ok so , walk down the drive & take a few more shots

even though it might be in disarray , we need more !!

ron

I might could do that plantkiller. Next Tuesday, weathers depending. No more disarray. Once I became the gardener, the place is show ready at all times. It helps to have a garden with its own voice.

Those are very serious lions...they are big pieces with nice detail. I like them.

What is not right about the implementation is the base. The lions are imposing, and they demand a base that is as strong and imposing as they are.

Rather than a psychedelic checkerboard with no vertical projection, why not build a rectangular lifted base that has large stone masonry all around the sides? Now those lions would be taking their place as kings, looking down from their perches. Visually, the lions would capture your attention first, and after you admire the detail and size, your eye would drift down to the base of solid rocks. That base should stand on its own as impressive. If the base is underwhelming, it takes away from the lions.

@westes Zone 9a California SF BayI am shocked. You are showing some excellent design skills and thinking there. I have to agree. The lion's base is not their strong point. They had to have a solid base because of their weight and the stone masons who redid the front walk and back patio did the lion's perches at the same time while there was also talk of a front gate with stone columns going on. A new stone mailbox house did get done.

Beautiful property. The wreaths seem to be choking those cats. Ditch them and keep the bows.

When I saw the wreaths around the lions' necks, it reminded me of Liberace. :)

Ha ha. Liberace and Jason. What a pair. Today is Jason's day.

Patience and Fortitude.

The lions aren’t being showcased properly for this entrance. Perhaps I am late to this question, but I would incorporate them into a formal garden or at front entry of home or main building. This view and overall property would benefit from a more natural and organic entry. See ideas below.

Or

I love that iron organic silhouette tree gate. Something like that suits this setting.

That tree gate is very nice. A gate for this entry was put on hold. In the discussion phase it would have gone behind the lions. The right column about where the red reflector is and the left actually behind the large conifer. The land itself and the curving road the drive is off of just are not conducive to a straight on front entry.

I like the lions... but the wreaths are too small for them and that throws the look off.

My problem with the lions is they don’t relate to anything in this “vignette”. So if a gate doesn’t work due to topographical issues, all the more reason for more natural looking approach. Like this one where two similar large boulders were etched. If the property has a name etch that into stone on left side “Green Vista” and on other side “ Established in 2001”. Or whatever the owner wants.

@Flo ManganA gate will work here and I expect a working electric gate will be installed at some point. I'll have to remember to show them the picture of your tree gate for inspiration. Can't have anything dull and ordinary and that one is fab. A stone entry gate may require some planticide, but that is easy enough for gardener to fix.

The big boulders at the entry thing is as common as dirt in these parts. We got all kind giant rocks. The etching in stone less so, but definitely as a focal point at entries for names and numbers.

The property's name is 'Grand View' and it is on a metal plate on the new stone mailbox just a couple of steps to the left of Mo, the lion on the left. The lions, Mo and MoMo. Short for money and more money.

An interesting thing I am picking up from you is that the lions, wild animals in nature, don't look right to you in this slightly off formal setting. They should be tamed and formally chained to the house. That is something to ponder. How did wild animals become unnatural?

I do hear what you are saying and in the big picture, this is the main formal entry to the estate.

Just trying to help you envision alternatives. If a gate is a longer term goal then two pillars of stone with statues on top to be where gate sides attach would be good short term project. Just design with long term in mind. A gate designed to separate in center and swing each way to open would technically be better. The tree concept could be adapted this end. Landscaping in curved, irregular pattern at each post would soften the look. Posts that had a somewhat wider base and tapered upward would have more grounded feeling. Mo and Momo need their own garden spot with interesting layout. Otherwise, can look kind of lesser than the property deserves IMO

This is really rough but just to give you vision. Two brass and black signs on each pillar. One “Grand”, the other “View”. The metal global orbs would be one way to elevate the property.

I love the lions and find many of the prior examples formal and not at all natural. The lions ride the line between organic, formal and AWESOME!!! I do like the suggestion of using a ground cover that could then cover broken stone base and just leave the exposed plinth. Unless the gate connects to a hedge or fence I fear it might just look random.

The thing I sense about this location is that it is a very rustic area. There is a lot of natural forest and natural rock on the ground. So that makes it hard to do a formal entry with a pillar. That kind of formal structured entrance looks good in Beverly Hills but looks unnatural in a rustic setting.

My idea of building rectangular blocks to elevate the lions and then using either a stonemason to line the sides with boulders, or building a boulder pile around the rectangular base, preserves the rustic nature of the site.

A lot depends on the neighborhood. What do other homes in this area have for their entrance?

The lions are beautiful! Just get them up off the ground and give them the presence they deserve; the scale is all wrong with the grandeur of the landscape!

If the lions stay, lynartist gives good strategy for displaying them.

This house is on the golf course in a larger blended neighborhood that is melded into the folds of a mountain covered by the eastern deciduous forest. As you go up the mountain, lot sizes average from two to four acres. Because - many reasons. So yes, the neighborhood is more heavily forested, more rustic, not urban or typical suburban at all and definitely not flat.

Stone posts with or without a gate and/or attaching retaining walls are very common for the neighborhood, but the mixed nature of the neighborhood and the extremes of the terrain prevent stone gate entries from being a must have, monkey see monkey do kind of thing. Plenty houses with nothing to potted petunias and tacky yard art at the front entry. I hate fall rag doll season.

I kind of like the scale of life size lions in a life size setting. Putting them on tall pedestals might be a little Siegfried and Roy.

