Why Ambassador Yovanovitch was moved out of Ukraine so quickly

THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Parnas and crew were actively tracking Yovanovitch's movements.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20200114_-hpsci_transmittal_letter_to_hjc-_new_evidence_attachment.pdf


from former congressional candidate Robert Hyde to Lev Parnas, about his surveillance of Ambassador Yovanovitch



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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)







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catkinZ8a

What was she hiding?

Stay tuned.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)


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Annie Deighnaugh

She was a well-known corruption fighter. It's not what she was hiding...it's why they wanted her out...because they couldn't work their biden lies and threaten Pres. Z. with her as a watch dog.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

It is now clearer than ever we have an international crime ring centered in the White House.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Reminder that Yovanovitch testified that UKRAINIAN officials warned her that Guiliani and other associates “had plans, and that they were going to, you know, do things, including to me”.

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Annie Deighnaugh

and trump can't have it both ways...he can't say on the one hand he has no idea who parnas is and on the other block releasing information or his testimony due to executive privilege.

From just the little bit we've seen so far, one can only imagine what the wh is hiding. But all of it just adds logs to the fire of the obstruction of congress charge.

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petalique

Lev Parnas’ lawyer, Joseph A. Bondy.


And Parnas was texting back and forth with GOP donor and congressional hopeful, Robert F. Hyde <—— a very peculiar character. “Big Imagination.” Odd. There are a few psychological terms that might best describe his state, level of ________, and penchant for attention seeking, off the main road drama.


Bondy’s Twitter—

https://twitter.com/josephabondy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Nice slide show of Lev Parnas with Donald Trump many different times, and with Trump family members.


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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Parnas needs to testify under oath.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

@davidwbrown

The documents from Parnas are STUNNING.
However bad we imagine it could be, it was way worse.
They were stalking and implying bringing harm to a US Ambassador.
Giuliani spelled out he was meeting on Trump’s personal behalf.
No sitting Senator can possibly claim this was OK.

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Annie Deighnaugh

"They are willing to help if we/you would like a price....

...Guess you can do anything in the Ukraine with money...."

Outrageous!

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Please let them have hit bottom!

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petalique

Annie Deighnaugh

"They are willing to help if we/you would like a price....

...Guess you can do anything in the Ukraine with money...."

