Warren 2 Sanders After Last Night's Debate: '.You called me a liar..'

catkinZ8a
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catkinZ8a

Why did FNN release this audio?

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althea_gw

Because the whole act by CNN/Warren was staged?

That is the most common explanation. I love that the act was interrupted by the only billionaire onstage who wanted to say "hi" to Bernie.

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catkinZ8a

Staged. Mmmmm K.

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mrskjun(9)

Seems that CNN has decided to be the vehicle that takes Bernie out of the running. Sorry Bernie Bros, you had to know the party wasn't about to let him get the nomination.

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elvis

Why did CNN release it? Because poor Tom Steyer walked right into it.

And then there was a witness. They chose to just let it out before it leaked out.

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catkinZ8a

Such irreparable damage being done to the Leftist Dem party from top to bottom.

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catkinZ8a

Did you see the Impeachment Articles Funeral Procession today?

Quite the dirge.

Priceless!

Even the WA POO described it as a rare and bizarre ritual.

THEN, Needles Nancy gleefully fist bumps colleagues and hands out pens like Halloween candy.




Walk of Shame: Democrats Hand Over Impeachment Articles to the Senate


The impeachment hoax is big on drama and short on substance. Earlier on Wednesday, Speaker Pelosi lied about what the president said during his July 25th phone call with the leader of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, and then she ripped a line from the mob movie "The Irishman" to vilify the president as some sort of mobster looking to hire a hit man. Later in the day, when the speaker signed two articles of impeachment, she was all smiles as she handed out ceremonial singing pins traditionally used to celebrate landmark policy victories, like President Trump's signing of the phase one trade deal with China earlier in the day. And we're supposed to believe Pelosi when she says this is a "sad day for America." Even a CNN panel couldn't ignore the "jarring" glee with which the speaker took in the supposedly sad and tragic moment for the country.

Democratic House Clerk Cheryl Johnson led the newly appointed impeachment managers down the long halls of the nation's capitol -- at least, they seemed long given the lethargic speed at which the cast of characters moved. The moment was designed to allow the liberal media every opportunity to announce what a "historic" and "sobering" moment the Democrats' walk of shame supposedly meant to everyone. Setting the scene, Pelosi declared, "Today, we will make history. When the managers walk down the hall, we will cross a threshold in history."

The only threshold being crossed by the Democrats is the one establishing a tradition in this country where the party of power in the White House impeaches a duly-elected president over absolutely nothing, pointing to no actual crimes that took place, especially not any mentioned in Section 4 of Article Two in the Constitution, where the founders went out of their way to define the types of crimes for which civil officers could be impeached. Indeed, it is a sad day for the country, but not for the various reasons espoused by Democrats and the media. The real abuse of power was done by House Democrats, and the real obstruction has been carried out by Democrats ever since they pledged their allegiance to "the Resistance."


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/01/15/walk-of-shame-as-democrats-dramatically-walk-impeachment-articles-to-the-senate-n2559596

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numbersjunkie

Townhall? Lol.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

It seems to me Bernie must have said Warren could not win the 2020 election against Trump, not an election in general. Why didn't Warren clarify that? Bernie clearly weaseled on the statement.

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elvis

That makes sense, Zalco.

I thought this was unfair to Bernie:

MODERATOR: You’re saying that you never told Sen. Warren that a women could not win the election.

SANDERS: That is correct.

MODERATOR: Sen. Warren, what did you think when Sen. Sanders told you a woman could not win the election.

WARREN: I disagreed.

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althea_gw

"Staged. Mmmmm K."

Remember when the former presidential candidate Kamala Harris brought up Biden's record on bussing during an earlier debate on MSNBC? That is widely believed to have been staged.

If true, it means that the networks have made a complete mockery out of presidential debates. The American people deserve much better.


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foodonastump

I’ve been assuming he said “something” that he feels she misrepresented. I suppose he could clarify but that would just open the door to more potential criticism and debate. Why bother..

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lurker111

I don't know why Warren was so upset. She is a pathological liar, and a complete joke.

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foodonastump

I’m sure the irony is intentional.

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lurker111

Irony???

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Nana H

I know it's such a hoot as is the parrotting of FOX taking points about CNN trying to take down Bernie.

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althea_gw

"I’ve been assuming he said “something” that he feels she misrepresented. I suppose he could clarify but that would just open the door to more potential criticism and debate. Why bother.."

Foodonastump, Bernie responded to the accusation right away:

"Sanders told CNN in "an aggressive, on the record pushback" that the claims were absolutely false. Kristen Orthman, the Warren campaign's communication director, on the other hand, declined to comment for the story by CNN political correspondent MJ Lee.

"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders told CNN. "It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016.""

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/13/ludicrous-sanders-refutes-claims-made-anonymously-sourced-hit-piece-cnn-about-warren

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queenmargo

People only hear what they want to hear.

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lurker111

Why is she so concerned? She loves to lie because the truth is very depressing for her. She's known for her lies, and nothing else.

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mrskjun(9)

FOX talking points? Do you not watch CNN? Every pundit reported it as truth that Bernie said a woman couldn't be president. Why? Did they have someone in the room when he said it? Warren has lied over and over again. I've never heard anyone accuse Bernie of lies, yet CNN reports over and over that he did what Warren claims even though he vehemently denies it. So yeah, CNN is doing the DNC's dirty work for them. Who knows, maybe they are even slipping Warren some debate questions.

