Better yet, in the future, one should contact a structural engineer to come and investigate before taking out walls/pillars/etc. unless you are absolutely correct and sure of what you are doing.

Unless, of course, a contractor or architect could make that same determination. Since the OP "got the pole removed" rather than removed it himself, it is entirely possible that the party he hired was always competent and doing the job correctly, and the error was simply in assuming that an incomplete picture was sufficient to make that determination.

I agree. How hard is it to look above the beam to see what its supporting? Its a simple matter of paying attention to the obvious

At least, you will have learned those are not questions you should ask on a public forum.

@bry911 - Yes. Agreed. I was more commenting for those who wander in to this post down the road who may want to start "opening up the space".

Chirag - You are lucky you did not die. If it were a structural column and you removed it everything it supported could have fallen on you, leaving your wife with joy of making funeral arrangements. I hope nobody else attempts the same folly.

Folks responded to the situation as you described it, which was incomplete and slow in developing. I would much rather error on the side of safety. So, very happy you weren't hurt. The lecture was over the top too! lol

There's a lesson here. When renovating, rely on knowledge, not luck, to keep you safe.

I think the lesson here is when renovating, don't ask questions on a site where the majority of the respondents have very little knowledge.

That sag is coming from something.

That sag is coming from something.

The camera?

Phone cameras are not always true especially when you have a light source in the picture. Phone cameras correct for lens distortion before you see the image and sometimes the software just doesn't correct that well. Many of the lighter parts of the picture the OP provided are not straight, including many of the vertical and horizontal surfaces and not just the one part. It could be that all the ceilings are sagging and many of the walls are buckling, but it seems more likely that the image is just over-corrected.

I don't think anyone who posted here has anything to apologize for. In a configuration like that, and with the demand for "open floor plans," the house's architect had a reason to put that column there, whether it was load bearing or not.

Even if its only mission in life was to alert people to the step, that's still an important one.

In fact, I'm not 100% convinced that it wasn't load bearing. If it were my house, I'd consider getting a second opinion. I've had experience with a house where a load bearing wall had been improperly moved, and I'd rather not repeat it.

Years ago I had a project where I directed the builder to shore up the ceiling/floor joists, remove 16 feet of bearing wall, and install a beam in place of the bering wall; in that order. The builder removed 16 feet of bearing wall and let it set. When I visited the site I saw the ceiling sagging about six inches, I experienced that phenomena when you see something so horrifying that all you can do is stare. After gathering my composure I went to the second floor and saw the floor dipping about six inches. At that point the existing hardwood floor became structural, supporting the floor joists and ceiling below. I notified the Owner and suggested a replacement builder. The owner telephoned the builder I recommended and after a 14.5 second interview, he was hired. The new builder showed up within the hour and secured the structure. I have grey hair.

the house's architect had a reason to put that column there, whether it was load bearing or not.

Just my 2 cents... If an architect intentionally put that level change in that floor then the only logical conclusion is the column was added as an attachment point for said architect to facilitate the beating he so richly deserves. Given what we can see from the picture I suspect the assumption that there was an architect involved in this project is a dangerous one.

I don't think anyone who posted here has anything to apologize for.

I agree... there is absolutely no need to apologize for a lack of knowledge when you are criticizing someone else for a lack of knowledge.

Let's be honest, many rushed to chastise the OP for acting irresponsibly and without the information/knowledge he needed to act appropriately. Of the early posters, only RES, architect asked the appropriate follow up questions necessary to get the information/knowledge needed to avoid his own irresponsible action.

Two wrongs don't make a right... I too believed it was load bearing, and even though I qualified that belief by noting I wasn't positive, I am concerned that my mistake may have cost the OP unnecessary expense over what he would have paid for the evaluation had we not pressed the urgency so hard. I hope that didn't happen and I am sorry if it did.

Whether it was load bearing or not, one must act as if it was load bearing until proven otherwise. The OP acted as if it were not load bearing, and thankfully it did not end in a tragedy. The only person qualified to answer the OP's question would be one that had the ability to stand in the room to gather the information needed, and take the responsibility, to advise conclusively.