Outrageous!

~~~~~

Absolutely outrageous. Trump and Giuliani and Corrupt mobster Ukrainians know some extreme criminals.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Triggering info apparently.

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leona_2008

If I read that from a known mobster, I would assume they were looking to have her killed.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Mimi Rocah

@Mimirocah1

As a former mafia prosecutor, this sure sounds like a mob hit was being planned on a public servant in a foreign country by associates of the POTUS. A POTUS who said she was “going to go through some things.” This takes Trump’s lawlessness & misogny to new level.

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cattyles

Thank you for starting the thread, THOR. Even after everything we’ve been through, this is shocking.

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cattyles

Robert Hyde sure sounds nice in that link petalique posted. Sarcasm.

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cattyles

Disgusting men willing to commit despicable crimes against our nation, covering for trump no matter what it takes.

And a distinguished, honorable woman of integrity was made to fear for her safety because her mission to help Ukraine fight corruption was in their way.

How dare trump say “she’s going to go through some things” as if he was discussing the weather.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Ted Lieu

@tedlieu

Dear@SecPompeo: Are you going to stand up for@StateDept employees like Marie Yovanovitch? Or are you going to continue to obstruct justice and mind numbingly suck up to@realDonaldTrump? You have a spine somewhere. Try to find it.


Bianna Golodryga

@biannagolodryga

Let’s revisit the unconscionable treatment of Marie Yovanovitch. Her reputation was smeared by lies, she was attacked by the President, followed, threatened & professionally sidelined. Yet not a peep from Pompeo in defense of the country’s highest ranking female diplomat.


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cattyles

This is shameful. Look at what happens when a person like trump gets power. Think of all those that were corrupted as easily as shaking hands. They will never again have their reputations. The USA will likely never regain our same standing in the world.

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elvis

It is now clearer than ever we had an international crime ring centered in the White House in the prior administration.

FTFY, thor.

I've been looking forward to using "FTFY", Delilah, thanks to your post on the Biden, Buttigeig, etc thread:

Delilah66

"He sets the pace, they react."

"He sets the stage, they buy the tickets." FTFY

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Annie Deighnaugh

The thing I don't understand is, she's an ambassador and serves at the pleasure of the president...why go through all this? Why not just fire her as he did with other corruption fighters such as preet bharara or all the senior leaders in the FBI or even sessions?

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Izzy Mn(4)

We keep hearing about the mobster ways of Trump and the blatant corruption going on and it just floors me. How can this keep happening. How can our elected officials let this continue. How can they sleep at night and keep promoting and protecting him. Then next thought, what do we not know about.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Can the president be charged with RICO crimes?

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Annie Deighnaugh

So which came first? Parnas wanting an investigation into biden or trump wanting it?


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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Former Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, through her lawyer, is calling for authorities to investigate whether her movements in Ukraine were indeed being monitored as Robert Hyde suggested in the text messages released tonight.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Lev & pals.


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matthias_lang

I just want to provide a new link for the exchange in the OP because it was too blurry for me to read here and the link to the House Intelligence Committee did not work. The exchange in the OP is found starting at the bottom of page 19.https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20200114_-hpsci_transmittal_letter_to_hjc-_new_evidence_attachment.pdf

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cattyles

I was just going to post that one too, matthias.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I do hope they investigate this further...it involves too many high-level people including president's lawyers seculow and dowd...where was pompeo on this and why wasn't he protecting his people...president's personal lawyer rudy...russian connections with lev and igor...and what was pence's involvement?

Just look at what happened when the ukraine scandal broke? perry resigned; bolton resigned; morrison, expert on russia on the NSC resigned; matthews resigned; chewning, defense sec'y chief of staff resigned.

And let's not forget that lev and igor are charged with illegal campaign contributions....and we have no idea of the financial relationship between rudy and lev and igor...money seemingly flowed both ways, though rudy did get a big paycheck from them to the tune of $500,000.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Who would ever have thought that a New Jersey casino owner would have so many gangster associates?

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cattyles

Pompeo is lowlife scum. The whole lot of them are nothing but a big bag of steaming manure.

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cattyles

All of this doesn’t even bring his domestic mob ties into the equation.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

*RUDY*

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Chi

Chilling...implication for the US ambassador to be killed because Trump didn't like her.

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bob_cville

So this seems to be saying that Giuliani at Trump's behest was planning on doing harm to a US Ambassador? Isn't that similar to the reasons Team-Trump gave as justification for "taking out" the Iranian General? That he was allegedly planning or coordinating or something attacks on Us Embassies?

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Delilah66

"Chilling...implication for the US ambassador to be killed because Trump didn't like her."

It wasn't that he didn't like her. He was just "spring cleaning," mob boss that he is.

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Annie Deighnaugh

The other thing is rudy's letter to Pres z saying he is trump's agent on personal matters...so when trump is talking to Pres z and telling him to talk to rudy, that makes it clear that this biden thing isn't about ukraine corruption at all, but trump's personal political aims in the upcoming election.

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Delilah66

Yep, Annie, exactly what has been said over and over. Who will deny it or refuse to even read it? Eyes closed/fingers in ears/lalala. But Obama and my 409.

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petalique

The trump gang are operating a racket. Racketeering. Many criminal gigs going.


And there is absolutely no executive privilege that is operational for criminal activity. Also, if, in working with others — like Hyde, Parnas, Fruman, Rick Perry— Rudy communicated details of Trump’s shakedown plan for Zelensky (and we can see that he did), “executive privilege” has already been breached. YES. That is the reason Rudy was so quick to later claim Parnas and Fruman as working for him as he represented Trump. But, a good lawyer would present evidence, the move came too late.


And, note, it was the public CNN-like outlet announcement , not so much any investigation. The announcement of Ukraine doing an investigation into Bidens would be a publicized, lasting smear. A taint.


This scheme all came directly from POTUS45, Donald Trump.


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petalique


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petalique


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petalique

Giuliani was trying to get the former, corrupt Ukraine prosecutor Shokin a US visa. Shokin pro Putin, pro Manafort and his Ukraine buddy, Yanukovych who had to flee to Russia (with millions).


The criminality and corruption run wide and deep with Trump gang. Mobsters. Goes back a long time.


Yanukovych

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych

