Couple flies Nazi flag over Victorian home

shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

An interesting conundrum. Should these people have the freedom of expression to display such an abhorrent symbol? What say you?

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Since it's a hate symbol, I don't think they do. I wanted to add that I don't think it's illegal per se because of Freedom of Speech. So you are right, it's a conundrum. At least the people in their neighborhood know where the a-holds live.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Since Nazis have the right to march in our cities, I can hardly see how you can deny them the right to display their symbol on their property. Defacing someone else's property with a swastika is a crime. There is a big difference between the two issues.

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foodonastump

I guess that’s up to Australian law, not my opinion.

But my opinion is this is the sort of thing we can and do expect to see, as we allow society to lower standards of decency in the name of tolerance and free expression. They will, because they can.

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Delilah66

They should be more woke. Fly the Confederate flag instead like Nazis in Germany, Poland and Sweden. Hold a Dixie-themed festival like they do in Brazil and dance on a carpet of Confederate flags.

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queenmargo

Just who gets to allow the standards of a decent society? Who gets to pick and choose these standards of which you speak Food?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

That flag is a symbol of hate -- no argument about its meaning.

What Australia will tolerate is up to them.

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Delilah66

"Who gets to pick and choose these standards of which you speak Food?"

Yeah, foodonastump. Leave them alone. After all, know your enemy by the flag they fly.

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queenmargo

LOL- you can't answer that question can you?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Society gets to choose it.

The Nazis fought a war to try to earn the right to spread their ideology. The rest of the world said NO and the rest of the world won.

That gives any government anywhere in the world the right to restrict the display of that symbol, and it gives any person anywhere in the world the right to object to its use.

in my opinion

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queenmargo

YES, I can answer.

I believe if it is not against the law the people who own private property should be able to fly any flag they want. You can not take away what people believe as long as they do not cross the line and hurt someone.

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queenmargo

Believe me, if I am looking to buy a house and someone is flying that flag, I would keep on going. No need to even stop at that open house. I would not want them as my neighbor.

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elvis

Argue is what we do. Deflect is your opinion. Shall we argue about that?

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foodonastump

And he has the right to ask if she has an answer or just wants to deflect. Shall we argue about that? Don’t be distracted by the false suggestion that he told someone how to post.

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

I thought the article posted was about the couple in Colorado who flew the Nazi flag. Apparently, it's a "thing". Link

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foodonastump

Shax - While I’m unfamiliar with your laws, here there are laws and ordinances of many types designed to keep neighborhoods livable, hate speech can challenge freedom of expression, etc. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t something they the town government could throw at me, if I were to replace my American Flag with a Nazi flag.

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shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

FOAS...evidently it's still legal here, but there are moves afoot to change that...

"A flag bearing a swastika and other Nazi symbols has been flying for
several weeks in the state’s west, but police can’t take it down.

Residents of the Mallee town of Beulah have made several complaints
to police and the council about a couple in the town who are displaying
the offensive flag above their home.

However, State Attorney-General Jill Hennessy told 3AW Morning’s
Heidi Murphy current laws do not give any state agency the power to take
proactive action against the flying of a Nazi flag.

Currently, The Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001 only
applies to engaging in serious racial vilification, such as inciting
hatred or physical harm against another person or group..."

The Law

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Delilah66

jerzeegirl, that reminds me of the Black Lives Matter advocate, Hawk Newsome, who was allowed to speak at a trump rally and was respected for what he said. There is a lot of sociology behind why his speech was overwhelmingly accepted.





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margaritadina

''

shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)1 hour ago

An interesting conundrum. Should these people have the freedom of expression to display such an abhorrent symbol? What say you?

''

No.

Nazi flag is a symbol of 75 M people killed by Nazis.

It's symbol of chairs upholstered with human skin and stuffed with human hair.

All supporters of Nazi ideology should be prosecuted and jailed for life.


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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Ooops, apologies for not noticing we were speaking of Australia. I have no idea of how that country balances free speech and anti social/hate speech.

PS Not that this needs mentioning, but of course the swastika is a symbol of hate.

