Coronavirus Part 2

Kathy

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200122/what-to-know-about-new-coronavirus-from-china

I think we should be a little concerned, but not overly so,” says Jim Le Duc, PhD, director of the Galveston National Laboratory at the University of Texas Medical Branch. The warning flags, he says, are the virus’s ability to kill, the fact that it can be transmitted from person to person, and its newness -- meaning no one has had time to build up immunity.

This thread replaces the previous one where I incorrectly states one died in the US. So far there are no deaths in US.

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Kathy

Thanks Del. I edited it. Duh! On my part.

FOAS....time is my enemy and my friend now a days.

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foodonastump

(Sorry I deleted my post after your correction)

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Kathy

Toby

There are 63 cases being monitored in the U.S. that stretch across 22
states, including the first patient in Washington state and the new case
in Illinois, said Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center
for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/24/cdc-confirms-second-us-case-of-coronavirus-chicago-resident-diagnosed.html

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Kathy

Toby I cut and pasted your comment here as the other thread is void now. I hope you are okay with that. Thank you for your patience

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Kathy

I am happy the US had a heads up and can monitor people returning from Wuhan ASAP. Hopefully it will keep it from spreading here. From what I have read the symptoms are not severe so it might go undetected in many as they spread the virus.

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momofdoxies

Toby, I also copied and pasted what you said on the other thread.

Toby

They are monitoring 63 cases in the US.


There are not 63 cases of Coronavirus being monitored. There are two confirmed cases with 61 potential
cases. That is a huge difference from what Toby said in the previous
thread. It is important to be accurate on a public forum when discussing
health topics.


Jan. 24, 2020, 10:25 AM EST / Updated Jan. 24, 2020, 11:56 AM EST

By Erika Edwards

A second case of the new coronavirus has been confirmed in the United States, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced Friday morning.

The
CDC is also investigating another 61 potential cases from 22 states.
Eleven have tested negative, and results from the rest are pending.

The
new case, a woman in her 60s, is hospitalized in Chicago, and is
reportedly doing well. She had traveled to Wuhan, China, in December,
and flew home to Illinois on Jan. 13. She was not symptomatic on the
flight home.

The woman had not spent much
time in public after arriving back in the U.S., and had not taken public
transportation, health officials said. The risk that she had infected
others is low, but some close contacts are being monitored for symptoms.

Dr.
Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC's National Center for
Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said that it's important to keep
in mind that there are still many unknowns about the virus.

"This
virus was only identified within the past month, and there is much we
don't know yet," Messonnier said during a call with journalists Friday.

She added it's likely there will be more cases in the U.S., including among close contacts of travelers.

Link

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Kathy

The markets in China selling live animals to eat including koalas and such sickens me. This is what a country without regulations to protect their people does. And we send poultry there to be processed?

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margaritadina

''Kathy The markets in China selling live animals to eat including koalas''

WHAT?????

This is madness. I hope koalas and all other innocent creatures have diseases so deadly that Chinese gov will ban the consumption all together. Including dogs' and cats' meat. They eat live animals, they boil them alive....sadistic culture.

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Kathy

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12302979


The Food markets in China

what is happening in China is affecting US and the world. We are a global society whether we like it or not. With global corps and tourism diseases can spread like wildfire.

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roxanna7

Possible pandemics in the future from something? Possible, sure, in this day and age of global interactions. Remember the Pandemic of 1918. Horrible, but makes for fascinating reading.

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Kathy

Yet——

US President Donald Trump’s first budget request for fiscal year 2018 includes drastic cuts for diplomacy and overseas aid (-32%), and slashes US$4.6 billion from humanitarian assistance and global health spending.

In the last decade, the United States has been the leading funder for preparing and responding to global infectious disease outbreaks, and the delivery of basic health care to low-income countries.

The cut diminishes the world’s capacity to prevent and coordinate interventions to tackle human health security issues.

Reducing funding to national disease surveillance systems, training and infrastructure in the developing world will hamper the ability to deliver rapid, coordinated and consistent responses to borderless infectious disease outbreaks.

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Toby

Toby

It's not what I said. It's what CNBC quoted Dr. Nancy Messonnier as saying.
They say "monitoring". NBC says "investigating". Both are quoting Dr.
Messonnier.

Toby

According to Dr. Messonier, they are monitoring 63 cases. I provided the link
where I got the wording. I don't know if your source is accurate or mine
is. Both sources are quoting the same doctor. They have used different
verbs to describe what the CDC is doing.

Momofdoxies, perhaps you could send CNBC an email and ask them to publish a correction using the correct verb.

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margaritadina

''Kathy

Yet——

US President Donald Trump’s first budget request for fiscal year 2018
includes drastic cuts for diplomacy and overseas aid (-32%), and
slashes US$4.6 billion from humanitarian assistance and global health
spending.''

Asia and Africa have to stop eating crap that they are eating. We already have AIDS, Ebola and now this from their exotic meals.

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Kathy

Update


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momofdoxies

Toby, no need for me to email anyone for a correction as your link uses the exact same verb. This is what was in the link that you provided. The word potential is used in both links.


Your Link

CDC confirms second US case of coronavirus and is monitoring dozens of other potential cases

Published Fri, Jan 24 202010:14 AM ESTUpdated an hour ago

Berkeley Lovelace Jr.@BerkeleyJr





Key Points

  • U.S.
    health officials diagnosed a second patient with the China coronavirus —
    a Chicago woman who returned from Wuhan with the infection.
  • They are currently monitoring 63 “patients under investigation” in the U.S.
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momofdoxies

Kathy, we will probably see close to that number of contacts with the new case in Chicago as well. Every new confirmed case will have many close contacts that will have to be monitored.

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Ann

Posting to bump up this thread and help the other one die. I appreciate Kathy's efforts to move to this one due to the misleading/mistaken title of the other one. Thanks Kathy.

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adoptedbyhounds

Thought this would be of interest to everyone. Someone arrived at RDU who may be infected with the virus. The link below has the story, and links to additional information.


https://abc11.com/health/nc-investigating-possible-coronavirus-in-person-who-arrived-at-rdu/5876318/


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Kathy

It sure makes a case for wearing a mask on planes. I see more people doing that now. I was curious about the city of Wuhan, wondering if a lot of Americans would travel there. It seems so.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/wuhan-china-virus/index.html


i found this interesting


All passengers flying into the United States from Wuhan will be routed through one of five airports and screened for fever and other signs of the virus. “Patients of concern” will be referred to a facility and given a test to find out if they have the virus.

Per WebMD



On a Jan. 21 call with reporters, Dr. Martin Cetron, director of the CDC’s division of global migration and quarantine, said all U.S.-bound passengers from Wuhan would be funneled through one of five domestic airports—New York City’s John F. Kennedy International Airport, Los Angeles International Airport, San Francisco International Airport, Chicago O’Hare International Airport and Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport—equipped to screen for the coronavirus, which is spreading around Asia and was this week confirmed in the U.S.. Cetron called the system a “full-on, 100% coverage strategy” that “involves reissuing tickets and rerouting passengers from all over the globe through connecting and direct flights.”

Per Time

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

It is looking like a very bad pandemic possibility, with an estimated R0 of 3.8
(each infection is projected to lead to almost 4 new infections).





Preprint: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.23.20018549v1

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing


2/ “We estimate the basic reproduction number of the infection (R_0) to be 3.8 (95% confidence interval, 3.6-4.0), indicating that 72-75% of transmissions must be prevented by control measures for infections to stop increasing...

3/ ... We estimate that only 5.1% (95%CI, 4.8-5.5) of infections in Wuhan are identified, and by 21 January a total of 11,341 people (prediction interval, 9,217-14,245) had been infected in Wuhan since the start of the year. Should the epidemic continue unabated in Wuhan....

4/ we predict the epidemic in Wuhan will be substantially larger by 4 February (191,529 infections; prediction interval, 132,751-273,649), infection will be established in other Chinese cities, and importations to other countries will be more frequent. Our model suggests that..

5/ travel restrictions from and to Wuhan city are unlikely to be effective in halting transmission across China; with a 99% effective reduction in travel, the size of the epidemic outside of Wuhan may only be reduced by 24.9% on 4 February. Our findings are...

6/ ...critically dependent on the assumptions underpinning our model, and the timing and reporting of confirmed cases, and there is considerable uncertainty associated with the outbreak at this early stage. With these caveats in mind, our work suggests that...

7/ a basic reproductive number for this 2019-nCoV outbreak is higher compared to other emergent coronaviruses, suggesting that containment or control of this pathogen may be substantially more difficult.”!!!!

8/ ... SUMMARY: so what does this mean for the world??? We are now faced with the most virulent virus epidemic the world has ever seen. An R0=3.8 means that it exceeds SARS’s modest 0.49 viral attack rate by 7.75x — almost 8 fold! A virus that spreads 8 faster than SARS...

9/ ...cannot be stopped by containment alone. A 99% quarantine lockdown containment of Wuhan will not even reduce the epidemic’s spread by even 1/3rd in the next 2 weeks. Thus, I really hate to be the epidemiologist who has to admit this, but we are potentially faced with.

