Under pressure, Iran admits it shot down jetliner by mistake

dublinbay z6 (KS)

We have several long threads filled with speculation and innuendo and other subjective impressions. What we need is a fact-filled and well sourced report on what happened.

Here is a start in that direction:

-------------------------------

"Iran's Revolutionary Guard on Saturday acknowledged that it accidentally shot down the Ukrainian jetliner that crashed earlier this week, killing all 176 people aboard, after the government had repeatedly denied Western accusations and mounting evidence that it was responsible.

The plane was shot down early Wednesday, hours after Iran launched a ballistic missile attack on two military bases housing U.S. troops in Iraq in retaliation for the killing of Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani in an American airstrike in Baghdad. No one was hurt in the attack on the U.S. bases.

The admission raised a host of new questions, such as why Iran did not shut down its international airport or airspace when it was bracing for a U.S. reprisal. It also undermined the credibility of information provided by senior officials, who for three days had adamantly dismissed allegations of a missile strike as Western propaganda.

Iran's acknowledgment also alters the narrative around its confrontation with the U.S. in a way that could anger the Iranian public. Iran had promised harsh revenge after Soleimani's death, but instead of killing American soldiers, its forces downed a civilian plane in which most passengers were Iranian and none survived.

Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the head of the Guard's aerospace division, said his unit accepts full responsibility for the shootdown. In an address broadcast by state TV, he said that when he learned about the downing of the plane, “I wished I was dead.”

He said he raised the possibility to his superiors that his forces shot down the plane as early as Wednesday morning because “the simultaneous occurrence of the launch and crash was suspicious.”

Hajizadeh said Guard forces ringing the capital had beefed up their air defenses and were at the “highest level of readiness,” fearing that the U.S. would retaliate. He said he suggested Tehran should close its airspace but no action was taken.

He said the airline's pilot and crew had done nothing wrong, but an officer made the “bad decision” to open fire on the plane after mistaking it for a cruise missile.

“We were prepared for an all-out conflict,” he said.

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, expressed his “deep sympathy” to the families of the victims and called on the armed forces to "pursue probable shortcomings and guilt in the painful incident.”

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said the crash investigation should continue and the “perpetrators” should be brought to justice. He said Iran should compensate victims' families, and he requested “official apologies through diplomatic channels.”

The Ukrainian airline criticized Iran's decision to leave its airspace open despite the hostilities.

“It's absolutely irresponsible,” Ukraine International Airlines vice president Ihor Sosnovskiy told reporters. “There must be protection around ordinary people. If they are shooting somewhere from somewhere, they are obliged to close the airport."

[. . .]

President Hassan Rouhani acknowledged Iran's responsibility but blamed the downing of the plane in part on “threats and bullying” by the United States after the killing of Soleimani. He expressed condolences, calling for a full investigation and the prosecution of those responsible. "


https://www.yahoo.com/news/iran-says-unintentionally-shot-down-034030154.html

-----------------------------------


There is more information at that linked source, if you are interested.

Kate

SaveComment51Like3
Comments (51)
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
palisades_

I’m glad they finally admitted. It’s the right thing to do.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
margaritadina

''Iran's Revolutionary Guard on Saturday acknowledged that it accidentally shot down the Ukrainian jetliner ''


Says it all about their military - they can't tell the difference between a slow passenger airplane and a military jet.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
war garden

i told you guy/girls it was shoot down 4 day ago.

some asked for sources. the facts were obvious if you looked.


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

The Ukrainian airline criticized Iran's decision to leave its airspace open despite the hostilities.”

Did the Ukrainian airline have any culpability for making the decision to fly? I am NOT suggesting that Iran is not responsible 100%, but will the airline also pay the consequences for their decision?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

“ i told you guy/girls it was shoot down 4 day ago.

some asked for sources. the facts were obvious if you looked.”

You are very sage and will be rewarded in this life and beyond.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dublinbay z6 (KS)

And I had to go find my own source since you, war garden, refused my request for more details.

Kate

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
margaritadina

''

Delilah66

The Ukrainian airline criticized Iran's decision to leave its airspace open despite the hostilities.”