Viktor Shokin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

I've wondered for some time what would be too much for the Trump supporters here to defend, and have hoped that conspiracy to commit murder would be the sticking point. I see no rush here to defend Trump and that gives me a very slight reason to hope. Time will tell.

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petalique


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petalique

Remember how Michael Cohen said Trump never gives direct, plain spoken orders; he just refers to something obliquely and sort of nods his head. Mobster style.



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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

This is too freakin' creepy, even for Trump's mobster incarnation.

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lurker111

She was part of the corruption in Ukraine. I guess the crats didn't pay attention to the bogus unconstitutional impeachment attempt.

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ohiomom

I am sure that Parnas and Hyde are coffee boys ...

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lurker111

Joe's confession really made the crats go Ukraine insane. They're all busted and they know it.

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Nana H

The SDNY refused to comment about whether they are investigating this. I can't imagine for a moment that they are not.

We still come back to the question as to why Trump would use his personal attorneys , and some shady actors , to ask a country he believed corrupt to investigate an American citizen rather than use his own DOJ.

Did Trump believe that a corrupt country would conduct a fair investigarion when he didn't t even trust them to use the aid money properly ?

Why would Trump ask his personal lawyer, some shady actors AND a wannabe Congressman to work on the removal of the ambassador when he could have easily directed Pompeo to do it ?

I think the answer is clear. He was using personal and non government agencies because he was doing it for his own personal political reasons and not for reasons that were in the interests of the United States


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Delilah66

Did all this documentation come from parnas? What a crowd of fools!

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Delilah66

Insane is right lurker.

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lurker111

She was a nasty anti Trump lunatic and needed to go. If she supported Trump, the left would be trying to get her for anything they could dream up.

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paprikash

At this point, what does it matter

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Annie Deighnaugh

The SDNY refused to comment about whether they are investigating this. I can't imagine for a moment that they are not.

Simple...the SDNY report to barr...it's all on him whether he's going to be trump's consigliere and stop it, or if the's going to try to be more of an AG for the American people and let it proceed. So far, from what I've seen, it could go either way.

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lurker111

At this point, what does it matter

We've seen the last of her.

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Annie Deighnaugh

At this point, what does it matter

And there you have it boys and girls, the ultimate defense of trump.

He can shoot someone in the middle of 5th ave and the response will be:

At this point, what does it matter...

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

At this point, what does it matter


They have their 409.

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Annie Deighnaugh

The dems are going to need a lot of 409 to clean up the mess once trump is out.


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paprikash


At this point, what does it matter — well, it’s not like any Americans begging for help were killed

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Annie Deighnaugh

I'm going to save that one...the next time trumplicants bring up hillary or obama, I'll pull that line...

at this point, what does it matter.

Goose & gander.

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Annie Deighnaugh

it’s not like any Americans begging for help were killed...

And there you have it...it's only American lives that matter...Ukrainian lives? Not so much.

Need I mention over 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico? Nah...trump rescued them by throwing rolls of paper towels at them.

At this point, what does it matter, right?

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Nana H

It is baffling to me how anyone can be accepting of this type of behavior by their President.

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Annie Deighnaugh

And let's not forget this one...

"But he's a killer," O'Reilly said to Trump [about putin]. "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?" Trump replied. He continued, "I think our country does plenty of killing also..."

At this point, what does it matter, right?

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

If 15,000 lies were not enough, what would be?

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paprikash

I guess i misquoted Hillary shrew.

The correct words are :

· "What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?"


Same difference, however, and applicable.

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paprikash

Annie — the Ukrainians got their money (our money) — more than Obama ever gave them. Where was your concern when Obama did nothing for them

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Living rent free still.
_________

How do you get the idea that changing the subject is a statement on the original argument other than "I don't want to talk about it"?

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Del Phinium

I guess i misquoted Hillary shrew.

The correct words are :

"What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?"

Exactly, Paprikash. And that used to be a perfectly "acceptable"excuse. But now, the shoe's on the other foot and their heads are exploding

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lurker111

He can shoot someone in the middle of 5th ave and the response will be:

At this point, what does it matter...

But, if he fires someone who hates him and has no business working for him...watch out!

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Kathy

Trump put a target on her back. That cannot be denied.

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lurker111

lol. Trump fired her and had every right to do so.

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leona_2008

I think someone may have already said this up thread but it bears repeating, what else is there that we don't know? Here we have evidence that suggests someone was considering murder. Giving the benefit of the doubt to trump, guiliani, et al, that that was not their intention -- never mind that trump could have just fired Yovanovitch at any moment without cause -- all it would have taken was one person eager and willing to kill to have taken her life. Where is the clarification from guiliani that that was not what they meant? We could be talking about the actual death of Yovanovitch here. What else is there that we don't know?

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leona_2008

Where is the evidence that Yovanovitch hated trump??? Why didn't trump fire her from the git-go? Why was it necessary to put her life at risk???

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

"Parnas needs to testify under oath."

Yes, before the Senate, and have Giuliani be Trump's lawyer questioning Parnas. After his questioning they can then switch places on the stand.

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paprikash

These are random people who don’t speak for Trump.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Where is the evidence that Yovanovitch hated trump?

Their "evidence " is that anyone who even appears critical of trump it's because they hate him. Just an excuse, not evidence.

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Annie Deighnaugh

paprikash, obama did help ukraine: By March 2015 the US had committed more than $120mil in aid and an additional $75mil worth of equipment. And another $200 mil in 2016 to fight corruption and improve energy security. Obama also provided political backing to ukraine against russia...something trump was withdrawing and using as a threat against Pres. Z unless he came up with a biden investigation.

Moreover obama put sanctions on russia for attacking ukraine in the first place...those very sanctions that russia, with trump's help, is now trying to get lifted.