"The OP acted as if it were not load bearing, and thankfully it did not end in a tragedy."

You don't know that! He had it removed, rather than doing it himself. It is entirely possible, and maybe even probable, that the party he had remove it was qualified to evaluate the removal. Certainly, as you note yourself, that party stood in the room and therefore at least had the opportunity to be properly informed.

You don't need to know if a pole is load bearing to ask a contractor to remove it anymore than you need to be able to design your own house when you ask an architect to do it.

My first boss as a framer had a very good saying, "you don't get paid for thinking, you get paid for knowing..."

You're right, whoever performed the removal the post could have been in danger also; and so could have been any person in the space from that point on. The failure of the structure would not necessarily occur right at the point of demolition.

As in my project, the support was removed without catastrophic results at the time and the reasoning of everything is okay prevailed.

The question remained of whether the "pole" was load bearing or the OP would not have asked the question or claimed, "i removed the pole, but unsure if it was load bearing."

Hopefully anyone who removes or directs the removal of parts of a building will verify whether it is structural or not beyond a reasonable doubt and takes appropriate action.

I'll do right, need to know what your doing VERY PLAIN AN SIMPLE for a pro,so many home owners think they can do any an all projects by there self ,so hire a professional, leave all this to us professionals we do this for a living

Oh, Oaks. If only "doing this for a living" always meant "doing it right." If only. Sigh.

well I do it for a living, so I do it right. There's so many so called pros out there just giving us real pros a bad rap ,so home owners think they can do it themselves , if you want it done right the first time call a professional then dig into their mind do they just look at it or do they get dirty, when it comes to homeowners they see in there mind what they want but in some case's the customer isn't RIGHT.

to your ? the pole is load bearing ,a pole below a pole above ,pretty much a load bearing wall ,to be sure u need to get dirty or should I say itchy.

^ "There's so many so called pros out there just giving us real pros a bad rap".

@ OAKS LLC, did you actually read what the op posted? Just because someone has a Pro badge on their profile doesn't automatically mean they know what they are doing and vice versa...................................

"There's so many so called pros out there just giving us real pros a bad rap"

In addition there are so many people who THINK they are pros but really are doing nothing more than talking a good game to a homeowner who knows even less than they do. What was the company that advertised with the line 'An educated consumer is our best customer' ? It's true because when you know enough to appreciate the expertise and experience of a true pro, you don't begrudge (much) their cost. Sadly, most people can't be knowledgeable about the inner workings of their house, or vehicles, or appliances etc and fall prey to those who sound like they do.

millworkman I anwser his ? shall we keep bitchen each other out ? I thought this was a business site.THANKYOU

This isn't a business site, though a lot of people with businesses post here.

What is below a beam is only relevant to the design of the beam to the extent that it affects the supports at the ends of the beam.

The steel post in the basement might be for the purpose of reducing the deflection of the basement beam while allowing as much open spaxce in the basement as possible.

If you do this kind of thing for a living, you stop guessing about structural loads after you make your first bad guess. But in the absence of information, rather than ignore an OP, the forum tends to start guessing and/or making bad jokes I attribute this trend to the recent absence of interesting projects on the forum.

Has no one noticed that the pole in the basement, is not original to the house. It is a new pole, under a new beam. The lumber shows its new. That was put there for a good reason, I am sure.

This is NOT a business site. At least it's not their personal forum to spam in. It's still more or less aimed at homeowners, thank goodness.

You dismiss and denigrate DIY. Let me tell you why I think there's so much DIY in the US - something that I see less of in most other first world countries that I've visited, BTW.

1. You can hardly even find a pro for anything less than major renovation. Nobody wants small jobs. They don't show up, or they never submit the bid, or they vanish when you call them to schedule the job.

2. We've all seen too many cases of pros - often with good references - who take on work that that they don't really have either the experience or knowledge to do. The result is often no better than a knowledgeable DIY could have done. You may not think that this is common, but trust me, when you hire someone like that, you remember it for the rest of your life.

Money back? It’s a free public forum...