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foodonastump

Althea - Yes he denied that he said a woman couldn’t beat Trump. From your quote he doesn’t specify whether he said something of a similar nature which she may have misconstrued. Might he have said he didn’t think she could win? Who knows. That’s one of a handful of possibilities I could imagine being twisted around.

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foodonastump

Lurker - Yes irony. And it continues.

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lurker111

I just don't see it.

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foodonastump

Of course not. I actually believe you.

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Ziemia(6a)

LOL

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mudhouse

Rolling Stone's Matt Taibi has a very thorough article on CNN's decision to take out Bernie in this debate:

CNN's Debate Performance Was Villainous and Shameful
The 24 hour network combines a naked political hit with a cynical ploy for ratings


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/january-democratic-debate-2020-cnn-bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-938365/

This time, the whole network tossed the mud. Over a 24-hour period before, during, and after the debate, CNN bid farewell to what remained of its reputation as a nonpolitical actor via a remarkable stretch of factually dubious reporting, bent commentary, and heavy-handed messaging.

If the network doesn’t see trouble in this, it’s delusional. Voters on both sides of the aisle have changed since the Bernard Shaw days. They pay more attention to media manipulations, and it doesn’t get much more manipulative than punching above the facts to advance transparent political narratives, which is a new and accepted habit in the commercial news landscape.

We’ll find out in Iowa and New Hampshire what Democratic Party voters believe about that Warren-Sanders meeting, but that grimy story pales in comparison to the bigger picture: Episodes like this are why people hate the media.

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Cookie8

"Because the whole act by CNN/Warren was staged?"

You know, I think this may be true. Pathetic that this is all turning into a gossip session over platform of the candidates. None of their key points making the news but this is front and centre?

"MODERATOR: You’re saying that you never told Sen. Warren that a women could not win the election.

SANDERS: That is correct.

MODERATOR: Sen. Warren, what did you think when Sen. Sanders told you a woman could not win the election.
WARREN: I disagreed."

Elvis, I am copying what you posted to use.

What is the moderator doing or trying to do? Well, I guess we kind of know considering "journalism" nowadays from the MSM.

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queenmargo

Perhaps CNN was looking for some excitement to give them ratings??

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mudhouse


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foodonastump

Trump should like CNN more. They helped him win 2016 and now they’re working on 2020. Almost makes you wonder whose side they’re on. 🤔

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queenmargo

Bernie may never know what part of the country really supports him. Seems he is sabotaged by his own party again.

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queenmargo

I think ALL candidates should be asked the same question and given a minute or thereof to respond. Not the moderator changing the wording to put a biased spin on it. Not asking certain questions to certain candidates and giving some candidates more time.


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haydayhayday

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Journalism_Review

"The Columbia Journalism Review (CJR) is an American magazine for professional journalists that has been published by the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism since 1961. "

Hay

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mudhouse

https://www.cjr.org/innovations/measure-media-bias-partisan.php

We Can Probably Measure Media Bias, But Do We Want To?

Thanks Hay. That's a good, even-handed article, and well worth reading. My two cents is, both sides would be better off if they at least tried to read opinions from a variety of sources, instead of slamming the door after a five second identification of bias.

Tip: if it feels disloyal to read articles "from the wrong side", try tricking yourself by thinking it's wise to keep an eye on the enemy. I've done that, and I wound up accidentally learning some good things in the process.

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Ann

Haven't read this thread yet, but this moment was great. The debate was so boring, but I did laugh when I saw this exchange. I wonder if those two have sorted it out yet?

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haydayhayday

Warren is a liar.

She lied when she said during the debate that she and Bernie were friends!

Big Fat Lie!

She lied in her famous "study" about healthcare and bankruptcies. All you know is the headlines. Ever look closely at the study? In the words of Tom Papa... "I have".

Her whole life story is a lie. Her brother agrees.

She's a liar.

Bernie got that right.


Hay

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Ann

"Bernie may never know what part of the country really supports him. Seems he is sabotaged by his own party again. "

Man, it's becoming crystal clear how hard they are trying to sabotage him again, but I'd guess his supporters will come out in a huge way and fuming mad. Honestly, I wouldn't blame them one bit. If we think we saw disgruntled Bernie supporters in 2016, I bet that will be nothing compared to how they'll respond this year!

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Oh those 2 should sort it out easily in no time. If Ted Cruz and Trump can kiss and make up after the fisicos of .....my wife is prettier than yours, and your daddy helped assassinate JFK, ......then anything is possible.

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Nana H

That certainly is what Trump and his supporters want and they are working very hard to do just that.

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mudhouse

Possibly vgkg, but Bernie's been burned before, and repeat wounds usually don't heal as easily the second time around.

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haydayhayday

vgkg!!!

Good to see you.

Hay

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Ann

Nana, the DNC, superdelegates, and Dem elite don't ever need one bit of help with putting their thumbs on the scale. They're experienced at it and known for it. That is one huge lesson Dems could learn from Republicans. We don't have superdelegates and we do "let" the voters decide. Dems do a fine job of digging their own grave when it comes to controlling their elections and angering voters. To borrow a term of yours, they "own" that tactic.

