No Witnesses at Impeachment

elvis

Nay - 51

Yes - 49

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Yeah! A Great Victory....for a miscarriage of justice.

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patriciae_gw(07)

It was expected of course but I did hope I was wrong. I wanted to believe that someone else would want to actually possibly exonerating this president but they didn't. Republicans with whitewash this sepulcher but it will still smell.

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Chi

Not surprising. GOP Senators are a bunch of cowards who are too afraid of the truth to do the right thing. I hope they all lose their seats when they are up for re-election.

The truth will come out, and all of those Senators will have to answer for it. I think this will backfire on them big time.

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justerrilynn(10)

Democrats 17 witnesses, Republicans 0. Democrats handled the whole thing like cheating children. I bet they are mad that they couldn’t drag it out to keep Bernie off his game.

And, NOTHING Has Changed! Except...Trump has gone up a few points.

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foodonastump

Nay - 51

Yes - 49


Hmmm. I heard

No - 51

Aye - 49

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Stan Areted

One Clown Show on the way out more to come get busy Pelosi Schumer Nadler and Schiff.

Try the A team next time.

Oh that was the A team.

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Iris GW

Now the voters get to decide ... whether to re-elect those 51 Senators.

Good luck.

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Annie Deighnaugh

While I'm most upset that there won't be any witnesses, even if bolton and parnas testified, I'm sure it wouldn't have changed the vote for guilt at all...trump has the gop senators too cowed for any of them to stand up to him. He's a mobster through and through and eliot ness is nowhere to be found.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I didn't expect witnesses of course. I was just hoping that at least one more Republican cared about our system of governance. If any of them believed Trump to be innocent they would have wanted witnesses. Do they not believe in Trump at all? Are they all going to protect someone they do not trust to be telling them any sort of truth? Only two Republicans were willing to see him exonerated if possible or shown to be guilty. No confidence.

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adoptedbyhounds

"GOP Senators are a bunch of cowards who are too afraid of the truth to do the right thing."

Nah. GOP Senators know better than to underestimate the intelligence of their constituents. Far from being "cowards" these senators rightly refused to participate in Dem's preposterous Trump/Russia Hoax. Dems have continued to talk down to Trump and his supporters, as if we really are as off-the-charts stupid as they imagine.

It was not a smart move when Hillary did it. No idea what makes the opposition think being rude and dismissive of middle America is helpful to their cause now.

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mudhouse

Good. One step closer to ending the sham, and one step closer to stopping the ongoing damage done to the process of impeachment (and what it's supposed to be used for.)

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Anna

I can’t wait till all these cowards pay the big price. Then their corrupt criminal president will not ever have met them.

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Chi

Far from being "cowards" these senators rightly refused to participate in Dem's preposterous Trump/Russia Hoax.

Alas, it's only his supporters who believe it was a hoax, or that he was within his rights as POTUS to blackmail Ukraine for dirt on his main political rival. Most of the rest of us see the truth, and the slimy attempts of the GOP to cover for Trump.

Dems have continued to talk down to Trump and his supporters, as if we really are as off-the-charts stupid as they imagine.

Right, and I hear nothing but warm and loving praise for liberals on this forum. :)

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bfox254

They were too cowardly to hear the truth and certainly didn't want that truth broadcast on live TV to the entire country. It will come back to bite them and they will have to answer for it, hopefully at the voting booth for many. I think there's a lot to the story we still haven't heard. Makes you think when John Kelly is sticking up for Bolton instead of Trump. Both conservative republicans, not witch hunters or part of the "deep state".

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Iris GW

Trump would always have been acquitted. What this does is make 51 Senators more complicit in covering up. The combination of the two makes them just a bit slimier than if they'd voted for Bolton to testify. Face it, that was the witness that mattered in this phase. He refused to testify to the House. This was the only chance to hear him.

I'm betting that Bolton will spill now.

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Anna

The Dems should rejoice because people are very angry that witnesses weren’t allowed. They will pay big time in their re-election efforts. Collins realized that.

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justerrilynn(10)

Democrats 17 witnesses.

Republicans “0” witnesses.

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Chi

Collins was given a hall pass by McConnell to help her be re-elected. He knew he had the votes without her, and now she can claim she wanted a fair process.

You can tell which GOP members get hall passes because no one turns on them. The ones who go against the grain, like McCain, are quickly dragged through the mud.

