Read it and weep Donnie.

dandyfopp
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lily316

Not to change the topic but it was such fun watching our president speak in what he calls English only to be bested by Macron today who speaks it as a second language. So much fun. I hope the whole world was watching our illiterate snarly looking prez taken down by a young vibrant thin man speaking better in his second language. Carry on.

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Carro

Obama is a polyglot?

America just loves and relates to that kind of elitist snobbery.

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Delilah66

President Obama speaks a language unknown to trumpf.

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dandyfopp

Fluent English.

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zmith

Carro said, " America just loves and relates to that kind of elitist snobbery."


It's elitist snobbery, because Dubya and Trump, the most recent GOP presidents, are lousy public speakers? Ok then.

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Carro

President Trump didn't ask anyone to interfere with anything.

However, democrats did pay Russians, A British spy, and Ukrainians to manufacture fake evidence in order to interfere with an election.

A CIA spy did solicit help from House democrats to interfere with an election.

Schiff did solicit foreigners for "kompromat" on President Trump including alleged nude pictures (which did not exist).

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Kathy

Trump says everything at least twice when he speaks. Trump repeats everything twice. Sometimes Trump repeats things twice and even more.


That was easy!!

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Carro

Kathy

Trump says everything at least twice when he speaks. Trump repeats everything twice. Sometimes Trump repeats things twice and even more.

You can see you just did the same thing, right?


Right?

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chipotle

Delusion and deflection.

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dandyfopp

To be expected.


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lily316

Desperation when you ain't got anything.

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cattyles

But hey! How about that report?!

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leona_2008

Starting to wonder if there is a correlation between lying and loss of brain function. Sure would explain trump, at least.

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cattyles

It’s bad when one of the charges is Obstruction of Justice but your efforts to obstruct weren’t effective enough to keep from being impeached.

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cattyles

The report is excellent. Good job Intelligence Committee and thank you to Chairman Schiff.

I’m proud of the Dems for dealing in facts. Normal Repubs (not trumplicans) are speaking out and condemning the dumbing down and gaslighting by the obviously compromised Congressional Repubs.

Let’s stop dignifying the disruptive apologists with responses and spread facts. We have nothing to defend, stop being tricked into playing defense. Move the ball forward.



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dandyfopp

Read and weep Donnie part 2.


Appeals court rules Deutsche Bank must turn over Trump financial records to House

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/472774-appeals-court-rules-deutsche-bank-must-turn-over-trump-financial

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Carro

Barr and Rosenstein looked at what Mueller collected. Both concluded that Trump did not meet the standard of obstruction.
Why? Because there was no other underlying crime. Also because they could not prove intent which is part of the obstruction statute.

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cattyles

This thread is about the Impeachment Inquiry Report. The charge is Obstructing the House of Representatives inquiry. Do you have a comment on that, carro?

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chipotle

This might do it --

You know Rachel is devouring it as we speak. Should be a good show tonight!

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Carro

Mueller punted the obstruction charge to the DOJ.

Mueller came to no conclusion on obstruction, but obstruction has an intent clause written into it.

Barr and Rosenstein both declared that trump did not meet the requirements for obstruction.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

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dandyfopp

LOL

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chipotle

Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue.

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barncatz

I appreciated the whole framing of the obstruction section. It's really something when they say that even Richard Nixon recognized Congressional authority over him. Like saying " Even Ted Bundy stood up when the Judge entered the courtroom."

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cattyles

Carro, this thread is not about obstruction during the mueller investigation. This thread is about trump’s obstruction in his impeachment inquiry. Now. Real time. No one is talking about Mueller, Rosenstein or Barr. Facts don’t care about your deflection or lack of comprehension.

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cattyles

You just keep holding onto that. And keep deflecting. You do you, gurl!