IAC:

a) it wasn't on trump to decide whether or not to give the military aid to ukraine...it was Congress' decision...he was supposed to administer that aid and instead used it to strong arm Pres Z and violated the law in so doing which got him impeached.

b) these "yeah but obama" comparisons presume that information and conditions have remained unchanged for 5 or more years. They haven't. Different conditions require a different response.

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Kathy

Robert Hyde, a new GOP involved with Parnas and Giuliani. New documents show the connection to Trump.

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Annie Deighnaugh

And let's not lose sight on trump re putin and ukraine from 8/1/2016:

Donald Trump said Sunday that Russian President Vladimir Putin won't make a military move into Ukraine -- even though Putin already has done just that, seizing the country's Crimean Peninsula.

"He's not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He's not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it anywhere you want," Trump said in an interview on Sunday with ABC's George Stephanopoulos on "This Week."

"Well, he's already there, isn't he?" Stephanopoulos responded, in a reference to Crimea, which Putin took from Ukraine in early 2014.

Trump said: "OK -- well, he's there in a certain way. But I'm not there. You have Obama there. And frankly, that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama with all the strength that you're talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this. In the meantime, he's going away. He takes Crimea." https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/index.html

And then of course he tweeted trying to clarify that he didn't actually make such a stupid comment when he did.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Frankly I think pelosi should hang onto the impeachment even longer and re-open the investigation in light of this new information...certainly moscow mitch is never going to let any serious investigation go on in the senate...instead they'll turn it into a hunter biden circus...

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Trump said: "OK -- well, he's there in a certain way. But I'm not there. You have Obama there."

His half a brain melts into goo when confronted with blatantly obvious facts and reality.

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zmith

This whole scenario where Trump and Guilliani may have conspired to commit murder is just mind-boggling! The sad reality is whatever wrongdoings have taken place, teflon Don will probably get away with it.

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Chi

I'm so glad things like this are coming to light. Let the world see what trash Trump is.

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Annie Deighnaugh

These are random people who don’t speak for Trump.

No they don't speak *for* him but they have worked for him and with him and can testify as to what was said and done in their interactions with him and the work they did for him. Let's not forget John Dowd...trump's attorney to whom trump gave permission for him to represent lev and igor... wrote this:

I wouldn't consider that 'random'.

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Annie Deighnaugh

We need to get clarity on the money too...lev apparently paid rudy $500,000 but then rudy also paid lev? We know lev received $1 mil from the russian mobster Firtash...

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

"I'm so glad things like this are coming to light. Let the world see what trash Trump is."

It won't matter to those who like/love Trump even more as he continuously grows into a overloaded landfill.

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leona_2008

Telling the truth = hating trump.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

We need to get clarity on the money too...lev apparently paid rudy $500,000 but then rudy also paid lev? We know lev received $1 mil from the russian mobster Firtash...

Add to that Rudy's butt dialing for dollars call needing a couple of hundred thousand more from his buds in Bahrain.

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leona_2008

I think we are seeing what people have to tell themselves.

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Chi

"It won't matter to those who like/love Trump even more as he continuously grows into a overloaded landfill."

There's no hope for his most passionate supporters, but I think they are in the minority. There are far more who maybe like him but aren't willing to ignore everything he does. Those are who I'm hoping will hear about Guiliani associates Parnas and Hyde discussing putting out a hit on the ambassador.

Pelosi was brilliant in waiting and letting all this new information come to light before the trial.

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dandyfopp

^

Precisely.


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chipotle

Damn! You ignore the news for 18 hours and all hell breaks loose.

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Chi

Good summary from the Washington Post about why this is such a big deal, even ignoring the horrific implications against Ambassador Yovanovitch:

Americans who have been wondering why President Trump has taken the extraordinary step of trying to block every document from being released to Congress in his impeachment inquiry need wonder no longer. The new documents released Tuesday evening by the House Intelligence Committee were devastating to Trump’s continuing — if shifting — defense of his Ukraine extortion scandal, just days before his impeachment trial is likely to begin in the Senate.

These new documents demolish at least three key defenses to which Trump and his allies have been clinging: that he was really fighting corruption when he pressured Ukraine on matters related to the Biden family; that Hunter Biden should be called as a witness at the Senate impeachment trial; and that there’s no need for a real, honest-to-goodness trial in the Senate.

The documents released Tuesday show what Trump has been so afraid of. For starters, they prove that his already-eyebrow-raising claim to have been fighting corruption in Ukraine was bogus. Notes taken by Lev Parnas — who is an associate of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani and is now facing federal criminal charges — show what his and Giuliani’s mission was when they got in touch with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky: “get Zalensky to Announce that the Biden case will Be Investigated.” Look hard at the real goal here: not to prompt an investigation of Hunter Biden, but to score an announcement of a Biden investigation. Pursuing an announcement, rather than an investigation, makes sense only if Trump’s objective was to dirty the reputation of Joe Biden, a leading political rival....

But that’s not to say there’s nothing to learn at a genuine Senate impeachment trial — which, as the word “trial” suggests, features actual evidence and witnesses. That’s the third point emerging from the documents released Tuesday night. One of those documents shows how important it might be to have such witnesses testify before the Senate. The document is a letter from Giuliani to Zelensky when he was Ukraine’s president-elect. It begins: “I am private counsel to President Donald J. Trump. Just to be precise, I represent him as a private citizen, not as President of the United States.” The letter then requested a meeting with Zelensky. This letter is a devastating indication of what has been clear to many all along: that Trump’s pursuit of an announcement that Ukraine was looking into Biden was an abuse of his public office for personal gain. That’s what this letter sure seems to be saying. And it makes clear that what was afoot had nothing to do with law enforcement or Biden’s possible corruption — it wasn’t a request from the official “President of the United States” but from a “private citizen.”

The letter is so damning to Trump that we can foresee the president claiming during an impeachment trial that Giuliani was lying — back then, and even still today. That’s where Senate testimony can prove crucial. There’s a reason the Supreme Court has called live testimony, including cross-examination, “the greatest legal engine ever invented for the discovery of truth.” Put Giuliani on the witness stand — and Trump, too, if he has the guts. And let the truth come out.

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lurker111

Pelosi was brilliant in waiting and letting all this new information come to light before the trial.

lol

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Joaniepoanie

I was hoping she would hold one of the Articles. Even so, as one pundit put it:

Nancy’s playing chess.....Trump’s eating the chess pieces.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Or as borowitz suggests, the dems should require giuliani be trump's defense attorney! What a hoot!

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Kathy

Pelosi said Time has been their friend and it has. The truth will eventually come out.

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chipotle

Lev Parnas breaks his silence as he and his lawyer sit down with Rachel Maddow tonight.

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petalique

Another figure mentioned in Lev Parnas’s jotted notes is Zlochevsky, former (very corrupt) owner of Burisma who worked hand in hand with the former administration (pre-Zelensky) and the former corrupt pro Putin prosecutors, Shokin and L.

It was this group of corrupt officials and oligarchs that Trump, Giuliani, Parnas, ?Barr and others were working with and attempting to put back in power as they worked to smear and remove legitimate, honest anti-corruption officials such as Ambassador Yovanovitch and (weaken) President Zelensky.

edit for clarity

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petalique

Here are a couple of older articles with lots of good detailed information. In the spirit of Fair Use for discussion purposes, I share these.


  1. https://theintercept.com/2019/09/25/i-wrote-about-the-bidens-and-ukraine-years-ago-then-the-right-wing-spin-machine-turned-the-story-upside-down/


I Wrote About the Bidens and Ukraine Years Ago. Then the Right-Wing Spin Machine Turned the Story Upside Down.

James Risen


September 25 2019, 9:54 a.m.

It’s strange to see my journalism twisted, perverted, and turned into lies and poisonous propaganda by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, and their enablers. But that’s what has happened to a news story I wrote four years ago.

In 2015, I wrote a story for the New York Times about Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, and Ukraine. Many observers now seem to think this suddenly hot story came out of nowhere this year, but that is not true.

The truth behind that story has been lost in a swamp of right-wing opposition research, White House lies, and bizarre follow-up stories. Now it appears that the Biden-Ukraine story will play a role in a new impeachment inquiry against Trump, amid evidence that he sought to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky by withholding U.S. aid unless Zelensky agreed to investigate the Bidens.

On Wednesday, the White House released a summary of the July conversation between Trump and Zelensky, in which Trump told the Ukrainian leader to work with Attorney General William Barr and Giuliani to find out what happened between the Bidens and a Ukrainian prosecutor. “There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great,” Trump told Zelensky, according to the summary. “Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it … It sounds horrible to me.”

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced Tuesday that the House will launch an impeachment investigation, and the whistleblower who complained about the Trump-Zelensky call to the intelligence community inspector general is seeking to testify before Congress. Thus, just months after the completion of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into whether Trump and his campaign colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election, Congress will investigate whether Trump sought to pressure another foreign leader to help him win the 2020 presidential race.

With so much now at stake, I thought it would be useful to revisit my original story and in the process, separate the truth from the gathering lies.

In December 2015, I was an investigative reporter in the Washington bureau of the Times. That month, I published a story reporting that Vice President Joe Biden had just traveled to Ukraine, in part to send a message to the Ukrainian government that it needed to crack down on corruption.

But I also wrote that his anti-corruption message might be undermined by the association of his son Hunter with one of Ukraine’s largest natural gas companies, Burisma Holdings, and with its owner, Mykola Zlochevsky. Zlochevsky had been Ukraine’s ecology minister under former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, a pro-Russian leader who had been forced into exile in Russia.

Hunter Biden had joined the board of Burisma in April 2014, the same month that British officials froze Zlochevsky’s London bank accounts containing $23 million. Britain’s Serious Fraud Office, an independent government agency, was conducting a money-laundering investigation and refused to allow Zlochevsky or Burisma Holdings, the company’s chief legal officer, and another company owned by Zlochevsky access to the accounts.

But the British money-laundering investigation was stymied by Ukrainian prosecutors’ refusal to cooperate. The Ukrainian prosecutors would not turn over documents needed in the British investigation, and without that documentary evidence, a British court ordered Britain’s Serious Fraud Office to unfreeze the assets.

In September 2015, then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt gave a speech in which he attacked the Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office for failing to cooperate with the British investigation. In his speech — which I quoted in my story — Pyatt mentioned Burisma’s owner by name.

“In the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized $23 million in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people,” Pyatt said. Officials at the prosecutor general’s office, he added, were asked by the United Kingdom “to send documents supporting the seizure. Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result, the money was freed by the U.K. court, and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.”

When Joe Biden arrived in Ukraine in December 2015 to press for more aggressive anti-corruption efforts by the government, Hunter Biden’s role with Burisma made his father’s demands, however well-intentioned, appear politically awkward and hypocritical. That was the point of my story. I quoted Edward C. Chow, who follows Ukrainian policy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, who said the involvement of the vice president’s son with Zlochevsky’s firm undermined the Obama administration’s anti-corruption message in Ukraine.

“Now you look at the Hunter Biden situation, and on the one hand you can credit the father for sending the anticorruption message,” Chow said. “But I think unfortunately it sends the message that a lot of foreign countries want to believe about America, that we are hypocritical about these issues.”

In fact, Hunter Biden has been the black sheep of the Biden family for years. He was the younger son who could never live up to the example set by his older brother, Beau, an Iraq war veteran and the attorney general of Delaware who died of brain cancer in 2015, cutting short a promising political career.

In 2014, Hunter Biden was discharged from the Navy Reserve after testing positive for cocaine use. He had also been involved in a hedge fund with his uncle, James Biden, Joe Biden’s brother, that went bad in the face of lawsuits involving the Bidens and a business partner.

Hunter Biden was the family millstone around Joe Biden’s neck, the kind of chronic problem relative that plagues many political families. George H.W. Bush had his son Neil; Jimmy Carter had his brother Billy.

Still, when Joe Biden went to Ukraine, he was not trying to protect his son — quite the reverse.

The then-vice president issued his demands for greater anti-corruption measures by the Ukrainian government despite the possibility that those demands would actually increase – not lessen — the chances that Hunter Biden and Burisma would face legal trouble in Ukraine.

When it first was published, my 2015 story seemed to have little impact, other than to irritate Joe Biden and his staff. It ran inside the print edition of the Times, not on the front page.

But somebody obviously read my piece, as well as others like it, because questions about the Bidens in Ukraine suddenly came roaring back this year. Giuliani, Trump, and their lackeys began spreading the false accusation that Biden had traveled to Ukraine to blackmail the government and force officials to fire the country’s chief prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, to derail an investigation into Burisma.