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margaritadina

''Kathy It sure makes a case for wearing a mask on planes.''

And safety goggles. Chinese doctor Wang Guangfa who caught SARS-like infection said that the virus can enter the body through eyes.

As of right now, 41 victims died, 1200 infected (China).

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war garden

looks like china is facing another plague. first the pigs died;then the people.
now all they need is town crier to yell :带出你的死人 (bring out your dead )带出你的死人 (bring out your dead )
just in time for chinese year of the Rat!!!

very bad sign or habenger for new year since rats are the harbingers of plague and disease.

if you country is hit by a plague and thousands or more
die. the survivors rarely care if it was bacterium or virus
that lead to devastation.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

psst...
Diseases do not stop at country borders.

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Linda

It's like these new viruses keep popping up out of nowhere. It's truly hard for the medical safety net to catch each one in time...and then there's a big race to try and come up with something...a vaccine or whatever.

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ubro(2a)

very bad sign or habenger for new year since rats are the harbingers of plague and disease.

Umm?

According to the China Institute, the rat is a symbol of fertility and abundance. People born during this year (or previous Years of the Rat, such as 1984, 1996, or 2008) are believed to be intelligent, creative, and resourceful, and have the ability to form strong social bonds.

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socks(10a)

I'm concerned about children. If one sick adult infects one child who then goes to school, many, many students, teachers and staff could be affected, subsequently anyone they come in contact with. The experts do not yet know when a person is contagious, a few days before symptoms or when symptoms appear. They say, "don't panic." I'm not panicked, no one is panicked that I see, but I am worried and hope this can be halted before it grows too much.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

This is not good news:
New coronavirus can cause infections with no symptoms and sicken otherwise healthy people, studies show

https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/24/coronavirus-infections-no-symptoms-lancet-studies/

About a third of the 41 patients needed intensive care, and six of them died. Some of the patients with more serious illnesses suffered from a dangerous immune system overreaction called a cytokine storm, but the researchers said they still did not have a good understanding of how the virus affects the immune system.

As of Friday, there were more than 830 cases of the coronavirus infection in China, with 25 deaths, and a handful of cases in places — including Thailand, Japan, South Korea, and the United States — that were in people who traveled to those countries from China.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

It makes me very nervous when Xi says the problem is accelerating. From the NYT:

“Confronted with the grave situation of this accelerating spread of pneumonia from infections with the novel coronavirus, we must step up the centralized and united leadership under the party central” leadership, Mr. Xi said.



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adoptedbyhounds

According to wired.com, the first public health warning came from an AI "epidemiologist" developed in Canada. The developer had experience with the SARS outbreak, and saw the need for more information than what governments were willing to provide during that crisis. Interesting article.


Edited: I forgot to add that Dr. Ding updated his Twitter message to include a different study with less horrifying numbers than the one reported by Thor. That study found the coronavirus under discussion still very concerning, but predicted a lower rate of infection.


https://www.wired.com/story/ai-epidemiologist-wuhan-public-health-warnings/#intcid=recommendations_wired-bottom-recirc-personalized-similar_5283d990-e362-4a73-8007-5e8b666afccb_similar2-3-personalized_entityTopicSimilarity

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

The Black Plague was carried by fleas, not rats. The fleas lived on the rats to be sure—and a lot of other mammals, including humans.

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Kathy

Consider this has only been happening since Dec 30th. A relatively short time. We have a way to go yet.

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mr1010

An article in msm predicted today there will be 300,000 new cases in China alone in the next 10 days. There are currently confirmed cases in France (2), Australia, US, Japan, South Korea, Thailand and several other Asian countries.

A doctor was quoted as saying the facial masks are not adequate to stop the spread as they're too loose, and you'd need goggles to protect the virus from entering the eyes.

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pb32

I hope I'm wrong, but this one looks like it's going to get bad. The numbers are skyrocketing in China. I have some faith in the US's ability to handle this here, but China screwed up badly by underplaying this in the early days.

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Kathy

China is building a hospital for the Coronavirus in just 6 days.

“Wuhan, China is the epicenter of a new type of coronavirus that has infected more than 830 people and killed as many as 26 throughout China, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, Singapore, Vietnam, Taiwan, and the United States. To tackle the crisis, the city began construction on a 1,000-bed temporary hospital in Wuhan’s Caidian district Thursday evening. Officials have said they plan to finish the project in just six days.

That's right: six days.

Hundreds of workers are already at the bustling six-acre construction site, operating diggers and other heavy equipment. According to the Changjiang Daily, more than 35 diggers and 10 bulldozers were dispatched to the scene Thursday evening—many from China Construction Third Engineering Bureau. Locals in the region told the South China Morning Post the city is paying workers as much as 1,200 yuan (about $173) per day in an attempt to quicken the pace.”

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a30655741/china-build-hospital-coronavirus/

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palisades_

Someone arrived at RDU who may be infected with the virus. The link below has the story, and links to additional information.

I recently followed up on this development and was glad to know the test turned out negative.

However, the situation looks grave in China, with a warning from China’s Xi as death toll continues to rise.

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margaritadina

''THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

This is not good news:
New coronavirus can cause infections with no symptoms and sicken otherwise healthy people, studies show

https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/24/coronavirus-infections-no-symptoms-lancet-studies/
About a third of the 41 patients needed intensive care, and six of
them died. Some of the patients with more serious illnesses suffered
from a dangerous immune system overreaction called a cytokine storm, but
the researchers said they still did not have a good understanding of
how the virus affects the immune system.''

I wonder of it's a natural virus or an altered one? There is a bio lab in Wuhan ...

I also wonder if Chinese gov downplays the number of infected victims. 56 M quarantined, hundreds with symptoms were turned away in the thirst and second day and only 1200 sick? China is overpopulated, people live so close to each other, masks are not very effective...

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margaritadina


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Kathy

Margaritadina, that map is really scary.

“With the flu, you’re sick two days after you’re exposed," said Monto, who worked in Beijing, China, during another coronavirus outbreak, the 2002-2003 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, or SARS, outbreak. "This is more like five days, and sometimes up to 11 days, which means that when you screen at ports of entry looking for fever, you may miss people who will get sick later."

It's those people, he said, who could be spreading coronavirus to others on airplanes, in airports and to health care workers who treat their symptoms. ”

Two cases in Mi. One in my county. Not good. Symptoms take 5-11 days to show so it has a lot of time to spread as opposed to flu 2 days.

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margaritadina

''Kathy

Margaritadina, that map is really scary.''

Kathy, the US has all resources necessary to keep the virus at bay. The threat of it spreading is very low, almost non existent.

In fact, ''regular'' yearly flu is more dangerous - ''8,200 people have died and 140,000 people have been hospitalized during the 2019-2020 flu season''.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1300-people-died-flu-year/story?id=67754182

I hope that people infected with coronavirus don't have any underlying conditions to complicate their survival and recovery.


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margaritadina

Third case confirmed in CA.

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Tilly Teabag

I’m not taking my child to the city unless absolutely necessary until this is all over. Safer here in the country, except for the shortage of doctors.

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Kathy

Margaritadina , that really isn’t true. We can’t contain it when people are carrying and spreading the virus for up to 11 days before symptoms, which may be mild. The old, the infirm, and physically compromised will most likely be the ones who get it the worst.

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Kathy


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Nana H

1st reported case in Canada. Surprised it had taken so long. As far as containing it, that is much more difficult than some may think. I recall the SARS virus outbreak in Toronto clearly. It was brutal.

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Kathy

The virus increased 50% in 24 hours. 50 million in China are quarantined and countries are evacuating. The virus is located in the upper airways meaning coughing on others can spread disease.


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ubro(2a)

Don't jump the gun, as of this morning the case in Canada is still not confirmed, the tests are not back yet.

ETA, We certainly expect that this will be positive

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adoptedbyhounds

Palisades, Thanks for following up on what turned out NOT to be the virus at RDU.

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ubro(2a)

It is interesting that up here the idea is being floated on the news that the best way people could help, so that emergency rooms are not overrun and hospitals are not stressed to the max, is by getting your flu vaccination.

If there are less people with the regular flu going to the hospital that would help everyone.

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palisades_

It is interesting that up here the idea is being floated on the news that the best way people could help, so that emergency rooms are not overrun and hospitals are not stressed to the max, is by getting your flu vaccination.

It certainly would help to prevent the overload at the ERs and hospitals because the flu vaccination, although not 100% effective, reduces the numbers of flu cases, and leaves more resources for other health facilities to face Coronavirus cases. It may take up from 10 days to 2 weeks for your body to build up antibodies from flu vaccines. With or without a flu shot, boosting up your own body immunity with daily food or supplements in zinc and vit-C - fresh orange, lime, lemon juice would be one significant preventative measure.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Vitamin C and zinc have no clinical evidence supporting their efficacy in preventing the flu. Hand washing, and not touching your eyes mouth or nose are your best defenses.

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palisades_

Hand washing, and not touching your eyes mouth or nose are your best defenses.

