Senate Coverup.

Kathy

A majority of Americans think Trump should be convicted and removed. 69% say witnesses should be allowed in the Senate. how can they conduct a trial without witnesses? It’s not a trial, it’s a coverup, that’s why.

This is going to empower Trump to commit even more crimes just as he did after the Mueller report was whitewashed.


Nadler,

Above all, a fair trial must include additional documents and relevant witnesses," he said. "The American people have common sense. They know that any trial that does not allow witnesses is not a trial. It is a cover-up.


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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Rather than bury the demos, Mitch would rather cover for Donald...


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lurker111

A majority of Americans think

That's where I quit reading.

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chipotle

71% of Democrats, 56% of independents and 40% of Republicans say Senate should call additional witnesses to testify.

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Toby

I almost hope they won't call witnesses because it will help us in the polls. Who besides the party faithful would vote for a Republican after the cover-up? Bolton could crucify Trump on the stand and the GOP still won't convict him, so witness testimony isn't going to remove him from office.

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Kathy

Even if a trial doesn't remove Trump he would be chastised and not emboldened. Dems are a majority in the US and the Senate is on trial as well as Trump imho. If they continue to coverup or conduct a fair trial it will go down in history and they will be judged.

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Toby

Trump will be embolden. If he's reelected, we'll see an emboldened Trump like we've never seen before. The GOP Senators have no idea what they're in for. They don't care about being judged. It's time that we understand that they have no morals, not a one of them. They only care about wealth. Wealth is their God. That is the GOP in a nutshell.

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Kathy

My opinion exactly


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Toby

I read on WaPo this morning that the GOP is planning a closed hearing for Bolton if they have to let him testify. "National security" is the excuse.

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dandyfopp

There is only one reason to refuse to hear witnesses and it is obvious.

This won't go away, it will fester if not dealt with and November will be a reckoning for the GOP.

Best hope Pootie can save your majority Mitch.



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Kathy

Imho, holding hearings in the middle of the night means they can spin the testimony for those who didn’t see it firsthand.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Mitch already publicly announced that the trial would not be fair -- he's coordinating with the White House.

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Kathy

Trump and the Republicans clearly want to make impeachment come and go as quietly as possible. They know that if the American public pays too much attention, if they’re forced to listen to the facts and the evidence against Donald Trump, it will become almost impossible for the Senate to acquit him. As we head into the trial, 51 percent of Americans already think Trump should be removed. Nearly 70 percent think additional witnesses should be called to testify to Trump’s behavior. Trump is losing the impeachment fight; McConnell’s goal is to declare Trump the winner before the loss becomes unavoidable.

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chisue

I am just a citizen, not GOP or Democrat. I want to see a fair trial, not the coverup the GOP majority in the Senate want, via a rush-rush, hurry-hurry, "we don't want nobody nobody sent" to testify. Trump was impeached on the facts that are only the tip of the iceberg.

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HU-885118952

Fair?

Chairman Schiff declined to concur with a Republican subpoena for documents relating to the DNC’s communications with the Ukrainian government.

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Kathy

Sekulow lies in his presentation. He is a real flub-up, imho. He said Trump couldn’t question witnesses, not true.

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chipotle



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Kathy

Geez, if even I can hear the lies what about the millions much more astute than I?

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HU-885118952


@LindseyGrahamSC

Quite frankly, having Adam Schiff lecture the Senate about fairness and due process is like listening to an arsonist talk about fire prevention.

899

3:06 PM - Jan 21, 2020

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Kathy

How can Cipllione defend the President when he is WH counsel working for the taxpayers? He isn’t Trump’s personal lawyer. He is supposed to counsel the President on the legality of his acts. He failed to do his job imho.

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chipotle

Liar, liar pants on fire Cipollone. That's why Trump likes him.







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Kathy

Republicans know their constituents are not about truth but about winning. Winning at any cost is a loss for all Americans.

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chipotle



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queenmargo

That pencil neck does not know the meaning of truth. LOL

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Kathy

Both Cipollone and Sekulow told blatant lies about the investigation. They accuse Schiff of lying with no evidence. There is evidence Trump has witnesses and they were questioned by the GOP. Voters will remember this sham in Nov 2020.

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queenmargo

Everyone loves a good mystery;))

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Kathy

A vote to acquit will be the biggest mistake the GOP will ever make. They will have unleashed a monster on the Democracy of the US. They will all grow to regret it. Short term win—-long term loss for Americans.

I’m wondering if Justice Roberts will have a say in these tactics.

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cattyles

Kathy, I already saw Roberts once with a look of “are you kidding? are you high” after Cipollone lied.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

I’m wondering if Justice Roberts will have a say in these tactics.

If the repubs keep making stuff up he might call for a retrial, nyuk

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Kathy

No documents from the WH means they are covering up Trump’s crime.

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Kathy

I really like Val Demings saying she has never seen so much effort of someone to hide documents that prove his innocence.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Right Kathy.......Trump yelling I'm innocent I tell ya and I have the documents to prove it, .............but you'll just have to take my word for it, yes your Honor, my word.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Val Demings is a rock star!

The truth always comes out. It will come out regardless of how much the republicans would like to cover it up. Right now they are playing a game of Beat the Clock. They want to suppress the truth until the election to help Trump get reelected. After that, all bets are off. So it's up to the democrats in congress and the media and the historians to make sure the truth comes out before November.

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Delilah66

I was unable to tune into any broadcasts yesterday and today and will also not be able to watch tomorrow. Any suggestions for catchups?

