Welcome back! A couple of initial thoughts:

- I would not have the only bathroom for visitors be a toilet only :( Get a sink in there. (Tho actually I’d hate to have to trek thru someone’s mudroom and laundry to get to it - not very welcoming)

- The kitchen feels large for the size of house... and is maybe coming at the expense of ‘other’ storage - like where will you keep your luggage, seasonal decoration, extra sheets and towels, TP, vacuum? The two secondary en suites are too compact to have room for storage

- in the master bath, either do one sink centered in the vanity or flip the door swing (or, I’d do both) - as is, the first sink is unusable any time the door is open

Which way is North?

I don't think you've successfully solved your powder bath dilemma. As damiarain says, having the powder bath be only a toilet feels a bit icky, and having to go through the mudroom and laundry room to get to the bath also feel unwelcoming to visitors.

The most logical solution to me would be to add a door to the hallway to Bathroom 3. If it's really important to you to preserve the possibility of ensuite bathrooms for the future you could always frame in a door opening to the bedroom and then drywall over it, so that it would be simple to move the doorway later. But for resale value I think not having a true powder bath will ding you a lot more than having the door to that bathroom be on the hallway rather than directly from the bedroom.

If you really, really want to have ensuite bathrooms, another option would be give Bathroom 3 access from both the hall and bedroom, perhaps using pocket door to the bedroom to avoid door conflict.

In either of these situations, I'd probably made your 1/4 mudroom bathroom a storage closet, as that's probably a better use of space.

If you're determined not to give Bathroom 3 hallway access, I'd enlarge your 1/4 bathroom to a 1/2 bath and move it down to where the refrigerator is now so that it would have a door off the short "hall" to the mudroom, rather than being buried back in the mudroom.

Thanks @damiarain!

I was curious about what people would think about the 1/4 bath in the mudroom. The sink in the mudroom is going to be a pretty nice sink, not your standard utility sink. We were not sure there was a difference of stepping out of the toilet room to wash your hands - kinda how the master is. Thanks for that thought.

The kitchen is definitely large for the house. My wife and I love to cook and we team cook. The pantry will have a ladder / rail system (10' high ceiling) and the main kitchen area will probably have no over counter cabinets. My wife is pretty short and is the real talent in the kitchen so I want to make sure it is a super functional space for her.

We're thinking of adding a linen closet in the hallway by giving up some of the master closet space to solve some of the things you mentioned -extra towels, TP, etc. We're currently planning on using some of the pantry cabinet space (the cooktop wall that shares a pantry wall) for some of it as well. Luggage, gear, seasonal things will be in the garage or in an attic space.

Agreed on the door of the master bath!

Thanks for your thoughts!

The problems with the step out to use the laundry sink plan are 1) it means everyone is touching the door knob before washing hands (many people have this issue with master bathrooms, too) and 2) what if, say, you have thing soaking in the laundry sink? Or just sitting there (we sometimes have muddy shoes there waiting to be cleaned, for example).

@Isaac The back deck is facing pretty much north and the entire lot is 100% private and wooded. A large stream kind of bends / goes around the house. Pretty much every window from the master bath to bedroom 2 should have stream views.

@Kristin S Thanks so much for the feedback. We're definitely going to work on the powder room / bathroom situation in general and see what we can come up with. I agree it is not all ideal! I am a little curious why having a separate bath in the master and then walking 10' to a sink is ok or I'd even say is considered luxurious to most, but it is icky to do somewhere else in the house? Just the way everyone feels?

I'll work on it and let you know what we do. Thanks again! I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts.

@Kristin S

AHhhh your follow up answered my question. I feel less about the ick factor of leaving a room to wash but #2 makes perfect sense! TY!!

No, as I said, there are a lot of people who aren't fans of it in the master, either. Some use a swinging door so that no is is touching a door handle - this works better with master bathrooms, though, as they have a door separating the whole room for privacy. Similarly, I suspect quite a few people often leave the door to the toilet room open, as it's only needed for privacy when the other part of the bathroom is simultaneously occupied, so again, less actual use there.

I don't think there is a universal feeling as to whether it's "icky," but I also think that considerations are different in spaces targeting guests. *Some* people will think it's icky, even if those people aren't you. They're unlikely to be using your master, but they are likely to be using your powder bath, so it could be a guest comfort issue in one space, if not the other.

That said, we actually are putting this setup in my husband's shop, but that's his choice, will likely be used by him alone, and is a pretty utilitarian space, to say the least.