Did the Ukrainian airline have any culpability for making the
decision to fly? I am NOT suggesting that Iran is not responsible 100%,
but will the airline also pay the consequences for their decision?
''

Without air traffic controller's ''Okay'' no plane will take off. Unless it's different in Iran.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

I know that, margaritadina. It was still the airline's decision. ATC didn't make the plane take off. ATC allowed the plane to take off.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
chipotle



Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
margaritadina

''

Delilah66

ATC allowed the plane to take off.''

That's right, Delilah. ACT allows the plane to take off when it's SAFE. The plain is mapped into the air traffic and should be OK. No pilot will take off without ACT's okay. None. That's why Iran refuses to submit the black box for investigation.

There was no communication between the military and the airport TC. And it should have been.No, it's not Ukrainians' fault, it's all on Iran.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
batyabeth

ooops? Sorry, we did a booboo? At the very least, it's one of the first times Iran actaully acknowledges a mistake, and one of the fewer times it tells the truth to it's own people. Gotta count for something I guess.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
queenmargo

Are you sure they are telling the truth when they say it was an accident?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
catkinZ8a


batyabeth

ooops? Sorry, we did a booboo? At the very least, it's one of the first times Iran actaully acknowledges a mistake, and one of the fewer times it tells the truth to it's own people. Gotta count for something I guess.

____________________________________

LOLOLOL!

Believe anything the murdering regime that is biggest supporter of terrorism in the world, SMH.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
dublinbay z6 (KS)

Since some countries label the actions of the USA as "terrorist" also, I imagine they are as skeptical of the truth-telling failures of the USA as some posters here are of those of Iran.

Kate

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
HU-885118952

Which countries label taking out a terrorist who has killed 600+ Americans and innocents all over the ME as "terrorism"?


Which ones, Kate? Iran? Iran that just shot down a plane loaded with its own people?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

Says it all about their military - they can't tell the difference between a slow passenger airplane and a military jet.

What does it say? The United States military has also shot down passenger planes, so I guess you think their military and ours are similar in that respect.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
HU-885118952

I didn't glean that. Seems like a straw man to me.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

"There was no communication between the military and the airport TC. And it should have been.No, it's not Ukrainians' fault, it's all on Iran."

Did you read where I said, "I am NOT suggesting that Iran is not responsible 100%, but will the airline also pay the consequences for their decision?"? Or do you just want to insist I'm saying Iran is not responsible?

Iran's ATC is the responsibility of Iran. I did not say it's Ukrainians' fault. I ASKED if UIA will pay the consequences of their decision, assuming they remain solvent, because good luck getting anything from Iran.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
leona_2008

No doubt Iran only admitted this because to continue denying it would have been futile and only served to further diminish their standing in the world. Admitting when you make a mistake, even without goodwill, is the only thing to do when you consider the consequences. Even the leaders of Iran are wiser than trump, who never admits mistakes nor considers the consequences of his every narcissistic move.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

ETA: @HU-885118952 How things seem to you, and what you glean, isn't very relevant with only that flimsy comment. How about explaining how you think Iran's military's "can't tell the difference between a slow passenger airplane and a military jet" differs from when the United State's military "can't tell the difference between a slow passenger airplane and a military jet"?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

"Seems like a straw man to me."

Not so. It's a valid question about the given statement. A more on point answer to gyr_falcon would have been to address your understanding of the differences between the US military excursions and Iran's.

ETA: gyr_falcon!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

lol Delilah66

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Chessie

Delilah66

"Did the Ukrainian airline have any culpability for making the decision to fly? I am NOT suggesting that Iran is not responsible 100%, but will the airline also pay the consequences for their decision?"


Why would you think that the airline have to pay at all? This is all on IRAN. The airline has no fault in this tragedy.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

History repeats itself...over and over.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

I didn't say I "think that the airline [will] have to pay". Please re-read.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

"The families of the victims and all Canadians want answers. I want answers. That means closure, transparency, accountability and justice,” Trudeau said Thursday.

But getting closure is far from certain, according to Brodkowitz, who cited the 2014 crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shot down by a Russian-made missile over eastern Ukraine.

“So what we saw in MH17 is that people, individuals, can’t just sue a government. You have governments that can sue other governments, for instance in the Hague at the International Court of Justice,” she told CTV News Channel on Thursday.

“But there is no legal recourse. There is no justice for victims of these families because the treaties don’t really have any teeth.”

