear plastic dry cleaner bag) or otherwise isolate it? Or execute it. The flies are in that dirt now...

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haydayhayday


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/health/coronavirus-us.html

"Mr. Azar said that officials currently had 30 million N95 masks in the nation’s emergency stockpile..."

That should be enough to last for at least two days.


Hay

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

These masks wont save you. Look at what medical staff wear. Those masks dont even seal. Consider what avoiding this virus would mean in any real sense. No close contact with others. No enclosed spaces. No conversations closer the 25' at min.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Why worry? trump says this will be all over by April. Of course when it's not all over by then he can just say "April Fools".....his supporters will understand.

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elvis

This is what the president actually said:

President Donald Trump on Monday issued an optimistic prediction about the novel coronavirus outbreak. "A lot of people think that goes away in April, with the heat that comes in," he said.

Speaking with US governors at the White House about the coronavirus, the president added: "I had a long talk with President Xi — for the people in this room — two nights ago, and he feels very confident. He feels that, again as I mentioned, by April or during the month of April, the heat, generally speaking, kills this kind of virus."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-wuhan-coronavirus-go-awa-in-april-experts-2020-2

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

It's not even April yet and you're so understanding ;-)

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petalique

Speaking with US governors at the White House about the coronavirus, the president added: "I had a long talk with President Xi — for the people in this room — two nights ago, and he feels very confident. He feels that, again as I mentioned, by April or during the month of April, the heat, generally speaking, kills this kind of virus."

——

I think he, Barr, McConnell, Graham, Gym Jordan, Grassley, Dershowitz, Jarvanka and Rush Baby should fly to a hot zone and shake things up. Remember, if he’s had a gun at that school, he would have rushed in and rescued everyone. They have McDonalds everyplace now.

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haydayhayday

Have you done your grocery shopping yet?

It was fun watching the face masks go off the shelves.

The CDC says stockpile!!!!

I'm going to be watching the grocery stores now.

Need to do some last minute shopping myself.

Will do that on my out tonight.

I'll close the door behind me on my way out.

Hay

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haydayhayday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ2U4Y9_GWg

Well, just like you'd expect, when in doubt, bring in all the experts, waste their time asking them really dumb questions you could have got from any FAQ site.

"Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, Robert Redfield of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and Dr. Anthony Fauci of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institute of Health are among those testifying to the House Energy and Commerce Committee on the coronavirus."

House Energy and Commerce Committee?

We're in good hands. Not to worry.

Hay

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Kathy

They are transferring money from the low income energy fund for emergency funding to the CDC to fight COVID-19

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Wants to Grow

Where is Pelosi's bill to provide specific funding to fight COVID-19?

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Ann

Pelosi? I haven't heard a thing from that smart cookie or seen her at all since the end of the impeachment:)

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petalique

Hay, grocery stores were selling masks? What type? What area of the country?

Just for the heck of it I checked a few home box stores, Yep, no paper respirator masks. I wonder if anyone has delved into a hospital trash dumpster, grabbed used ones, touched them up a tad, to sell on eBay or CL. Disgusting idea, but it’s probably crossed the mind of someone.

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queenmargo

. Disgusting idea, but it’s probably crossed the mind of someone.

LOL- yes apparently it has crossed YOUR mind lol lol lol

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haydayhayday

"Hay, grocery stores were selling masks? What type? What area of the country?"

Didn't mean to suggest that. Masks at places like Home Depot. Groceries at the grocery stores.

Although I was in Target recently (Great place to buy cheap can goods and chocolate!) and noticed a big hole in a shelf.....where masks once were and are now gone.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Warren Buffet, who is pretty smart and tuned in to what's generally going on in the world was half-jokingly saying that his go-to guy for times like this is his good friend, Bill Gates.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2003762#article_references


"In the past week, Covid-19 has started behaving a lot like the once-in-a-century pathogen we’ve been worried about. I hope it’s not that bad, but we should assume it will be until we know otherwise.


