SOTU - reaction from the other side

foodonastump

The other thread doesn’t look like a place for discussion so I figured I’d start a new one for reaction from the Left.

I didn’t watch much of the speech. It was on but I fell asleep. Woke up here and there but for the most part slept through it. So my reaction is based on the bit that I did see, plus commentary I’ve seen, plus my wife’s.

- Full of bluster and exaggeration, short on lies. The fact checkers aren’t having their typical field day. The one I’m seeing people harp on mainly is pre-existing conditions, evidence simply being he‘s trying to strike down the ACA. But since the replacement plan hasn’t been presented, can’t really say for sure where he stands.

- It was a polarizing speech playing to the base, but the Democrats didn’t do themselves any favors. Starting with Nancy. Everyone is talking about the handshake and I don’t get why. He didn’t shake Pence’s hand. She extended her hand after he had clearly begun to turn away. Watch the looping video on CNN, it looks unlikely to me that he even saw it.

- Women in white would have been a nice tribute to the centennial of women’s suffrage if it hadn’t been used in years prior. As it was, kind of a yawner.

- Ripping up the speech. It’s hard to imagine a stronger image of defeat. So much for decorum, huh Nancy?

- Afterwards someone started talking about potholes, which got me thinking of my own street, which reminded me I hadn’t yet put out the recycling.

After recycling duty I fell back asleep on the sofa. When I woke up Wolf was saying more Iowa results were coming in shortly. After what seemed like forever they did come in. Well, 9% more that is. More than 24 hours after the caucus, still no solid results. Off to bed.

Everywhere you turn this is a BAD time for Democrats. There is one way they‘re arguably beating Trump, and that is by themselves, not he, being their worst enemy.

Other reactions?

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rob333 (zone 7a)

What did you think of him completely sidestepping the impeachment stuff?

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lurker111

What did you think of him completely sidestepping the impeachment stuff?

It's best to ignore the crats. They no longer have a place in American politics.

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foodonastump

What did you think of him completely sidestepping the impeachment stuff?

Prudent and appropriate. I said so before the speech, when I heard he wouldn’t mention it. Heard someone say the speech originally included it but he was advised to drop it. What could he possibly have said, aside from disparaging Democrats?

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queenmargo

What did you think of that sloppy Schumer sitting there jacket opened, sprawled out like he was at a home super bowl party. All he was missing was a beer in his hand.

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queenmargo

The white clad clan sure looked like they were representing women suffering lol

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I totally agree food. I am surprised he was able to restrain himself. Not that he didn't disparage folks, as they do in such a classless way. Repeatedly. So nice to see him almost be diplomatic.

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queenmargo

So nice to see him almost be diplomatic.

Well, this is a start;)

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queenmargo

LOL- that governor of Michigan was funny talking about pot holes lol, this was supposed to be a rebuttal.

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HU-885118952

To me it seemed to concentrate almost exclusively on state government issues/powers with the implication that they should become federally funded and controlled. Complaining about things such as the minimum wage law (which has been increased in MI to $9.65/hour - why not $15/hour?), potholes in the streets, drinking water treatment/supply system problems, and public education deficiencies which are (or at least should be) under state/local government control.

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Del Phinium

"Ripping up the speech. It’s hard to imagine a stronger image of defeat. So much for decorum, huh Nancy?"

^ I honestly cannot wait to see how the Left attempts to defend this.

I couldn't think of a better way to prove the skeptics wrong about "women being too emotional to hold a position of power" than allowing your seething rage to get the best of you and throwing a hissy fit like that, on national television, for the whole world to see. (sarc)

She completely lost all control of her emotions. Say what you want about President Trump (there are plenty of other threads for that), but tearing up that speech was over the top petty. Last night pretty much confirmed that "When they go low..." is nothing more than a bumper sticker slogan, when push actually comes to shove.

Way to go, Nancy. Thanks for playing out that stereotype (to some), and instantaneously eviscerating who knows how many years of womens' progress in the workplace, in one fell swoop. Women, worldwide, should be infuriated with her childish antics last night, yet, undoubtedly, I'm sure many will come to her defense.

Thank you, Madame Speaker.


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rob333 (zone 7a)

She should've done more than rip a pile of lies neatly in half. But she has more diplomacy than to do that. And all you guys can come up with is a picture of her clapping. That's the worst you have? C'mon. She's far better at this than he is.

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HU-885118952

Ripping up the names of our dead, our heroes and our children is applauded by the Left. Wow.

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ubro(2a)

"Ripping up the speech. It’s hard to imagine a stronger image of defeat. So much for decorum, huh Nancy?"

^ I honestly cannot wait to see how the Left attempts to defend this.