Always recommended practices above. In close proximity, virus can be transmitted via inhaling minuscule airborne droplets (coughing, sneezing) from infected persons - often occurring during many close interactions between healthcare staffs and patients, so a strong body immunity would help.

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chipotle

Now 5 cases in the U.S.

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chipotle



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mr1010

CDC and US Govt. should have quarantined every person coming in from Wuhan by

plane. Quarantine them whether or not they show symptoms. Too late now.

In horse boarding facilities we quarantine all incoming new horses for 3 weeks until

the period of any symptoms showing up is over. Humans should do the same now.

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Nana H

It is clear that the protocols established after the SARS epidemic should be in place but I am braced for the worse.

I have two Chinese nieces, every year they celebrate Chinese New Years with a Dim Sum Sunday in Chinatown. Guess what.......they did the same today.

I give them credit but have told them they better not go near my darling little grandson for at least three weeks or they will have Nana to answer to.... : )

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Kathy

Mr1010. I was thinking the same when I read people are evacuating China.

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Izzy Mn(4)

Just read this article. They are still trying to determine the origin of virus. Some testing is showing possibly from snakes. That is really unusual I think. Usually viruses jump species like from mammal to mammal, or at least warm blooded to warm blooded but I would think it would be unusual from cold blooded to warm blooded.

https://www.sciencealert.com/snakes-are-the-likely-source-of-china-s-deadly-coronavirus-here-s-why

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momofdoxies

It probably will be years before they know the origin of the virus if ever. We still don't know for certain the source for the SARS virus of 2002. I remember that in 2017 they found a bat colony that they thought might be the origin, but were never able to prove it. The researchers that I spoke with yesterday said that it is believed that the snakes were infected by bats. If my memory serves me correctly, there are both warm blooded bats and cold blooded bats.

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Izzy Mn(4)

Momo, I had to look it up. There is variation of cold-bloodedness. Torpor and hibernation in mammels which is a distant cousin form of cold bloodedness. Learn something new everyday!!

Sorry to go off topic.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160609-time-to-bust-a-myth-not-all-mammals-are-warm-blooded

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cattyles

Brazos County Tx case is negative.

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margaritadina

''

mr1010


In horse boarding facilities we quarantine all incoming new horses for 3 weeks until the period of any symptoms showing up is over.

''

Same for a new arrivals in animal shelters.

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margaritadina

The first case of coronavirus was reported on Dec 1, 2019 ?

''

New Research Casts Doubt Coronavirus Epidemic Started At Wuhan Food Market



Although practically all of the western media reports from the city of
Wuhan have claimed that the city's hospitals have been completely
overwhelmed by cases of pneumonia as more cases of the Wuhan coronavirus
are confirmed, the South China Morning Post
reports that a team of researchers at Wuhan’s Jinyintan hospital have
retraced the movements of the first individual who was diagnosed with
the virus, and determined that he had no links to a shady seafood market
selling live snakes and bats for human consumption.


The researchers, seven of whom work at Wuhan’s Jinyintan hospital,
designated for patients with the illness, revealed on Friday in The
Lancet medical journal that symptoms of the new disease were first
reported on December 1 – much earlier than the Wuhan government’s
initial announcement on December 31 of 27 cases of the pneumonia-like
infection.

According to the report, the first patient had no exposure to
the Huanan seafood market which was shut down on January 1 over fears –
later confirmed – that the new virus was linked to its trade in wild
animals.
The researchers added that none of the patient’s
family had developed fever or any respiratory symptoms. There was also
no epidemiological link between the first patient and the later cases,
they found.

The researchers analysed data from 41 patients with confirmed
infections who had showed an onset of symptoms up to January 2. Six of
those patients died, putting the fatality rate of the group at 15 per
cent. The researchers noted that clinical presentations of the patients
greatly resembled severe acute respiratory syndrome.

The first patient to die from the new coronavirus had continuous exposure to the market
before he was admitted to hospital with a seven-day history of fever,
cough and breathing difficulties, according to their report.

Doctors also identified 13 other patients who had no contact with the
market, which helps build the case for human to human transmission.

The absence of a link to the seafood market is one of the indicators
for human-to-human transmission of the virus and the researchers
identified another 13 patients who also had no direct exposure to the
market.

"Taken together, evidence so far indicates human transmission for 2019-nCoV," the report said. "We are concerned that 2019-nCoV could have acquired the ability for efficient human transmission,"
the researchers added, along with a strong recommendation for
precautions such as fit-tested N95 respirators and other personal
protective equipment.

Much to Beijing's chagrin, a team of Chinese scientists on Friday
revealed that symptoms of the virus first emerged as early as Dec. 1,
much earlier than the Wuhan government's initial announcement of the
first 27 cases on Dec. 31. The notion that the virus may have been
transmitted to humans via consuming bats, rats, badgers or snakes was widely reported in the Western press, even by CNN.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/no-bat-soup-new-research-casts-doubt-links-shady-seafood-market

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mudhouse

Just bumping this thread because I don't think this site has been shared here yet.

It's an interactive map from Johns Hopkins, and I've been watching it for a few days. Seems to be updated often to reflect the latest number and location of cases. You can scroll in and out to see detail about individual cities, and you can scroll to see the entire world. Helpful and scary at the same time.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

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Kathy

New list of airports screening for the virus.


I did read a vaccine might be done by April but it didn’t know when it would be available to the public.


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Kathy

6000 people are being held on a cruise ship in Italy because a woman might have Coronavirus. CNN

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dandyfopp

Sure lots of people will die and this could become a worldwide pandemic, but Wilbur said its going to be great for our economy so its not all bad news.

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Kathy

Yes, Dandy. He said it will bring jobs back to America.

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Nana H

SMH......what a stupid thing to say.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Was just reported that Russia has closed down it's ~2,000 mile border with China. Maybe they should build a wall?....and make China pay for it.

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Kathy

The first case of person to person transmission of Coronavirus in US.

https://apple.news/AyV8RHxsQS0-G05JV3p6Y4w

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Kathy

WHO declares global emergency.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

No coronavirus but the regular flu on the cruise ship being held in Civitavecchia -- but complaints from the passengers who had to depend on social media to know what was happening. The cruise ship is not yet leaving.

Civitavecchia, negativi i test sui passeggeri cinesi: "Semplice influenza". La nave da crociera non ripartirà stasera

Il passeggero a bordo: "Per ore senza informazioni, abbiamo saputo dai social"

Two Chinese tourists in Rome are ill with the coronavirus -- the first cases in Italy. (They arrived at Malpensa, Milan's airport.) PM Conte wants to close air traffic to and from China. Reports from Milan that the city's Chinatown is deserted.

A journalist took Italians to task over the reaction to coronavirus; he listed the "normal" activities that Italians do -- smoking, drunk driving, etc -- and then contrasted the panic over coronavirus with its very low fatality rate.



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margaritadina

''

vgkg (Va Z-7)

Was
just reported that Russia has closed down it's ~2,000 mile border with
China. Maybe they should build a wall?....and make China pay for it.
''

They don't need to. Russia has loaded Kalashnikovs finger on the trigger for every ''undocumented immigrant''. Russia doesn't have a problem with illegal immigration, they don't need a wall.

Also, Russia stopped issuing visas to Chinese folks.


A cruise ship is quarantined in Italy, 7K people on board after Chinese woman tourist fell ill (case not confirmed).

-------------------------

The whole world is on it's toes but the official statistics of sick and deceased is low. I think China is hiding the truth .

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Chinese woman tourist fell ill (case not confirmed).

Not coronavirus but the regular flu. See above comments.

The passenger was examined by the same doctor who examined the Italian diplomats recalled from China.

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margaritadina

/\/\ oh good, thank you pointing this out.

-------------

Chinese pet owners are buying masks for their dogs, apparently, pets are vulnerable, too. Not sure if it's true or not, but saw pics of dogs wearing masks.

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Kathy

I can’t imagine the chaos this is starting to cause on airlines, ships etc. I was getting my nails done and the girl sneezed. Immediately that came to mind. Ugh!

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Ann

Kathy, I know. I heard a really bad and strange cough when out and about yesterday and it came to my mind too.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

I rubbed my eye today and immediately froze. My brain knows there is almost no risk but my subconscious says otherwise!

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Kathy

We do need to be aware. It’s so easy to be complacent. A little over caution is warranted with how widespread it seems to be.

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how2girl

Big claims here, but I guess it’s the least we can do


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Kathy

How2girl, what is the product name? Detiol? It is blurry on my iPad.

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catspa_zone9sunset14

A 3% hydrogen peroxide solution also inactivates coronavirus (source). It's what we use to disinfect biology lab benches.

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terezosa / terriks

It's Dettol. Apparently from the UK

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ubro(2a)

The first Canadian case was released from hospital today.

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how2girl

Yes it’s called Dettol. Comes in cleaning wipes, anti-bac hand gel & disinfectant (here in Aus. & UK).


Dettol is a brand owned by RB (formerly Reckitt Benckiser), a British consumer products company. It markets the Dettolbrand in Canada but not the US.