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Carro

There has been NOTHING other than Schiff's assertion that Trump had ANY concerns about 2020. Others have said they considered that possibility but at some point you need to tie that assessment to FACTS and not one fact in relation to that assertion has been presented. If 10 people think a guy is going to rob a bank that doesn't make him a robber and doesn't mean that's his intent.

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Carro

The idea that corruption in Ukraine disappeared with the election of Zelensky simply isn't true. Even Zelensky, in his interview with Time, noted that there was a lot of work to do along those lines.

So, Trump was correct and responsible in his concern about corruption, which he did ask about.

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cattyles

I like the acknowledgement of Cummings in the report. The whole thing is good work. I wondered how they would put it all together.

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Carro

Nothing in the phone call proves anything about what Trump intended to do with any information he might have received. And as James Comey said regarding a certain illegal server in a certain basement: “ you and I both know intent is very difficult to prove.”


If it was good enough for Hillary...

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dandyfopp

All butt dials surely.


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Joaniepoanie

Trump being worried about corruption in Ukraine is downright laughable. Corruption is the only world Donnie knows. If anything, Donnie would be cheering on Ukraine corruption, not fighting it.

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Joaniepoanie

Gee, what business could Rudy, a private citizen, have with OMB?

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barncatz

Actually, Carro, a jury is also allowed to draw inferences from facts, based on their life experience and common sense.

Like, I can figure out that dandy does not believe those calls were butt dials even though the facts show dandy stated that, because I own a phone, I have made both intentional and unintentional calls and I also have listened to and heard about Rudy G.


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margaritadina

''

cattyles

This
thread is about the Impeachment Inquiry Report. The charge is
Obstructing the House of Representatives inquiry. Do you have a comment
on that, carro?

''

I do. The report is a full load of crap.

The witness guy (what's his name? the ambassador in the EU) clearly stated that Trump wanted nothing in exchange from Ukraine.

Besides, asking Ukraine for favors is an American tradition started by Biden. Bidens will be investigated and brought to justice.

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Carro

Good to know all Dems have is inferences. That's where you set the bar to remove a President.

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Carro

Impeachment is not a legal process. It’s a political maneuver, but you still need facts and evidence.

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Carro

@LizRNC

FollowFollow @LizRNC

More

Words missing from Adam Schiff's 300 page impeachment in search of a crime report:
"I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo."
And with 611 mentions of Amb. Sondland, NOT ONCE do Dems mention that not a single person on the planet told him there was a quid pro quo regarding aid

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soupgirl53

Mulvaney told us it was a quid pro quo on national television.

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Carro

soupgirl53

Mulvaney told us it was a quid pro quo on national television.

Case solved!

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

How funny! Someone complaining about inferences when all the false equivalencies between this president and his chosen enemies have been little more than innuendo.

And begging pardon, but there is a mountain of evidence proving our president has been associating with crooks and liars for most of his "career", and the pile just keeps growing.

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Carro

Oh, association evidence. Well then.

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zmith

soupgirl53

Mulvaney told us it was a quid pro quo on national television.

@Carro

Case solved!

-----

And it's IN the report!

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elvis

I hope the whole world was watching our illiterate snarly looking prez taken down by a young vibrant thin man speaking better in his second language. Carry on.

Why would you hope for that lily?

__________________

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numbersjunkie

Carro, you are wrong about why Barr and Rosenstein said there was no obstruction of Justice in the Mueller report. And I'm sure you know there does not need to be an underlying crime to be found guilty of obstruction, because that's a fake Republican talking point that has been clarified time and time again. At least be honest about it - Barr and Rosenstein are Trump cronies and that's why they "found" no obstruction. And face it, the arguments Barr's Justice Department have put forth in court filings to support the defiance of sopeneas by those around him have been laughed at by everyone - including the judge.

Just because Fox news says something doesn't make it true. But it sure is funny to see how many gullible people fall for their BS.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Kathy

Trump says everything at least twice when he speaks. Trump repeats everything twice. Sometimes Trump repeats things twice and even more.