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ubro(2a)

@LindseyGrahamSC

Quite frankly, having Adam Schiff lecture the Senate about fairness and due process is like listening to an arsonist talk about fire prevention.

Lindsay? the one who said he won't be impartial? That Lindsay? He has no credibility on truth.

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zmith

Delilah, maybe try C-span. You can watch "live" or "from the beginning"

https://www.c-span.org/video/?468163-1/senate-impeachment-trial-day-2&live

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HU-885118952

Kathy

No documents from the WH means they are covering up Trump’s crime.

By that measure, you believe Obama was covering up Fast and Furious?


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cattyles

I hope everyone won’t let themselves be diverted by the same old tired tactics.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)


@SethAbramson

If you want to know how full-on INSANE these 53-47 votes opposing amendments are, imagine a prosecutor at a trial saying, "Your Honor, we move for the admission of {checks notes} EVIDENCE..." and then losing that motion, then asking again, losing again, asking again, losing again

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

By that measure, you believe Obama was covering up Fast and Furious?

"But Obama!"

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HU-885118952

Ronna McDaniel@GOPChairwoman

.@reaDonaldTrump leads on the world stage, Dems try to undermine him.

Sept: POTUS at the UN, Pelosi starts impeachment

Dec: POTUS at NATO, Dems hold hearings

Last week, POTUS signs deal with China; Dems celebrate impeachment

Today: POTUS at Davos, Dems keep up impeachment

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Kathy

Trump has to this day ignored the subpoena for documents. Obama turned them over after they were subpoenaed.

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HU-885118952

@Seth, two words; Harry Reid.

But yeah...expect a lot more tantrums from the Democrats.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Expecting evidence at a trial.

What a non-Republican concept.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

The House managers need to call this out again and again as the cameras are rolling. "We are now about to see the GOP once again deny the Senate and the People of the United States of America the ability to see evidence, something fundamental to any kind of trial whatsoever."

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HU-885118952

Uh uh, Kathy...


"

WASHINGTON — The White House said Tuesday night that it would refuse to allow its director of political strategy to testify Wednesday before a Republican-led House committee investigating whether the administration had illegally conducted political activity in the West Wing.

In a letter to Representative Darrell Issa, the chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, the president’s top lawyer said that as a member of the executive branch the political director, David Simas, had immunity from being compelled to testify before Congress.

Mr. Issa’s committee subpoenaed Mr. Simas last week, contending that the White House should not have opened the Office of Political Strategy and Outreach this year. Mr. Issa told the White House in May that “the American people have a right to know if their tax dollars are being spent to support congressional campaigns during the 2014 midterm elections in violation of federal law.”

In a statement on Tuesday, Mr. Issa said that the decision to prevent Mr. Simas from testifying was “another attack on our nation’s Constitution” and that he planned to examine whether the president intended to assert executive privilege."

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/us/politics/obama-official-wont-testify-to-congress.html

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Kathy

No documents no witnesses and they call it a trial? Justice needs to step in.

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Kathy

HU952

FYI


Trump is wrong that Obama White House refused to turn over documents in congressional probes


https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/mar/08/donald-trump/did-obamas-white-house-refuse-turn-over-any-docume/


Washington (CNN)House Oversight Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz said Friday that the Obama administration has turned over documents related to the "Fast and Furious" operation.

The House voted in 2012 to hold then-Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt for refusing to turn over documents tied to the botched gun-running sting -- a discredited operation that had become a sharp point of contention between Democrats and Republicans.





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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Chief Justice Roberts' silence is complicity.

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HU-885118952

THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Chief Justice Roberts' silence is complicity.

Who had this on their Bingo card?

I did!

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Sekulow started to do the "where is the whistleblower" thing, but it felt like even he knows that's the worst possible argument. He just threw it out there to make the President happy and then sat back down, I can only hope in horrible shame.

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HU-885118952

Kathy, you have a different event there. Close no cigar.

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HU-885118952

Sekulow is owning Schiff. I hope he brings up the fake whistle blower many, many, many more times, and demands Schiff testify about his cabal.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Trump and McConnell are proving Obstruction of Congress (the second impeachment article) by their conduct in the Senate trial proceedings through their efforts to obstruct all evidence being admitted at trial.

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HU-885118952

Exercising powers of office is not obstruction, no matter how many times the Democrats repeat the lie.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Adam Schiff:
"You don't get credit for transparency when you get caught"
"The only corruption that Trump cared about, was what he could bring about"

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HU-885118952

Schiff is high. That phone call was void of any crime. Now, Biden's explicit threat was!

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

LOL.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

McConnell wants everyone to fall asleep and dream there was a fair trial.

"McConnell’s rules only permit senators to drink water or milk during Senate trial"

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Kathy

HU 952, start your own thread on Obama if you are interested in discussing FF. I’m not.

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Kathy

I thought Sekulow sounded elementary. Repeated lies and no evidence. Schiff is miles beyond him in intelligence and style.

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Nana H

"I really like Val Demings saying she has never seen so much effort of someone to hide documents that prove his innocence."

Bears repeating.

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Kathy

She is not a lawyer but she speaks succinctly and very convincingly. She is the only one without a law degree but I am sure she knows a lot because of her previous vocation anyway.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

LOL.

Remember when Obama told 16,241 lies?
Me neither.

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HU-885118952

Schiff- "We have many unanswered questions that need to be investigated". OMG, then why didn't you do your job and investigate?