No need, the right has abdicated any responsibility to curb Trump's inappropriate behaviours, so why should the Dems feel the need to criticize Pelosi?


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HU-885118952

The speech Trump handed Pelosi was NOT a courtesy copy. It was an official document belonging to the United States government & Trump was required by Art II, § 3 to give it to Congress. As the Speaker of the House, Pelosi was given the official record.

"The President shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient.”

So, great going, "resistance".

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Del Phinium

"No need, the right has abdicated any responsibility to curb Trump's inappropriate behaviours, so why should the Dems feel the need to criticize Pelosi?"

^ Translation: "But MOM! THEY started it!"

Got it. Thanks. "When they go low..." LOL

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Nana H

It was inappropriate for Pelosi to rip it up just as it was inappropriate for Trump to blatantly lie to the American people.

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queenmargo

LOL

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lurker111

If she wants to be "courteous" she should retire. That's the only thing for her to do at this point...Maybe prison.

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queenmargo

LOL

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queenmargo

LOCK HER UP

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rob333 (zone 7a)


lurker111

If she wants to be "courteous" she should retire.


Courteous? You mean like when cheetohead handed her the speech copy and she extended her hand to shake his... only it was met with an ugly turn to show her his back. So courteous. Yes, she should take lessons from the king of hatred. [sarcasm]

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lurker111

She knows she's being investigated for Viscoil in Ukraine. Why are all of the crats doing so well in the most corrupt country in the world?

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queenmargo

Per Food:

- It was a polarizing speech playing to the base, but the Democrats didn’t do themselves any favors. Starting with Nancy. Everyone is talking about the handshake and I don’t get why. He didn’t shake Pence’s hand. She extended her hand after he had clearly begun to turn away. Watch the looping video on CNN, it looks unlikely to me that he even saw it.

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ubro(2a)

^ Translation: "But MOM! THEY started it!"

Got it. Thanks. "When they go low..." LOL

Yep, the Right seems to think that Trump, and only Trump, can be insulting to others and everyone else is required to be above any such behaviour, and when they are not, they descend with faux outrage like dogs on a bone.

Sure she acted foolishly but re look at the video of Trump mocking a disabled person, muscling a world leader out of the way to get to the front of the line, calling every person who disagrees with him a name ( so adult of him), and then come back and tell us his actions are inappropriate and you might have a case.

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lurker111

she extended her hand to shake his... only it was met with an ugly turn to show her his back.

Very nice.

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queenmargo

LOL- at least he is not a hypocrite, why shake the hand of someone who lead your impeachment.

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foodonastump

So far we have two “RINO’s” (including myself here), two Canadians, and a bunch of Trumpsters. Was really hoping for the US Left’s response; they’re generally up by now. I’m not mocking, just hoping some show more optimism.

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queenmargo

Was really hoping for the US Left’s response; they’re generally up by now. I’m not mocking, just hoping some show more optimism.

So telling;)

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Chi

Sorry, FOAS, but I didn't watch even a minute of it, so I don't have an opinion. Maybe that's why there aren't many from the left jumping in.

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foodonastump

Fair enough Chi, but ignoring it won’t make it go away.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

The left is clearly demoralized. What haven't they failed to accomplish since Trumpet was elected? They are portraying themselves as petulant and ineffectual. Russian collusion, impeachment and a debacle of a primary...

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queenmargo

Funny, if someone really wanted to hear what he had to say first hand, they would have watched it. Not wait for the spin, the cherry picked snip its, the fake news, the photo shopped pics, etc. Easy to bury your head in the sand.

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Ziemia(6a)

Saw some clips on the later news. Avoided watching it.

Heard the part where they led the chant "4 more years" in the House chamber. They turned the SOTU into a campaign event by doing that?

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foodonastump

I’m not sure who you’re talking to, Margo. Anyone interested in seeing or listening or reading it still can. As for me, I’m looking for reaction not quotes.

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haydayhayday

johnny:

"The left is clearly demoralized. What haven't they failed to accomplish since Trumpet was elected? They are portraying themselves as petulant and ineffectual. Russian collusion, impeachment and a debacle of a primary..."

The left has managed to take a very unpopular party and a very unpopular man and turn it around. They've accomplished that.



Tripping all over each other. As bad as Trump and the Republicans are, the Democrats and their leadership have shown that they can beat it. Tripping all over each other.

Hay

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queenmargo


foodonastump

I’m not sure who you’re talking to, Margo.

LOL- I guess I am talking to Nancy's imaginary friend ;)

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queenmargo

Speaking of her talking to someone, who do you think she was talking to?

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Chi

The right seems to be giddy and claiming it as a victory, but I don't see it. I can't see many minds being changed at this point. I am pretty sure the vast majority of people have already decided whether to vote for Trump or not.