Last summer, international prosecutors in the Netherlands announced murder charges against four people, including three Russians with military backgrounds, in connection with the MH17 crash. Russia called those charges unfounded and is not expected to extradite any of the accused men for the trial later this spring.

Families of the MH17 victims also filed lawsuits against Malaysia Airlines, accusing the airline of negligence and breach of contract for flying a passenger plane through a known conflict zone. The airline reportedly settled damages claims with families of 165 victims."

The families of the victims and all Canadians want answers. I want answers. That means closure, transparency, accountability and justice,” Trudeau said Thursday.

But getting closure is far from certain, according to Brodkowitz, who cited the 2014 crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shot down by a Russian-made missile over eastern Ukraine."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/families-of-iran-plane-crash-victims-face-few-legal-options-lawyer-1.4761077

edited to delete a duplicated paragraph

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

fly free, gyr_falcon!

ETA: Hmmm, the "fly free" seems a bit macabre in this context, but you get the idea, right?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
margaritadina

''

dublinbay z6 (KS)

Since
some countries label the actions of the USA as "terrorist" also, I
imagine they are as skeptical of the truth-telling failures of the USA
as some posters here are of those of Iran.

Kate
''

You sound like you are posting from one of those countries, Kate. They think we should be wiped off of the face of the Earth, who cares what they think???

''

gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

Says it all about their military - they can't tell the difference between a slow passenger airplane and a military jet.

What does it say? The United States military has also shot down
passenger planes, so I guess you think their military and ours are
similar in that respect.''

I didn't find any evidence via quick search. Link please.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

I certainly don't care what other countries think, particularly now.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

"I didn't find any evidence via quick search. Link please."

Disingenuous.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

margaritadina, Too difficult to google 'united states shot down passenger plane'? Try: Iranian Air Flight 655

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
HU-885118952


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
bob_cville

> Says it all about their military - they can't tell the difference between a slow passenger airplane and a military jet.

Except what the words in the article said was that the Iranian officer mistook the commercial plane for a cruise missile. A commercial jet flies at 460 – 575 mph and a cruise missile flies at 500 mph.

> Try: Iranian Air Flight 655
According to the United States government, the crew of USS Vincennes had incorrectly identified the Airbus as an attacking F-14 Tomcat, a U.S.-made jet fighter that had been part of the Iranian Air Force inventory since the 1970s.

So who is it that cannot tell the difference between a passenger airplane and a military jet?

Or for that matter try TWA Flight 800, where the official explanation is that a fuel tank exploded, but the official explanation is physically impossible, and it discounts hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw something streak up from the surface.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Nothing much changes... The world is still like my childhood days when the goodie calvary is going to save the goodie settlers from the baddie injuns. (at the Saturday Matinee, admittance 6 pence, 5 cents in todays money)

Looked up the university of google and found that Iran was not always a baddie!

You would have to be very wise indeed to sort out the Bad guys from the Good guys in the Middle East. I suspect that George W thought that things would be better when the US invaded Iraq and got rid of a dictator. Sadly things got worse!

Actually, things do change, just returned from Roselands Shopping centre, where if you looked at the customers you would be hard pressed to know where you were.

Somewhere in Asia? Somewhere in the Middle East?

Not to worry, another day in the socialist commie paradise. It even rained a little bit today.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Arthrum:

"Nothing much changes... The world is still like my childhood days when the goodie calvary is going to save the goodie settlers from the baddie injuns. (at the Saturday Matinee, admittance 6 pence, 5 cents in todays money)

Looked up the university of google and found that Iran was not always a baddie!

You would have to be very wise indeed to sort out the Bad guys from the Good guys in the Middle East. I suspect that George W thought that things would be better when the US invaded Iraq and got rid of a dictator. Sadly things got worse!"

It cost me 9 cents. My mom would give me 15 cents and off I'd go. 9 cents for the movie, 6 cents for the candy.

I suspect that George W thought that things would be better when the US invaded Iraq and got rid of a dictator. Sadly things got worse!"

Worse?

Really?

Depends on your perspective.

I can think of one country in that region that has benefited from the chaos we've managed to sow in the region.

Muslims against Muslims. Who wins?