There are two reasons that Covid-19 is such a threat. First, it can kill healthy adults in addition to elderly people with existing health problems. The data so far suggest that the virus has a case fatality risk around 1%; this rate would make it many times more severe than typical seasonal influenza, putting it somewhere between the 1957 influenza pandemic (0.6%) and the 1918 influenza pandemic (2%).2


Second, Covid-19 is transmitted quite efficiently. The average infected person spreads the disease to two or three others — an exponential rate of increase. There is also strong evidence that it can be transmitted by people who are just mildly ill or even presymptomatic.3 That means Covid-19 will be much harder to contain than the Middle East respiratory syndrome or severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), which were spread much less efficiently and only by symptomatic people. In fact, Covid-19 has already caused 10 times as many cases as SARS in a quarter of the time."


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/bill-gates-says-coronavirus-may-be-once-in-a-century-pathogen.html


The mortality rate is “many times more severe than typical seasonal influenza,” Gates said. The World Health Organization said the mortality rate of COVID-19 can differ, ranging from 0.7% to up to 4%, depending on the quality of the health-care system where it’s treated. Gates said that its current average estimated fatality rate of around 1% places it somewhere between the 1957 Asian flu pandemic (0.6%) that killed 1.1 million people and the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic (2%) that killed 50 million around the world, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


https://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hsc-scen-3_pandemic-1957.htm



In 1957, which was on the whole a much milder illness than that of 1918, the global death toll was estimated to be around 2 million. In 1957, the Asian flu pandemic resulted in about 70,000 deaths in the United States. An excess 30,000 deaths occurred in England and Wales of which 6,716 were ascribed to influenza itself. Estimates in the UK ranged from 1.3 to 3.5 deaths/1,000 cases. An estimate from 29 British general practices was 2.3 deaths per 1,000 cases attended.

Hay


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petalique

Good info. Yes, I must put chocolate on the grocery list - all types.

Any good ideas how I can keep supplied with coffee if supply lines go down? Canned coffee is horrid and fresh beans don’t stay fresh. And I like whole milk with pour over coffee, not canned or powdered or condensed milk or those awful “creamer” products that make everything last like an old Raisin Bran carton.

What sorts of canned goods are worthy?

Q — yes, dark humor has its place.

Think of the new job opportunities. Delivering goods to the quarantined. Pay pal or some solid payment system needed, and delivery without getting near the patients or subjects. Disclaimers in the even any product has live virus particles on it, or is out of stock.

Pretty tasty wheels meals. Customer must sign a comprehensive waiver.

”Boy-in-the-Bubble” taxi service. (Expensive)

Custom Cleaning with special UV lights. (Pricy and is only as good as the next visitor’s medical status.)

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petalique

Hay, are you the one who gives reports of offshore bets?

what of the Covid-19 spreading wildly in the US?

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haydayhayday

"Hay, are you the one who gives reports of offshore bets?

what of the Covid-19 spreading wildly in the US?"

I don't know of any such bets. I don't think it's worth pursuing.

It's spreading "wildly" all over the world. There's no reason to think we're not going to take a hit.


Hay

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

Petalique. Keep your coffee in the freezer. You can freeze milk too. There is no effect on taste. All my mundane groceries are already ordered and paid for on line and delivered to my door.

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haydayhayday

"What sorts of canned goods are worthy?"

My stash of ground coffee says that it's Best By August. Which means it can last a lot longer than that. It won't be the first time I've had bad coffee. I doubt that the caffeine goes away.

Go to the internet and search for something like "Survival foods at the grocery store".

Or take a leisurely stroll down the shopping aisles and you'll figure it out all by yourself.

I've been amazed at the shelf life of canned goods.

Something to keep in mind while you're shopping: A man needs 2500 calories a day. Look at the calories per serving and do some math.

My suggestions.

Nuts, oils, ghee, chocolate, peanut or other butters, fruit preserves, dried fruits, canned fruits, canned veggies, canned chicken, tuna/sardines, condensed milk whether you like it or not, apple sauce, Campbell's Well Yes soups, Amy's Organic soups, flour, rice, canned salmon, dried beans. Spices like curry sauce in a jar to make it all palatable.

Really, just walk down the aisles.