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Delilah66

a break in ranks has been spotted

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Vada(10)

I would be very uncomfortable to see this.

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arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Shax, I would like to tell our American friends that people who fly flags here are as scarce as hen's teeth.

In fact anyone with a flag pole who regularly hoists flags on said pole is regarded as strange.

Not too worry, it might rain soon and flags I have seen in the 600 metre long avenue where I live are some Aussie Flags in a few windows on National Days and one guy up the road who has a few Greek flags on a windmill thingo in his front garden.

So, the Nazi Flag flier(s) must be nutcase(s) otherwise why do it?


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Chi

"I believe if it is not against the law the people who own private property should be able to fly any flag they want. You can not take away what people believe as long as they do not cross the line and hurt someone.

Believe me, if I am looking to buy a house and someone is flying that flag, I would keep on going. No need to even stop at that open house. I would not want them as my neighbor."

If you were the person trying to sell your house, and your neighbor was flying a Nazi flag that was scaring off potential buyers, would you still support their right and be fine with it? Even if it meant costing you time and a lot of money if your house won't sell and your property value decreases? Or would that count as hurting someone?

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lily316

When we bought our house 36 years ago, the owner told us she had to ask her neighbor, an old WW2 vet to take the Nazi flag out of his window. I don't know if it was a souvenir or what but he died soon after and his widow still lives there minus any Nazi stuff.

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haydayhayday

(Sorry for the disjointed nature of these next three posts. I hit a filter...innocently and not because it was malice....and had trouble finding out why.

Go read the story yourself. )



https://www.newsweek.com/gay-pride-marchers-jewish-flags-told-leave-chicago-parade-628879



"The Star of David also features on the Israeli flag, with many believing support for Israel is tantamount to supporting the oppression of the Palestinian people."


Hay

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haydayhayday




https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40407057


Laurel Grauer said she was told to leave the so-called D*** March "because my flag was a trigger to people that they found offensive".


https://www.newsweek.com/gay-pride-marchers-jewish-flags-told-leave-chicago-parade-628879



"The Star of David also features on the Israeli flag, with many believing support for Israel is tantamount to supporting the oppression of the Palestinian people."


Hay

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haydayhayday

"The rainbow flags with the Jewish symbol "made people feel unsafe", an organiser told the Windy City Times."

Hay

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Annie Deighnaugh

Of course they should fly their flag...how will we know who they are otherwise.

I remember the big brouhaha in a nearby conservative town where Mary Travers lived, of Peter Paul & Mary fame, when she chose to fly the ecology flag. It was all so ridiculous. Freedom means people are free to make choices, even bad ones.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

They should fly their flag. The more we let it all out, the more progress can be made. Hide it, and nothing will ever be done. We can't have discussions about it, if we don't know it exists. Get those neighborhood kids talking about it, thinking about it, seeing what is really wrong. It's fine with me. I educated my son enough to make his own decisions. Hiding things from kids only makes it more interesting. Tell them the whole thing and they'll see it in its proper perspective.

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foodonastump

Rob - There’s a difference between knowing it exists and having it in your face as you walk out of your house every morning. My kids have a pretty good understanding of racism without the need for burning crosses in the neighborhood.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I didn't say I'd like it food. I'd despise it. Yet, I hate the Civil War statues and want them removed? I guess it's more about personal expression for me. I don't think it's up to everyone else to decide what I fly in my yard. Which is the current American flag, not don't tread on me, not a rebel flag, not a nazi flag... And only on holidays that are UScentric (Memorial Day, Veterans Day, 4th of July).

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foodonastump

I didn’t suggest you like it, Rob. Of course not. The part that I’m struggling with is that we can have all sorts of standards to maintain the aesthetics of the neighborhood yet we can’t ask that a symbol of hate be hung out of view? We can be punished for walking naked in front of an open window, the cops can come and tell us to turn down the music after 11 or the leaf blowers before 7. We’re not supposed to keep boats or garbage bins forward of the front plane of the house. Can’t let trash accumulate on our front lawns. I’m talking just a regular neighborhood, not part of a HOA. But swastikas, leave it alone it’s just freedom of expression?