Walmart.com

Dettol First Aid Antiseptic Liquid 8.45 oz

DettolModel: 012496000426




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margaritadina

''Coronovirus – China threatens to KILL dogs and cats if pet owners do not ‘deal with’ their animals amid panic over bug''

https://www.the-sun.com/news/341918/coronovirus-china-threatens-to-kill-dogs-if-pet-owners-do-not-deal-with-their-animals-amid-panic-over-deadly-bug/

Dealing with animals = owners suppose to kill them themselves.

Some people throw their pets off the roof tops.

This is the proof, don't open the link

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10863349/coronavirus-cats-and-dogs-thrown-to-death/

I HATE China.


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margaritadina

And the word from the enemies of this country.

''

CNN Politics

@CNNPolitics

Coronavirus task force another example of Trump administration's lack of diversity | Analysis https://cnn.it/2GCpbED

''

''

"We will continue to monitor
the ongoing developments," the President said in his post. "We have the
best experts anywhere in the world, and they are on top of it 24/7!"

Who are these experts? They're largely the same sorts of white men (and a couple women on the sidelines) who've dominated the Trump administration from the very beginning.

By contrast, former President Barack Obama's circle of advisers in the
face of the 2014 Ebola outbreak in West Africa was hardly so
monochromatic. Neither was it so abysmal in terms of gender diversity.''

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/30/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-diversity-obama/index.html?utm_content=2020-01-30T19%3A28%3A03&utm_term=image&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twCNNp


CNN never fail to surprise me with their stupidity and hate of white people.

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Ann

That CNN lack of diversity issue/complaint regarding the Coronavirus task force is truly insane. I heard the story and thought it had to be a joke, but it isn't. I can't believe anyone anywhere is harping about diversity when it comes to a Coronavirus task force. How about we just look at this logically and hope like heck this task force is effective, regardless of their age, sex, religious beliefs, skin color, political views, or anything at all besides their ability to deal with the situation at hand. Jeez!!!!!

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Kathy

What is bad is Trump cut millions from the funds for other countries to fight diseases and we have no experts left in our administration. There is a task force in the WH but they don’t have any expertise. Cutting these funds have more repercussions than is visible at first glance.

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margaritadina

/\/\ Oh, orange man bad, CNN stupidity and racism omitted ! I saw it coming )))) These countries have to pay for themselves if they want to continue eating wild animals. Or, they have to stop this practice completely to get money from the US tax payer. They can't have both.

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Kathy

Margaritadina

Look it up for yourself. In the meantime use bleach around the house. I agree China and other countries need to fix their problems, but we can help educate and vaccinate or we will suffer the consequences of their diseases. It’s a global problem.

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margaritadina

Kathy, I never questioned your statement about Trump cutting of funds.

I don't understand why should we borrow money from China to pay for them eating wild animals that are not suppose to be on the humans' menu in the first place? China can pay for itself and it's exotic cuisine. They built a 1000 beds hospital in days, they can stop illegal markets in a day.

Doctors in Africa are attacked and hospitals demolished by crowds of people who believe that Ebola (carried by fruit bats) is a myth. We can't fix it.


Thank you for the warning, but I am not going to use bleach to sanitize my house. I see it as going a bit too far. Trump handles it the best way possible. I took all necessary precautions and kept a ''red alert'' routine longer then my neighbors when a lady in my neighborhood passed away from the West Nile Virus. Coronavirus is way too remote to worry about it. When people around me cough, Coronavirus doesn't come to my mind.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Margaritadina:

Why do you get to decide what is “exotic” cuisine?

Why is eating bat more “exotic” than eating oysters or sushi or rabbit?

From a biological standpoint humans have evolved to eat anything they can catch within their ecosystem.

From a cultural standpoint “exotic” doesn’t exist if the species being eaten is indigenous to the same area as the person eating it.

Even from a biblical standpoint, in the NT Peter is invited to “kill and eat” animals that were previously deemed “unclean.”

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Kathy

We in US are not on an island. We are in a global society whether we like it or not. Travel and business contacts are worldwide. If the US keeps cutting regulations we will soon be more like China and these other third world countries. Instead of raising their standards we are lowering ours. The only ones who will benefit are the profiteers.


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ubro(2a)

Why do you get to decide what is “exotic” cuisine?

Why is eating bat more “exotic” than eating oysters or sushi or rabbit?

Or squirrels, beaver, seal, alligator and on and on.


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Kathy

Remember frog legs were a big deal, turtle soup, squid? I am squeamish about all those delicacies. Koala bears just doesn’t seem okay with me, but I eat parts of cows, chickens, fish and pigs. It all sounds gross when I see it in print. It can happen in US too if regulation keeps on going by the wayside.

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Tilly Teabag

We don’t eat koalas, but I have had Kangaroo, which is a lean meat available in supermarkets, plus I have tasted emu and crocodile when on honeymoon in the Northern Territory.

I decided to stay off eating native animals since the bushfires killed so many this year.

Of course, the kids still do ride kangaroos to school...

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margaritadina

''miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Margaritadina:

Why do you get to decide what is “exotic” cuisine?

Why is eating bat more “exotic” than eating oysters or sushi or rabbit?

From a biological standpoint humans have evolved to eat anything they can catch within their ecosystem.''

miss lindsey, I get to decide that animals are not fried, boiled and eaten alive like it's done in China. I will fight that because it doesn't fit my picture of the world.

From the exotic cuisine mankind already has to deal with AIDS, Ebola and now this coronavirus. Farm animals make people sick, too, but to no comparison to the above. Farming assumes keeping animals as healthy as possible. Not without missteps but still with great success. Eating some poor creature caught in the wild exposes humans to great risks of contracting unknown and even incurable diseases. If they want to continue this practice they have to have protocols dealing with aftermath. I am surprised we are having this discussion.

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margaritadina

''Kathy

We
in US are not on an island. We are in a global society whether we like
it or not. Travel and business contacts are worldwide. If the US keeps
cutting regulations we will soon be more like China and these other
third world countries. Instead of raising their standards we are
lowering ours. The only ones who will benefit are the profiteers.''

You have a good point here, Kathy, we are a global society. With one part of it paying for another part of it. I visited Central Asia in the 90s and what did I see there? I saw humanitarian assistance been sold at the local markets everywhere. It had the original packaging attached - they didn't even bother to remove it, it was normal to sell goods that supposed to be distributed to people in need. Same is going on in Africa. We can't fix it, we can't raise their standards. We can close borders at the time of global outbreaks, that's pretty much all that we can do.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

I eat venison (that’s wild deer) on a regular basis. In my fridge are four duck breasts, shot in or fields.

Is that exotic, because they were wild rather than domesticated? Am I at greater risk in eating them than if I eat beef (BSE) or farmed chickens (avian flu)?

It is the slaughter, storage, and preparation of any meat that makes it safe or unsafe, not the species of meat itself. We are constantly evolving within our ecosystem, and more importantly so are pathogens. Eventually humans as a species may evolve to the point where this particular coronavirus is no worse for us than other coronaviruses.

But that doesn’t somehow make it wrong or dangerous to eat wild game. I trust the rabbit shot in a backyard more than the chicken grown in an enclosed barn and slaughtered with 1000s of others.

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chipotle


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mr1010

and the news is reporting that today's # of cases in China will be doubled in 6 days.

Doubled in 6 days. Chew on that.

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Kathy

In the spring of 2018, the White House pushed Congress to cut funding for Obama-era disease security programs, proposing to eliminate $252 million in previously committed resources for rebuilding health systems in Ebola-ravaged Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea. Under fire from both sides of the aisle, President Donald Trump dropped the proposal to eliminate Ebola funds a month later. But other White House efforts included reducing $15 billion in national health spending and cutting the global disease-fighting operational budgets of the CDC, NSC, DHS, and HHS. And the government’s $30 million Complex Crises Fund was eliminated,” FP explained.

Are we prepared for a pandemic?

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

Because giving money to the third world prevents pandemics? Since when did those countries even have "health systems"? You are giving far to much credit to some of the most corrupt governments on earth.


"$252 million in previously committed resources for rebuilding health systems in Ebola-ravaged Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea. "

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Izzy Mn(4)

I've seen some talk that China is under reporting how many have the virus. China is shutting down talk on social media. I saw one where someone is sleeping in his car to keep his family from catching it. There has been some reports of large burial areas with a lot of bodies of people who have succumbed to the virus. Of course not verified, I read it on a twitter stream. But it's in line on how China handles things.

I've read that China in the past has not been cooperative with sharing flu viruses with WHO that is needed to help predict and develop the coming flu vaccines. I think the try and zero in on two strains in their predictions.

China has always had a more closed and restricted society and this current epidemic is showing just how much they are trying to keep the information from flowing freely. Of course none of this seems to be verifiable.

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Kathy

When one contemplates how much of our pharmaceuticals come from China, it becomes a threat to US. We are not on an island. When we fight disease anywhere we are protecting Americans.

