Our primary problems are

1. stove to sink location (traffic to dining room safety, countertop landing space (on the left hand sides, DW between)
2. mudroom location with laundry combination
   --been trying to devise a plan for friends and family entry off of formal foyer, since our front door is used (but realistic that this may not be facilitated in the space. Just curious a fresh set of eyes might see opportunity)
   ----this is a debate if keeping the formal, barely used dining room is smart or not for us. We are both very formal/traditional, yet function in today's world.
   --switching laundry and half bath, so bathroom is accessible for mudroom/kitchen and also patio. & laundry accessible to master & upstairs.
   ------second debate is opening "master 1 closet" to great room and moving "master 1 closet" to barely used front "office"
3. peninsula & kitchen table - would prefer "conversational" island not complete shoulder to shoulder seating, but rounded. Lack of seating in our current situation & heavy traffic due to slider/mudroom egress.
4. to keep the dining room or not. It is used, only when entertaining. However, we have a large extended family and entertain a lot. So space is the issue.

Load bearing and Hvacs:
DR & Kitchen: Hvac & loading bearing post, however can be opened to as wide double door opening

Great room and kitchen
3 posts, wall can be removed.

Master 1 closet - husband will find out if load bearing if determined if best route to go. Has 2 posts and electrical.

We had gotten inspiration from the shumacher home builder west point A floor plan -

But at the same time, we felt there was a lot of wasted space & no drawers for plates.... I guess I've been converted thanks to this forum :)

Just to note, we did hire a kitchen designer, we felt they were more interested in selling products, not our needs. Other designers have told us to contact architects. Architects we have reached out to - tell us to contact kitchen designers. Just felt like we hit a brick wall.

I don't know if this would be feasible, or even if the scale is correct. Can you use the dinette area for counter seating? Rather than a prep area, the L shaped island would be a snacks/drinks area, with dish storage on the end, convenient to the DW. It could also be used for a secondary prep space for a helper.

thank you so much for this! We are reviewing this now.

in your opinion, do you think a straight island may be a better choice in this particular situation vs a double L?

We had discussed changing the sliding glass door to a window preciously (aiming for U shaped style kitchen), but even in that case we still would have to account for the egress pathway.

again, thank you, especially for the walkways/natural human routes.

When you say you want a friends and family entrance off the formal foyer, what does that mean? A secondary entrance elsewhere? Mud room space incorporated there? Something else entirely?

As for the formal dining room question, I believe in having formal dining rooms, and in using them for your meals :-). I would aim to have one generous dining space that gets used for all meals, eliminating the dinette space. No reason not enjoy and use your “nice” dining room, and no reason to devote space to duplicate dining rooms.

As for master closet 1, this seems like an ideal place for a laundry room. Then you take some or all of the office space for a closet.

I would probably keep the powder bath off the great room for guests, but I can see that it might make sense to add a second, fairly bare bones powder bath off the mud room if space allows. That said, I wouldn’t sacrifice generous mudroom space for it in your climate.

I like Mama’s plan a lot, but I would at least consider having the cleanup sink on the island and prep sink on the perimeter, as it seems like a better cleanup flow from the dining room.

If you need the support posts, you'll need to tie them into the island design, but then if the island is the standard 42", and the perimeter is 25", you'll have almost 8' between them. Too far to be used for primary prep. You could make the island deeper, with shallow cabinets on the back side, but then you might have a pinch-point between it and the fridge So, then the fridge moves down.

As Kristin S suggested, you might put the clean-up zone on the island, and put a prep sink on the perimeter:

I was working on a more accurate grid and became side-tracked. Here it is as I originally drew it:

Kristin, we were thinking of moving the mudroom towards the front of the house instead of rear as it is now.

I'm glad to read formal dining isn't completely by the wayside!

That's a smart thought about the guests/powder room off of great room, it is very convenient.

M.Goose you are astounding! I've been following these boards for awhile and your patience in addition to your knowledge and ideas is amazing. again, thank you.

I like the idea of the cleanup on the island as well, but I also think of all the time spent prepping vs cleaning. My concern is the prep sink distance from the island to range, so on the perimeter may be the best option in this case.

I'm not sure I like this better than what you have above, but if you wanted to get the mudroom to the front of the house, what about something like this? It would require moving the bearing wall that's currently between the kitchen and dining room, though, which may be a more significant change than you want to undertake. Alternately, you could flip the dining room and kitchen, and then maybe use the current mudroom space as storage?

I also moved the laundry room to the master closet, and made part of the current office space closet while keeping a narrow office. I'm not sure if there's really enough space for both, but you'd have to actually map it out to know. I liked the idea of keeping a small away office for anyone doing work that needs quiet, making a call, etc..

Oh, and ignore the accidentally revered door swing on the master bedroom and the random door in the great room. I had technical difficulties :-).