Hay

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elvis

It's fine to freeze whole beans for up to a month, provided you're not taking them out during that period. "For a large amount of coffee, first divide it into smaller portions, then freeze the portions in airtight bags," recommends Robert Nelson, president and chief executive officer of the National Coffee Association. When you do remove the frozen beans, put them on a shelf to thaw, and grind and brew within two weeks so the coffee is truly good to the last drop.

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haydayhayday

"Petalique. Keep your coffee in the freezer. You can freeze milk too. There is no effect on taste. All my mundane groceries are already ordered and paid for on line and delivered to my door."

I wish I had a freezer right now. I've got limited refrigeration space.

I love fresh Salmon so I bought some to freeze. A shame to do that to good, fresh fish, but, if it gets really bad it'll be good.

Toilet paper and paper towels galore.

Hay

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haydayhayday

I know people who live in NYC that, if they're lucky, have enough food in the house to get by for a couple of days.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Cash, Cold hard cash.

Get it now while it's not as filthy as it will be tomorrow.

Enough to pay exact change.

Don't touch anything!

I was just down at the local bank taking out some cash and was working on a technique to not touch the pad. Pretty easy to do, Just whip out the sterile napkins I've neatly folded so that whenever I need to touch my nose or face or credit card, I'll have some means of doing that.

I can actually insert my card, hit the pad, take out the money and never touch anything but a sterile napkin.

My new best friend.

Cheap medical insurance. 1.5 cents each.

Hay

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

You could avoid all that rigmarole by not using cash. I haven't used an ATM yet this year. My kids think it's quaint that I still have any cash at all in my wallet.

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lurker111

I wonder if anyone has delved into a hospital trash dumpster, grabbed used ones, touched them up a tad, to sell on eBay or CL.

I saw some on eBay that were listed as "new-other" and they didn't look very clean. I can tell you how to get a mask. I did this last night when I picked up a friend. Walk in the emergency room and tell the receptionist that you're there to pick up a friend, and grab a mask from the boxes on the counter. Wait a minute and then "go wait in the car to be safe". They had 2 different types that were free for the people in the waiting room.

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elvis

Many events could keep you from getting access to your cash, such as earthquakes, floods, tornadoes or hurricanes or civil emergencies such as what happened during the 9/11 attacks. A good rule of thumb is to keep cash on hand in five, ten and twenty denominations, as breaking larger bills might be troublesome. For emergency disaster preparedness, keep at least one month of expenses on hand at home. This should more than cover anything that comes up as most of these types of disasters are mitigated within a week or two.

- Managing Your Money, 2017

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

What is this dirty hole of which you speak? I haven't used an ATM for months. All bills are paid by DD. All mundane groceries bought on line. Odds and ends paid for by contactless. No key pads are touched. Far cleaner than using cash which is passed around through hundreds of hands.

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haydayhayday

"You could avoid all that rigmarole by not using cash. I haven't used an ATM yet this year. My kids think it's quaint that I still have any cash at all in my wallet."

Right now, rigmarole is not my prime concern.

It's not much of a problem getting cash. Now, while it's relatively clean. Let it sit for a long while just in case and I'm good to go.

Meanwhile, I can pay in exact change. Hand it to the cashier and walk away. Or better, insert the money into the checkout lanes with machines.

Not like those who are standing there punching away on the filthy key pads while they're taking out their clean cards to insert into the filthy slot.

I'm working on some ideas for keeping my bank card and credit card separated from my other junk and set up so that I don't actually have to ever touch them.

Hay


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haydayhayday


"What is this dirty hole of which you speak? I haven't used an ATM for months. All bills are paid by DD. All mundane groceries bought on line. Odds and ends paid for by contactless. No key pads are touched. Far cleaner than using cash which is passed around through hundreds of hands."

I'm a Luddite and Semi-paranoid.

Not a good combination.

Hay

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haydayhayday

I'm actually not as paranoid as I sound.


I do enjoy thinking and what better opportunity to do that than the End Times?

Funny.

Hay

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haydayhayday

"All mundane groceries bought on line."

Delivered to your doorstep by a Uber driver who just delivered 50 other packages to all the other quarantined houses?

Hay

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haydayhayday

I just got up and had to work my way around some boxes.... I forgot the most important thing.

BEER and WINE!

I need to get organized now.