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foodonastump

Republicans “0” witnesses.

Guess they didn’t want any enough.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

The House Dems did not allow witnesses they did not select. They did not allow various lines of Rep questioning. The House Dens would not even release transcripts of the 18th witness or allow whistleblower to be deposed. President counsel not allowed in entire House process. And they scream cover-up and unfair? They just hoped to get President Trump off the ballot.

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Chi

They just hoped to get President Trump off the ballot.

I don't think that's true at all. I think any other Republican would easily win the next election. Trump is our best chance at getting a Dem in the White House next year.

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justerrilynn(10)

Nancy really screwed the whole sham up. She skipped part of the beginning process in a rush. You should be mad at Nancy for not getting more than your 17 witnesses.

Edited:

If I were you I would also be upset that Shifty was face forward. He has lied so many times about having the goods that he’s hard to take seriously. Over all you could not have had worse optics.

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Chi

I think Pelosi was brilliant. Trump's legacy will now and forever be the third President to ever be impeached, and the very first one impeached in his first term. Long after people have forgotten the details, this will follow his name in the history books for the rest of time.

And her delay let crucial information out into the light. We all knew the Senate would never let anything happen to their precious leader but the court of public opinion is what matters now.

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justerrilynn(10)

Trump will forever be acquitted !

Democrats will forever be known as corrupt and how the one sided impeachment was really a fake.


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Anna

I think Pelosi and Schiff were brilliant. We have all the smart people on our side. I know Collins was given a pass but the people in Maine aren’t stupid. As for Mitt, he hates trumps guts so no surprise there.

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Chi

Trump will forever be acquitted !

All of our impeached presidents have been acquitted. Nothing special or unique about Trump being acquitted. He'll still be one of the select few impeached Presidents.

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justerrilynn(10)

It wasn’t a real impeachment. Only democrats onboard.

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Iris GW

Actually, McConnell should have saved someone else - Collins has been targeted for some time now. She'll have a tough time.

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bfox254

Don't kid yourself, the impeachment was very real. The history books will document it and there won't be any asterisk for lack of republican support.

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justerrilynn(10)

It will never be looked at as a real impeachment.

However, if it makes you feel better...

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Chi

It will never be looked at as a real impeachment.

*by Trump supporters. I certainly see it as a real impeachment, and i'm not alone!

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Annie Deighnaugh

Dems have continued to talk down to Trump and his supporters, as if we really are as off-the-charts stupid as they imagine.

I disagree...dems have responded by laying out the facts in evidence, the witnesses the public statements and actions by the president and his administration proving his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Even alexander agrees that the house proved their case. If they thought trump supporters were that stupid, they wouldn't've bothered.

However it's up to you (the general you, not anyone specifically) whether to assess that evidence unbiasedly or whether to continue to cling to the gop talking points that a) the president is innocent and perfect with a perfect phone call and b) even if it wasn't, as president who is working for his own reelection, he can't possibly do anything that would warrant impeachment as he is above the law.



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Annie Deighnaugh

catkin, you are wrong. It's not sour grapes. trump has committed high crimes and misdemeanors including extortion for personal gain. Just because the gop fears his retribution enough to not even hold a fair trial doesn't mean he's found innocent...it only means he's not going to be convicted.

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catkinZ8a

Show us the victim!

____________________________

Annie Deighnaugh

catkin, you are wrong. It's not sour grapes. trump has committed high crimes and misdemeanors including extortion for personal gain. Just because the gop fears his retribution enough to not even hold a fair trial doesn't mean he's found innocent...it only means he's not going to be convicted.

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queenmargo

It almost looks like they are going to cry lol lol

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Annie Deighnaugh

I am crying...I love this country, this form of government, the economic wealth, the freedom, liberty and independence it's brought to so many people, the respect for human rights it's system of laws has brought to this country and to so many others around the world.

I am so sorry to see it be destroyed in a few short years...and for what? A crook, buffoon and conman.

I am crying....so should we all....so should we all.


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Annie Deighnaugh

No obstruction

No collusion

No high crimes

No misdemeanors

No extortion

No Quid Pro Quo

No conviction

Only the last of these is true...the first six are false....it's just that the gop don't care...or rather they care about their reelection chances and not being retaliated against with trump's wrath more.