Carro

You can see you just did the same thing, right?

--------------------

I can't let this one go.

Kathy--your parody of Trump is hilarious.

Carro--once again, you shot first without bothering to aim. Totally missed the parody, didn't you! Ha!

Kate

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cattyles

This thread is not about the Mueller investigation.

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numbersjunkie

Carro, what exactly are claiming I have no basis for? And I found your comment directed at me personally to be offensive.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

"Just because CNN says it doesn't make it so."

~

Works the other way also, Carro.

Just because CNN says it doesn't make it NOT so either."

Kate

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Kathy

Dublinbay, I was listening to Trump answering questions from reporters today and it was so annoying to hear him repeat and repeat. Then to top it off his projection about Schiff being a maniac was the icing on the cake. It was shameful.

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cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

"The witness guy (what's his name? the ambassador in the EU)..."

Why would anyone listen to someone who either doesn't care enough to pay attention to the names of the witnesses or thinks it is cute to act as though she doesn't know it?

If I am going to take someone's comments seriously, I don't think obvious ignorance of facts (as in names) or deliberate deflections and name-calling helps.

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leona_2008

Remember what it was like to have a president who didn't go to international meetings and gripe and complain and lie on the world stage? You know, presidents who appreciated decorum and wanted to represent the US in the best light?

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margaritadina

''

Carro

@LizRNC

FollowFollow @LizRNC

More

Words missing from Adam Schiff's 300 page impeachment in search of a crime report:
"I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo."
And
with 611 mentions of Amb. Sondland, NOT ONCE do Dems mention that not a
single person on the planet told him there was a quid pro quo regarding
aid''

That's right. Trump said ''I want nothing in return I want Ukraine to do the right thing". Pencil Neck tried to pressure Sondland into saying that Trump wanted something in return from Ukraine, Sondlan repeated that Trump wanted NOTHING. Case closed.

Except for the Bidens case, indeed. Kerry and Nancy have some things going in Ukraine, too, that's why Nancy fights tooth and nail - her money is under a threat.

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Kathy

There may be evidence Sondland lied about that call. There is a lot more evidence to the contrary.

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numbersjunkie

Carro, Are you calling me biased and accusing me of holding people in contempt because I disagree with them? What a hoot. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

My comment about Barr and Rosenstein was to point out that Obstruction of Justice does not require an underlying crime That is a fact. No emotions involved. And you are wrong if you believe otherwise.

You are also wrong in your assertion that if they turned on Trump "every Leftist Trump hater" would think them brilliant. Sounds like you hold us "Leftists" in contempt though.

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Carro

Zero proof of your allegations about Barr and Rosenstein.

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cattyles

The case is most definitely not closed. It is just beginning. Repeating misinformation is insulting, to me.


Anyone read the whole report yet? It’s good reading.

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numbersjunkie

Zero proof that in my opinion they are Trump cronies? Or zero proof that they lied when they said the reason was no underlying crime? They both know the law.

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Carro

You don't know the law.

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dandyfopp

I am a citizen so I read it Catt. Schiff is a master.


Happy Holidays ya'll. :-)


https://twitter.com/Alex_Verbeek/status/1201989589809934336

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socks(10a)

He says things twice or more because he doesn't really know what to say, has no true facts nor the intellect to comprehend anything more complicated that a tweet. He also says:

I don't want to answer that now

We'll see

You'll see

Were looking at that

Gobbledygook talk because he is mentally lame.


Kathy, nice job mocking trump. His speeches deserve mocking. Yeah, good job making fun of his repeating. And repeating. And repeating.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Mueller punted the obstruction charge to the DOJ.

No, Mueller laid out a strong case and road map for Congress to pursue via the impeachment process.

Mueller came to no conclusion on obstruction, but obstruction has an intent clause written into it.