In May, when this issue began to surface, The Intercept’s Robert Mackey wrote an excellent piece debunking the lies in the new pro-Trump version of the Biden story. In the process, he provided greater detail than I had included in my 2015 story. He wrote that Shokin had been forced from office at Biden’s urging because he had failed to thoroughly investigate corruption and stifled efforts to expose embezzlement and misconduct by public officials. Biden did threaten to withhold $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees unless Shokin was ousted. But that was because Shokin had blocked serious anti-corruption investigations, not because he was investigating Burisma.

=~_~_~_

This and the following article give a lot of detail and history necessary to understand who’s who and to clarify, set straight the many lies, excuses and fabrications put forth by Trump, Giuliani and others.

You might want to copy it.


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chipotle

Fox probably hasn't bothered to mention it.

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petalique

And, a second article, also very comprehensive and necessary to help untangle the volumes of misdirection, deceit and malfeasance coming from Trump, Giuliani and Republican or pro-trump operatives.

Again, in the spirit of fair use for discussion purposes (and because our democracy is in peril):


But please, go to the Intercept and read this and many other good articles.

2) Part A

https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/


A Republican Conspiracy Theory About a Biden-in-Ukraine Scandal Has Gone Mainstream. But It Is Not True.

Robert Mackey
May 10 2019, 5:52 p.m.

Viral rumors that Joe Biden abused his power as vice president to protect his son’s business interests in Ukraine in 2016, which spread last week from the pro-Trump media ecosystem to the New York Times, are “absolute nonsense,” according to Ukraine’s leading anti-corruption activist. That evaluation is backed by foreign correspondents in Kiev and a former official with knowledge of Biden’s outreach to Ukraine after President Viktor Yanukovych was deposed in a popular uprising in 2014.

In an interview with The Intercept, Daria Kaleniuk, an American-educated lawyer who founded Ukraine’s Anti-Corruption Action Center, expressed frustration that two recent front-page stories in the New York Times, on how the conspiracy theory is being used to attack Biden, failed to properly debunk the false accusation. According to Kaleniuk, and a former anti-corruption prosecutor, there is simply no truth to the rumor now spreading like wildfire across the Internet.

The accusation is that Biden blackmailed Ukraine’s new leaders into firing the country’s chief prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, to derail an investigation he was leading into a Ukrainian gas company that the vice president’s son, Hunter, was paid to advise.

The truth, Kaleniuk said, is that Shokin was forced from office at Biden’s urging because he had failed to conduct thorough investigations of corruption, and had stifled efforts to investigate embezzlement and misconduct by public officials following the 2014 uprising.

Properly debunking this particular conspiracy theory is easier said than done, though, since it is set in Ukraine, a country with byzantine political intrigue at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. The rivalries between political factions in Kyiv are so intense that even the country’s new anti-corruption agencies are at each other’s throats.

There is no question that Biden did, during a visit to Kyiv in late 2015, threaten to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees unless Shokin was dismissed. But the vice president, who was leading the Obama administration’s effort to fight corruption in Ukraine, did the country a favor by hastening Shokin’s departure, Kaleniuk said, since he had failed to properly investigate corrupt officials.

“Shokin was fired because he attacked the reformers within the prosecutor general’s office,” Kaleniuk said, “reformers who tried to investigate corrupt prosecutors.”

——- continues below & at link

Edited4:19 eastern

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Nana H

Just like the deliberate holding back of his security expenses....crickets.

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petalique

Part B (my designation)

of


https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/


A Republican Conspiracy Theory About a Biden-in-Ukraine Scandal Has Gone Mainstream. But It Is Not True

As Andrew Kramer explained in the New York Times when Shokin was finally dismissed in 2016, Biden had acted as the point man for a coordinated international effort:

The United States and other Western nations had for months called for the ousting of Mr. Shokin, who was widely criticized for turning a blind eye to corrupt practices and for defending the interests of a venal and entrenched elite. He was one of several political figures in Kiev whom reformers and Western diplomats saw as a worrying indicator of a return to past corrupt practices, two years after a revolution that was supposed to put a stop to self-dealing by those in power.

As the problems festered, Kiev drew increasingly sharp criticism from Western diplomats and leaders. In a visit in December, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. said corruption was eating Ukraine “like a cancer.” Christine Lagarde, the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, which props up Ukraine financially, said last month that progress was so slow in fighting corruption that “it’s hard to see how the I.M.F.-supported program can continue.”

To illustrate what he called “rot in the prosecutor’s office,” Kramer cited a notorious example, known in Ukraine as the case of the “diamond prosecutors,” in which “troves of diamonds, cash and other valuables were found in the homes of two of Mr. Shokin’s subordinates, suggesting that they had been taking bribes. But the case became bogged down, with no reasons given.”

Among the most prominent cases of official corruption Shokin had failed to pursue was against Yanukovych’s environment and natural resources minister, Mykola Zlochevsky, who had oversight of all Ukrainian energy firms, including the largest independent gas company, Burisma, which he secretly controlled through shell companies in Cyprus. After Zlochevsky was forced from office along with Yanukovych in 2014, his gas company appointed Hunter Biden to its board.

“Shokin was fired,” Kaleniuk observed, “because he failed to do investigations of corruption and economic crimes of President Yanukovych and his close associates, including Zlochevsky, and basically it was the big demand within society in Ukraine, including our organization and many other organizations, to get rid of this guy.”

By getting Shokin removed, Biden in fact made it more rather than less likely that the oligarch who employed his son would be subject to prosecution for corruption.

As the former Reuters correspondent Oliver Bullough explains in his book “Moneyland,” just weeks before Hunter Biden joined the Burisma board in May 2014, ostensibly “to strengthen corporate governance,” Britain’s Serious Fraud Office had frozen $23 million of Zlochevsky’s assets in a money laundering investigation. (Zlochevsky and Burisma have denied all allegations of corruption.) At the time, Bullough writes, “The White House insisted that the position was private matter for Hunter Biden unrelated to his father’s job, but that is not how anyone I spoke to in Ukraine interpreted it. Hunter Biden is an undistinguished corporate lawyer with no previous Ukraine experience. Why then would a Ukrainian tycoon hire him?”

Indeed, hiring the vice president’s son might have seemed to Zlochevsky like a way to protect his business from scrutiny by international investigators. But the facts show that the Obama-Biden administration strenuously opposed the decision by Ukrainian prosecutors to let Zlochevsky off the hook.

Vitaliy Kasko, a former deputy prosecutor who resigned in 2016 and accused Shokin’s office of being a “hotbed of corruption,” told Bullough that he had tried and failed to get his colleagues in the prosecutor general’s office to offer proper assistance to the British inquiry in 2014. But the British investigation was eventually stymied because Ukrainian prosecutors failed to provide a court with evidence that the $23 million — the proceeds from the sale of an oil storage facility Zlochevsky owned via a shell company in the British Virgin Islands — were related to criminal abuse of office by the former natural resources minister.

New reporting from Bloomberg News this week revealed that the 2014 case against Zlochevsky “was assigned to Shokin, then a deputy prosecutor. But Shokin and others weren’t pursuing it, according to the internal reports from the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office reviewed by Bloomberg.”