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catkinZ8a

DES MOINES, IA—After a Bernie Sanders organizer waxed poetic over the beauty of gulags and the need for reeducating the people, Sanders clarified that his gulags will actually be democratic gulags.

"These aren't your regular, totalitarian, Soviet gulags -- not that there's anything wrong with that -- these are democratic gulags," he said in a clarifying speech. "We vote on the prison camps so it's not like a nasty dictatorship thing."

He then sent a memo to his staff reminding them that the gulags weren't supposed to be revealed until phase 2 of his plan.

Sanders was reportedly angered and disappointed at the staffer who let the cat out of the bag in a video released by Project Veritas.

"Remember, we start with promises of free stuff, then we throw everybody in the gulags once we're in office," an exasperated Sanders said to a group of his campaign volunteers gathered backstage at last night's debate. "It's a total bush league move to talk about the gulags, mass starvation, and millions of deaths before phase 2 kicks in."

"Come on, people -- stick to the playbook."

The presidential candidate instructed his staffers to stick to talking points like free healthcare, free internet, free Krispy Kreme donuts, and to avoid any talk of the gulags the Sanders campaign has had elaborate plans drawn up for since the day Sanders announced his candidacy.

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woodnymph2_gw

Hi, vgkg. Good to hear from you!


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lily316

No, it wasn't Fox who broke the story but it was Fox who ran with it over and over again to keep the Parnas bombshell news from the cult. Neither is my favorite candidate so it will play out.

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althea_gw

Foodonastump, there is no point in speculating about what was said because we don't have any witnesses or evidence like a recording. I believe Bernie because of his long history of championing women's issues and women in politics.

Here is a video clip of him talking to a group of 3rd graders in 1987.

https://twitter.com/pjayevans/status/1216826375744737280

As far as how this has affected his campaign, Bernie gave a campaign update last night. This is from the update:



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foodonastump

Lily - I’m not so sure. Looking at Fox and CNN’s mobile front page, it’s fifth picture down. Hardly to be found on Fox. Just an opinion piece, well below even some woman’s weight loss story.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

As someone who has been vacillating for months between supporting Warren or Sanders, I view the minor dust up during the debate as having little importance.

I liked that Warren shifted the focus to the women candidates.

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kadefol

I think the overblown response to this is a ploy to pit Sanders and Warren - and their respective supporters - against each other, in order to be able to nominate (and gain votes for) Joe Biden, who has made quite few worse remarks than Sanders.

IF they manage to do this, hub and I are going to vote for Biden, even though we don't like him, because there is no way we are voting for Trump. But I would really resent us having to vote for the "lesser evil" yet again and I think the DNC and RNC are both corrupt beyond repair and need to be completely restructured.

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haydayhayday

By my rough calculations Bernie, IF he gets the Democratic Nomination in comparison to other candidates IF they get the Democratic Nomination, stands the best chance of beating Trump.

https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3633/Who-will-win-the-2020-Democratic-presidential-nomination

https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3698/Who-will-win-the-2020-US-presidential-election

If you want to beat Trump, Bernie is the MAN for the job.

Hay







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queenmargo

If you want to beat Trump, Bernie is your MAN.

Would socialism beat capitalism?????

nah nah nah.... nah nah nah....



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catkinZ8a

CNN leaked the audio/video.

Wake up.

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haydayhayday

Hay:

"If you want to beat Trump, Bernie is your MAN."

Margo:

"Would socialism beat capitalism?????

nah nah nah.... nah nah nah...."

You want to bet? How much?

Right this moment? If Bernie gets the nomination and runs against Trump, I'll take Bernie. You take Trump. How much?

Hay

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kadefol

By my rough calculations Bernie, IF he gets the Democratic Nomination in comparison to other candidates IF they get the Democratic Nomination, stands the best chance of beating Trump.

I wish the DNC would see it that way. We, and many others, would vote
for Bernie, no doubt. I hope it does not turn into another "it's his
turn" situation like the DNC did with Hilary Clinton. It doesn't matter
whose turn it is, it matters who can beat the candidate the party wants
to beat.

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catkinZ8a

Satire is becoming more and more believable, lol.

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haydayhayday

Interesting that Elizabeth didn't just say, "you called me a liar". She added, "on National TV".

Breaking the code of honor. We can call each other liars, but, let's keep it to ourselves Not on National TV.

Bernie agreed and walked away.

Hay

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queenmargo

Right this moment? If Bernie gets the nomination and runs against Trump, I'll take Bernie. You take Trump. How much?

You made the bet, you make the "how much"?

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elvis

Sanders told CNN. "It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.

Imagine what that must be like: staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened.

Oh, wait...

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althea_gw

I forgot to write in my last post ......

Hi Vgkg!

Just yesterday I was thinking about "knowing" a handful of people year for almost 20 years.

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Ann

"As someone who has been vacillating for months between supporting Warren or Sanders"

Well, I think one will remain for much longer than the other. But, since your primary is early, I expect you'll get the choice between the two in your primary.

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catkinZ8a
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Ann

Hayday, interesting bet. Good thing you didn't offer that bet to Margo in 2016, because she correctly called that election. Not too many did, but Margo got it right - and she placed her bet many months before the election, without ever wavering. I thought she was making a crazy bet.