Hay

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

I'm not following your argument. Using contactless I don't even need to get my wallet out. No searching for the correct change. Wave the card or phone above the scanner. It doesn't even touch it. The clue is in the name 'contactless'. There's no number punching. How can you argue that cash is cleaner than a piece of plastic which only you touch and which is washable if you're that bothered?

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haydayhayday

I think this will answer any more questions you might have:


"I'm a Luddite and Semi-paranoid.

Not a good combination."

Hay

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

No Hay, groceries are delivered by the supermarket, not Uber. Since we're talking hypotheticals the groceries can be left on the doorstep. The driver doesn't need to enter any houses and the occupants don't need to be anywhere near the driver. Providing the driver is clear there's no reason why any infection would be transmitted.

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Nana H

Highly entertaining but in reality of we must " survive " a serious disaster that demands those types of precautions chances are good there is nothing left to buy with your money.

You want serious shortage......10 college softball teams in your local Publix this AM. The boys teams wiped out the milk, eggs , bacon , bread, cold cuts , chips and nachos. The girls wiped out the fruit, veggies , yogurt and laundry soap. They both wiped out the beer and frozen pizza.

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haydayhayday

"Highly entertaining but in reality of we must " survive " a serious disaster that demands those types of precautions chances are good there is nothing left to buy with your money."

Not if you're the proverbial "old white man" that we keep hearing about on this forum.

We're the ones that will die.

The youngin's can still do the running around for us.

Hay

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haydayhayday

"No Hay, groceries are delivered by the supermarket, not Uber."

To my ears that's funny.

I live in the middle of nowhere. I've given up ordering and having deliveries by UPS or FedEx because they can never find my house.

One time I ordered some tea and after a long while I decided to walk down to my neighbor's vacant house.

There it was, sitting on their doorsteps.

Hay

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petalique

Nana, and these college kids weren’t even prepping!

floral, I like technology, gadget etc, but for the past decades I’ve gone full Demerol brain dead. I think I’ve missed a few inventions. So, I can wave a certain type of plastic doohickey with coded whatchamacallit, and never touch a thing? Sounds good if the electricity holds.

I’m not in a panic, just curious, and it costs nothing to consider a sci fi lousy scenario.

We get coffee from China, oops, kidding; but we do mail order. The vender explains to not freeze or refrigerate it. But, in any emergency, I’d prefer something that’s sort of coffee like, than no coffee at all. It’s not just the caffein, it’s the flavorful, rich, morning tradition. It takes the edge off my otherwise grumpy when sun isn’t out, too long a line, disposition.

seriously, I’m good natured. Just give me a 18 oz mug of rich, flavorful, high volatile notes in place, brewed decently coffee. I can wear torn, stained old clothes; never see a movie or go on vacation. But I want coffee.

Again, not panicking, but aware. A Washington State Covid-19 patient (“community” acquired infection) just succumbed. Sad. It was only recently reported (yesterday or overnight).

I hope people who have not already been vaccinated for influenza, do get vaccinated, ASAP. This will help each vaccinated individual, will help lighten the burden of medical practitioners and facilities, and will serve to help remove ambiguity from those suddenly feeling ill and feverish with flu like symptoms.

If allergy to eggs is stopping you from getting vaccinated for influenza, consider this. I had a relative (senior) who said she was allergic or sensitive to eggs. I did some research. Most people (do you own due diligence, research) who as youngsters are allergic or sensitive to eggs (the whites?) seem to grow out of that. The senior I refer to eventually got the yearly influenza vaccinations without any ill effects.

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

Very different lives, Hay. I get the groceries from a supermarket within walking distance. But I hate shopping and have no car. I get a delivery once every six weeks or so. Fresh food like meat, cheese, bread and fish is bought weekly locally. Except for veggies which are delivered weekly by a local grower.

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petalique

Hear ya, Hay. I live in semi boonies with an old all hybridized address. I have to give a different zip and town from where I legally live and pay taxes. The various delivery outfits usually get it right. But one of our address digits looks too much (I guess) like another (3 to 5 or 1 to 7) and, lucky us, one of the criminal and mentally ill, antisocials kept getting our packages. And, because the “charming” psychopath was chummy with the mainstream delivery drivers (manic, so was always ordering tons of stuff online), neither one seemed to pay attention.