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I just can't stomach the thought of anyone censoring. It's not up to everyone else to decide what we do? Where's the line? Who chooses? Political and religious ideologies don't get to be decided by others. Much to our chagrin ;)

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jerzeegirl (FL zone 9B)(9b)

Unfortunately you have two conflicting freedoms involved...so which is more important? You have your right to fly your Nazi flag but I have the right not to have to look at it. It may not be a physical assault to those who do not wish to see it, but it's an emotional assault.

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queenmargo

If you were the person trying to sell your house, and your neighbor was flying a Nazi flag that was scaring off potential buyers, would you still support their right and be fine with it? Even if it meant costing you time and a lot of money if your house won't sell and your property value decreases? Or would that count as hurting someone?

Well, it is kind of like luck of the draw when buying a house without HOA. I live in a no HOA area and my only direct neighbor might as well fly that flag as the rest of his nonsense is bringing down the value in answering your scenario. I guess thinking about your scenario, I should be glad to look at the current mess instead of that flag tho. LOL- thanks for the lemonade;)

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queenmargo

It may not be a physical assault to those who do not wish to see it, but it's an emotional assault.

Believe me, I am emotionally assaulted every day on this forum. I guess I have the option to not read or participate. I choose to be emotionally assaulted as I realize not everyone MUST think and believe as I do.

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

Someone does something provocative and you know that's probably why they are doing it - to be provocative. There's a lot of that going on now - people getting in your face about all sorts of arbitrary things because they are "offended" about something.

I don't know what the rules are in Australia. Here, people can do that sort of thing, especially on their own property. It may be obnoxious, but being obnoxious is not against the law. If it was, a lot of us would be in prison right now. :-)

Treat it with the indifference it deserves.

"The rainbow flags with the Jewish symbol "made people feel unsafe", an organiser told the Windy City Times."

People are eating their own. It's crazy. We are at the end now of intersectionality, thankfully, because so many people have been thrown out of the church and the church is almost empty.

They will offend each other out of existence. :-)

Seriously, this continued marginalization of others based solely on political opinions, group identity, and fragile emotions has been a recipe for disaster.

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Stan Areted

Well, come on, Queenmargo is certainly no snowflake!

And you are right, Queenmargo, and fair and tolerant, in that it doesn't appear to bother you one bit that not everyone thinks like you. I'm the same way, and in fact it is a reminder of the great thing about this country--as long as the liberals don't run everything, then we'd have our opinions banned among other liberties we now enjoy.

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Stan Areted

lionheart:

They will offend each other out of existence. :-)

Seriously, this continued marginalization of others based solely on political opinions, group identity, and fragile emotions has been a recipe for disaster.


No truer words, Lionheart.

What perplexes me is that there are those that either are blind to it or do not care.

Both scenarios are disturbing.

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vgkg (Va Z-7)

You know that times are changing when it's cool to be a nazi again, it's ok now since they were called "fine people".

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rob333 (zone 7a)

Just to be clear to anyone new, I'm not siding with nazis or those who fly that flag. I'm siding with the Constitution. They're not ok. They're the worst sort.

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Ziemia(6a)

The whole diminishing of property values is a thing. Regs about disturbing the peace are wrong?

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elvis

queenmargo

Just who gets to allow the standards of a decent society? Who gets to pick and choose these standards of which you speak...?

shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

Can you answer the question I asked to start this thread, Margo? Or have you just intervened to argue and deflect?

elvis

Argue is what we do. Deflect is your opinion. Shall we argue about that?

foodonastump

And he has the right to ask if she has an answer or just wants to deflect. Shall we argue about that? Don’t be distracted by the false suggestion that he told someone how to post.

__________

Later, rob basically asks the same questions as queenmargo, but the reaction is just a tad different.

rob333 (zone 7a)

I just can't stomach the thought of anyone censoring. It's not up to everyone else to decide what we do? Where's the line? Who chooses? Political and religious ideologies don't get to be decided by others.