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HU-885118952

Liz Warren is a snake. Her wide-eyed, mid-western, pretty blonde-haired and blue-eyed innocent act really fooled me.

She set up Bernie by leaking their private conversation.

She not doubt knew it would come up during the debate. She knew he'd defend himself.

She went after Bernie at the end, on a hot mic, and then accused him of calling her a liar on "national tv", after she leaked about him being a misogynist.

Don't turn your back on that gal!

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queenmargo

and she placed her bet many months before the election, without ever wavering. I thought she was making a crazy bet.

Ann, I did waver the night of the election results, *hanging head*... I listened to the polls and felt sure it was over. I went to bed to cover my head;(

Then what to my wondering ears did I hear,

Trump won the election, and I had nothing to fear;))

It was a Christmas miracle! LOL

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lily316

Warren was never my favorite. Some in my family are Bernie bots. Of the two, I prefer Bernie. Interesting that Hay thinks Bernie could beat trump. I prefer him over Biden but as I said... I'd vote for my cat if it meant no more trump. And his name IS Bernie...lol

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HU-885118952

kadefol

I
think the overblown response to this is a ploy to pit Sanders and
Warren - and their respective supporters - against each other, in order
to be able to nominate (and gain votes for) Joe Biden, who has made
quite few worse remarks than Sanders.

IF they manage to do this, hub and I are going to vote for Biden,
even though we don't like him, because there is no way we are voting for
Trump. But I would really resent us having to vote for the "lesser
evil" yet again and I think the DNC and RNC are both corrupt beyond
repair and need to be completely restructured.

I think this was Warren's idea, because she sensed the response of the media would be to get behind her and her identity politics. It's a ratings no-brainer.

That said, if this kerfuffle never came to fruition, I think Biden will still be the likely candidate. I think Biden's name recognition and being Obama's VP will garner more votes than any stumping or promoting of other candidates by the MSM.


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Cookie8

"Foodonastump, there is no point in speculating about what was said because we don't have any witnesses or evidence like a recording. I believe Bernie because of his long history of championing women's issues and women in politics."

Again...totally agree. I don't know why there is so much worry over Sanders. He won't be allowed past the primaries. He is so popular but not with the people he needs to be popular with. He should have gone third party.

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queenmargo

Lily, you can write in and cast your vote for your cat. Sounds like a good idea to me;)

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

"Ann, I did waver the night of the election results, *hanging head*... I listened to the polls and felt sure it was over. I went to bed to cover my head;( "

Don't feel bad margo, a lot, aaa looot, of demos, indies, and repubs classic voters felt the exact same way. In their minds too - No chance that trump could win, none at all, would America do that to itself they asked? No Way! So they opted to hit the grocery store on the way home on election evening rather than wasting their time voting...That ain't happening again, Nooooo Way.

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queenmargo

I don't believe that vgkg. A true voter would vote.

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queenmargo

That would be like me not voting just because I think Trump is a shoe in. That ain't happening . NOOOOOO way;))

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HU-885118952

Again...totally agree. I don't know why there is so much worry over
Sanders. He won't be allowed past the primaries. He is so popular but
not with the people he needs to be popular with. He should have gone
third party.

I think as in 2016, Bernie's in it to win it, and no one running third party will be President. But, it would be interesting if Warren got he nomination and Bernie was a 3rd-party candidate who siphoned votes off her.


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HU-885118952

queenmargo, agree. True voters vote.

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Cookie8

"But, it would be interesting if Warren got he nomination and Bernie was a 3rd-party candidate who siphoned votes off her."

Yes, just a far off scenario of "What if?".

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queenmargo

I think as in 2016, Bernie's in it to win it, and no one running third party will be President. But, it would be interesting if Warren got he nomination and Bernie was a 3rd-party candidate who siphoned votes off her.

That would be poetic justice, if Bernie kept a woman from being President, lol.

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HU-885118952

Just again watched the debate question put to Bernie and Warren about him allegedly saying a woman couldn't win. After Bernie denies it, the moderator asks what Warren's response to Bernie was (a YEAR ago during a PRIVATE convo) and predicated Warren's question on exactly opposite of what Bernie just said, and he just had this look of disbelief. But he knows how identity politics works.

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lurker111

Now I understand the record turnout and over votes...A lot of people stayed home. That's logical.

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Ann

HU, it was quite the exchange. The difference in the question asked of Bernie followed by the "how did you feel when he did that" (seconds after he denied doing that) assumption/question directed toward Warren was stunning. I had to pause the TV to say to my husband, "Did you hear that?".

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Cookie8

You know, it all gets worse when you watch CNN's coverage of their gossip. Brutal.

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Ann

Tucker did his opening tonight on the CNN intrusion into the Dem race and the apparent setting up of Bernie. It was brutal to see the CNN clips, one after another. But the good news is, IMO there is no way the Dems will succeed in the Bernie destruction again - even with CNN on board. This time, I think the Bernie supporters will win this battle. I see a Bernie/Trump election as a high probability based on the interference. I don't think voters will stand for this.

If you are a Bernie fan, you might find Tucker's opening tonight informative. I'm guessing it will be available via google soon, if not already.