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HU-885118952

Every one of Schumer's amendments voted down 53-47. I hope Mitch still has his finger on the kill switch.

I think it is very telling that every Republican, moderates and all, are voting Schumer down. Schumer was relying on those moderates and he's not getting them.

The media was leaking stories that 4-5 Republicans would defect, and as usual; fake news to prop up the Democrats' narrative.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Know what kind of people want all evidence to be presented?
Innocent people.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

It’s not that any of the Senate GOP think he’s innocent,
it’s that they just don’t care that he’s guilty.

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Nana H

952, those moderates got McConnell to change the rules before they embarrassed him on the floor. These motions were not expected to go anywhere. The rubber will not the road on witnesses .

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HU-885118952

McConnell had that concession chambered.

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Nana H

By that you mean that they cornered him at lunch, an hour before the official start, and told him they could not stand by the resolution....... So you better change it Mitch

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Kathy

The so called moderates have it figured out they can vote for documents later in the trial, because no one will be able to ask questions. Then they can appear sanctimonious to their constituents.

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Kathy

Thoughts from an ex Republican.


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how2girl

Dems are calmly & methodically building the case that the Senate will be guilty of a #coverup if it “enables” Trump to continue to conceal 71 documents & block 12 witnesses from testifying. Conclusion: They have something to hide.


McConnell is doing his best to undermine proceedings. Controlling the broadcast timing reeks of desperation - so the believers can continue to receive their biased information from the cult TV networks. Ultimately the truth will out. If he’s innocent the trial would be held in the open, during daylight hours, for all to see. Nope, nothing to see here (s.)

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Kathy

I cannot understand how Trump’s lawyers aren’t held to contempt of court with their lies. It’s because the GOP are traitors to our Constitution.

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elvis

What lies, Kathy? Please be specific.

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Kathy

Elvis, They lied Trump couldn’t have or question witnesses during the judicial hearings.

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Kathy

Love Nadler. Cipollone acts outraged the GOP is accused of a coverup. What a joke.

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Kathy

OMB just turned over 227 Pages of documents ordered by court before midnight. They are still holding back 120 pages.

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Chi

This is a huge mistake on the Senate's part. The vast majority of Americans want to see a fair trial with testimony.

New poll results today show that even 71% of Republicans think that witnesses with firsthand knowledge should be allowed to testify. That goes up to 93% of Dems and 81% of Independents.

https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-think-witnesses-testify-trump-impeachment-mcconnell-1483264

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lurker111

The vast majority of Americans want to see a fair trial with testimony.

Nonsense. We have laws and Americans insist that the crats follow the laws. Who care what a silly little propaganda poll claims? The senate will base everything on what was presented, as the law requires.

I watched nadler and schiff commit perjury many times, yesterday.

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how2girl

...heavily redacted documents turned over 2 minutes before the deadline, confirming a flurry of emails on the day of THAT phonecall.


This is interesting...supporting documents from the US Gov’t Accountability Office (obtained under FOI) concluding there WAS a violation when Trump withheld funds from Ukraine.


It’s a 9 page PDF, will need to read past P1 below:

https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf



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Kathy

How2 girl. Did the GAO and the OMB both turn over documents at the last minute?

The Senate has blocked every amendment for the trial so there were no concessions to the Dems. So no witnesses and no documents will be allowed at this point by McConnell and the GOP Senate?

Trump gives the GOP his orders. He wants to be acquitted.

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cattyles

Thanks for posting that how2girl.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

GOP senators, as much as we might wish it otherwise (for their sake) are smart folks who do know (at least broadly speaking) how bad this is. They know the president is a criminal. Please don't think otherwise and assume their ignorance.

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how2girl

Kathy,

No, not turned over. They were obtained & released by American Oversight, under FOI.

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Kathy

I’m hearing the documents from the OMB, were heavily redacted. The GAO show wrongdoing by Trump.

Keeping in mind the OMB is a branch of the executive while the GAO is a non-partisan oversight group.

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batyabeth

Midnight trials, no witnesses, no evidence...........hmmmmm, Joe McCarthy must be so pleased.

This sounds like that trial of the Russian dissident woman who was running against Putin, a sham trial with sham evidence and a sham finding so she would be unable to speak, and the press couldn't report her views either. But gosh I wonder where the similarity started, who had the brilliant idea, "lets run a Soviet style "trial" at midnight with no witnesses and no evidence"?

What could go wrong? (she says with her head in her hands)



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Kathy

McCarthy, Roy Cohn, Trump MAGA.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

How quickly the American Shining Light was extinguished.

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Kathy

It shows you what happens when we get complacent.

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Kathy

Good read, might be good thread. Where we are headed. It is depressing.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/modern-authoritarianism-conclusion

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Or distracted by IMPOTUS' Outrage Du Jour.

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dandyfopp

What the GOP allows Trump to get away with becomes the standard for future presidents.

We had a good run.


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Izzy Mn(4)

No witnesses allowed. Is this really true. I am frightened that is ok with the Republicans. This does not sound like the US that I am familiar with. This sounds more and more like Russia everyday. I guess Putin is doing a good job of running our country the way he wants. Just frightening.

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batyabeth

yes apparently it's true. It's terrifying

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Kathy

Trump admitted dems have no material because he has it all.

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Iris GW

It will be in the history books (probably not in public schools in TX but you know what I mean).

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Kathy

Hu886. That is a perfect analogy. A show trial. I have been reading Mitch doesn’t want witnesses. He wants a quick end to this.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

How many have sold their souls to defend and protect this malignant narcissist?

