Why do this?

Annie Deighnaugh



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dandyfopp

To be silent is to be complicit, it is as simple as that.

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how2girl

To give up is to give in.

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Kathy

True Patriots see what Trump is doing quietly in the background while he is propping up the economy with more borrowed debt.

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queenmargo

The tactics just don't stop.

Many of us felt the same about Obama.


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Stan Areted

Yet those critical of Obama were castigated unmercifully and fallaciously labeled racist if they did not agree with his policies.


If you're telling the truth, it's a good thing.

The truth of Barack Obama's administration is what resulted in Donald Trump becoming President Donald J. Trump.

If one is telling lies and speculations, that's another.

True patriots see exactly what President Trump is doing--and getting done, and true patriots see and hear the palpable, hateful lies against our President.

We'll see in November.

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socks(10a)

I protest not for myself but for my kids and grandkids.

Lies about trump. Really? I’ve not seen them in mainstream media. That’s ridiculous, and I’m surprised to see you say it about a man who has cheated and lied his way through life.

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dandyfopp

^^

That. The survival of the country we inherited.

This is about nothing less.


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Iris GW

True patriots see exactly what President Trump is doing

Again with the lie that people who don't agree with Trump are not patriots.

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

the lies against the orange emporer...


who himself lied -on camera and in interviews- with witnesses, more than 10`000 times, did he make the 15`000-mark yet?


too tired an fed up to keep up

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Kathy

Trump is only patriotic to Trump. True Patriots see he is dismantling our Democracy and consolidating power to the President. His hope is he can pass the presidency on to his family when he leaves.

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lurker111

You don't have to agree with Trump to be a patriot. You don't have to agree with the crats to be a traitor.

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Annie Deighnaugh

True patriots see exactly what President Trump is doing...

Yes, true patriots do see the damage he is doing to our Constitution and the office of the presidency....the lies, the corruption, the illegality...

It is trumpatriots who defend him no matter what...faithful only to him, not the country.

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lurker111

How so?

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paprikash

No, the democrats are only faithful to their party — look at what the House did. It’s time for them to put our country first and not the democrat party.

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Rina

A beautiful anecdote. I also feel that speaking your truth whenever you can is a balm to the soul in a troubling world.

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Nana H

In think it's wrong for anyone to question or judge another's patriotism.

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Annie Deighnaugh

look at what the House did...

I am...I see them uncovering and putting on the record that the president illegally withheld payments authorized by congress to a struggling democracy, extorting them for personal gain: announce a phoney investigation against my political rival or you won't get any aid or political support from the US. In the process, they threatened the security of a US ambassador.

I see them establishing trump's obstruction of congress by refusing to turn over any documents or allowing witnesses to testify as to what they saw and heard in the administration regarding this "drug deal" extortion for which trump&co were perverting US foreign policy for personal gain.

I see them doing what they can to remove a president from office who has defied the Constitution, committed high crimes and misdemeanors, and who represents such a threat to national security that it is dangerous for the nation to allow him to finish his term.

The dems are doing their job...now the gop needs to grow a backbone and do the same.

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zmith

Agree Nana H. It’s insulting to claim that, just because someone doesn’t believe what they believe. We will never live in a world where everyone thinks alike.

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Delilah66

"Yet those critical of Obama were castigated unmercifully and fallaciously labeled racist if they did not agree with his policies."

...and nothing has changed.

"True patriots see exactly what President Trump is doing--and getting done, and true patriots see and hear the palpable, hateful lies against our President."

All the Presidents we have lived under have accomplishments on their records. However, the Constitution does not address "accomplishments" as a consideration in the impeachment process. True patriots are loyal to America, which is not the same as being loyal to POTUS particularly those who value truth.

"We'll see in November."

We might see before November whether the jurors truly represent those who elected them.

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paprikash

Nana H

In think it's wrong for anyone to question or judge another's patriotism.

——-

I think it’s wrong to call those disagreeing with another’s politics nasty names but it’s done here all the time

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queenmargo

It’s insulting to claim that, just because someone doesn’t believe what they believe. We will never live in a world where everyone thinks alike.

NOW, You get it Z. Spread the word and heed your own words.


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rob333 (zone 7a)

queenmargo

Many of us felt the same about Obama.

Stan "labeled racists"


I agree with both of those. I feel like we could meet in the middle. Not that I condoned calling anyone a racist for not supporting a black President. But I did see that, and I hated it when it happened. Maybe some were, but protesting him didn't make one a racist.


We all feel the need to protest, so let's keep on being Americans. Let's don't let the anger break us apart.

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zmith

QM, Have I ever called someone a traitor? Have I called Trump supporters idiots? I don’t think I have, because that’s not my style. Save your admonishments for those here who truly deserve it.

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leona_2008

Thanks, Annie and Rina.

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queenmargo

QM, Have I ever called someone a traitor? Have I called Trump supporters idiots? I don’t think I have, because that’s not my style. Save your admonishments for those here who truly deserve it.

Do you admonish the left who do? I do not see you speaking up to them.

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Iris GW

It’s time for them to put our country first and not the democrat party.

I could say the same thing about the Republicans wanting to dismiss the Senate trial without even having it. How patriotic is that?