And no one has a problem when rob asks. Just discussion, as it should be.

Someone please demonstrate why queenmargo's question is "arguing and deflecting" and rob's is not. Thanks.

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elvis

Looking at a guy with multiple facial tats and piercings and purple hair is very offensive to me. If 5 people who look like that sit on their front porch in plain view all day, some people looking to buy property in that neighborhood might think twice. So what?

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Chi

To me, there's a vast difference between someone glorifying the hate crimes of the Nazis who were responsible for many millions of deaths via genocide, and someone with purple hair.

I don't necessarily agree with censoring, but I do think people have a right to not be surrounded by the types of people who fly Nazi flags, which is pretty much a universally hated symbol. Sure, they could move, but what if no one will buy their home? Better luck next time?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

I understand what rob is saying wrt censorship and the silencing of ideas.

In this particular case, I don’t think it’s that. We don’t know what the flyer’s ideology is and we don’t know what their motivations are.

I think this one particular flag/symbol can be regulated because it is the symbol of a vanquished enemy (with no regard whatsoever to who that enemy was).

I’ve often thought that allowing confederate symbols and iconography to continue to be displayed after the civil war was a mistake. It kept wounds open, glorified the losing side, perpetuated the creation of martyrs, and ultimately slowed the reunification of the nation (in my opinion).

We can be sure that after the war for independence anyone still wanting to fly the British flag was hustled off to Canada or back to GB.

The Nazis are a vanquished enemy. Because of that I believe governments have the right to restrict the use of their symbols. (Please don’t understand that to mean that I think governments *must* restrict them.)

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haydayhayday

FOAS:

"I guess that’s up to Australian law, not my opinion.

But my opinion is this is the sort of thing we can and do expect to see, as we allow society to lower standards of decency in the name of tolerance and free expression. They will, because they can."

And the solution?

Less tolerance and less freedom.

But, you're the decent man.

Hay

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haydayhayday

FOAS:

Shax - While I’m unfamiliar with your laws, here there are laws and ordinances of many types designed to keep neighborhoods livable, hate speech can challenge freedom of expression, etc. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t something they the town government could throw at me, if I were to replace my American Flag with a Nazi flag.


FOAS:

"Rob - There’s a difference between knowing it exists and having it in your face as you walk out of your house every morning. My kids have a pretty good understanding of ......without the need for ...... crosses in the neighborhood."

How about glowing green ones?

Drive the Interstate between NYC and Boston, through Waterbury Ct. I

In your face?

You can't miss it.

Try replacing that with a Star of David or a Palestinian flag.

Good luck.

Hay



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haydayhayday

"The flag of Australia is based on the British maritime Blue Ensign – a blue field with the Union Jack in the canton or upper hoist quarter – augmented or defaced with a large white seven-pointed star (the Commonwealth Star) and a representation of the Southern Cross constellation, made up of five white stars – one small five-pointed star and four, larger, seven-pointed stars.

The red St George's Cross of England

The white diagonal St Andrew's Cross of Scotland

The red diagonal St Patrick's Cross of Ireland

In heraldry, Saint George's Cross, also called the Cross of Saint George, is a red cross on a white background, which from the Late Middle Ages became associated with Saint George, the military saint, often depicted as a crusader.


Associated with the crusades, the red-on-white cross....

Hay


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foodonastump

Hay there’ve been a few times I’ve thought I should clarify my first post, it was a commentary not about laws and freedom but how we’ve let our standards down. Little things, like watching your language around kids. Or controlling your kids around adults. Myriad courtesies that used to be a given. Narrow streets where I live. House across the street has rocks along the edge of the lawn to keep cars off. Where you think their guests park? You guessed it, on my side with two tires sinking into my lawn. They probably don’t even know enough to be aware. Nobody seems to care anymore. But it’s worse than that; with people going out of their way to upset others for the sake of upsetting them. “Because they can.”