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haydayhayday

Margo:

"You made the bet, you make the "how much"?"

How much money you got in the bank?

Hay

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haydayhayday

"Would socialism beat capitalism?????

nah nah nah.... nah nah nah...."

Never underestimate the ignorance of the voters.

Chavez was elected twice.

Maduro once.

Still want to bet?

I'm convinced people will happily vote themselves into slavery.

"Man, we got it good. Never have to worry about where our next meal will come from. Our healthcare is taken care of. For free! Just like the Aussies and the Canadians. Always have a roof over our heads. What's not to like?"

Hay

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haydayhayday

Fact remains, Bernie, by the bettor's odds, has the very best chance of beating Trump.

After I'm seeing that's how the bettors are betting, I've been thinking about it more. Biden is so fallible standing there with Trump.

Bernie is a fool, but he tells them that it's free. Over and over. And the voters will believe it. What's not to like about "free"?


Hay

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haydayhayday

vgkg:

"Don't feel bad margo, a lot, aaa looot, of demos, indies, and repubs classic voters felt the exact same way. In their minds too - No chance that trump could win, none at all, would America do that to itself they asked? No Way! So they opted to hit the grocery store on the way home on election evening rather than wasting their time voting...That ain't happening again, Nooooo Way."

I think I basically agree with that. Once bitten, twice shy.

Remember that the betting was that Hillary was a shoo-in. Looking back, very few people were actually excited about Hillary. (I drive a lot and I can remember being so surprised at how few Hillary yard signs and bumper stickers I saw.) Things have changed.

Remember Brexit. It was not going to happen....no way.... So, on the day of the vote, there was a terrible rainstorm across Britain, so the complacent ones, so sure of the outcome, stayed home. The "determined-to-make-it-happen" ventured out.

Hay



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haydayhayday

"After I'm seeing that's how the bettors are betting, I've been thinking about it more. Biden is so fallible standing there with Trump.

Bernie is a fool, but he tells them that it's free. Over and over. And the voters will believe it. What's not to like about "free"?"

I can see the debate now.

Trump: "The Stock Market is up a gazillion percent since I've been President!"

Bernie: "Free this, Free that, Free Everything!"

Who's going to win?

Hay


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haydayhayday

Biden: "Kids would come up to me and play with my hairy legs. Let me tell you about Corn Pop and how I put him down."

Warren: "We now have 785,564 Selfies! Would anyone like to join me on stage for one?"

Hay

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

queenmargo, agree. True voters vote.

What's a "true" voter, is that like a "real" American? When trump loses in Nov then yawl will be back to complaining about the "fake voters" voting.

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queenmargo

OY! a "true" voter would be someone who votes for the privilege they have to vote, regardless of the perceived outcome.

I was not always a "true" voter. I grew up with the mindset that it was "all rigged" so why bother. I have no idea where I got that idea either.


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vgkg (Va Z-7)

I grew up trusting elections and the vote count more so than today where paper trails are sorely lacking around the country and more dependant upon high tech mechanisms which can be hacked. I missed a vote or two while working 2 jobs and attending college but that did not make me any less of a "true voter", just a very busy one. More reason to extend voting to weekends or otherwise make Election Day a national holiday. Now we have 12-13 hours to vote, it's not even a full day.

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haydayhayday


Buttigieg: "Ich bin dein Mann! я твой мужчина! ¡Soy tu hombre! Je suis votre homme! Sono il tuo uomo! Jeg er din mann!"

Hay

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queenmargo

Well vgkg- you said:

So they opted to hit the grocery store on the way home on election evening rather than wasting their time voting...That ain't happening again, Nooooo Way."

I don't think opting to hit the grocery store constitutes being THAT busy.



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mudhouse

OY! a "true" voter would be someone who votes for the privilege they have to vote, regardless of the perceived outcome.

I understand this and agree. I'm one of those who will get up and vote, even when I know my vote won't make a bit of difference. It's still the right thing to do.

One person I knew said there was no point, so he didn't vote. But I also knew he was someone who rarely followed news or politics. I think some people don't vote because they haven't done the work of figuring out where they stand on issues.

This election will have a huge turnout; even some who normally don't get involved in politics have probably had to figure out where they stand.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

"Busy" was speaking for myself some 50 years ago. In 2016 those who were convinced that trump could not possibly win weren't too busy, just wrong in their self assurance..

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woodnymph2_gw

I think it's a pity these two had the dust-up they did in public. Not good optics for the "unity" of the Dem party. Of the two, I think Bernie was the more polite (kept saying "please, not here, later...."). And, given his long record, I believe Bernie would fully support any woman president and those women who aspire to that role.

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althea_gw

I just don't understand why Hay is saying people are no longer betting on Biden.

From the NYT interview with Biden:


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terrene(5b MA)

And, given his long record, I believe Bernie would fully support any woman president and those women who aspire to that role.

Didn't Bernie say during the debate that he would fully support whoever the Democratic candidate ends up being? I assume that means woman or man.

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woodnymph2_gw

Yes, not only did he say that, but I believe him.


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lily316

I believe him too but my husband read to me from his phone last night that Bernie people will not go to the polls if Bernie is screwed over again. (Smart News source) I had certainly hoped they had learned their lesson since them staying home in 2016 contributed to us getting trump.