Hay

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

Says it all about their military - they can't tell the difference between a slow passenger airplane and a military jet.

Well neither could the US military when they shot down the Iranian flight, nor could they tell the difference between an ally and a foe when they bombed those Canadian soldiers, insults aimed at another, when you also have done the same is hypocrisy.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Jonnygun(zone 7)

Yes, the US also made a mistake 32 years ago durring the Iran/Iraq war. Mistakes are made, however, Iran made a simple mistake that should have easily been avoided. It is not hard for modern systems to differentiate between the signatures of a 737 and a cruise missile. Kinda what they were designed for... Somehow the US does it hundreds of times a day.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Hay is "Arthrum:" part of your funny platform or just a mistake? The Dragon woman doesn't like Arthur, she just calls me love!

Seriously, it is unfortunate that much of the world's oil is found in a place split into tribes by variations of the thingo that Dawkins calls the God delusion.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Mistakes are what they are. 10 seconds between a good decision and a terrible mistake. It’s what can happen when humans get distracted or emotionally overwrought.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

“Iran made a simple mistake.” The connotation of “simple mistake” does not include death.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

I'm pretty sure that Iran is the only country to shoot down a passenger plane just after take off from their own airport. I don't believe it was a mistake.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday

"Hay is "Arthrum:" part of your funny platform or just a mistake? The Dragon woman doesn't like Arthur, she just calls me love!

Seriously, it is unfortunate that much of the world's oil is found in a place split into tribes by variations of the thingo that Dawkins calls the God delusion."

Short term memory issues. By the time I get down to this box, I barely remember the subject, much less all the letters in your name. "Hay" is nice and short. We all should be so blessed. I'll try to do better.

Seriously, it is unfortunate that much of the world's oil is found in a place split into tribes by variations of the thingo that Dawkins calls the God delusion."

Egg and the Chicken. Which came first? People will find a way to segregate themselves. The god part is just a means of cementing it all together.

Good Evening! from Good Morning!

Edit: I think calling you "love" is going to take a little getting used to.

Hay


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Lurker

What political person in the Iran military wanted to shoot down Iran’s own plane to risk/encourage the wrath of the people towards the current government?

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lurker111

There was a no fly zone. If one American had been on that flight, we would be hearing a different story. I don't think they care about their people. If they protest, they'll get shot. End of story.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

Or if they follow blindly into a war based on lies of WMD their own people get shot as well.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

Lurker

What was the purpose? I read what the commander said. He sincerely wishes he had died on that plane. The guy that shot the midsole was distracted and had 10 seconds to decide. I had my doubts too, but I think it was accidental.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
bob_cville

> I'm pretty sure that Iran is the only country to shoot down a passenger
plane just after take off from their own airport. I don't believe it
was a mistake.

I'll suggest again to read about TWA Flight 800, which had just taken off from NYC for a transatlantic flight. Hundreds of eyewitnesses saw a streak of light come from the surface and end in a giant ball of flame in the sky, but all of their accounts were disregarded in favor of a impossible explanation concocted by the CIA involving a fuel explosion in a fuel tank at an altitude at which that is not possible, causing the nose of the plane to break off and the rest of the plane to abruptly climb which is also not possible. Purely coincidentally there were several Navy ships conducting some sort of exercise in the water beneath where the plane exploded.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Delilah66

Ahhh, yes. RW conspiracy theorists.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Kathy

I do remember that and we never did get an explanation. Tragic.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Chessie

There was certainly an official explanation. Just that some don't believe it.

1 Like Save    
Browse Gardening and Landscaping Stories on Houzz See all Stories
Most Popular 5 Common Bathroom Design Mistakes to Avoid
Get your bath right for the long haul by dodging these blunders in toilet placement, shower type and more
Full Story
Most Popular So You Say: 30 Design Mistakes You Should Never Make
Drop the paint can, step away from the brick and read this remodeling advice from people who’ve been there
Full Story
Most Popular Your Guide to 15 Popular Kitchen Countertop Materials
Get details and costs on top counter materials to help you narrow down the choices for your kitchen
Full Story
Premier Home Services, Inc. has been providing custom remodeling services to Loudoun County and the Surrounding... Read More
Our lineup of flooring and carpet gives you options for every look and every budget. We have the experience and... Read More