Re your following post, That cross is tacky, and yes I know Christianity doesn’t have the purest track record but it’s not a universal symbol of hate. Nor is the Star of David, in this country, and I don’t think it beyond the realms of possibility to see one of those from the interstate at some point.


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haydayhayday

"On 7 May 1099 the crusaders reached Jerusalem, which had been recaptured from the Seljuks by the Fatimids of Egypt only a year before. On 15 July, the crusaders were able to end the siege by breaking down sections of the walls and entering the city. Over the course of that afternoon, evening and next morning, the crusaders killed almost every inhabitant of Jerusalem. Muslims and Jews alike. Although many Muslims sought shelter atop the Temple Mount inside the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the crusaders spared few lives. According to the anonymous Gesta Francorum, in what some believe to be one of the most valuable contemporary sources of the First Crusade, "...the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles...."[7] Tancred, Prince of Galilee claimed the Temple quarter for himself and offered protection to some of the Muslims there, but he was unable to prevent their deaths at the hands of his fellow crusaders. According to Fulcher of Chartres: "Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet coloured to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared."[8]


During the First Crusade and the massacre at Jerusalem, it has been reported that the Crusaders "[circled] the screaming, flame-tortured humanity singing 'Christ We Adore Thee!' with their Crusader crosses held high".[9] Muslims were indiscriminately killed, and Jews who had taken refuge in their Synagogue were killed when it was burnt down by the Crusaders."


Hay

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haydayhayday

But, you're the decent man.

Hay

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foodonastump

Thanks, I try.

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haydayhayday

He's talking about all of us.


Hay

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haydayhayday

Next time you take out a dollar and get back a nickel in change.

Take a close look.

Two of our heroes.

Slave owners.

"In God we Trust"

Hay

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margaritadina

''

Chi

I don't necessarily agree with censoring, but I do think people have a
right to not be surrounded by the types of people who fly Nazi flags,
which is pretty much a universally hated symbol.

''

Agree, Chi.


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youngquinn_gw

Hi Shax just letting you know that it is not us !

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shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

That thought never crossed my mind!


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catkinZ8a

lolol

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Current Resident(z4 WI)

RE "Believe me, if I am looking to buy a house and someone is flying that flag, I would keep on going"

Well there you go QM, youre kinda contradicting your own argument. If enough people feel the same way, and abhor what the symbol represents, and consequently you cant sell your house, then you are indeed being harmed. Your rights end where another person's rights begin.

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youngquinn_gw

yes I know just making a "funny" as I sit here gasping with the worst air quality in the world.....(how the mighty have fallen hey)

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elvis

Your rights end where another person's rights begin.

And therein lies the rub. Just where do "another person's rights begin"? As a free society we have to be very careful in legislating that.

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queenmargo

youngquinn- no one is making a "funny" at you or any Australian over the terrible wild fire situation.

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queenmargo

Well there you go QM, youre kinda contradicting your own argument. If enough people feel the same way, and abhor what the symbol represents, and consequently you cant sell your house, then you are indeed being harmed. Your rights end where another person's rights begin.

Not contradicting myself at all.

Not sure how the surrounding neighbors would feel or react if I could not sell my house. They probably are not concerned if I sell or not. My rights have not ended. I may not like looking at that flag and be mad as all get up, but I believe that each person should have the freedom to believe what they want.

I would figure out something??? creative to block out that flag from my view.

My neighbor could paint his house the color of the Rainbow. It would grate my nerves so bad. We do not live in a HOA with rules and regulations on paint. That would probably cause me the loss of the sale of my home. Have my rights ended and another person's rights begun?


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elvis

Have my rights ended and another person's rights begun?

Or better (worse?) yet, have your rights ended because another's rights have begun?

Also, it's good to remember that someone made up that adage. Sort of like the poem at the base of the Statue of Liberty. Write it down, repeat it often, and pretty soon people have it confused with the Constitution.

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shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

It's also good to remember that someone made up the Constitution. And the bible. Even a fellow called Shakespeare wrote some stuff.

Mere mortals, fallible all.