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haydayhayday

"I just don't understand why Hay is saying people are no longer betting on Biden."

You'd think that anyone who thinks they're smart enought to become President would be smart enough never to eat when the cameras are around.



Hay

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haydayhayday

It's revealing.

I'm able to go all day without eating. I absolutely hate the idea of going on a dinner date. I can't talk and eat at the same time. And you want a nice romantic evening? With or without garlic?

If there's a social gathering that I"m attending and there's food involved, I'll make a point of eating--- "filling up"----before I go.

Nothing like the closeness of a Social Gathering after everyone's had their meal laden with garlic.

Hay

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lily316

Why are there no pics of the fat one shoving in his greasy carp?

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haydayhayday

Lily:

"Why are there no pics of the fat one shoving in his greasy carp?"

One clue is that the Iowa Caucus for the Democratic candidates is coming up soon and they love to show up at the Iowa Fair and eat corn dogs.

You have a problem with fat people?

Hay

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haydayhayday

Hay;

By my rough calculations Bernie, IF he gets the Democratic Nomination in comparison to other candidates IF they get the Democratic Nomination, stands the best chance of beating Trump.

https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3633/Who-will-win-the-2020-Democratic-presidential-nomination

https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3698/Who-will-win-the-2020-US-presidential-election

If you want to beat Trump, Bernie is the MAN for the job.


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Here is a good couple of pictures to help you get a sense of the logic of what I'm saying.


Today, just now:



Joe Biden is favored to win the Democratic Nomination, but Bernie is favored to win the Presidential election.

How can that be?

Ask Reverend Bayes.

Hay

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HU-885118952

haydayhayday

Lily:

"Why are there no pics of the fat one shoving in his greasy carp?"

One clue is that the Iowa Caucus for the Democratic candidates is
coming up soon and they love to show up at the Iowa Fair and eat corn
dogs.

You have a problem with fat people?

Hay

How much time do you have?. Get comfortable.

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haydayhayday

lily:

"Interesting that Hay thinks Bernie could beat trump."

To be precise, Hay is reporting what the bettors think.

Margo, you never answered my question:

How much money you got in the bank?

Hay


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haydayhayday


HU...952:

"How much time do you have?. Get comfortable."

I expect lily will be changing her tune if Sanders becomes our President.

Hay

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queenmargo

Hay- I didn't mean to not answer your question, I didn't see it??

LOL, I am not rich, so I can not sell the farm, but how about a reasonable bet ?

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queenmargo

Hay, didn't the bettors think Hillary would win in 2016 too?

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queenmargo

So Hay, not the bettors, but YOU, do you think Bernie could win Trump. YOU personally.

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haydayhayday

Margo:

"Hay- I didn't mean to not answer your question, I didn't see it??

LOL, I am not rich, so I can not sell the farm, but how about a reasonable bet ?"

I'm in it for the money. But, in your case, remember this thread if we get there. Just for fun between you and me.

"Hay, didn't the bettors think Hillary would win in 2016 too?"

Yep. You could have sold the farm and made a fortune.

Hay



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althea_gw

I think Hay pretty much exhausted the possibilities of the corn dog quote.

Surely this one will convince the bettors to change their minds.

(The NYTimes edited the paragraph to explain that the phone was placed there by an aid to record the interview.)


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haydayhayday

"So Hay, not the bettors, but YOU, do you think Bernie could win Trump. YOU personally."


When it comes to bets, I try very hard not to let my emotions get involved. I personally think, as things stand right now, Bernie has an excellent chance at becoming our President.

If, right now, we had the 2020 election and IF Bernie were, one on one, going against Trump, I'd bet Bernie with anyone giving me 50/50 odds.

Wouldn't hesitate.

Hay

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haydayhayday

I actually am one to learn from history.

Repeating from above:

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

"Never underestimate the ignorance of the voters.

Chavez was elected twice.

Maduro once.

Still want to bet?

I'm convinced people will happily vote themselves into slavery.

"Man, we got it good. Never have to worry about where our next meal will come from. Our healthcare is taken care of. For free! Just like the Aussies and the Canadians. Always have a roof over our heads. What's not to like?"

Hay

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queenmargo

As much as I fear the socialism that Bernie would bring, I think I would like to see this match. It would be interesting.

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Ann

Margo, I agree! I also think it would be a very interesting match. I'm beginning to think it a quite likely match too.

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haydayhayday

Be careful what you wish for. If it gets to that point....where Trump and Bernie are on the same stage,,,just like I said above,


////////////////////////////////////


"I can see the debate now.

Trump: "The Stock Market is up a gazillion percent since I've been President!"

Bernie: "Free this, Free that, Free Everything!"

Who's going to win?"

Hay

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queenmargo

I hear you Hay, like I said I fear the socialism, but I actually would like to see where the country is at.

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haydayhayday

"I hear you Hay, like I said I fear the socialism, but I actually would like to see where the country is at."

You're not going to like it.

Venezuela or Bust!

Hay

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queenmargo

So Hay, if Bernie ends up on the stage with Trump, are you going to pull out of the stock market?

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haydayhayday

Margo:


"So Hay, if Bernie ends up on the stage with Trump, are you going to pull out of the stock market?"