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adoptedbyhounds

"In think it's wrong for anyone to question or judge another's patriotism."

Remember that next time somebody tries to tell you that Trump is "Putin's Puppet."


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vgkg (Va Z-7)

^^^ Actions speak for themselves.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Nothing wrong with calling someone a traitor who is actually a traitor...the truth is a valid defense for slander/libel.

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leona_2008

We each should always guard our own moral codes. If you have to go against your own moral code to accept a concept, that should trigger you to question that concept and to question your own values. It could be the concept is too flawed. It could be that it's time for your values to evolve. We should beware adopting the thinking of others as our own. That can happen without our realizing it and I dare say most of us can be susceptible in some instance or another.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

We each should always guard our own moral codes. If you have to go against your own moral code to accept a concept, that should trigger you to question that concept and to question your own values.

It's called having scruples. With each given mulligan another scruple dies.

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zmith

QM, I will as soon as you do the same.

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lurker111

I could say the same thing about the Republicans wanting to dismiss the
Senate trial without even having it. How patriotic is that?

Show us the evidence. Not something someone imagined...real evidence of any crime, impeachable or not.

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lurker111

People see, people do.

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Toby

Trump supporters seem to have a different definition of patriotism than the rest of us. This from the Encyclopaedia Brittanica may explain why. While we all are patriots, Trump supporters may be loyalists. The link explains the difference. The question is where their loyalty lies--to country or to Trump? They are not one and the same.

Patriotism, feeling of attachment and commitment to a country, nation, or political community. Patriotism (love of country) and nationalism (loyalty to one’s nation) are often taken to be synonymous, yet patriotism has its origins some 2,000 years prior to the rise of nationalism in the 19th century.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/patriotism-sociology

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Kitchenwitch111

QM, you often post that meme -- of course we don't want a president we can’t control. Why would anyone? He works for the American people; he answers to us. That’s what makes America different from other countries.

It's not wrong to not want a president who lies, who is corrupt, who is not a decent human.

It’s shocking to me that so many just let Trump control them, their minds, their values, and their truth.

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socks(10a)

His messy life has left a trail of debris. No doubt problems at home so sent away to military school (by a non-military family), countless lawsuits, divorce, cheating on wife, scandals caught/killed, bankruptcies, unpaid contractors, lies, lies, lies, severe criticism as president and now impeachment. It's a wonder he can function. Just look at his life!! Why would we want this miserable man leading our country and the world?

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Ann

"In think it's wrong for anyone to question or judge another's patriotism."

Oh yes, "judge"ment. Not a good look for the one doing it. I see it often on HT - especially about patriotism, ethics, values and morals.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Good points Kitchenwitch...and what scares a lot of gop members is they can't control him either. Anyone who thinks it was only the dems who were scared scatless when trump brought this nation to the brink of war with iran ought to think again. The gop were just as thankful that some with saner heads were able to talk trump down off that lunatic path as the dems were. And what should scare everyone is the only one who seems to be able to control trump with any consistency is putin.

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Ann

Hayday had an excellent comment on this judgement topic several weeks ago - something about most of us being more or less the same when it comes to values. I wish I would have saved it. I think it made the whole judgement thing look as childish and petty as it is.

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Ann

"The gop were just as thankful that some with saner heads were able to talk trump down off that lunatic path as the dems were."

Wow, what a sentence, on so many levels!!!!!!!!

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Rina

I would think, if it is the president's duty to serve the people first and foremost under all circumstances, it is the people's duty to make sure he or she does that. Which means the president has to be subject to the control of the people. The country is not a playpen for the Boss. Very simple.

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Nana H

When people say over and over they support what Trump does. When they repeatedly refuse to critize him for anything no matter how outrageous. When they go so far as to defend him at every turn , it isn't being judgemental to say they share his values etc they are telling us they do. Should we not believe them?

The day I hear a core Trump supporter say they like his policies but not his behaviors I'll listen. BTW , I think that the RepublIcans, and it's a significant percentage, who "somewhat " approve of Trump are in that category....approve of his policies not of him.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

I believe the duty of the POTUS, first and foremost, is to uphold our Constitution, since every POTUS takes an oath to do so.

And he is being charged with violating that oath. There has been a lot of evidence provided to support that charge, so just keep foolishly pretending there hasn't been, why don't you?

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adoptedbyhounds

"He works for the American people; he answers to us. That’s what makes America different from other countries."

We are incredibly fortunate that efforts to replace that system with a silent coup failed. We were scheduled to have our president chosen FOR us, without ever knowing it had happened, or who participated.

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lily316

I agree with stan that Obama being president is why trump is here. The racists in this country and there are many , mostly in the republican party were aghast a black man was president for two terms. trump pumped the birther movement for years sending investigators to Hawaii for nothing except to gain attention from the racists. The "truth" thing is a little hard to swallow though since their esteemed leader is now up to 15000 PROVEN lies. He told about ten yesterday when he said he absolutely did not know Parnas even though they ate dinner different times side by side and he was with Rudy five days a week.

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mudhouse

I agree with stan that Obama being president is why trump is here. The racists in this country and there are many , mostly in the republican party were aghast a black man was president for two terms.