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lurker111

Speaking of her talking to someone, who do you think she was talking to?

Her conscience. Kind of like when Schumer kicked his conscience out of his seat.

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Ziemia(6a)

Ignoring what? Which won't make what go away?

The SOTU was another event where Trump lied about the economy's history. (I didn't need to watch him give the speech to find that out.) It was turned into a campaign event. (Didn't need to watch it to learn that.) No surprise there.

Many of those who support Trump see very different outcomes than those who don't. Trump supporters come in here and repeat what Trump says - including the bits of history which aren't accurately retold. Then many here work to set the record straight - which starts what seems to be a fun game for the prolific Trump Fans.

#######

The DNC is a beast of a political machine. Hillary lost because she didn't separate properly from it.

ETA: my reactions come from digging into his words (and others') after hearing what folks were responding to.

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queenmargo

I know I am giddy. Today will be more giddy with the acquittal vote.

I am jumped up tickled to death, cow laughing by the moon;)

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

I agree Chi. I think we are seeing a battle of morale at this point. That is a battle Trumpet is winning, biggly.

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queenmargo

I have never seen Hot Topics this quiet. LOL

I often enjoy just rambling on, even if it is to just myself;)

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foodonastump

Hay - Looking at the Iowa graph leaves me unconvinced that bettors have better guesses than anyone else.

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haydayhayday


"Hay - Looking at the Iowa graph leaves me unconvinced that bettors have better guesses than anyone else."

What Iowa graph are you talking about?

If you think the bettors are wrong and/or stupid, that they're no better than anyone else, then I have to ask the the usual question:

"Why aren't you rich?"

It's a wild game with wild swings, but, I can't believe anyone can say that the Democrats have been the long term winners in this game they're playing.


Hay


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Chi

I don't think so. The right has blinders on when it comes to Trump's behavior - so many people surrounding him are in jail, he has multiple sexual assault charges against him, he admitted to stealing money from his own charities and he was just impeached for abuse of power and obstruction of justice, just to name a few.

But sure, let's ignore all that and focus on Nancy ripping up a paper!

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queenmargo

Funny, now it is just a "paper"

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foodonastump

What Iowa graph are you talking about?


This one:


Labels are missing but obvious.

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Chi

"Don't see it?"

I saw your charts. I just don't see a betting website as an indicator of anything other than people trying to play the odds to make money. Thinking something might happen isn't the same as an actual planned vote. I fear Trump might win again but I certainly won't be voting for him.

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zmith

It was the greatest SOTU in the history of the country!

That's how Trump describes everything. Nancy offered her hand knowing Trump wouldn't take it. The woman is very calculating, but I don't get her motive on that. If she was trying to show goodwill, it didn't come off that way. I switch it off 10 minutes in and missed Pelosi ripping the speech documents. Heehee. She has so much contempt for Trump, knows he's a fraud, and refuses to kowtow to him like all his other minions.

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haydayhayday

"It's a wild game with wild swings, but, I can't believe anyone can say that the Democrats have been the long term winners in this game they're playing."


They were dealt a winning hand and just totally misplayed it.

Hay

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Toby

I thought about watching it but I didn't want to be bored by him talking about himself and the country. That's what Trumpers say about the Dem debates so maybe they'll understand why I didn't watch.

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haydayhayday

This one:

You could have made a fortune. Why didn't you?

Hay

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Chi

Thanks for trying!

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haydayhayday


Chi:

"Don't see it?"

I saw your charts. I just don't see a betting website as an indicator of anything other than people trying to play the odds to make money.

You and FOAS should be bookies. You could make a fortune.

Hay

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foodonastump

You could have made a fortune. Why didn't you?


I wouldn’t have GUESSED it, either.

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zmith

HATERS GONNA HATE, quote from the other SOTU thread.

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haydayhayday

...saw your charts. I just don't see a betting website as an indicator of anything other than people trying to play the odds to make money.

Compared to people who just talk and talk and talk based on nothing more than their imagination?

When people's money is on the line, they pay a lot more attention to the facts.

Hay

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haydayhayday

" wouldn’t have GUESSED it, either."

So, they're not as bad you suggested.

It's a wild ball game.

Hay

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haydayhayday

It's more than just a "guess".

Given the information that we all knew and shared, it was the very best "GUESS" at the time.

Hay

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haydayhayday

The bettors are now saying that the Republican party is most likely going to win in 2020.

How much money are you going to risk saying otherwise?

Prove them wrong. Make a fortune. Double your money in less than a year. Not a bad return.

Hay

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chipotle

Didn't watch. Dh is catching up on Unbelievable, so I watched it again with him.