Twenty dollar coffee orders, not delivered. Thankfully there are tracking numbers. We got our coffee back after one of the drivers had to go to the unrightful recipient, have a chat, seize it. Ha! Another neighbor had her stuff delivered to another “outlaw.” (Why there are so many screws loose bandits on our particular street will be explained in my forthcoming book.)

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

And recent reporting has highlighted how 911 calls in the boonies take much, much longer to respond to because of lack of good systems of location like up to date street names and addresses and signage - a matter of life and death.

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

I suggest you look into what3words. Locates you to a three metre square anywhere in the world. Or use a grid reference. (I assume you have them)

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petalique

Now I’m gonna sleep well, carolb! A decade or so ago, our short street got Re-numbered so that 911 calls could be efficiently mapped. We’re in a sort of no man’s land logistically, practically and politically. It can have some advantages (no one Trick or Treating) , and it’s disadvantages (no one Trick or Treating).

We are in an oddball place, any for any emergency services, the municipality with a free vehicle that happens to be closest, takes a swing by. Maybe a tad ”cowlicky“ .


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petalique

Thanks, floral. When I catch my breath, I’ll look into this. Some days, I don’t care about being found. I have to frown and giggle when I hear, see, read about these “neighborhood” networks. I don’t live in that sort of hood, unfortunately. Half the area is near convict nuts, with LE pals. The others (normals, non crims) make a point of not informing any neighbors that they’ll be gone for a week or weekend.

I came across a true crime book that reminded me of a few (or one) hood figures. Chilling.

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haydayhayday

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-coronavirus-face-mask-price-gouging-shortages/

"As of Wednesday afternoon, Amazon had largely sold out of different mask varieties. Keepa, which tracks the prices of items sold on Amazon, shows that a 10-pack of 3M N95 respirators that sold for $18.20 roughly a month ago now costs $99.99

...

Amazon is cracking down on such instances of price-gouging and on Thursday told Reuters that in recent weeks, the company removed tens of thousands of deals from merchants it accused of charging customers unfair prices.


"We have absolutely enforced the policy," an Amazon spokesperson told CBS MoneyWatch. "We identify them and quickly take action," the spokesperson added."

Hay


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haydayhayday

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/02/28/coronavirus-2020-preparation-more-supply-shortages-expected/4903322002/


"On Thursday afternoon when Ryan Ozawa hit the Iwilei Costco next door to his office in Hawaii, he ran straight into a long line of carts stretching the length of the store as shoppers waited for toilet paper and paper towels.

Costco employees were limiting shoppers to five packages of each and hand loading them into carts. As pallet after pallet was cleaned out, one shopper at the end of the line shouted out "The end of the line for the toilet paper and paper towels is right here.""


Hay

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haydayhayday


Hay

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haydayhayday


Hay

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Tilly Teabag

I’m glad Costco is putting limits. Some may be buying to onsell if supplies run low.

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Kathy

I bought some n95 at Home Depot. Only box in the area.

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artemis_ma

If you are buying WATER right now - how stupid. I have a lot of containers at home that I can fill now for FREE. When I decide (IF I do) I will fill them with home well / tap water.


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foodonastump

Artemis - Is there a concern about our public or well water supplies? I’m stocking up on water because we don’t drink tap water. Actually I should say I’m “trying” to stock up because the shelves were empty yesterday. Will try today. But for us stocking up on water is like stocking up on any other necessity.

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Nana H

Can't find hand sanitizer anywhere. Clorox wipes are flying off the shelves. Luckily I stocked up last week.

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Olychick

You can make your own hand sanitizer with alcohol and aloe vera gel. If you can't find rubbing alcohol the correct strength, you can use high proof vodka!

Just google the directions.



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lurker111

I just bought 2 bidets to save on TP. :^) Going for more food in a few hours. Nice and warm here in Texas. 77 right now.

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roxsol

Enjoy your drive!

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haydayhayday

I went out today to do some more last minute shopping and to, as much as anything, see what's going on.