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queenmargo

Let's just say the left have been DUPED by that frog Schiff.

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elvis

If Schiff, Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler, & company had handled this fairly from the outset, we wouldn't be having this conversation. They got power-mad and put the balance of power enshrined in the Constitution into jeopardy. This is the result.

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Annie Deighnaugh

No...if mcconnell and the gop handled this fairly we would've heard witnesses and forced presentation of documents from the wh to get to the facts and evidence extant. Rather the senate was rigged in trump's favor from the get go, oaths before roberts notwithstanding:

"Everything I do during this, I'm coordinating with White House counsel," McConnell said in an interview with Fox News' Sean Hannity Thursday evening. "There'll be no difference between the president's position and our position as to how to handle this."

When you have the jury coordinating hand in hand with the defense, while hamstringing the prosecution from calling witnesses, you don't have a trial...you have a travesty of justice.

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51gerri

trump supporters are really quick to call non trump supporters liars, but never say a word about trumps 16,000+ lies. You can't be acquitted without a real trial. The defendant telling the jury what will or will not be allowed and the jury deciding the outcome before it even starts is not a trial. It is a coverup. Just another cheat.

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Kathy

Blaming Schiff and Pelosi procedure doesn’t exonerate Trump. It’s just to excuse the criminal in the WH. He says he is above the law but the GOP says everyone else has to cross every T? That’s why he is walking on our Constitution.

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Chi

If Schiff, Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler, & company had handled this fairly from the outset, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I don't believe for a second that there's anything the Dems could have done differently that would result in the Senate allowing witnesses and holding a fair trial. It's just a convenient excuse for them to try to deflect blame onto the Democrats when the reality is they are terrified of what the witnesses would say.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Indeed. It was curious that WH counsel was arguing against witnesses by implying that allowing them, and documents, would cause the president to be removed from office. They argued as if that was a given.

The trial isn't over. President Trump is not acquitted yet, nor is he convicted. Nor would witnesses in a fair trial guarantee removal from office.

He has been impeached. That will not change.

Rep. Schiff and the rest of the House mgrs are very smart and conscientious and have been working hard to argue for a fair trial and allowing us, the public, to see and hear the truth, while the defense repeated lies, and GOP senators whined and complained.

The more convincing the prosecutors' arguments, the more vulgar, malicious smears and insults against them have escalated - even from the man holding the highest office in the land, which speaks volumes about the moral character of team Trump.

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lurker111

The crats are all traitors. Nothing can be said to defend them. A partisan impeachment based on manufactured conspiracy theories is treason.

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lurker111

Everyone in the senate who is running against Trump must be removed from the process. No court or trial in the USA would allow such treachery. They must resign from the senate or drop out of the race.

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Rina

From two posts above:

"Everything I do during this, I'm coordinating with White House counsel," McConnell said in an interview with Fox News' Sean Hannity Thursday evening. "There'll be no difference between the president's position and our position as to how to handle this."

"You can't be acquitted without a real trial. The defendant telling the jury what will or will not be allowed and the jury deciding the outcome before it even starts is not a trial. It is a coverup."

(My emphasis.)

So nobody realistically expected a different result, and nobody expects the Senate to return a guilty verdict. All that has happened is that it has prevented further damning evidence being read into the record. But it really is very sad.


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Rina

I clearly don't understand the American voting system. Senatorial candidates run against the sitting president? Well blow me down, who knew?

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bfox254

Lamar Alexander, a very respected republican senator, summarized it best. He didn't need any further testimony to conclude that Trump did in fact withhold aid in an attempt to smear a political opponent. He believes the case presented by the house was convincing on its own. However, he didn't believe Trump's actions warranted removal from office. I suspect that's the position of many of his senate colleagues. I wish more would say it out loud.

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Rina

Is there not the possibility of formal censure instead of removal from office? I thought there was.

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Nana H

Bfox, several more have come out and said the same thing a in slightly different way but essentially the same thing. I think more will say it after they acquit especially those in risky seats.

The conviction is no surprise but Trump supporters are fooling themselves if they think the majority of Americans are gong to me happy with this. Over 70% wanted witnesses and when Bolton spills the beans they will be furious their wishes were not respected. Let's hope one heck of a lot of them live in swing States.

A majority of Senators believe the House team made their case. I think that makes it clear they did a good job on the facts and substance. However, they were not able to make a case for removal because minds were made up.