In December 2014, U.S. officials threatened Ukrainian prosecutors that there would be consequences if they failed to assist the British investigation, according to the documents obtained by Bloomberg. Instead, the Ukrainian prosecutors provided a letter to Zlochevsky’s lawyer stating that they knew of no evidence that the former minister had been involved in embezzlement.

The British investigation collapsed soon after that and the funds were unfrozen and quickly moved to Cyprus.

Kasko, the former deputy prosecutor, told Bloomberg News that there was no truth to the accusation that Biden or anyone in the Obama administration had tried to block the investigation of Zlochevsky. “There was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against Zlochevsky,” Kasko said. “It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015.”

On her center’s website, Kaleniuk has been working to debunk a series of conspiratorial stories about supposed “Ukrainian collusion” in the 2016 election which have recently been embraced and promoted by President Donald Trump, his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and his son, Donald Trump Jr. But Kaleniuk was stunned and annoyed by a New York Times reportpublished last week that focused on how the politics of the accusation against Biden might play. The report failed, in her view, to make it clear that the innuendo was false.

“What I’m pissed off about,” Kaleniuk said, “is that Shokin, who was totally corrupt, who undermined the reform of prosecution, and reformers, and who didn’t want to investigate Zlochevsky, now appears in the New York Times as the hero who wanted to investigate Zlochevsky and Burisma and who suffered because Joe Biden demanded to dismiss him because of his willingness to investigate Burisma — which is absolute nonsense.”

Compounding her frustration, Kaleniuk said, is that she was interviewed for the Times story, but it focused more on the potential harm the anti-Biden conspiracy theory could inflict on his presidential candidacy than on making clear that Shokin was fired because of his failure to properly investigate suspected corruption, including by Zlochevsky. Kaleniuk’s fear — that the Times report would be taken as confirmation that Biden had acted improperly — seemed to be realized by a viral tweet promoting the story from Ken Vogel, the Washington correspondent who wrote it, which claimed that “The BIDENS are entangled in a Ukrainian corruption scandal.”

Kaleniuk was also distressed that the Times report, and Vogel’s tweet promoting it, failed to clearly debunk the false claim that the prosecutor Joe Biden got fired “had opened a case into a company that was paying HUNTER BIDEN.” In fact, Kasko and Kaleniuk noted, Shokin had undermined efforts to investigate the company and its owner.

After he was appointed prosecutor general in 2015, Kaleniuk said, Shokin’s office did formally open another investigation into Zlochevsky, but that was done at the request of the country’s parliament, not the chief prosecutor. A review of court documents by Kaleniuk suggested that the only investigative step taken by Shokin’s office in that case was to transfer the files to another agency.

During Shokin’s tenure, American diplomats in Kyiv publicly complained about the prosecutor’s failure to investigate Hunter Biden’s employer, Zlochevsky, calling in evidence that the Prosecutor General’s Office (known as the PGO) was in dire need of reform.

“We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases,” U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt said in a speech to the Odesa Financial Forum on September 24, 2015. “For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized $23 million in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure. Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.”

Pyatt added that the prosecutors “responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should — at a minimum — be summarily terminated.”

Hunter Biden’s presence on the board of a Ukrainian company suspected of corruption first became a political issue three months later, in December 2015, when his father visited Kyiv and threatened to withhold financial aid unless the prosecutor general was fired for blocking corruption investigations. As James Risen reported in the Times that month, the vice president’s spokesperson insisted that the younger Biden’s business in Ukraine would have no influence over his father’s determination to push for more vigorous enforcement of anti-corruption laws. (Risen is now The Intercept’s senior national security correspondent.)

Although there is no evidence that Joe Biden did anything to shield Burisma from scrutiny, the fact that he failed to dissuade his son from helping to launder the reputation of a Ukrainian company widely suspected of corruption is hardly praiseworthy. The former vice president says that he simply never discussed his son’s business interests in Ukraine, but maybe he should have.

The bad news, for Biden, is that the false nature of the allegation about his role in Ukraine won’t stop Trump and his supporters from treating it like a major scandal, hoping to tarnish the Democrat currently leading the race to face him in the 2020 election. And since the setting for the supposed scandal is a part of the world few Americans have much knowledge of, it could be as hard to refute in the minds of voters as the attack on John Kerry’s Vietnam War record launched by the Swift Boat Veterans in 2004, or the weapons-grade innuendo about Hillary Clinton’s role in Benghazi generated by House Republicans.

As Dan Pfeiffer, a former communications director for President Barack Obama, explained on a recent episode of “Pod Save America” flooding the internet with baseless conspiracy theories can, unfortunately, be good politics. “This is how Trump won,” Pfeiffer said. “Which is: feed conspiracy theories to the base and just throw so much shit around that the folks in the middle say, ‘Well, it’s all confusing, I don’t know who’s right, I don’t have really any way of finding out — certainly the media isn’t capable of telling me — so I’m going to default to my natural expectations which is, both sides are corrupt liars.'”

“And when the public thinks that both sides are corrupt liars,” Pfeiffer added, “that inures to the advantage of the corrupt liar in the race.”

Pfeiffer also criticized Vogel for laying out the conspiracy theory at length before noting that there was no evidence to support it.

—-Continued (a bit more, worth it) at link.

https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/

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zmith

Too busy rah-rahing on the trade deal thread, maybe?

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Kathy

Parnas will be on Maddow tonight.

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chipotle



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Nana H

Likeky FOX , although he is a huge fan of OAN . Whatever he says will be believed and repeated. Well be fun to watch him explain those texts but it will be bought hook line and sinker. Likely more participatory dialogue on this later this evening or tomorrow when they get their talking points .


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chipotle



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zmith

Rudy denies any knowledge of the alleged activities in Parnas' texts.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rudy-giuliani-says-he-has-no-idea-about-efforts-to-track-ex-ukraine-ambassador-marie-yovanovitch/

In a lengthy conversation with CBS News on Wednesday, Giuliani denied
having knowledge of any efforts to keep tabs on Yovanovitch, who was
abruptly recalled from her post amid fears for her safety, according to
her earlier congressional testimony.

"I have no idea about allegations of him tracking her," the former New York mayor said.

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barncatz

This ^^^ seems like a good place for the LOL, indicating derision.

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Chi

Yeah, right. Let's get him on the stand under oath and see if his story stays the same.

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Kathy

These are the documents we see, chances are there are more. Rudy needs to testify under oath.

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zmith

Those handwritten notes could be from anyone. Whatever, Rudy!

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Nana H

The fact the State Department will not comment on this is very telling. There is no question that at the least they should be denying knowledge of this, condeming this or saying they are investigating this...but nothing but crickets

I think Pompeo is trying to figure out how to get out of this with his political a$$ in tact.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Yeah...pompeo was talking of running for the senate and that's off the table now.