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youngquinn_gw

Shax Victoria has "The Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities" 2006

"he Act protects twenty one fundamental human rights, including:

  • Right to recognition and equality before the law (section 8)
  • Right to life (section 9)
  • Right to protection from torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment (section 10)
  • Right to freedom from forced work (section 11)
  • Right to freedom of movement (section 12)
  • Right to privacy and reputation (section 13)
  • Right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief (section 14)
  • Right to freedom of expression (section 15)
  • Right to peaceful assembly and freedom of association (section 16)
  • Right to protection of families and children (section 17)
  • Right to taking part in public life (section 18)
  • Cultural rights (section 19)
  • Property rights (section 20)
  • Right to liberty and security of person (section 21)
  • Right to humane treatment when deprived of liberty (section 22)
  • Rights of children in the criminal process (section 23)
  • Right to a fair hearing (section 24)
  • Rights in criminal proceedings (section 25)
  • Right not to be tried or punished more than once (section 26)
  • Retrospective criminal laws (section 27)[2]"
  • the right to freedom of expression is in the charter. done deal.
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Delilah66

"Try replacing that with a Star of David or a Palestinian flag."

People would die.

Your lit cross doesn't offend me. Neither did this one offend the SCOTUS:

Recently, I was standing outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre In Jerusalem when the call to prayer sounded. A woman in front of me was offended by that holy sound. "Why do we have to listen to that?" "Uh, they listen to your church bells."

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haydayhayday

Delilah:

"Your lit cross doesn't offend me."

FOAS:

"Rob - There’s a difference between knowing it exists and having it in your face as you walk out of your house every morning. My kids have a pretty good understanding of .....without the need for ......crosses in the neighborhood."

Delilah, how often do you drive by that glowing green cross? (It changes color, too!).


Hay


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haydayhayday


Delilah:

Recently, I was standing outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre In Jerusalem when the call to prayer sounded. A woman in front of me was offended by that holy sound. "Why do we have to listen to that?" "Uh, they listen to your church bells."


Meanwhile in Switzerland,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Swiss_minaret_referendum

The federal popular initiative "against the construction of minarets" was a successful popular initiative in Switzerland to prevent the construction of minarets on mosques. In a November 2009 referendum, a constitutional amendment banning the construction of new minarets was approved by 57.5% of the participating voters. Only three of the twenty Swiss cantons and one half canton, mostly in the French-speaking part of Switzerland, opposed the initiative.

...

They also believed that the members of the local opposition group were motivated by religious bias.


Nice flag they have. Welcoming.


"An old legend says that one of the last Roman emperors, Constantin, used a banner with a cross symbol when he defeated his rival Maxentius in 312. It is very likely that the cross symbol was taken over by Charlemagne and his successors as a sign of their leadership over the "Christian continent"."


Hay

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haydayhayday

Delilah:

Recently, I was standing outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre In Jerusalem when the call to prayer sounded. A woman in front of me was offended by that holy sound. "Why do we have to listen to that?" "Uh, they listen to your church bells."

Did you make a little side trip to Gaza while you were there?

Meanwhile in Gaza:



https://mondoweiss.net/2019/04/mosques-churches-burning/


"As the 300-foot spire of the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris tragically came tumbling down on live television, my thoughts ventured to Nuseirat Refugee Camp, my childhood home in the Gaza Strip.


But al-Masjid al-Kabir – the Great Mosque, later renamed al-Omari mosque – was completely pulverized by Israeli missiles during the summer war on Gaza, starting July 8, 2014.


Hundreds of Palestinian houses of worship were targeted by the Israeli military in previous wars, most notably in 2008-9 and 2012. But the 2014 war was themost brutal and most destructive yet. Thousands were killed and more injured. Nothing was immune to Israeli bombs. According to Palestine Liberation Organizationrecords, 63 mosques were completely destroyed and 150 damaged in that war alone, oftentimes with peopleseeking shelter inside. In the case of my mosque, two bodies were recovered after a long, agonizing search. They had no chance of being rescued. If they survived the deadly explosives, they were crushed by the massive slabs of concrete.


...