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Iris GW

No worries, their names will all be on record of how they voted, what they said and what they didn't say. Fodder for their opponent in a future re-election campaign.

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Kathy

Schiff’ s opening is so apropos and eloquent. It will go down as one of his finest moments imho.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Evidence will continue to come out.

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paprikash

Schiff is about as eloquent as a monkey. I’m done with the stupid, repetitious, partisan bull, aka the democrats opening arguments, for today.

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HU-699631886

you're acting like you're scared of Schiff. He's just a little too effective isn't he.

ETA: The comments I was referring to have now disappeared.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

stupid, repetitious, partisan bull

Pretty much Trump's opinion of the U.S. Constitution.

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Kathy

Schiff is impressive. American’s are listening. His motive Is to repeat for those who can’t tune in at midnight.

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Iris GW

I’m done with the stupid, repetitious, partisan bull, aka the democrats opening arguments, for today.

Don't worry, the lying counsel for Trump will be back soon.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Schiff is impressive.

He was an Assistant United States Attorney -- he knows what he's doing.

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Kathy

It’s telling when there is no defense. The defense attacks the prosecutors.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The Gateway Pundit is a name I recognize from posts on Hot Topics -- easily rebutted because of GP's obvious fabrications.

*

A brief portion of the Snopes entry:

On Sept. 29, 2019, the right-leaning website The Gateway Pundit posted a story headlined, “EXPLOSIVE REPORT: Rep. Adam Schiff Linked to Prominent Ukrainian Arms Dealer!” The purported “arms dealer” in the story is Igor Pasternak, who is neither a prominent arms dealer nor a Ukrainian.

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Kathy

Ukraine is fighting for a free and fair Democracy on the border of Russian aggression. Trump just tried to compromise Zelensky. That may be worse than his bribery to investigate Biden.

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Izzy Mn(4)

What's the source for the Taste of Ukraine Reception? Why no link?

Oh, I found it. The Son's of Liberty Media. Fake News propaganda site.

https://sonsoflibertymedia.com/bombshell-nancy-pelosi-adam-schiff-connected-to-ukrainian-arms-dealer-igor-pasternak/


Surprise, the post I was referring to has disappeared.

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HU-699631886

I watched a little of it last night on Fox and it was during the Ingraham hour.

I noticed when she didn't like what was being discussed, she jumped in and pretended to make it clearer. But what she was really doing was changing the info they just heard . Overrode it with the Fox Spin.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

I was channel surfing and noticed Ingrahamramos doing that too 886

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Nana H

Surprised we didn't hear " Laura said....." here.

Coverage of the trial wth running live commentary by pundits is what is. Deliberate manipulation of the facts and it works.

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Lukki Irish

McTurtle might be able to shove this cover up under the rug, but I would not be surprised and am even hopeful that Nancy Pelosi will decide to start a new impeachment process for a whole new set of offenses....she has so many to choose from. At least that way the corruption and the obstruction to cover it up will stay front and center in voters faces until November.

McTurtle and Graham need to go!!

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Nana H

I seriously doubt she will do that at this point. However, I think she will brilliantly parlay the refusal of witnesses ( should it come to that ) into a huge political win going into 2020.

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queenmargo

Believe me, the average person who does not live for this stuff on a daily basis will be so sick of this whole thing very very soon. My bet is they will turn on their TV and curse this impeachment, if for no other reason then it is upsetting their TV viewing lol.

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maddie260

When all is said and done, Wash Po and NYT will still be the papers of record for this time; fox news all be remembered as yellow journalism. Republicans will go down in history as cowards who enabled a sick man as potus. I'm going with Wash Po's and NYT's agreements that this is a Republican cover up.

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dandyfopp

Latest from Pew Research

JANUARY 22, 2020

By a Narrow Margin, Americans Say Senate Trial Should Result in Trump’s Removal

Majority says Trump has definitely or probably done things that are illegal


https://www.people-press.org/2020/01/22/by-a-narrow-margin-americans-say-senate-trial-should-result-in-trumps-removal/

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Nana H

Very interesting article was a bit surprised about younger Republican given the impression I have gotten here from Trump supporters.

"By comparison, 26% of Republicans ages 18 to 29 and 16% of those 30 to
49 say the outcome of the Senate trial should result in Trump’s removal
from office. There are no age differences in these views among
Democrats: Roughly 85% of those in all age groups say the outcome of the
Senate trial should be Trump’s removal."

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queenmargo

Nana- if YOU had not told us that you would make the comment "whatever" when we brought up predictions, I would not have made the comment. LOL, don't you realize that?

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Nana H

Not what I was referring to.....but whatever

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queenmargo

OK, whatever it is;)

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dandyfopp

Very interesting article was a bit surprised about younger Republican given the impression I have gotten here from Trump supporters.

And this Nana

Clear majorities of both black (82%) and Hispanic (66%) Americans say the Senate trial should result in Trump’s removal, while 58% of white Americans say the Senate should not remove Trump.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I also noted in Dandy's source (PEW Research) this bit of info:

"There is a stark difference in these views by education, particularly among white Americans. Nearly two-thirds of white Americans without a college degree (64%) say Trump should remain in office following the Senate trial. But the balance of opinion is reversed among white Americans with a college degree or more education: 53% say the outcome of the Senate trial should be that Trump is removed from office."

