Economy NOT soaring

Joaniepoanie

......Contrary to what Trump would have you believe and what he touts at his rallies.

On Morning Joe——According to a new report in the NYT, we have the slowest GDP since 2016. It is at the lowest rate—-2.2—-since WWII. While Trump has claimed it could climb to 6%, it has fallen far short of the averages of other presidencies.

Carter 1979———3.16%

Clinton 1995——2.68%

Trump 2019———2.3%

(I do not have a subscription to the NYT so cannot post the link)

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Del Phinium

"On Morning Joe——"

^ That's precisely where I stopped reading.

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lurker111

NYT? You must be joking.

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foodonastump

Lame.

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Del Phinium

"NYT? You must be joking."

LOL, lurker, you made it farther than I did! :)

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lurker111

Tell me about it. Joe and NYT combined. Very lame.

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foodonastump

No, avoiding an argument because you don’t like relatively mainstream sources is lame. Lazy. And yes I include the left who does it constantly here. Lame.

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dirtygert(5-NY)

What's "very lame" is trashing the OP because you don't like the vehicle cited. Just did a copy-and-paste into my search bar of "slowest GDP since 2016" and --- lo and behold --- there are articles from other sources on the same subject. Facts are facts --- whether you respect the messenger or not.

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lurker111

I don't argue with yellow journalism outlets. Best to ignore it and leave it for those who need it.

there are articles from other sources

They are all probably based on the NYT story...just like joe.

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Joaniepoanie

Trumpers here have no problem posting/quoting from NYT, CNN, WaPo, etc when they print articles you agree with.

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Nana H

No matter the source, the GDP is what it is . Good but not soaring. Trump and his supporters constantly over state its strength. It's good, no doubt about that, but pretty much in keeping with Obama's last three or four years by all meaningful metrics . However, Trump says it is soaring and bobble heads bobble without checking the real numbers themselves.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

Carter, Lol, now that was an awesome Presidency!

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Del Phinium

But... wait... Aren't we still in "Obama's economy"? LOL. That's all you Democrats have been preaching! I hadn't heard the announcement about when the big "changeover" actually happened. At what point did the Dems decide that Trump finally "owns" this economy? As soon as the NYT says it's "bad"? Is that when "Trump's economy" starts?

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Rina

Del, your last two sentences indicate that at best you merely skimmed the OP. Doesn't say it's "bad", just the lowest since 2016. I don't think anyone has mentioned the Trump economy "starting". Lana specifically states: "It's good, no doubt about that, but pretty much in keeping with Obama's last three or four years by all meaningful metrics." In other words, the figures indicate that Trump has achieved a "steady as she goes" economy, which is no disgrace.

But being Trump, it must be the biggest, the greatest, the zoop-a-doopist, over-the-top fabulousest economy ever, right?

Comment to stop people saying "but the stock market": the stock market and the economy are not the same thing. GDP isn't a perfect measure of the health of the economy either, depending on how one defines "health", but it comes a good deal closer than the stock market does.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)


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lurker111

You lost most of the USA with that comment. ^^^

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Rina

An interesting chart to be found on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States. I know its Wikipedia, but that doesn't mean its figures are wrong. Lots of detail here, and opportunity to cherry-pick, but aside from the dire effects of the great recession on GDP and unemployment, there's nothing there to celebrate Trump or to point an accusing finger at him where GDP and unemployment (for instance) are concerned. Also, of course, the chart doesn't show the environment in which each figure was achieved -- the effect of the recession and recovery are obvious; other circumstances may not be.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Red is Corporate Profits
Blue is Wages



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Joaniepoanie

The economy may be great for Trump and his rich cronies, Wall Street, and those with considerable assets—-but I don’t think it’s so great for the average working middle and lower class families. Wages are and have been stagnant and Trump may thump his chest about jobs, but how many of those jobs are full time, decent wage jobs with benefits? Part time Walmart greeter doesn’t count.