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Kathy

Pompeo cancelled a speech today about attacks on the embassies. He might be reassessing what he needs to do personally.

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Annie Deighnaugh

OK...now I see. The desperation to dump Ambassador Y was all due to Lutsenko...he's the former corrupt ukrainian prosecutor that the IMF, biden and others were trying to get rid of. Seems he's the one who wanted Amb. Y out...ticked off that she forced him out of office. What was his leverage? He had the dirt on biden/burisma and would give it to them via the "new" ambassador. Once they got Amb. Y out, he'd give them what they wanted on burisma. Clear quid pro quo there. And that's why they were so interested in taking her out, one way or the other...

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Annie Deighnaugh

Just watching Chris Hayes and one of his interviewees made the point that the corruption around ukraine nat gas has been pushed off the table, but it shouldn't be...it's why perry resigned. Under any other administration, by itself it would be a ginormous scandal, but as with so many other things in this administration, it's just another day in the trump neighborhood.

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Delilah66

Petalique, those are some of the articles I used months ago to develop a synopsis of Burisma and the Biden’s. It was so convoluted I had to condense it to see the timeline.

Burisma and the Bidens


-Mykola Zlochevsky owner of Burisma

-January 2014: UK begins investigation of Burisma re: Zlochevsky’s $24M in British bank thought to be laundered money

-Shortly after February 2014: At request of U.K. Ukraine begins investigating Zlochevsky for embezzling public funds

-Spring 2014: Hunter Biden joins Burisma

-December 2014: US sends letter to Ukraine warning they needed to aid UK’s investigation. Threat went unheeded.

-By 2015, UK forced to release Zlochevsky funds due to lack of cooperation from Ukraine

-February 2015 Shokin becomes Ukraine prosecutor general, claimed Burisma in his sights, but does nothing about Burisma or corruption as affirmed by Shokin’s deputy Vitaly Kasko

-September 2015 US Ambassador to Ukraine says Shokin is subverting UK’s investigation

-By 2016, US officials in Ukraine suggest that Obama administration push to oust Shokin and tie loan guarantees to tougher anti-corruption and remove officials seen as blocking progress.

-March 2016, Joe Biden tells Ukraine loans guarantees would be cut off unless Shokin is fired.

-March 2016, Shokin fired as US required and as supported by G-7, IMF, EBRD


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Delilah66

Rudy denies. Parnas denied, too, until he didn’t.

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petalique

Thanks for the chronology, Delilah. I find time lines like yours very helpful.

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lurker111

Thanks Delilah. You just showed that biden is a criminal. Quid pro quo's and bribery are not part of US foreign policies.

Could you imagine if some country told us that they won't cooperate until we fire some lowly investigator that doesn't have anything to do with the funding?

That bird doesn't fly.

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Kathy

Quid pro quo for personal gain.

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Nana H

Wonder if Barr is doing the same? This is information that the American DOJ must have been aware of for some time. Guess much will depend on how independent the SDNY is.

It is my understanding that they are investigating RG but in matters related to "money". This goes beyond that and I'm not sure itbwould be under the jurisdiction of the SDNY.

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Kathy

Zelensky never made the announcement about investigating Biden that Trump wanted but announces this one. That gives me some hope the investigation by Ukraine might be fair.

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lurker111

Quid pro quo for personal gain.

Exactly.Biden did both...Quid pro joe and bribery. Not legal US foreign policies. Trump said "us" and the crats heard "me". Those simple 2 letter words do a number on democrats.

CNN reported that Ukraine is opening its own criminal investigation
into the apparent stalking and surveillance of former U.S. Ambassador
Marie Yovanovitch.

CNN? lol! They'll never learn.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

The fact the State Department will not comment on this is very telling. There is no question that at the least they should be denying knowledge of this, condemning this or saying they are investigating this...but nothing but crickets

Wrong insect, crickets don't mind daylight.

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zmith

Pompeo and team are busy getting their stories straight.

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lurker111

Trump didn't need a reason to fire her. He could fire her if he didn't like the color of her dress.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Deflect.
__________

Reminder that Yovanovitch testified that UKRAINIAN officials warned her
that Guiliani and other associates “had plans, and that they were going
to, you know, do things, including to me”.

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lurker111

I always deflect from crat propaganda. Probably because it's all garbage. :^)

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Delilah66

"Thanks Delilah. You just showed that biden is a criminal."

I believe you may have made the same or similar comment before, lurker. Are you making any progress toward proving it?

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Delilah66

"Trump didn't need a reason to fire her. He could fire her if he didn't like the color of her dress."

Yes, I believe that has already been stated by the correct party. It's good to see the right agree with us. We thank you for the service.

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lurker111

Why Ambassador Yovanovitch was moved out of Ukraine so quickly

Who cares?

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

Deflect.
Again.

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cattyles

Ukraine is more concerned about the safety of Pompeo’s team than Pompeo.




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bob_cville

Maybe all of the hints of "taking her out" merely meant they wanted to take her out to a nice restaurant, as a surprise. And the following her around was merely to be sure they were selecting one she would enjoy.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

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lurker111

Interesting. The crats are worried that she was followed.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

Followed or Stalked? Not just where she was located but also knowing when she was contacting others on her cell phone and when she was on her computer, isn't as harmless sounding as "followed".

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Delilah66

“ Who cares?”

Somebody.

” The crats are worried that she was followed.”

Yeah, no first amendment rights cover that. Let’s put it in the ERA.

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Kathy

If it was so innocent Ukraine wouldn’t be investigating what happened on their soil. Giuliani is about to find out what another country can legally do when you violate their sovereignty. I’m thinking Ukraine and Zelensky know who their enemies are.

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Kathy

This sounds ominous.

About 13 hours later, Hyde reported back to Parnas: “She under heavy protection outside Kiev.” Then, two days later he said he had “guys” there who could “do” something — and that he now knew Yovanovitch’s whereabouts, and that her phone and computer were off.


Parnas underplayed Hyde’s statement by calling him a drunk. It might be true he’s a drunk but the Implication in the statement is clear.

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Annie Deighnaugh

And parnas has a reason to underplay what hyde was suggesting as he was clearly reporting to parnas. Remember we're hearing from one of the guys who was up to his eyeballs in this affair...he's not going to incriminate himself in these statements...he's just out to get trump & co for abandoning him once he was caught.

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lurker111

lol

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lurker111

This is just more propaganda. If the crats had anything at all, they wouldn't have sent a pack of lies to the senate.

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