Do pros have to pay Houzz to have the "Pro" label?

When your first post on a forum filled with DIYers (and some pros) is insulting and belittling all DIYers, you really should expect some backlash.

Generally, on any forum site, it's a good idea to read and get a feel for the place before you jump in and start commenting.

"Cell warriors." That's a good one. I was using the net when it was the ARPANET, sonny boy. Show some respect for your elders. :)

The current company bought the GardenWeb forums five years ago. The forums have always been free, but there are different Pro designation levels, and the higher you go -- the more the company promises you -- the more you pay. I believe the current pricing model for Pros is $59/year for the "starter" package, $99/year for the "essential" package, and $179/year for the "ultimate" package, though none of them buys you an obsequious and fawning audience for posts if you can't back it up with knowledge, a good attitude, and manners.

Which is why mashing up a free public advice forum with a paid pro website has always had its problems.

The nice thing about GardenWeb before 2015 is that there were plenty of professional on the site. If they wanted to make it known, they did. If they didn't, they didn't. As with most things, it's up to the user to use their discernment. The problem with the current model is that the company and many of those with badges seem to expect homeowners to park their discernment, when the reality would seem to call for even more.

If you paid money to Houzz? You’re not allowed to cancel. And they auto renew, even if you cancel your credit card. You’ll never get any leads either. It’s a giant hole that takes money. There are people paying 1K a month for the privilege of “enhanced” listings. 🙄

@Mark Bischak, Architect

You noted, " The only person qualified to answer the OP's question would be one that had the ability to stand in the room to gather the information needed, and take the responsibility, to advise conclusively."

However, prior to that...

So did you go to the OP's house and stand in the room to gather the information needed?

Whether or not the OP should have removed the pole is completely separate from whether or not building design and construction professionals should comment conclusively on its removal.

There is the moral hazard of internet advice and certainly I don't think the OP should have substituted this forum for real professional advice. However, nor do I think people who made a mistake should be so righteous about making a mistake regardless of how well intentioned they were, myself included.

"Money back? It’s a free public forum..."

Huhh? Mark has me sending him $20 every month.

Anyone paying to be on this site and posting and hoping it helps their business is wasting money big time.

OAKS LLC, since you singled me out I shall continue,

"millworkman I anwser his ? shall we keep bitchen each other out ? I thought this was a business site.THANKYOU"

Obviously had you read your would realize you did not answer his question. You were the one who started "bitchen" people out. Ans as other have pointed out it is not a "business site"...............................

One of the problems with contractors is that the bad ones don't wear a sign around their neck and the information is so asymmetric that consumers have no reasonable way to evaluate contractor performance. So it is not a simple value proposition of estimated benefit received / estimated cost. Really you have to factor in risk, and as bad contractors and bad business practices become more profitable so to do the number of contractors willing to exploit that profit but on the downside it starts devaluing good contractors.

As a homeowner, when evaluating contractors, spelling also counts.

I truly feel for the DIY homeowners looking for decent quality work for a fair price. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my professional practice is in the industrial/municipal sector. I work for a very large special district, and we get quality work from contractors 100% of the time, one way or another. The facilities we maintain rely upon this quality of work and if we do not uphold very high standards we put millions of the public at risk.

Unfortunately, none of the layers and layers of procedures and precautions we take to ensure consistent quality work is anything a typical homeowner can do themselves. We spend hundreds, thousands of hours developing drawings and specs that become legal contracts, we require bonds, we enforce liquidated damages and other penalties, we have teams of extremely knowledgeable experts watch contractors like a hawk every minute work is being performed. We require contractors to spell out to the letter exactly what they are going to do before they do it.

This is nothing new for any of the professionals on this site, but I don’t think most homeowners know what it takes to get exactly what you want. Then you get threads like this where you get posters asking structural questions with a poor res photo and 4 sentence description, and they 100% think they are going to get a good answer that will help them complete their remodel flawlessly.

It‘s a sad state of affairs, and I think we are overdue for a complete reform of the residential construction industry here in the states.

spelling also counts.

Right on! So do grammar and reasonably comprehensible syntax.