Yet many average middle and lower class workers will vote for Trump because he tells him how great the economy is, even though their lives have not improved and they struggle paycheck to paycheck.

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haydayhayday


Joanieponie:

"On Morning Joe——According to a new report in the NYT, we have the slowest GDP since 2016. It is at the lowest rate—-2.2—-since WWII. "

Total nonsense and it goes downhill from there.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543

From the horse's mouth:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/business/economy/gdp-numbers.html


"In previous decades, growth that consistently fell below 3 percent would have been seen as distressing. Now most economists — at least those outside the administration — see normal growth circling the 2 percent mark.

...

“In the bigger picture on 2019, growth was solid,” said Matthew Luzzetti, chief United States economist for Deutsche Bank Securities.

...

The languor, in part, reflects a remarkable achievement — a maturing labor market, where the official jobless rate creeps along at half-century lows as the expansion heads toward its 11th anniversary. A hefty chunk of the population is also aging into retirement.

“Underneath what you’re seeing is slower domestic activity,” said Kathy Bostjancic, chief United States financial economist at Oxford Economics. “It’s just the natural state of things.”


Thursday’s report shows that trend is continuing."

Hay




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haydayhayday

"Thursday’s report shows that trend is continuing."

Funny.

So, I guess, we can still call it part of Obama's trend.

Hay

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Stan Areted

joaniepoanie:

Yet many average middle and lower class workers will vote for Trump because he tells him how great the economy is, even though their lives have not improved and they struggle paycheck to paycheck.

Keep it up!

More tsk tsking at PRESIDENT TRUMP supporters for believing what others falsely characterize as failure and they know and are living the reality of success.

AKA as accusing them of being stupid, not knowing what their priorities SHOULD be according to liberals and not voting as libs think they should.

SO TYPICAL where does anyone EVER get off assuming what another person's voting priorities or reasons should be?


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haydayhayday


It is at the lowest rate—-2.2—-since WWII.

Really funny.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Tricks of the trade from Hay:

Just like most of you, I don't have a subscription to the NYT and can't read the article.

So, I cheat.

I've discovered that an article will load for me...in its entirety... and THEN it will quickly get covered up by the usual, "you don't have a subscription".

Here's the trick.

As it's loading and you see the swirling little thingee in the upper left corner (Chrome), you can hit the X to stop it loading and if you time it right, you'll get to see the whole entire article before the "you don't have a subscription" covers it up.

It's a matter of timing. If at first you don't succeed, try again.

Hay


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Toby

Stan Areted

joaniepoanie:

Yet many average middle and lower class workers will vote for
Trump because he tells him how great the economy is, even though their
lives have not improved and they struggle paycheck to paycheck.

Keep it up!

More tsk tsking at PRESIDENT TRUMP supporters for believing what
others falsely characterize as failure and they know and are living the
reality of success.

AKA as accusing them of being stupid, not knowing what their
priorities SHOULD be according to liberals and not voting as libs think
they should.

SO TYPICAL where does anyone EVER get off assuming what another person's voting priorities or reasons should be?

Let's all remember this post when African American voting priorities are discussed by white Trump supporters.

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Toby

Here's a balanced, detailed look at Trump's accomplishments and failures.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/12/04/jobs-creation-trump-goal-has-fallen-short/4249422002/

While his tax cuts to corporations and the wealthy has created some jobs in some sectors, the price we are paying is a $23 trillion national debt. We will spend $1 trillion more in 2020 than we collect in tax revenues and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-national-debt-will-rise-to-98-of-gdp-by-2030-cbo-projects-11580238089

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

Can anyone point to the comments that suggest the GDP is something to criticize or point fingers of accusation at or characterizing it as a failure?