If the bettors around the world see that Bernie has a good chance of becoming President, then the same bettors will have shown up in that big betting market we call the stock market. The result will have already been priced in.

I don't "play" the stock market. I rarely trade. It's a loser's game. I generally try to stay diversified. No matter what, I likely will survive. I don't think I'm much better than random at predicting what the stock market will do.




Hay


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althea_gw

"I actually am one to learn from history.

Repeating from above:

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

"Never underestimate the ignorance of the voters.

Chavez was elected twice.

Maduro once.

Still want to bet?

FDR, who many consider one of the all time greatest U.S. presidents was elected 4 times.

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haydayhayday


althea:

"FDR, who many consider one of the all time greatest U.S. presidents was elected 4 times."

See what I mean, Margo?


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haydayhayday

Althea:

"FDR, who many consider one of the all time greatest U.S. presidents was elected 4 times."

I know of people who lived during the FDR era and danced on the night he died.

Many consider him to be the beginning of the end.

Hay


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haydayhayday

Back to Hay and Betting:

"If the bettors around the world see that Bernie has a good chance of becoming President, then the same bettors will have shown up in that big betting market we call the stock market. The result will have already been priced in."

Which, in this particular case with the betting-Bernie vs. Trump-RIGHT THIS MOMENT, by my VERY ROUGH calculations,

IF I wanted to make the bet I'm proposing to you, the odds are 70% that Bernie would win. That's already priced into the betting market!!!!!

(With a huge margin of error on my part).

I'm willing to take your bet at 50/50, but I'm not rushing in to possibly make 30 cents and lose 70 cents if Bernie loses in such a race.

If you give me an edge, I'll take the other side of pretty much any bet. It's how bookmakers do business.

Hay



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haydayhayday

The current betting.

When and if HeartAttackBernie wins the election and dies the next day....

Finally, we'll have a woman for President...

Or a gay person.

Coming in via the back door.



Hay

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Stan Areted

haydayhayday:

I know of people who lived during the FDR era and danced on the night he died.

Many consider him to be the beginning of the end.

Many people thought his New Deal was going make everything better after the Depression. Usually these were people that couldn't see into the future.

For an interesting and informative read about FDR and the New Deal, I recommend NEW DEAL OR RAW DEAL? How FDR'S Economic Legacy Has Damaged America by Burton Folsom, Jr.


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haydayhayday

Interesting.

Who won the Democratic Debate last Tuesday?



A smart man?

Let the losers fight it out and I'll come in and clean up the mess?

Hay

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Ann

Some on HT have opined they don't think Trump will want to debate the Dem nominee. Dang, if the nominee is Biden, I hope they have a weekly debate.

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Nana H

Biden would wipe the floor with him on substance and policy. Trump would definitely beat him in insults and lies.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Trump won't be able to use some of his past debate lines, such as "You're the Puppet".

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queenmargo

LOL Biden will wipe the floor, lol lol lol

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Nana H

No question in my mind when it comes to substance and policy.

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queenmargo

Sorry, for doubting, with such a good track record of predictions.

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Ann

I agree Margo. Biden won't even remember the state, in which the floor he stands on, is in. Then, each of his so called sentences will be about two mispronounced words from 10 different unrelated sentences, strung together in one long garbled mess. If the discussion is foreign policy, he'll say Iceland when he means Iran because, after all, they both start with "I".

Those who support him will claim he's struggled his whole life with a serious stutter and underneath it all, he's really totally with it; and how dare anyone criticize his debate performance when they know darn well, he has that lifelong handicap.

ETA: Wait, I forgot to add, he'll also end each segment as quickly as humanly possible with, "I know my time is about up.".


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Ann

"Sorry, for doubting, with such a good track record of predictions."

Bingo!

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queenmargo

Biden will try to come off so tough when and if he goes against Trump. It will work against him. Or he will just concede his time LOL LOL

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Ann

Or, he'll just give up and challenge Trump to a push up contest.

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queenmargo

Well, that one he might win, LOL

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Nana H

"Sorry, for doubting, with such a good track record of predictions."

I dunno, I did pretty good on the Muller report, the Horowitz report , Trump' s infrastructure fold and the China deal. Yeah , I blew the 2016 election when everyone else had it right........how dumb of me.

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Ann

"I believe him too but my husband read to me from his phone last night that Bernie people will not go to the polls if Bernie is screwed over again. (Smart News source) I had certainly hoped they had learned their lesson since them staying home in 2016 contributed to us getting trump."

I noticed this comment a day or two ago and have thought of it from time to time. Honestly, if Bernie people did not show up to vote (if Bernie is screwed over again), you couldn't really blame them. The DNC and its control thing over voters is simply unforgivable. They did not go far enough in eliminating superdelegates. The need to be eliminated altogether, and the DNC was clearly unwilling to give up their control.

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Ann

Don't want to take too long right now, but I found this (from Sept.) very quickly. Most people did have this one right:)

"Boris is going down in flames if there is a snap election..."

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Nana H

"Boris is going down in flames IF there is a snap election..."


BTW Boris did not call a snap election in September....and it didn't take long to find in your " dossier". You've used it before.