I made a point of getting up and out very early....Part of my new strategy to avoid the crowds. Figuring it would give time for the air to refresh itself in the stores. I was pleasantly surprised at just how few people are out shopping at 7:30 on a Monday morning.

At Target, the personnel told me that, over the weekend, they couldn't keep the Purell on the shelves. When I first walked by that shelf in the early morning, there were only 4 small bottles on the shelf so I loaded them into my cart. Shopped a bit and happened to walk by the same shelf when an employee was bringing out a small case of the big bottles. I grabbed one of those. Later that day, I remembered something I needed from the store and went back one last time. The Purell shelf was bare.


I was at Home Depot, Target and two grocery stores. There's plenty of bottled water and plenty of paper towels and plenty of toilet paper.

I made a trip to the pharmacy to make sure I had a good supply of the drugs I need. I used the drive up because I can avoid some of the contaminated surfaces inside the store.

As the pharmacist was working with me and my script, she managed to cough...into her hand... just before she handed me my filled script.

I washed my hands quite often. Didn't touch my face at all.

I think I've done essentially all the shopping I need.

When it gets dire, I've got the goodies. You're all welcome to join me.


The door is always open. I don't plan on leaving for a while.

Hay




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Tilly Teabag

Aww, that’s sweet Hay. I know we’d have a blast, but I’m afraid of catching the bug on the long distance flight.

Panic buying has started over here, over there too, I read


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/02/grocery-stores-coronavirus-panic-buying/


Our Prime Minister sees the political benefits from being seen to do something here, so has spoken to some companies to ramp up supply of toilet paper, hand sanitizer etc., as shelves get cleaned out.

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foodonastump

Nice and warm here in Texas. 77 right now.

So you may be out of harm’s way. Not sure which climate zone Trump was talking about when he said spring temps would likely kill the virus, but here 77 would be full summer.

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lurker111

"It doesn't like temps above 80"

I guess that means that is isn't a tropical variety. I would guess that soaking in a hot tub to induce a false fever would really help those who get it.

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haydayhayday

At Target yesterday, one employee I talked with said that the soups were one of the principal things to fly off the shelf.

I thought it was a bit funny when I got to the soup aisle and there was this big hole. Where the proverbial Chicken Noodle Soup should have been.

At Home Depot I talk to the employees every time I go in just to hear what they have to say. Yesterday, in particular, I asked several of them if they had managed to get any masks for themselves when they were still on the shelves. I was surprised.... sorta.... but not really, that not even one had considered it. Mostly I'd get a shrug of, "whatever will be...". One lady repeated the cliché, "if God decides it's my time....".

The kid in the paint section was telling me that someone told him that the masks won't do any good for people who don't have the disease, but that, if you had the disease, it would help keep it from spreading. Huh? "Yes, the virus can't go OUT the mask, but it can go IN the mask. That's what someone told me."

Hay


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lurker111

Yes, the virus can't go OUT the mask, but it can go IN the mask. That's what someone told me."

Almost correct. Surgical masks help keep it in. Respirators protect the person wearing it.

Good...

No good...No safety rating.



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haydayhayday

"Almost correct."

Really?

So I asked the kid,

"OK, if you stand there, two feet away from my face, and I sneeze in your face, would you rather have a mask on or not? Ready to test?"

Hay


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haydayhayday

Almost correct."

Really?

Funny, too.

Seems like every single photo I see on the internet wherein a medical personnel person is around someone infected with the coronavirus, they ALWAYS are wearing a mask!!!

Do as I say, not as I do.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Thor posted this image for you on another thread.

Why are THEY wearing those silly masks?

That's just a convenient photo because it's around here.

Let me know if you want more. I suspect I could be here all day for you.

Hay

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Bookwoman(7a PA)

Hay, the virus can enter through any mucous membrane, and that includes your eyes. That flimsy paper mask won't protect you. But if you sneeze while wearing one, it will help to keep the droplets from going into the air and affecting others. Surgeons wear them so as not to infect the patient.

ETA: those suits are a far cry from the typical mask, and the American personnel should have been wearing them!

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haydayhayday

At Home Depot, there are no respirators on the shelves either. I asked about just the cartridge replacements. Nope, they're gone, too.