It is average. That’s good! As long as the trend is upward in an increasing amount I have no complaints. (sidebar: I don’t actually believe that it is imperative for the per capita GDP to “grow” but that is certainly a different topic for a different day)

So why does Trump make the claims he does about how great the economy is and how he’s doing the best ever? It’s average at best, in line with his immediate predecessors or a little lower. (Increasing by a decreasing amount)

Did he really say he could achieve 6% growth? Did voters believe him? Are they upset that he didn’t come anywhere close to that, yet still pretends he is responsible for greater growth than his immediate predecessors?

Does he know that growth is slowing down little by little and he’s pretending it isn’t happening, or does he not realize it?

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Nana H

Funnily enough Trump supporters, even those who are interested in numbers, actually believe the economy is significantly better under Trump even though there isn't any numerical data to support it. Yet they really believe it.

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Rina

Thor, I've yet to read beyond your comment, but that chart made my jaw drop. That's bad. That's really, really bad. But it clearly points to a a longstanding problem that seems to have kicked off in 2000, not so much to recent figures. Looks bad, in fact, for Bush/early Obama, but says nothing about the situation under Trump. However, I doubt the country's seen much improvement, somehow. The philosophy of rich getting richer and b-gger everyone else still seems to rule.

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Kathy

They believe Trump. They are blind to facts and have fallen prey to the Alt facts as KAC described them. That is why his followers are described as a cult rather than tribal.

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Toby

Most Trump followers base it solely on the unemployment rate and most couldn't tell you which industries gained and lost jobs.

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Nana H

Even for that, while the percent has dropped and that's a good thing, Trump has created about the same number of jobs as Obama. Of course the percent is down that's what happens when jobs are being created and not lost. However, if you look at the charts the trend is a continuum of Obamas job creation with no bump up.

It's been brought to their attention many times, they simply ignore it and continue to say Trump has done wonders.

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Rina

Miss Lindsey, I think per capita GDP needs to grow to keep pace with inflation, which is rising, according to the chart I posted -- and perhaps at a rate higher than GDP growth, which would mean everybody is a bit less well off than they were.*

It also worries me a lot, anywhere, to wonder how much the economic growth figures depend on increasing national debt. Assuming I had the credit rating, I could certainly be living high off the hog on borrowed money. Or a borrowed hog, as it were.

*ETA: Except the wealthy, as their percentage of the individual take from the GDP well exceeds that of everyone else, obviously.

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Iris GW

Didn't Trump promise 6% growth and eliminate the debt in 8 years?

Failing on both counts. Promises kept?

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Ziemia(6a)

...as the expansion heads toward its 11th anniversary..

... Thursday’s report shows that trend is continuing."

Hay

$$$$$$$$$

Who was prez 11 years ago?

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Ziemia(6a)

Grow the economy by 4 percent a year

“We're bringing it (the GDP) from 1 percent up to 4 percent. And I actually think we can go higher than 4 percent. I think you can go to 5 percent or 6 percent.”

The promise was 4%. With hints it could be higher.

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haydayhayday

Ziemia:

"Who was prez 11 years ago?"

Doesn't really matter. I could have have been President and, just like Obama, let Bernanke take the reins, and we'd still have the same results.

Now we're back to the "Obama Trend".

Funny.

Hay

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Ziemia(6a)

11 years was brought into the conversation without noting much about it. That's all. Expected yawns.

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haydayhayday

Ziemia:

"The promise was 4%. With hints it could be higher."

Without even looking, I'm guessing that's something Trump promised.

You think he's the first politician who has lied and made outrageous promises to you?

Naive much?

Hay

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haydayhayday

Ziemia:

"11 years was brought into the conversation without noting much about it. "

I'm not naive. I know what you were doing.

Hay

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Ziemia(6a)

Hay, you seem to see a whole lot more in my comments than I put in them. It's like you occasionally skim others' comments and zoom into on mine.

You actually don't know what I was doing just as I don't know what you were doing.

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Ziemia(6a)

PS: "You think he's the first politician who has lied and made outrageous promises to you?"

It's not about his promises. For me, it's about what his supporters say about them.

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