So the garage faces south, toward the best light, and you are forgoing passive solar gain into your living spaces in the winter?

What do the elevations look like?

What direction is north?

How does the house sit on the lot?

How big is the lot?

Why is the kitchen so dysfunctionally laid out?

Thanks for all the thoughts @Kristin S! They are super awesome and I really appreciate it. :-)

I'm sure I can move some things around and get this addressed nicely.

@isaac The house when looking at the floor plan slightly NE vs solid N, just to be specific. However, the garage has the worst views which was a primary consideration. The bonus space above the garage however has beautiful views, which was another consideration. The entire living /dining / kitchen area (length of the covered porch) has tall ceilings and transom windows go across the entire 36'. It should get blasted with morning and midday sun and I think it will be pretty good for passive solar - They will be concrete radiant heated floors.

@cpartist As mentioned above, the back patio faces north / a little NE. A large stream bends / goes around the house so the house is situated to take advantage of that. Pretty much every window from the master bath to bedroom 2 should have stream views. The house is on 2 acres.

I don't understand what you mean about the kitchen being dysfunctionally laid out as that is not very helpful? Outside of the sink proportions that are incorrect, I'm unsure what you mean? I think that everyone uses their spaces differently. My wife and I love to cook and work as a team in the kitchen, entertain, etc. There will be some small changes there, but it is actually a space we're feeling pretty confident about.

Thanks for your thoughts and questions!

If you move the refrigerator to the left of the range it will be convenient to both sinks. Then you can slide the powder room to the left and add a sink.

Glad you got some clarity on the 1/4 bath thing =)

The master closet: the current "U" shape isn't as functional in real life, since clothes actually take up like 2' of space on hangers - so functionally you have the two ~8' runs - but then you'll probably end up losing some of that to the powder room and/or linen closet. I would take a look at the space you use in your current house / need for your clothes and come to a solution that works for you AND works for the new house layout

Living room: It's the only main room that doesn't have any furniture laid out in it yet... have you mocked that up yet? Where will the TV go? How will you orientate the furniture if the fireplace is on one wall, the TV on another, and views are out the back window? Frankly it looks like a narrow-ish space once you give up room to walk between the dining table and living room furniture (but it's a bit tough to read some of the dimensions)

The covered porch on the back - I think it says 10' deep? How do you plan to use it? Just to transition down to the yard / patio? Chairs & side tables? A dining table? Again, I would plan out your furniture and walk way(s) for the patio and decide if it's good as is, or if maybe you could do with a smaller one because you're planning to do your outdoor living out on a large patio (yay more light into the house - currently every pubic room window on that side is "blocked" by the covered patio)

Welcome back, Dave Weis. Adding three feet to the mudroom has left you with extra floor space, but not enough space for the PR--and BTW no one will use that PR anyway, because there is no way to close the door when someone is standing in front of the toilet. At the very least the door swing will need to change. I added some storage cabinets, and moved the garage entry over to add a closet. The long counter below the fridge wall can be used for sorting and folding laundry. I also moved the door from the mudroom to the hall area down, and put a shallow storage cabinet just inside--traffic will have to swing around the bench anyway, so I made that more of a straight shot.

I noticed you've changed the size of the prep sink, so I hope you're planning to make that at least 18". I centered it, since I think you appreciate symmetry, and we do most of our prep to one side or the other of a sink--you won't be back-to-back with the cooktop anyway. That also leaves more landing space on the end to drop incoming groceries. I still like your separate clean-up zone, especially since you have help in the kitchen. I moved your ovens down again, to give you more space around the clean-up sink.

I'm concentrating on the kitchen/mudroom, and I agree with the consensus--I don't think the powder room is going to work well, even with the door swing reversed. And I'm kinda bummed that there is no closet for the formal entry. :[

I'm having a hard time reading the plans correctly. Is the pantry a walk through pantry? Or do you have two islands?

If walk through and the range area is really more like a wall in the kitchen then I love the layout and don't find it dysfunctional at all. I am biased though because we have the same island, stove, fridge triangle that you will. We don't have a second sink though and our main sink is in the island. I can see how great it would be to have a second one away from the island though.

I would also reconfigured the powder. It needs to be a self contained 1/2 bath for sure.

And I would 100% add a coat closet.

I certainly understand prioritizing views. You may well get a satisfactory amount of light in the living and dining rooms. I would be very much surprised, though, if you got any passive solar benefit at all from rooms facing NNE and shaded by a covered porch.