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ubro(2a)

Now a cruise ship has been quarantined off the coast of Japan. Ten people have been removed to the mainland with a positive coronavirus diagnosis. 3700 people on board. How many ports of call did these people get off at to see the sites, wander the streets?

Because giving money to the third world prevents pandemics? Since when did those countries even have "health systems"? You are giving far to much credit to some of the most corrupt governments on earth.

No one is giving them credit , and I am pretty sure that other govt.'s know how corrupt they are. The other option is to do nothing, they spread it to others and how long before it crosses the ocean to your world? You cannot isolate yourself from everyone. As vigilant as you wish to be mistakes happen and people slip by.

This is not a Chinese problem, this is a world problem.

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Kathy

Ten people is a lot to be spreading Coronavirus. It is silly and naive to think we are not living in a global society.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

The fall of colonialism was not a good thing for many countries.


This pandemic should illustrate to all how susceptible everyone is globally. I wish we had an idea of the actual fatality rate is.

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Wants to Grow

Hi Jonnygun, An AI-powered simulation run by a technology executive says that Coronavirus could infect as many as 2.5 billion people within 45 days and kill as many as 52.9 million of them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/02/05/ai-predicts-coronavirus-could-infect-25b-and-kill-53m-doctors-say-thats-not-credible-and-heres-why/#2fdc0bca11cd

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margaritadina

Saudi Arabia closed the border today and it makes it the 16th country to take this measure.

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Kathy

The doctor that warned of the virus is now in critical condition.

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cattyles

I read that he died.

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chipotle

He did.



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Kathy

That’s so sad. RIP.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

24,604 cases, 494 (+68) deaths to 05FEB2020
+2,472, +2,411,+3,765, +4,016 over past 4 days




The graph below ends on Jan 30, cases have increased by 2.5x since then.

https://nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/asia/china-coronavirus-contain.html

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margaritadina

Good precaution measure. The virus is taken seriously.


''Four people on Royal Caribbean cruise ship hospitalized after ship docks in Bayonne.


The Royal Caribbean cruise ship on which dozens of people were screened for coronavirus
docked in New Jersey on Friday morning — and four passengers were
rushed to Newark’s University Hospital “out of caution,” officials said.''


https://nypost.com/2020/02/07/four-people-on-royal-caribbean-cruise-ship-hospitalized-after-ship-docks-in-bayonne/

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Ann

Honestly, I'm rather impressed with the low number of U.S. cases. The measures the U.S. are taking must be pretty effective.

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Izzy Mn(4)

May have identified the animal that the virus came from. A pangolin. A endangered species that Chinese use its scales in "traditional medicine" and apparently eat the meat also. I saw a PBS show, or maybe national geographic about the illegal trade with this particular animal. It's being hunted to extinction for illegal Chinese trade. Maybe mother nature's payback?

https://www.foxne4ws.com/science/chinese-scientists-say-pangolin-is-possible-coronavirus-host

The article also mentions there may be 100,000 cases.

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ubro(2a)

Ten people is a lot to be spreading Coronavirus. It is silly and naive to think we are not living in a global society.

They removed 41 more people from the ship this morning who are now sick.

There is also a cruise ship in the asian pacific that cannot find a port in which to dock, Japan has refused them as well as a few others.


"At this point in time, we are officially abandoned at sea with nowhere to go."

He said the captain also advised them that Holland America Line was speaking with "the US Department of State and the US Navy to work out where the boat will go now".


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-07/stricken-westerdam-cruise-ship-denied-entry-to-japan/11943860

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Izzy Mn(4)

Australian scientists outside of China copied the coronavirus. That's the first step in developing a vaccine.

Hopefully with more labs working on the development of a vaccine there will be success.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-29/wuhan-coronavirus-created-in-australian-lab-outside-of-china/11906390

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Kathy

Ann, what measures is the US taking? I have heard very little.

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titian1 10b Sydney

There is also a possibility that the virus escaped from a level 4 lab in Wuhan. Chinese scientists working in a level 4 lab in Canada are thought to have stolen it. My son says the Chinese Government have been very clever, and have planted spies everywhere. As they threaten people, and their families, with 'detention', it's pretty easy to recruit. He also said that a Chinese newspaper inadvertently published what may have been the real figures for cases and deaths, and it was in the tens of thousands for cases.

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titian1 10b Sydney

The other thing I was told the other day, which may have already been stated previously (apologies if it has), is that the virus is contained in an 'envelope', and can live for 5 days on a surface.

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Izzy Mn(4)

Lots of stuff swirling around internet on Chinese and stolen viruses from a Canadian lab. Looks like it's been deemed false by reputable fact checkers. At this point anyway. Let's not jump too quickly on what could be false accusations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/china-coronavirus-online-chatter-conspiracy-1.5442376


The Chinese have used unscrupulous practices so suspicion about them is well founded. I know of a young American family that moved to China for what was to be a amazing opportunity about 15 or maybe 20 years ago, he was in tech. Her daughter and my son were enrolled in the same preschool class. The apartment they were brought to were not close to the pictures they were shown. No hot water, two rooms, dirty, hole in floor for toilet (pictures were of a lux apartment) They took their passports and threatened them. After a week they were able sneak out of apartment in the middle of the night to get themselves to a American embassy to get out. They left with the clothes on their backs. They were young couple just out of college with a 3 year old girl. They were naive and didn't realize they could be so taken advantage of. It was really scary for them.

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Kathy

Gee, Izzy, it’s scary to hear a story like that from someone so close to the situation.

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Ann

Kathy, steps like quarantining American citizens (for 14 days) arriving from Wuhan, a travel ban on foreign nationals coming from China to the U.S., screenings at 20 different airports, isolation of sick patients, rerouting of specific flights to 11 prepared airports, etc.

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margaritadina

''

Kathy

Ann, what measures is the US taking? I have heard very little. ''

All evacuated by air are placed in 14 days quarantine in CA. Cruise ship is quarantined in NJ as we speak. Four of it's tourists with fever were tested for corona - false alarm.

I hear that Chinatown in NY is losing business right now. The ordinary people take precautions, too.

----------------------------

Izzy, terrible, but very reveling story.

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Izzy Mn(4)

I didn't know the young mother well. We went to a cafe a few times with few of the other mother's while kids in preschool for a few hours. She and her husband were excited to go to China, an adventure, I thought it brave to do something so adventurous. Then a few months after she had left she came by to visit and told us what had happened. She was still pretty shaken. They were threatened by the company that hired him and were mentally abusive, they felt trapped there, not free to leave. She had family that were going to help them get back on their feet back here in Minnesota she told us. A short story made the local papers about their ordeal but it didn't make the national news. Never heard from her or any follow up in paper about it. I'm sure there was more to the story, but I don't know that.

This horrible story comes to my mind whenever I hear about the shady-ness of China and how they treat their own people. I'm always sceptical of anything China after that.

Just FYI, neither were of Asian decent. Both born in America, Caucasian, no ties to any Chinese citizen in any way.

Sorry to go off topic. Just had to tell their story.

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Kathy

Now that other countries have the virus it will be harder to screen. I’m going to be flying soon. Ugh

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margaritadina
  • The first coronavirus death of an American citizen was confirmed by the US government Saturday morning
  • The unnamed US national, aged 60, passed away Thursday from the virus in Wuhan
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Nana H

Hopefully this will come to an end sooner rather than later but I just canceled a special cruise we were looking forward to. Can't imagine how awful it must be to be on one of those ships.


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queenmargo

That was a smart move Nana. I would not cruise or fly right now if you paid me.

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Ann

I don't think I'd take a cruise right now either. Maybe a flight within the U.S., but I'm glad to not have any flight plans either.

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Kathy

Ten of the cases in US were people who traveled to Wuhan and the other 2 are their spouses. Traveling to different countries might be a different matter. I don’t think we have to be alarmed but we do need to be vigilant. Although I have to fly it is in the states and not to a foreign country. I’m not overly concerned yet but it is worrisome.

I heard they took the sick people off the ship so at least the people stuck on the ship are not exposed to them.

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margaritadina

Good decision, Nana. It's not worth it.

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Nana H

I'm less worried about air travel depending on where. Think we well go to England for the month instead......but won' t confirm bookings just yet.

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Nana H

The death toll has now surpassed that of SARS but apparently they are seeing a deceleration in cases.......Hopefully

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Kathy

They were waiting to see a decline in cases. Maybe it has reached a peak? Yes, hopefully.

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Kathy

Li Wenliang, a 34-year-old ophthalmologist in Wuhan, warned medical school classmates about evidence of a new virus in an online forum on Dec. 30, and the authorities later forced him to declare that he had spread an unfounded rumor. His death has prompted a rare online revolt in China.

Quotable: Dr. Li spoke to The Times for an article published last week: “If the officials had disclosed information about the epidemic earlier,” he said, “I think it would have been a lot better. There should be more openness and transparency.”


NYT


A citizen journalist who was reporting about the virus has gone missing. It sounds as if he and Dr Li might have spoken against the govt of China.