I'm not looking for geniuses, or advanced degrees, or anything of the sort. It's just kind of nice to have people working on the house who write and speak as if they were actually paying attention in high school. At least you can expect that they're able to read the installation instructions.

Pro's actually have to pay a subscription for that little tag next to their name and what seems to be a different bunch of stuff on their page vs non-pro members? Well ptttht to that. Though it might help explain some behaviors I've seen out of some pro's on occasion. Both negative and positive.

An aspect of this houzz/GW forum I hadn't known about before.

TBH I'm not a pro. I reacted based off early commentary in this thread to base an option off of. The apparently sagging stretch in what is clearly a still freshly worked on room. Span and post in the basement. A goodly handful of holy crap oops kinds of threads along with what to do before hand kinds of threads around here over the years giving me a bias... and looking at the OP posting history and what seems to be a whole bunch of bad contractor stuff like tile issues, finishing and sink stuff in the kitchen, and the bad bathroom job that leaked into the floor below...

I did error to the side of caution in this thread before I started posting. IMO it was better to error to the side of caution considering the thread and poster history than anything else.

My contractor is a poor speller, but a math whiz. Different parts of the brain.

"Yes" was the proper answer based upon the information provided, urgency of the issue, and payment for services rendered.

ARG - Thank you and keep 'em coming.

Honestly most posts go the same way. A homeowner posts something asking for help. Some people give helpful and socially appropriate replies and ask questions. Some people are condescending and rude. It never changes.

Anyone who is knew to posting mistakenly thinks they will get a decent sounding board and instead weed through the nastiness, assumption and rudeness.

The reality is it is a public forum and free. That said it is hardly hard to reply respectfully to people. If they don’t take your advice at least you politely offered it and if you are a pro you come off looking helpful and approachable.

Yet too often the case we have pros who respond with such condescension and rudeness I can’t imagine how they ever elicit work. If this is how many speak to clients or interact in the real world I’m shocked they make a living as a “pro” in their field. Many pros also forget that what is common sense is new to the poster...hence the post. So while it may seem obvious to you perhaps a little tact would help in the delivery to the poster.

Homeowners are no better as they ask questions without giving info, bury their head in the sand when sound advice is given, or ask a question never to update or reply again.

There’s enough stupidity to go around on all sides.

Yet too often the case we have pros who respond with such condescension and rudeness I can’t imagine how they ever elicit work. If this is how many speak to clients or interact in the real world I’m shocked they make a living as a “pro” in their field. Many pros also forget that what is common sense is new to the poster...hence the post. So while it may seem obvious to you perhaps a little tact would help in the delivery to the poster.

I agree here. Having had folks bring their plans to me now for 45 years, I've seen it all and there's always room for something nice to say and still get the point across about plan deficiencies. Something like "Wow! Great start but let's take your ideas a step further...how about this....?" even though the "step further" may have little to do with their ideas, it sets the stage for positive improvement. That's in contrast to the rhetorical question review like "Do you like a dark house?" which, while likely unintended, can come across as a put down while offering little in the way of how to improve on the plan.

When reading some of the reviews here I often put myself in the mindset of a lurker (and for every poster there are dozens, if not hundreds of lurkers) with the question of "should I post my plan?". More often than not, after reading the way some critiques are presented (as opposed to the design points themselves), the answer is "No way".

Maybe that's why it seems we have less "Look at my plan" posts compared to five years ago.

^^^ A++++

Your kill 'em with kindness approach allows the OP to read a critique without feeling the need to either hide or defend. As does your comment saying that the redundant question "Do you like a dark house?" is likely unintended to be a put down, allows that poster to perhaps rethink their approach. Perhaps, but probably not. Some things here seem set in stone.

Maybe these people are 'nice' to clients in person but once they get on an anonymous board with people who are very unlikely to ever hire them anyway, they open up and say whatever they want and use whatever tone to do it. They don't have much to lose (in their minds anyway).

I don't run across many clients who ask for structural beam advice but won't reveal what the beam is supporting. If you ask a silly question, you'll get silly answers.