Lily, you're quite welcome to your own opinion, but comments like this make me very glad I don't view everything through a filter of racism. You might try to consider the existence of other reasons for people to dislike Obama, like his policies.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

I think 'don't judge others' is nonsense. People judge other people all the time, and it is necessary to make those evaluations for an array of reasons. 'Don't judge' is one of those worthless, feel better counter phrases that people go to, especially when they don't want to hear criticism for their actions/opinions, or the causes they support.

Or is it there are exceptions for judging, such as the homeless, people seeking asylum, politicians of a different party, criminals, liars, poor people, etc.? Judging is seen here in HT by everyone, yet no one is supposed to judge another? Ridiculous. I judge all of you by your words and actions. The truth is, I doubt there is anyone that does not do the same.

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barncatz

The GOP said Trump committed no crime. The GAO now rules he broke the law.

The nonpartisan Government Accountability Office severely undermines a core Trump impeachment defense.

Washington Post and everywhere else.

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mudhouse

In think it's wrong for anyone to question or judge another's patriotism.

I'm going to agree more with gyr_falcon on this one. I think we all judge each other, if we're really honest about it. What causes the rub is when we say it out loud (or in a forum, when we post statements with blanket judgements about people we disagree with.)

Lots of judgements are based on a guess about other people's motivations for holding a viewpoint. But unless they've been very explicit about why they hold that view, we really can't know why they do, unless we're mind readers.

Going back to the OP, I think that's the main benefit offered by this forum. We have at least a chance to try to understand why people believe what they do.

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numbersjunkie

"No, the democrats are only faithful to their party — look at what the House did. It’s time for them to put our country first and not the democrat party."

I can only speak for myself. I was never involved in politics before 2016. Never even registered to vote even though I was in my early 60's. I always "thought" I was Republican, because my friends were Republican. And my husband identified as Republican (he has still never voted but will vote now).

So no, I had no loyalty to the democratic party. I registered to vote in 2016 as a democrat. But I did not do that in order to vote "for" Hillary, I did it to vote "against" Trump.

I was very familiar with Trump - his reality show, his failed businesses, his loud mouth and disrespect for those who deserved respect even if you didn't agree with them. Anyone who claimed to have all of the answers,said everything would be "so easy" to fix, and claimed he was "the only one" who could fix things had to be an idiot. And I think he proved me right in my assessment.

If things had worked out differently, I might have considered becoming a Republican down the road - after Trump was out of office. While I have some concerns about the democratic party moving "too far too fast" to the left, I would never want to be associated with the Republican party as it stands now. I see nothing there but a bunch of entitled individuals who have no empathy, no desire to help those less fortunate. Its all about them, keeping their power at any cost.


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lily316

I have been a democrat all my life but never detested the other party before as I do now.

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Stan Areted

mudhouse:

"I agree with stan that Obama being president is why trump is here. The racists in this country and there are many , mostly in the republican party were aghast a black man was president for two terms."

Lily, you're quite welcome to your own opinion, but comments like this make me very glad I don't view everything through a filter of racism. You might try to consider the existence of other reasons for people to dislike Obama, like his policies.


I, too, mudhouse, am glad that you and I do not view life and others through a filter of racism, physical appearance, political party, geographic location, size, weight, and other traits of which we only would identify and attack if we did not identify with certain traits. Indeed--variety is what we thrive on.

The good thing is that we are not shallow people and do not judge people negatively because they are a different color of us, race than us, live in a different region of the country, have a different background, wear hairstyles or have physical traits that are not like ours, and other totally irrelevant differences in humans.

There were very, very many good reasons not to agree with Barack Obama's policies and not a one of those had to do with his race or background. To accuse people of that is loathsome and is evidence of a weak thought process, bereft of objectivity, fairness, and good intent.

Such a knee jerk thought process seems to run on hateful resentment and misplaced superiority, and is indeed evidence of what used to be end of life bitterness, but has now spread to younger generations because the left has embraced this ideal left from old hippies.

Sadly, that "mindset" and it is hardly that, will be with us awhile.



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Delilah66

“[I] think it's wrong for anyone to question or judge another's patriotism.”

NanaH, my first reaction was that trump considers and presents himself as a patriot and I surely question and judge his words and actions not to be those of a patriot. Then I tried to find an example of him referring to self as a patriot. Nada. Apparently only the cult refers to him as a patriot. So, I changed my mind and strongly AGREE with your ^^^ comment.

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barncatz

I just had lunch with a cousin. She told me she had considered herself an Independent. I had always thought she was a pragmatic, moderate Republican. Our daughters were born a few months apart three decades ago, and we have always supported each other.

Anyway, I was really surprised at lunch when she then said "I will never vote for another Republican because of their devotion to Trump".


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queenmargo

I will never vote for a liberal after reading Hot Topics, believe me.

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Tito Milian

Stan— Obama is half white. That filter has a leftist prism

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Stan Areted

You have a point, Tito Milian.

Of course those filters get a workout depending on the audience and objective!

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chipotle

So I guess that answers my pondering.

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Annie Deighnaugh

There were very, very many good reasons not to agree with Barack Obama's policies and not a one of those had to do with his race or background. To accuse people of that is loathsome and is evidence of a weak thought process, bereft of objectivity, fairness, and good intent.