I've read a little about it this morning. The thing I find most despicable is Trump's awarding the Medal of Freedom to one of America’s most prominent racists.


Contrast that with this:





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queenmargo

I think we are now entering the anger stage, lol.

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mudhouse

food, I appreciate the thread, and your thoughts.

Afterwards someone started talking about potholes, which got me thinking
of my own street, which reminded me I hadn’t yet put out the recycling.

I went back and listened to the Dem response by Governor Whitmer again. My brain was too full of Trump and Nancy ripping up the speech to hear much of it the first time.

Whitmer's struck me as an okay speech, but more like a speech suited to winning a city or state. The scale of the introductory topics was a bad choice. Leading off early with the example of a kid taking his own bucket of dirt to fix potholes in the street might be touching to some, but after watching Trump hammer home 90 minutes of record-breaking accomplishments on a national level, I thought it was an awful choice. And it made me think of a nation Home Alone. I know that wasn't her goal, and the rest of the speech dealt with other issues, but that's where my mind went.

I read there were other Dem responses. A link (I think in CNN) took me to Bernie's website, to hear his response to the SOTU. I couldn't get it to load on Bernie's site (maybe it was only live on his site (?) but the page and screen was there, and nothing happened when I kept clicking to get the video to start.) Okay.

I found to Bernie's response on the DemocraticUnderground site. I thought it was a real response to Trump's SOTU, dealing with the same scale issues in a direct manner. I disagree with his policies strongly, but at least he stepped up to the plate and tried to deal with the questions on the same level as Trump.

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haydayhayday


"I think we are now entering the anger stage, lol."

For now, I'm seeing: "stuck in the denial phase"

Facing reality is sometimes hard to swallow, Especially when you've got so much emotions laying on it.

Hay

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Del Phinium

chipotle

"The thing I find most despicable is Trump's awarding the Medal of Freedom to one of America’s most prominent racists"


^ LOL. Almost verbatim from what they were saying on MSNBC last night.

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foodonastump

It’s more than just a "guess".

Given the information that we all knew and shared, it was the very best "GUESS" at the time.

And what did we know and share? Polls?

The bettors are now saying that the Republican party is most likely going to win in 2020.

They’ve been saying it for a month. I’ve been saying it for longer than that. They caught up with me.

How much money are you going to risk saying otherwise?

Nothing. I agree with them.


You and FOAS should be bookies. You could make a fortune.


Evidently I’d make a terrible bookie. Couldn’t even get you to take a bet with odds that you called generous and thanked me for.

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mudhouse

HATERS GONNA HATE, quote from the other SOTU thread.

Zmith, you may be aware, but if not: that opening comment in the other SOTU thread was posted moments after the original SOTU thread (where a number of us were live posting during the SOTU) was taken down by some forum members, at roughly the same time that Nancy was ripping up the speech in a petty fit of rage.

There was no reason for the original thread to be removed.

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zmith

Mudhouse, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the response.

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foodonastump

Hay -This is becoming a distraction. If you have faith in your chart above then let’s talk offline. You can PM me and I’ll gladly offer you 53/47. Come with your friend Grover or don’t come at all.

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mudhouse

Does anybody know what happened when the white-clad women on the Dem side of the aisle started standing and pointing and chanting something at Trump? It was in the part of the speech when he was talking about health care and prescription drugs, but I missed what his statement was that made them angry, and I couldn't make out what they were yelling at him.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

“The speech Trump handed Pelosi was NOT a courtesy copy. It was an official document belonging to the United States government & Trump was required by Art II, § 3 to give it to Congress. As the Speaker of the House, Pelosi was given the official record.”

Trump tears up official papers on a regular basis, and then bans from the White House the people who try to resurrect them.

Right now the National Archive is destroying evidence and official reports of abuses at the southern border. Last month they publicly displayed a photo with critical messages about the President blurred out.

Pelosi was wrong to tear that document.

Is Trump wrong to do the same and more?

“What did you think of that sloppy Schumer sitting there jacket opened, sprawled out like he was at a home super bowl party.”

Not nearly as ill as I think of President Trump waving his arms and fidgeting during the national anthem as though he is a poorly disciplined four year old.

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haydayhayday

"You can PM me and I’ll gladly offer you 53/47"

If the bet is a "fair bet", I'm not interested.

I never bet on the Super Bowl. It's a fair bet. I'm not interested in making the bookies richer.

Take me to the race track with you and I'll take pretty much any side of any bet that you want. I'd be happy to take the house cut.

I'll do it with you, day after day after day.



Hay

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chipotle

Almost verbatim from what they were saying on MSNBC last night


That makes sense. Limbaugh is what is he. No medal or cancer diagnosis is going to change that.