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socks(10a)

Yes, bfox, instead of attacking the process.

I still don’t understand why they defend him Maybe they fear Pence.

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lurker111

You can't be acquitted without a real trial.

You can't have a real trial without a jury. This isn't a trial. This is a political process where the senate rules on the case presented to them. No real judge would have allowed this case to be presented to a court of law.

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Stan Areted

No real judge would have allowed this case to be presented to a court of law.

Exactly, Lurker111.

Democrats should be ashamed at the incomplete mess they presented which they bragged was "overwhelming evidence" then literally hours later demanded the Senate do their job for them and gather more evidence.


The house managers and Pelosi remind me of rats in the cities scrambling for food anytime the least crumb drops, searching, always searching,hungry for anything to satiate their appetite.

Incompetent hacks, all.

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lurker111

I was truly offended when I saw the crats take the Pledge of Allegiance.

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elvis

Here's something to think about, for those who believe that this proceeding is the same as an ordinary trial.

If that is so, then the president could not be charged again with the same offense: double jeopardy would apply.


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vgkg (Va Z-7)

"If that is so, then the president could not be charged again with the same offense: double jeopardy would apply."

Nyuk, trump will surely come up with some new offenses in the coming weeks. The House could easily go back to trump paying off Stormy the Porney with campaign funds just before the 2016 election. The repubs would have impeached Hillary on inauguration day for that one. Now watch this post vanish as it has 3 times before.

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HU-885118952

Actually, Schiff will cobble another phony charge, using a fake whistle blower and never Trumpers, just like he did with Vindman, Ciaramella and Yovanovitch.

And again, Schiff will deliberatey write defective articles of impeachment careful to not identify any specific "crime," deliberately not issue subpoenas or recall them, and deny Republicans any equality in the impeachment hearings because he knows removing Trump would fail no matter what he does. Therefore, the goal will again be to create any and every way to scream UNFAIR! over and over and over.


To the Trump haters-- do you really think this isn't the outcome the Democrats planned all along? Y'all have been played if you're upset that Trump isn't going to be removed. That was never going to happen.

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woodnymph2_gw

As Rina wrote, at the very least, the Repubs should have voted to censure Trump.

I find it telling what historian Jon Meacham said yesterday: "Trump has accrued more power to the Executive branch and now he is the most powerful POTUS ever in American history. How many Americans realize that they now have a Monarch in charge of their country?"

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HU-885118952

woodnymph2_gw

As Rina wrote, at the very least, the Repubs should have voted to censure Trump.

I find it telling what historian Jon Meacham said yesterday: "Trump
has accrued more power to the Executive branch and now he is the most
powerful POTUS ever in American history. How many Americans realize that
they now have a Monarch in charge of their country?"

First, censure based on which defective article of impeachment?

Next, what metrics is Meacham using? Because I can enumerate a long list of things Obama did with his pen and his phone.

And stop with the silliness of the implications that Trump is a monarch. That just destroys one's credibility because it's laughable.

If hyperbole is all you've got, you've lost.

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elvis

Nana H

Bfox, several more have come out and said the same thing a in slightly different way but essentially the same thing. I think more will say it after they acquit especially those in risky seats.

The conviction is no surprise but Trump supporters are fooling themselves if they think the majority of Americans are gong to me happy with this.

Sorry, what "conviction"?

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Hyperbole?

Projecting again?

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HU-885118952

You'd think an esteemed 'historian" would think twice about saying Trump is the most powerful and imperial President in our history, when we had one that dropped atom bombs killing hundreds of thousands.

I mean, smh... THAT is how ridiculous he sounds.

TDS does not discriminate against education and position in society.

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HU-885118952

The majority of Americans give Congress an approval rate of what? 17% or so?

I think Americans already think Congress sucks.

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Kathy

70% of Americans wanted witnesses. The Senate failed to do their job. One part of Congress is not like the other.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

FWIW, I just heard another bobblehead equate allowing new witnesses & documents with removal from office. I don't get that.

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elvis

carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Hyperbole?

Projecting again?

Carol, your post has no context. What are you referring to?

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lurker111

This impeachment has already flipped one seat in the house. A sign of things to come?

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margaritadina

''Kathy

70% of Americans wanted witnesses.''

What is the number? 228.9 M?

Did I miss a national referendum?


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