On August 2, 2014 the Israeli army bombed the historical-Omari Mosque in northern Gaza. The ancient mosque dates back to the 7th century and has since served as a symbol of resilience and faith for the people of Gaza.

As Notre Dame burned, I thought of al-Omari too. While the fire at the French cathedral was likely accidental, destroyed Palestinian houses of worship were intentionally targeted. The Israeli culprits are yet to be held accountable."

Hay

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haydayhayday

Meanwhile, back in Australia and its flag;

"The flag of Australia is based on the British maritime Blue Ensign – a blue field with the Union Jack in the canton or upper hoist quarter – augmented or defaced with a large white seven-pointed star (the Commonwealth Star) and a representation of the Southern Cross constellation, made up of five white stars – one small five-pointed star and four, larger, seven-pointed stars.

The red St George's Cross of England

The white diagonal St Andrew's Cross of Scotland

The red diagonal St Patrick's Cross of Ireland


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltire


A saltire, also called Saint Andrew's Cross or the crux decussata, is a heraldic symbol in the form of a diagonal cross, like the shape of the letter X in Roman type. The word comes from the Middle French sautoir, Middle Latin saltatoria ("stirrup").

Familiar looking shape?

Familiar looking shape?

Familiar looking shape?


Hay


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Current Resident(z4 WI)

Some brilliant displays of "what-aboutism" here. Yawn.

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elvis

Yes, they are brilliant.

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Delilah66

Did you make a little side trip to Gaza while you were there?”

Nope. Jordan.

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Delilah66

Hay, use my words once more and copyright laws will be applicable.

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Delilah66

Good thing your lit cross changes color. You’ll be constantly offended.

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haydayhayday

"Delilah, how often do you drive by that glowing green cross?"

Have you even ever seen it with your own eyes?

"Your lit cross doesn't offend me."

Rap music doesn't offend me.... unless I have to listen to it.

Hay



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haydayhayday

Current Resident:

"Some brilliant displays of "what-aboutism" here. Yawn."

More like,

"People who live in Glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones."?

Ask some of the Irish how they feel about the 'Butchers Apron'.

Ask a Hindu in India or a Muslim in Pakistan how they feel about the Union Jack.





Ask an Australian Aborigine how they view the Union Jack?


Estimating the total number of deaths during the frontier wars is difficult due to lack of records and the fact that many massacres of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander were kept secret. It is often quoted that 20,000 Aboriginal Australians and 2000 colonists died in the frontier wars;[ however, recent research indicates at least 40,000 Aboriginal dead and 2,000 to 2,500 settlers dead. Other research indicates a minimum of 65,000 Aboriginal peoples may have been killed in Queensland alone. There have been arguments over whether deaths of Aboriginal peoples, particularly in Tasmania, as well as the forcible removal of children from Aboriginal communities, constitutes genocide.[ Many place names in Australia mark places of frontier massacres, for example Murdering Gully in Newcastle.

Certainly sounds like the same treatment the American Indians got from us Europeans. I doubt that you'll find very many American Indians celebrating Columbus Day.

Maybe things are different in Australia.



The Aussies are waking up. They can tell me what I may have gotten wrong.

Good Morning, Australia!

Hay



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arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

This flag thing is interesting. The Aussie Flag was designed in 1901. Back then the design made sense in the then little outpost of Britain.

Not much changed till after the end of world war 2 when there was an influx of migrants from various European countries.

We were still mostly white. LOL.

Mid 1960's the white Australia policy was abolished.

So, just say that the Australian Flag was to be changed, if so a design reflecting the current makeup and ideals of the Australian population would not feature the Union Jack.


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haydayhayday

Good to see you, arthurm! The sun sets in Australia and the sun rises in the USA. Good Morning and Good Evening!

Today is a new day here in America. "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave."

Today's lesson on:"In Your Face":

As you go about your business today.....

George Washington: Slave Owner:

Thomas Jefferson: Slave Owner:

With an added little fillip:

"In God we Trust."

God Bless America!

Land of the Free and Home of the Brave!


Hay

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