There are also people who view political choices through the lens of racism, who judged obama by it, and voted for trump because of it. trump refused to abandon birtherism through much of the campaign for a reason. White supremacists have become more open under trump for a reason. To deny that trump supporters making those choices exist is naive and unrealistic.

For example:

Searches containing racist epithets and jokes were spiking across the country during Trump’s primary run, and not merely in the South but in upstate New York, Western Pennsylvania, Eastern Ohio, rural Illinois, West Virginia, and industrial Michigan.

Stephens-Davidowitz saw in the Google Trends data a racially polarized electorate, and one primed to respond to the ethno-nationalist rhetoric of Trump. Source

and:

Ever since Donald J. Trump began his improbable political rise, many pundits have credited his appeal among white, Christian and male voters to “economic anxiety.”... A study published on Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences questions that explanation, the latest to suggest that Trump voters weren’t driven by anger over the past, but rather fear of what may come. White, Christian and male voters, the study suggests, turned to Mr. Trump because they felt their status was at risk....

Trump support was linked to a belief that high-status groups, such as whites, Christians or men, faced more discrimination than low-status groups, like minorities, Muslims or women, according to Dr. Mutz’s analysis of the NORC study. Source

People with this attitude exist. They've become more apparent under trump. It's up to you whether you include yourself among them or not. But don't blame someone for pointing out the reality that they exist.

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Tito Milian

The purity test just keeps getting purer.

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Rina

Tito, I think you may not be aware that in the past few decades the term "black" was deliberately extended by black people to include those of mixed white and black race. This was because some (not many) decades ago, the predominantly white public discourse on the issue tended to divide people into "white" and "not white" (in South Africa, non-white) -- and it wasn't a consciously racist division in all cases; I think to some whites it just seemed polite at the time because they were confused and insensitive. Black political thought pointed out that they were not "not", they had a real and positive identity in their own right. And that identity they chose to call "black". And it was deliberately extended to mixed-race black/white people because it was understood that they had suffered too from white prejudices and legal systems. They were seen as having common cause. In South Africa it was also extended to people of Indian descent, to a certain degree.

I'm probably much more aware of this than most white Americans would be, or other white populations in the world, simply because I'm African. It was a major issue of a people demanding respect, both here in my country and in the African diaspora.

So to refer to Barack Obama as "black" is in my opinion entirely correct in the modern lexicon. It's not necessary, I think, but it is in line with both practical politics and courtesy, for the most part. It's not without its problems, but they are no worse than other problems created by trying to find suitable nomenclature for an unsuitable but very real division of races.

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HU-885118952

There is much wisdom in that bon mot. I post, too, sir. Millions of us post every single day and will continue to post until President Trump leaves office.


It is worth it.

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Rina

To clarify, I'm African, but I'm white. Almost entirely.

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Annie Deighnaugh

In the US, the definition of who is black and white goes back much further. From wikipedia:

The one-drop rule is a social and legal principle of racial classification that was historically prominent in the United States in the 20th century. It asserted that any person with even one ancestor of sub-Saharan African ancestry ("one drop" of black blood)[1][2] is considered black (Negro or colored in historical terms).

This concept became codified into the law of some states in the early 20th century. It was associated with the principle of "invisible blackness" that developed after the long history of racial interaction in the South, which had included the hardening of slavery as a racial caste and later segregation. It is an example of hypodescent, the automatic assignment of children of a mixed union between different socioeconomic or ethnic groups to the group with the lower status, regardless of proportion of ancestry in different groups.[3]

The one-drop rule is defunct in law in the United States and was never codified into federal law.

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Ziemia(6a)

"The one-drop rule was not adopted as law until the 20th century: first in Tennessee in 1910 and in Virginia under the Racial Integrity Act of 1924 (following the passage of similar laws in several other states)."

Here are the "start" dates. Now looking for the 'end' dates.

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Ziemia(6a)

Louisiana repealed theirs in 1983. (Most of are born before then?)

"Although never codified into federal law, the one-drop rule was used as recently as 1980, when a Louisiana woman was denied her request to be classified as white on her birth certificate because of a black ancestor four generations back. A Louisiana law, repealed in 1983, assigned residents as “colored” if one thirty-second of their ancestry included African descent."

https://www.baystatebanner.com/2017/12/27/u-s-still-clings-to-one-drop-rule/

More about the Louisiana law

LOUISIANA REPEALS BLACK BLOOD LAW https://nyti.ms/29JWtkC

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Ziemia(6a)

More background and a new word:

In its most extreme form in the United States, hypodescent was the basis of the "one drop rule", meaning that if an individual had any black ancestry, the person was classified as black. Laws were passed in southern states and others in the early 20th century, long after the end of slavery to define white and black, under associated laws for segregation: Tennessee adopted such a "one-drop" statute in 1910; Louisiana; Texas; Arkansas in 1911; Mississippi in 1917; North Carolina in 1923; Virginia in 1924; Alabama and Georgia in 1927; and Oklahoma in 1931.