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tapla(mid-Michigan z-5b-6a)

Hate has its pleasures and the left's "moral relevance" is a cheap trick through which anyone can avoid self restraint by rationalizing away any untoward act; which in turn allowed Puerile Pelosi to think it appropriate to compensate herself for the hatred she holds within for Trump (and the tight spot he's put her in) by tearing up the SOTU address. Neurotic Nancy's speech-long infantile antics from behind the podium, served to illustrate one thing - there is no graceful way to reward oneself by acting on hatred.

Al

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Kathy

Hate emanates from Trump’s pores. His act is the lowest of the low. He uses everyone and anything to produce his show. And the profiteer is him.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I would like current examples (Ok, last 20 years) showing either President Trump or Rush Limbaugh as racists.

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Toby

mudhouse

HATERS GONNA HATE, quote from the other SOTU thread.

Zmith, you may be aware, but if not: that opening comment in the
other SOTU thread was posted moments after the original SOTU thread
(where a number of us were live posting during the SOTU) was taken down
by some forum members, at roughly the same time that Nancy was ripping
up the speech in a petty fit of rage.

There was no reason for the original thread to be removed.

I didn't have anything to do with its removal but that's not how I saw that thread when I looked at it shortly before its removal. It was post after post of gleefully mocking Dems along with post after post of some truly ugly memes. I even saw where one Trump supporter called Democrats "unAmerican". Not a discussion that I'd want to join in on.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Mudhouse asked:

Does anybody know what happened when the white-clad women on the Dem side of the aisle started standing and pointing and chanting something at Trump?

----------------------------

The white clad women were calling out "HR 3"--to remind Trump that a bi-partisan bill had already been sent to the Senate where McConnell let it die rather than let it get passed and sent on to Trump for his (promised) signature.

I read somewhere that McConnell let it die so that he would not lose those big donations to his campaign chest from Big Pharm. Makes sense to me. At any rate, it was an easy promise since Trump already knows McConnell won't let any bills through that Trump does not really want.

In other words, they were yelling about Trump's bluff and hypocrisy. (Trump operating through McConnell.)


Kate

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elvis

Nana H

It was inappropriate for Pelosi to rip it up just as it was inappropriate for Trump to blatantly lie to the American people.

Yes, inappropriate. And illegal.

The necessary measure of protection for government documents and records is provided by 18 U.S.C. § 2071. Section 2071(a) contains a broad prohibition against destruction of government records or attempts to destroy such records. This section provides that whoever: willfully and unlawfully; conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates or destroys; or attempts to conceal, remove, mutilate, obliterate or destroy; or carries away with intent to conceal, remove, mutilate, obliterate or destroy; any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document or other thing deposited in any public office may be punished by imprisonment for three years, a $2, 000 fine, or both.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1663-protection-government-property-protection-public-records-and

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queenmargo

I read somewhere that McConnell let it die so that he would not lose those big donations to his campaign chest from Big Pharm. Makes sense to me

Where is somewhere?



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haydayhayday

Remember when the Democrats got so excited about one Congressman and his one comment,

"You lie!"

Now, it's nothing more than a big mob.

What a ridiculous display.

When they go low, we go lower!!!


Hay

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Where is "somewhere"?

LOL. If I remembered where, I would have named it.

I thought the IDEA was interesting, which is why I mentioned it.

Kate

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Kathy

You may challenge another's point of view or opinion, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully, without insult and personal attack. You are responsible for your own behavior and if you cannot follow these rules, your posts may be removed and your membership privileges may be revoked.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

You may challenge another's point of view or opinion, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully, without insult and personal attack. You are responsible for your own behavior and if you cannot follow these rules, your posts may be removed and your membership privileges may be revoked.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Well, good. Now we have bi-partisan agreement!

For the moment, anyway. : )

Kate

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rob333 (zone 7a)

The other thread doesn’t look like a place for discussion so I figured I’d start a new one for reaction from the Left.


Too bad discussion didn't happen. From the left, or otherwise.

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haydayhayday

"The white clad women were calling out "HR 3"--to remind Trump that a bi-partisan bill had already been sent to the Senate where McConnell let it die rather than let it get passed and sent on to Trump for his (promised) signature."

I don't follow the details of politics so closely, but, just glancing at the headlines about this bill, just by glancing at who the big sponsors are, it appears to be, to my eye, just another short-sighted attempt to control prices.

In the long term, it'll turn around to bite you. People never are able to think much beyond the short term.

That's the essence of so much of the ideas from the left that end up as total failures.

Hay

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mudhouse

The white clad women were calling out "HR 3"

Thanks, Kate. I don't know the details of the bill either, but later I'll try to read up on it.