I'd seen a photo of a high tech Haz Mat suit in which it looked like, essentially, for breathing, it was not the Darth Vader looking full mask, but simply a couple of those cartridges worn on the backside and a hose to the face inside a shield.

Hay

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lurker111

The germs are too small for a face mask. They would pass right through. You need a proper filter. (0.3 microns)

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haydayhayday

"Hay, the virus can enter through any mucous membrane, and that includes your eyes."

Not to worry, I'm sitting here with my new goggles on.

You think I'm going to overlook that?

Hay

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haydayhayday

"The germs are too small for a face mask. They would pass right through. You need a proper filter."

OK, I'll go find some more pictures for you.

Meanwhile, you decide if you want a mask on when I'm deathly ill and sneeze onto your face.

Can it hurt?

Hay

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lurker111

Might as well wrap a hankie around your face.

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haydayhayday

Silly people.

This is too easy.

I don't really know that I'm wanting to show you all the pictures like this that are out on the internet.
Hay

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Bookwoman(7a PA)

Can it hurt?

If it's the type of mask that medical personnel use, yes, in that you're taking away what is becoming a scarce resource from those who need it to combat the virus.

Masks are not very protective when worn by healthy people, experts say. People often pull them aside for a variety of reasons.

Vapor from breath can leave masks soggy, for example. Users may want to talk on their cellphones, or put their fingers under their masks to scratch their noses. Frequent handwashing is considered more protective.

Yet there is strong evidence that masks protect health workers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/health/coronavirus-masks-hoarding.html

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haydayhayday

"Might as well wrap a hankie around your face."

Can it hurt?

Somewhere in Syria.


Hay

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haydayhayday

"If it's the type of mask that medical personnel use, yes, in that you're taking away what is becoming a scarce resource from those who need it to combat the virus."

Changing the tune now?

Funny.


Hay

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Bookwoman(7a PA)

I don't really know that I'm wanting to show you all the pictures like this that are out on the internet.

I don't know either, since the pictures are either of medical personnel who need the protection, or people like you who are afraid and wearing masks that won't do them any good. Washing your hands and keeping them away from your face are much more effective measures.

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haydayhayday


Bookwoman:

""If it's the type of mask that medical personnel use, yes, in that you're taking away what is becoming a scarce resource from those who need it to combat the virus."

Hay in the OP asks:

"Finally, with the so-called anti-gouging laws, why would someone like me go to the trouble and expense and risk of stocking up on these items for all of you who don't do it yourself if I get no reward for doing it?"

Take away these stupid so-called anti-gouging laws and people like me would have been more than happy, when the times were good and the masks very available, to stock up on them for you.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Lurker;

"Pictures of people wearing masks doesn't change the facts."

Bookwoman:

""If it's the type of mask that medical personnel use, yes, in that you're taking away what is becoming a scarce resource from those who need it to combat the virus."

You and lurker work it out.

When you finally get a point, I'll join in.

Hay

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haydayhayday

"I don't know either, since the pictures are either of medical personnel who need the protection, or people like you who are afraid and wearing masks that won't do them any good. Washing your hands and keeping them away from your face are much more effective measures."

Usually people that manage to state something and then contradict themselves in the next sentence amaze me.

You've managed to do it in one sentence!

Washing your hands and keeping them away from your face are much more effective measures.

Now, we're down to talking about just HOW effective they are in comparison to something else?

Hay





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Bookwoman(7a PA)

I think we're talking past each other. You are clearly very frightened about the virus, and if you want to wear a mask to give you a false sense of security, then so be it. Do you travel a great deal, or are you regularly in large crowds? If so, I can understand wanting to be extra vigilant. Just don't buy so many (of the actual masks that can help, like the N95) that you're depriving the front-line healthcare workers of what they need to do their jobs.

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haydayhayday

"If so, I can understand wanting to be extra vigilant. Just don't buy so many (of the actual masks that work, like the N95) that you're depriving the front-line healthcare workers of what they need to do their jobs."

There were plenty of masks available before the crisis hit.

Don't blame me for the inept planning of the rest of the world.

You'll be just fine.

FEMA will take care of you.


