These comments are directed towards the the question: "Also, how do you clean a virused plant using cuttings? My experience of virus, admittedly not any which affect roses, has been that they are generally systemic," ------------------------- It is common to read in the general rose virus reviews something along the lines of the following: "Cuttings from an infected plant will be infected - no matter what portion of the plant they were taken from. The disease is systemic: The entire plant is infected, whether visible signs of the disease are present, or not." see as one example: http://www.goldcoastrose.org/ A Cornell 1998 rose virus research paper (not in the cited abstract: http://www.actahort.org/books/234/234_53.htm The statement is in the "must be paid for" full paper.) stated: "Virus distribution in apple, plum, and cherry trees is irregular" (they then give 1963, 1973, 1984, and 1986 references.) it is likely that virus distribution in rose is also irregular. This explanation appears to be reasonable since virus inoculated plants frquently exhibited some shoots expressing no symptons. It is possible that the virus has not been distributed throught the plant." ------------------- Since then, one French http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1094/PHYTO.2000.90.5.522 and one Polish study http://150.254.175.4/ptfit/pdf/PP38a/PP38_091-098.pdf have confired the irregular distributions. -------------------- The French reported that: "A total of 89% (59 out of 66) of Anna stems was entirely PNRSV negative when axillary shoots from these stems developed after the decapitation of the floral stem, after the development of cuttings, or grown in vitro were tested by ELISA. ELISA tests of leaves from these stems were all negative. Since IC-RT-PCR conducted in parallel on all the explants from three (out of seven) of these stems also were negative, we suspect that these stems were virus free, even if they belonged to infected plants, or that the viral titer was very low in the stems." http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1094/PHYTO.2000.90.5.522 ---------------------------- Thus, the French reported that they suspect that they were able to obtain clean plants from cuttings (as determined by the use of ELISA or PCR). They leave the door open that a more sensitive method may find a low amount of infection. ---------------------------------- This is what was reported concerning California Davis ROSE VIRUS experience: "Oddly enough, one way they eliminate virii is by clonal propagation. Simply put, if you culture enough buds (~100) some small number of them (two or three maybe) will be virus free. The drawback is space, labor and the need to index all the test plants." http://www.rosebreeders.org/forum/read.php?2,38492,38492#msg-38492 See the following thread for a discussion of the possibilities of cleaning cuttings in a hot climate. Here is a link that might be useful: garden web thread on possibilities of cleaning cuttings

babka, sorry I meant to say appropriate question NOT INAPPROPRIATE. "And which year are you talking about--this year's growth or next years? " greenthumbz Surely we lose both, the leaves that were burned could not contribute to roots. Lack of roots leads to lack of plant next year, maybe we are talking about a total of one year spread over 2 years. "I should take some pics. some of my leaves have gotten sun scalded, but the plants are continuing to flourish despite not looking as good as they would without the scald." Greenthumbz Again, every lost leaf surely means lost roots. "Your statements about a healthy ecosystem needing 7 varieties of plants growing together for good health really intrigued me--I must go out and add more plants among my Hosta." Greenthumbz Now add this piece to the puzzle, apparently as the roots of different plants intermingled if one plant needed P it took it from a root of another specie that had P and vice versa with other minerals. Plus, they reasoned that 3 or more of the same specie planted together interacted to their benefit, dont know how close which may be specie specific. Notice every "natural" ecosystem has a wide variety of specie mixed unless we introduce an exotic plant that the ecosystem hasnt or cant adapt to such as kudzu in the south. Have you ever wondered if hosta will be the kudzu of the north shading out the wild flowers of a forest. All this is so damned interesting it just makes me crazy thinking about it, so much to know so little time. BIG BUTT people who tell me they are bored get on my last nerve.

This is some background info on what I am using for seed starting. It is a styrofoam tray with 40 holes in it; 40 plugs made from a soilless mix are put into the plugs (1 plug per hole). The styrofoam tray is essentially a big block, it's about 3" tall. The light fixture that holds the grow lights is 6" above the styrofoam tray w/the plugs in it. However since the tray is 3" tall the actual space between the seedlings and the lights will be 3". The Problem I am having is although there are 40 plugs only the middle rows of the plugs (not the ones on the outer edges) can be grown under the lights. If I try to grow seedlings in the plugs that are on the outer rows, they will get leggy due to not having enough light. There is only 6" between the lights and the tray that is nested in the grow light. With such a small gap, is it even possible to put foil there? Even if I can put the foil there, since it's such a small gap will it (the foil) adequately reflect the light onto the seedlings planted in the outer rows? The foil will be put at the back of the hood that holds the lights (as that will be where one of the outer rows will be) and foil onto the front of the hood (at the front of the grow light) (as this is where the other outer row will be. If the light reflected is adequate enough, can I grow seedlings in the outer rows or would they still become too leggy?

pdxman1, There is a worderfully simple test to determine this. Hold you palm over the top leaves. If the back of you hand is not getting too hot, you are OK. This is also assuming that your plant weren't just moved from a very low-light situation to the MH lamp. If so, place the light higher for a few days until the plants start to look like they are really digging the light. Then do the hand test. Zink