----------------------------

I haven't read this long thread completely, so I don't know if the CNN poll published today has been mentioned. If not, here are some interesting findings that parallel the PEW Research findings above:

-------------------

"A slender majority of Americans in a new CNN poll said the Senate should vote to convict President Donald Trump and remove him from office.

Fifty-one percent of Americans — a majority within the poll's margin of error — said the Senate should vote to remove Trump, while 45% said the Senate should vote to acquit him.

CNN's poll, which was conducted Thursday to Sunday by SSRS and interviewed 1,156 adults by phone with a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points, also found that 58% of Americans believed the president abused his power and 57% believed he obstructed the inquiry by Congress into the matter."


https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-eve-trumps-impeachment-trial-001816243.html

------------------------------

Kate

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ubro(2a)

Schiff is high. That phone call was void of any crime. Now, Biden's explicit threat was!

Again, you don't need a crime.

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Lukki Irish

Nana, I’ve actually heard it mentioned a couple of times by some of the media. I know that doesn’t mean much but then again, lawyers at the table at least confirmed there are no laws to prevent it. I thought it was an interesting idea.

Make no mistake, McTurtle is working the trial the way he is so he can eventually move to dismiss the charges. He’s just as evil as frumpy is, if not more....his wife is just like him too.

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Nana H

One heard it too but I think Pelosi is too smart to do that as the election approaches.

BTW this O' Grady gal loves your handle

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Clear majorities of both black (82%) and Hispanic (66%) Americans say the Senate trial should result in Trump’s removal

But Blacks and Latinos are supporting Trump in numbers greater than ever!

It has to be true because I read that right here on Hot Topics.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

But Blacks and Latinos are supporting Trump in numbers greater than ever!

Tis' True, supporting his removal from office.

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cattyles

Nancy, I remember when all sides and political parties we’re mostly about posting facts.

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Kathy

We live in a world where pundits are taken seriously. Many can not distinguish between them and the facts.

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lurker111

We've all seen enough of the nuthouse crats. No one listens to them. It is a crime to lie to the senate. The crats are under oath.

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socks(10a)

I would love to know what’s going on in Roberts’ head.

Schiff was phenomenal!

Maybe anyone who sleeps, leaves or does puzzles should be excluded from the vote. I hope everyone listens carefully to the gop presentation in spite of possible/probable lies.

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Izzy Mn(4)

If they leave the floor then they broke their oath and should not be allowed to vote.

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zmith

Lurker: "The crats are under oath."

Funny, I thought everyone took an oath, not just the Democrats.

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Kitchenwitch111

stupid, repetitious, partisan bull

Pretty much Trump's opinion of the U.S. Constitution.

Trump also thinks the US Constitution is a foreign language!

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Kathy

The Republicans are doing pretzel turns spinning this story into a valid investigation by Trump. It’s a bitter pill to swallow to realize not only Trump but the AG and SOS are covering for crimes the President committed.

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lurker111

Funny, I thought everyone took an oath, not just the Democrats.

Yes, and the crats have committed perjury.

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Kathy

The Rep lawyers are lying about facts. The facts are there but the pubs don’t want to see them. They cry no new evidence but they vote against admitting new evidence.😬

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lurker111

You have to "want" to see the facts. That explains it.

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haydayhayday

From another thread:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5855971/could-we-have-a-chat-about-fnm-please#n=44



kathy:

"I’m fine with whatever you do Maddie. You are more than kind with your effort to please. I just hide the ones I don’t want to see and it works for me."


Would you mind sharing with us how you "hide the ones I don’t want to see"

Not demonstrate it on this post, but share just how you do it?

Thanks.

Hay


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Kathy

Hay, from what I understand you can hide comments you don’t want to see by clicking the don’t like it. it removes it from my view but others can still see it.

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cattyles

Click the flag, click “don’t like it”, click submit.

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queenmargo

Some are experts on this stuff lol lol

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haydayhayday

Margo's just-now post disappeared.

How did you make that happen?

Hay

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queenmargo

LOL- I have to laugh at this stuff

Usually takes 2 to tango

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Kathy

Hay what comment are you talking about? I still see it.

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haydayhayday

"Hay what comment are you talking about? I still see it."


The one that was right right after my initial question. Not the one about tango.

Tell me what you say you see.

Please

Hay

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Kathy

After your initial question I answered you.

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queenmargo

It's gone Hay, as I noticed my avatar was no longer in line on the front page

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haydayhayday

"After your initial question I answered you."

I know. And then Margo made a comment. I turn around and it's gone.

In the blink of an eye.

Kind of hard to have a conversation when posts go missing, isn't it.?

Hay

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queenmargo

Yup. POOF

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haydayhayday


"Kind of hard to have a conversation when posts go missing, isn't it.?"

Do you have an answer or comment about that question?

Thanks.

Hay

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haydayhayday

Now, Margo's comment is back!


"Some are experts on this stuff lol lol"

Strange world we live in.

Hay

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queenmargo

Strange = obvious.

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haydayhayday

How did it disappear and suddenly reappear?

Hay


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Kathy

Hay

People who have access to two computers or devices can flag their own comments with another device. Then they can claim someone else flagged them. I think too many are playing head games on HTs. They are not interested in serious discussions as we see from so many not able to concentrate on the impeachment hearings. They want sound bites and entertainment.

yes, it does make conversations hard to follow.

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queenmargo

Kathy if you are inferring that I flagged my own comment, you are wrong.