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elvis

I read somewhere that McConnell let it die so that he would not lose those big donations to his campaign chest from Big Pharm. Makes sense to me.

"Somewhere"?

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zmith

elvis

Nana H

It was inappropriate for Pelosi to rip it up just as it was inappropriate for Trump to blatantly lie to the American people.

Yes, inappropriate. And illegal.

The necessary measure of protection for government documents and
records is provided by 18 U.S.C. § 2071. Section 2071(a) contains a
broad prohibition against destruction of government records or attempts
to destroy such records. This section provides that whoever: willfully
and unlawfully; conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates or destroys;
or attempts to conceal, remove, mutilate, obliterate or destroy; or
carries away with intent to conceal, remove, mutilate, obliterate or
destroy; any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document or other
thing deposited in any public office may be punished by imprisonment for
three years, a $2, 000 fine, or both.

[https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1663-protection-government-property-protection-public-records-and](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1663-protection-government-property-protection-public-records-and)

Elvis, I hope you've shared this with your congressmen/women regarding the National Archives destroying ICE documents.

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woodnymph2_gw

I chose not to watch it because I knew in advance Trump would speak nothing but lies. Past behaviors being the best predictors of future actions. I caught bits and pieces this morning. I know I should not be shocked, but I was, at the medal Trump gave to Rush Limbaugh, who has been sowing dissent and hate and division in this nation for many years.

I noted how the Repubs broke into a rowdy chant as if they were at a football game. How sophmoric!

Lastly, if I were Nancy, I would not have torn up the papers. That did nothing but make her look desperate and play into the hands of Trumpers. I keep thinking of what Michele said: "when they go low; we go high."

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mudhouse

I didn't have anything to do with its removal but that's not how I saw that thread when I looked at it shortly before its removal. It was post after post of gleefully mocking Dems along with post after post of some truly ugly memes. I even saw where one Trump supporter called Democrats "unAmerican". Not a discussion that I'd want to join in on.

Posting political opinion isn't against the rules of the forum. Nobody is required to join in on any discussion here, of course; I pass many by too.

Removing content just because we disagree with it is what Pelosi tried to do when she ripped up the speech. It doesn't do anything but make us look small.

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Toby

It's back so anyone who feels they missed a thoughtful discussion can read it for themselves.
https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5863131/president-donald-j-trump-s-state-of-the-union-tonight#n=82

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haydayhayday

FOAS:

"Hay -This is becoming a distraction. If you have faith in your chart above then let’s talk offline. You can PM me and I’ll gladly offer you 53/47. Come with your friend Grover or don’t come at all."

Hay:


"Take me to the race track with you and I'll take pretty much any side of any bet that you want. I'd be happy to take the house cut.

I'll do it with you, day after day after day."

I think the racetrack in Yonkers is still running.

Pick a day and I'll meet you there.

Bring lots of money.

Hay

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kadefol

We didn't watch the speech because there is nothing Trump can say that will convince us to support him or vote for him in November. Pretty much everything he has done and said since his election reinforces that decision. Those of us who disagree with his policies will never understand how anyone can support him. And those who support him will never understand how anyone can oppose him. It is sad how divided the country continues to be and that there is zero common ground.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Pelosi tried to remove the content of Trump's speech?

Now that is hyperbole, to say the least.

First of all, his speech didn't have much content. It was mostly lies and distortions.

Secondly, in this day and age of printers and xerox machines and other means of duplication available to most people--not to mention youtube and other audio recordings---, you honestly think Pelosi thought she had the only copy and that by ripping it up, it would disappear and no one would ever see Trump's (contentless) speech again?

Ha, ha--Pelosi is a lot more savvy that you give her credit for!

Kate

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lurker111

Yeah, I don't think the "only copy" argument holds much weight. She took the official copy and tore it up in a fit of rage. I see it as a monument to her mental illness.

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justerrilynn(10)

I almost feel sad for what the Democratic Party has become. The way they acted at the SOTU is not something I will be able to get over anytime soon. This is not the Democratic Party of yesteryear...they are now the Jestercratic Party. Very shameful foolish actions witnessed by the world.

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Chi

And now you know how we feel about Trump and the Republican party every single day.

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justerrilynn(10)

No comparison! I would be beyond embarrassed over how the dem’s acted if I were you.

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Chi

Agreed that there's no comparison! Trump and the Republicans are much worse with their corrupt and criminal behavior every day. I don't agree with Pelosi ripping up the documents, but I would take that any day over Trump's actions.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Skipped down to state that you apparently slept through a lot, since there were blatant lies from beginning to end on just about every topic.