I thought the discussion was about the placement at the Lions not whether or not they should remain. They definitely have to remain! I like the juxtaposition with the natural setting. It's unexpected without being too imposing.

Flo this might interest you. This is a recent interpretation I did of the ubiquitous big rocks for the front entry. It was for the creation of a circular drive at a rental unit. The ditch is brand new too.

Not to worry Vaporvac. The lions stay. Sit Mo.

I really do like the lions as is there too. It's different and nice. Juts the wreaths...

Considering the property.... manes of evergreen to fit in lux rather than round wreaths...

Very nice front scape Christopher. Thanks for sharing. This is beautiful country. Generally, where is this located?

This is Waynesville, NC, 45 minutes west of Asheville.

The Art Institute of Chicago wreaths their lions every year.

Oh I love Ashville!! Such a beautiful area.

;)! Even S&R’s lion knows he would rather be on the pedestal than on the ground!

I love your lions and the placement and the wreaths! Their awesome majestic looking!

Of course if you feel the lions being not appropriate to the setting I suppose you could switch them out to something that looks a bit more indigenous to your beautiful Mountain View!

The key role of formal gardens immediately in front of large country houses is to form a transition area between the formality of the house and the informality of the rural setting - rather than being out of place in the country formal gardens are if anything in their native environment there.

As mentioned the lions are startling in the original photo because nothing else visible in that view is of the same character. Hence the suggestion to add a third one, some distance away - at least they are not an identical pair.

The point I was trying to make is stated very well by Embothrium above. Thanks Embothrium!

I get it. You both think the lions by definition belong in a formal garden. There is a strong historical association between the two. That association could make for an interesting plant nerdy history lesson. They would look stunning in a formal garden that is for sure. And I certainly can't have a pair of them in an informal setting because two is too formal.

I have messed with the rules. I let the lions go wild.

I do have a good grasp of the rules.

I can certainly picture the formal estate garden in a larger rural setting. That could be a posh job. That just isn't something you are likely to see in these parts because mountains. The land is rarely conducive to a full formal garden that would be properly scaled and balanced with the house. Think bigly 3 story houses stuck to the side of a mountain.

So I blend and improvise. I stick formal in places it might not be allowed to help create the illusion of level. It comforts the clients and not many know the rules.

@lynartistI know where that front entry is. I think I have a picture of it.

LOL!! I wouldn't sweat it, Christopher. One of the best things about landscape design is that there are very (as in VERY!) few rules, especially as it deals with formal and informal design concepts and the conditions under which they are applied, so feel free to ad lib as you - or your clients - see fit :-))

The Biltmore Estate is not far from you with similar topography. The history and landscape gardeners there created amazing gardens and beautiful formal and natural gardens and spaces. If you haven’t visited there, well worth going and exploring these grounds and the history.

Flo I have been to the Biltmore many times. I bet I have a picture of their lions.

Uh oh. I found this picture online of the Biltmore Lion and they are colossally big into Christmas decoratin'. Not to worry. They are a matching set. It's a big house. I think my lions are better looking.

I like your lions too. Don’t you love the Biltmore?!

The Biltmore house and grounds are amazing.

If anything goes - if everyone sees everything completely differently, and this supposed fact doesn't matter - then how is it even possible to have such disciplines as architectural design or landscape design being practiced? Where certain techniques are used to produce visual effects that will give much shared impressions?

And I didn't say the lions were too formal, in fact I pointed out that they weren't in fact an identical pair.

Lord a mercy Embothrium. I think for everyone who has seen this picture, the commonalities of perception are vast and pretty much a given. It is pretty much a fact that no two people are going to have the exact shared impression of any seen object or setting anyway no matter the intent.

This doesn't come close to anything goes. I'm the gardener. Rest assured there is a great deal of discipline about the place. You have seen pictures from my personal garden?

If landscape (or even architectural) design was a formulaic or rule-driven process, then anyone could do it.....once they learned the 'rules'. But it is not. Design is an art, not a science, and is ruled only by visual perception. If you examine the basic principles - guidelines only, not rules - they are all based on visual perception: balance, scale, repetition, unity, proportion, flow or sequencing, etc. It is how these are interpreted and applied by the designer with respect to the specific site that determines the success of the final design. Really, the only rules that apply to landscaping are horticultural.....selecting the plants appropriate to the climate, growing conditions and ultimate size/scale. And because these are not static or permanent entities to the design, you can even fudge the "rules" with them as well.

The Biltmore lion looks like it just ate a lemon.

“...rather than being out of place in the country formal gardens are if anything in their native environment there.”

Embothrium, that an interesting concept. Is it considered a bedrock principle of landscape design?

The Biltmore lion has a medieval quality to him; he seems at home in front of the Château style of the building ( although not of the same period obviously) but European non the less. I don’t think he would translate so well if he was isolated from the building itself into the landscape. He is part of the building decor so to speak. Not part of that landscaping.

maackia , you have it ... I thought he needed a meal

ron

The Biltmore lions ribs are showing in other pictures. They are ready to eat something.

Personally, I like the drive with the evergreens in the OP (original picture). Yet the sculptures seemed to have grabbed the lion's share of attention. I say, put them on a grand (pretentious) stairway, where they belong. It is fretful to see their large paws limited to those tiny pediments. Sorry to be so conventional. These lions are African and have connotations of colonial imperialism, not a popular political stance these days. Keep the wreathes, ban the cats. Or at least allow them to look outward rather than with irritation at each other.