Hay

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haydayhayday

"There were plenty of masks available before the crisis hit.

Don't blame me for the inept planning of the rest of the world."

Get rid of the incredibly dumb anti-gouging laws and you'd find that there would be many more available today.

Such a simple fix.

Too difficult for most to understand.


Hay

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haydayhayday

Bookwoman:

"and if you want to wear a mask to give you a false sense of security, then so be it."

Thank you so much for allowing it.

Bookwoman:

"Just don't buy so many (of the actual masks that work, like the N95) that you're depriving the front-line healthcare workers of what they need to do their jobs."

Whoops, guess my thanking you for allowing me was a bit premature.

Hay



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haydayhayday

Lurker:

"Yes, the virus can't go OUT the mask, but it can go IN the mask. That's what someone told me."

Almost correct. Surgical masks help keep it in. Respirators protect the person wearing it.

Good...

No good...No safety rating.


Lurker added these pics after the first time around.

Not that it changes much, but the masks I'm talking about... Home Depot masks... are N95's.

Are you changing your tune a bit?

Hay

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llucy

I reconfigured a closet to store shelf stable food, bottled water, juices, etc. I felt prepared last week. My plan was to use and replace these supplies in the coming months. Now, the more I watch/read the news - the skimpier my supply closet seems to me. I don't want to buy more canned food and resent feeling I maybe *should*. How much is enough anyway?

I feel like I want to eat fresh food, and enjoy restaurants while I still can!

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haydayhayday

llucy:

"Now, the more I watch/read the news - the skimpier my supply closet seems to me. I don't want to buy more canned food and resent feeling I maybe *should*. How much is enough anyway?

I feel like I want to eat fresh food, and enjoy restaurants while I still can!"

Somewhere up above I made the point of counting the calories when you're contemplating doing something like this.

We need 2,000 to 2,500 calories every day. That's ten cans of the soup I just looked at.

If that's all you ate, (unreasonable, I know), you have to have 300 cans to last you a month. Just to give you some rough idea of what you're dealing with.

The best I really hope for in any stockpiling of food right now is that it will mean I won't be having to make so many trips to the grocery stores. The idea is to limit your exposure any way you can, I figure.

If this all goes away, I'll have plenty of food to donate to the local food bank.

They'll appreciate the caviar.

Hay


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petalique

Bookwoman:

"Just don't buy so many (of the actual masks that work, like the N95) that you're depriving the front-line healthcare workers of what they need to do their jobs."


Last timeI checked, hospitals, clinics and health care workers were not driving to Home Depot, Walmart or Lowe’s to buy their N95 respirators. Clinics probably pay more for them as well. Lots of people use these paper, disposable, respirators for projects like sanding, lawn care, vacuuming. I used to keep them on hand. Be careful not to crush them, the filtering structure is fragile. It does become clogged, they are intended for single use, event. Not comfortable, but If I had to fly or be in a crowded area, I’d just as soon have one.


Even a beat up one will scare people away. Slap a few biohazard stickers on it, and you’ve still got something useful.


The Surgeon General tweeted last week for people to “STOP BUYING MASKS!”


I saw some of these on sale:




Apply a few chicken feathers to the hockey mask above


Turkey mask.

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petalique

sadly, people in China were resorting to just about anything they though might help protect them. Large water bottles, grapefruit rinds, ....


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7947709/A-grapefruit-day-keeps-coronavirus-away-Desperate-Chinese-resort-using-FRUIT-face-masks.html



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Tilly Teabag

OM gosh the times we live in.

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llucy

Hay: If this all goes away, I'll have plenty of food to donate to the local food bank.

Here I am feeling resentful about buying more non-perishable foods, when I should feel grateful I have the resources to do so. Not everyone is as fortunate.

When I go shopping this week, I will think of the extra cans I put my cart as food that could be given to someone in need at any time.

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HamiltonGardener

Places like Costco are LOVING the coronavirus hysteria.

Spenders are better for the economy than savers

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haydayhayday

Milk is addictive or so I've been told.

There's a bit of a run on Powdered Milk.

Hay

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haydayhayday


Ubro:

"Which makes absolutely no sense at all."

Is it starting to make sense now?

Hay

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