And awarding the Medal of Freedom to a well known racist on Rosa Parks Day (a recipient of that same award) was a lovely touch, I must say!

V.P. Pence also had his own copy of the speech. I believe that is customary. It looked like he didn't even notice her gesture - as well as the president, of course.

I'll bet Mr. Trump was not happy when he discovered what had happened behind his back...

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chipotle

So what did Trump say about his health care plan? And what about H.R. 3?


For those unfamiliar with the Elijah Cummings bill ---

Introduced in House (09/19/2019)

Lower Drug Costs Now Act of 2019

This bill establishes several programs and requirements relating to the prices of prescription drugs.

In particular, the bill requires the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) to negotiate prices for certain drugs (current law prohibits the CMS from doing so). Specifically, the CMS must negotiate maximum prices for (1) insulin products; and (2) at least 25 single source, brand-name drugs that do not have generic competition and that are among the 125 drugs that account for the greatest national spending or the 125 drugs that account for the greatest spending under the Medicare prescription drug benefit and Medicare Advantage (MA). The negotiated prices must be offered under Medicare and MA, and may also be offered under private health insurance unless the insurer opts out.

The negotiated maximum price may not exceed (1) 120% of the average price in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom; or (2) if such information is not available, 85% of the U.S. average manufacturer price. Drug manufacturers that fail to comply with the bill's negotiation requirements are subject to civil and tax penalties.

The bill also makes a series of additional changes to Medicare prescription drug coverage and pricing. Among other things, the bill (1) requires drug manufacturers to issue rebates to the CMS for covered drugs that cost $100 or more and for which the average manufacturer price increases faster than inflation; and (2) reduces the annual out-of-pocket spending threshold, and eliminates beneficiary cost-sharing above this threshold, under the Medicare prescription drug benefit.


https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3

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Ziemia(6a)

"... Trump hammer home 90 minutes of record-breaking accomplishments on a national level..."

Many of these claims by Trump misrepresented who was responsible for the accomplishments (he took too much credit for many of the claims) & he wildly exaggerated many.

After all, Trump supporters were not the audience for the rebuttal.

And the torn version of the speech is now the official record it seems.

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maddie260

Let them talk on and on and on about Pelosi ripping the SOTU lies. It keeps them busy. Personally, I had no problem with it: that rip was the sound of freedom and liberty.

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Toby

Give us a GOP president who deserves respect and we'll show it at the SOTU.

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mudhouse

If there are folks saying that was the only copy, I wasn't aware of it, and that doesn't seem right. I don't know if that's an important original document, signed by POTUS, and headed for archives?

I guess it wasn't clear, but my short comment was trying to make the point that tearing up somebody's speech (or shutting down a thread) doesn't make the content of it blink out of existence.

We disagree about ideas, and some goals for the country. Those differences exist outside of printed words on paper, in hearts and minds. I'm not really one to get tangled up in laws about destruction of documents, personally; only because I think our problem is a lot bigger than that.

But I have to admit, it would be a shame if that copy has historically been important, in terms of belonging to the country's history. That makes it worse.

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justerrilynn(10)

I never really followed Rush but know that he mocked Al Sharptons use of speech and helped push the birther movement. Overall he didn’t hold back on criticism of people he didn’t like, some of whom were black and some of whom were white or other.

Rosa Parks Day...only four states officially celebrate, two on Feb 4th and two on Dec.1st . So, a bad example for excusing bad behaviors at the SOTU.

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Ann

FOAS, I kind of wish this conversation would have provided what you were looking for (it went off track quickly IMO) because, when I read the OP, I was anxious to see what people had to say.

I've watched a lot of MSNBC today and I think there is a fair amount of agreement with this statement of yours:

"Everywhere you turn this is a BAD time for Democrats. There is one way they‘re arguably beating Trump, and that is by themselves, not he, being their worst enemy."

Certainly Carville speaking yesterday (I think it was) shows agreement with what you are feeling. Then, listening to MSNBC today, there were serious faces everywhere and those touting Trump's unpopularity (and little chance of winning) were getting some serious and concerned pushback from colleagues/guests/hosts.

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Ann

Oh, and the Iowa caucus turnout numbers seem to be especially concerning to many on MSNBC.

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Joaniepoanie

As someone on Twitter so aptly put it:


“Nancy Pelosi tore up a speech, Trump and the Republicans tore up the Constitution.”

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katrina_ellen

Maybe Nancy thought that was the Constitution she was tearing up.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

That sums it up well, Joanie.

Kate

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zmith

"The Hill" has her quoted saying something to the effect that Trump shredded the truth, so Pelosi shredded his speech. She didn't appreciate his braggadocio rally speak when, in her opinion, he was supposed to give an actual state of the Union.