No, Mueller said it in a convoluted fashion, but he did say trump committed obstruction....he said he could *not* exonerate trump on obstruction:

-----------

NADLER: Director Mueller, the president has repeatedly claimed your report found there was no obstruction and completely and totally exonerated him. That is not what your report said, is it?

MUELLER: Correct, not what the report said.

NADLER: You wrote, “If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are not able to reach that judgment.” Does that say there was no obstruction?

MUELLER: No.

------------

Barr and Rosenstein both declared that trump did not meet the requirements for obstruction.

Barr also covered for the president by lying about what the Mueller report said and believes a sitting president can't be indicted or even investigated, so not what you'd call objective.


Facts don't care about your feelings.

On this one, we agree.

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Annie Deighnaugh

For cattyles to tie this back into the current report, trump's behavior now re ukraine in terms of seeking foreign assistance for his campaign including a made up scandal against a political rival is exactly what he was doing with russia in 2016 and hillary's emails.

It is not coincidental that the ukraine strong arming by trump started the day after Mueller testified.

The obstruction of justice evident in the mueller report is even more evident in this impeachment inquiry report where trump has wholesale held up witnesses and documents, refusing to recognize legal and legitimate subpoenas from congress.

So not only is his illegal and impeachable activity apparent, but he has now created a pattern of behavior.

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numbersjunkie

When you got nothing else, resort to name calling!

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Annie Deighnaugh

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."

-- Socrates

ETA: the numbersjunkie post and mine refer to an ugly picture of Nadler with reference to his weight which has since been disappeared...just so these two comments aren't hanging out there like a sore thumb.

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Delilah66

Carro:

“Mueller punted the obstruction charge to the DOJ.

Mueller came to no conclusion on obstruction, but obstruction has an intent clause written into it.

Barr and Rosenstein both declared that trump did not meet the requirements for obstruction.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

There has been NOTHING other than Schiff's assertion that Trump had ANY concerns about 2020. Others have said they considered that possibility but at some point you need to tie that assessment to FACTS and not one fact in relation to that assertion has been presented. If 10 people think a guy is going to rob a bank that doesn't make him a robber and doesn't mean that's his intent.

The idea that corruption in Ukraine disappeared with the election of Zelensky simply isn't true. Even Zelensky, in his interview with Time, noted that there was a lot of work to do along those lines.

So, Trump was correct and responsible in his concern about corruption, which he did ask about.”

It’s like I’m watching Law and Order but I get the sound track of The Beverly Hillbillies.


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Delilah66

“ Impeachment is not a legal process. It’s a political maneuver, but you still need facts and evidence.”

You’ve screeched that song often enough. It’s a Constitutional process.

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Delilah66

cattyles, I did read it and agree with dandy.

I'm always in awe when I read our Constitution, marveling at the eloquence of the 18th century and the acumen of the authors. Now we have another document, penned more than 200 years later that is just as eloquent, by authors with equal acumen.

"the act of a president unbound, not one chastened by experience...America remains the beacon of democracy and opportunity for freedom-loving people around the world. From their homes and their jail cells, from their public squares and their refugee camps, from their waking hours until their last breath, individuals fighting human rights abuses, journalists uncovering and exposing corruption, persecuted minorities struggling to survive and preserve their faith, and countless others around the globe just hoping for a better life look to America. What we do will determine what they see, and whether America remains a nation committed to the rule of law....”

Then there are the bad actors whose words will be remembered, not for their eloquence, but for their dismissive rudeness: "get over it".


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elvis

I'm always in awe when I read our Constitution, marveling at the eloquence of the 18th century and the acumen of the authors.

Great, then you support the Electoral College.

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Delilah66

I support that states get to decide how to cast their electoral votes, but your statement has nothing to do with my comment. Pointless forest.

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lily316

The founding fathers with all their brilliance never would have foreseen a man like trump would ever lead this country. These dignified men would roll over in their graves if they saw his performance on the world's stage today blathering like a man in a mental institution.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I don't agree, lily. I think they were very familiar with egotistical idiots with mental disorders in power -- like king george -- against whom they wrote a document to protect the nation.