Rooms with windows on only one side are prone to

getting glare and dark shadows, which are tough on the eyes, but north light is more diffuse so maybe that won't be too bad.

People always make it seem like windows on one side only is so awful. Only one room in my entire house has a window on more than one side and it is insanely bright all the time. We have large windows and a 16' sliding door. It just isn't universally true. Also many areas, especially on city lots, have restrictions on window placements on walls that are along lot lines.

What is the site like? Do you have a survey you can share? What latitude is the site located? Where are there desirable views? Where are there undesirable views? Where are existing trees located on the property? Is there other vegetation on the property? Where are the utilities located? Will it be on a septic system or sewer? Which way is north? What are the soil conditions? Where are the neighboring buildings located? Are there existing structures on the site? Where will roads be located? Are there any easements on the property? What are the setback requirements? What are the HOA restrictions? What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

@damiarain Thanks so much for such a detailed response and thought! <3

About the master closet - It will actually be the largest closet space my wife and I have ever had in our lives, I think. Feeling like it is so much space is one of the reasons I feel pretty good about giving up some of it for the linen closet (even if it's just "my" closet space that is lost. :-) We're pretty good about not having tons of clothes and putting summer/winter clothes and gear in tubs for storage and moving them to the garage and some of that stuff. Right now we probably have 1/3 of the space and it isn't the end of the world, but it also isn't ideal.

I will definitely think more on the closet and maybe check out some of those closet solution sites to get an idea of what layouts are possible.

Living room:

From the edge of the island to the wall is about 26' and the room is about 20' wide. We plan on wall mounting the TV on the front wall. We figure we'll budget about 10' of that to dining area space putting the back of our sofa about 15-16' from the wall.

Honestly, we probably won't use the propane fireplace a ton. We're doing radiant heat with concrete floors and through experience, the temperatures stays so even that turning on a fire makes everything too hot nearly immediately and the concrete slab doesn't cool/heat fast enough to really all spontaneously running the fire. It's more for occasional ambiance in the winter only and emergency heat if the electricity goes out for an extended period. However, things change and I am planning on running conduit & cables to wall mount a tv on that wall if we decided we wanted to mix things up a bit down the road.

Covered porch

Yes, it is 10' deep and the lowest point is 10' tall (I don't think that is in the plan I posted) so I'm hoping it gets a decent amount of light for the N side. I We're consideringWe don't want anything to feel blocked or closed in. We're planning on mainly chairs and side tables out there. We'll put a picnic table further out, but it snows several feet here so we wanted a covered deck so we could have heaters and some chairs to enjoy a beer during the winter months. Im not sure we want to go less than 10' deep, but we may consider making it not quite so wide to make sure the kitchen window gets plenty of sun.

I do need to plan out where things will actually go out there though, as we would someday like a wood-fired oven, + the bbq and smoker and someday hopefully a hot tub. I want to run propane/electricity to all of those things in advance.

Thank you so much or your thoughts and detailed response, I really appreciate it!

Part of my problem with the 1/4 bath is that your sink is in a very public place, with two accesses to worry about people walking in/by while cleaning up after using the toilet.

1/4 bath is not a thing in a home.

Ugh. Pocket doors. How will you open or close then with arms full of laundry? There is no reason in rooms that large to have pocket doors; they are a last-ditch solution when nothing else will fit.

10-0 x 11-0 bedrooms? 3-0 corridor.? The house needs to be renovated before its been built.

doc5md has an excellent idea! Also someone mentioned a linen closet, which could be part of the cabinetry in the mudroom. I also added a closet in the pantry, and took the liberty of cleaning up the extra lines on the plan:

Flip the closet past the bench and hooks and make that the closet for the formal entry... there is no bedroom close by to put coats when company comes.. and you will hate not having a front hall closet.. I would.

@User,

What's wrong with a 3' wide hallway? That's what ours are (in our 100 year old house) and it has never been an issue or felt tight.

Is wheelchair access the issue?

I’d delete the fireplace or relocate. It’s in a hallway right now. No way to put chairs or a couch in front of it. It’s the hallway between the bedrooms and foyer/ kitchen/ living. Do you really want or need a fireplace? If so I’d find a way to put it on that west wall.

