I left out Gnetophytes, mostly because so much of the evidence seems to be contradictory. Most genetic analysis I've seen suggest Gnetophytes aren't all that close to either other gymnosperms(conifers included) nor angiosperms, but branched off from other gymnosperms well before the split between angiosperms and gymnosperms, while most morphological and fossil evidence seems to suggest an intermediate position for Gnetophytes between angiosperms and other gymnosperms. I will say, I haven't read any genetic studies more current than about 3 or 4 years old though. Good point treelover2, both Sciadopitys and Ginkgo are quite old also. But from recent studies Ginkgo is no longer considered a conifer, but it's still a gymnosperm. The latest I've heard is that Gingko is more closely related to Cycads than to conifers. But nobody has addressed which living genus is the oldest conifer? I've also heard that Cedrus has been shown to be basal in the Pinaceae which is basal to all other conifer families(basal within Pinales). Is this the current thought still or is it something else?

Interesting. I had posted a while ago about my senior citizen Mom who has the Miele DW with the hidden controls. She has a great deal of difficulty pressing the buttons, since her dexterity and eye-hand coordination are no longer that great. She has to use the eraser end of a pencil to press the little buttons that are hidden in the door. Not only are the buttons small, but they're not really raised buttons, they're sorta just bumps under the label. I have the Miele DW with the control panel on the front. I only chose that style (at the time) cause it was several hundred dollars less than the Miele with the hidden controls. But when my Mom is at my house, she always comments on how much easier it is to press and see the buttons on my Miele. So for anyone reading this thread who have senior citizens at home, the difficulty of the hidden panel should be taken into account. No need to make a FIL, MIL or Grandmother/father feel helpless when they try to use the DW! I really feel bad about my Mom's DW, and have offered to buy her another one, but she refused cause she is frugal, and also cause her Miele DW is an excellent machine otherwise. Also, I am one of those people who don't like appliances to be hidden, and similarly, who wouldn't panel a fridge. I like appliances in my kitchen to look like they belong in my kitchen, not panelled for my library. Just MHO.

This is an interesting conversation. I, at age 34 currently, have never in my life used gas, and I am an avid cook on my crappy electric coil. I only say crappy cause the thing is FILTHY and disgusting and soon to be swapped out for a smooth top. However, regarding simmering, I have zero issues there, and people are always asking my trick to such great rice, which as you know requires barely a simmer sustained over a duration of time. However, I have a stroganoff recipe that calls for a long and slow simmer and when my friend with gas tried to make it, and said she couldn't because her gas cooktop doesn't allow for a slow simmer - it kept leaning into a full boil no matter how low she turned it. That leads me to believe it's all a matter of experience. There are probably better and worse performing stoves in every catagory - induction, gas, or electric - and that can certainly shape experience and preference also. So this is a case where nobody is right or wrong, and thank God we all have different preferences or else we wouldn't have choices.

Me! Me! I hate FDs! A few years ago before the reno, I figured I'd get a fancy new FD fridge because if everyone had them they must be the bees knees. Then we moved into a neighborhood house when the reno began. My excitement over using the full-depth GE FD 36" fridge there quickly turned to loathing. I'm not a particularly wide person, but I found myself opening both doors every time I needed to retrieve or replace a item. Besides the ridiculous mystery of not knowing in which side of the fridge my desired item was, I just couldn't stand at the fridge with only a 16" view inside. Maybe I have some undiagnosed visual-spatial issue because I actually need to see the contents of the fridge when I open it. If I was just grabbing the milk out of the door, I would just open the right-hand door, but anything else meant opening two doors. And closing two doors. Seems like twice the work to me. I had the requisite landing space across the aisle from it, but I still hated the thing. Knowing I'd want to bash the life out of a FD fridge with a baseball bat if I had one in my new kitchen, knowing I hated SxS units for the narrow storage, and knowing I didn't want to be on my hands and knees digging in the produce drawers of a top freezer model like I've done for many years, that left me with a bottom freezer configuration. I scored a deal on a 36" BI KA from ebay. I smile at least once a day while at the fridge when I can open one door and see everything at once. The door is not heavy or awkward. I love my single door! Interior cu ft wasn't an issue for me as we've always had an extra fridge in the garage for overflow. I buy milk three gallons at a time, buy large watermelons in the summer, have a large weekly CSA share through the growing season, host all family holidays and entertain a lot. Even a large full-depth fridge in the house wouldn't be enough all the time. I find the bottom freezer easy enough to use. It's really not much digging with the factory organizational system of slide out baskets and drawer dividers. Again, a small freezer of any fridge wouldn't be enough freezer space so I have an upright in the garage for our large, organic and free-range pig and cow portions. Like A2, I wish I had the kitchen space for large, separate fridge and freezer units. Even though I don't understand the appeal of SxS or FD fridges, I'm glad people have various options. For me, even if a full-width fridge door blocked the aisle completely, and mine almost does, I'd choose it in a heartbeat over a half-door.