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haydayhayday

"People who have access to two computers or devices can flag their own comments with another device. "

If something like that happened... Margo flagged her own comment... somehow...how, then did it just as quickly return?

"yes, it does make conversations hard to follow."

For the record, I agree.
Which is why I don't flag.

Never have.

Never expect to unless it gets really, really necessary. Hasn't happened yet.

I don't like someone deciding for me what I should see. I extend the same courtesy to all of you.


Hay


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Kathy

Margo it didn’t necessarily mean you. Anyone can click I don’t like it and undo the click later. That is the option. Gameplayers. .

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

I just clicked on the flag for the first time, never knew it offered choices.

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haydayhayday

"Margo it didn’t necessarily mean you. Anyone can click I don’t like it and undo the click later. That is the option. Gameplayers."


That can't explain why margo's post would disapprear FOR ME and then reappear.

Can I flag your posts as 'spam" or "abusive" and then unflag them?

Hay

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haydayhayday

vgkg;


I just clicked on the flag for the first time, never knew it offered choices."

Good for you for never ever using it!

I can remember a conversation from a while back where people were pretty open about their flagging. I was very much surprised at

A) How many people did it.

B) Didn't hide that fact.

C) And that they were from "both" sides around here. "conservatives", "progressives" and everything in between.

I happen to think it's very much an "Abuse of Power" as it's generally used.

Power corrupts.

Thanks for trying to help me understand it.

I'm outta here for a while.


Hasta La Vista!


Hay


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Joaniepoanie

Izzy Mn(4)

If they leave the floor then they broke their oath and should not be allowed to vote.

******

How are a group of R senators allowed to leave the floor? Why can’t/didn’t Roberts hold them in contempt?

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Kathy

I don’t know Hay. I just know what I do. You can click I don’t like my post and then I click it as far as I know. I don’t know how things happen. I just post and if someone wants to flag it go ahead. I’m not really into keeping track of what others do. Some are more interested in that than me. I am responsible for me and I am not here to play games. That’s all I can say.

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Kathy

The Reps just don’t want to hear evidence. McConnell has only allowed water or milk on the floor. No coffee. That alone is ridiculous and will make people leave for a while.

I also think they leave to confer, even if it’s in the restrooms.

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Joaniepoanie

No coffee allowed? The only liquid not allowed should be alcohol. McConnell is so transparent—-does he really think he’s fooling anyone with all his nonsense?

And I would think they couldn't just get up and leave en masse. Guess we’ll see if Dems do it when R’s have the floor.

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Kathy

Who drinks milk? It puts you to sleep. They should have to sign out for breaks. Then we would see who is abusing the breaks.

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Nana H

I think some of those late afternoon and nighttime breaks are for a swig and I don't mean milk, water or coffee.

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Kathy

I agree listening for hours can be tiring but McConnell didn’t make it any easier, that’s for sure. The GOP claims it is repetitive and yet they keep voting down new evidence. They are counting the minutes to dismissal. It is a major coverup.

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Nana H

At this point I'm thinking that its ( hee hee... ) smarter for the Republicans to dismiss than go to a vote on witnesses.

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Joaniepoanie

Repubs are deservedly backed into a corner for protecting Trump. McConnell is just treading water. No way can they “win” here.

No witnesses/documents/dismissal = a coverup.

Witnesses/documents proving irrefutable guilt but they all vote to acquit = blatant partisan corruption.

Either way—-the GOP has sunk its own ship.

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queenmargo

It is a major coverup.

No witnesses/documents/dismissal = a coverup.

Cover up- left wing propaganda network buzz word of the trial, they are preparing .....

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Kathy

A trial with no witnesses or documents is called what? A coverup. It’s not a trial that’s for sure.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

GOP Defense:

everyone in America who knows about the Ukraine scandal is lying except the guy who's told 16,000 lies as president.


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lurker111

This isn't fantasy land at the nuthouse. The crats are going to need strong evidence that proves their case beyond any reasonable doubt. They have none. This will be thrown out as an unconstitutional attack on America.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

It's not a criminal trial.

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Izzy Mn(4)

If you or I were subpoenaed for a trial your boss was involved in and you refused to come to court what would happen? What would happen in the "real world" if subpoenaed but we're told by our boss you don't have to testify and pressure, not blatant, but pressure none the less, to not testify. What would happen in the real world?


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Kathy

There is no evidence Ukraine meddled in the 2016 elections. Only Trump and his conspiracy theorists want to blame Ukraine to please Putin who has been proven to interfere.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Trump brags about obstructing Congress, which is the second article of impeachment:


“We’re doing very well. I got to watch enough. I thought our team did a very good job. But, honestly, we have all the material; they don’t have the material.”

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chipotle

Someone should play that on a loop at the trial.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Russia has been pushing that piece of propaganda about Ukraine since 2016, I believe, to muddy the waters and misdirect scrutiny.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

A confession like that would end any trial.

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Kathy

Trump said it was Putin who told him it was Ukraine. Talk about Gullible!

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

But there were those love letters!

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lurker111

Confession? Some people hear "material" and think they heard "incriminating evidence"? How sad.

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Kathy

Documents the WH is holding and won’t release are material to the case.

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Joaniepoanie

“I’m innocent, I’m innocent——but don’t let any witnesses testify on my behalf and don’t turn the documents over which prove my innocence.”

Makes perfect sense, huh?....unless...... you have no witnesses who can truthfully testify on your behalf and there aren’t any documents that prove your innocence.