During this same period, Florida, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Utah retained their old "blood fraction" statutes de jure, but amended these fractions (one-sixteenth, one-thirtysecond) to be equivalent to one-drop de facto.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypodescent?wprov=sfla1

Still haven't found the "end dates". Are these laws still on the books? Just superceded by Federal mandate?

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ubro(2a)

No, the democrats are only faithful to their party — look at what the House did. It’s time for them to put our country first and not the democrat party.

Really? have you seen Mitch and Linsey saying they are not non-partisan jurors, a blatant partisan position. Did you watch Nunes and Jordan in the hearings, they were foolishly partisan.


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cattyles

Ubro, especially true now that we know Nunes was aware of the whole dirty scandal while representing himself as outraged during the House hearings.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Good ol nunes, the White House's midnight runner, he scurries around pretending to be innocent just like all of Trump's "rats'.

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Delilah66
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adoptedbyhounds

I went back and read the OP. It begins with the poster being asked what purpose is served by bashing President Trump on social media.

The answer, the poster tells us, is not to change the country. "I do this so the country won't change me."

Unfortunately, it's possible for such sustained activity to achieve the opposite result:

"I have been a democrat all my life but never detested the other party before as I do now."

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HU-699631886

And why do thy abandon honest evaluation of facts, embrace conspiracy theories and things they know are lies. They do it because of who they support.

If they honestly evaluated facts, they could not support Trump.

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paprikash

As far as the OP and the purpose served by bashing President Trump on social media, I think many of these posts are by those who are party faithful above all else. Most people who are not strict party loyalists are able to see the good Trump has accomplished as well as inappropriate tweets and comments he has made. Until now, I’ve always been an independent — I thought Obama stunk as president and was very phony and insincere but gave him props for reading a great speech, making a nice appearance, being a great family man and being careful and cautious.

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HU-699631886

What good has trump accomplished?

Let's see the list.

Just yesterday on the news we learned that there will be a loosening of the dietary changes from the Obama era for school cafeterias. More Pizza, hamburgers and fries . Fewer fruits and vegetables. Ya think that is a good thing.

I don't


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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Bizarro world thoughts: President Obama is a phony and Mr. Trump is genuine?


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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

If they honestly evaluated facts, they could not support Trump.

Not necessarily. Looking at similar politics, but smaller scale and degree, take Duncan Hunter's district. I used to live there, and still visit. So I've talked to people that were aware of what Hunter did and was able to learn why they were still going to vote for him. They didn't have to lie or evade the truth to explain their reasoning (even though I strongly disagreed with their reasoning). Many even agreed he was guilty, or probably guilty. Yet they said why they were still going to vote for him.

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Stan Areted

carolb:

Many people who unconditionally support Mr. Trump as president are pleased with his cruelty and vulgarity. IMO, it's spite and malice.

I don't think that was ever the case.

However, I would not be a bit surprised if spite and malice are beginning to come into the picture because of President Trump supporters reading and hearing statements such as the one above.

It all started with Hillary referring to Trump supporters as "deplorable."

Words AND elections have consequences. That's probably the only important thing that ever passed Barack Obama's lips.

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HU-699631886

One of gyr's comments is missing

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Rina

I think Carolb is right -- note, "many" -- not "all" but also not "a few". Trump has had his spite and malice on show from the start, so it is natural that people who are spiteful and malicious -- and lean, at least, to the right wing -- would be attracted to him. Consider, for instance, his denial that John McCain was a war hero. You don't get more spiteful and malicious than that. Some people loved it.

I'm bemused at the long-lasting outrage that the "deplorables" comment aroused. It's hardly the worst thing one could be called by one's political opposite, after all. At the time I misread it (I suppose) to refer only to the people he had gathered around him on his campaign -- Bannon and the like -- and I thought it was spot on. He'd gone shopping for really awful people and popped them in his basket. Unfair, of course, if it was meant to mean everyone who was going to vote for trump, and not calculated to make friends of enemies. But oh my goodness, I think the fuss about it is and has been way over the top.

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Toby

Hillary was very specific who among his supporters are deplorable. If you think she was talking about you, you might have some soul-searching to do.

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of
Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

For those who are surprised that many people see Trump as racist, Hillary's speech which she gave just prior to her "basket of deplorables" remark will remind you of his history. She nailed it in what to expect from his presidency too.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/transcript-hillary-clinton-alt-right-reno-227419

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ubro(2a)

It all started with Hillary referring to Trump supporters as "deplorable."

False, see above comment from Toby.

But it is easier to cherry pick her words in order to whip up outrage and feel insulted than it is to read her entire speech and admit she said no such thing.

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elvis

ubro(2a)

It all started with Hillary referring to Trump supporters as "deplorable."

False, see above comment from Toby.

But it is easier to cherry pick her words in order to whip up outrage and feel insulted than it is to read her entire speech and admit she said no such thing.

Sure she did:

Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton lashed out at many supporters of Donald Trump Friday, saying half of them hold hateful views that put them in a “basket of deplorables.”

“You could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right,” Clinton said, drawing laughter and applause as she addressed about 1,000 donors at an LGBT for Hillary fundraising gala in New York City, “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it.” Adding that Trump had “given voice” to many of those elements through his campaign rhetoric and retweets, she continued that, “some of those folks—they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.”