I would keep the current Mudroom with modifications:

Move location of steps so they are next to the other set of stairs. Eliminates traffic jams (and pushing) during boot removal time/hanging jackets/etc.

I tweaked Kristin's plan above by keeping master bathroom where it is and moving laundry room.

I like where Kristin is going with this... we have a very similar setup here in our MN home. Kitchen for us is between mud and dining (which bumps out). As suggested it will require a pretty big re-work. The kitchen is nice to have near the great room to keep an eye on littles, watch tv while preparing food, etc. You can have a "formal" dining room which is also your everyday dining table - no need to have two separate spaces. Use a large round table for easy conversation. Then have seating around the island for a quick bite.

Thank you, A Cole. I do this for myself, too--I'm hoping that the brain puzzles of kitchen planning will help stave off dementia. I've had a bit of time to think about having clean-up on the island, although I like the L island better. I was thinking that with the L, you could have 5 people sit on the end, for a quick meal, and with the snack area it would be a nice place for the kids and their friends, or for entertaining.

But having clean-up on the island has an advantage--it will allow you to center the range on the back wall, if the prep sink is between it and the fridge. You could have wide drawers on each side of the range, and a small receptacle for scraps under the prep sink. On the island, you could keep the trash/recycle pull-out on the end, or put trash under the sink there, too, and keep the MW on the corner..

I moved the island out from the posts, and moved the fridge down slightly, to keep a decent walkway for traffic. I've been using 6' + 6' for space between the posts, but I also moved the island over another few inches, to help with the walkway.

you guys are all fantastic with valid points each.

Moving walls, load bearing, HVAC, electrical etc. is a hefty job, fortunately husband is an elctrical and mechanical engineer that goes beyond application. Unfortunately, finding additional qualified help is also becoming an issue, I suppose that's why I was trying to find a way to not move big walls or do an addition. I keep seeing all this space.....anyway, we are not opposed to moving anything, it's not out of our realm.

The foyer, first let me clarify the closest are recessed on the outside walls and we do not have a covered porch. I'm going to grab some pictures, the foyer in all feels huge, or perceptive wise due to catwalk/2 story. I almost felt we could steal space from here to use for other spaces. The closets are deep, but narrow, 17" wide by almost 3ft deep.
I thought of doing a pull out pantry with a single door for the closets, due to their depth, with rods for hanging, and a shelf or two for shoes & boots. As for decorative benches/tables etc., I've had a hard time for placement because it is so open and no pony walls/dividers, etc. Currently it turns into a shoe free for all for everyone. We've discussed wall dividers, free standing closets, wine racks, blah blah blah, but again, we weren't sure the future of this space and wanted to hold off. At one point we even discussed making this our office space.

I'm so appreciative of all - we have been working with already proposed ideas, you all have given us hope ! I have been taking the plans and trying my best to assimilate each, which is hard in an existing area, but I knew immediately I didn't want my back always turned.

As for laundry, I've read a lot with pros and cons with it being ideal being near the mudroom area, keeping the mud from the house. I REALLY like Kristin's idea, especially given the master is right off the great room. I have a secondary entry to the basement through the garage, plumbed for another bathroom, would it be unwise to add a second laundry in the basement in addition to first floor laundry? just curious? I grew up with basement laundry, it's not awful, but not first choice if it's not necessary either (I keep thinking longevity-down the road).

okay, sorry, and thank you again!! sending everything over to the husband now.

Which way do family members normally enter the house, through the front door or the mudroom? We mostly use our front door, so I know the foyer shoe free for all well, unfortunately. As a very, very immediate term solution I recommend a couple of big baskets that you can periodically scoop all the shoes into and pretend they’re organized. Or at least that’s the best alternative we’ve found.

Photos would help. I agree your foyer feels very big, but because of the staircase location it’s difficult to figure out how to repurpose the space.

What would you gain from a basement laundry room? Would you really carry laundry down to the basement when there’s a first floor laundry available? I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn’t. If I were going to add a second laundry, I think I’d try to add a stacked pair upstairs for the kids’ use before I added one in the basement.

so the arch in the dining room is not structural, above is however.
the basement, 21" of the wall is creating a basement hall/foyer wall, which could be eliminated. the arches are just decorative.

across from basement is pantry ROTS pantry cabinet, a doorway to kitchen can be created here, but post on dining side is there and continues to arch in kitchen/great room, wall can be removed, but those are the 2 posts that must stay.

I also included the floor plan we were first inspired by, but it has so many flaws (or have we spent too much time here being educated?)

I am loving all the kitchen plans you've thought of fyi, I'm still trying to find the designer's plan that they drew up for us (because wouldn't additional dimensions help?)

Well, it depends really, if entering the garage, mudroom, otherwise its front door.

Kristin I think your plan is really on point with our overall goal, with Mamagoose's kitchen too... I think we are getting into the swing of things now