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margaritadina

''

chipotle

71% of Democrats, 56% of independents and 40% of Republicans say Senate should call additional witnesses to testify.
''

No one asked me. So, where an I in your layout? ))))

Actually, I would like to have Joe on a stand to testify under oath. And Hunter.



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Kathy

Biden would blow away their lies and they know it. They will never call him.

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HU-885118952

Malarkey!

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paprikash
  • Opinions are not evidence. Not necessary to prove one’s innocence. Prove guilt without hearsay, without opinion, without guessing what our POTUS was thinking, without relying on disgruntled people with axes to grind or political partisans, without making up the substance of phone calls —prove it! And, if we are going to impeach a POTUS, make sure it’s a high crime and misdemeanor not a political tantrum by either political party just because they are unhappy that their side didn’t win the presidency.
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HU-885118952

Actually, I would like to have Joe on a stand to testify under oath. And Hunter.

Actually, we should get the terrorists in GITMO, fly them to The Swamp, sit them in those awful chairs, give them a glass of milk, and to get them to talk by forcing them to listen to Schiff, Nadler and the other Democrat managers in the Senate trial. They will beg for mercy, and give it up.

Although, it might be condemned by The Hague.

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Kathy

The proof has been spelled out, shown and testified to by witnesses. The only thing they don’t have is a confession.

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HU-885118952

Prove guilt without hearsay, without opinion, without guessing
what our POTUS was thinking, without relying on disgruntled people with
axes to grind or political partisans,

The Democrats would have us be in the dark about who in this equation is to be treated fairly. It's not whomever Trump fired. It's the accused.

It's Trump.

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paprikash

Opinions and hearsay is not proof

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Kathy

Listen to the evidence. You are behind the curve with disinformation.

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HU-885118952

paprikash

Opinions and hearsay is not proof

Rhetoric and brow beating aren't either.

What the Dems lack in facts they make up for with narrative.

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Kathy

The WH has no defense. The lawyers are all sham and no substance. They can’t even vouch for Trump’s character because it is so bad.

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margaritadina

''

Kathy

Biden would blow away their lies and they know it. They will never call him. ''

And that's exactly why Dems don't want him to testify )))

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Kathy

Biden is not relevant. That is just a dog and pony show to divert. Trump was not concerned with an investigation into corruption. He only wanted Zelensky to SAY he was conducting an investigation. He knew there was no corruption.

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paprikash

There goes that mind reading again

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Kathy

No pap that is a fact.

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paprikash

He knew there was no corruption. How do you know that?

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cattyles

You’d know the answer if you read real news and listened to the evidence. It’s fine if you don’t want to know but that’s not a factual basis for defending trump.

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Kathy

If he thought there was corruption he would have had the FBI on it. He only wanted the perception of corruption.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

It's not Democrats keeping our rightward marching comrades in the dark...


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Kathy

Schiff spelled it out. Trump will do what is good for Trump. You cannot count on him. He chose Giuliani over the FBI. He did what was good for him. His own interests will always come first.

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elvis

Kathy

The proof has been spelled out, shown and testified to by witnesses.

Only in dreamland. I'm beyond being surprised by that mindset. It's creepy. Carry on, though.

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Kathy

Elvis, What have you heard that isn't truth?

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lurker111

Schiff just contradicted the whole impeachment and exposed the treachery. He isn't aware of what he just did. What a moron. This is what happens when you try to embellish a story. You get lost in the lies and don't realize that your story doesn't add up.

Goodnight. :^)

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Kathy

One thing is for sure. Schiff is no moron.

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Kathy

History will be the judge.


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lurker111

One thing is for sure. Schiff is no moron.

lol, You are entitled to your opinion. I'm going to contact the republican senators today. No one caught what he said because no one was listening to the moron. Read your meme for more evidence. I'm sorry to tell that moron that his paranoid delusions are not constitutional reasons for impeaching a president.

History will be the judge.

No, the senate will be the judge.

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lurker111

The WH has no defense.

The crats don't have a case.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)


Maybe not the last one...

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Kathy

The Senate is on trial too. History is judging them too. Don’t kid yourself. A party that has only 4 Senators who MIGHT break from the pact isn’t a party, it’s a cult.

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olliesmom

How can anyone believe Schiffty? I heard Schiffty say "The Senate hasn't called the Dems on any lies, and why is that?" What?1?1? The man is such a liar. I have heard a number of times the Senate call him out on his lies.

https://thegreggjarrett.com/rep-jim-jordan-delivers-knockout-blow-to-schiffs-reputation/?jwsource=cl

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Kathy

If anyone can believe the man who told 16,000 lies they obviously have no idea what is a lie and what is the truth.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

What are the lies Rep. Schiff has told, please?

Is it the one about President Trump wanting Ukraine's president to announce an investigation of the Bidens? The one about the 'perfect' phone call?

Or the one about the president obstructing Congress?

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lurker111

Jim Jordan has a list. Feel free to look it up. 12 outright lies the last time I checked.

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Del Phinium

Kathy

"A party that has only 4 Senators who MIGHT break from the pact isn’t a party, it’s a cult."

Interesting thought, Kathy.

Here's another one for you:

What would you call a party where only 3 Democrats out of 232 (in the House of Representatives) voted against this impeachment? Are the Democrats in the House "a cult" too?

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lurker111

They seem to fit her description. Maybe not advanced enough to be a cult. Tribal might be a better word.

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Kathy

Dems don’t vote in a pact because they are being threatened and controlled by the President. There will come a day though, I believe, because of the extreme partisanship that we will have a Dem President and Congress and the shoe will be on the other foot. It’s time for everyone in Congress to vote their conscience.