She suggested that the second “bucket” of Trump supporters feel alienated by economic instability and government dysfunction and are desperate for any change. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different,” she continued. “Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”

https://time.com/4486437/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-basket-of-deplorables/

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Rina

Thanks, Toby and Ubro -- clarity! I'm ashamed I that I've never looked up the speech to check, just eventually accepted the view expressed by right-wingers here that it did apply to all Trump supporters. Instead, it's a matter of "if the shoe fits". My only problem with it now is the casual use "half". The percentage is open to argument.

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Toby

She did apologize for that. She used it in a way like we do when we say "99% of the time...." Yes, it's casual and only meant to make a point, not to provide accuracy.

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

...Somewhere up thread, there was a mention of the 'youths' who have embraced an ideology left of center, and this is because of 'old hippies'?

That sounds like the attitude that the parents and older generations had when the 'hippies' first came along, bringing a culture of change - they didn't think it wasn't right that they or their peers were being sent off to die in Vietnam (if they didn't manage to get a deferment because they were in college or qualified for one of the other rare exceptions, or their parents were wealthy enough and their consciences allowed them to be willing to pay for special treatment)...

Those hippies mostly grew up and realized that the only way to change anything was to become part of the system, as lobbyists or politicians, lawyers, or working their way up to the top of corporations. It's highly unlikely that they would encourage the 'youths' to go out and do everything in their power to bring down the established order. A significant majority of all those from the 'hippie' generation - whether they joined forces with the 'man'/system or not - went to work at the same employer for decades, even as changes made by republican majority government allowed for CEOs, corporations, boards of directors, and the like to treat employees shoddily and left at a total disadvantage with little if any truly accessible safety net to be found. The government wants charities and religious institutions to provide one, while charities and religious institutions (the ones that even bother with the populations that might be in need of some help) have been utterly overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of those in need of one. The portrayal of liberal 'hippies' as the enemy of the centrist/conservative 'hippies who established lives in places reliant on manufacturing and the businesses surrounding those major employers who put less emphasis on employees who went to college...That isn't something that liberals sought to accomplish, but it was something that more conservative minded people decided to use to their advantage.

The anti-establishment counterculture of 'hippies' has come to a horrific realization that the best they can hope to accomplish is to limit the devastation by a mere fraction - it's still terrible, just slightly *less* terrible. They progressed further into adulthood and largely sought out places in this country that openly welcomed more liberal thinking people, unintentionally leading their sociopolitical opposites to work towards gaining the upper hand, painting liberals as 'the enemy' so conservatives could gain the benefit through the ballot box and with various moves designed to allow discrimination against that enemy. If they can't stop local or state governments from taking stands on issues like gun control and immigrants that conservatives dislike, they'll just make them suffer through other ways (tax cuts and jobs act, anyone?) until they can use something like "Look, see how much they've run up the national debt!?" against them.

If the republicans were really so worried about the national debt, they'd have used more reliable methods and more conservative estimates to determine whether that stupid tax cut legislation could pay for itself (it won't) much less if it *would*. They'd also have wanted to figure out whether all the shifting money around or filing lawsuits to block revenue sources set out in legislation passed by earlier administrations, or massive spending on military (but not so much spending on the personnel whether they're veterans, living in dilapidated housing and sending their children to crowded/run down schools on base, or deployed to active areas of combat with a significant risk of being injured so severely it leaves them missing limbs or otherwise maimed - almost guaranteed to suffer from PTSD even if they aren't injured at all) would create a sizeable increase in the national debt they claim to have so much concern about. Otherwise, they're transparently showing they're only concerned about that debt/spending stuff when a democrat or centrist is in charge.

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lurker111

Yes, true patriots do see the damage he is doing to our Constitution and
the office of the presidency....the lies, the corruption, the
illegality...

Empty words.

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lurker111

I'm an old hippie and most definitely want to know about the left's corruption in Ukraine, and everywhere else. I don't want my tax dollars going to "underdeveloped nations" where the crats have their kids set up to rake in our money.

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marquest(PA zone 6)

I do not think all Repubs are racist but if someone is racist it is a good bet they are Repubs.


Just a few of the things that happened during the Obama Presidency and most of it posted on HT. Yet when some are called racist they feign upset. If it was not racist they would not have been banned for making racist remarks. But still they came back with different names to only post another racist remark.


At some point it became clear that some do not know they do not know they are racist. Others know they are racist and think they should be permitted to voice their racism and feign upset for being called racist.

=============================================================



Fox News disabled the comments section of an article by the Associated Press about President Barack Obama’s 17-year-old daughter, Malia Obama, after readers flooded the post with racist comments,
calling her a racial slur, an “ape,” a “monkey” and accusing her of not
deserving her entry to the university but getting it thanks to “Black
privilege.”



“Obama Is Muslim” Conspiracy


Throughout his presidency, Barack Obama was dogged by rumors that he was not an American by birth. Instead, the “birthers”—as the people spreading this rumor are known—say that he was born in Kenya


The president has been portrayed as a shoeshine man, an Islamic
terrorist, and a chimp, to name a few. The image of his altered face has
been shown on a product called Obama Waffles in the manner of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben.