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Kathy

Royal Caribbean's Anthem of the Seas cruise ship, which has been docked in Bayonne, New Jersey, since returning on Friday, will be able to set sail Monday, however, after four passengers who were taken to hospital for further evaluation showed no signs of the virus.

All 3,600 people on board the World Dream ship in Hong Kong will also be able to disembark Monday, after five days under quarantine. Health authorities said that everyone on board had tested negative.

Passengers on board the Princess Cruises liner in Yokohama have not been so lucky. So far at least 136 passengers tested positive for the coronavirus, amid signs of a full blown outbreak on board, one of the largest outside of mainland China.

Those cruise passengers have been under strict quarantine for over a week now, confined to their cabins as medical personnel conduct tests on the 3,700 people on board.

Princess Cruises said it will offer a full refund to all passengers on board. The company's president, Jan Swartz, thanked passengers for their "perseverance and understanding."

"All monies paid to Princess Cruises including your cruise fare, round trip Princess Air, pre- or post-Cruise Plus hotels, transfers, prepaid shore excursions, gratuities and other items, and taxes, fees and port expenses will be refunded to the original form of payment," Swartz wrote.

Swartz said the company will "refund reasonable independent expenses," along with air travel, transfers or pre/post-cruise hotels. Each guest also will receive a 100% future cruise credit equal to the fare passengers paid for the quarantined voyage, Swartz wrote. That credit has to be applied by February 28, 2021.

"It is our sincere hope that the refund and credit will help ease at least a small bit of the stress you may be feeling right now," Swartz wrote in a letter to passengers.

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ubro(2a)

Another 65 cases removed from the ship in Japan. IMO it is a good thing the quarantined this ship, think of the implications had they not.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

IMPOTUS has it under control.

"A lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat. As the heat comes in. Typically that will go away in April. We're in great shape, though."

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cattyles

No way. Did he really say that?

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Monday the stable genius told a group of governors at the White House
that the coronavirus, which has killed over nine hundred people and
infected over 40,000 is going to go away in April. Because it will be
warmer weather in April. No, really.

DONALD TRUMP: A lot of people think that goes away in April with the
heat. As the heat comes in. Typically that will go away in April. We're
in great shape, though.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

The head of the World Health Organization disagrees:

In an evolving public health emergency, all countries must step up efforts to prepare for #2019nCoV’s
possible arrival and do their utmost to contain it should it arrive.
This means lab capacity for rapid diagnosis, contact tracing and other
tools in the public health arsenal.

— Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus (@DrTedros) February 9, 2020

As I told media yesterday, #2019nCoV spread outside #China
appears to be slow now, but could accelerate. Containment remains our
objective, but all countries must use the window of opportunity created
by the containment strategy to prepare for the virus’s possible arrival.

— Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus (@DrTedros) February 9, 2020

There’ve been some concerning instances of onward #2019nCoV
spread from people with no travel history to 🇨🇳. The detection of a
small number of cases may indicate more widespread transmission in other
countries; in short, we may only be seeing the tip of the iceberg.

— Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus (@DrTedros) February 9, 2020

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Kathy

There is no wall that can protect us. Cutting the CDC 3 years in a row makes US less able to fight a pandemic.

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Nana H

Nah , cut the CDC and add to the military. Soldiers and missiles are the best defense against deadly viruses.

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cattyles

Winning?

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margaritadina

''

THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

DONALD TRUMP: A lot of people think that goes away in April with the
heat. As the heat comes in. Typically that will go away in April. We're
in great shape, though.

''

That would be fantastic, but I took 10 days sick leave this year due to a flu virus. In July.

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Kathy


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margaritadina

What is hard to believe? That we are not paying for Chinese epidemic with the money borrowed from China? They can pay for themselves, they are rich.

We have enough expenses paying for their exotic culinary art over here.

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Kathy
  • most U.S. global health funding designated for specific country and regional efforts is allocated to Africa, followed by South and Central Asia, the Near East, East Asia and the Pacific, the Western Hemisphere, and Europe and Eurasia.15

More than half of global funding goes for HIV


We paid for tax cuts for Corps with borrowed money from China but we can’t pay for health?

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margaritadina

You see, Corps are bastards, but they are our bastards. For starters, they provide employment for thousands of people in the US. Other countries govs should pay a little more for their citizens. That's all.

Trump did not shut down these programs, he cut it back a little. It's not a great decision, but the US is drowning in debt.


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Jonnygun(zone 7)

China's health.

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Kathy

Global health

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margaritadina

''

The World Health Organization has given coronavirus a new name in order to prevent people feeling ‘stigmatized’.

The coronavirus has been officially named ‘COVID-19’ because
according to the WHO, “We had to find a name that did not refer to a
geographical location, an animal, an individual or group of people.

"Having a name matters to prevent the use of
other names that can be inaccurate or stigmatizing. It also gives us a
standard format to use for any future coronavirus outbreaks"-@DrTedros #COVID19

— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) February 11, 2020

”''

The world still knows where the virus came from. China has been a steady supplier of deadly diseases for centuries. Look what happened to Hawaii and Central Asia.....


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Kathy

but the US is drowning in debt.


Trump is adding to the debt and not one Rep will condemn it. Just remember that when Dems are in office.

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lurker111

Here come that old chart of reality, again...


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margaritadina

''

Kathy

but the US is drowning in debt.


Trump is adding to the debt and not one Rep will condemn it. Just remember that when Dems are in office. ''

You obviously forgot how much the previous administration added to the national dept )))) Maybe you have to revisit to condemn it ))))

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Kathy

It sounds as if you are unaware how much the war cost and how much Bush tax cuts hurt revenue and added to the debt. Now Trump has exacerbated the deficit with tax cuts again.

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margaritadina

''

Bat curry continues to fly off the shelves in Indonesian markets


Bat curry continues to fly off the shelves in Indonesian markets
despite links to coronavirus, as traders boast ‘it is always sold out’
and defy orders to take it off the menu

  • Vendors at the Tomohon Extreme Meat in Indonesia say business is booming
  • An Indonesian government request to take bats off the menu has been ignored
  • Bats are traditionally eaten by the Minahasan people in the form of a curry dish

By Reuters and Afp

Published: 09:42, 11 February 2020 | Updated: 17:02, 12 February 2020

Bats,
rats and snakes are still flying off the shelves at an Indonesian
market known for its wildlife offerings despite a government request to
take them off the menu over coronavirus fears.

Vendors at the
Tomohon Extreme Meat market on Sulawesi island say business is booming
and curious tourists keep arriving to check out the exotic meats.

Bat seller Stenly Timbuleng boasted at his stall in Tomohon that ‘sales continue… it is always sold out.’

Scientists
believe the deadly new virus emerged in a market selling wild animals
in the Chinese city of Wuhan, and there is suspicion it could have
originated in bats.

In Indonesia, the local government and health
agency have issued calls to take bats and other wildlife out of
circulation – but the request has been all but ignored.

Bat
meat is still being sold at a market in Indonesia (pictured) despite a
government request to take the product off the menu over coronavirus
fears

Bats are traditionally eaten by the Minahasan people from North Sulawesi in the form of a curry-like dish called Paniki.

Whole bats are used in the dish, including the head and wings of the bat.

Glands from the armpits and the neck of the bat are first removed to get rid of the bad smell.

It
is then grilled or torched to get rid of the bat’s hairs before being
chopped and cooked in a stew of herbs, spices and coconut milk.

‘Bats
are the favourite indigenous protein, particularly in North Sulawesi,’
said William W. Wongso, an Indonesian culinary expert and cookbook
author.

‘My favourite part is the wings,’ Wongso added.

Stenly Timbuleng, the bat seller, said his products are still selling for as much as 60,000 rupiah (£3.40).

‘The virus hasn’t affected sales. My customers still keep coming,’ he said.

''

https://chochilino.com/lifestyle/2020/02/12/medical-news/bat-curry-continues-to-fly-off-the-shelves-in-indonesian-markets/


These people don't learn. And we suppose to pay for them when they catch some deadly disease.

Right, Kathy?


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Kathy

Global health isn’t about China specifically. You need to read about it on your own instead of arguing with me.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

What did Obama spend the money on?

What is Trump spending the money on?

I don’t mind a government spending money during a recession in order to boost the economy or for infrastructure investments.

I’m not a fan of increasing the debt during a “growing” economy or on frivolous tax cuts to retain a base.

When the economy is growing, that’s the time to pay down debt. It’s how sensible people run their households and the “fiscally conservative” mindset as I was taught it.

ETA sorry so off topic, I forgot what thread I was on until margaritadina posted about bats.

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Kathy

Miss Lindsey, no problem, threads have a tendency to evolve. If that’s the right word, lol.

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Kathy

I do agree China needs to be held responsible in some way for their unconscionable actions concerning serving foods that carry diseases. I also think cutting the Global resources will only make a pandemic more likely to affect US if we aren’t addressing global diseases.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

You obviously forgot how much the previous administration added to the national dept )))) Maybe you have to revisit to condemn it ))))

Accumulating debt during recessions is normal, it's NOT normal during Boom times. Thanks trump

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petalique

These people don't learn.