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Kathy

tribal is a more neutral word but it fits too.

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Iris GW

What would you call a party where only 3 Democrats out of 232 (in the House of Representatives) voted against this impeachment?

People who see this president and his behavior for the train wreck it is? Those are 229 people who put their next election on the line and voted for impeachment anyway.

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lurker111

It’s time for everyone in Congress to vote their conscience.

That wouldn't be constitutional. They have to vote on the no evidence and no crime.

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Iris GW

They should vote on the evidence, I agree.

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Kathy

There is no exculpatory evidence so they will attack the prosecutors.

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Nana H

I wonder if the " defense" will introduce new evidence that supports Trump's "innocence". That should blow the top right off the witness and documents resolution.

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Kathy

They brought up FISA as one example of wrong doing. They tried to push Zelensky saying the call was fine but that was disproved by their govt contacting US after the call asking where was the aid? We also know Trump was withholding the aid for a long time knowing Ukraine was under Russia’s thumb. Never did Trump say he was concerned about Ukraine corruption. He was always only concerned about the Bidens being trashed in the media by Zelensky.

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lurker111

You wish.

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ubro(2a)

That wouldn't be constitutional. They have to vote on the no evidence and no crime.

Again, no evidence because of refusal to release relevant documents does not mean no crime, obstruction itself can be a reason for removal.

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elvis

^^^You obviously didn't listen to Dershowitz's presentation. If you're going to opine about American politics, do it right.

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Joaniepoanie

Only Trumpers would listen or believe Dershowitz. He’s become a laughingstock along with Giuliani. Starr already was one.

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ubro(2a)

Dershowitz wasn't believable, neither are any of Trump's lawyers because they cannot defend him with testimony or factual documents. When both those are presented then maybe their opinion would mean something

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Kathy

Dershowitz claimed he thought statutory rape shouldn’t be a crime. Did Epstein convince him of that? What a jerk!

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paprikash

Somehow I kind of believe - no, know - Dershowitz et al are a great deal more knowledgeable than any of us posting here. The President’s attorneys are doing a great job. It may not be what the dems want to hear but it is factual and legal.

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Kathy

What was factual? They gave a history of previous impeachments then went on to say why it doesn’t apply now. They changed their minds since then. Or are they just defending their previous and current lies? It was more about taking up time talking about nothing pertinent to Trump.

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Nana H

Might be more knowledgeable but that doesn't make him right. Many equally as knowledgeable lawyers disagree.

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ubro(2a)

Dershowitz thinks its A Okay for a leader to ask a foreign power to interfere in elections. No matter what country you are from that is a scary thought.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Dershowitz et al are a great deal more knowledgeable than any of us posting here.

More knowlegable alright, on how to twist the facts and the law to make the guilty seem innocent, a good trick on how to fool people, some people.

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Kathy

Lev Parnas has asked a judge for permission to attend the Senate trial. Schumer has given him tickets.

edited

“Parnas can attend Trump's impeachment trial, but judge won't let him take off ankle monitor”

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Nana H

If true Schumer is a jerk.

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Kathy

I think desperate times call for desperate measures. It might make some Republicans think about their oath.

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queenmargo

Well, we know the Dems ARE desperate.

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momofdoxies

Nana H

If true Schumer is a jerk.

Multiple sources are reporting that Schummers' office did provide the tickets.

(Edited to correct spelling)

Link

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Nana H

Like I said, if he did he's a jerk.

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paprikash

Well, that’s a given

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lurker111

Dershowitz thinks its A Okay for a leader to ask a foreign power to interfere in elections.

More knowlegable alright, on how to twist the facts and the law to make
the guilty seem innocent, a good trick on how to fool people, some
people.

He is a democrat.

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Kathy

Dershowitz claims to be Independent . He is Trump’s lawyer. He says whatever will work for him.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

What does that matter? He works twisting the law and facts for trump today.

Besides lurker, you think all demos lie (you trust putin more), so you are proving my point.

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Kathy

GOP thinking is witnesses would be a waste of time since their minds are made up already.

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olliesmom

I am ready for all to get back to work for America! This has been such a waste of time and money and good for the country! When I think of all that could have been done, it's just shameful!

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Nana H

Actually this is the most work the Senate has done all year. They stopped legislating the day the Dems won the House. The House on the other hand has passed significant legislation and continues to do so.

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Toby

How long have those 400 pieces of legislation been sitting on McConnell's desk?

Furthermore, the GOP have already said that they won't touch some of the most important issues until after the election because they know it will be unpopular with the voters. GOPers won't know what they voted for until after the election.

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lurker111

400 bills in that amount of time? Talk about an agenda! The house is dysfunctional under pelosi.

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Joaniepoanie

Just think of all that could have gotten done during the what?.....11 Benghazi investigations, which turned up NOTHING. But Trump bribes a foreign leader for his personal benefit , abuses power and obstructs justice and it’s no biggie, let’s just get back to work.

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Iris GW

Agree. Anyone who supported multiple Benghazi hearings is a hypocrite to say that we need to just get back to business and stop wasting time and money.

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elvis

Kathy

I think desperate times call for desperate measures. It might make some Republicans think about their oath.

Ankle monitors are worn around the ankle, where they are not clearly visible.

Not around the neck, Kathy.

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Kathy


Elvis, Trump is the one with strings attached.

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elvis

Huh?

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