The depictions of Obama as ape-like have arguably sparked the most
controversy, considering that blacks have been portrayed as monkey-like
for centuries to suggest that they’re inferior to other groups. Still,
when Marilyn Davenport, an elected official in the Republican Party of
Orange County, Calif., circulated an email portraying Obama and his
parents as chimps, she initially defended the image as political satire.

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Delilah66

Toby, thank you for the link to our real President’s speech. She certainly nailed our faux POTUS. Unfortunately, the hopes of those voters looking for a kinder, gentler trump were unrealistic. His supporters just don’t care.


“Now, I know some people still want to give Trump the benefit of the doubt.

They hope that he will eventually reinvent himself – that there’s a kinder, gentler, more responsible Donald Trump waiting in the wings somewhere.“

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Del Phinium

Delilah66

"Toby, thank you for the link to our real President’s speech"

Hillary's speech?! LOL! No, Dems aren't in denial and trying to undo the 2016 election at all, lol!

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Stan Areted

Delilah66:

"Toby, thank you for the link to our real President’s speech."

And they say there is no Trump Derangement Syndrome?

Hillary Clinton is NOT President of the United States.

Hillary Clinton LOST her bid to win the presidency of the United States.

DONALD J. TRUMP beat her at her own game.

Hillary Clinton IS A LOSER that doesn't know how to lose graciously.

Neither do most of her supporters.

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HU-885118952

Del, Dems are trying to take away the vote of millions of Americans in 2020.

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HU-885118952

Hillary Clinton IS A LOSER that doesn't know how to lose graciously.

Neither do most of her supporters.

This^^!!!

Hillary was and still is, the ring leader. But to elucidate further, it was her henchman, Podesta, who started ALL of this.

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Stan Areted

Where is that little Johnny Podesta these days?

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Del Phinium

HU-885118952

"Del, Dems are trying to take away the vote of millions of Americans in 2020."

BUT, BUT, BUT.... THE "POPULAR" VOTE!!!

LOL! Fine. It's official: The NE Patriots beat the Eagles in Super Bowl 52 because they got "more yards." Forget about the "score"! Who cares about that?! Congrats on another ring, Tom Brady! Time to rewrite the history books!

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Stan Areted

LOL! Fine. It's official: The NE Patriots beat the Eagles in Super Bowl 52 because they got "more yards." Forget about the "score"! Who cares about that?! Congrats on another ring, Tom Brady! Time to rewrite the history books!



LOL Del Phinium! Sad thing is, even more young people will believe this tripe that Hillary won and Donald Trump is not officially president because they too, will not understand civics and as we know aas tends with the left, emotions inform just about every opinion on the left, and agenda.

Actually, the democrats have been acting like spoiled little toddlers for years now, particularly Congress.

I would personally pay for an ad that shows Nancy Pelosi with her "prayerful" "dark day" serious impeachment "But, first, sadly, we are solemnly sad, about the solemn, sad, solemnness that is this sad, sad, solemn sad day. Sad." with her subsequent gleeful impeachment signing ceremony and passing out pens and her fist bumping in a television interview and speaking to President Trump on the Bill Maher Show by saying "you are impeached forever" with a smirk on her face. Yea, sad, prayerful, right?

This is what losing does to people when they are not good people to begin with.

Chuck Schumer is another, so hypocritcal, he has to look like he's doing something so he's attacking Mitch McConnell for doing his job. Which of course Schumer wants.

Schumer couldn't shine Mitch's shoes in the leadership department, and I'm not a Mitch fan. I am more now, however. Pelosi stamped her foot and he ignored her.

That's how it's done when you have right on your side, Nancy.


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zmith

Wow, Delilah really struck a nerve!


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Stan Areted

Gee, now the left is trying to do memes.

Maybe they will do better with it than winning the Presidency.

Keep trying!

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Ziemia(6a)

Yep - she struck a nerve. So much for getting it.

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Ann

Another old hippie here! I grew up into a responsible conservative.

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Ann

"Toby, thank you for the link to our real President’s speech."

I guess she wants to see the world through some kind of interesting lens:) Lol, each to their own, freedom of thought and all that. You know, that's one way to view the world if the real world isn't to one's liking. It must be kind of confusing watching a SOTU address or watching the actual President board Air Force One, but I guess the imagination is a wonderful thing:)

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Stan Areted

I smile every time I hear President Trump giving a press conference, doing his job.

I smile every time I think about Hillary stumbling in the woods with a glass of wine, muttering I won I won I won.

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Rina

I also smile at my delusions, sometimes. Like a world in which the American right wing goes back to being sane.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

I like sunsets too.

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queenmargo

I like Pina Coladas in the rain.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

I like pruning fruit trees when it's 30 outside.......well, not really, but someone has to do it......ta-ta

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zmith

And the taste of champagne.

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ubro(2a)

Del, Dems are trying to take away the vote of millions of Americans in 2020.

Well if a leader turns out corrupt do you think you should keep them just because he/she managed to hoodwink a bunch of voters? I don't.