As it is it’s just like a very expensive piece of flat art that eats up room in the office. No way to sit in front of it to enjoy the warmth. you Could even turn it around and have it face the office. At least someone could enjoy it there!

another thing I feel which is more personal is that the garage is out of proportion to the house. I expect a bigger house with a 3 car garage. Of course if you are a car collector or have motorcycles etc this may be perfect for you and I wouldn’t change it In that case. But if you don’t need all 3 garages I might reduce that. Or even convert some to living or storage space.

@mama goose_gw zn6OH Sorry for the slow reply, my computer rebooted mid response! Ugh. TY TY so much for all your thoughts and drawings! They are very helpful and my wife and I really appreciate it. I took some inspiration from your feedback and some of the others and I moved some things around and I think used the mudroom space a little better. I've attached a rough up of it. I made it a half bath and made it more accessible to the office and living area, without having to go through the mudroom, but still hopefully far enough away from the living area to be private.

I moved the garage door over 3' or so and made a storage closet with that space. I figure next to the master closet could be the linen closet.

I didn't intentionally change the prep sink - it is actually going to be a 33" farmhouse apron sink, which will match the cleanup sink.

I like the ovens moved down a little bit, thank you!

Definitely making progress... bathroom situation much better. I am trying to figure out a way to enclose the laundry, simply for the noise. Would you consider a stackable washer/dryer unit in the "linen" closet? Then you could use that whole wall for a mudroom sink/counter/storage situation.

"...3' to our living room for a little extra furniture space, 3' to the mudroom, and 3' to the garage."

"I moved the garage door over 3' or so..."

"Took 1' from the master shower and counter and gave it to the master bedroom."

You're ignoring how houses are built, and it's going to cost you extra without getting the gain you should. Studs/rafters/joists are 16" (or 24" studs if 2x6) on center. Plywood and other sheet goods are 4'x8' (up to 4'x12" for wallboard). If you don't size rooms wisely you could spend a lot more, but get mostly waste and causing higher labor costs. If you don't account for rafter and joist spans, you could require doubling up or a switch to steel.

You've got plumbing on exterior walls. I don't know where you are, but in northern states that's not generally done because of freeze risk.

You really need a pro involved, pronto. They could save you a lot of money.

A couple of minor things in the newest mudroom/laundry. The linen closet doesn't need to be that deep--just as deep as a stack of towels or sheets, so things don't get lost in the back, The frame for the door will line up with the wall behind the fridge. The closet door to the left needs to be adjusted so that you aren't reaching so far to the back of the closet. I also added a door on the opening to the hall:

@tatts I came here for informal design help as I lay out my house. I think some people understand that and others do not seem to understand that. I understand that details about the house location and whether it is sewer or septic are lacking to some folks. I appreciate that me just moving things around in a house in a photo editor doesn't make any sense in the real world. Just because I post an idea or edited floor plan of something does not mean that is is going to be built that way or built at all. I have a site engineer, my GC, and a design & structural engineering firm.

@roccouple Thanks for all of your thoughts! I really appreciate it! I'll think about axing the fireplace as it definitely eats some space. We like having a fireplace but we don't plan on using it often. We consider it our secondary heating source in case we lose power but maybe we could do something different.

The garage is a little out of proportion of the house..We tried to find a balance. :-) you guessed correctly we have a couple of cars, 3 motorcycles, and will most likely end up with a couple of snowmobiles in a year or two. I have a decent amount of tools to go with the toys and we also have lots of outdoor gear. The garage is actually going to be pretty tight space-wise!

@mnmamax3 Thanks! We were thinking about trying to put the W/D inside of cabinets or something similar so we could potentially close a cabinet or closet door. I'm also thinking we could add a door at the entry of the mudroom (from living room) just how @mama goose_gw zn6OH did in her most recent post.

You are missing an architect on that list of professionals. In fact with the right architect, there would not be a need for a site engineer or a design & structural engineering firm.

Mark how can you say that as a blanket statement. You have no idea what the regulations are where he is building. In my city you absolutely must have a structural engineer involved in a new build and your permit package won’t be approved without their okay.

"With the right architect" is the hole maker in the blanket, some architects are qualified to do engineering. I believe all architects have engineering as part of their education (I did) and many architects perform those duties to the extent they feel comfortable. Regulations change and can vary among jurisdictions, but if your city requires the involvement of a structural engineer, it may be needless. Some jurisdiction require the seal of an "architect or engineer".

One point to be made is that of those professional, generally only an architect is trained extensively to make building look good and function well for the users of the building.