I don't think they foresaw the power of mega-corporations and mega-industries with so much $$$ to successfully lobby the government as to pervert its policies toward their own purposes and away from what's best for the citizens and the national interest.

They couldn't foresee the use and power of social media by bad actors to attack our country, without firing a single shot, dividing it against itself politically and culturally, pulling half of the nation away from facts and devotion to the rule of law in favor of a cult-like devotion to a con man.

I don't think they foresaw an entire party selling its soul just for the sake of reëlection, ceding our nation's sovereignty to our enemies in the process.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Last night rachel put up "easy read" version of the report...where you just read the headers and she finds you can get the whole thing in a nutshell even if you won't read the 300 page report or the 22 page summary.



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queenmargo

The founding fathers with all their brilliance never would have foreseen a man like trump would ever lead this country. These dignified men would roll over in their graves if they saw his performance on the world's stage today blathering like a man in a mental institution.

See, Trump IS a miracle;)

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petalique

With regard to Rudy Giuliani‘s many calls to the OMB; even for someone with his head up his fanny, butt calls only redial or call back (by butt bumping) an already entered phone number. The gluteus maximus doesn’t touch type.

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Delilah66

The founding fathers never foresaw enough idiots would drink the kool-aid. It is a tragic phenomenon.

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elvis

These dignified men would roll over in their graves if they saw his performance on the world's stage today blathering like a man in a mental institution.

These dignified men would roll over in their graves if they saw the libs' performances on the world stage today, blathering like crazy people.

Fixed it for you. Thanks for the leg up, lily!

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lily316

IF perchance the founding fathers returned today, make no mistake they would be on the side of those who want this ego maniac with limited intellectual abilities, a man who violated at least 10 reasons for his impeachment gone. We would be the heroes to these founders without a doubt.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

The founding fathers with all their brilliance never would have foreseen
a man like trump would ever lead this country. These dignified men
would roll over in their graves if they saw his performance on the
world's stage today blathering like a man in a mental institution.


They'd probably wonder if King George had been reincarnated.

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Delilah66

From Kate’s thread:

“Ultimately the reason the Constitution provided for impeachment was to anticipate a situation like the one that is before you today,” Harvard Law School professor Noah Feldman testified. “If we cannot impeach a president who uses his power for personal advantage, we no longer live in a democracy, we live in a monarchy or a dictatorship.”


https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5834022/scholars-testify-that-trumps-conduct-is-grounds-for-impeachment#n=3

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jerzeegirl(9b)

No Elvis, lily had it right the first time.

These dignified men would roll over in their graves if they saw his performance on the world's stage today blathering like a man in a mental institution.

It's unfortunate that you feel it necessary to defend this mad wannabe-King but that is your choice.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

Lol at the thought that the founding fathers were all "dignified men". Clearly some here have read NO history. Plenty of egos and nuts back then as well...

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elvis

These dignified men would roll over in their graves if they saw the libs' performances on the world stage today, blathering like crazy people.

jerzeegirl(9b)

No Elvis, lily had it right the first time.

Your opinion, and I hope you are grateful to have the freedom to express it.

It's unfortunate that you feel it necessary to defend this mad wannabe-King but that is your choice.

Again, you opinion. Enjoy.


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lily316

Desperation, it ain't pretty.

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THOR, Son of ODIN(2)

3 million vote differential.

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Linda

Impeachment..odd, isn't it? Actually the very thought that a person can de-evolve to that extent...it's really mind-blowing how a mind can go backward and be more like a pre-Neanderthal of dim and distant ages. Not to be insulting of Neanderthals, mind you...some scientists think they were okay and we still have some DNA from them. My Dad used silly songs and verses, which amused him, but he was still quite intelligent. More than I can say of the Donnie-boy!

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