Isn’t it frustrating when some people continue to behave in things that are destructive to many many others. Many here can relate to that general concept. “These people” and those people, and ...


“And we suppose to pay for them when they catch some deadly disease.”


Reminds me of anti-vaxers. That’s clear cut when the parent refuses to vaccinate and taxpayers and the rest of society are hurt. Maybe trump will pass an EO so that little Charlie (whose genius parents refused to let him be vaccinated and he’s turning blue with whooping cough) doesn’t get medical care. Trump could be that cruel, but fortunately most Americans are willing to see some of their taxes go towards public health measures.

As for the other “these people” — no one yet understands some of the causes and vectors responsible for the outbreak of diseases and viruses. Political and social upheaval in many poor or developing countries doesn’t make it any easier to educate or dissuade people from eating certain foods.

Of course the United States and other able countries should step forward and offer appropriate aide and resources — even if some parsimonious, dim witted taxpayers don’t see why their government ought to.

[I wonder if IMpotus would eat bat wing if well done and served with melted cheese food and fries.]

edited for clarity

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margaritadina

''petalique

These people don't learn.


Isn’t it frustrating when some people continue to behave in things
that are destructive to many many others. Many here can relate to that
general concept. “These people” and those people, and ...


“And we suppose to pay for them when they catch some deadly disease.”

Reminds me of anti-vaxers. That’s clear cut when the parent refuses to vaccinate and taxpayers and the rest of society are hurt.

''

You are right it IS frustrating when other people have to pay with their health, lives, $$ for someone else's choices. Asia has to pay for the luxury of eating crap that they are eating, anti- vaxers should be banned from ''go fund me'' when their kids fall ill. Let Asia deal with it's bastards, and that will give us more funds to deal with our. Everybody happy.

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margaritadina

''

Kathy

Global health isn’t about China specifically. You need to read about it on your own instead of arguing with me. ''

In fact, I have, Kathy. 3 TRILLION dollars were pumped into helping Africa and some Asian countries to get on their feet since the 60s. And what? They are still where they were 60 years ago. Some more money, some money less won't make any difference. Trump is handling the virus emergency quite well, and that's what matters.

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petalique

Keep telling yourself that. No need to be concerned or read any more. The inept cheat can’t even apply bronzer, puts his toilet tissue on his foot and loses a gust challenge to his umbrella is in charge. He’ll fix things with a Sharpie.

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Kathy

Devastating news.

The end of the extended Lunar New Year holiday means China is theoretically returning to work. But with tens of millions still under lockdown and many more confined to work-from-home arrangements amid the coronavirus outbreak, life is a long way from returning to normal.

The number of new infections in Hubei province rose by 14,840 on Thursday as health officials broadened the criteria it uses to confirm cases. The spike comes as China’s ruling Communist Party tries to manage an outpouring of public anger over its handling of the emergency and is proposing measures to boost the sagging economy.

● The death toll from the coronavirus rose to roughly 1,360, nearly all of the fatalities in China, and total existing confirmed cases worldwide neared 53,000.

● World Health Organization expert Michael Ryan said in a news briefing that — in a good sign — the novel coronavirus’s behavior doesn’t seem to be as aggressive or accelerating outside of Hubei province.

● In a meeting with the leadership of the Community Party, Chinese President Xi Jinping said efforts would be made to minimize the impact of the outbreak on the economy.

● The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirmed a second case of coronavirus at a San Diego quarantine facility for Americans evacuated from China, bringing the total number of cases in the United States to 14.

● After several countries barred the MS Westerdam cruise ship, its 1,455 guests and the crew are headed toward Cambodia to disembark there.

8:45 PM: Hubei province reports 14,840 new confirmed cases and 242 deaths

China’s Hubei province, the epicenter of the outbreak, reported an uptick of 14,840 confirmed coronavirus cases Thursday as health officials expanded the type of cases that it includes in its count. The province also reported 242 new deaths.

China’s state-run Xinhua News Agency announced Thursday that national health authorities issued revised guidelines to consider “clinically diagnosed” coronavirus cases in the confirmed total. Chinese officials previously only counted cases confirmed by nucleic acid tests, which critics said were faulty and greatly underestimated the true magnitude of the epidemic.

For weeks, Chinese doctors and patients have complained about a lack of nucleic acid testing kits and their accuracy. The dramatic jump in cases in Hubei essentially confirms longtime suspicions that China was for weeks vastly undercounting cases of the virus.

Hubei’s total number of confirmed cases now stands at more than 48,000, with more than 1,300 deaths.


source WP

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petalique

Sounds like it is more contagious than SARS, but not as lethal (per individual).

I’ve been doing more reading.

Most foreign aid is as self serving as it is humanistic. All countries practice enlightened self interest, and the US and some of our allies also have a strong tradition of humanitarian compassion.

The money to China isn’t a “lot.” It is a good will gesture included with frank aid such as the medical supplies. We want China to let CDC and world health scientists “in” to investigate and help. The US has a lot of expertise to offer - epidemiological studies, genetics, and virology. It is important to have a global approach to learning about and stemming this particular virus as well as future viruses and pathogens. It can be, will be a win - win endeavor. In the past few decades many more tools, techniques and experience has illuminated a lot of previously dark corners in all sorts of areas.

I understand the visceral revulsion of those “wet markets.” So much of it seems cruel, Un-enlightened and nasty. I’m an omnivore, not superior to any other person or diner, but there definitely are some cultural practices and attitudes that wig me out.

Here are some interesting articles:

The Spreading Coronavirus and the Face-Mask Shortage - The Atlantic

This threat of shortages of basic medical tools extends well beyond masks. In a serious pandemic, the U.S. is not prepared to be isolated for long. Many of the CDC guidelines for use of respirators involve rationing and judicious use, even in hospitals. Supplies more potentially vital than masks, including antibiotics, antivirals, and saline, are also mostly produced internationally. Even many of the vitamins that fortify our highly processed, white-bread diets come from China. This level of dependence is not generally considered a matter of national security, but some believe it should be.

Among the proposed solutions is the idea that hospitals could be required to purchase vital medical devices and drugs from companies based in the U.S. (and whose supply chains could endure a global shutdown). Another is that a supply of products necessary for survival could, like the public water system, be managed in a centralized way—with government agencies even manufacturing these essential products.

Both of those options would substantively alter the state of global commerce, and might be feasible for only a handful of wealthier countries. Many places simply don’t have the resources or capacity to be self-sufficient, nor would such redundancy of production lines make sense. 🔸Given these realities, the pertinence of an orchestrated international response in times of health crisis becomes only more clear. The global medical community has the capacity to address extremely dangerous outbreaks. In isolation, most countries do not.🔸

continued :

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/01/viral-masks/605761/


And, this article below adds a new twist. Guess I’ll avoid public’s washrooms at rush hour — all that atomized virus.


South China Morning Post: Coronavirus in the pipes? How a Hong Kong policy change may have helped it spread faster


A Housing Department policy change has allowed tenants in government flats to alter the pipe design in their bathrooms since 2016, a problem which might have helped the faster spread of the deadly new coronavirus which led to an evacuation of a Tsing Yi…

Read in South China Morning Post: https://apple.news/AYNhHQSVLTyuLW5jXkBB1Gw

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margaritadina

''petalique Keep telling yourself that. No need to be concerned or read any more.''

Tell me how the cases of coronavirus are mishandles in the US. Real data please - what is not been done or what is done wrong.

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Kathy

https://apple.news/AdAEc-FqMQoGnDWlOKJjkVQ


It is more contagious but not as lethal. It can be detected with a lung scan per article. They have better diagnosis now so the numbers spiked. They think one case was spread through an air pipe in an apartment.


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catspa_zone9sunset14

Chinese presence and influence in Africa have increased rapidly and markedly in the face of the Trump administration's apparent disinterest in the continent (they are, after all, "(derogatory expletive) countries", per Trump) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/world/africa/africa-coronavirus-china.html, and lack of effective effort to maintain and strengthen ties there. If COVID-19 gets started in Africa, all hell really will break loose globally, as there will be few resources to stop it. This is why international readiness, aid, and response is required and the U.S. strategy of go-it-alone isolationism is a futile idea.

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margaritadina

''

catspa_zone9sunset14

If COVID-19 gets started in Africa, all hell really will break loose
globally, as there will be few resources to stop it. This is why
international readiness, aid, and response is required and the U.S.
strategy of go-it-alone isolationism is a futile idea.''

Isolationism? The US isn't getting away from been involved in the global epidemic response, the funds are cut back. Still enough money.

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Kathy

Trump needs 15.5 for Space Force. Why worry about earth when we will have Mars to pollute? Jk

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margaritadina

The US reduced it's CO2 emissions more than any other first world country in 2018 and 2019. That's about the pollution.

--------------------------

Today my BF told me that sulfur dioxide pollution over China is detectable from space. This is what I found via quick search.