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margaritadina

/\/\and Dems Constitution clearly states not to investigate the international financial mafia schemas as long as the top Dems - Biden, Nancy, Kelly - are involved.

Yes, Trump tore it up.


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Kathy

Whoa, and you think Trump isn’t involved? Deutsche bank, Judge Stevens son, money laundering for Russians, quid pro quo’s? That quite a reach to blame Dems and exclude Trump, Parnas, Giuliani, Flynn, Cohen, Manafort, etc.

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tapla(mid-Michigan z-5b-6a)

No group of people EVER had more contempt, disregard, and outright loathing of our constitution than the progressives and whatever is to the left of them, if that's even possible. Only if it's convenient as their personal bulwark, does the constitution hold any value to the left, which to them makes it optional. Rather than value it as something to live by, they consider it an impediment to the agenda they would foist on the American people. For the left to even invoke the constitution is hypocrisy at the highest levels.

Al

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

What did you think of that sloppy Schumer sitting there jacket opened, sprawled out like he was at a home super bowl party. All he was missing was a beer in his hand.

Are you serious? Do you think we should care after watching the Super-Slob Gym Jordan after all these years?

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haydayhayday

Now that Chipotle has posted more details about HR3:

"This bill establishes several programs and requirements relating to the prices of prescription drugs.....

It's just what I expected. Short term thinking. You think you can arbitrarily decide what the price should be and expect the producers of the new drugs don't take notice?

Hay:

"I don't follow the details of politics so closely, but, just glancing at the headlines about this bill, just by glancing at who the big sponsors are, it appears to be, to my eye, just another short-sighted attempt to control prices.

In the long term, it'll turn around to bite you. People never are able to think much beyond the short term.

That's the essence of so much of the ideas from the left that end up as total failures."


If you think this totalitarian approach to "controlling drug prices" is such a good idea, then why not go the whole way. Make the drugs totally free. Nonsense, huh? But a little bit is OK? Nonsense.

Just talk from people who simply have no clue.

Hay

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haydayhayday

FOAS:


This one:


If I say that the odds of getting "snake eyes" on a single throw of the pair of dice is


Yes .0277777777

No .9722222222

and then we throw the dice one time and it comes up with snake eyes, would you say the bettors have no clue?


Hay


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haydayhayday

chipotle:


For those unfamiliar with the Elijah Cummings bill ---


Elijah knows about as much about Economics and history as most of you.

He's a politician and a lawyer. He knows how to make laws.



"Elijah Cummings....graduated in 1973 with a Bachelor's degree in Political Science.


Cummings graduated from law school at the University of Maryland School of Law, receiving his Juris Doctor in 1976, and was admitted to the bar in Maryland later that year.He practiced law for 19 years before first being elected to the House in the 1996 elections."


If I want economic advice, I go talk to Vinnie, my cousin who works as a butcher.
If I want legal advice, I go talk to a lawyer.


Hay

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mariagrazia

I'm curious - what makes people think Rush Limbaugh is a racist? Are you aware that the producer of the Limbaugh show is black and has worked with Limbaugh for decades?

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Chi

Viewership was down sharply this year compared to last. Nielsen estimated that 37.2 million people watched Trump's speech, down from 46.8 million people last year. It's not unusual for viewership to decrease the longer a President is in office, but I'm surprised how big of a decrease that was.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Rep. Cummings passed away in Oct. of last year. I believe the bill is named in honor of him, not written by him.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3

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haydayhayday

FOAS:


This one:


One nice thing about this bettors: They're on top of the news and the first to make the reports to the rest of us who sleep.

https://results.thecaucuses.org/



Hay


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haydayhayday

I heard it here first. Just now. The market flipped really quickly.

https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/5241/Who-will-win-the-2020-Iowa-Democratic-caucuses


Read the comments from people who spend all day there. They're the ones to follow if you want the latest news.


The bettors may not always be right, but they're on top of the latest news. A good reason to keep them in mind.

Sill a wild horse race, but there's the latest news.

Hay

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haydayhayday

The betting markets.... the Stock Market being the biggest example.... is a "leading indicator".

And here's a good example.

Things could still turn. That's not the point. The point is, "you heard it here first."

Why I'm tuned in to the betting markets.

Hay

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mellyc123

Chi,

No one should be surprised the viewing is low or that it has decreased that much.

DH asked me if I was going to watch, and my answer was..No, he will probably do or say something stupid and it will be annoying enough to watch or hear about it tomorrow, no need to watch it live.

Often other conversations are similar to... hey did you see the news.. answer. ughh what did he do now?

I don't think I am the only non Democrat that avoids political news as much as possible or wishes we had a better options during the last election.

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