Sometime leaders show their true colours as time passes and standing in defence of one who becomes corrupt, just because he was voted in, is a dangerous precedent.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

Sometimes voters show their true colors as time passes, too. I'm horrified at the vast number of voters that remain no more than vaguely aware of what is going on politically in this country. And that includes people from the entire range of political leanings.

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Toby

"Trying to take away our votes" is just the latest political attack that they are trying to roll out. Maybe Trump supporters are stupid enough to believe that but they're not fooling the Dems.

Trump should've respected your votes instead of jeopardizing his presidency by asking foreign governments to help him find dirt on his political opponents. He knew it was an impeachable offense because he had just been cleared of collusion the day before when Mueller testified.

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lurker111

No, we know that it isn't a crime to seek dirt on a political opponent. The crats proved that.

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Stan Areted

He didn't try to "seek dirt" on a political opponent

He SAW dirt, a possible crime, associated with a former vice president's family member, associated through and with the vice president and because of his position, and wanted to investigate it prior to handing more money to an already corrupt government that the vice president's son, with no area of expertise experience, was involved with through businesses.

So if someone is running for office you can't investigate them at all?

President Trump was doing the work of the PEOPLE.

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Nana H

"wanted to investigate it prior to handing more money to an already corrupt government "

I posted this as part of another post on a different thread but it fits.

"Did he really think a corrupt government he could not trust to use the foreign aid properly would conduct a fair investigation of someone who just happens to be a political rival of the man sitting on their aid?"




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HU-699631886

Sondland , the mega republican donor, testified under oath that trump did not care about corruption in the Ukraine. He only cared about getting Zelinski to announce an investigation into the Bidens.

I know that your news sources are lying to you and telling you something different.

Maybe try a different news source?


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Annie Deighnaugh

So if someone is running for office you can't investigate them at all?

SMH...

So the thing the gop blames hillary for with the steele dossier is the same thing the gop excuses trump for with ukraine & russia...even though trump has done it more bigly, illegally and multiple times....

[click to enlarge]

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Toby

If Trump wanted to investigate Biden he had an Attorney General and a DOJ to do that. He sent his personal attorney because it was for his personal political benefit.

If Trump saw signs of corruption in the Bidens, why wasn't there an official investigation by the GOP AG and DOJ at the insistence of the President? You know the answer--because there was no corruption.

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Toby

Oh, and let's not forget the testimony from several of our diplomats--Zelensky didn't have to actually investigate the Bidens. He was only required to ANNOUNCE an investigation.

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Toby


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Ann

"He SAW dirt, a possible crime, associated with a former vice president's family member, associated through and with the vice president and because of his position, and wanted to investigate it prior to handing more money to an already corrupt government that the vice president's son, with no area of expertise experience, was involved with through businesses."

Yup, and I hope we eventually learn about not only that, but the Biden siblings as well!

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Ann

"You know the answer--because there was no corruption."

Biden corruption? Oh, come on!

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lurker111

He sent his personal attorney because it was for his personal political benefit.

Wrong. There is more than one investigation going on in Ukraine, but they probably will cross paths.

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Kathy

No area of expertise or even security cleared but negotiating with foreign dignitaries? Biden or Jared?

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Kathy

Ukraine is investigating Giuliani. Our own DOJ shirked his responsibility.

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Rina

Toby, yes, I loved that bit about announcing an investigation into Biden. What Trump wanted was the cloud hanging over the head of the front runner in the Democratic party nomination race. What jolly fun tweets he could have sent out. Uh, duh, as the kiddies say.

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Kathy

Parnas said it was always about getting Ukraine to announce an investigation into the Bidens.

My opinion is once Trump could them to announce an investigation they could take the info Putin got from the Burisma hack and add to it whatever lies they wanted and run with it in the media.

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elvis

My opinion is once Trump could them to announce an investigation they could take the info Putin got from the Burisma hack and add to it whatever lies they wanted and run with it in the media.

Okaaay…

(Backing away slowly)

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Kitchenwitch111

Yup, and I hope we eventually learn about not only that, but the Biden siblings as well!

And the Trump siblings!!

And Rudy's son, who works in the White House, along with Bill Barr's son-in-law.

And Moscow Mitch's wife, who is making big bucks off her post by funneling work to her family business.

So much to look into!!

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Isn't it funny how we keep being subjected to baseless assertions about the wrongdoing of people who just happen to threaten the political chances of our president and his GOP majority?

And isn't it funny that so many of these false, even slanderous, allegations - which are treated as fact by GOP boosters - have been proven, or turned out to have been, perpetrated by our president and his cronies, some even admitted to and bragged about?

Same old playbook - accuse your opponent of that which you have done or are doing, as if nobody will ever notice. One way to get away with bad stuff is to act like you've done nothing wrong and even talk about your wrongdoing openly. This is classic con-man behavior. People see someone behaving confidently, not acting guilty, so they think that person must be innocent.

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lurker111

lol

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Nana H

It blows my mind that rational people can actually believe that Trump asked a government he believed too corrupt to handle aid properly to conduct a fair investigation into the political rival of the person holding back their aid.

How does that thought process work?

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Perhaps because he never ever believed that?

Every explanation, every justification of this has been post hoc.

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Annie Deighnaugh

And if his primary purpose was corruption, why did he never mention it in his "perfect call".

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