''

  • Evidence suggests that crematoriums are running 24×7 and burning thousands of infected dead bodies in a day.
  • Data has suggested a massive amount of sulfur dioxide is being
    released into the air. Sulfur concentration is especially high around
    Wuhan and Chongquing, the cities most affected by the Wuhan coronavirus.
  • The massive release could be because of the crematoriums burning dead bodies en masse on the outskirts of the cities.

Evidence suggesting that the Chinese government is hiding the
actual severity of the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak is piling up. Every
estimate, whistleblower, and unconfirmed report suggest the actual
number of coronavirus casualties is much higher than what the official
data says.

Just last week exiled Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui claimed that the total coronavirus casualties are well over 50,000.

This number was his estimation based on the number of bodies China’s
crematoriums are burning every day. Data has surfaced recently to
suggest Wengui’s estimate may be correct.

Rising Sulfur Dioxide Levels Point to Overworked Crematoriums

A heatmap taken from Windy shows a tremendous amount of sulfur dioxide levels in air around mainland China.

Ideally, there could be several reasons behind the sudden spike.
Nuclear plants, garbage, and animal carcass burning or the industrial
areas could all be responsible.

But, the elevated levels of almost 1400 ug/m^3 could point towards
mass crematoriums running overtime in these areas. For context, 80
ug/m^3 level is usually considered dangerously high.

Next in line was Chongquing, a megacity in southwestern China, with
800 ug/m^3. Coincidentally, Chongquing has also been severely affected
by the coronavirus outbreak.

''

https://www.ccn.com/coronavirus-death-smog-is-china-burning-thousands-of-infected-bodies/

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petalique

^^^^ just conjecture. Besides, isn’t CNN too liberal?

Maybe it’s just holiday cooking of chicken, exotic animal species, bats and char siu.

And China hiding the facts? Why be tempted by a China-hiding-info conspiracy when there are plenty bona fide conspiracies and lies much closer to home? Then there’s the tons of real deal malfeasance like secret service paying beaucoup bucks to trump organization, intelligence shared with Russians, Eric Prince (Betsy DeVos’ brother), past and (ongoing) money laundering by IMpostus; shakedown/extortion of an ally at war for personal IMpostus gain). Lies are up to what number now?

Your false profit keeps enjoining his fans to focus on just “USA” — that’s all the proles need to focus on. FauxNews will broadcast all you need to know.

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

The link is to ccn, not cnn.

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petalique

Thanks, floral.

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Izzy Mn(4)

China has not liked to disclose things like this in the past. I am not surprised they are not being truthful.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

With regards to China's activity in Africa, say what? I thought Liberals were against colonialism in Africa? I thought the exploitation of 3rd world countries was a big bad thing. What you are seeing is China not caring about your feelings or worrying about your historical grievances. Kinda like "climate change/global warming/pollution" issues in which China and Russia simply laugh..

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margaritadina

''Jonnygun(zone 7) With regards to China's activity in Africa, say what? ''

I say, good luck to China that is very active in Africa for about two decades now - and liberals just waking up for Trump shaming.

Western countries spent <> 3 Trillion dollars on Africa since sixties - for nothing. Good luck, China.

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Kathy

Trump is spending 7.2 trillion for his wall in this year alone not 70 years.

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haydayhayday

Kathy:

"Trump is spending 7.2 trillion for his wall in this year alone not 70 years."

Funny.


Big numbers all start to sound alike at some point.


Hay


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margaritadina

''

Kathy

Trump is spending 7.2 trillion for his wall in this year alone not 70 years. ''

7.2 TRILLION? ??? Oh, Kathy, Kathy, Kathy ))))

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petalique

While IMpotus trump steers the US away from global involvement (that doesn’t benefit him personally), and while giving enormous tax breaks to the very rich, whines about the expense of foreign aid, his followers repeat his chant. Why spend money “over there” or in “sh*t hole” countries (his derogatory words) when we can stay focused just on the US?


The cost to the taxpayers for his many golfing getaways; his entire tribe of spawn and lackeys (with their spawn and plus ones) glomming onto his visit to the Queen of England; the 2000 troops sent to Saudi Arabia; and so on, are brushed aside.


Ignoring global involvement, trump has left a huge international vacuum that China and Russia have been quick to fill. In African countries, China is offering and building physical and technological infrastructure. Enlightened self interest and it will serve China in a less apparent way. Putin is increasing support to Syria’s Assad as Donald Trump abandons our Kurdish allies, and turns against the struggling decency Ukraine, in favor of Putin’s agenda and revisionist propaganda. Trumps cult fall into line.


The spheres of influence of both China and Russia are expanding, as that of the United States recedes under the kleptocratic direction of Mr. Trump and his team of self-serving grifters.


The guys in the MAGA hats at Honk’s bar bob their heads and agree that we (‘Mericans) have our own needs and why should we spend money to help a world away from us that we’ve had a lot to do with mucking up in the first place. The magats think that it’s a waste of resources (money) to send food, tents, medical supplies to “messy” places like Yemen, African nations, heck, even Puerto Rico. (Magats dont see those devastated by natural disasters as Americans.)

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

That ^^^ is ridiculous. China is simply colonizing Africa. There is no "uplifting" going on at all. Closed cities of chinese numbering in the millions...

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petalique

“ Big numbers all start to sound alike at some point.”


I guess, for those not paying attention. Tired of Impeached President* Chaos?

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petalique

Jonnygun(zone 7)

That ^^^ is ridiculous. China is simply colonizing Africa. There is no "uplifting" going on at all. Closed cities of chinese numbering in the millions...

——

^^^ Straw dog argument (putting false words into someone’s mouth, only to argue against them).


Who said, “uplifting”?

China is giving technological aid to some African countries, that, while ostensibly (maybe actually) helping those countries, is also serving China’s interests and expanding China’s sphere of influence and control.

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catspa_zone9sunset14

Good article here on recent Russian initiatives with respect to Africa: https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/25/russia-africa-development-soviet-union/. Russia and China both have been lurking around in Africa for decades, trying to promote connections and alliances -- lots of resources there -- and Trump's policy of reducing global engagement and his neglect of diplomacy (many ambassadorships left unfilled) has left them some wide openings.

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petalique

Thanks, catspa for the informative link.

Putin and Xi are pleased with our uneducated, uninformed, anti-American corrupt Impeached President*.

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Kathy

I couldn’t read the article because of the fire wall.

Putin is trying to lift sanctions on Blood diamonds to make them legal.

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dandyfopp

We got the fix right here.

If Jim would give Donnie a nice cut the next campaign email could offer up this miracle antidote for a $300 donation to the MAGA cause.

Its all gravy with taxpayer money!

Those folks worried about being prepared for other disasters up to the big one END TIMES- Jim has you covered there too. Big buckets of coffee sure to see you through the rapture, so good you could trade a packet for a car, no lie.

PTL!


VIDEO- https://twitter.com/NinjaEconomics/status/1228229792446574592


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margaritadina

''

Kathy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/trump-planning-to-divert-additional-72-billion-in-pentagon-funds-for-border-wall/2020/01/13/59080a3a-363d-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

''

''

Kathy

Trump is spending 7.2 trillion for his wall in this year alone not 70 years.

''

Kathy, do you understand the difference between ''7.2 trillion'' and ''72 billion'' ?

petalique

“ Big numbers all start to sound alike at some point.”

I guess, for those not paying attention. Tired of Impeached President* Chaos?

''

And it's you who are not paying attention. Hay referred to Kathy not understanding the difference between a trillion and a billion. There is a chaos, but it has nothing to with Trump ))))

What a mess )))


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Kathy

Oops, my bad. Whatever. The wall is a waste, imho. We need technology not a big wall taking people’s land to build it.

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petalique

10 ^12

vs

10 ^ 9

Through in Avogardro’s # and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

Nutella seeks its own level.

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petalique

China was not forthcoming with SARS, they’re likely not being straight now. Dictators are not known for openness and honesty.

-

The news this evening reported that one of the people evacuated from China to San Diego was mistakenly allowed to leave the hospital quarantine and go home. Oops. So sorry. Communication error. She was infected with Corvid and had to return to the hospital.

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petalique

Coronavirus latest updates: first confirmed case in Africa – as it happened

Africa has its first confirmed case of coronavirus after a person in Egypt tested positive for the disease, it has emerged


Ben QuinnFirst published on Thu 13 Feb 2020 18.51 EST


https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/14/coronavirus-latest-updates-wuhan-hubei-china-deaths-cruise-ship-sydney-cases-covid19-live-news

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foodonastump

Nutella seeks its own level.

Empty?

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petalique

Someone made a hair trigger nonsense statement,

(Hay* wrote) —You're so intent on bashing Trump that it's clouded your vision. That all you can see?

TDS?

There’s not much sense in attempting to respond logically to cult enmeshment hysteria.


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haydayhayday

"Someone made a hair trigger nonsense statement,"

Going for the Trifecta?

"There’s not much sense in attempting to respond logically to cult enmeshment hysteria."

No cult would ever let me join them.

I'm the disinterested one here.

I do, however, recognize TDS when I see it.

I see it.

You can't go three posts without managing to work Trump bashing into the post.

TDS.



Hay


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chipotle
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