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Ann

"I dunno, I did pretty good on the Muller report"

"I suspect the charges thus far are just low hanging fruit that he needs to "flip" in order to bring other charges including collusion/conspiracy and obstruction .

All in good time but it is clear Mueller is being very methodical as he peels the onion"

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Nana H

Which is exactly what happened in terms of the investigation. He flipped several key witnesses and peeled the onion back layer by layer.

You will recall that I said on several occasions that I did NOT believe Trump would be charged with conspiracy but was less certain about obstruction. The fact Mueller would choose not to bring charges on obstruction because of DOJ policy was an unknown at the time. However, he most certainly laid out the obstruction case.

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haydayhayday

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) said at Tuesday's Democratic debate in Iowa that the women onstage were the only ones undefeated in every election they had run in.


“The men on this stage have lost 10 elections,” Warren said while noting that she and Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) have won all their elections."


The bettors are saying that Elizabeth Warren and Klobuchar are going to be getting their comeuppance very soon.


Welcome, Elizabeth, to a very elite group!




Hay

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Ann

IMO, normal conversation on HT is very similar to real life and has a great deal to do with getting to know posters, and responding to each with that knowledge taken into consideration. Some posters are better at predictions than others. Some like polls, others find them worthless. Some deliver comments as their opinion, others deliver their opinions as fact. Some read and provide current sources, then deliver comments based on those; others just toss out random stuff and assume that stuff will stick or be believed. Some write very crude comments, others don't cross that line. Some are very judgmental and get as personal with their judgements as they can - sometimes crossing the rules line and other times sitting right on it. Some are tough and good in debate, others are defensive.

We're all different in our styles and we all get responses based upon our well known styles. Frankly, based on these differences and unique styles, I find it easy to take an educated guess about how many a comment is intended, interpreted and responded to. I also notice lots of consistency in the reaction of many toward several long time posters on the forum. In other words, I don't think styles/tactics/toughness/sensitivity remain a secret. We all have our "reputations". These attributes are noticed (by many) over time spent on the forum. That's what happens when people get to know each other.

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queenmargo

Some place themselves above the fray.

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HU-885118952

Ann

Don't want to take too long right now, but I found this (from Sept.) very quickly. Most people did have this one right:)

"Boris is going down in flames if there is a snap election..."

That, and Brexit.

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Nana H

I " predicted " nothing on Brexit.

I don' t understand why my " predictions" are so special compared to others " predictions" which are frankly nothing more than opinions.

As Ann says in her sermon, we all have styles. The fact one may not like anothers style in expressing their opinions is no reason to constantly be at them. It's something else and we all know it.

Stick up the topics and leave the personalities out of it.

ETA ....appologies to all who have to scroll by these off topic distractions. I never start them but I do sometimes feel obliged to respond to them which just prolongs it ...which is my bad.

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queenmargo

The exit on the subject usually comes about now.

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queenmargo

ETA ....appologies to all who have to scroll by these off topic distractions. I never start them but I do sometimes feel obliged to respond to them which just prolongs it ...which is my bad.

One p.

See, more above the fray.

Who are you obligated to?

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Nana H

Obliged and obligated are not synonymous.

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queenmargo

OK who are you obliging?

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queenmargo

So Nana- are you seeing my point with your comments?

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Nana H

No Responding and initiating are very, very different although I do kick myself for taking the bait. You started this with a totally needless, unproductive post. Ann piled on and stupid me bit.

ETA Be assured it will never happen again. When the tag team comes out to play my response will be..".whatever " and the thread can continue with the conversation that was intended.

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queenmargo

OK ...whatever ;)

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queenmargo

But for the record, I am glad that the prediction that Trump would never be in the Oval Office was wrong, I imagine "others" are not.

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Stan Areted

Repeated declarative statements are not predictions.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I'll say it for you, Nana.

Whatever.

Kate

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haydayhayday

There's a lot of very unflattering images of Buttgieg eating out in the internet world.

It seems to a thing with him. Poor fella. It'll haunt him if he continues in politics.

No body looks good chomping down on food. He's particularly bad at it.

They all have their flaws.

Al Sharpton has the trick: Orders toast and doesn't eat it.


Hay

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Ann

Oh yuck, that's kind of disgusting Hayday. I think you're convincing me about the politicians eating in public thing.

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althea_gw

""FDR, who many consider one of the all time greatest U.S. presidents was elected 4 times."

I know of people who lived during the FDR era and danced on the night he died.

Many consider him to be the beginning of the end.

Hay"

Hay, the people who voted to elect him president 4 times probably were not among them.

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althea_gw

Almost forgot ....


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haydayhayday

Althea:

"Hay, the people who voted to elect him president 4 times probably were not among them."

No doubt. Absolutely no doubt. I don't argue that point.

Just to repeat my post from above:


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

"Never underestimate the ignorance of the voters.

Chavez was elected twice.

Maduro once.

Still want to bet?

I'm convinced people will happily vote themselves into slavery.

"Man, we got it good. Never have to worry about where our next meal will come from. Our healthcare is taken care of. For free! Just like the Aussies and the Canadians. Always have a roof over our heads. What's not to like?""

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Hay

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haydayhayday

"Free this, free that, free everything."

It has lured many a fool to the rocky shores and their death.

Hay


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elvis


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